i think it would be quite nice and would make sense to me ... Palas consecrate the ground they are standing on causing enemies dmg and heal friendly players :) they should integrate it in a Talent like the Talents for death and Decay or defile on dks
I like what they're trying to do, all healers are atm are just same spells but different names/animations. They're changing healers now and spicing things up. Can't wait to try it out
I will come back to Legion as a paladin, and I think now it will be holy. I was holy before, when doing tbc raids... this new form looks awesome! LOVE IT!
I noticed one thing that you seem to have overlooked with beacon of the lightbringer and this is something that would allow you to heal from a bit of a range, it states that it heals your target for more not just based on how close YOU are, but if your beacon is closer to your heal target, then it will use the beacon's distance instead of your own. for example if you have a tank stack mechanic, one tank is Beacon, and you heal the OT. it'll use the MT distance to determine the bonus healing from your mastery
in early cata holy was also "melle healer", with radiance being insta cast and healing based on proximity (+ it providing running speed boost) and LoD being a cone spell I loved it :D
I don't know if someone else has mentioned this, but you seem to have misread the holy prism :D If you cast it on an enemy, it damages it and heals your allies around it. And if you cast it on a friendly target,you heal it and damage enemies around that target. @12:40
why do I feel that it only heals for the amount of health lost. for instance, you sacrifice your health x to heal for x amount. but if you sacrifice 0% of your health you will heal for 0.
The Tier 100 talent Beacon of the Lightbringer makes the Beacon of Light target (usually the main tank) a Lightbringer - with that talent the HPal would stand at *ranged* to do much more effective healing.
Regarding raids they would have to give up double beacon and that's essential. Maybe Beacon of the Lightbringer can be used more effectively in Challenge Modes or PvP
+Ian Thornburg As a tank I'd assume they would take the middle lvl 100 talent most of the time for group content and stand at range with beacon on the current tank? So that's group quests, 5 mans, raids etc. The only thing I can think of they would need double beacon for is if in a raid both tanks are tanking at the same time? most fights (at least in WoD) involve some kind of tank swap so one tank is taking zero (or not much) damage and therefore wouldn't need beacon?
James Simpson I can see being in 5 mans or small world group content that the Lightbringer talent would be pretty damn useful. But if the raids in Legion are anything like they are today that do involve a lot of tank damage whether that be adds that need to be tanked, debuffs, cleaves etc. then double beacon will be the mandatory talent for raids just like it is currently on live servers.
This new Holy Spec seems neat, back in Wrath I used to play Holy Paladin spending talents in old Talent System on both Holy and Retribution Talent Tree, I think most people call it the Shockadin Spec which is a Melee Healer.
This very much looks like the Holy I've been looking for since Vanilla. Always been a Ret, but after being forced to heal in classic I always off-specced for heals. Holy Power was something I just couldn't get my head around for holy - too few generators imo, so overall this version looks really great! I enjoyed some aspects of Mistweaver, a few more aspects of Resto-sham, but as a life-long Pally, I think this is the first time I may really enjoy healing on my main. Can't wait to try it out (and find that this was all rose-tinted, then fall back to mindless dpsing all the time, haha!)
Its a great guide, but i think you might be misinterpreting how holy paladins will be on Legion. There's only one talent that forces you to be at melee range of the BOSS, which is crusader's might. Any other damaging spell which could benefit you is ranged like judgment. Whatsoever you WILL need to be at melee range of players. You can still be with range dps (on melee range) and still be a good holy paladin w/o missing any buff or benefit from not being on melee range from boss. So it is a melee healer, but not from a perspective of being on melee range from the boss, but from being at melee range from players.
yeah i think he should revisit this class. alot of the talents have been reworked and the whole having to be with melee thing. you can either stand with melee and be in a group or stand with range. both will work fine.
Honestly I cant wait for this. We get a unique play style from all of the other healers, and it will mean that switching between talent builds won't be as taxing as it used to be.
This makes totally logical, people who played Warcraft 3 knows, Paladin had Holy Light, Devotion Aura, Divine Shield and Resurrection, makes perfect sense to wield two-handed weapon. Also Arthas, Uther and other Paladins in WC3 wielded big ass two-handed mace!
+justin4018 well looking at blizzards track record im gonna go ahead and assume its never gonna happen. Ret will die for real this time, even holy has a 2 hander now so its kinda 1upping ret.
I hope the spell Judgment of Hope (used by yrel in the beginning of tanaan intro) is added or at least it's visual. It would be great for the idea of a melee holy pally
Also..this feels a bit like what Vanilla Holy was like..we used to have to Judge bosses to apply the buff/debuff of whatever seal we were using. For example seal of wisdom would apply a buff to the boss which would regen mana for anyone who attacked it for X amount of time. Crusader strike would refresh the duration of the judgement buff on the boss etc. It was a lot more clunky back then so this is what I always wished it would be back then..and with a 2h + Libram finally!
I think my play style based on this will be 1 of 2 things. A: Go with beacon of the lightbringer and stand in range while putting the beacon on tank and letting melee get healed extra that way. B: If the fight has melee and range stack together I will instead go beacon of faith to double down on both tank heals. I really hope blizzard goes back on "adding dps to healers" I like to heal I didn't role a healer to dps. I am ok with dpsing occasionally if there is truly no one to heal but if my dps numbers start being needed to down bosses will suck. One of my biggest complaints in playing FFXIV as a healer was people complaining about not dpsing enough as a healer.
+FFgamesftw thank you was looking for this cause from what ive seen in talents and such it doesnt look like melee healer. Obviously if you pick those crusader strike talents youll have to stay in melee range but it doesnt seem to be that viable compared to other talents, plus without holy power what other reason we have to cast crusader strike? The mastery increases healing based on proximity to the target youre healing and not to the boss so with lightbringer talent you can have the bonus of the mastery on pretty much every1 and not just one part of the group. we can still cast judgement in range so only reason i see to get closer is consecration, the auras (but we have aura mastery for whenever youll actually need to have that present on every1) and the artifact weapon ability but the range shouldnt be that small that you cant stand in range
You misread beacon of the light bringer. it lets your beacon as a proxy for you towards your mastery increasing healing on those near you and near your beacon, this lets you stay ranged.
