Mick Jagger's Opinion of Led Zeppelin
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- Опубліковано 26 січ 2024
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Buying.. I already had the book in audible.. after your description.. I’ve decided a copy on the shelf in my library would be grand..
I know this story! A neighbour of mine is a contemporary of this era and was even at school with Bill Wyman, so he somewhat knew everyone back then on the London music scene, and as he has told me, none of them liked Led Zeppelin at all at first, they did not get 'it' or why anyone would make "jazzy blues" as it seemed to their ears then (weird). Apart that is from one person: Jeff Beck, who as my neighbour tells it asked Jimmy if he could join his band! I don't know if that very last past is true or not though, heh.
@@astiagogo… While I believe Jimmy Page & Jeff Beck were very good friends for a long time, I highly doubt that he would’ve asked Page to be part of his own new, post-Yardbirds project. JB had a lot of solo stuff waiting to escape, so I seriously doubt he was looking for another group dynamic, where he’d be just another guitar player…
But who knows? Page, Plant and John Paul Jones, I suppose - because Beck’s not talkin’!
I think we take for granted how completely different Zeppelin’s sound was at the time. Now, when we listen to Led Zeppelin, we hear their music in the context with all of the bands that came afterwards who were influenced by Zeppelin, and we forget that at one time it was only Zeppelin with their unique sound.
I agree with you. I believe LZ was perhaps the first band to emerge from Britain that did not have a British Invasion sound or Brit Pop sound. I think they were a major contributor to the kick off of mainstream Hard Rock sound of the 70s from the other side of the pond. I believe Alice Cooper was maybe the largest contributor the 70s mainstream Hard Rock sound here in the states. I prefer The Stooges and MC5 which are a harder sound. But I can see LZ's contribution to harder Rock I'm the 70s.
Actually, No. Totally a natural progression from Cream, Hendrix, The Who, not to mention the Yardbirds.
I was in the Jagger-Harrison side. LZ struck me as just louder, not more interesting-and it didn’t mean “ not British invasion enough.” I was into pretty loud American electric blues and-here was a split-Jeff Beck and band. LZ seemed…tasteless.
not enough blues in their blues
I think deep down inside they saw the future was coming and it was possibly going to wipe them out
Man, I’ve been a concert audio engineer for over 40 years now. I’ve toured with punk bands, national acts and currently with a country/rock group based in WV for many years now. As much as I love my work (and I truly do), when I’m not working, I really find myself not caring much for paying any attention to the business. HOWEVER, I continually find your videos so compelling and simply beautiful. I really appreciate what you do on your channel. Thank you for instilling such a touching spirit to your work. You’re doing something special and inspirational.
many people who work in film feel simlarly ...its work....too much.....a huge majiorty of union skilled laborers on those sets dont watch esp these days the movies and shows they work on....which is NOT to the benefit of the quality i cant equate the music feeling from a skilled worked (and thnak you) like you fully but there seems to be some paralles and all that to say how grteful i and may6 others are for Otis enjoy!
I remember when ZEP1 came out and it blew everyone i knew away. The Beatles broke up the stones kept doing what they do and Led Zeppilin ruled the 70s. Never underestimate the hammer of the gods.
They ruled the 1970s in america but in UK, the 70s where dominated in the early part by GLAM rock, David Bowie (Ziggy stardust), T-REX, Slade, Elton John and also Prog rock was big, Genesis where a well loved group, Led Zep where seen as a band that was big in america and from UK, Brits didn't receive them that well.
Black Sabbath and Led Zep where loved by americans more than the UK, UK press always hated hard rock.
@@jasoncruizer yeah it was the a great time in music. The invasion was in full swing and there were so many great bands.
@@jasoncruizerI think I speak for many Americans when I say thank you Britain for the gift of hard rock/metal.
The Stones changed drastically in the 70's with Jimmy Miller & Mick Taylor....to suggest they kept doing what they do could only come from someone who simply hasn't listened to them
@@nihilistlivesmatter it was no diss to the Rolling Stones. They're a great great band. I grew up listening to all of them.
The great Glyn Johns hit the nail on the head when he describes Led Zeppelin I. "The album we made in the next 9 days was a landmark in Rock & Roll history, taking it to another level all together." I think Jagger and Harrison, like many of the music critics at that time were simply not prepared for the sonic soundscape they were hearing. It was unlike anything that was ever done before - the power and musical prowess possessed by Page, Plant, Jones and Bonham. LZ I was a musical blitzkriege that was hard for many to comprehend.
