The ABANDONED STI Returns to the DYNO (Garrett G25 .72 VS .92 Housing Comparison)
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Our 2009 Subaru Impreza WRX STI heads back to the dyno with the larger Garrett G25 660 .92 exhaust housing as we see the difference it makes against the .72 exhaust housing. We also install a Cobb Tuning front mount intercooler to reduce intake temps.
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brake ducting for the fogs
+1
APR or Chargespeed does make some as far as I know
I was just about to write the same suggestion.
How? The new intercooler piping is right behind it.
Or stick some overkill LED lights in there
You guys are really giving a good demonstration of why you should talk to a tuner BEFORE you start choosing parts. Two tuning sessions and you’re still throwing more parts at it.
Agreed. A Subie build requires a parts combo that works together. Tuners can usually recommend “combos” that are tried and true.
Yep, this is great street/response setup but since they're chasing Internet numbers it's way too small.
Bigger turbo and equal length header so you can take advantage of that motor and how high it can rev
If they want more than 400whp, in a safe way, I'd close deck it too - with inserts.
yes, unfortunatly the rumble is sacrificed for power D:
@@phiillzzz807 Which, unfortunately sounds gay...
@@harrisonmccollum which, again, sounds like a shitbox honda with a fartcan muffler... such a shame
Wish you hadn't changed the intercooler (at least for this dyno session). I was specifically looking for a comparison of the G25-660 .72 vs .92 AR which this is not since other variables changed.
same
OnPoint Sasha said it to me perfectly: an unequal length header is the sound of inefficiency.
Guys about the overheating issue, the bigger intercooler may helps a little bit, but the best solution for subarus for long track sessions will be a hood with heat extractors especially in the radiator fans area.
the answer was = fuel starvation = lean out = HOT ENGINE ! something was wrong = a full tank is best !
Have you guys even driven the car with .72 housing? I have the exact same setup on my car and on the street is amazing making 7psi at 3100rpm and 14.5psi by 3900rpm. I hope you guys dont lose too much low end power with the .92. I just hate when people are so hung up on peak numbers and lose on the low-mid range power.
do you also have a 2.1 or just the standard EJ20?
@@paul4733 the 2.1L
7psi at 3100rpm and 14.5psi by 3900 sounds awesome especially out of 2.1L. When do you start making boost? That .72 sounds alot more fun on the street for that engine size!
isnt this supposed to be a nice daily driver. boost at 4500 doesn't make for a great daily so putting on a GT35 sized turbo and pushing the boost rpm out to 5000-5500 is only going to make it worse as a daily.
You could always just...you know, downshift?
You don't need max power/boost for daily driving around in the low rpm range 🤦♂️
My evo is only a 2 liter and makes 505whp and hits 28lbs at around 4250rpm. I'm running a TPC GT spec (gtx3582r). This car needs a bigger turbo.
I happen to prefer a freaky, overly aggressive, peaky powerband having daily. To each their own..
I have a GTX3076 on my STI, on a fairly conservative tune it made 410 wheel (20psi) on pump and 500 wheel (24 psi) on E85. Comes on at 4k but makes peak power at 7300. Could be a good option for them, its a not too large where the lag is a noticeable issue but its for sure big enough to make power all through the rev range.
As a fellow Subaru member I would recommend being conservative and not doing the turbo. It wont make for a great daily. However as a viewer of your channel I want to see a Bigger Turbo.
MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!
Wow. I'm made that power on stock s2k with a supercharger 14psi . And it was fun to drive. I was expecting more torque from this WRX.
This is a way better video than the squeaky SUV series. Thanks for the upload.
KillerB Holy Header with Swaintech coating. Absolutely the best header for subarus, no exception.
Paul Nolan maperformance just as good
I've seen huge power from tomei headers. Dunno how they compare but the tomei ones are very good for power.
APR makes air ducts for the 08-10 STI that exchange the fog lights for cooling purposes.