I know some will probably hate this, but as someone who loved paladin to death prior to the holy power change, I love where they're headed. I may actually make my paladin my main again. Looking forward to this.
I like that H pally use 2H weps now, however I has a question Are we going to be able to transmog our artifact wep to w/e we want or is it only going to be one of the premade artifact wep models?
Oh I am absolutely loving this! I used to mess around in Cata by running in and getting extra holy power by using crusader strike. this will certainly bring me back. Im also hoping they make mana relevant again
This is one of the first Legion spec overhauls that I am actually pretty excited for, alongside discipline priests. The changes really seem to fit the fantasy of a paladin, and it seems like there are a number of viable playstyles. I hope the hybrid aspects of the specs are actually viable and as fun as they seem like they'll be!
+Fuyu no Kitsune I completely agree! Paladins are basically unique for this play style, have the armor to actually be in the heat of battle and they always had resources for such way of combat. Idk about you, but before Blizz completely revamped the talent tree system (pre-Cata) I actually noticed paladins had some talents which increase their healing capabilities, provided they hit the boss/mob from time to time. In addition to that, healing 2H maces in Vanilla and I think Blizzard planned on doing this for some time but I guess either other stuff came or they didn't know how they would implement it in the game. So I am glad they finally have decided on the best course of action for H-Pallys and I am really exited to see them when the legion hits.
Matej Maretić Oh man, I had forgotten about some of those talents! When shockadins were still a thing, I played the heck out of it and loved it. It's nice to see some of the hybrid and fun aspects of it back, just in a more formal and toned-down setting.
meele abilities do not have a man cost so if you pick the talent that causes your attacks to heal your beacon you can heal the beacon for free during light to medium amount of damage ... since three damaging attacks cause the same heal as the cast does combined with the target taking 20% less damage because of your aura i would say there are some nice possibilities and raid utility here and if you don't want/can do that there are other options
You kinda missed the point of Beacon of the Lightbringer. EVERY holy paladin will take this because you put your beacons on the tanks, and then you stand with ranged (to avoid all the melee effects bosses have to make your job as a healer less complicated) and now your aoe heals will have a better effect on the ranged group you are standing in. Thank god, I was hoping I wasn't going to have to go in to melee range. Blizzard routinely does this with Holy Pallies and it never goes well.
We lost that dash youre talking about. What new cc, we still only have a stun, and its even shorter range. Oh yeah our bubble is also shortened down and its still dispellable. Oh yeah and our damage isn't tuned yet and the alpha just had a major damage nerf across the board for all classes in pvp. So yeah, not sure what you are talking about.
You do realize the reason for having an alpha right? It's so we can provide feedback. Complaining is a form of negative feedback. I'm not sure where you come off as some guy talking down on people that call bs out. Also I'm certain your parents would think they failed if they saw what kind of toxic behavior you show here. Why don't you grow up and learn some manners, then we can talk like civilized adults, assuming you are even old enough to be one which I highly doubt.
This is blizzards answer to melee healing. Due to them adding more damage going out vs mechanics aka melee take far more damage than range(might also be player base lacking focus), holy pally will be in the thick of things with them. So far holy pally looks by far the most fun to play.
+J Ewert With beacon of lightbringer you could also just drop a holy pally in a ranged blob, let them put their beacon on a melee target and constantly put out small heals via mercy to ranged while still being effective at healing the melee blob.
+RatchildUK The book you are referring to is also available, you just can't see it in the off-hand equipment slot. Look at the paladin's hip (on his left), and you will see the book.
u had that backwards, ull sit in ranged as you do now and use the lightbringer beacon to heal the melee for full amount, basically nullifying the mastery entirely and nothing will change
Thanks Bellular for the great video and loads of info. Everything looks so fresh I am glad Blizzard has reworked the same old class to get them a new perspective. Hope nothing change to much...I am really wanting to dust off my pally and try this out.
The point of beacon of the lightbringer is so you DON'T have to be in melee range. You put the beacon on the tank then you can stand in range like normal because you will now be close to BOTH groups. Because holy lost holy power crusader strike does nothing when healing unless you talent for it. The mastery forces paladins to take beacon of the lightbringer as it is the best way to get full use of your mastery. That being said some math wiz might figure screw master go for crit and just take 2 beacons as normal. Beacon of the savior turns holy into a bad fistweave healing spec. Nice idea but most likely will fall flat. That being said if holy can keep the tank alive but just dpsing and the dps isn't too bad I could see groups taking a 1 holy paladin for the split in damage and healing, kinda like the new disc priest.
I tried melee hpally on live for a few days, since alot of the abilities encouraged weaving in between attacking and healing. I couldn't get a hold of it, especially in PvP where melee range for healers reduces healing output immensely due to a greater exposure to CC since much of the WoD hpally kit had damning cast times (ie. Word of Glory, Light of Dawn), and getting the right combos to reduce those cast times became very difficult to pull off in a PvP environment. Even just running around and chasing targets or getting out of trouble drops your healing output significantly in PvP. Switching between friendly and enemy targets was madness and I wish that some spells (especially Judgement and Holy Shock) could hit targets without the need to switch between friend and foe or aid from macro commands (eg. Allowing Judgement to be cast on friendly targets, giving them a short-lived buff): I'd sacrifice accuracy in dps if it meant I could utilize the benefits from these spells more often. I might give it another go, but I see hpallys get away with being healer turrets which is a bit disappointing since I was initially excited at the idea of a melee healer and thought that paladins fit that mold well. I haven't tried hpally in PvE, so maybe that's where I'll find the niche for the spec. The Legion kit looks interesting with a lot of passive healing intertwined with plenty of instant cast spells, and the new Mastery. The Auras look fun as well, since they allow the paladin to chose between passive healing, passive AoE damage mitigation and damage redirection. I think the biggest challenge concerning the effectiveness of the spec will be making the constant re-positioning of the paladin out-weigh what could effectively be time spent healing.
