Beanstalk is totally FREE while I work on other projects. Please LIKE, SUB, and all together view/comment the shit out of my youtube channel. Post to forums, Email links to poker friends etc... love, greenbean
Why would you discount KK from his range when villain checks the flop? You think the villain is going to bet into a pre-flop flat caller when he is dominating you with a set of Kings? I don't think so. He wants action, therefore the villain will check the flop to induce you to bet into it. Even if Ace comes on the turn, he's crushing you with a set of Kings
The assumption is the villain is an inexperienced and won't try to trap. The assumption is supported by the 5x opening bet under the gun: He is playing extremely aggressively but like a novice. So, the assumption is that he is going to continue his sheer aggression if his pair seems to hold up because he is not actually putting you on a hand, he's blowing his load out of exuberance about his hand. In my experience, this is most often the case. The inexperienced player is also prone to immediately slow down if you call his "huge bet" because he's going to be playing from fear of cards falling that are higher than his pair. If he is thinking about your hand at all, he's going to assume you have have big paint cards in your hand or a decent sized pair. After all, that huge bet was intended to thin the field down to only the most premium of hands (he doesn't understand your pot odds and +EV).
Although you are correct that it is not wise to eliminate KK from his range, we can at least assume that this player will bet with it a significant portion of the time, so we can reduce the likelihood of KK by a significant amount when trying to read their hand. Another reason we can reduce the likelihood of KK being their holding is called combinatorics. When we see a K on the flop the possible combinations of hole cards that are exactly KK go from 6 to 3, and we must adjust our thinking accordingly. More importantly, if you were to play this hand as if your opponent might have a set of Kings, or any hand that beats your set of 2s, you are probably giving away free money by not maximizing your value. With very few exceptions, you are never wrong to play a set on a dry board as if it were an unbeatable hand. The money you lose the few times that you are beat is pennies next to the money you will leave on the table (or in your opponents stack) if you are not regularly (ie. always) focused on building the largest pot possible when you get a hand this strong. The important thing to remember about this video is that the example is not meant to be an intensive exploration of possible hand ranges; if it were, it could easily run upward of an hour without fully investigating or explaining all possibilities and strategies involved in hand reading. The example is only provided to give an introduction to the process of hand reading, and is only useful if you understand that it is a building block for further thought and exploration on the topic of hand reading. Best of luck to you as you continue to study and play poker. Never stop learning and asking questions. :)
Good basic video. Thank you for making it. Takes us back to basics so we can take another look at our poker foundations and keep in tune with the game. The field is getting tougher every year.
+andrew kelly Yeah, maybe. However, a good way to disguise your set here is to take a pot control line or a line that mimics your whiffed A-high/air hands. So bet flop, check turn to either induce a turn bet from him if he's aggressive or to induce a call on the river if he's a weaker player and can't fold marginal value hands. But if he's a weaker player that doesn't fold at all, you might be able to get 3 streets of value from him.
+Cristian Micu i would only bet this flop with kk if i had the betting lead, otherwise i would check, so it really depends on the situation in my opninion
Villian wont have 9's here because we've classified this player as a beginner amateur, the type of player who only bets 5x on the top 5 hands, eliminating 99 from his range.
Alex Toreli has a similar hand reading technique, he called it "hands filtering" which he narrows down the hand range from preflop to flop to turn n river. However, there is always risk of misreading when U assume Villain can never check with monster hands or bet with no hands (floating U).
This is the basic and elementary introduction to hand range reading. This is the easy level, so to speak. Checking the flop usually means the villain has not hit the flop with a pair. Bluffing , drawing , and trapping belong to another level, or subject matter.[2020]
To be honest, I see novice player who open up with big bets like this do so with AXs all the time because they are looking to pair their A and they like the idea of crushing someone with a dominant flush in the off chance that you make a flush as well. However, most boards and C-bet behavior will allow you to immediately drop the AX from the player's range pretty quickly - unless, in this example, he is playing A9s and he decides that his 9 pair is good enough to continue with. Novice players tend to lose their marbles when they pair the board with anything above a 7 - they don't think for a second about what your hand is and just think they have the hand sewn up at that point - because after all, they have that A on board and an A might fall on the turn or river making them have a "dominant" two pair hand!!! ...in their beginning poker player minds... Just something to be cautious of. Know thy enemy!
