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I don't mind the Kelvyn timeline because we see Kirk's dad get whacked by Nero which changes everything. But I disagree with the SNW timeline in 2022 with Khan being a little boy. He should've been shown as a despot developing a way to take over Earth and they should have sent La'an back to the 90s.
You shouldn't have needed to wait until this episode for you to know the truth. It was obvious from the beginning that _'Duhscovery'_ and _'Pretendcard'_ were a separate timeline, just like the Kelvin Timeline, disconnected from the Canon Timeline. When they decided to make _'Fake Trek: So Now What?'_ as its own show, they had an opportunity to be divorced from the other Fake Treks show, ignoring them as if those shows never happened, and be a fresh start solidly connected to the Canon Timeline. They completely wasted that opportunity. All this episode did was confirm what Trekkers thought and that we need to treat SNW as an intentional parody of real Star Trek, like the Lowered Standards cartoon, for there to be any chance of finding the episodes palatable.
@@LPerezDancerI too can accept the Kelvin Timeline because the characters acknowledge in dialogue that they realize they are an alternate version of Kirk, Spock, etc.
@@pauld6967 Yeah, the Pine/Quinto/Urban/Pegg Trek is fine since they clearly explain it with Kirk's dad dying. It's sending La'an back to the 2020s instead of 1980 or 90 like they should have that is just plain stupid. It doesn't matter that we didn't have the eugenics wars during Clinton's presidency! No one named Zefram Cochrane will invent a warp drive in 40 years, so Star Trek is an alternate universe already! Let the eugenics wars stay in the 1990s for goodness sake!
I am a 72 year old great grandmother trekke that just loves to watch any Star Trek. There is nothing wrong with enjoying it for what it is and not trying to make sense of every move. It is just good escapism from all the worldly "stuff" going on all around us. Enjoy it for what it is.
it all depends from the people. many in the geek fandom prefer to make sense of things, because it makes the things more enjoyable when things make sense, when the connections are found, and when a logical timeline can be drawn.
I love that you love and enjoy it (there is no wrong way to enjoy it), but it's not like Star Wars for us. It's not just escapisms for us. We want to know how the universe works....it's more like hard Sci-fi, it's why we buy technical manuals and why want to how things work (the warp drive/transporters etc). It's why some people join clubs and make Star Trek a way of life or spend thousands of dollars on merch or conventions and why we love the actors. It's why a show that only got 3 seasons has endured 50+ years. It's why we want to know everything about how the universe works. It's why we nitpick and why we call out when something doesn't make sense or breaks the universe. For example in Star Wars if the Light Saber suddenly started working like a blaster would you be like thats cool or would you be like that's not right it goes against established rules/canon! It's what Star Trek fans are says with Spock "Strange New Worlds"
I agree. I understand why they want to look for every plot-hole, but always taking the negative approach is quite baffling. Rather than complain how it doesn't make sense, people should try to figure out how it does make sense. Maybe something happened off-screen they just didn't mention, or there's a future plot-point that'll explain it, or maybe some character was actually lying about the whole thing, or mistaken. That could certainly explain it. If you go through life looking for the negative, then you're in for a depressing life.
Well said. I am a trekke as well 61 years old and I have been watching trek all my life. Reading most of the books as well. Man just enjoy the show. If one is not for you look at another. Stop getting hung up on canon. Treks been out for over 50 years things will change. Just like we grow up and change. Embrace the new while still loving ❤️ the old.
Actually restoring the timeline is never 100% successful which was shown in Voyager episode 'Year of Hell'. There can be 98-99% of restoration but if even minor event in the past is changed it may affect the future in the unpredictable way. So it makes sense that after all these episodes in the entire franchise about time travel something in SNW may be not exactly how it was in TOS. This already was an issue with Enterprise series and e.g. Xindi war
that's because you think in terms of one timeline. tng's parallels showed there's billions of concurrent timelines, not just one main with everything else being nonexisting potential, and the guys in voyager's episode were in essence just jumping to other timelines, regardless of what wording they used. in one timeline they would just disappear into another timeline and voyager would keep going normally through a nonexisting former krenim empire, while in another timeline that timeline's voyager would enter the year of hell. so, the prime timeline still exists out there and is fine and dandy, we're just seeing an alternate one, which, considering the quality of writing might be a good thing. another timeline gets all these things, so the prime one is unaffected by them.
I AGREE!!! VOYAGER CHANGED THE TIME LINE!!! In earlier time lines Star Fleet did not have the technology to change much, time can repair itself, but it takes time. Janeway's foe, had the tech and brains to change the time line, maybe they put us back on the correct timeline.
Affirmitive, I concur. Lazy writing and total disconnection of the essence of Trek. They turned Spock into awkward autistic bumbling spectacle of a male. This IS NOT my Spock.🖖
Spock is still young at this point, and he seemed to be surprised when asked what he wanted his "thing" to be. Watch S2E1 for context. I'm sure he'll settle on a different phrase with a bit more experience.
@@christophergaus3996 And now I want to see "Pakled Star Trek:" "Space: The last place to go. These are the voyages of the space ship 'Space Ship.' Its I dunno-how-long mission: to look for things; things that make our ship go; to boldly go where no Pakled has goed before..." 😁
I ve been accepting it as alternative timeline all along. Hopefully it all stays true to the core message of hope for humanity’s future by facing our past mistakes and learning from them and embracing our diversity and sense of community
I just took it to mean that the temporal wars have had an impact. It's still the prime timeline, it's just a little more malleable. It's just taking what Berman started, and saying "yeah, this is why when Voyager or DS9 had episodes set in the 90s or 2000s, there's no mention of the eugenics wars."
I mean if the Botany Bay launched in 2046 instead of 1996 that would also mean the ship could be slightly faster due to a better engine and could still be found in the exact same spot in 2267. And/or maybe it was slowed down in 2150's in a region of space by a comet or gravitational field that wouldn't be there in 2200 when the Botany Bay passes that area in the new timeline. (Or because it was in an area later, there is something that can accelerate it that it didn't encounter the first time around). Like the difference between having sex 3 days before ovulation and hours before it means the difference between a boy and a girl.
Carrying out the butterfly effect a bit further, because Space Seed no longer happens, ST II through IV don't happen, thus the Earth gets destroyed by that big probe comes a' callin', because Kirk & Co. aren't in a position to go back in time to get some humpback whales to bring back. Congrats, Akiva! You just killed Star Trek!
They of course have a problem that they still wrote themselves in a corner that certain events can have happened & others WILL happen eventually. Things that have already happened: - Enterprise I believe still is the primary connection to the timeline, though certain events may not happen as indicated, like the Klingon head ridge episodes. - Robert April being the first Captain of the Enterprise circa TAS - Pike visiting Talos IV in 2254 - Pike visiting Rigel VII (based on this week's SNW episode) - Kirk being a Lieutenant on the USS Farragut Things that will eventually happen - Pike being promoted to Fleet Captain & moving on from Enterprise's Captain - Pike's accident which results in him being disfigured & stuck in the chair - Spock at some point becoming a diplomat, as seen in the 32nd century archives It's definitely a tough corner that they've written themselves into so they either have to say things will still happen as they should or in a similar fashion if they don't line up exactly.
This was addressed in TNG episode "Parallels" too when Worf was hopping through alternate timelines. Star Trek has always had alternate timelines, and just as many in-universe inconsistencies to go with them. It had a "multiverse" before Marvel made it the focal idea behind the MCU.
Perfect, PERFECT exampe of my analysis. In the uni's Worf jumped in, SF and the Enterprise were better, stronger, than the last. By trying to destroy things, which is a good plot twist, if you understand time travel, things tend to get stronger, better.
@@tedpronj'm more a bubble off time split thing. For every yes there is a no and for every no the is a yes. But I've added to that since. Stuff these writers never would thought of. All these dumb mofos no how to is play off of what others have done. Same dumb BS they've done in the music industry. Alter someone else stuff to says it's there own. Lazy is all I can say they are.
Yes, TNG Parallels is about separate quantum realities, literally parallel universes that normally don't affect one another. SNW S2E3 is about time travel within one universe, changing events of the past to change the ensuing time line within that same universe.
@@chrisschembari2486 That's one of the biggest inconsistencies. Sometimes time travel only affects its specific quantum universe, sometimes it makes a new one. If the Many Worlds theory is correct, then each time time travel happens, it makes a new reality and the original is unchanged. However, a time traveler would be bound to the new timeline they created so from their perspective they changed the past when in actuality the original timeline still exists, thus the infinite quantum realties.
the last part of the Star Trek slogan should be chaged to "to boldly go where no PRODUCERS has gone before" and specifically for the latest series "to BALDLY go where no producers has gone before."
OP is just salty about growing older in the real world and star trek moving time forward again to deal with that. It's not like the dates for the war can't just jump around and people wouldn't even notice the change in the universe, because that's how altering the past would affect the future.
That was my initial thought too, but as mentioned, it means that the Botany Bay would have to be travelling faster to meet with the TOS Ent at the same location, or would arrive 30 years later, so after TWOK.
@@ianmacfarlaine The Botany Bay wasn't _flying through space_ when the Enterprise found it; it was drifting. We don't know how long it had been drifting; but it could easily have been for a century or more. If it was 30 years or longer, then pushing Khan's pre-23rd century life forward by 30 years would merely mean that it would have been drifting for 30 years less when Kirk found it. Alternately, pushing the Eugenics Wars forward by 30 years ought to have pushed the _entire timeline_ forward by 30 years; so Wrath of Khan would have happened 30 years later.
@@dataweaver It would have only changed Earth by 30 years, so all of its interactions with the rest of the galaxy would have different people in different positions and different context, it literally changes everything.
Overjoyed Discovery is an alternate timeline. The forthcoming Academy will have to be in that timeline too. I'd love to just retcon them out of existence. So Strange New Worlds (SNW) will be in the Discovery timeline. Not thrilled about that. There is a Lower Decks / SNW crossover coming. Does that mean Lower Decks is in the Discovery timeline? We've had Riker and the Titan on Lower Decks, and on Picard. Does this mean Picard is in the Discovery timeline? Legacy will be a follow on to Picard, so is it in the Discovery timeline? So will we ever get back to the original timeline? Or will all of us who have watch 600+ hours of Star Trek need to ignore that history to watch the new shows? Instead of retconning Discovery out of existence, they appear to have retconned TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and all of the movies out of existence. I could maybe work thru my grief about losing Star Trek history if the new shows were any good. But they are not. I expect I will not be renewing Paramount+.
@@greybeard5123 Hello, @Grey. Honestly, I would consider "Picard" and "LD" and a future "Legacy" show to be in the same timeline as "TNG" post-"Nemesis." Also, I'm #NotDoneWithParamountPlus, as they are some good contents, including its revivals of "Beavis and Butt-head" and "iCarly."
@@greybeard5123 Honestly, it should have been apparent that Strange New Worlds takes place in the Discovery timeline, since the very first episode they DO mention that the events that take place are the result of Discovery S2's final battle. Plus, Pike, Spock, Una & the Enterprise are also from that point.
I doubt that I can adequately express to you how much I appreciate this video. There are multiple times while watching this video where I felt vindicated by my own thoughts on this matter. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for creating this for so many of us, like-minded Star Trek fans.
Personally, all these "alternate timelines" are just an excuse so they can do whatever they want. It's just a lazy gimmick rather than doing their homework to make sure it fits within the existing story. I tried to watch Discovery and even was interested in the third season as it was kind-of sold as Star Trek: Andromeda, if you get my reference. Unfortunately, the dilithium problem didn't seem to be much of a problem and they put it all back in the box by the end of that season. Therefor, I was done. I couldn't get through the first episode of Strange New Worlds as it was such drek. Star Trek: Picard season three was much better and I have hopes for a spin-off series but I must confess, I have been more disappointed by new Trek than satisfied. So I find myself wondering, that if it even happens, will it just be more of the same crap?
I agree. Anything after Star Trek Enterprise is just lazy garbage. The writing and characters are just horrible compared to the original series. Just because they wear uniforms and have ships that look like Star Trek, doesn't mean it's Star Trek.
They're making sure it fits into what actually happened. Star Trek is supposed to take place in the future, our future. And I don't know if you realize, but there was no eugenics war in the 90s. That's the only real change, the rest of it still matches up with what came before.
@@theblackwidower While I understand that things didn't play out in reality as they did in fiction, it would be simpler to note that the fictional story was obviously not in our timeline. So I stand by my assertion.
@@ajbryan59Agree. Star Trek is not in our reality. TOS and shows that follow are a fiction to our reality. Its been a fiction since and after the 1960s 🙂. Its strange that the showrunner of ST SNWs would even suggest otherwise.
@@theblackwidower Star Trek insider, writer and documentarian: Robert Meyer Burnett last week in a show called: 'Star Trek is literally being erased by unworthy showrunners Robservation's #865' Said: "Star Trek obviously has nothing to do with the real world, nor should it, because it is a fictional TV show.
Okay hearing what the Goldsman gentleman said about Star Trek really burns me. I think it would have been better if he had said that it was in an alternate time line. All the movies, television shows, etc, that use time travel have one direct rule more or less, do not mess with the events that have already happened. The stuff that people have invented because of Star Trek has lead to a great number of things here in the current time line that we are in. The Original Series, Next Generation, Deep Space, NIne, and Voyager no one should ever want to frack around with that. It gives us all hope and something to strive for as an entire race in the future. Will we have get to that "Utopian" future that Gene Rodenberry dreamed up? Who knows, but I would like to think, although we did not have the Eugenics Wars, or World War three yet, there are a lot of things that we have developed upon, and I personally would like to see what else, as a a race, that we can come up with. Heck, they just recently came up with cold fusion, well they came up wit the way that the warp core is supposed to operate. I do not know if we will be able to have star ships eventually, but the idea is quite nice. Just like we are waiting for Zephram Cochrane to be born and our first encounter with "The Vulcans" or whatever alien race may want to come by and give us a chance and help us develop the technology to go further into space. Again, will we get there? I am not sure. But the idea and the hope that those ideas of given us, the hope that all of us as fans can hold on to is still there. That we hopefully can explore strange, new worlds, seek out new lives and new civilizations, someday to boldly go where no one has gone before...