Disc priest had the throughput before, it was just made better. They just removed the fist weaving aspect from monk, still butt hurt about that, but hopefully holly pally with hit the same spot
+Steffen Carlsen I thought the same thing. RIP fist weaving, you will be missed. Maybe a miracle will happen on the alpha and MW monks get it back, but I somehow doubt it ):
I don't even play wow anymore but won't this be really awkward I'm dungeons? I mean imagine having 3 ranged dos and having to stand in melee range just to attack and heal the tank.
+Sho Ichimaru I don't think it's going to be awkward at all, really. The whole proximity-based healing thing seems more oriented for getting up close and personal for those clutch saves and bursts. Otherwise, your base healing is still decently substantial.
+Sho Ichimaru Blizzard is going with 'return to the core fantasy' theme with classes. Now if you played Warcraft 3 by any chance, you would notice that paladins there were basically healers who fought in melee. Personally, I find this change to be awesome as I always saw paladins as melee fighters/healers instead of standing there somewhere and do the healing. Thank goodness they've removed the shield from equation. Class-wise, it seems Blizzard is finally going in the right direction with them.
+Sho Ichimaru Nah. While it looks cool. these changes only serve to give holy pallys the ability to solo effectively. Of all the healers they have been horrid to do dailies on and quest. Not saying that healers have ever been all that amazing. But, Holy pallys where AWFUL by comparison. In dungeons and groups, they'll just stand closer to the tank vs at max range. Just altering the positioning healers are accustom to. I doubt we'll see alot of healers running up and dpsing raid bosses
@BellularGaming Can we transmog the artifacts I am asking as I don't want to pay all that gold for CM warlords gold and then find out I can't even use the thing.
Can they just announce a release date or a release date for beta i just want to know that there actually getting somewhere with this xpac and that we can see it be live in 5-6 months
I'm curious on how this will play. This messes with the healing meta. My friend who played until the end of wrath as holy is really interested in how this will play.
blizzard is theming all of the specs, Ret is centered around Tirion Fordring, Holy is centered around Uther etc, not to mention the paladin since they were introduced in the warcraft series have been traditionally depicted as using a big ass hammer and a libram
Ive played Hpal since TBC for pvp and I'm interested in how this will play out, They've removed Rebuke for Holy, They no longer have saved by the light, They took away Sentence, kinda wired but the changes look fun
So , will they be treated as melee or as a healer for the sake of raid mechanics? Will they be targeted with abilities that normally only target ranged dps and healers?
+Tim Perry Paladins (and Mistweavers since they're also a melee spec) will have their own special categorization. They'll get hit by ranged mechanics that force them out of the group but not ranged mechanics that drop bad shit on the ground.
Couldn't you also avoid the talents that effect your damage abilities and still play them as a standard ranged healer, using the beacon on the tank (with the 100 talent) to use your mastery on the melee? Just something for those not interested in dpsing as a healer to think about.
Holy is lucky being melee based, and it's damage spells are good enough to quest with, albeit slower than a dps, and maybe tanks. However, going ret is probably a bad idea since you will be levelling ashbringer instead of the holy artifact.
Mmmm. I see Consecration and wonder why it also doesn't offer a heal over time for Holy. lol. Seems like it would fit. xD I'm so glad to see our spec in the front lines. I really hope it works out.
For me, as a Holy Paladin, the healing rotation is rather simple. WOD had the right balance. Like they've taken away Holy Prism and Eternal Flame, our only HoT. Which sucks. However, the concept of Melee healing is different and I am eager to try it. I do hope they add a few or even one more heal for the normal rotation, but as the DH is coming in (another Melee class) I think Holy Paladins will be in big demand! And enjoyable to play.
+Xander Ellem If you think a holy paladin in WoD should be in melee range to CS the boss you CLEARLY are an LFR hero. Try doing that in Mythic HFC and watch yourself get kicked at lighting speed.
+MrDapper Maybe but even in pvp you don't want to be running up to the other team to get holy power from crusader strike even in pvp. plus judgement hasn't given holy power since MoP so either he is using out of date info which could be or is making a statement without understand how the class is played at high end.
+Bryce Pletcher yeah I was thinking the same thing. I do mythic raiding on my holy paladin and almost exclusively stand at range and never touch crusader strike. I gain my holy power from constant holy shocking and if I need to pump out aoe healing use radiance to gain holy power on demand. Sacred shield does more healing than Eternal Flame on most boss fights and word of glory does less healing than light of dawn (except in rare circumstances where only a few targets are below 100% health) so you use your holy power there. In Cata and before being in melee was beneficial due to the mana return from seal of wisdom but once they got rid of that it no longer made any sense.
i'm really interested in the upcoming raids, because with holy palas being better at melee range, having another melee class with DH and giving hunter an very interesting melee spec.. how will they compense with all those melees? i cant remember a situation in wow when you wanted to have a lot of melees in a bossfight.. the only thing to handle the healpalas is to let them heal the range-camp as mainfocus
+schippes24 My hope is. As it has been since BC. Is that they will experiment with more dynamic raid mechanics. Tailoring encounters with Ranged only effects vs melee only effects. Rather than just Cleave, debuff and don't stand in fire. given the shift in class specs they're going to need to. but that's me being optimistic, overly.