Thats why beginners are delicious sources of money you can easily get implied odds against them with your ace premiums when just flatting against them their ranges consist of mostly ace x's & suited/offsuit broadways that they will call u no matter how big the raise depending on the flop c-betting dry boards works most of the time unless you know the person is capable of calling down with a medium strength hand. Usually when a beginner/noob 3-bets me its an easy decision depending on what ive got as he usually has top 7% as they play straightforward with you.
It depends heaviy on the bord, headsup or multiway, other player aggro or not, etc. A lot of factors come in whether it's better to check or not, but you're right! It defenitely is sometimes!
+Chris OConnor Yep. That's about the only issue I have with the analysis. I guess we're to assume based on previous hand history that hero knows villain wouldn't slow play in that situation.
@@FiroRosso It being unlikely doesn't matter in the context of putting opponent on a range. Also there are actually only 3 combos of it since there's a king on the flop. You'd have to account for those 3 combos, along with the 6 combos apiece for the QQ and JJ, because many/most players will indeed check such a dry flop when flopping top set
people crack me up by critiquing this guys explanation about the general idea of hand ranges and narrowing down... its a simple example of the idea behind it written with paint lol... but trapping kings is not the way to go gotta build that pot hombres
If we fold, they take down a decent flop after the big raise pre-flop. A check would indicate KK, or possibly a slight overplay of AA to me since they can assume they're ahead and don't need the information.
Some people love to slow play their flopped sets, so if he hit kk he might not bet. Giving up the lead is pretty suspicious, he'e either trapping or giving up on his hand, and after such a big lead (5xbb) I would be really worried about kk and ak. I would personally check here and avoid being check raised, with intention to call on the turn where he might try to bluff if he has nothing and if he does beat us then we don't lose quite so much
i honestly wouldn't rule out any of those top 5 hands. depending on the player, they could be setting a trap with a bigger set ((99, kk) hoping you have AK-Ax and will lead out to call or raise, further extracting value for their hand). also with AK, same thing applies, generally most of the time they are ahead with AK on the flop and again, check hoping you will lead out and try to steal the pot. this is also true for AA.
Although it would be kinda bad depending on stack depth u can't rule out kk when fish checks, it's a c bet if he leads which I think mostly he does w all but QQ,JJ, and maybe KK. I've always bets the rest of his range including random air
bet is obv a cbet. I have few questions, remarks: a) why is AKs in our prerange but not AKo? b) I dont think bad random villains are aware of ur BU flatting range c) assuming I am wrong with b): why should villain contibet his UTG raise with KK here? Plz exlain. If villain, as you indirectly argue, is aware of a wider BU calling range, and he knows that he represents a tight range. Why should we expect a bet with nuts here? Is flop dry? d) When you recommend call for setvalue, plz also discuss implieds from stacks. E.g.: if effective stack is 10bb here, you'd never call for setvalue
You raise some really interesting points a) AKo is definately in our range and I think it was just looked over when he made the video b)bad randoms arent aware of our Button flatting range, but given that we can safely assume he is a bad random, We can safely put him on the range discussed in the video, thus our flat with our hand range as discussed in the video. c) He shouldnt cbet with KK because if he had it, he wouldnt want to drive our range out of the pot, therfore He could easily have KK. However, Given that a K came on the flop, him having that hand is unlikely. It's profitable to assume he doesn't have KK here, even if he does. d) this video is a generalization of situations faced. There are other videos discussing this point.
Utg is 5 x BB to take out all the weaker hands rep ing a strong hand. Value betting I would say. Looking to ck raise to and bets on the turn so he can bluff on the with anyone sticking around with his strong hand or fold his weak hand to larger bet from Dealer postion
depending on the skill level of the player, they might realize that you might value bet on the flop simply because they have position (this is all assuming this is heads up play), therefore extracting more value for their hand.
Inexperienced players betting large from early position, I usually extend their range all the way down to pocket 77. And why did you take AK out of his range? It would have been nice if, given your analysis, you told us what you think the best decision was on the flop and why. Are you betting here? I know what I would do. Just wondering what you would do.
have you heard of set mining? if the players stacks are big enough and your opponent has one of those big hands you could have awesome implied odds, enough to make your money back for the times you miss if you run it infinitely
I would think KK or AK is more possible than QQ or JJ with the check. Although AK and KK, and possibly KQ is in our range, there are about 17 (and probably much more) other hands we could have. The villain should bet QQ or JJ for information, to see if we have a King. With no draws, if we call they could assume they're beat and fold the turn, losing the minimum.