6 of the 9 songs were cover songs. that is why John's is referring to "sound" & "arrangements".
Exactly what I was writing in different words!
I mean there was Hendrix a couple years before.
@@BarbarraBayAll 8 of Sinatra’s first album were covers. 6 of Count Basie’s first album were covers. 5 of Ray Charles’s 14 tracks on his first album were covers.
Songwriter bands are not the only gig.
I remember being at someone's house with a good stereo, getting high and hearing that first Led Zeppelin LP for the first time. Those were the days when you got high, sat down and listened fully to whatever came out. Completely mind blowing. Nothing had sounded that BIG at the time. MAMMOTH!
Peter, I remember those days, especially after having one of em' yesterday.😊
@@treff9226 😂😂😂
My God.. what a great time to be free, alive & rockin! Indeed!
I was HEAVILY into the Beatles and later Stones and remember they were almost flip sides of eachother, but BOTH were great. Led Zeppelin came out with a whole new sound, the closest influence I thought at the time was Jimi Hendrix. My tastes evolved with them, but Led Zeppelin kept innovating with such diverse music, and when they did Physical Graffiti I began to think they were the greatest band of ALL. Young kids today will only be enriched if they listen to these early greats!
Apart from Jagger and Harrison, Pete Townshend and Keith Richards also disliked Led Zep. I think they all felt a bit upstaged despite all their achievements. Zep were clearly hitting the spot with the teenagers especially in America, and they were NEW. I think Jagger/Richards & Townshend thought they had it all sown up but then realised there would be real competition. As for Harrison he was just starting his solo career, and must have felt that this was a musical style he could never even attempt to delve into.
In the end, they all did quite well didn't they!
Amen. All had a big seat at the big table.
Good points on Townshend and jagger. George was into different kinds of music at that point. He was getting more into Indian music, slide guitar playing and music from a group called the Band, so much so that he was not into what Led Zeppelin and others were doing at the time. Tho he later befriended them.
eric burdon was another who disliked Zeppelin -competion -???
I agree !
Thanks for posting !
Peter Townshend claimed that the New Yardbirds ripped off the Who with their booming drums. Poor Peter!
Jealous ! of the sound , the swagger , the power , the talent
Def agree that this was one factor, but not the only one. Its human nature. You were King of the Mountain and someone you respect and admire comes along and says "check these guys out!", there's a natural instinct to downplay it, closing off your mind to what you see, feel, hear, but not consciously. Like when parents bring home the new baby from the hospital, there's the reaction of siblings sometimes to be jealous cuz they're no longer the center of the world.
Is there anybody alive, except perhaps Otis, that really gives a flying yuck what Jagger "thinks" about Led Zep?
@@MarkRoberts-bj2me You can find Keith Richards bashing them here on youtube also. He thought Bonham was a heavy handed overrated drummer.
@@mikez4760 not sure he saw him as overrated, but I mentioned in my comment that Richards just didn't see the point of his constant, hard driven drumming no matter the song. I doubt Keith was jealous of anything.
Envious, you mean, and you're correct.
They were probably envious of this monster sound.
Jagger most definitely was. "Communication Breakdown" came on and old Mick probably felt his bowels loosen from the sound of all that rocking.
Everyone sees the world through their own lens. I read another interview with Mick Jagger talking about Aerosmith (who he liked) and he seemed completely unaware that Aerosmith had a harder, heavier sound than The Stones did.
Perhaps, but why let envy get in the way of enjoyment? Over inflated youthful egos? I guess fame can be a weird bedfellow.
Nah, Stones were going for understated/cool.
@@AEMachinas You got that right, and that is what this is all about. Harrison/Jaggar were cool art kids and they couldn't hear that in zep. I think by the later albums LZ had started to create their own laid back sound also, not so much the first album tho.
In a way LZ was more the opening of the big 70's rock to come, a departure.
Led Zepplin hits like a Hammer --they blew all the other records
LP's off the charts
Man, last September, we did a 2 night show, celebrating the music of Led Zeppelin. We had 2 guitarist, 2 bass players, 2 female vocalist, and 1 drummer. We did 10 rehearsals, and it was a fantastic show. But 2 takeaways I had being one of the guitarists, is just how complex some of their arrangements were. And a great bass player friend of mine commented after the show saying "You don't realize just how different Led Zeppelin was for the time period, until you hear it like that!" We will hopefully be doing the show again this fall. Thanks for the video Otis!