Im glad they are changing holy paladin I might main this healing spec or at least spend a lot of time playing this spec because its really bad in WoD. Glad holy power is out, thing was useless..
some nerfs and buff here and there but in general i think they completely changed our playstyle. And i love it. Seriously guys if you've been playing as a holadin in hfc you're rotation is shock>judge>flash all the time, plus some light of dawn. That's all your healing rotation. Now in legion things are going to be sooooo different.Finally some versatility on terms of customisation and no more pre-set talent choices.
Nicro328 have u never heard of selfless healer?And also Word of glory's healing isnt worth it when you're playing with selfless healer so...light of dawn does slightly more healing and it's far more usefull.
Orfeas prountzos Not sure why anyone would ever use selfless healer, unless they were trying to increase their e-peen slightly. Eternal Flame is better for progression (coming from a person that healed mythic hfc) as you just leave it on the tank as a HoT and continue to chain Holy Shock and Holy Light. Paladin healing is rather linear, so there shouldn't really be that much of a difference in our rotation. However, I haven't played since November-ish, so I may be outdated with my claims. This was me at the time though (Holyswag): www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7MbHGJyngDQrBVwA#type=healing
hmm... I know that the difference between eternal flame and SH aint much in terms of hps. But we're still progressing with my guild and when shit happens, a flash of light can save some'1 life when u got even 1 stack of SH. And well you might be overhealing most of the times(it's about 15-20% more overhealing than EF) since u basically crit for 500k with just 1 stack( my best was 2.6m with wings, 3 stacks and vision buff) which is more than 100% of some1's health but it doesnt really matter cause you're mana consuption is down to half and you're also putting shit loads of absorb on everyone.It's basically snipe healing and you can "fill the holes" much faster.
a healer that's still stuck with a load of longish cast time direct heals forced to sit in melee and deal with the anti-melee raid designs wow always has? yeah..nothing wrong with that...sigh
byteresistor For literally ALL of Cataclysm, where half our mana return depended on being in melee? And for the majority of WotLK where they stacked in melee to help make ranged mechanics simpler?
They need a new animation for casting a heal..since you will be swinging on the boss it just looks dumb to put it on your back to cast. Could use the consecration animation and it would look much better. Casting it by raising your hammer instead of the normal casting animation. imo anyway.
![WoW Legion Alpha: Protection Paladin Is Very Different! [Spec Overview]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b0gvYQWcdvQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Since they are melee healers, they should make consecrate do some aoe healing.
i think it would be quite nice and would make sense to me ... Palas consecrate the ground they are standing on causing enemies dmg and heal friendly players :) they should integrate it in a Talent like the Talents for death and Decay or defile on dks
Totally agree. It would give even more incentive to be in melee range.
I think an AoE heal should be a major glyph for Consecrate instead as part of the spell.
+Seth Arent All major glyphs will be removed in Legion. The minor cosmetic glyphs will remain.
Eric Combs I don't like that. I like having those little choices to amplify some spells.
I like what they're trying to do, all healers are atm are just same spells but different names/animations. They're changing healers now and spicing things up. Can't wait to try it out
I will come back to Legion as a paladin, and I think now it will be holy. I was holy before, when doing tbc raids... this new form looks awesome! LOVE IT!
+Pocok Likewise
I'm excited about the changes. Paladins are supposed to be up close and personal healers. There's a reason why we wear plate. I can't wait for Legion.
I noticed one thing that you seem to have overlooked with beacon of the lightbringer and this is something that would allow you to heal from a bit of a range, it states that it heals your target for more not just based on how close YOU are, but if your beacon is closer to your heal target, then it will use the beacon's distance instead of your own. for example if you have a tank stack mechanic, one tank is Beacon, and you heal the OT. it'll use the MT distance to determine the bonus healing from your mastery
in early cata holy was also "melle healer", with radiance being insta cast and healing based on proximity (+ it providing running speed boost) and LoD being a cone spell
I loved it :D
I don't know if someone else has mentioned this, but you seem to have misread the holy prism :D If you cast it on an enemy, it damages it and heals your allies around it. And if you cast it on a friendly target,you heal it and damage enemies around that target. @12:40
I main a holy pally atm and OMFG I'm in love with legions holy pally. thank you getting this uploaded @Belluargaming
I'm currently a Holy Palladin, and I've got to say I am very much looking forward to trying out this melee healer
If you bubble and then use light of the martyr would it still cost health?
+Lampwik03 Nope. So this can be very effective!
why do I feel that it only heals for the amount of health lost. for instance, you sacrifice your health x to heal for x amount. but if you sacrifice 0% of your health you will heal for 0.
any idea on when feral artifact will be coming?
The Tier 100 talent Beacon of the Lightbringer makes the Beacon of Light target (usually the main tank) a Lightbringer - with that talent the HPal would stand at *ranged* to do much more effective healing.
Regarding raids they would have to give up double beacon and that's essential. Maybe Beacon of the Lightbringer can be used more effectively in Challenge Modes or PvP
+Ian Thornburg As a tank I'd assume they would take the middle lvl 100 talent most of the time for group content and stand at range with beacon on the current tank? So that's group quests, 5 mans, raids etc. The only thing I can think of they would need double beacon for is if in a raid both tanks are tanking at the same time? most fights (at least in WoD) involve some kind of tank swap so one tank is taking zero (or not much) damage and therefore wouldn't need beacon?
James Simpson I can see being in 5 mans or small world group content that the Lightbringer talent would be pretty damn useful. But if the raids in Legion are anything like they are today that do involve a lot of tank damage whether that be adds that need to be tanked, debuffs, cleaves etc. then double beacon will be the mandatory talent for raids just like it is currently on live servers.
This new Holy Spec seems neat, back in Wrath I used to play Holy Paladin spending talents in old Talent System on both Holy and Retribution Talent Tree, I think most people call it the Shockadin Spec which is a Melee Healer.