GDT or IAG cylinder 4 combustion chamber cooling fix. helps lower the temps on cyl 4 by increasing coolant flow. Did it on my STI build, really helps keeps temps down, and doesn't overload the cooling system.
Subies and hot ones mash up?! Digging the shirt!
If only
Why not a borgwarner efr ??? Put in a exhaust back pressure sensor and measure your progress ??? Fun stuff love watching as always 👍
Borgworner's are big and bulky, as they have all the waste gate, boost control and blow off valve all incorporated - which is an advantage, but a disadvantage at the same time.
Don't forget that all these YT channels use Garrett turbos cos it seems to be the "it" thing. I personally think they're an OK turbo, as they're small, but hefty on price.
Myself, I'd probably go for a Steve Murch Holset - NZ guy who ports turbos.
@@upgradeNEVER Murch turbos are not in the same league as the new garret and efr
What’s the change in IAT temperatures?
Old intercooler:
New intercooler:
25 degrees increase per pull. But I didn’t hear the baseline number.
Solid numbers, though.
He said the run last time there was a 25 degree increase but on the new intercooler on the preliminary tune there was no increase in charge air temperatures.
Should definitely be producing higher numbers. Sasha is making similar power with the smaller G25-550 on his SR20 and spooling a lot sooner.
Yaeh i dont get it why the numbers on this is so crappy...
I have installed a g25-660 on my new ej257 and im aiming for atleast 500 awhp in e85.
@@snajjpern what other mods ? I wanna start building up mine
@@snajjpern to be fair e85 over pump can pick up 50-75whp easily on a BT setup.
Here's another SR20 on E85 with the smaller g25-550. Does 485-500 whp. E85 will make about 75hp more over pump gas. I think this EJ20 is having fueling issues. ua-cam.com/video/1s-zMy2x_n0/v-deo.html
If back pressure is opening valves then the exhaust valve springs are week. It’s not the turbos fault. Clearly it seems to be limited to an exact pressure. That’s turbo flows 58 lbs a min. That’s as much as efr7163. They easily make 500 plus. The fk8 civic type r using a g25-660 which has a.72 AR with same turbine wheel doesn’t have this issue on a stock engine. This is a built motor. It’s more likely Intake valve float not exhaust. Unless your exhaust springs are so week the pressure doesn’t stay in the exhaust and then you’ll get a rapid increase in boost pressure with an immediate drop in powered at that point. Looking at the graph power drop off is rather abrupt. Turbo fall off doesn’t look like that valve float does. Going to bigger turbo isn’t gong to fix valve springs.
Am I the only person who misses moose's Saturday videos
You very may well be as the videos barely got 5K views so we couldnt continue with them. However, we do have a few vids coming out with his E36 M3
You are definitely not the only one, i liked them aswell.
All the work he did in time lapse was what I wanted to see in detail.
Turbo Yoda would say not to worry about the unequal length headers, but definitely sort out the manky radiator. Oh, and maybe a bigger turbo ;)
manky rad?? u must be thinking Black AC Condenser .. the cooling system is A1 👍👍👍
@steelmesh will let you take that up with Turbo Yoda
@steelmesh 👍
the lag may be more obvious down low, but the enlargement of the turbo will ultimately give you more powerband if you can really rev it out to 9k. the operating range would be moved up. id say turbo and headers.
Header and turbo. That motor is a gem...you gotta go all the way.
Replace the fog light holes with ducting for the brakes?
*hint hint*
that is such a MONSTER intercooler! very impressed with that kit. i'm sure it's well worth the money
Killer b Equal length headers are the best! Also upgraded fuel pump, fuel rails, and bigger injectors to help with that IDC. Maybe a Grimmspeed or Cobb Electronic boost control solenoid.
Daamn Pete was talkin' fast! I've never seen him so excited in any other video.
If this motor was built to hit 8,5k to 9k, you guy's should make everything needed to hit that target. Looking forward to the next video. 🤘😬
Loving the Last Dab shirt! Would you take the Hot Ones challenge?