The best thing about Star Trek has always been "The Human Element". If they just turn it into another "action" series or film, like the rest of the fast, loud, flashy, boring drivel that's showing at theaters today, I'll be content to watch the classic series' and movies over and over.
There is a reason for the change: First Contact. Star Trek: Enterprise, Discovery, Strange New Worlds, and Picard are part of the new timeline which took place after First Contact. The XCV-330 from the Motion Picture no longer exists, replaced by the NX-01. Why the NCC-1701 in SNW has some similarities to the NX-01. And to further change the timeline was the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise. So many different alien species have attempted to change Earth's past, now even the Romulans according to the 3rd SNW episode. Romulan Sera went back to 1992 to eliminate Khan according to the old timeline, which has since changed due to the incidents I mentioned. Its why technology in this new timeline is more advanced, having been exposed to future tech (Agent Daniels computer), Borg tech (First Contact and Enterprise), and obviously advancement in our own world. Cochrane saw the Enterprise-E and designed the NX-01 to look like it, goodbye XCV-330! There was no mention of the NX-01 in the original timeline, thats how we know this timeline is different. Theres a video explaining a lot of the changes that have influenced this new timeline.
@@quantisedspace7047 From Star Trek: The Motion Picture, one of the paintings on the wall of the former Enterprises. The XCV-330 was once regarded as "The First Enterprise." Now the NX-01 is considered the first Enterprise. The XCV-330 is technically one of the designs for TOS by Matt Jefferies but they opted to go with his other design, which was the right decision.
@@bobg9922 It even fits that the XCV looked like a Vulcan ship, as the big inspiration would have been the Vulcans. The Enterprise being there, and being a human ship from the future, changed the focus and became the inspiration for the NX01.
Honestly we have to stop making prequels, granted there is a lot of story to work with in the Kirk era but we work ourselves into a hole when trying to make stuff make sense
@12:23 also TNG established multiple universes with that worf episode. I still feel sorry for the universe where the borg destroys starfleet, that riker didnt deserve that.
Can you even imagine Nimoy's Spock telling Mr Sulu to "Make the ship go, now" in classic Star Trek. It could have been possible if there had been an episode where the crew were inadvertently infected with some kind of 'neanderthal syndrome'
Yes, I do. For the whole of TOS, we saw few other Vulcans and were led to believe that 'all Vulcans are logical'. Yet, we have seen embittered murderous Vulcans (DS9), Vulcan terrorists (ENT), that T'Pring worked with Vulcan criminals, that Vulcans developed an attachment 8:30 to Earth (Carbon Creek), that Vulcans were politically motivated (Broken Bow), that there are Vulcan schools bully, Vulcans in secure psych establishments. All this led me many years ago to understand that Vulcans were just as multifaceted as humans and 'logic' was just one aspect to their character and that it wasn't shared by all Vulcans. The issue is that Spock was a hybrid, not a pure Vulcan. His time under Kirk was him overcompensating for his fitting in in neither the human world, nor the Vulcan world, and he chose the 'logic' route to achieve this. Something that he failed to do ultimately at the Kohlinar proceedings between TOS and TMP.
Messing with the timeline, would certainly explain what is happening to strange new worlds. Where Spock is apologizing every 60 seconds or he has to go to 4 female crew and ask their advice to be more vulcan as they offend him to his face. In this timeline its ok for officers to have a fit on the bridge, as the senior officers and ambassador walk in. Because that is so professional
it's the only way to watch this garbage. If you want to that is. We could have had really really good Trek, with an amazing Spock, an interesting story about Pike and Una. Instead we have high school relationships on the starship. Makes you wonder what they can possibly do with Star Trek Academy. lol
It's always been my headcanon that NuTrek was happening in different timelines and just because you go back in time and change something, does not mean that the old timeline gets destroyed. It just goes on without the people that left it, and they are in a new timeline that is growing out of the original, like a tree branch.
that's pretty much how it works. i don't think a timeline would get destroyed, otherwise jarjartrek would destroy the prime timeline in its first movie, but it didn't. there's some claims that there's only one realized timeline, and any others are unrealized, so if the active timeline switches from real trek to stdtrek, it just means real trek's timeline went unrealized, inert, inactive. it's still there, just not active while this one is.
@@user-kc2fu8iw3v Except other Star Trek episodes established that the original timeline does get destroyed. Like Timeless from Star Trek Voyager. Kim specifically says if his plan to change the past did work, he wouldn't be there anymore. I think the Kelvin timeline only exists because the nature of the specific method of time travel caused a fork. However, most forms of time travel erase the original timeline. Either that or Kim was just wrong. Hard to say.
I've been saying this garbage universe is an alternate timeline since Discovery S1. They don't like classic Star Trek, that has been obvious since day one, and this interview where he calls it "silly" is proof. They rebooted the universe with Discovery and pretended like it was canon to the original show to trick fans into watching it. Only now do they openly admit the classics were "silly" and that they are actively retconning it to fit their own vision. Which should have been obvious from Discovery S1E1. Discovery, and all Trek made from 2017-Present, is an alternate timeline. Period. End of story.
They should do their homework with the original canon. Remember how in "Journey to Babel" that Sarek had disapproved of Spock going to Starfleet Academy? And then at the end of Star Trek IV they had a rapprochement about it? That takes serious writing. The result is so satisfying.
I just assumed the older Gorn like the Captain that Kirk fought were stiffer and less agile than the younger less scared and arthritic Gorn Captains and crew. So Kirk mostly lucked out in having to fight this particular Gorn whose leathery skin is tough but less bendy from neutron enbrittlement, some other type of radiation exposure or it could also be a natural product of their ageing process. As for the rest I'll just take a wait and see while enjoying it in the moment outlook as long as they can continue to put out the good Star Trek as they have done so far
To me, nuTrek has always been alternate timeline stuff. After all, Star Trek was revived before CBS and Paramount merged again, so the 25% difference rule was in place (so the new folks could make money off of selling their own merch). I just wish the nuTrek folks would have come out at the start and said, "We are rebooting the franchise." But instead, they wanted to insist that their rubbish was canon. Heck, they still do. Anyway, thanks for the video.
Simple fix....remember in the Season 5 Episode 24 "Relativity," Temporal Agents fix the timeline, basically will go back to clean it once they found out where Braxton originally hid the bomb he placed on Voyager, so when I watched this Episode with La'an, Temporal Agents were looking for the person who has been trying to kill Khan at varies points in time, even to the point that they changed when Khan would be born. Somewhat like the Terminator Franchise, mainly between 1-3. In Terminator 2, Sarah Connor managed to stop Skynet, but As the Romulan Temporal Agent pointed out time likes to push back, meaning Judgement Day in the Terminator series is going to happen no matter what, so when Sarah Connor prevent Judgement Day from taking place in 1997, as Kyle Reece told Sarah. However, time pushed back and Judgement Day ended up moving forward to 2004, this is when the T-850 tell John Connor, that "Judgment Day is inevitable". So La'an did travel to an alter 2022. Once she learns the identity of the Romulan temporal, then the Temporal Agents from the 29th century can trace back in time to where things were change changing Khan original birth day. Remember, Khan was basically made, so the technology used to make Khan, who should have been born in the 60's, probably was destroyed by the Romulans. However, it only slowed when Khan would actually be born, because his birth is inevitable. The Kirk mentioned changes that La'an realized in his past, so the original point of origin to when the timeline started changing did go further back than 2022, where Khan is a kid, being born around 2000-2002 instead. Lastly, in Voyager 7of9 remember helping the crew of the Relativity as she was protected from the changes in the timeline. I would guess that Temporal agents have some sort of device that keeps them in the Rime timeline, so only them would notice the timelines is being tampered with, which explains why La'an remembers. Not to mention if Khan's date of birth was changed, so would La'an. In the Kirk present timeline, she might not exist yet, or is just a kid. That version of La'an might never have lost her family to the Gorn. Thus, in the end La'an was brought back to the Prime timeline and the Temporal agents went back to fix things further back. For me, since Star Trek canon has established by the 29th century time travel would become common, and would need to be policed, I still think SNW in the same timeline as TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT. An episode might take place in what I would call a temporary timeline, pending fixes Temporal agents make.
In fact, if one wants to tie them all together then you do one episode where John DeLancie as Q pops in to Pike's quarters and straightens everything out!
Ultimately, it was a move done for purposes of story, and I'm OK with that. Even Roddenberry had no issues with retconning; he did it all the time. (Aside from TOS vs movie Klingons, there's other major canon elements like Warp 10 as infinite speed; the TOS Enterprise did Warp 11 to 13 by the 3rd season. The "TNG scale" has been proposed as a retcon, suggesting that high warp speeds were re-scaled. My head canon is that this is the case--in part because Scotty was able to reverse-engineer the work done by the Kelvans and Nomad on the Enterprise engines to get the higher speeds.) I feel the Eugenics Wars novels did a good job fitting Khan into contemporary history, and Enterprise had throw-away lines about believing or not believing it ever happened--and this would fit very well with contemporary "alternative facts" politics. However, I also respect the decision to reposition Khan and the Eugenics Wars instead, though to me that confirms that Disco/Strange New Worlds are a parallel alternate timeline, with events essentially mirroring the TOS/TNG/etc universe but with technical and cosmetic differences. That events in these two timelines continue to mirror each other leading to the same outcome gets into philosophical matters such as destiny and predisposition that are beyond the scope of a simple something to plop into the comments section of a UA-cam video.
I can try to enjoy Strange New Worlds now that it is truly an alternate timeline. But the people running new Star Trek don't even know what a new timeline really means. Brian loves the mention of the Temporal Wars. Finally I strongly dislike Kurtzman and Goldsman. They are incompetent. . I feel this video is too pessimistic . Kurtzman saying its a "course correction" means nothing to me. This whole Kurtzman Trek is an alternate timeline now. I do want to condemn everyone at Secret Hideout.
Akiva Goldsman and company are partaking in some mighty strong mushrooms. They all need to shut up, make the shows and not "Geek-splain" their stuff to the fans. Like you said, we're not stupid. But you're right, the actor playing Kirk now is way more Carey than Shatner.
Well it will happen and i think that is when we will see another tos reboot with all the original cast and the proper white enterprise that's why we have been getting kirk and the rest of the original character's on snw so they can make another show around kirk because its now being made as a alternate timeline so that can do anything to it
Pike maybe not dead, but the accident must still happend. maybe produce will find a way to cure him after that and have a happy ending before he give enterprise to kirk
This is a theory I saw a while back and I believe it makes the most sense. Star trek has 4 distinct main timelines. 1) TOS through Voyager and the 10 movies are its own timeline. Let's call this the "Canon timeline" 2) We know the 3 latest movies create the Kelvin timeline. 3) The mirror universe 4) the "Prime timeline". Kurtzman and Co spent about a year arguing with fans that these shows take place in the "Prime" timeline so I'll give it to them. This Prime timeline is created during the events of First Contact. This brings the borg back to Cochran's time long before earth was ready. This was mentioned in Enterprise. This event also sparked the temporal cold war, resulting in huge tech advancements for 2150s earth. That tech boost is why the ships are SO much bigger, there's holograms 100 years before TNG, and other discrepancies. Also, seeing the temporal cold War wipe out and change history, there's a more pessimistic tone rather than the optimistic one we used to know
Nothing since ENT has been Star Trek -- just bad reboots. It's all been terrible. Secret Hideout are the wrong people to be in charge of this franchise. And it's been obvious since it began.
@@harveytherobot ENT still retained much of Roddenberry's vision for ST, despite some canon violations. What Bad Robot/Secret Hideout did to ST is orders of magnitude worse.
Comic books have been doing this for years...what year was Bruce Wayne born? How long has Captain America been out of the ice? I'm not worried about the years not lining up.
Turns out that Star Trek does hang in a museum in the form of the Enterprise from the original series and it’s the Smithsonian Museum at that! As to whether or not it’s a national treasure, I would humbly suggest you ask the curator responsible for the preservation of the Enterprise. I’m quite certain she would say that it and the show it represents are national treasures. Finally no other show past or present has impacted our society the way that Star Trek has.
This is how I thought of these series ALL ALONG. Knowing other Trekkies are well versed in the ST universe, I assumed we were all watching the new series in the same light. In that way, we can have no problem comparing the new actors playing the characters in a positive light, since they're doing an exemplary job, & trying to honor the legacy of those who were before them. The newbies deserve their own shine, as they work to keep Trek alive. So I can settle for it being an alternative universe and enjoy a window view of how Trek is lived in their world.
There was simply nothing wrong with the 1992 timeline in TOS. Their world was never our world. For instance we didn't have orbital nukes in 1968 as ASSIGNMENT EARTH suggests.
Star Trek has been a new timeline since First Contact. The presence of the Borg in Antarctica and even just Zefram Cochrane's knowledge of the future created a slightly more militarized version of the future.
Did ya forget star trek 4... that should've changed a lot. Giving someone the formula to transparent alaluminum. Bringing two whales and a lady from the 20th century to the 23rd lol... but you're right. People are acting like this is something new....