This very much looks like the Holy I've been looking for since Vanilla. Always been a Ret, but after being forced to heal in classic I always off-specced for heals. Holy Power was something I just couldn't get my head around for holy - too few generators imo, so overall this version looks really great! I enjoyed some aspects of Mistweaver, a few more aspects of Resto-sham, but as a life-long Pally, I think this is the first time I may really enjoy healing on my main. Can't wait to try it out (and find that this was all rose-tinted, then fall back to mindless dpsing all the time, haha!)
You should redo the Spriest video, Bell. They took a 160 since the last time. Yes, 160, not an entire 180. Still worth coverage though. Thanks.
Its a great guide, but i think you might be misinterpreting how holy paladins will be on Legion. There's only one talent that forces you to be at melee range of the BOSS, which is crusader's might. Any other damaging spell which could benefit you is ranged like judgment. Whatsoever you WILL need to be at melee range of players. You can still be with range dps (on melee range) and still be a good holy paladin w/o missing any buff or benefit from not being on melee range from boss. So it is a melee healer, but not from a perspective of being on melee range from the boss, but from being at melee range from players.
yeah i think he should revisit this class. alot of the talents have been reworked and the whole having to be with melee thing. you can either stand with melee and be in a group or stand with range. both will work fine.
When will you do an overview of mistweaver? really looking forward to it
So, Holy Paladins are now Warrior Priests, right? I like.
+Qaoz said nobody ever
***** That reply is a paradox in itself. Obviously, someone said it, because you just replied to me saying it.
Honestly I cant wait for this. We get a unique play style from all of the other healers, and it will mean that switching between talent builds won't be as taxing as it used to be.
This makes totally logical, people who played Warcraft 3 knows, Paladin had Holy Light, Devotion Aura, Divine Shield and Resurrection, makes perfect sense to wield two-handed weapon. Also Arthas, Uther and other Paladins in WC3 wielded big ass two-handed mace!
Meanwhile I wait ass clenched for a Ret pally buff.
+justin4018 well looking at blizzards track record im gonna go ahead and assume its never gonna happen. Ret will die for real this time, even holy has a 2 hander now so its kinda 1upping ret.
I hope the spell Judgment of Hope (used by yrel in the beginning of tanaan intro) is added or at least it's visual. It would be great for the idea of a melee holy pally
Holy shit, so this is basically based on the Paladin model of the Warcraft RTS games. LOVE IT
Also I don't see Holy with Devotion area in WoD form, They don't have a spell that makes us immune to kicks for a short time anymore?
Also..this feels a bit like what Vanilla Holy was like..we used to have to Judge bosses to apply the buff/debuff of whatever seal we were using. For example seal of wisdom would apply a buff to the boss which would regen mana for anyone who attacked it for X amount of time. Crusader strike would refresh the duration of the judgement buff on the boss etc. It was a lot more clunky back then so this is what I always wished it would be back then..and with a 2h + Libram finally!
I think my play style based on this will be 1 of 2 things.
A: Go with beacon of the lightbringer and stand in range while putting the beacon on tank and letting melee get healed extra that way.
B: If the fight has melee and range stack together I will instead go beacon of faith to double down on both tank heals.
I really hope blizzard goes back on "adding dps to healers"
I like to heal I didn't role a healer to dps. I am ok with dpsing occasionally if there is truly no one to heal but if my dps numbers start being needed to down bosses will suck.
One of my biggest complaints in playing FFXIV as a healer was people complaining about not dpsing enough as a healer.
+FFgamesftw thank you was looking for this cause from what ive seen in talents and such it doesnt look like melee healer. Obviously if you pick those crusader strike talents youll have to stay in melee range but it doesnt seem to be that viable compared to other talents, plus without holy power what other reason we have to cast crusader strike? The mastery increases healing based on proximity to the target youre healing and not to the boss so with lightbringer talent you can have the bonus of the mastery on pretty much every1 and not just one part of the group. we can still cast judgement in range so only reason i see to get closer is consecration, the auras (but we have aura mastery for whenever youll actually need to have that present on every1) and the artifact weapon ability but the range shouldnt be that small that you cant stand in range
You misread beacon of the light bringer. it lets your beacon as a proxy for you towards your mastery increasing healing on those near you and near your beacon, this lets you stay ranged.
What is the bar on the top of the screen???
I know some will probably hate this, but as someone who loved paladin to death prior to the holy power change, I love where they're headed. I may actually make my paladin my main again. Looking forward to this.
I like that H pally use 2H weps now, however I has a question Are we going to be able to transmog our artifact wep to w/e we want or is it only going to be one of the premade artifact wep models?
I'd like to ask, what is that armour set that he's using?
Oh I am absolutely loving this! I used to mess around in Cata by running in and getting extra holy power by using crusader strike. this will certainly bring me back. Im also hoping they make mana relevant again
This is one of the first Legion spec overhauls that I am actually pretty excited for, alongside discipline priests. The changes really seem to fit the fantasy of a paladin, and it seems like there are a number of viable playstyles. I hope the hybrid aspects of the specs are actually viable and as fun as they seem like they'll be!
+Fuyu no Kitsune I completely agree! Paladins are basically unique for this play style, have the armor to actually be in the heat of battle and they always had resources for such way of combat. Idk about you, but before Blizz completely revamped the talent tree system (pre-Cata) I actually noticed paladins had some talents which increase their healing capabilities, provided they hit the boss/mob from time to time. In addition to that, healing 2H maces in Vanilla and I think Blizzard planned on doing this for some time but I guess either other stuff came or they didn't know how they would implement it in the game. So I am glad they finally have decided on the best course of action for H-Pallys and I am really exited to see them when the legion hits.
Matej Maretić Oh man, I had forgotten about some of those talents! When shockadins were still a thing, I played the heck out of it and loved it. It's nice to see some of the hybrid and fun aspects of it back, just in a more formal and toned-down setting.
I'm really excited about this. I main a Resto shaman and my pally hasn't been holy since wrath but I think I'm going to like this play style.