People are missing the point. Its true, different villains will play this hand differently. Some players may have even raised to 5x with 2-7o. But In THIS scenario which is just ONE EXAMPLE used for illustrating the bigger point, he clearly states that his read on THIS player suggests he's a newbie who will bet big with a big hand. If his read had been different, than yes, the range would have been different as well. Like any play in poker, it all depends on your read of the opponent.
Well first thinking is that he may has QQ or JJ if he is a begginer.If he's experienced he d like to trap us with a check (he may got tripped kings),and give us the action.
In my opinion you should bet a set of kings on the flop to keep a balanced range but then I am mainly a lag /tag player it makes sense too you the Nit too check .....
I do this a lot,checking the nuts has offered me way bigger pots,I like them to re raise Eachother and I will only call,I ll re raise the river or go all in since I know they won't fold once they put so many chips in the pot. After,my bluffs at river will work too since they don't wanna get the same bad beat like before.lol
lm gonna check my KK 4 sure, if I flop a K in a safe board (u should of gave more details about the 9 and the 2 and ur self as well) since u just call the preflop raise then lm gonna check my KK and let u catch up
While calling with a small pair seems like a bad call it really has a ton of potential considering your position. Chances of flopping a set is only about 12.5%. What makes this profitable in the long run is the implied odds. Let's say your Opponent has QQ and the flop comes AKJ rainbow. Can they really continue with QQ? If you don't hit your set and an Ace or King hits and your opponent checks a 1/2 pot Bet will often times take down the pot if he has Queens or Jacks. Your opponent will likely put you on a big pair or AK suited. If they are slow playing a set or top pair and just call guess what? The will check the turn hoping you bet, you simply check the turn. Your bet on the flop will allow you to either buy the pot or see the turn and river cards for the cost of one bet on the river. You have a 12.5% chance of flopping a set and a 40% chance of them folding if an over pair hits. You have to be careful post flop but there is money to be made flopping small sets that nobody would dream you would call a raise with. Kid Poker is the master of playing small pairs and suited connectors. It's all speculation and there is no single answer that is 100% right or wrong. That is what makes poker so great!!!
if i raised with king and got called and a king hits im not checking, because all your opponent will do is check back. the goal is to get more money or get him to fold. im not giving him a free card he will have to pay so the video author is core ct in taking kings out the range. the example was more for explainable purpose
I'm assuming you are playing really deep stacked to call a 5bb raise on the button with no callers in between. Isn't surrendering the lead common for casual players who always slowplay their sets?
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. And if you shoot enough video of that broken clock and then edit it down to just the times it is right, wow! It is going to look like they are right all the time! This is the secret of pro TV players like PH who guess at people's hand's all the time when the cameras are rolling.
Basic principles OK but thats about it. "Beginners" a) Don't always 5x raise with top hands b) "Beginners" have no concept of 'pot control' (as mentioned in video). More likely 5x raises are often used by very average players to take a pot down with a hand they feel vulnerable eg 22-88 and AJ. The only weak player here would appear to be the author, putting in nearly half the pot to go set mining (12%) when a fold is obvious. Surely a half decent example could have been constructed?
4:29 you wrong..of course he check with AA on K expected you have K and put chips on table and especialy check with 3xK :D Isnt????? In other hand he dont check if he miss flop..it calls "C-BET' man!!!
sorry it took me more than 2 years to answer the betting question at the end of the video. i've been studying and researching the answer. indeed, it is not a donk bet. the proper bet in that scenario is known as a conciliation bet, sometimes reffered to as a conciliatory bet.
It was a joke, because he's so talented lol. Like how the commentator said " only daniel negreanu has access to the players whole cards ". Was said in that sort of nature.
It's very unlikely he has KK checking the nuts on the flop unless he is a fish thinking he's trying to trap you, it's likely he was scared by the K and has QQ or JJ. Raising UTG and then checking K high flop is very fishy if he has AA or KK. A good player would continuation bet.