That is exactly what I thought after I watched this episode too cause sure it’s a great episode however they rewrote the entire Star Trek prime time line so TOS TNG DS9 VOY didn’t happen he erased the whole 50 year legacy of Star Trek and that pisses me off…it’s lazy because they did this so they didn’t have to adhear to canon and this is the problem with prequels…we are all sick of them we need a continuation of the events after nemesis and Picard it has to stop this madness must end
Another way of looking at it is that these events in strange new worlds may or may not culminate in an event that restores the original timeline whether they like it or not. In TNG which is obviously much later, the episode where all of the Enterprise versions from all of the other realities are present and the prime timeline version blows up one of the others could easily deconstruct all of this stuff. That's a good enough reason to not give it much thought. Prime always wins.
The critical question facing every 21st century Trekkie, in my opinion, is why the hell DOES Kirk suddenly resemble Jim Carey? One transporter mishap too many? WHY?
Strange New Worlds in an alternate timeline is cool! It's still a million times better than Discovery. The latter definitely falls/belongs to another timeline. Classifying TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY & ENT as legacy shows is epic!!! Leave them alone haha
@@LoveableNerd Because deep down he knew we'd be having this convo about the prime timeline being ultimately supreme. Can you imagine if it had been otherwise?
Oh come on... Roddenberry rewrote himself so many times already in the 60s and 70s that it's utter BS to talk about a unified "vision". Some of the new stuff is great, some is not. Just like the TOS series and movies...
@@Emanon... The difference is it was ALWAYS the creator of the universe behind it that was able to add new additions to the universe that didn't completely contradict everything else that was did in the same universe. Something you can't really say of the new stuff, and that's even IF you can get past the fact that they contradict the original source material so much when there's LITERAL resources online they can consult that already did all the heavy lifting for them (and they can't even be bothered to check THAT out).
Their is also the hiccup in time with DS9 episode Past Tense , The Eugenics Wars being 1992 -1996 but then Sisko is at the Bell riots in San Francisco in the year 2024. Also Voyager Episode Future’s End when they travel to 1996. And didn't the The Eugenics Wars lead to WW3
I remember you guys did a video 1 year ago that I recently watched that talked about how Star Trek: Enterprise may have secretly rebooted the franchise, which I think you guys should have at least linked if you're going to go & talk shows being alternate timeines. As a reminder of what you guys talked about: - Romulan cloaking technology being first introduced in TOS, but Enterprise showing cloaking Romulan warbirds, which meant that they would have had the power to conquer humans. - You mentioned Spock's line about the space vessels being primitive in design compared to what they know now. - First Contact was the point of this "rebooted timeline" and how Zephram Cochrane spoke of advanced cyborgs from the future but no one believed him until they found the Borg in the episode "Regeneration" - You guys made the point that the Vulcans & likely Romulans as well would have been talking about it & eventually developing technology that would have lead to some kind of defense against them. - You also tie it into the fact that the ships in Discovery/SNW are much bigger than before - You even conclude it by saying that by the time of Picard (granted it was before Picard Season 3 came out) the Federation seemed like it was vastly different from that TNG. I would have thought you'd include this video as part of this discussion as a mention.
That's a really point, we may have to release a master timeline that draws it all together. Thanks! For everyone else: ua-cam.com/video/Wl1MqixaphM/v-deo.html
Alternate timeline is good. Real Star Trek fans can now be contented that all this garbage and bad casting, terrible, immature writing, and actors, producers, and writers who never watched the original series never happened and doesn't matter.
My belief, as well. I call this is Star Trek: Phase II. None of this would have happened if they simply stayed in the 24-25 century or moved forward a few centuries. I have also hated time travel episodes. They give me a headache!
IT DOES MATTER THOUGH. New Fans will make excuses to why the other shows arent like their precious new Version, will become future writers, and kill the franchise more. If you can't respect the previous iteration, YOU SHOULD BE BARRED FROM WRITING FOR IT. Im done with the ****s defending NuTrek.
As convenient as alternative timelines are, it doesn't really permit tarnishing a well established character. Spock is likely to be very "Spock" in timelines that are similar. Either way, the actual stories of Disco and SNW are not very good, or at least nowhere near a proper intellectual/philosophical premise. NuTrek keeps looking more like low brow content.
I agree. In similar time lines and probably some other universes, Spock will have maintained his logic and many of his traits and characteristics. Also agree that much of the story telling is mediocre and add that science content is meagre or absent. It would be nice to go to Strange New Worlds particularly because we don't know how much of Pike's 5 year mission we will get.
Although looking at Wesley and Carrey they do have some similar facial features. The other thing I noticed is how Wesley and Shatner differ in the acting choices. Wesley utilizes his face and downplays his body language (kind of like Carrey without the over the top physical comedy); Shatner plays much of his more dramatic moments with body language and downplays facial acting. I'm not saying Shatner is stone-faced but rather he utilizes body movement over facial acting.
This officially confirms what I have been saying for some time: Discovery and Strange New Worlds are obviously from a parallel universe / timeline. Heck, it can be argued that Picard is also from an alternate timeline. On a side note, while it is true that Star Trek fans are one of the most intelligent fans out there, as well as being inspired to become doctors and engineers, they are not the only ones. I personally know quite a few people who have become doctors and engineers because they watched Babylon 5 and Babylon 5 fans are just as intelligent (and more discriminating) than Star Trek fans. Then again, sci-fi fans as a whole are one of the most intelligent and brilliant people out there, as well as being the most loyal, but I digress. Anyway, I look forward to seeing more of your cool videos! You just earned a new subscriber! 🙂
Plain and simple: Goldsman is merely trying to re-invent the Star Trek franchise to suit his perceptions and ruin everything that came before the various installments before he came along.
As you said, we fans are smart enough to wrap our heads around things, as long as the stories make sense. Did anyone else notice that La'an left a loaded gun on Khan's night stand? The weapon that killed security? Multiple problems with this unforced error.
I noticed this and thought about it, but a disappearing gun would raise questions as well, and Star Fleet doesn't exactly have a great track record for keeping track of equipment. Especially when meeting your homicidal despot ancestor.
Bad continuity combined with lazy writing. Horrible result. And how much "money" did that lavish hotel room cost that Kirk and L'aan stayed in ? must have been a big haul from those Chess games...?
@@TorontoSaurusEx can't see how Kirk got into those chess games in the first place. Who's going to take him on unless he puts his money on the table in the first place, of which he initially had none. The hotel thing is easily explained. He bought some vacuum toobs, made a mnumonic memory filter circuit and hacked the hotel's booking computer. It's quite possible that he didn't realise you needed money or that the hotel room was a high end one. This is probably the same method that caused him to beat the Kobayashi Maru Test, given that he's already a captain in the extension if that timeline, which will now no longer continue.
I would be more comfortable accepting the Kelvin timeline as it is at least connected to the TOS timeline. I will never accept any Kurtzman timeline.... i will never accept as it simply isn't Star Trek. The only way I'd consider watching Trek again is if Matalas does a show set i the TOS universe.
Being a very old fan who witnessed TOS originally broadcast as a child, I can accept Strange New Worlds as Star Trek and good story telling. Note, Star Trek has always had inconsistencies, so I choose to accept that fact and enjoy. Have a more difficult time with Discovery, just did not enjoy most of that offering.
I think it's good to have different timelines. That way as viewers, we can continue to be surprised, as the writers will have open directions to write new stories, that we as viewers don't already know how it's going to end to align with canon. Star Trek is an idea, not a timeline.
No, it's not. It shows the current writers either can't or won't be bound to a single "timeline" because they either can't write consistently or want to hide the fact that they have no long distance legs to stand on. Various classic Trek shows did that for YEARS without too many issues. We're on the THIRD "timeline" at the moment (Prime, JJverse, Nuverse). if this continues on, there's no reason to follow Star Trek anymore, because nothing going forward will ever be consistent. I'm in no mood to follow another half-hashed JJverse effort for several years again, just to have that shelved as well. I also find it interesting that BOTH DISCOVERY and SNW have to rely on "its just another timeline" excuse because they have no clue how to write authentically for Trek shows, when Picard S3 showed it can be done... if you use proper writing talent for it.
Forget Kevin Bacon's 6 degrees of separation: Paul Wesley looks like Jim Carey who played Kirk on a comedy show who also played Andy Kaufman in a move. Andy's character Latka was married to Enid played by Carol Kane and won awards for her performance. And now Carol is a part of Star Trek. What a circle.
The show's current caretakers simply don't care about what has come before enough to respect it in their own work, which makes me question how much of a fan any of them really were. With Terry Matalas, his actual love of the franchise is evident in so many ways in Picard S3. If you love it, it shows. You can claim to be a huge fan all you want, but the evidence is in the product you put out there. With Alex and Akiva, I have a hard time accepting these guys were anything more than casual fans at best, who were interested in the sci-fi adventure aspects and not the deeper meaning and storytelling. The sort of fans who were more interested in The Best of Both Worlds than The Inner Light, or Redemption I and II more than The Measure of a Man. Which is certainly a valid position to be in, if those types of stories are more appealing to you. But as custodian of a franchise, you can have your own preferences, but you need to also understand the full scope and scale of why it is what it is, and the show you make has to transcend your own personal biases and preferences so that it can continue to be what made it so timeless in the first place. And that, I think, is where the current custodians fail. Instead of embracing what Trek is, they're imposing their own personal ideas of what Trek "should" be and thus undermining it entirely. They feel they can do it better, or worse and far more pretentious, they think they can do it "right." But the thing is, it was already "right." That's WHY it became so successful. For all his faults, Rick Berman set aside his own impulses and did his best to make sure Trek stayed Trek. He let guys like Ron Moore and Ira Steven Behr really push those limits sometimes. He should have let Braga push them more in Voyager. Sure, the quality dipped in later years, and that's probably worth its own discussion. I'm just pointing out that these new showrunners are taking something timeless and imposing their own biases on it because they think they can improve upon it. So they get rid of details that they themselves find tedious or unimportant with no regard to what those details might mean to the countless numbers of fans who have lived and breathed the franchise for half a century. They don't feel they should be beholden to those things because they aren't import to THEM. And that has given the subset of fans who feel the same, who don't care about canon, a much louder voice too. Because as I pointed out, not all fans are into those things. I think a majority of us are, but some just don't care. And that is what it is. What bugs me is the "hey, so what, it's just a movie/tv show, who cares if it makes sense, just enjoy it" type of comments, as if expecting a film or television show to have some integrity and internal logic is now somehow regarded as a bad thing. Suddenly it's presumptuous and not okay to have standards. We should all just be perfectly cool with lowering the bar and accepting the drivel or else we may hurt the writer's feelings or something. Well, sorry, but when it comes to Star Trek, I can't just "enjoy it" because someone adds the words "Star Trek" to a terrible script and made it flashy and pretty. For many of us, perhaps most of us, Star Trek has never been a "mindless entertainment" franchise, the sort of thing you can turn your brain off and just enjoy it. In fact, for a lot of us, it is the opposite. We turn our brains on. We want to be engaged in a compelling science-fiction story, we want to debate the moral undertones, the metaphysics of why Data is or isn't "human" and higher concepts like that. Absent that, we at least want to see characters we love and care about being challenged, being heroic, struggling and coming out on top (like Picard S3, for example). What we don't want is for this incredible, unique universe to be reduced to the same kind of nihilistic, gloomy, depressing dystopian sci-fi that is available in far better quality elsewhere. But hey, with Akiva now admitting this is all an AU, that takes the pressure off. Now they can do whatever they want and not have to bother respecting the source material at all. Well and good. That will at least get the Trek fans who care about canon off their backs I guess. Good for them for removing the pressure of having standards and just trying to tell "cool stories." The rest of us can hopefully look forward to Legacy and maybe get a chuckle or two out of SNW in the meantime.
They should have stuck to exploring "strange NEW worlds" instead of pre-discovering things that TOS will discover: Romulans, the Gorn, T'Pring, Khan. Or introducing characters too early: Dr. Christine Chapel came aboard in her nurse capacity to find her long-lost fiance and stayed aboard when she found out he was an android. Kirk said he was the only one who called his brother "Sam." I would be okay with introducing some of the TOS Commodores as captains. Pike could be in a meeting with Wesley, Decker, Mendez, etc. How are they going to get around having a war with the Gorn yet Kirk not know about them? Is some all-powerful being going to stop the war, change the Gorn from fast and furious to slow and clumsy, and purge their memories? I'm enjoying having new Trek, but sometimes it makes my eye twitch.
I actually wished they just said that everything from Discovery was set in a different reality, I think they would have had a little less backlash. I mean Discovery is badly written, no timeline is going to fix that. I think Akiva Goldsman trying to "fix" the timeline is a little silly but that's just my opinion. I think you mentioned this before, maybe if they just rebooted everything, that would give them more options on what they can do.
Except you still have the problem of the bad writers? So what happens if those people are just shuffled over to OTHER Trek shows? All you have is a repeat of the same outcome in another show?
I like when the narrator said that this is a 57 year old legacy, and calling it a piece of priceless art, so be careful with when you take it out for a spin. In future, it might be nice, right up front, that those in charge are planning to show us an alternate reality. Then, there's less resistance to character changes and we, the fans, can say, "Wow, wonder what this reality holds!" Instead of receiving it with a lukewarm reception. At least for me, I am much happier knowing that Discovery & Strange New Worlds happen in a different reality and not the same one as TOS, TNG, DS9, Voy, and Enterprise. Live Long and Prosper, y'all. 😊
ummm, that's a bit like reading the last chapters of a book before the first, isn't it? The whole "coolness" of it is in the wondering, thinking about how this could be, & then the reveal of what it is... Wanting to know the all of it beforehand 💯 takes all the WOW! & pizzazz out of it.. 🤔🧐🤨
@@kiwani4470 No, not like that at all. Just want to know where and when the story is happening. Like in Star Wars, "In a galaxy far, far away..." Makes the story easier to follow, instead of being frustrated that this isn't happening according to previous canon. "Oh look Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore..."