Brake cooling ducts for the fog light holes
Drive once as-is and decide on header after. It’s a good mod to do, but it’d also be good to see progression. Subaru does a great job at making most of their newer turbo cars underwhelming (they’re very smooth!)
You guys need to replace that radiator. Cooler is everything on big turbo Sti.
Nice "Hot ones" t shirt DP! Bigger turbo is a must boys. We wanna see that baby make 500whp+!!!!
Equal length headers with a Garret GTX3582RS. I'd guess close to 450whp on pump gas.
what i did for fog light holes in the past was open the light take the lens , paint it black and use contact adhesive to stick it to the bumper and cover the hole
it take so much stuff to make 400 with a subaru :o
They have such a tiny turbo so it seems like so.
He said it PERFECTLY, "underwelming"
@@Mortalomena yes turbo is tiny but you are not familiar with g25 line up? they are even using 660 version, those things are capable up to 600 hp (name 660 refers to max hp output, of course there are variables). But i have to agree that this subaru is still just lightly modded
@@ERK77VI Keep in mind that's the crank number not the wheel number, crank hp at 660 would be about 530 wheel on a Subaru, so they are still falling short of the maximum potential, but not as much as it seems at face value.
@Sergio Aguirre k20 have valve lift and variable timing... This ej207 only got variable timing not lift...
A set of better cam should help help
equal length headers and maybe a 3.5 in DP and exhaust.
Maybe throw in a exhaust backpressure sensor so you have some data for comparisson.
Equal length headers, agree. I think the turbo you have on there should be sufficient. Those newer G series turbos start doing their "magic" at very high boost pressures and flow. To take advantage of that I think you need different cams, cam springs, and some light head work. I wouldn't bother with bigger valves, they weigh more than the stock ones any may encourage valve float at high RPM's. The stock cams are clearly outside of their power band when you are revving over 7.5K. If you can rev the engine up to 8.5K+ you should do that. Keep that spool zone in the 4.5K zone. I think A bigger turbo I think will just make things worse. I have driven many STI's, that have been heavily modified. They are basically on/off switches when you go with bigger turbos. It is a very frustrating driving experience especially if you cant rev very high. If you don't want to run E85 all the time a good option would be to install a water meth injection kit. Make sure you do a direct port manifold (one nozzle per runner) meth injection ONLY, any other way is to inconsistent especially if your port to port air velocities are not equal. If you are still unsatisfied with boost response a trick I have used in other builds I've done is to use a 75-100 shot of NOS until the turbos have a chance to fully spool. I single bottle used this way can last a while since it is only used to help spool.
That drop in power at top is most likely from the cam profile, more specifically the cams duration. More cam duration shifts the torque curve higher in the rpm band. A naturally aspirated engines power curve should amplified under boost.
Subaru rumble- the sound of inefficiency.
Sam Spezza the sound of significantly less weight, and a faster spooling turbo
@@thomasellis7625 by "significantly less weight" do you mean lower mounted? Because the Honda K20A2 weighs 30lbs less than an ej20, and shits all over it in power and torque numbers at significantly lower boost levels.
@@thomasellis7625 a good set of equal length header weight similar to aftermarket unequal header...
My syms racing header weight almost nothing to stock unequal length header
should do a killer b holy header and an efr7163. 500whp and near stock response
Is the turbo back exhaust system chocking it out? It's frustrating, but when you're the first people building the setup there is a big learning curve.
Go with the ELH, tune again then check out some lap times before spending more money. I think at this point driver skill and "no fear" additude will have a bigger impact on lap times than HP with a larger turbo. Remember usabe torque wins races.
And twinscroll also helps alot along with ELH
What a nice and humble guy Mike is!
What sort of headwork was done on the car? It almost reads like a head flow issue. A larger turbo may still be a good answer, but perhaps the exhaust side just isn't flowing enough air?
2.1 stroker carrying power to almost 9k?
Good luck with that. Should have stayed with a 2L or a 2.34L. You're also going to need larger cams and a GTX3076R. The g25 has such a tiny turbine wheel.