I just don't want to get away from the fundamentals like pot odds and estimated value. That's more important than speculating. An underdog is an underdog.
1. How is it him "donk betting" if he was the initial pre-flop raiser? 2. Why CAN'T he have KK? You wouldn't check top set on a dry board (you were too lazy to mention suits)? lol
I still don’t get it... does putting someone on range even matter? because a good poker play should be unpredictable, how do you know he isn’t bluffing or slow playing? personally I don’t really think ranges work all that well because, a good player is unpredictable.
Not every card, not even remotely close. He can guess the opponents cards sometimes, he's good at it, or just really lucky, but it's probably like 1/100 hands he actually guesses his opponents exact hands.
This is EXACTLY what the novice villain is probably thinking - which is how you get your edge. You will hit a set on the flop 1 out of 7.5 times, but your initial payoff is only slightly better than 2:1. But if you take into account implied odds, that changes everything. You have an advantage over your opponent because you can be fairly certain what his hand range is and that will allow you to score a huge payday if you hit or out bluff him if you're pretty sure he missed. So, even if you lose the hand 7 times out of 8 (which you won't necessarily since you can use the board against him to push him off JJ or QQ). The times you do win the hand and are fairly certain you have it locked up, you can probably get him to put in at least another $400 in the pot - making you initial investment of $50 a pretty cheap price to pay for an eventual profit of $450 and up.
The key to all this is the assumption that someone opening under the gun with 5bb is a novice and therefore will PLAY like a novice. An experienced player would simply C-bet the flop under the gun to keep the pressure on you and keep you guessing at his hand. However, an experienced player also would probably not open up with 5bb. So the key here is knowing your opponent's skill level and drawing conclusions about his play style from there.
a short video, straight to the point, no blabbering, i like it.
Beanstalk is totally FREE while I work on other projects. Please LIKE, SUB, and all together view/comment the shit out of my youtube channel. Post to forums, Email links to poker friends etc... love, greenbean
@@pokerphdioIt's mind blowing... may I ask how to access the rest of your video? Thank you for your hard work ❤
Why would you discount KK from his range when villain checks the flop? You think the villain is going to bet into a pre-flop flat caller when he is dominating you with a set of Kings? I don't think so. He wants action, therefore the villain will check the flop to induce you to bet into it. Even if Ace comes on the turn, he's crushing you with a set of Kings
yo joon, was thinking the same thing, villain could be trapping. happens to me everyday on stars lol
The assumption is the villain is an inexperienced and won't try to trap. The assumption is supported by the 5x opening bet under the gun: He is playing extremely aggressively but like a novice. So, the assumption is that he is going to continue his sheer aggression if his pair seems to hold up because he is not actually putting you on a hand, he's blowing his load out of exuberance about his hand. In my experience, this is most often the case. The inexperienced player is also prone to immediately slow down if you call his "huge bet" because he's going to be playing from fear of cards falling that are higher than his pair. If he is thinking about your hand at all, he's going to assume you have have big paint cards in your hand or a decent sized pair. After all, that huge bet was intended to thin the field down to only the most premium of hands (he doesn't understand your pot odds and +EV).
Although you are correct that it is not wise to eliminate KK from his range, we can at least assume that this player will bet with it a significant portion of the time, so we can reduce the likelihood of KK by a significant amount when trying to read their hand. Another reason we can reduce the likelihood of KK being their holding is called combinatorics. When we see a K on the flop the possible combinations of hole cards that are exactly KK go from 6 to 3, and we must adjust our thinking accordingly.
More importantly, if you were to play this hand as if your opponent might have a set of Kings, or any hand that beats your set of 2s, you are probably giving away free money by not maximizing your value. With very few exceptions, you are never wrong to play a set on a dry board as if it were an unbeatable hand. The money you lose the few times that you are beat is pennies next to the money you will leave on the table (or in your opponents stack) if you are not regularly (ie. always) focused on building the largest pot possible when you get a hand this strong.
The important thing to remember about this video is that the example is not meant to be an intensive exploration of possible hand ranges; if it were, it could easily run upward of an hour without fully investigating or explaining all possibilities and strategies involved in hand reading. The example is only provided to give an introduction to the process of hand reading, and is only useful if you understand that it is a building block for further thought and exploration on the topic of hand reading.