Sounds like a great time! When and where re you gonna do next Zeppelin celebration? ✌️
Now that we've heard Led Zeppelin so often over the years, we take them for granted. But, at the time, Led Zeppelin was so new and different, it was mind blowing. The Stones were a blues based rock band and have pretty much stuck to that formula over the years. The Beatles were a pop rock band. Each were brilliant in their own way. I'm sure they appreciated Zeppelin later. But, I can see them not appreciating Zeppelin when they first heard them, being wrapped up in their own music. Or maybe they were just jealous. Zeppelin was doing things they hadn't dreamed of doing. And there was a lot of competition between early Brit rock bands.
Possibly Harrison & Jagger were simply too immersed in their own styles to accept the thunderous grooves of LZ. At any rate, LZ carried on valiantly, taking the industry by storm regardless of opinion. GJ’s credits are all to substantial for me to pick a favorite, most everything a classic. Love ‘em all! All the best to ya’ Otis!
That happens with a lot of bands. They have to become kind of self obsessed to work out how to nurture what they have. And it can sometimes blind them to other things. But I like that it helps them focus.
Ultimately the people decide. When it comes to other musicians opinions, they vary widely. But when bands have massive success like Led Zeppelin, it's the masses of listeners who make that decision, not individual random rockstars
Nah, I just think what they were doing was so far out of left feild that beyond their frame of thinking musically.
Either that or they actually knew the difference between good music and Led Zeppelin.
The egomaniacal Jagger probably couldn't accept that a newer band could be so innovative and dynamic. Harrison is my favorite Beatle, but let's face it: your grandmother could love the Beatles. Syrupy plastic throwaways like "Octopus's Garden", "O-bla-di, O-bla-da", or "When I'm 64" were totally unthreatening and antithetical to the anarchic creed that is true rock and roll. Granted, much of Zep 1 is throwback to blues roots...but the thundery of "Good Times, Bad Times", the proto-punk snarl of "Communication Breakdown", the blues-psychedelia of "How Many More Times", and the ethereal haunt of "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" almost literally assault the often treacly stuff the Stones ("Satanic Majesties" especially) and the Beatles (even much of "Abbey Road" -- "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" --ugh!) released the same year.
Great book.
I think those guys were basically threatened by what they heard, but eventually came around. I know that both George and Mick attended Led Zep concerts and spent social time with the band
Agreed,I have heard so many of the greats say the same thing, I just didn’t get it. I think they loved it.
This could be it, as well.
Agreed!!
Thanks Otis ! I always appreciate and enjoy your videos. 👍😎
I think there is a difference between being social and attending concerts and being a fan of the music. Yes Keith Richards attended a concert of Led Zeppelin but he also said in the last 20 years that he felt that the band did not took off.
I think a possible reason is that there is a genre difference in between Led Zeppelin and The Beatles and Rollong Stones. The two last bands are popbands with lyrics that are catchy and can be sung by many people. And are sung by many people. Led Zeppelin is riffbased music with lyrics but not so much poplyrics. It is also not really popmusic. Songs of the Beatles many people can sing it. But I don't see many people sing along to Communication Breakdown. I think that is why big bands were not so much into the new band. Led Zeppelin did not have hits like the big bands. Whole Lotta Love is kind of a hit but not many were followed.
Thanks for this video. I am 75. I was in high school when the first Led Zeppelin came out and I have to say it sounded very difficult and strange. It took quite a while to get accustomed to it. You have to understand the kind of music we came from. The people who are looking back from later decades will never understand our beginning. We never had any of that later crap. We came from a pure beginning. To adjust to Led Zep was a major adjustment and most people of later generations will never understand that. Eventually we adjusted to what these new Yardbirds were doing and it became the best thing ever. Don't forget, this was from a generation that tuned into Jimi Hendrix immediately, but Led Zeppelin was too much some times even though they were the old Yardbirds adjusted to modern times.
Excellent point. I went through very similar adjustments to those bands 👍🏼👍🏼
I had been a huge fan of Top 40 psychedelia at the time, and remember when I thought In-a-Gadda-da-Vida was the heaviest thing I'd ever heard. Then I started getting stoned with friends from a High School across town and literally melted down the first time I heard Whole Lotta Love. Cream, Hendrix, Doors, Zappa, Beck, Crimson, Tull, Harum - all made lasting impressions but it was Zep who first ripped my head off.