Had a great result with my MR2 g25 660 .92, cams, meth, 2.0 engine, 570 fly wheel. 1.9bar of boost.
Hi Shanes ✌️ finally someone who has such a thing on a 3SGTE. I‘m not sure if 550 or 660 for my GT4... when do you have full boost?
Thanks
@@DrSiech would be around 4350 4400 for 1.9
I had a progressive boost set up. 4200 was 1.6 bar
shanes Matson thank you so much for your answer! 🤩
Based on this I‘m going for the 550 with .72. I have a lot of mountains and tight corners, and for this is my build.
3:45 This isn't called rebar. Rebar is the steel lattice structure that's used to reinforce concrete. This is either a box section structure, or something more specific around its usage, like a cross-mount.
i have a Garrett GT28/60rs turbo for my ej207 subaru tmi std exhaust manifold 3inch system 565 cc injectors it will run up to 8,200 rpm but starts at 1,800 rpm and pushes all the way some times out accelerated off the line then good bye ! thank you.
I know this is quite old video but adding gussets to the crash bar would theoretically make it stronger and improve airflow to the heat exchangers.
Start with equal length headers!
Love the build!
Turbo the k240sx and make exact power on stock motor. And add accusump just for peace of mind
I see DP is a man of culture with that Hot Ones Tee
Get the plain oem "foglight" covers, they're cheap.
My top 3 sauces at the moment. Dirty Dicks (mildish 30k) Torchbearer Garlic Reaper (Hot 600kish) Puckerbutt The Reaper (1mil, pure Reaper sauce, no vinegar, amazing)
I've been saying equal length since jump street. There's no other option in my book. Not if you want to rev it out.
First issue I ran into when going big power is you gotta upgrade to T bolt clamps for all the intercooler piping mine keep popping off on track and at auto cross. . I know this is an old series but just my 2 cents.
So when are you inviting Cleetus to drive the Miata? That would be so much fun.
+1 for Killer B ELH if you don't mind staying at the power level but want improved spool and reliability. I think for warranty reasons, you have to get it coated. No wraps allowed, might ask Chris at KB. If you're going full send, then KillerB ELH + big turbo! I wouldn't worry about "turbo lag" or daily drivability because STIs have never been known for low end power. Gotta rev it out, that's why they're manual trans only!
I need to show this to people that doubt my claims of getting ambient temps on my 2.8T Saab 9-3. I have re-routed pipes that dont hug the motor anymore and a very efficient DO88 big intercooler. On long hey pulls its barely increases 10 degrees F
Finally an expert confirms the value of an ELH on this setup!
Switch to pump E85. I just gained 100hp over my 91 tune.
Omg, I just noticed you’re wearing a Hot Ones shirt!!
I have a precision 6262 with an upgraded turbin built by Treadstone that was only used for their dyno testing. Its available for sale along with the rotated turbo assembly from Treadstone.
Not v-band :( sorry PT
Hey guys awesome video! May I suggest that you get a killer B header. I have one on my '05 Sti installed it couple months ago and what a difference, the motor is very responsive on each gear shift. I had a perrin equal length header for many years and it's a good header and you lose that subie rumble which is fine because it's all about performance but, the killer B you get the performance and keep the rumble. Thanks guys. 🤙
Bigger turbo and equal length header. Also up the fuel injectors to make sure you're getting enough fuel.
@speedacademy i think you should look into the intake manifold not many subaru intakes are designed to be efficient at high rpm they all flow better in the midrange to increase torque numbers, my suggestion is get more high rpm specific manifold
Mike and Cobb are the nuts!
your tomei exhaust manifold is leaking exhaust thru the flex joint. i welded my tomei equal length flex joint on my turbo frs and made more whp.
I think you definitely need a bigger turbo. Heavy head work and an ELH will increase the flow . The “flat four rumble” is not even current tech. It’s just the sound of the inefficient past.