Best of luck to you as you continue to study and play poker. Never stop learning and asking questions. :)
Skillgame honestly, I wish I had ppl like you around I could train poker with. Your knowledge is incredible...
You make decisions based upon the very top of his range? And then discount all the other more numerous possibilities?
Good basic video. Thank you for making it. Takes us back to basics so we can take another look at our poker foundations and keep in tune with the game. The field is getting tougher every year.
it is possible. the dialogue is simply to illustrate what type of thoughts you want to be having to be a good hand reader.
First you assume opponent is a fish from the pre flop raise and then you assume he actually thinks about what you might have.
+John Smith The example works for any UTG vs Button ranges.
Ikr
Irony died.
Most people would check the kk on that flop.....
+andrew kelly Yeah, maybe. However, a good way to disguise your set here is to take a pot control line or a line that mimics your whiffed A-high/air hands. So bet flop, check turn to either induce a turn bet from him if he's aggressive or to induce a call on the river if he's a weaker player and can't fold marginal value hands. But if he's a weaker player that doesn't fold at all, you might be able to get 3 streets of value from him.
andrew kelly it realy depends bro on what limits you are on...
+Cristian Micu i would only bet this flop with kk if i had the betting lead, otherwise i would check, so it really depends on the situation in my opninion
bullshit!
Only a FOOL
He could be slow playing the set of K's hoping that you bet into him.
+Damien Cox or a set of 9's
Villian wont have 9's here because we've classified this player as a beginner amateur, the type of player who only bets 5x on the top 5 hands, eliminating 99 from his range.
@@RealFactsForYou24 ....."wont?" this is why kids are coming in and doing great
@@sivaforutube really? Once you've defined a range you cant add it back in....
Lol
Alex Toreli has a similar hand reading technique, he called it "hands filtering" which he narrows down the hand range from preflop to flop to turn n river. However, there is always risk of misreading when U assume Villain can never check with monster hands or bet with no hands (floating U).
I think any decent TAG would check the flop with pocket kings, to show weakness and try to induce action.
Only Daniel negreanu can read every card. He's a freak of nature
This is the basic and elementary introduction to hand range reading. This is the easy level, so to speak. Checking the flop usually means the villain has not hit the flop with a pair. Bluffing , drawing , and trapping belong to another level, or subject matter.[2020]
wouldn't villain check a set of kings a lot of the time?
To be honest, I see novice player who open up with big bets like this do so with AXs all the time because they are looking to pair their A and they like the idea of crushing someone with a dominant flush in the off chance that you make a flush as well. However, most boards and C-bet behavior will allow you to immediately drop the AX from the player's range pretty quickly - unless, in this example, he is playing A9s and he decides that his 9 pair is good enough to continue with. Novice players tend to lose their marbles when they pair the board with anything above a 7 - they don't think for a second about what your hand is and just think they have the hand sewn up at that point - because after all, they have that A on board and an A might fall on the turn or river making them have a "dominant" two pair hand!!! ...in their beginning poker player minds... Just something to be cautious of. Know thy enemy!
Thats why beginners are delicious sources of money you can easily get implied odds against them with your ace premiums when just flatting against them their ranges consist of mostly ace x's & suited/offsuit broadways that they will call u no matter how big the raise depending on the flop c-betting dry boards works most of the time unless you know the person is capable of calling down with a medium strength hand. Usually when a beginner/noob 3-bets me its an easy decision depending on what ive got as he usually has top 7% as they play straightforward with you.
It's a big mistake to always interpret a check as being weak, it can sometimes be the more powerful than betting.
+Chris Wilson Especially a check in the dark in the small blind with pocket aces. won me a lot of money recently.
Truth. I do it often.
It depends heaviy on the bord, headsup or multiway, other player aggro or not, etc. A lot of factors come in whether it's better to check or not, but you're right! It defenitely is sometimes!
Perfectly said
Couldn't the villain be slow-playing a set of kings?
+Chris OConnor Yep. That's about the only issue I have with the analysis. I guess we're to assume based on previous hand history that hero knows villain wouldn't slow play in that situation.
+synchronium24 We asume he doesn't has kings because it's unlikely (only six combos of it). If he happens to have them, sucks to be us.
set over set isnt likely
Didn't he say that this player plays aggressively when he has a hand?