I main a holy pally and I'm super excited for all of this it seems like we are going to be awesome
So how do we PVP heal in BGs? We will be a CC sitting duck
meele abilities do not have a man cost
so if you pick the talent that causes your attacks to heal your beacon you can heal the beacon for free during light to medium amount of damage ... since three damaging attacks cause the same heal as the cast does
combined with the target taking 20% less damage because of your aura
i would say there are some nice possibilities and raid utility here
and if you don't want/can do that there are other options
is feral druid already open?
You kinda missed the point of Beacon of the Lightbringer. EVERY holy paladin will take this because you put your beacons on the tanks, and then you stand with ranged (to avoid all the melee effects bosses have to make your job as a healer less complicated) and now your aoe heals will have a better effect on the ranged group you are standing in.
Thank god, I was hoping I wasn't going to have to go in to melee range. Blizzard routinely does this with Holy Pallies and it never goes well.
Looks like a lot of love for holy and prot. Such a shame ret is always neglected.
+Lune Ashbringer Ashbringer Ashbringer Ashbringer Ashbringer
+Muhammad Al Kherim yeah too bad the actual spec is garbage right now. I like to call it the Trashbringer instead.
We lost that dash youre talking about. What new cc, we still only have a stun, and its even shorter range. Oh yeah our bubble is also shortened down and its still dispellable. Oh yeah and our damage isn't tuned yet and the alpha just had a major damage nerf across the board for all classes in pvp. So yeah, not sure what you are talking about.
You mean Turalyons Might? yeah that was removed a month ago.
You do realize the reason for having an alpha right? It's so we can provide feedback. Complaining is a form of negative feedback. I'm not sure where you come off as some guy talking down on people that call bs out. Also I'm certain your parents would think they failed if they saw what kind of toxic behavior you show here. Why don't you grow up and learn some manners, then we can talk like civilized adults, assuming you are even old enough to be one which I highly doubt.
This is blizzards answer to melee healing. Due to them adding more damage going out vs mechanics aka melee take far more damage than range(might also be player base lacking focus), holy pally will be in the thick of things with them. So far holy pally looks by far the most fun to play.
+J Ewert With beacon of lightbringer you could also just drop a holy pally in a ranged blob, let them put their beacon on a melee target and constantly put out small heals via mercy to ranged while still being effective at healing the melee blob.
Finally holy pala with some big heals outside of wings.
so if you pick the middle level 100 talent you dont have to stand in melee to get the most out of your mastery
these are amazing changes for holy paladin
because right now on live, holy paladin is the most boring thing ever, like 4 spells
Why did they make it a two hander? :(
I want that offhand, looked like WC3 Arthas/Uther with the book and hammer.
+RatchildUK while it doesn't show on the items you will have a libram on your belt with you two-handed mace, just like Uther :)
+Kisa Hölzl Ah sweet, I see it on the belt now.
+RatchildUK The book you are referring to is also available, you just can't see it in the off-hand equipment slot. Look at the paladin's hip (on his left), and you will see the book.
+RatchildUK The book comes with the hammer. When you equip the hammer it adds the libram as a flavor graphic.
u had that backwards, ull sit in ranged as you do now and use the lightbringer beacon to heal the melee for full amount, basically nullifying the mastery entirely and nothing will change
Thanks Bellular for the great video and loads of info.
Everything looks so fresh I am glad Blizzard has reworked the same old class to get them a new perspective. Hope nothing change to much...I am really wanting to dust off my pally and try this out.
The point of beacon of the lightbringer is so you DON'T have to be in melee range. You put the beacon on the tank then you can stand in range like normal because you will now be close to BOTH groups. Because holy lost holy power crusader strike does nothing when healing unless you talent for it. The mastery forces paladins to take beacon of the lightbringer as it is the best way to get full use of your mastery. That being said some math wiz might figure screw master go for crit and just take 2 beacons as normal. Beacon of the savior turns holy into a bad fistweave healing spec. Nice idea but most likely will fall flat. That being said if holy can keep the tank alive but just dpsing and the dps isn't too bad I could see groups taking a 1 holy paladin for the split in damage and healing, kinda like the new disc priest.
And now the vid I've been waiting for since blizzcon. Hype!
This looks dope. Idk if I can bring myself to swap specs though. Been a Ret since I started playing.
I tried melee hpally on live for a few days, since alot of the abilities encouraged weaving in between attacking and healing. I couldn't get a hold of it, especially in PvP where melee range for healers reduces healing output immensely due to a greater exposure to CC since much of the WoD hpally kit had damning cast times (ie. Word of Glory, Light of Dawn), and getting the right combos to reduce those cast times became very difficult to pull off in a PvP environment. Even just running around and chasing targets or getting out of trouble drops your healing output significantly in PvP. Switching between friendly and enemy targets was madness and I wish that some spells (especially Judgement and Holy Shock) could hit targets without the need to switch between friend and foe or aid from macro commands (eg. Allowing Judgement to be cast on friendly targets, giving them a short-lived buff): I'd sacrifice accuracy in dps if it meant I could utilize the benefits from these spells more often.
I might give it another go, but I see hpallys get away with being healer turrets which is a bit disappointing since I was initially excited at the idea of a melee healer and thought that paladins fit that mold well. I haven't tried hpally in PvE, so maybe that's where I'll find the niche for the spec. The Legion kit looks interesting with a lot of passive healing intertwined with plenty of instant cast spells, and the new Mastery. The Auras look fun as well, since they allow the paladin to chose between passive healing, passive AoE damage mitigation and damage redirection. I think the biggest challenge concerning the effectiveness of the spec will be making the constant re-positioning of the paladin out-weigh what could effectively be time spent healing.