I will say, that was something I appreciated about the 2009 movie and it's sequels. They set out from the start telling us it was an alternative reality. And that gave them their own freedom and their own stakes. It's been embarassing seeing them trying to justify DSC/SNW as legitimate prequels while keeping literally almost nothing consistent with what happens later. I like SNW, but I had to subconsciously place it in it's own timeline/reboot to do so. It's in no way shape or form a prequel to the original Star Trek.
When you see something that is in direct violation to the ST universe, it makes you wince in pain. I know it's just a show but it's a place I go to escape my own world. But, it sticks in your head and it ruins it for you. ST has gone thru great lengths in books, movies, and blogs to explain the ST universe. So, you can't just break it regardless that it is a fantasy show. Kurtzman and Abrams have been extremely disrespectful to the franchise and the fans. They were more interested in injecting their own creative license than understanding the fan base and what will make them buy tickets. Isn't that the real goal? And each movie and show is built upon the last so you can't just cast it off as if each one is independent. Roddenberry wrote the Kahn, Ugenix wars into the timeline back in the 60's. Unfortunately, there was no Kahn/Ugneix wars in the 1990's. I think fans could understand a bypass on that without entering a new universe. They should have just left it alone. But ST has heavily created stories into Kahn since the last year of Enterprise. Is there not enough material in the universe to write about? And alternate timelines don't work either. That's what the Temporal Police are about. A multiverse does give creative freedom, but it will always make fans wince in pain.
Another interesting paradox was that in Space Seed, Mr Spock referred to the Eugenics Wars as being the "last so-called World War" (World War 3) while Mr Data in ST First Contact mentions WW3 as being a Nuclear War that took place a decade before the events of 2063 (Zephram Cochrane's Spaceflight).
The way I’ve always seen it, is that TOS was the timeline, before different crews traveled back in time. Causing ripple effects, through time. And that’s why, everything is different, in our modern Star Trek Shows.
@@SeansModelBuilds2017 that could work as an explanation. some of their technology left over from enterprise episode could be recovered by a group like section 31, and serve to change the fed tech, making it look all different than tos, and maybe that's also why the std starfleet uniforms are different.
These new writers and producers have no idea what Gene Roddenberry envisioned. He saw a future where we outgrow our petty differences. As for the different versions of the timelines perhaps you should look at the episode Parallels. Where Worf moves from one quantum universe to another. There is a theory that when we are face with a choice we don't make one or the other but both. Thus creating two universes from one each with their own quantum frequency.
As a Whovian and a fan of Connie Eillie i understand the Kkan thing. He is an inevitable construct. If we stop him from being here then his existence will simply be reinforced later by Time. He is inevitable for something, so he must be. And as a result Time will make sure his ship WILL be found at it's appropriate time. He may be younger, yes, but he will be there.
I genuinely find it really funny how people come out of the wood work to try and argue against your claim (which you already supported through some facts and they haven't) and try to argue in bad faith
I was alive to watch ToS on our 3-channel B/W TV in the 60s. It would be best if the entire canon were consistent. But... with as much content as exists now (thank you, creatives!!!!!!!!) I can't see how it would be possible to do that. As mentioned in this vid Gene never expected to be creating a franchise. He invented a TV series for its time and place. Canon is bound to twist and turn with that many hours of this amazing astounding storyline. I'm perfectly happy to watch STW as stand alone episodes. I'm loving the return to episodic stories anyway.
Hire a super Star Trek nerd as a consultant. There are guys out there that know pretty much every little trivia about Star Trek possible. They don't have to follow everything he says, but at least they would know what they are changing.
They should have left it alone.....Strange New Worlds had a decent first season and Picard season 3 finally nailed it.....other than that, new trek is terrible.
I took the line a bit differently. Time pushing back means that the timeline is attempting to minimize overall impacts to the timeline itself as a result of time travel. Thus, attempts to prevent Khan's creation are ultimately unsuccessful, merely producing a slight delay with the rest of history molding itself around the alterations (perhaps the Botony Bay ends up being a faster, more advanced ship in order to still reach its destination in time). As for deleting what came before, it wouldn't matter even if that did happen. You could still write stories and content for a "deleted" timeline. In fact, several episodes of Star Trek involve deleting timelines and events, yet we don't pretend those episodes didn't happen. They happened. They just "unhappened".
@@ChibiHoshiDragon Basically. The fact that, even in Tomorrow x3, despite no Federation ever forming, the Enterprise still exists with Kirk a captain says a lot about how much time attempts to resist changes. True the Romulans are in a better position, but from a galaxy wide time based perspective, that's likely an acceptable compromise.
I looked at it this way, when the Next Gen crew went back in time to fight the Borg and help with First Contact, the Enterprise crew changed the timeline forever. That is why suddenly we have the NX class of ships that predates TOS. By having the NX series out in space first, the designs of the ships would change and the backstories of some of the characters would change. I thought these new series could be in another universe because they showed us this in Enterprise when Archer jumps to the TOS universe...any way you slice it, it is Trek and that alone deserves a watch
I don't think the guys in charge of the show were ever really fans of the original. The meme nowadays seems to be for creatives to use the name recognition of older properties to draw the built-in audience, and then go in their own direction that alters/ignores/negates everything that brought that built in audience to the table in the first place. There are too many corrupted shows in which this happened right now to even count. Wheel of Time, Willow, Foundation, Dr Who and more.... And now add Star Trek to the growing list of shows that the "subverting expectations" showrunners keep putting out there while the audiences walk away as the thing becomes unrecognizable.....
There is one key thing people keep forgetting. They do mentioned that records from that area are incomplete. So we assume he is from 1996 but it isn't official because it COULD be variable. The "records" from that era would be mis-transcribed. There was some room for doubt in TOS that 1996 was actually the accurate date. But it also wasn't defined what the current earth date was in TOS either. A number of dates were extrapolated.
I loved the 1st season of “Strange New Worlds” because I felt it captured a lot of the spirit of the original Trek, but season 2 is taking bizarre liberties with story lines and characters the kind of which we might expect in a 4th or 5th season. I could have done with a little more focused hang time with this crew before we got to the animated crossover, the all musical episode and the introduction of Latka’s wife from “Taxi.”
The new timelines of Discovery and Strange New Worlds are additional alternative timelines and universal streams of the Star Trek multiverse just as the Star Trek multiverse is a separate multiversal stream from our universe and multiversal stream even a separate archversal stream within THE OMNIVERSE. I would even say that it is a separate omniversal stream within THE WHOLE OMNIVERSE
I’m watching SNW as a clean slate in a new timeline, with enough familiar elements to make me feel a little nostalgic about it (Robert April was a neat touch). TOS is my Star Trek. I watched it in the 60s when it first aired and there were only three network TV channels, and thanks to reruns could quote any line from any episode by the time I was in junior high. I can still relate almost any event/situation/lesson back to Star Trek - just ask my kids 😂
It would be ok if they just said it's in another timeline instead of telling fans that Discovery and SNW are in the same timeline as TOS when events,people, and other aliens clearly don't match up.
It was clear to me that they are just winging it and this is an alternate timeline. The irritation, for me, is when they bring up the Pike mutilation from TOS when it may not even happen in this show. I don't care anymore. This is Phase II and I don't even know if I want to watch it. The ridiculous redo of Balance of Terror in S1 finally annoyed me sufficiently to make me consider skipping S2.
I had hoped for strange new worlds, I really enjoyed season one But season two is off to a ruff start. I hope it gets better by episode 5 at least. It was really rough trying to get through the last episode. Only three episodes I'm and already with the time travel shenanigans 🤨. Eventually they might have "space" adventures on a "spaceship" in "space" on a show that centered around adventures in space on a spaceship.
Hahaha Yeah more like Sucky Old Worlds... And then of course all they do is denigrate the males. A feminist nightmare. Who the hell they think they are giving Spock his instrument (as if that were more a part of this black earth guy's culture, than from the Vulcans culture whose culture it is from!) It was just minority virtue signaling. Female and Ninority Trek. That's what they should call it.
It had always been confusing that Khan was from 1992 (I thought 1996), but the 23rd century was where TOS took place, 300 not 200 years from now as had been mentioned at least three times, once in the episode Tomorrow is Yesterday, and in the episode Space Seed, and then again in WoK. So seeing a young Khan in 2023, it made more sense. And being due to tampering with the timeline reminds me of the Terminator where they don't stop the problem, but prolong it.
Wesley looks like Jim Carrey crossed with Willem Dafoe. He looks nothing like Shatner or even Pine (who certainly does look like Shatner plenty) and that's my main problem with Wesley. I have no issue with his acting.
While I give them props for keeping my home town of Toronto....Well Toronto and not renaming it to a US city like so many other tv shows and movies have done...From the beginning of New Trek I never believed it was in the Prime Timeline no matter what those morons at Paramount said...The Technology never lined up with TOS..The Technology they showcased here was more in line with Jar Jar`s Kelvin timeline...For all it`s bad press Star Trek Enterprise did more to line up with TOS tech wise then this mess of a show..
my head canon, especially after SNW 2x03, TOS is probably the original "local" timeline, even within TOS, they did slight time-travel changes. TAS, TNG, DS9 and VOY are in those slightly altered timelines and they kept altering it (data visiting guinan, bell, voyagers journey back to earth, etc). ENT is some other timeline. JJ-verse is something else alltogether. PIC happened after the JJ-verse broke away from the TNG-line. discovery + SNW are in a timeline after ENT, therefore the temporal cold war all over again. and where are we? probably a timeline where the romulans got really sneaky and decided to create a TV-series named star trek to whack us really way off. why detonate nuclear reactors, when you can create a TV series. the last thing we need to discuss: was star trek really the idea of gene roddenberry or was it a ploy of a romulan who decided to play the role of spock in the original series? (please, don't take that text overly serious)
@@ThePopcast And Star Trek is just a 400 year old TV show in The Orville universe, our real future timeline. The fact that Gordon Malloy as a teenager created an environmental simulation to put himself in a scenario of that 400 year old TV show proves this.
What do you think of this new Timeline, do you think old Star Trek was "silly"? Reply and lets chat!
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I don't mind the Kelvyn timeline because we see Kirk's dad get whacked by Nero which changes everything. But I disagree with the SNW timeline in 2022 with Khan being a little boy. He should've been shown as a despot developing a way to take over Earth and they should have sent La'an back to the 90s.
You shouldn't have needed to wait until this episode for you to know the truth.
It was obvious from the beginning that _'Duhscovery'_ and _'Pretendcard'_ were a separate timeline, just like the Kelvin Timeline, disconnected from the Canon Timeline.
When they decided to make _'Fake Trek: So Now What?'_ as its own show, they had an opportunity to be divorced from the other Fake Treks show, ignoring them as if those shows never happened, and be a fresh start solidly connected to the Canon Timeline.
They completely wasted that opportunity. All this episode did was confirm what Trekkers thought and that we need to treat SNW as an intentional parody of real Star Trek, like the Lowered Standards cartoon, for there to be any chance of finding the episodes palatable.
@@LPerezDancerI too can accept the Kelvin Timeline because the characters acknowledge in dialogue that they realize they are an alternate version of Kirk, Spock, etc.
@@pauld6967 Yeah, the Pine/Quinto/Urban/Pegg Trek is fine since they clearly explain it with Kirk's dad dying. It's sending La'an back to the 2020s instead of 1980 or 90 like they should have that is just plain stupid. It doesn't matter that we didn't have the eugenics wars during Clinton's presidency! No one named Zefram Cochrane will invent a warp drive in 40 years, so Star Trek is an alternate universe already! Let the eugenics wars stay in the 1990s for goodness sake!
They make Spock look like an idiot and lustful.
Even if it is a different timeline, Vulcans only mate every seven years.
I am a 72 year old great grandmother trekke that just loves to watch any Star Trek. There is nothing wrong with enjoying it for what it is and not trying to make sense of every move. It is just good escapism from all the worldly "stuff" going on all around us. Enjoy it for what it is.
it all depends from the people. many in the geek fandom prefer to make sense of things, because it makes the things more enjoyable when things make sense, when the connections are found, and when a logical timeline can be drawn.
I love that you love and enjoy it (there is no wrong way to enjoy it), but it's not like Star Wars for us. It's not just escapisms for us. We want to know how the universe works....it's more like hard Sci-fi, it's why we buy technical manuals and why want to how things work (the warp drive/transporters etc). It's why some people join clubs and make Star Trek a way of life or spend thousands of dollars on merch or conventions and why we love the actors. It's why a show that only got 3 seasons has endured 50+ years. It's why we want to know everything about how the universe works. It's why we nitpick and why we call out when something doesn't make sense or breaks the universe. For example in Star Wars if the Light Saber suddenly started working like a blaster would you be like thats cool or would you be like that's not right it goes against established rules/canon! It's what Star Trek fans are says with Spock "Strange New Worlds"
I agree. I understand why they want to look for every plot-hole, but always taking the negative approach is quite baffling. Rather than complain how it doesn't make sense, people should try to figure out how it does make sense. Maybe something happened off-screen they just didn't mention, or there's a future plot-point that'll explain it, or maybe some character was actually lying about the whole thing, or mistaken. That could certainly explain it. If you go through life looking for the negative, then you're in for a depressing life.
@@Me.......Agree and well said 🙂.