@@FiroRosso It being unlikely doesn't matter in the context of putting opponent on a range. Also there are actually only 3 combos of it since there's a king on the flop. You'd have to account for those 3 combos, along with the 6 combos apiece for the QQ and JJ, because many/most players will indeed check such a dry flop when flopping top set
thank you alot man, you really teached me alot on this video thnx again for you time.
people crack me up by critiquing this guys explanation about the general idea of hand ranges and narrowing down... its a simple example of the idea behind it written with paint lol... but trapping kings is not the way to go gotta build that pot hombres
i watched clips of charlie carrel on a live stream once and he confidently guessed exactly what the opponent had twice in like an hour
wooooow this made me open my eyes
lol, I was gonna say as I saw earlier in the vid that that wasn't a donk bet.
If we fold, they take down a decent flop after the big raise pre-flop. A check would indicate KK, or possibly a slight overplay of AA to me since they can assume they're ahead and don't need the information.
Some people love to slow play their flopped sets, so if he hit kk he might not bet. Giving up the lead is pretty suspicious, he'e either trapping or giving up on his hand, and after such a big lead (5xbb) I would be really worried about kk and ak. I would personally check here and avoid being check raised, with intention to call on the turn where he might try to bluff if he has nothing and if he does beat us then we don't lose quite so much
c-bet :)
If I get a set of Kings on the flop, I'd check almost always.
You count "20 hands"... SURELY i(at this point) it's about combos, and not just hands... How many COMBOS???
i honestly wouldn't rule out any of those top 5 hands. depending on the player, they could be setting a trap with a bigger set ((99, kk) hoping you have AK-Ax and will lead out to call or raise, further extracting value for their hand). also with AK, same thing applies, generally most of the time they are ahead with AK on the flop and again, check hoping you will lead out and try to steal the pot. this is also true for AA.
Its a value bet, or semi bluff with QQ to see where he is, you can play the hand perfectly, then pull on the river. GG.
Although it would be kinda bad depending on stack depth u can't rule out kk when fish checks, it's a c bet if he leads which I think mostly he does w all but QQ,JJ, and maybe KK. I've always bets the rest of his range including random air
bet is obv a cbet.
I have few questions, remarks:
a) why is AKs in our prerange but not AKo?
b) I dont think bad random villains are aware of ur BU flatting range
c) assuming I am wrong with b): why should villain contibet his UTG raise with KK here? Plz exlain. If villain, as you indirectly argue, is aware of a wider BU calling range, and he knows that he represents a tight range. Why should we expect a bet with nuts here? Is flop dry?
d) When you recommend call for setvalue, plz also discuss implieds from stacks. E.g.: if effective stack is 10bb here, you'd never call for setvalue
You raise some really interesting points
a) AKo is definately in our range and I think it was just looked over when he made the video
b)bad randoms arent aware of our Button flatting range, but given that we can safely assume he is a bad random, We can safely put him on the range discussed in the video, thus our flat with our hand range as discussed in the video.
c) He shouldnt cbet with KK because if he had it, he wouldnt want to drive our range out of the pot, therfore He could easily have KK. However, Given that a K came on the flop, him having that hand is unlikely. It's profitable to assume he doesn't have KK here, even if he does.
d) this video is a generalization of situations faced. There are other videos discussing this point.
Utg is 5 x BB to take out all the weaker hands rep ing a strong hand. Value betting I would say. Looking to ck raise to and bets on the turn so he can bluff on the with anyone sticking around with his strong hand or fold his weak hand to larger bet from Dealer postion
depending on the skill level of the player, they might realize that you might value bet on the flop simply because they have position (this is all assuming this is heads up play), therefore extracting more value for their hand.
Inexperienced players betting large from early position, I usually extend their range all the way down to pocket 77. And why did you take AK out of his range? It would have been nice if, given your analysis, you told us what you think the best decision was on the flop and why. Are you betting here? I know what I would do. Just wondering what you would do.
hac5x3 he took AK out because of K
have you heard of set mining? if the players stacks are big enough and your opponent has one of those big hands you could have awesome implied odds, enough to make your money back for the times you miss if you run it infinitely
I would think KK or AK is more possible than QQ or JJ with the check. Although AK and KK, and possibly KQ is in our range, there are about 17 (and probably much more) other hands we could have. The villain should bet QQ or JJ for information, to see if we have a King. With no draws, if we call they could assume they're beat and fold the turn, losing the minimum.