So they took Mistweaver's melee component and gave it to holy paladin and gave the heal by damage component to disc priest? nice
Disc priest had the throughput before, it was just made better. They just removed the fist weaving aspect from monk, still butt hurt about that, but hopefully holly pally with hit the same spot
+Steffen Carlsen I thought the same thing. RIP fist weaving, you will be missed. Maybe a miracle will happen on the alpha and MW monks get it back, but I somehow doubt it ):
+Imayan I doubt it too. It's been made into discs core thing now. Disc had it first anyway so it's cool that it's their core mechanic now.
OMG they are so uther lightbringer-like now. I LOVE IT
I don't even play wow anymore but won't this be really awkward I'm dungeons? I mean imagine having 3 ranged dos and having to stand in melee range just to attack and heal the tank.
+Sho Ichimaru I don't think it's going to be awkward at all, really. The whole proximity-based healing thing seems more oriented for getting up close and personal for those clutch saves and bursts. Otherwise, your base healing is still decently substantial.
+Sho Ichimaru Blizzard is going with 'return to the core fantasy' theme with classes. Now if you played Warcraft 3 by any chance, you would notice that paladins there were basically healers who fought in melee.
Personally, I find this change to be awesome as I always saw paladins as melee fighters/healers instead of standing there somewhere and do the healing. Thank goodness they've removed the shield from equation. Class-wise, it seems Blizzard is finally going in the right direction with them.
+Sho Ichimaru So go for Beacon of the Lightbringer, and boom, problem solved.
+Sho Ichimaru theyre gonna suck in pvp as well
+Sho Ichimaru Nah. While it looks cool. these changes only serve to give holy pallys the ability to solo effectively. Of all the healers they have been horrid to do dailies on and quest. Not saying that healers have ever been all that amazing. But, Holy pallys where AWFUL by comparison. In dungeons and groups, they'll just stand closer to the tank vs at max range. Just altering the positioning healers are accustom to. I doubt we'll see alot of healers running up and dpsing raid bosses
What's that up bar?Some addon or ?
+Lazy_man
It's the regular bar.
Can you show your cursor please, it's really hard to keep up which skill you're showing when i am unfamiliar with this class. Thx
@BellularGaming Can we transmog the artifacts I am asking as I don't want to pay all that gold for CM warlords gold and then find out I can't even use the thing.
Can they just announce a release date or a release date for beta i just want to know that there actually getting somewhere with this xpac and that we can see it be live in 5-6 months
So could you pop wings, bubble and spam light of the martyr without taking damage for 8 seconds? Might be a clutch situation raid saver technique
+Trevor Ruth Yup if you bubble you wont take dmg from Light of the Martyr.
whats with the ticking heal when you get within like 10-15 yards ?
+DeFaux ITS IN THE VIDEO WATCH IT THROUGH LOL
well obvly i must f missed it, iw as only asking a question - you dont have to be a tool about it
I'm curious on how this will play. This messes with the healing meta. My friend who played until the end of wrath as holy is really interested in how this will play.
Am I correct in assuming that you can transmog artifact weapons? I'm not a fan of this holy hammer at all.
Finally! i have been waiting for this video! XD thank you!
Love the melee healer thing... but I like hammer and shield better. Is there no shield option? Why make the change?
blizzard is theming all of the specs, Ret is centered around Tirion Fordring, Holy is centered around Uther etc, not to mention the paladin since they were introduced in the warcraft series have been traditionally depicted as using a big ass hammer and a libram
Ive played Hpal since TBC for pvp and I'm interested in how this will play out, They've removed Rebuke for Holy, They no longer have saved by the light, They took away Sentence, kinda wired but the changes look fun
So , will they be treated as melee or as a healer for the sake of raid mechanics? Will they be targeted with abilities that normally only target ranged dps and healers?
+Tim Perry Paladins (and Mistweavers since they're also a melee spec) will have their own special categorization. They'll get hit by ranged mechanics that force them out of the group but not ranged mechanics that drop bad shit on the ground.
Couldn't you also avoid the talents that effect your damage abilities and still play them as a standard ranged healer, using the beacon on the tank (with the 100 talent) to use your mastery on the melee? Just something for those not interested in dpsing as a healer to think about.
Did he just say healing jutsu at 3:59?
love the pallys hall
And what about leveling up to 110? How? There is enough damage from holy spec or we have to switch to retri?
was thinking the same but then again imma do it like always quest retri and que as holy for lfg
Holy is lucky being melee based, and it's damage spells are good enough to quest with, albeit slower than a dps, and maybe tanks. However, going ret is probably a bad idea since you will be levelling ashbringer instead of the holy artifact.
IDD and then I would say thanx for the awesome tip guess imma HAVE to lvl up holy
Mmmm.
I see Consecration and wonder why it also doesn't offer a heal over time for Holy. lol. Seems like it would fit. xD
I'm so glad to see our spec in the front lines. I really hope it works out.
where is denounce?
i think that holy pallies will be popular in melee raid comps. :D
So Holy paladins, HAVE to stand in melee? No longer able to heal from a distance like normal?
I still think consecration should heal and do damage to people standing in it. Instead of just damaging.
For me, as a Holy Paladin, the healing rotation is rather simple. WOD had the right balance. Like they've taken away Holy Prism and Eternal Flame, our only HoT. Which sucks. However, the concept of Melee healing is different and I am eager to try it. I do hope they add a few or even one more heal for the normal rotation, but as the DH is coming in (another Melee class) I think Holy Paladins will be in big demand! And enjoyable to play.
holy pallys have been melee healers for ages if you weren't in melee using crusader strike and judgment for extra holy power you were doing it wrong.
+Xander Ellem overall the term melee healer is wrong, its just a close up healer that needs to be close to the tank.
+Xander Ellem If you think a holy paladin in WoD should be in melee range to CS the boss you CLEARLY are an LFR hero. Try doing that in Mythic HFC and watch yourself get kicked at lighting speed.