Killer B EL header or a BNM performance fab. turbo 6466 for some real sauce.
Ranger TS only a 4 month wait time on the turbo kit lol just go ETS
Change out the turbo while you’re changing out the exhaust manifold & up-pipe you will have to remove DP anyways to have access to the up-pipe which gives you easy access to the turbo. Think about going ewg also...
Brake dicting for the fogs and open up the holes on the greddy lip, as it sits its useless 👍🏽
Add a Verus Engineering front splitter already!
Haha I remember a few videos back....a few of us told you to ditch that uelh crap.
The thing is....Why the rally STI or Nur Challenge STI even the Nur Specail STI is top mount intercooler but not the front mount one.I think the biggest overheat issue is not all about the intercooler ，it help but not that much.Power is not every thing ，U need wide power band.
We need some ABANDONED STI merch! and full send of course
I know this is old but you're running out of wastegate spring, put a bigger one in so you don't need so much duty cycle up to hold boost to redline
thanks for selling me the intercooler! Subscribed!
Just take it to the track. I don’t want to wait 3 more videos while you install another header/turbo, get it tuned for the third time, etc. Let it rip man!
Killer B holy header and E85
Good stuff, still seems a little low for that motor, but it seems a smooth and consistent curve till you hit a wall.
mine came without fog lamps, so this might actually fit my sti without too much trouble.
Equal length header is the big upgrade I would want. I wouldn't want a bigger turbo because on the street this turbo is where it would be enjoyable. Yes you can make more power, but will you be able to really enjoy it day in day out like this turbo with the equal length? The equal length header will make the it sound much better as well. You can hear when it revs right now where the length is different cylinder to cylinder and that make it sound Harley like.
Is that graph basically saying one of them reaches peak torque about 500 rpm earlier but the other housing reaches it later but reaches more peak power ( looks like almost 40rwhp additional ) ?
Love the Porsche 968 and caged 951 in the background.
Turn the fog lamp holes into brake cooling ducts... otherwise they look great and the silver matches with the Cobb stenciled letters.
Could be as simple as wastegate spring , you can hear it briefly opening on the pulls and then the sound disappears
I think you're good where you're at with current power levels 400ish whp is more than enough for a street STI
Surely it doesn't matter if the hot or cold side is next to the exhaust. The intercooler will always reduce the temperature by X amount due to it's size and the speed at which the air passes through it so if the air is 10C hotter entering it will be 10C hotter exiting. In both scenarios the ideal solution is to insulate the pipes as much as possible to prevent extra heating (as you did with the gold tape) but the fact it's the hot side next to it on the COBB kit is irrelevant.
Just go with what works... FP black stock location(10-12mm hotside) make that 650 on e85 on full steam and 450 on pump gas 93
Full-Race twin scroll header and a Borg Warner EFR 7163 TS on E85.
Classic garrett turbos. Overrates their turbos by 20% because always choose tiny exhaust impelers
you could try fitting LED lights to the bumper
I would keep the fuel issue in mind that was a weird and huge drop in psi at the injectors
Id just throw on a decent ELH header set up from killerb or Fullrace and give the dyno another go. The car will rip with a little bit over 400whp. Going with a 3584rs would require rotation and a new fuel system. I would see if turbo parts canada could modify the housing to flow more. a 15+ sti steering rack would be another nice piece as just about everything on that car has been changed.
You've put a lot of time and money into something that's just going to blow up anyway. I say sell it and buy and NSX. Best mod.
Up next, ETS twin scroll turb kit
Water Methanol injection... would be interesting to see what it does for the current setup. 🏁👍
header forsure. I would track the car with an equal length header. If you feel the car is still underpowered, then upgrade the turbo. That’s just me but seems like the smart route
My 08 sti has the fogless inserts. I'm sure you could find them if you need them. They look a lot nicer than the fog light inserts do without fog lights in them. let me know if you have any questions.
We actually swapped over to the non fog ones to fit the COBB intercooler
Borg-Warner efr turbo maybe