People are missing the point. Its true, different villains will play this hand differently. Some players may have even raised to 5x with 2-7o. But In THIS scenario which is just ONE EXAMPLE used for illustrating the bigger point, he clearly states that his read on THIS player suggests he's a newbie who will bet big with a big hand. If his read had been different, than yes, the range would have been different as well. Like any play in poker, it all depends on your read of the opponent.
Continuation bet...duh!
Well first thinking is that he may has QQ or JJ if he is a begginer.If he's experienced he d like to trap us with a check (he may got tripped kings),and give us the action.
if i had kk and a k came out on the flop i would check to get my opponent in a trap... just saying
In my opinion you should bet a set of kings on the flop to keep a balanced range but then I am mainly a lag /tag player it makes sense too you the Nit too check .....
I do this a lot,checking the nuts has offered me way bigger pots,I like them to re raise Eachother and I will only call,I ll re raise the river or go all in since I know they won't fold once they put so many chips in the pot.
After,my bluffs at river will work too since they don't wanna get the same bad beat like before.lol
lm gonna check my KK 4 sure, if I flop a K in a safe board (u should of gave more details about the 9 and the 2 and ur self as well)
since u just call the preflop raise then lm gonna check my KK and let u catch up
first rate tutorials from this guy
Nice video Sir!
I think checking the flop with AA,KK, or AK is fishy. Big raise UTG and then checking? Not likely. You check there and the warning bells go off.
Note: it's not a donk bet on the flop (as you describe) because Villain took the betting lead preflop
If he has a set on the flop and raised preflop, he's a fish if he check it on the Flop.
Because only fishes slowplay when they raised preflop.
While calling with a small pair seems like a bad call it really has a ton of potential considering your position. Chances of flopping a set is only about 12.5%. What makes this profitable in the long run is the implied odds. Let's say your Opponent has QQ and the flop comes AKJ rainbow. Can they really continue with QQ? If you don't hit your set and an Ace or King hits and your opponent checks a 1/2 pot Bet will often times take down the pot if he has Queens or Jacks. Your opponent will likely put you on a big pair or AK suited. If they are slow playing a set or top pair and just call guess what? The will check the turn hoping you bet, you simply check the turn. Your bet on the flop will allow you to either buy the pot or see the turn and river cards for the cost of one bet on the river. You have a 12.5% chance of flopping a set and a 40% chance of them folding if an over pair hits. You have to be careful post flop but there is money to be made flopping small sets that nobody would dream you would call a raise with. Kid Poker is the master of playing small pairs and suited connectors. It's all speculation and there is no single answer that is 100% right or wrong. That is what makes poker so great!!!
if i raised with king and got called and a king hits im not checking, because all your opponent will do is check back. the goal is to get more money or get him to fold. im not giving him a free card he will have to pay so the video author is core ct in taking kings out the range. the example was more for explainable purpose
Great video - this helped me a lot. Thanks.
You're welcome!
I put the villain on jj or QQ since he checked the flop with a king showing.
I'm assuming you are playing really deep stacked to call a 5bb raise on the button with no callers in between. Isn't surrendering the lead common for casual players who always slowplay their sets?
It's possible to put someone on their exact hand sometimes. Phil Hellmuth put a guy on exactly KQ of clubs
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. And if you shoot enough video of that broken clock and then edit it down to just the times it is right, wow! It is going to look like they are right all the time! This is the secret of pro TV players like PH who guess at people's hand's all the time when the cameras are rolling.
Can't pinpoint the exact hands your opponent has..
Daniel: hold my money
C (continuation) bet
i check the flop w kings everytime. i have a set and will let hero bet back into me.
Great explanation. Thank you.
Basic principles OK but thats about it. "Beginners" a) Don't always 5x raise with top hands b) "Beginners" have no concept of 'pot control' (as mentioned in video). More likely 5x raises are often used by very average players to take a pot down with a hand they feel vulnerable eg 22-88 and AJ. The only weak player here would appear to be the author, putting in nearly half the pot to go set mining (12%) when a fold is obvious. Surely a half decent example could have been constructed?