+Bryce Pletcher He probably meant PvP
+MrDapper Maybe but even in pvp you don't want to be running up to the other team to get holy power from crusader strike even in pvp. plus judgement hasn't given holy power since MoP so either he is using out of date info which could be or is making a statement without understand how the class is played at high end.
+Bryce Pletcher yeah I was thinking the same thing. I do mythic raiding on my holy paladin and almost exclusively stand at range and never touch crusader strike. I gain my holy power from constant holy shocking and if I need to pump out aoe healing use radiance to gain holy power on demand. Sacred shield does more healing than Eternal Flame on most boss fights and word of glory does less healing than light of dawn (except in rare circumstances where only a few targets are below 100% health) so you use your holy power there. In Cata and before being in melee was beneficial due to the mana return from seal of wisdom but once they got rid of that it no longer made any sense.
now give us Agility on our tier set so we can be loladins again !
i'm really interested in the upcoming raids, because with holy palas being better at melee range, having another melee class with DH and giving hunter an very interesting melee spec.. how will they compense with all those melees? i cant remember a situation in wow when you wanted to have a lot of melees in a bossfight.. the only thing to handle the healpalas is to let them heal the range-camp as mainfocus
+schippes24 My hope is. As it has been since BC. Is that they will experiment with more dynamic raid mechanics. Tailoring encounters with Ranged only effects vs melee only effects. Rather than just Cleave, debuff and don't stand in fire. given the shift in class specs they're going to need to. but that's me being optimistic, overly.
the best thing to do right now is to wait patiently and to hope they've learnt from their mistakes in WoD..
what's next, ranged tanks?
Well in vanilla i played a fire mage as a tank :P
10 years I've mained a holy pala... no more tho fuck that 2h mace
ah, the new holy palas. the main reason why i would play legion
Im glad they are changing holy paladin I might main this healing spec or at least spend a lot of time playing this spec because its really bad in WoD. Glad holy power is out, thing was useless..
+James Madeyski still, hp might be gone but this doesnt really seem more interesting than the wod design. its the same, just without hp..
They should give Holy Paladins something akin to the classic version of the priest's Vampiric Embrace. Make it so they heal with each hit.
+Faolon That's a disc thing now.
some nerfs and buff here and there but in general i think they completely changed our playstyle. And i love it.
Seriously guys if you've been playing as a holadin in hfc you're rotation is shock>judge>flash all the time, plus some light of dawn. That's all your healing rotation. Now in legion things are going to be sooooo different.Finally some versatility on terms of customisation and no more pre-set talent choices.
if you're using light of dawn or judgement at all you're doing it wrong
Nicro328 have u never heard of selfless healer?And also Word of glory's healing isnt worth it when you're playing with selfless healer so...light of dawn does slightly more healing and it's far more usefull.
Orfeas prountzos Not sure why anyone would ever use selfless healer, unless they were trying to increase their e-peen slightly. Eternal Flame is better for progression (coming from a person that healed mythic hfc) as you just leave it on the tank as a HoT and continue to chain Holy Shock and Holy Light. Paladin healing is rather linear, so there shouldn't really be that much of a difference in our rotation. However, I haven't played since November-ish, so I may be outdated with my claims.
This was me at the time though (Holyswag): www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7MbHGJyngDQrBVwA#type=healing
hmm... I know that the difference between eternal flame and SH aint much in terms of hps. But we're still progressing with my guild and when shit happens, a flash of light can save some'1 life when u got even 1 stack of SH. And well you might be overhealing most of the times(it's about 15-20% more overhealing than EF) since u basically crit for 500k with just 1 stack( my best was 2.6m with wings, 3 stacks and vision buff) which is more than 100% of some1's health but it doesnt really matter cause you're mana consuption is down to half and you're also putting shit loads of absorb on everyone.It's basically snipe healing and you can "fill the holes" much faster.
i love the holy pala heal now it looks fun and need someone skill to top the metter
I'm a new player on all Blizzard games. Hearthstone, Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, WoW, Heroes of the Storm. Was looking for new players to play with.
FERAL DRUID!!! FERAL DRUID!!! FERAL DRUID!!! FERAL DRUID!!!
Title is a bit deceiving. I was expecting them to actually heal through melee, but thats only slightly possible with Beacon of the Savior at best.
I...I thought about a melee healer......and now that is a thing?! COOL!
Melee healers aren't that unheard of. Warrior priests, anyone?
a healer that's still stuck with a load of longish cast time direct heals forced to sit in melee and deal with the anti-melee raid designs wow always has? yeah..nothing wrong with that...sigh
+Russell Smith To be fair, that's what holy paladins were for a long time... the switch to them being ranged healers happened in MoP.
+Whitewingdevil Are you on acid? When were they ever melee healers?
byteresistor For literally ALL of Cataclysm, where half our mana return depended on being in melee? And for the majority of WotLK where they stacked in melee to help make ranged mechanics simpler?
that's what I was going to say too ... would be so much better when holypalas could Cast while walking
*****
I thought you were talking about literally melee healers... as in hit stuff to heal... ala fistweaver monks.
Okay. I hate pallies in general, but the term 'melee healer' warms my cockles.
i dunno why. These specs feels like is goin to be a problem a 5 man dungeon if ur party is 1 tank 1 healer and 3 range dps.
Yey, hpally! It will be very fun in pvp
Thanks for the video!
They need a new animation for casting a heal..since you will be swinging on the boss it just looks dumb to put it on your back to cast. Could use the consecration animation and it would look much better. Casting it by raising your hammer instead of the normal casting animation. imo anyway.
"Fistweaving didn't work out."
*Gives holy pallies damage to heal mechanics
I hope he makes an update on the MM hunter update.
Um since it's melee heals now where is rebuke? o.o
I thought divine intervention was removed a LOOOONG time ago?
+Bad Blur It was, but they brought it back and gave it a new (and imho improved) purpose.