LZ One was a paradigm shift in Rock and Roll in ‘69 and Glyn Johns made it happen. It’s hard to understand how profound a change it was unless you were there, I was twenty years old in ‘69, because it was so different from what came before. I remember taking the LP back to IU and playing it for friends who, like Jagger and Harrison, just didn’t quite get it but boy did it turn some heads and the rest, as they say, is history.
Johns mixed tons of legendary bands, but he was obviously in awe of Zeppelin. And this is a dude who engineered "Who's Next"!
No one loves the stones and beatles more than i do but face it Zep's musicianship was light years ahead of both them bands, this event happened in late 68 or so and it would be less than a year and a half, 1970 in fact, Zep would be voted #1 band in England surpassing even the Beatles who had owned first place since 62.
The drumming alone would have been hard for Mick and George to comprehend at first
One time an engineer miked up my upright bass using a tape measure. I thought it meant trouble and it did.
Another great video, thanks Otis.I think that Zeppelin was a seismic event in the landscape of music at the time. Nothing sounded as heavy and powerful as Zep's first album. They created a musical form that blended heavy riffs, basic blues structures and superb and intense improvisation. As Page would say many years later, for people in the music establishment (musicians and critics), what the band was doing was way over their heads.
Thanks for posting this. It made me go back and listen to LZ1 as though for the first time, imagining what it would be like back then. First thing that hits me is each one of the musicians is a true artist, but they also combined to make something greater than the sum of their parts. The songs are incredible. They hit so hard, each one its own color, so original but so familiar. If I were Mick Jagger, I'd be thinking "these guys are better than we are." As for Harrison, there may have been some of that too. But didn't Harrison praise John Bonham in the Get Back sessions?
Saturday morning with Otis....Life is GOOD.
Spent 3 hrs standing in front of Jimmy Page in Indianapolis at Tom Breadwell's club "Le Scene on Prospect Ave. ca 1969. I had come to see Jeff Beck but JP had taken over lead duties for the Yardbirds by then. He was playing 2 Dual Showman amps dimed out w a fuzztone.
Great channel Otis.
BTW give my best greetings to Stan (Hummingbird) Smith.
I’m 73 LZ just blew me away with their unique and transformative sound! One of the greatest bands ever in my humble opinion!!!!!
Great episode Otis. I didn't get LZ at all. But this was '69, I'd been raised on Beatles and I was only 9 years old. Hearing Zep for the first time was like stepping out my front door into a CAT 5 sonic hurricane and being overwhelmed by the power of the sound. Your point about Plant's vocals is, to me, a valid one. As I got older I warmed to LZ since I knew (fully) what to expect upfront. Not to offend anyone, but I recall my very first Van Halen experience in somewhat similar terms. Being fed sound through a fire hose.
I wish I was 9 in '69 instead of 3 so I would have had a chance to see Led Zep along with so many more great bands. I was always more into Zep than the Stones and the Beatles though I was just as much into The Jeff Beck group. And when you hear both you can tell how much Beck was into John Mclaughlin. Although their styles were very different. I wish the original lineup for the Beck group stayed together. They would have been just as big as Zep imho.
Van Halen was huge for me growing up. They were the 2nd concert I saw at MSG at 15 years old. The first being Queen at MSG for The Game tour. VH was touring with the Fair warning album and holy crap.. Seeing Eddie for the first time was unbelievable. Both bands gave me a lifelong addiction to live concerts to this day. I always wished Zep would get together again for just one tour with Jason Bonham on drums. Unfortunately Plant was always the hold out which I can't figure out why cause I've seen him a number of times and he always threw in a bunch of Zep tunes and sounded so great. His earlier solo tours he didn't play Zep. But with the sensational shape shifters I've seen him play a load of Zep tunes as well as classic Blues tunes by Bukka White and many others. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
I felt the same thing about Van Halen in 7th grade. Couldn’t handle the vocals of Dave and Mike. Weird to think back on that now.
There has to be more to this story in regards to Jagger and Harrison disliking Led Zeppelin. As far as pop music is concerned, I know of no other group with as much musical talent as Plant, Page, Jones, and Bonham, moreover they wrote quite well.