Well said. I am a trekke as well 61 years old and I have been watching trek all my life. Reading most of the books as well. Man just enjoy the show. If one is not for you look at another. Stop getting hung up on canon. Treks been out for over 50 years things will change. Just like we grow up and change. Embrace the new while still loving ❤️ the old.
Actually restoring the timeline is never 100% successful which was shown in Voyager episode 'Year of Hell'. There can be 98-99% of restoration but if even minor event in the past is changed it may affect the future in the unpredictable way.
So it makes sense that after all these episodes in the entire franchise about time travel something in SNW may be not exactly how it was in TOS. This already was an issue with Enterprise series and e.g. Xindi war
that's because you think in terms of one timeline. tng's parallels showed there's billions of concurrent timelines, not just one main with everything else being nonexisting potential, and the guys in voyager's episode were in essence just jumping to other timelines, regardless of what wording they used. in one timeline they would just disappear into another timeline and voyager would keep going normally through a nonexisting former krenim empire, while in another timeline that timeline's voyager would enter the year of hell. so, the prime timeline still exists out there and is fine and dandy, we're just seeing an alternate one, which, considering the quality of writing might be a good thing. another timeline gets all these things, so the prime one is unaffected by them.
I AGREE!!! VOYAGER CHANGED THE TIME LINE!!! In earlier time lines Star Fleet did not have the technology to change much, time can repair itself, but it takes time. Janeway's foe, had the tech and brains to change the time line, maybe they put us back on the correct timeline.
Spock would not say: "make ship go now". He is supposed to say: "Initiate!"
Affirmitive, I concur.
Lazy writing and total disconnection of the essence of Trek.
They turned Spock into awkward autistic bumbling spectacle of a male.
This IS NOT my Spock.🖖
Spock is still young at this point, and he seemed to be surprised when asked what he wanted his "thing" to be. Watch S2E1 for context. I'm sure he'll settle on a different phrase with a bit more experience.
Pakled Spock would say "make ship go now."
Vulcan Spock...no.
Half Vulcan, half human Spock...maybe. 😉😁
@@willmfranklol, Pakled Spock
@@christophergaus3996 And now I want to see "Pakled Star Trek:"
"Space: The last place to go. These are the voyages of the space ship 'Space Ship.' Its I dunno-how-long mission: to look for things; things that make our ship go; to boldly go where no Pakled has goed before..." 😁
I ve been accepting it as alternative timeline all along.
Hopefully it all stays true to the core message of hope for humanity’s future by facing our past mistakes and learning from them and embracing our diversity and sense of community
I just took it to mean that the temporal wars have had an impact. It's still the prime timeline, it's just a little more malleable. It's just taking what Berman started, and saying "yeah, this is why when Voyager or DS9 had episodes set in the 90s or 2000s, there's no mention of the eugenics wars."
Good point, Janeway never said, Khan is now currently ruling half the world when she travelled back to 1995
I mean if the Botany Bay launched in 2046 instead of 1996 that would also mean the ship could be slightly faster due to a better engine and could still be found in the exact same spot in 2267. And/or maybe it was slowed down in 2150's in a region of space by a comet or gravitational field that wouldn't be there in 2200 when the Botany Bay passes that area in the new timeline. (Or because it was in an area later, there is something that can accelerate it that it didn't encounter the first time around).
Like the difference between having sex 3 days before ovulation and hours before it means the difference between a boy and a girl.
Carrying out the butterfly effect a bit further, because Space Seed no longer happens, ST II through IV don't happen, thus the Earth gets destroyed by that big probe comes a' callin', because Kirk & Co. aren't in a position to go back in time to get some humpback whales to bring back.
Congrats, Akiva! You just killed Star Trek!
They of course have a problem that they still wrote themselves in a corner that certain events can have happened & others WILL happen eventually.
Things that have already happened:
- Enterprise I believe still is the primary connection to the timeline, though certain events may not happen as indicated, like the Klingon head ridge episodes.
- Robert April being the first Captain of the Enterprise circa TAS
- Pike visiting Talos IV in 2254
- Pike visiting Rigel VII (based on this week's SNW episode)
- Kirk being a Lieutenant on the USS Farragut
Things that will eventually happen
- Pike being promoted to Fleet Captain & moving on from Enterprise's Captain
- Pike's accident which results in him being disfigured & stuck in the chair
- Spock at some point becoming a diplomat, as seen in the 32nd century archives
It's definitely a tough corner that they've written themselves into so they either have to say things will still happen as they should or in a similar fashion if they don't line up exactly.
This was addressed in TNG episode "Parallels" too when Worf was hopping through alternate timelines. Star Trek has always had alternate timelines, and just as many in-universe inconsistencies to go with them. It had a "multiverse" before Marvel made it the focal idea behind the MCU.
This is based on different types of quantum realities.
Perfect, PERFECT exampe of my analysis. In the uni's Worf jumped in, SF and the Enterprise were better, stronger, than the last. By trying to destroy things, which is a good plot twist, if you understand time travel, things tend to get stronger, better.
@@tedpronj'm more a bubble off time split thing. For every yes there is a no and for every no the is a yes. But I've added to that since. Stuff these writers never would thought of. All these dumb mofos no how to is play off of what others have done. Same dumb BS they've done in the music industry. Alter someone else stuff to says it's there own. Lazy is all I can say they are.
Yes, TNG Parallels is about separate quantum realities, literally parallel universes that normally don't affect one another. SNW S2E3 is about time travel within one universe, changing events of the past to change the ensuing time line within that same universe.
@@chrisschembari2486 That's one of the biggest inconsistencies. Sometimes time travel only affects its specific quantum universe, sometimes it makes a new one. If the Many Worlds theory is correct, then each time time travel happens, it makes a new reality and the original is unchanged. However, a time traveler would be bound to the new timeline they created so from their perspective they changed the past when in actuality the original timeline still exists, thus the infinite quantum realties.
the last part of the Star Trek slogan should be chaged to "to boldly go where no PRODUCERS has gone before" and specifically for the latest series "to BALDLY go where no producers has gone before."
Pushing Khan's pre-23rd century life forward doesn't mean that you have to push his arrival in the 23rd century forward.
OP is just salty about growing older in the real world and star trek moving time forward again to deal with that. It's not like the dates for the war can't just jump around and people wouldn't even notice the change in the universe, because that's how altering the past would affect the future.
That was my initial thought too, but as mentioned, it means that the Botany Bay would have to be travelling faster to meet with the TOS Ent at the same location, or would arrive 30 years later, so after TWOK.
@@ianmacfarlaine The Botany Bay wasn't _flying through space_ when the Enterprise found it; it was drifting. We don't know how long it had been drifting; but it could easily have been for a century or more. If it was 30 years or longer, then pushing Khan's pre-23rd century life forward by 30 years would merely mean that it would have been drifting for 30 years less when Kirk found it.
Alternately, pushing the Eugenics Wars forward by 30 years ought to have pushed the _entire timeline_ forward by 30 years; so Wrath of Khan would have happened 30 years later.
I agree, but what will the DY-100 sleeper ship look like or be capable of?
@@dataweaver It would have only changed Earth by 30 years, so all of its interactions with the rest of the galaxy would have different people in different positions and different context, it literally changes everything.
Eh, I'm fine with "Discovery" and "Strange New Worlds" set in a different timeline.
Overjoyed Discovery is an alternate timeline. The forthcoming Academy will have to be in that timeline too. I'd love to just retcon them out of existence.
So Strange New Worlds (SNW) will be in the Discovery timeline. Not thrilled about that. There is a Lower Decks / SNW crossover coming. Does that mean Lower Decks is in the Discovery timeline? We've had Riker and the Titan on Lower Decks, and on Picard. Does this mean Picard is in the Discovery timeline? Legacy will be a follow on to Picard, so is it in the Discovery timeline?
So will we ever get back to the original timeline? Or will all of us who have watch 600+ hours of Star Trek need to ignore that history to watch the new shows?
Instead of retconning Discovery out of existence, they appear to have retconned TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and all of the movies out of existence.
I could maybe work thru my grief about losing Star Trek history if the new shows were any good. But they are not. I expect I will not be renewing Paramount+.
@@greybeard5123 Hello, @Grey. Honestly, I would consider "Picard" and "LD" and a future "Legacy" show to be in the same timeline as "TNG" post-"Nemesis." Also, I'm #NotDoneWithParamountPlus, as they are some good contents, including its revivals of "Beavis and Butt-head" and "iCarly."
Same here 💯
@@greybeard5123 Honestly, it should have been apparent that Strange New Worlds takes place in the Discovery timeline, since the very first episode they DO mention that the events that take place are the result of Discovery S2's final battle. Plus, Pike, Spock, Una & the Enterprise are also from that point.
@@vegeta50024 Yeah. I don't think there is any way to recover from the damage Discovery did to continuity.
The USS New Jersey in the fleet museum helped settle this alternate reality mess for me.
Haha. I have a feeling that it was a subtle middle finger to Akiva from Matalas.
@@Anth230 it felt like it as well.
@@Robman0908 I doubt either of them cared in the slightest. But hey, if you're petty enough for that...go for it.
I doubt that I can adequately express to you how much I appreciate this video. There are multiple times while watching this video where I felt vindicated by my own thoughts on this matter. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for creating this for so many of us, like-minded Star Trek fans.
Personally, all these "alternate timelines" are just an excuse so they can do whatever they want. It's just a lazy gimmick rather than doing their homework to make sure it fits within the existing story. I tried to watch Discovery and even was interested in the third season as it was kind-of sold as Star Trek: Andromeda, if you get my reference. Unfortunately, the dilithium problem didn't seem to be much of a problem and they put it all back in the box by the end of that season. Therefor, I was done. I couldn't get through the first episode of Strange New Worlds as it was such drek. Star Trek: Picard season three was much better and I have hopes for a spin-off series but I must confess, I have been more disappointed by new Trek than satisfied. So I find myself wondering, that if it even happens, will it just be more of the same crap?
I agree. Anything after Star Trek Enterprise is just lazy garbage. The writing and characters are just horrible compared to the original series. Just because they wear uniforms and have ships that look like Star Trek, doesn't mean it's Star Trek.
They're making sure it fits into what actually happened. Star Trek is supposed to take place in the future, our future. And I don't know if you realize, but there was no eugenics war in the 90s.
That's the only real change, the rest of it still matches up with what came before.
@@theblackwidower While I understand that things didn't play out in reality as they did in fiction, it would be simpler to note that the fictional story was obviously not in our timeline. So I stand by my assertion.
@@ajbryan59Agree. Star Trek is not in our reality. TOS and shows that follow are a fiction to our reality. Its been a fiction since and after the 1960s 🙂. Its strange that the showrunner of ST SNWs would even suggest otherwise.
@@theblackwidower Star Trek insider, writer and documentarian: Robert Meyer Burnett last week in a show called: 'Star Trek is literally being erased by unworthy showrunners Robservation's #865'
Said: "Star Trek obviously has nothing to do with the real world, nor should it, because it is a fictional TV show.
Okay hearing what the Goldsman gentleman said about Star Trek really burns me. I think it would have been better if he had said that it was in an alternate time line. All the movies, television shows, etc, that use time travel have one direct rule more or less, do not mess with the events that have already happened. The stuff that people have invented because of Star Trek has lead to a great number of things here in the current time line that we are in. The Original Series, Next Generation, Deep Space, NIne, and Voyager no one should ever want to frack around with that. It gives us all hope and something to strive for as an entire race in the future. Will we have get to that "Utopian" future that Gene Rodenberry dreamed up? Who knows, but I would like to think, although we did not have the Eugenics Wars, or World War three yet, there are a lot of things that we have developed upon, and I personally would like to see what else, as a a race, that we can come up with. Heck, they just recently came up with cold fusion, well they came up wit the way that the warp core is supposed to operate. I do not know if we will be able to have star ships eventually, but the idea is quite nice. Just like we are waiting for Zephram Cochrane to be born and our first encounter with "The Vulcans" or whatever alien race may want to come by and give us a chance and help us develop the technology to go further into space. Again, will we get there? I am not sure. But the idea and the hope that those ideas of given us, the hope that all of us as fans can hold on to is still there. That we hopefully can explore strange, new worlds, seek out new lives and new civilizations, someday to boldly go where no one has gone before...
The best thing about Star Trek has always been "The Human Element". If they just turn it into another "action" series or film, like the rest of the fast, loud, flashy, boring drivel that's showing at theaters today, I'll be content to watch the classic series' and movies over and over.
There is a reason for the change: First Contact. Star Trek: Enterprise, Discovery, Strange New Worlds, and Picard are part of the new timeline which took place after First Contact. The XCV-330 from the Motion Picture no longer exists, replaced by the NX-01. Why the NCC-1701 in SNW has some similarities to the NX-01. And to further change the timeline was the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise. So many different alien species have attempted to change Earth's past, now even the Romulans according to the 3rd SNW episode. Romulan Sera went back to 1992 to eliminate Khan according to the old timeline, which has since changed due to the incidents I mentioned. Its why technology in this new timeline is more advanced, having been exposed to future tech (Agent Daniels computer), Borg tech (First Contact and Enterprise), and obviously advancement in our own world. Cochrane saw the Enterprise-E and designed the NX-01 to look like it, goodbye XCV-330! There was no mention of the NX-01 in the original timeline, thats how we know this timeline is different. Theres a video explaining a lot of the changes that have influenced this new timeline.
Bingo! A very consistent explanation for the new Star Trek timeline based on what we have seen on the shows and movies. Good job.
Where does this XCV-330 come from ?