I'm gonna watch this the next time I run out of Ambien.
is it possible for the villain to check on flop if he has KK? why would u rule out KK??
You say its fishy to raise 5x pre flop, what if for instance you have K's oop?
Poker Greenbean do you have a new poker channel? (2024)
4:29 you wrong..of course he check with AA on K expected you have K and put chips on table and especialy check with 3xK :D Isnt????? In other hand he dont check if he miss flop..it calls "C-BET' man!!!
sorry it took me more than 2 years to answer the betting question at the end of the video. i've been studying and researching the answer. indeed, it is not a donk bet. the proper bet in that scenario is known as a conciliation bet, sometimes reffered to as a conciliatory bet.
Nice vid! You can practice this using a Random Flop Generator app
I don't get checking KK. After that big raise, you c-bet whether you hit the flop or not. Pretty standard play. Not c-betting screams big hand.
What if your playing against Phil ivey? How do you put him on a hand?
This is great. Thank you.
It's a cbet :)
It was a joke, because he's so talented lol.
Like how the commentator said " only daniel negreanu has access to the players whole cards ". Was said in that sort of nature.
Great video
I think a check there equals kings. At least at 1 2 tables it does.
great video. that was a continuation bet
It’s a down bet right?
Phil Hellmuth: "C-bet, baby!"
.. &, yeah, it would also be a value bet.
I wouldn't rule out kk if the flop is 2k9 rainbow
The error is we have the wrong hand range for the villain, because the villain put in a "STRADDLE BET"...
It's very unlikely he has KK checking the nuts on the flop unless he is a fish thinking he's trying to trap you, it's likely he was scared by the K and has QQ or JJ. Raising UTG and then checking K high flop is very fishy if he has AA or KK. A good player would continuation bet.
I just don't want to get away from the fundamentals like pot odds and estimated value. That's more important than speculating. An underdog is an underdog.
Blocking bet and/or continuation bet, I would say.
4:21 Not a donkbet but a C-bet
1. How is it him "donk betting" if he was the initial pre-flop raiser?
2. Why CAN'T he have KK? You wouldn't check top set on a dry board (you were too lazy to mention suits)? lol
I still don’t get it... does putting someone on range even matter? because a good poker play should be unpredictable, how do you know he isn’t bluffing or slow playing? personally I don’t really think ranges work all that well because, a good player is unpredictable.
In tournaments ist matters More Than in Cash games
itz a check rise 😱😱
its a information bet
Who flats with queens?
you should bet it with blinds that small.
He is either scared of the king or he paired up and wants you to bet into him.
Not every card, not even remotely close. He can guess the opponents cards sometimes, he's good at it, or just really lucky, but it's probably like 1/100 hands he actually guesses his opponents exact hands.
Actually we don't know if it was a bad move...Because he didn't say the chip stack for both players >o)
It's a VALUE bet!
i pin pointed my oponent hving 89 going allin aftr turn.. i called allin with my 23 idiot end of the straight and lost the tornmnt 😭😭
not a c bet it's called a weak lead.
is it....a..... CACA bet?!? lol
Continuation bet
He may check kings here
how often you call 5bb with 22 being heads up?
This is EXACTLY what the novice villain is probably thinking - which is how you get your edge. You will hit a set on the flop 1 out of 7.5 times, but your initial payoff is only slightly better than 2:1. But if you take into account implied odds, that changes everything. You have an advantage over your opponent because you can be fairly certain what his hand range is and that will allow you to score a huge payday if you hit or out bluff him if you're pretty sure he missed. So, even if you lose the hand 7 times out of 8 (which you won't necessarily since you can use the board against him to push him off JJ or QQ). The times you do win the hand and are fairly certain you have it locked up, you can probably get him to put in at least another $400 in the pot - making you initial investment of $50 a pretty cheap price to pay for an eventual profit of $450 and up.
The key to all this is the assumption that someone opening under the gun with 5bb is a novice and therefore will PLAY like a novice. An experienced player would simply C-bet the flop under the gun to keep the pressure on you and keep you guessing at his hand. However, an experienced player also would probably not open up with 5bb. So the key here is knowing your opponent's skill level and drawing conclusions about his play style from there.
People don't bet this way anymore.
I mean in cash games.
A cbet
Answer: 3-bet?