@@quantisedspace7047 From Star Trek: The Motion Picture, one of the paintings on the wall of the former Enterprises. The XCV-330 was once regarded as "The First Enterprise." Now the NX-01 is considered the first Enterprise. The XCV-330 is technically one of the designs for TOS by Matt Jefferies but they opted to go with his other design, which was the right decision.
@@quantisedspace7047 XCV-330 was the original version and design of the NX enterprise prior to Star Trek First Contact changing the timeline
@@bobg9922 It even fits that the XCV looked like a Vulcan ship, as the big inspiration would have been the Vulcans. The Enterprise being there, and being a human ship from the future, changed the focus and became the inspiration for the NX01.
Honestly we have to stop making prequels, granted there is a lot of story to work with in the Kirk era but we work ourselves into a hole when trying to make stuff make sense
@12:23 also TNG established multiple universes with that worf episode. I still feel sorry for the universe where the borg destroys starfleet, that riker didnt deserve that.
Can you even imagine Nimoy's Spock telling Mr Sulu to "Make the ship go, now" in classic Star Trek. It could have been possible if there had been an episode where the crew were inadvertently infected with some kind of 'neanderthal syndrome'
Character-cide. They killed his Vulcan-ness and turned him into a pathetic misfit.
Yes, I do. For the whole of TOS, we saw few other Vulcans and were led to believe that 'all Vulcans are logical'.
Yet, we have seen embittered murderous Vulcans (DS9), Vulcan terrorists (ENT), that T'Pring worked with Vulcan criminals, that Vulcans developed an attachment 8:30 to Earth (Carbon Creek), that Vulcans were politically motivated (Broken Bow), that there are Vulcan schools bully, Vulcans in secure psych establishments.
All this led me many years ago to understand that Vulcans were just as multifaceted as humans and 'logic' was just one aspect to their character and that it wasn't shared by all Vulcans. The issue is that Spock was a hybrid, not a pure Vulcan. His time under Kirk was him overcompensating for his fitting in in neither the human world, nor the Vulcan world, and he chose the 'logic' route to achieve this. Something that he failed to do ultimately at the Kohlinar proceedings between TOS and TMP.
Messing with the timeline, would certainly explain what is happening to strange new worlds. Where Spock is apologizing every 60 seconds or he has to go to 4 female crew and ask their advice to be more vulcan as they offend him to his face. In this timeline its ok for officers to have a fit on the bridge, as the senior officers and ambassador walk in. Because that is so professional
it's the only way to watch this garbage. If you want to that is. We could have had really really good Trek, with an amazing Spock, an interesting story about Pike and Una. Instead we have high school relationships on the starship. Makes you wonder what they can possibly do with Star Trek Academy. lol
This all stems from ENT and the Temporal Cold War, right up to Braga and Coto saying Future Guy was going to be revealed to be a Romulan
As a long time comic book fan, I'd be perfectly comfortable with a sliding timeline.
It's always been my headcanon that NuTrek was happening in different timelines and just because you go back in time and change something, does not mean that the old timeline gets destroyed. It just goes on without the people that left it, and they are in a new timeline that is growing out of the original, like a tree branch.
that's pretty much how it works. i don't think a timeline would get destroyed, otherwise jarjartrek would destroy the prime timeline in its first movie, but it didn't. there's some claims that there's only one realized timeline, and any others are unrealized, so if the active timeline switches from real trek to stdtrek, it just means real trek's timeline went unrealized, inert, inactive. it's still there, just not active while this one is.
@@user-kc2fu8iw3v Except other Star Trek episodes established that the original timeline does get destroyed. Like Timeless from Star Trek Voyager. Kim specifically says if his plan to change the past did work, he wouldn't be there anymore.
I think the Kelvin timeline only exists because the nature of the specific method of time travel caused a fork. However, most forms of time travel erase the original timeline.
Either that or Kim was just wrong. Hard to say.
@@theblackwidower They've been inconsistent on this, which makes sense when realizing this all just fiction.
@@MikeD_ Yeah, but these two dudes just can't live and let live. Fuck'em! 🤬Unsubscribed!👎Thumbs Down!
I'm just wondering when strange new worlds writers are going to stop ripping off all other star trek episodes
I've been saying this garbage universe is an alternate timeline since Discovery S1. They don't like classic Star Trek, that has been obvious since day one, and this interview where he calls it "silly" is proof. They rebooted the universe with Discovery and pretended like it was canon to the original show to trick fans into watching it. Only now do they openly admit the classics were "silly" and that they are actively retconning it to fit their own vision. Which should have been obvious from Discovery S1E1.
Discovery, and all Trek made from 2017-Present, is an alternate timeline. Period. End of story.
They should do their homework with the original canon. Remember how in "Journey to Babel" that Sarek had disapproved of Spock going to Starfleet Academy? And then at the end of Star Trek IV they had a rapprochement about it? That takes serious writing. The result is so satisfying.
I just assumed the older Gorn like the Captain that Kirk fought were stiffer and less agile than the younger less scared and arthritic Gorn Captains and crew. So Kirk mostly lucked out in having to fight this particular Gorn whose leathery skin is tough but less bendy from neutron enbrittlement, some other type of radiation exposure or it could also be a natural product of their ageing process. As for the rest I'll just take a wait and see while enjoying it in the moment outlook as long as they can continue to put out the good Star Trek as they have done so far
I've loved it all from the beginning, and enjoy SNW now. But since when is a season only 10 episodes? By the same math, TOS was over seven seasons!!
If TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise’s timelines were altered, all of us here wouldn’t remember those shows. We’re good. 🎉
To me, nuTrek has always been alternate timeline stuff. After all, Star Trek was revived before CBS and Paramount merged again, so the 25% difference rule was in place (so the new folks could make money off of selling their own merch). I just wish the nuTrek folks would have come out at the start and said, "We are rebooting the franchise." But instead, they wanted to insist that their rubbish was canon. Heck, they still do.
Anyway, thanks for the video.
Thanks brother for the support! I pretty much agree with you and I think it's a massive cop out to not just admit it's a reboot of sorts.
Simple fix....remember in the Season 5 Episode 24 "Relativity," Temporal Agents fix the timeline, basically will go back to clean it once they found out where Braxton originally hid the bomb he placed on Voyager, so when I watched this Episode with La'an, Temporal Agents were looking for the person who has been trying to kill Khan at varies points in time, even to the point that they changed when Khan would be born. Somewhat like the Terminator Franchise, mainly between 1-3. In Terminator 2, Sarah Connor managed to stop Skynet, but As the Romulan Temporal Agent pointed out time likes to push back, meaning Judgement Day in the Terminator series is going to happen no matter what, so when Sarah Connor prevent Judgement Day from taking place in 1997, as Kyle Reece told Sarah. However, time pushed back and Judgement Day ended up moving forward to 2004, this is when the T-850 tell John Connor, that "Judgment Day is inevitable". So La'an did travel to an alter 2022. Once she learns the identity of the Romulan temporal, then the Temporal Agents from the 29th century can trace back in time to where things were change changing Khan original birth day. Remember, Khan was basically made, so the technology used to make Khan, who should have been born in the 60's, probably was destroyed by the Romulans. However, it only slowed when Khan would actually be born, because his birth is inevitable. The Kirk mentioned changes that La'an realized in his past, so the original point of origin to when the timeline started changing did go further back than 2022, where Khan is a kid, being born around 2000-2002 instead. Lastly, in Voyager 7of9 remember helping the crew of the Relativity as she was protected from the changes in the timeline. I would guess that Temporal agents have some sort of device that keeps them in the Rime timeline, so only them would notice the timelines is being tampered with, which explains why La'an remembers. Not to mention if Khan's date of birth was changed, so would La'an. In the Kirk present timeline, she might not exist yet, or is just a kid. That version of La'an might never have lost her family to the Gorn. Thus, in the end La'an was brought back to the Prime timeline and the Temporal agents went back to fix things further back. For me, since Star Trek canon has established by the 29th century time travel would become common, and would need to be policed, I still think SNW in the same timeline as TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT. An episode might take place in what I would call a temporary timeline, pending fixes Temporal agents make.
In fact, if one wants to tie them all together then you do one episode where John DeLancie as Q pops in to Pike's quarters and straightens everything out!
Ultimately, it was a move done for purposes of story, and I'm OK with that. Even Roddenberry had no issues with retconning; he did it all the time. (Aside from TOS vs movie Klingons, there's other major canon elements like Warp 10 as infinite speed; the TOS Enterprise did Warp 11 to 13 by the 3rd season. The "TNG scale" has been proposed as a retcon, suggesting that high warp speeds were re-scaled. My head canon is that this is the case--in part because Scotty was able to reverse-engineer the work done by the Kelvans and Nomad on the Enterprise engines to get the higher speeds.)
I feel the Eugenics Wars novels did a good job fitting Khan into contemporary history, and Enterprise had throw-away lines about believing or not believing it ever happened--and this would fit very well with contemporary "alternative facts" politics. However, I also respect the decision to reposition Khan and the Eugenics Wars instead, though to me that confirms that Disco/Strange New Worlds are a parallel alternate timeline, with events essentially mirroring the TOS/TNG/etc universe but with technical and cosmetic differences.
That events in these two timelines continue to mirror each other leading to the same outcome gets into philosophical matters such as destiny and predisposition that are beyond the scope of a simple something to plop into the comments section of a UA-cam video.
The irony is, we very well may be in a period that future people could refer to as a eugenics war. We call it the culture war.
I can try to enjoy Strange New Worlds now that it is truly an alternate timeline. But the people running new Star Trek don't even know what a new timeline really means. Brian loves the mention of the Temporal Wars. Finally I strongly dislike Kurtzman and Goldsman. They are incompetent. . I feel this video is too pessimistic . Kurtzman saying its a "course correction" means nothing to me. This whole Kurtzman Trek is an alternate timeline now. I do want to condemn everyone at Secret Hideout.
Did you enjoy Picard Season 3 with Terry Matalas as the Showrunner?
@@SeansModelBuilds2017 oh yes, that is my favorite Trek since Voyager 2001. That was a great season and a send off to the TNG crew
Except it's not. This is idiotic drivel. No such alternate timeline is mentioned.
Akiva Goldsman and company are partaking in some mighty strong mushrooms. They all need to shut up, make the shows and not "Geek-splain" their stuff to the fans. Like you said, we're not stupid.
But you're right, the actor playing Kirk now is way more Carey than Shatner.
I love this new series . It’s something that’s really different . And I don’t want to see pike go away .
Well it will happen and i think that is when we will see another tos reboot with all the original cast and the proper white enterprise that's why we have been getting kirk and the rest of the original character's on snw so they can make another show around kirk because its now being made as a alternate timeline so that can do anything to it
I really love this Cast keep it the way it is please thank you 🙏 long live captain, Christopher Pike
Pike maybe not dead, but the accident must still happend. maybe produce will find a way to cure him after that and have a happy ending before he give enterprise to kirk
This is a theory I saw a while back and I believe it makes the most sense. Star trek has 4 distinct main timelines.
1) TOS through Voyager and the 10 movies are its own timeline. Let's call this the "Canon timeline"
2) We know the 3 latest movies create the Kelvin timeline.
3) The mirror universe
4) the "Prime timeline". Kurtzman and Co spent about a year arguing with fans that these shows take place in the "Prime" timeline so I'll give it to them.
This Prime timeline is created during the events of First Contact. This brings the borg back to Cochran's time long before earth was ready. This was mentioned in Enterprise. This event also sparked the temporal cold war, resulting in huge tech advancements for 2150s earth. That tech boost is why the ships are SO much bigger, there's holograms 100 years before TNG, and other discrepancies.
Also, seeing the temporal cold War wipe out and change history, there's a more pessimistic tone rather than the optimistic one we used to know
Nothing since ENT has been Star Trek -- just bad reboots. It's all been terrible. Secret Hideout are the wrong people to be in charge of this franchise. And it's been obvious since it began.
Enterprise is the show that messed with time the most. Blame those writers and producers as well.
@@harveytherobot ENT still retained much of Roddenberry's vision for ST, despite some canon violations. What Bad Robot/Secret Hideout did to ST is orders of magnitude worse.
There’re just turning Star Trek into Star Wars.
@@davidspendlove5900 That was the aim. But they've turned it into badly written Star Wars (just like with Star Wars) .
...so that means that Spock and Chapel can have a story with a happy end, Jim Kirk and La'an too...
Comic books have been doing this for years...what year was Bruce Wayne born? How long has Captain America been out of the ice?
I'm not worried about the years not lining up.
With comics though they DO reset continuity & even can play the trope that different continuiites can be called another universe.
Turns out that Star Trek does hang in a museum in the form of the Enterprise from the original series and it’s the Smithsonian Museum at that! As to whether or not it’s a national treasure, I would humbly suggest you ask the curator responsible for the preservation of the Enterprise. I’m quite certain she would say that it and the show it represents are national treasures. Finally no other show past or present has impacted our society the way that Star Trek has.
This is how I thought of these series ALL ALONG. Knowing other Trekkies are well versed in the ST universe, I assumed we were all watching the new series in the same light. In that way, we can have no problem comparing the new actors playing the characters in a positive light, since they're doing an exemplary job, & trying to honor the legacy of those who were before them. The newbies deserve their own shine, as they work to keep Trek alive. So I can settle for it being an alternative universe and enjoy a window view of how Trek is lived in their world.
There was simply nothing wrong with the 1992 timeline in TOS. Their world was never our world. For instance we didn't have orbital nukes in 1968 as ASSIGNMENT EARTH suggests.
Star Trek has been a new timeline since First Contact. The presence of the Borg in Antarctica and even just Zefram Cochrane's knowledge of the future created a slightly more militarized version of the future.
Did ya forget star trek 4... that should've changed a lot. Giving someone the formula to transparent alaluminum. Bringing two whales and a lady from the 20th century to the 23rd lol... but you're right. People are acting like this is something new....
Hope they make a Star Trek show about the Federation during the Temporal wars ...
That is exactly what I thought after I watched this episode too cause sure it’s a great episode however they rewrote the entire Star Trek prime time line so TOS TNG DS9 VOY didn’t happen he erased the whole 50 year legacy of Star Trek and that pisses me off…it’s lazy because they did this so they didn’t have to adhear to canon and this is the problem with prequels…we are all sick of them we need a continuation of the events after nemesis and Picard it has to stop this madness must end
Another way of looking at it is that these events in strange new worlds may or may not culminate in an event that restores the original timeline whether they like it or not. In TNG which is obviously much later, the episode where all of the Enterprise versions from all of the other realities are present and the prime timeline version blows up one of the others could easily deconstruct all of this stuff. That's a good enough reason to not give it much thought. Prime always wins.
The critical question facing every 21st century Trekkie, in my opinion, is why the hell DOES Kirk suddenly resemble Jim Carey? One transporter mishap too many? WHY?
👍. 🙂.
Strange New Worlds in an alternate timeline is cool! It's still a million times better than Discovery. The latter definitely falls/belongs to another timeline.
Classifying TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY & ENT as legacy shows is epic!!! Leave them alone haha
If you noticed in Picard the rebuilt Enterprise D had the original type viewscreen... the prime timeline wins essentially.
@@BrianTaylor-AlwaysInTao Only because Terry Matalas put his feet down and insisted on consistency with the original TNG aesthetic.
@@LoveableNerd Because deep down he knew we'd be having this convo about the prime timeline being ultimately supreme. Can you imagine if it had been otherwise?
if STD and STP is an alternate time line im fine with it. Because it's NOT my prime time line.. same as kelvin time line
They just want to rewrite Gene Roddenberry’s vision and create something of their own. Something that isn’t Star Trek.
Oh come on... Roddenberry rewrote himself so many times already in the 60s and 70s that it's utter BS to talk about a unified "vision". Some of the new stuff is great, some is not. Just like the TOS series and movies...
@@Emanon... The difference is it was ALWAYS the creator of the universe behind it that was able to add new additions to the universe that didn't completely contradict everything else that was did in the same universe. Something you can't really say of the new stuff, and that's even IF you can get past the fact that they contradict the original source material so much when there's LITERAL resources online they can consult that already did all the heavy lifting for them (and they can't even be bothered to check THAT out).
Their is also the hiccup in time with DS9 episode Past Tense , The Eugenics Wars being 1992 -1996 but then Sisko is at the
Bell riots in San Francisco in the year 2024. Also Voyager Episode Future’s End when they travel to 1996. And didn't the The Eugenics Wars lead to WW3
I remember you guys did a video 1 year ago that I recently watched that talked about how Star Trek: Enterprise may have secretly rebooted the franchise, which I think you guys should have at least linked if you're going to go & talk shows being alternate timeines.
As a reminder of what you guys talked about:
- Romulan cloaking technology being first introduced in TOS, but Enterprise showing cloaking Romulan warbirds, which meant that they would have had the power to conquer humans.
- You mentioned Spock's line about the space vessels being primitive in design compared to what they know now.
- First Contact was the point of this "rebooted timeline" and how Zephram Cochrane spoke of advanced cyborgs from the future but no one believed him until they found the Borg in the episode "Regeneration"
- You guys made the point that the Vulcans & likely Romulans as well would have been talking about it & eventually developing technology that would have lead to some kind of defense against them.
- You also tie it into the fact that the ships in Discovery/SNW are much bigger than before
- You even conclude it by saying that by the time of Picard (granted it was before Picard Season 3 came out) the Federation seemed like it was vastly different from that TNG.
I would have thought you'd include this video as part of this discussion as a mention.
That's a really point, we may have to release a master timeline that draws it all together. Thanks!
For everyone else: ua-cam.com/video/Wl1MqixaphM/v-deo.html
Alternate timeline is good. Real Star Trek fans can now be contented that all this garbage and bad casting, terrible, immature writing, and actors, producers, and writers who never watched the original series never happened and doesn't matter.
My belief, as well. I call this is Star Trek: Phase II. None of this would have happened if they simply stayed in the 24-25 century or moved forward a few centuries. I have also hated time travel episodes. They give me a headache!
IT DOES MATTER THOUGH. New Fans will make excuses to why the other shows arent like their precious new Version, will become future writers, and kill the franchise more. If you can't respect the previous iteration, YOU SHOULD BE BARRED FROM WRITING FOR IT. Im done with the ****s defending NuTrek.
As convenient as alternative timelines are, it doesn't really permit tarnishing a well established character. Spock is likely to be very "Spock" in timelines that are similar.
Either way, the actual stories of Disco and SNW are not very good, or at least nowhere near a proper intellectual/philosophical premise. NuTrek keeps looking more like low brow content.
I agree. In similar time lines and probably some other universes, Spock will have maintained his logic and many of his traits and characteristics. Also agree that much of the story telling is mediocre and add that science content is meagre or absent. It would be nice to go to Strange New Worlds particularly because we don't know how much of Pike's 5 year mission we will get.
The Inner Light is the only episode I can relate with at a personal level.
Although looking at Wesley and Carrey they do have some similar facial features. The other thing I noticed is how Wesley and Shatner differ in the acting choices. Wesley utilizes his face and downplays his body language (kind of like Carrey without the over the top physical comedy); Shatner plays much of his more dramatic moments with body language and downplays facial acting. I'm not saying Shatner is stone-faced but rather he utilizes body movement over facial acting.
This officially confirms what I have been saying for some time: Discovery and Strange New Worlds are obviously from a parallel universe / timeline. Heck, it can be argued that Picard is also from an alternate timeline.
On a side note, while it is true that Star Trek fans are one of the most intelligent fans out there, as well as being inspired to become doctors and engineers, they are not the only ones. I personally know quite a few people who have become doctors and engineers because they watched Babylon 5 and Babylon 5 fans are just as intelligent (and more discriminating) than Star Trek fans. Then again, sci-fi fans as a whole are one of the most intelligent and brilliant people out there, as well as being the most loyal, but I digress.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing more of your cool videos! You just earned a new subscriber! 🙂
Plain and simple: Goldsman is merely trying to re-invent the Star Trek franchise to suit his perceptions and ruin everything that came before the various installments before he came along.
As you said, we fans are smart enough to wrap our heads around things, as long as the stories make sense. Did anyone else notice that La'an left a loaded gun on Khan's night stand? The weapon that killed security? Multiple problems with this unforced error.
Bingo.
I noticed this and thought about it, but a disappearing gun would raise questions as well, and Star Fleet doesn't exactly have a great track record for keeping track of equipment. Especially when meeting your homicidal despot ancestor.
Bad continuity combined with lazy writing.
Horrible result.
And how much "money" did that lavish hotel room cost that Kirk and L'aan stayed in ?
must have been a big haul from those Chess games...?
@@TorontoSaurusEx can't see how Kirk got into those chess games in the first place. Who's going to take him on unless he puts his money on the table in the first place, of which he initially had none.
The hotel thing is easily explained. He bought some vacuum toobs, made a mnumonic memory filter circuit and hacked the hotel's booking computer. It's quite possible that he didn't realise you needed money or that the hotel room was a high end one.
This is probably the same method that caused him to beat the Kobayashi Maru Test, given that he's already a captain in the extension if that timeline, which will now no longer continue.
Yes, for many 😢TOS was inspiration to achieve goals, hope for a more congenial future, and conspire changes for now. It's time has come, and gone.😢
Hi from Italy. Old trekker here (and fanatic niner). I believe this is the best video so far about this question... thanks a lot.
I would be more comfortable accepting the Kelvin timeline as it is at least connected to the TOS timeline.
I will never accept any Kurtzman timeline.... i will never accept as it simply isn't Star Trek.
The only way I'd consider watching Trek again is if Matalas does a show set i the TOS universe.
Being a very old fan who witnessed TOS originally broadcast as a child, I can accept Strange New Worlds as Star Trek and good story telling. Note, Star Trek has always had inconsistencies, so I choose to accept that fact and enjoy. Have a more difficult time with Discovery, just did not enjoy most of that offering.
Kurtzman Trek and " good storytelling" are polar opposites
@@monkeyzorr3090 Really??? It is all about the story telling. I am an old Treker with even an older soul.
I think it's good to have different timelines. That way as viewers, we can continue to be surprised, as the writers will have open directions to write new stories, that we as viewers don't already know how it's going to end to align with canon. Star Trek is an idea, not a timeline.
No, it's not. It shows the current writers either can't or won't be bound to a single "timeline" because they either can't write consistently or want to hide the fact that they have no long distance legs to stand on. Various classic Trek shows did that for YEARS without too many issues. We're on the THIRD "timeline" at the moment (Prime, JJverse, Nuverse). if this continues on, there's no reason to follow Star Trek anymore, because nothing going forward will ever be consistent. I'm in no mood to follow another half-hashed JJverse effort for several years again, just to have that shelved as well.
I also find it interesting that BOTH DISCOVERY and SNW have to rely on "its just another timeline" excuse because they have no clue how to write authentically for Trek shows, when Picard S3 showed it can be done... if you use proper writing talent for it.
@@sigmacademy Picard S3 was garbage
Forget Kevin Bacon's 6 degrees of separation: Paul Wesley looks like Jim Carey who played Kirk on a comedy show who also played Andy Kaufman in a move. Andy's character Latka was married to Enid played by Carol Kane and won awards for her performance. And now Carol is a part of Star Trek. What a circle.
The show's current caretakers simply don't care about what has come before enough to respect it in their own work, which makes me question how much of a fan any of them really were. With Terry Matalas, his actual love of the franchise is evident in so many ways in Picard S3. If you love it, it shows. You can claim to be a huge fan all you want, but the evidence is in the product you put out there. With Alex and Akiva, I have a hard time accepting these guys were anything more than casual fans at best, who were interested in the sci-fi adventure aspects and not the deeper meaning and storytelling. The sort of fans who were more interested in The Best of Both Worlds than The Inner Light, or Redemption I and II more than The Measure of a Man. Which is certainly a valid position to be in, if those types of stories are more appealing to you. But as custodian of a franchise, you can have your own preferences, but you need to also understand the full scope and scale of why it is what it is, and the show you make has to transcend your own personal biases and preferences so that it can continue to be what made it so timeless in the first place. And that, I think, is where the current custodians fail. Instead of embracing what Trek is, they're imposing their own personal ideas of what Trek "should" be and thus undermining it entirely. They feel they can do it better, or worse and far more pretentious, they think they can do it "right." But the thing is, it was already "right." That's WHY it became so successful.
For all his faults, Rick Berman set aside his own impulses and did his best to make sure Trek stayed Trek. He let guys like Ron Moore and Ira Steven Behr really push those limits sometimes. He should have let Braga push them more in Voyager. Sure, the quality dipped in later years, and that's probably worth its own discussion. I'm just pointing out that these new showrunners are taking something timeless and imposing their own biases on it because they think they can improve upon it. So they get rid of details that they themselves find tedious or unimportant with no regard to what those details might mean to the countless numbers of fans who have lived and breathed the franchise for half a century. They don't feel they should be beholden to those things because they aren't import to THEM. And that has given the subset of fans who feel the same, who don't care about canon, a much louder voice too. Because as I pointed out, not all fans are into those things. I think a majority of us are, but some just don't care. And that is what it is.
What bugs me is the "hey, so what, it's just a movie/tv show, who cares if it makes sense, just enjoy it" type of comments, as if expecting a film or television show to have some integrity and internal logic is now somehow regarded as a bad thing. Suddenly it's presumptuous and not okay to have standards. We should all just be perfectly cool with lowering the bar and accepting the drivel or else we may hurt the writer's feelings or something. Well, sorry, but when it comes to Star Trek, I can't just "enjoy it" because someone adds the words "Star Trek" to a terrible script and made it flashy and pretty. For many of us, perhaps most of us, Star Trek has never been a "mindless entertainment" franchise, the sort of thing you can turn your brain off and just enjoy it. In fact, for a lot of us, it is the opposite. We turn our brains on. We want to be engaged in a compelling science-fiction story, we want to debate the moral undertones, the metaphysics of why Data is or isn't "human" and higher concepts like that. Absent that, we at least want to see characters we love and care about being challenged, being heroic, struggling and coming out on top (like Picard S3, for example). What we don't want is for this incredible, unique universe to be reduced to the same kind of nihilistic, gloomy, depressing dystopian sci-fi that is available in far better quality elsewhere.
But hey, with Akiva now admitting this is all an AU, that takes the pressure off. Now they can do whatever they want and not have to bother respecting the source material at all. Well and good. That will at least get the Trek fans who care about canon off their backs I guess. Good for them for removing the pressure of having standards and just trying to tell "cool stories." The rest of us can hopefully look forward to Legacy and maybe get a chuckle or two out of SNW in the meantime.
They should have stuck to exploring "strange NEW worlds" instead of pre-discovering things that TOS will discover: Romulans, the Gorn, T'Pring, Khan. Or introducing characters too early: Dr. Christine Chapel came aboard in her nurse capacity to find her long-lost fiance and stayed aboard when she found out he was an android. Kirk said he was the only one who called his brother "Sam." I would be okay with introducing some of the TOS Commodores as captains. Pike could be in a meeting with Wesley, Decker, Mendez, etc. How are they going to get around having a war with the Gorn yet Kirk not know about them? Is some all-powerful being going to stop the war, change the Gorn from fast and furious to slow and clumsy, and purge their memories? I'm enjoying having new Trek, but sometimes it makes my eye twitch.
Terry Matalas is a true ST fan. Kick the rest out and let MAtalas do his thing.
I actually wished they just said that everything from Discovery was set in a different reality, I think they would have had a little less backlash. I mean Discovery is badly written, no timeline is going to fix that. I think Akiva Goldsman trying to "fix" the timeline is a little silly but that's just my opinion. I think you mentioned this before, maybe if they just rebooted everything, that would give them more options on what they can do.
Except you still have the problem of the bad writers? So what happens if those people are just shuffled over to OTHER Trek shows? All you have is a repeat of the same outcome in another show?
I like when the narrator said that this is a 57 year old legacy, and calling it a piece of priceless art, so be careful with when you take it out for a spin. In future, it might be nice, right up front, that those in charge are planning to show us an alternate reality. Then, there's less resistance to character changes and we, the fans, can say, "Wow, wonder what this reality holds!" Instead of receiving it with a lukewarm reception. At least for me, I am much happier knowing that Discovery & Strange New Worlds happen in a different reality and not the same one as TOS, TNG, DS9, Voy, and Enterprise. Live Long and Prosper, y'all. 😊
ummm, that's a bit like reading the last chapters of a book before the first, isn't it?
The whole "coolness" of it is in the wondering, thinking about how this could be, & then the reveal of what it is...
Wanting to know the all of it beforehand 💯 takes all the WOW! & pizzazz out of it..
🤔🧐🤨
@@kiwani4470 No, not like that at all. Just want to know where and when the story is happening. Like in Star Wars, "In a galaxy far, far away..." Makes the story easier to follow, instead of being frustrated that this isn't happening according to previous canon. "Oh look Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore..."
I think Enterprise with its Xinti war might be a different reality?
I will say, that was something I appreciated about the 2009 movie and it's sequels. They set out from the start telling us it was an alternative reality. And that gave them their own freedom and their own stakes. It's been embarassing seeing them trying to justify DSC/SNW as legitimate prequels while keeping literally almost nothing consistent with what happens later. I like SNW, but I had to subconsciously place it in it's own timeline/reboot to do so. It's in no way shape or form a prequel to the original Star Trek.
@@lancebaylis3169 I totally agree with you! 😊
When you see something that is in direct violation to the ST universe, it makes you wince in pain. I know it's just a show but it's a place I go to escape my own world. But, it sticks in your head and it ruins it for you. ST has gone thru great lengths in books, movies, and blogs to explain the ST universe. So, you can't just break it regardless that it is a fantasy show. Kurtzman and Abrams have been extremely disrespectful to the franchise and the fans. They were more interested in injecting their own creative license than understanding the fan base and what will make them buy tickets. Isn't that the real goal? And each movie and show is built upon the last so you can't just cast it off as if each one is independent. Roddenberry wrote the Kahn, Ugenix wars into the timeline back in the 60's. Unfortunately, there was no Kahn/Ugneix wars in the 1990's. I think fans could understand a bypass on that without entering a new universe. They should have just left it alone. But ST has heavily created stories into Kahn since the last year of Enterprise. Is there not enough material in the universe to write about? And alternate timelines don't work either. That's what the Temporal Police are about. A multiverse does give creative freedom, but it will always make fans wince in pain.
I would love them to continue this time line and just full out reimagine TOS after SNW has finished :D
In my timeline StarTrek ended in 2005. Not sure what all the new noise is.
This has been my headcanon since First Contact dabbled with the past creating the Enterprise timeline
Good point.
Another interesting paradox was that in Space Seed, Mr Spock referred to the Eugenics Wars as being the "last so-called World War" (World War 3) while Mr Data in ST First Contact mentions WW3 as being a Nuclear War that took place a decade before the events of 2063 (Zephram Cochrane's Spaceflight).
The way I’ve always seen it, is that TOS was the timeline, before different crews traveled back in time. Causing ripple effects, through time. And that’s why, everything is different, in our modern Star Trek Shows.
Did it all change after the Borg interfered with First Contact?
@@SeansModelBuilds2017 that could work as an explanation. some of their technology left over from enterprise episode could be recovered by a group like section 31, and serve to change the fed tech, making it look all different than tos, and maybe that's also why the std starfleet uniforms are different.
Yup. It’s not DSC and SNW that started this. ENT is most to blame out of all of the shows.
These new writers and producers have no idea what Gene Roddenberry envisioned. He saw a future where we outgrow our petty differences. As for the different versions of the timelines perhaps you should look at the episode Parallels. Where Worf moves from one quantum universe to another. There is a theory that when we are face with a choice we don't make one or the other but both. Thus creating two universes from one each with their own quantum frequency.
One sticks to cannon, but at the same time, one must not be blinded by it either. It must make sense from cannon, forward to the fans.
Thats the most bs excuse ive ever seen. Respect what came before, OR DONT BOTHER WITH TOUCHING IT.
@@MLPDethDealr32 The middle ground is often preferred. That's where I stand and anyone can agree or disagree with it.
As a Whovian and a fan of Connie Eillie i understand the Kkan thing. He is an inevitable construct. If we stop him from being here then his existence will simply be reinforced later by Time. He is inevitable for something, so he must be. And as a result Time will make sure his ship WILL be found at it's appropriate time. He may be younger, yes, but he will be there.
I genuinely find it really funny how people come out of the wood work to try and argue against your claim (which you already supported through some facts and they haven't) and try to argue in bad faith
I think they don't actually watch the video. I think they see the title and just go straight to the comment section.
I agree
@ThePopcast it gets even funnier when some of your previous videos have some positive things to say about new Trek yet call you a hater
I was alive to watch ToS on our 3-channel B/W TV in the 60s. It would be best if the entire canon were consistent. But... with as much content as exists now (thank you, creatives!!!!!!!!) I can't see how it would be possible to do that. As mentioned in this vid Gene never expected to be creating a franchise. He invented a TV series for its time and place. Canon is bound to twist and turn with that many hours of this amazing astounding storyline. I'm perfectly happy to watch STW as stand alone episodes. I'm loving the return to episodic stories anyway.
Sure there will be some continuity errors after 57 years but Goldsman makes it a f***king sport. 😂
Hire a super Star Trek nerd as a consultant. There are guys out there that know pretty much every little trivia about Star Trek possible. They don't have to follow everything he says, but at least they would know what they are changing.
@@torinju Oh they know. Akiva Goldsman already says they will not adhere to canon....
They should have left it alone.....Strange New Worlds had a decent first season and Picard season 3 finally nailed it.....other than that, new trek is terrible.
I took the line a bit differently. Time pushing back means that the timeline is attempting to minimize overall impacts to the timeline itself as a result of time travel. Thus, attempts to prevent Khan's creation are ultimately unsuccessful, merely producing a slight delay with the rest of history molding itself around the alterations (perhaps the Botony Bay ends up being a faster, more advanced ship in order to still reach its destination in time).
As for deleting what came before, it wouldn't matter even if that did happen. You could still write stories and content for a "deleted" timeline. In fact, several episodes of Star Trek involve deleting timelines and events, yet we don't pretend those episodes didn't happen. They happened. They just "unhappened".
Exactly.
Voyager's "Time and Again" is the PERFECT example of a deleted timeline
@@ChibiHoshiDragon Basically. The fact that, even in Tomorrow x3, despite no Federation ever forming, the Enterprise still exists with Kirk a captain says a lot about how much time attempts to resist changes. True the Romulans are in a better position, but from a galaxy wide time based perspective, that's likely an acceptable compromise.
I looked at it this way, when the Next Gen crew went back in time to fight the Borg and help with First Contact, the Enterprise crew changed the timeline forever. That is why suddenly we have the NX class of ships that predates TOS. By having the NX series out in space first, the designs of the ships would change and the backstories of some of the characters would change. I thought these new series could be in another universe because they showed us this in Enterprise when Archer jumps to the TOS universe...any way you slice it, it is Trek and that alone deserves a watch
I don't think the guys in charge of the show were ever really fans of the original. The meme nowadays seems to be for creatives to use the name recognition of older properties to draw the built-in audience, and then go in their own direction that alters/ignores/negates everything that brought that built in audience to the table in the first place. There are too many corrupted shows in which this happened right now to even count. Wheel of Time, Willow, Foundation, Dr Who and more.... And now add Star Trek to the growing list of shows that the "subverting expectations" showrunners keep putting out there while the audiences walk away as the thing becomes unrecognizable.....
Yup. The truth is they're just lazy hacks clinging onto greatness created by others.
There is one key thing people keep forgetting.
They do mentioned that records from that area are incomplete. So we assume he is from 1996 but it isn't official because it COULD be variable. The "records" from that era would be mis-transcribed. There was some room for doubt in TOS that 1996 was actually the accurate date. But it also wasn't defined what the current earth date was in TOS either. A number of dates were extrapolated.
Exactly. It's just early iteration weirdness.
I loved the 1st season of “Strange New Worlds” because I felt it captured a lot of the spirit of the original Trek, but season 2 is taking bizarre liberties with story lines and characters the kind of which we might expect in a 4th or 5th season. I could have done with a little more focused hang time with this crew before we got to the animated crossover, the all musical episode and the introduction of Latka’s wife from “Taxi.”
Agree. Season 1 made me hopeful of a real ST series, season 2 just made me sad...
The new timelines of Discovery and Strange New Worlds are additional alternative timelines and universal streams of the Star Trek multiverse just as the Star Trek multiverse is a separate multiversal stream from our universe and multiversal stream even a separate archversal stream within THE OMNIVERSE. I would even say that it is a separate omniversal stream within THE WHOLE OMNIVERSE
I’m watching SNW as a clean slate in a new timeline, with enough familiar elements to make me feel a little nostalgic about it (Robert April was a neat touch). TOS is my Star Trek. I watched it in the 60s when it first aired and there were only three network TV channels, and thanks to reruns could quote any line from any episode by the time I was in junior high. I can still relate almost any event/situation/lesson back to Star Trek - just ask my kids 😂
It would be ok if they just said it's in another timeline instead of telling fans that Discovery and SNW are in the same timeline as TOS when events,people, and other aliens clearly don't match up.
@@kal0247 Agreed. It almost felt like it was a “post launch” decision to have it be an alternate timeline.
It was clear to me that they are just winging it and this is an alternate timeline. The irritation, for me, is when they bring up the Pike mutilation from TOS when it may not even happen in this show. I don't care anymore. This is Phase II and I don't even know if I want to watch it. The ridiculous redo of Balance of Terror in S1 finally annoyed me sufficiently to make me consider skipping S2.
I had hoped for strange new worlds, I really enjoyed season one
But season two is off to a ruff start. I hope it gets better by episode 5 at least. It was really rough trying to get through the last episode. Only three episodes I'm and already with the time travel shenanigans 🤨. Eventually they might have "space" adventures on a "spaceship" in "space" on a show that centered around adventures in space on a spaceship.
Hahaha Yeah more like Sucky Old Worlds... And then of course all they do is denigrate the males. A feminist nightmare. Who the hell they think they are giving Spock his instrument (as if that were more a part of this black earth guy's culture, than from the Vulcans culture whose culture it is from!) It was just minority virtue signaling. Female and Ninority Trek. That's what they should call it.
Fun fact, it's space-time, not just space. Both space and time are connected.
It had always been confusing that Khan was from 1992 (I thought 1996), but the 23rd century was where TOS took place, 300 not 200 years from now as had been mentioned at least three times, once in the episode Tomorrow is Yesterday, and in the episode Space Seed, and then again in WoK. So seeing a young Khan in 2023, it made more sense. And being due to tampering with the timeline reminds me of the Terminator where they don't stop the problem, but prolong it.
Am just grateful that they are still making Trek.
Yes, it's called _The Orville_
It always was an alt universe to me, i just filed it under fanfic.
Too late, Alex Klutzman ruined Star Trek at least 4 years ago...
Wesley looks like Jim Carrey crossed with Willem Dafoe. He looks nothing like Shatner or even Pine (who certainly does look like Shatner plenty) and that's my main problem with Wesley. I have no issue with his acting.
While I give them props for keeping my home town of Toronto....Well Toronto and not renaming it to a US city like so many other tv shows and movies have done...From the beginning of New Trek I never believed it was in the Prime Timeline no matter what those morons at Paramount said...The Technology never lined up with TOS..The Technology they showcased here was more in line with Jar Jar`s Kelvin timeline...For all it`s bad press Star Trek Enterprise did more to line up with TOS tech wise then this mess of a show..
That was soon good!!
My feeling is that Strange Worlds is a different time line!!
my head canon, especially after SNW 2x03, TOS is probably the original "local" timeline, even within TOS, they did slight time-travel changes. TAS, TNG, DS9 and VOY are in those slightly altered timelines and they kept altering it (data visiting guinan, bell, voyagers journey back to earth, etc). ENT is some other timeline.
JJ-verse is something else alltogether.
PIC happened after the JJ-verse broke away from the TNG-line.
discovery + SNW are in a timeline after ENT, therefore the temporal cold war all over again.
and where are we? probably a timeline where the romulans got really sneaky and decided to create a TV-series named star trek to whack us really way off. why detonate nuclear reactors, when you can create a TV series. the last thing we need to discuss: was star trek really the idea of gene roddenberry or was it a ploy of a romulan who decided to play the role of spock in the original series?
(please, don't take that text overly serious)
Genius
@@ThePopcast And Star Trek is just a 400 year old TV show in The Orville universe, our real future timeline. The fact that Gordon Malloy as a teenager created an environmental simulation to put himself in a scenario of that 400 year old TV show proves this.