Man your work is some of the most nourishing content out there - thanks heaps for taking the time to share the musical universe according to yr vast experience and wisdom!
Just an incredible, diverse body of work. Lest we forget, Johns produced The Ozark Mountain Daredevils' first album. Let It Bleed and Who's Next round out my top three.
You just sold thousands of books for Glen!! Awesome, I'm buying, been waiting for this for decades (the book, I find, has been out since 2015!) As a retired drummer/soundman/studio engineer, I feel this is a great bucket list book. Just bought the Kindle version, and shared this coffee talk. Otis, YOU RULE!!! (Was 7 Bridges road that Eagles song?)
The song was called Silver Dagger, I believe. Glyn Johns' account of that story is featured in the History of the Eagles doc that came out a while back, along with Glen Frey and Don Henley's unvarnished opinions of him as a producer. Suffice to say that relationship did not end well, which is a recurring theme throughout the Eagles' existence.
I've heard Keith Richards say Zep was overrated and brought nothing new to the table. I always put it off to a bit of professional jealousy, as in "...damn it, why didn't we do that?!"
Jimi said that, you wont convince me hed be jealous of that sound. After all, he invented it
I have never heard Jimmy Page say one bad thing about other musicians. Respectful of what they bring always. Not so with others of his time and since.
Robert Plant can sing a 3.92 octave range. Jimmy Page wrote and played some of the most masterful guitar songs ever. John Bonham played syncopated drum riffs with crazy beats & dynamic foot work, he is considered the greatest Rock drummer of all time. John Paul Jones bassist & piano, he was the hidden gem of LZ. And together they made some of the most outstanding music ever, regardless of Genre. But jealous Mick is entitled to his opinion, of course.
Hahaha, too right! He didn't like his voice because his voice was absolutely out of this world awesome and Mick Jagger was just jealous. And the others were jealous as well.
Glyn’s accomplishments set the bar so high that no others could reach the mark.
At 65, this aging iron & steel worker wishes high school counselors would have introduced myself & other to musical production & engineering, instead of business management & education. We grew up playing our instruments & listening to Glyn’s work. I hadn’t a clue that music production could have been much less taxing upon so many young minds & bodies.
👍
Thanks for recommending Glyn’s book!
🎸🇬🇧
It has to be jealousy on some level!!!
The style -- the look and feel of your videos -- is terrific. They feel both of the cuff and carefully composed. The cinematography is particularly outstanding. Very nice work.
As for why Harrison and Jagger didn't flip for LZ: hard to say, but one thought is that both men, particularly Jagger who was heavily influenced by the blues, were quite familiar with the original blues artist that heavily influenced LZ's sound and thus, unlike less knowledgeable music fans did not find LZ's sound all that original or compelling.
Great comment about the look and feel of his videos. Was just thinking the exact same thing.
Possible, but I doubt it. More likely they dissapreciated how Led Zep diversed from those same original guys whos songs they did. Zeppelin was extremely innovative, only the Beatles matched them, imo.... Zeppelin was also dissed by critics as I remember then, there stuff was pretty amazing, as this Author suggests
~@8:00...Jagger and Harrison were of the 45rpm, AM radio era. Yes, they have made epic music, But Page witnessed FM radio in America, playing songs longer than 2:30.
I was 21 when LZ 1 was released. The effect it had was enormous. None of the songs were AM-radio style.
LZ 1 was of a new medium.
In 2022 after The Stones/Jimmy Page collaboration Scarlet was released, Jagger was more complimentary. He said :
"I used to go watch them live, I remember watching their concerts live, it was great - thunderous racket”. He added: “And I saw their last concert as well. And they were absolutely incredible."
✌️👍
A gentleman of rock
I heard Jeff Beck in 1968. I first heard their version (Truth) of 'You Shook Me' with Rod Stewart singing lead, live and for free in NYC in Central Park. When I first heard Led Zep's version I was mildly impressed. I bet the Yardbirds did it before either, and it was written by the Chess Records blues consortium of Waters, Dixon, along with other contributors.
Actually jeff beck groups first two albums had a similar sound to zeppelin.
That’s what i mean, you hit the nail on the head. I just recently heard bits of truth by Jeff beck and honestly it sounded similar to Led Zeppelin 1. There were obvious differences in musicianship but overall they were both overdriven blues.
My favorite line from “When Giants Walked The Earth”… “there ya go Jeff.. that’s how that is done!”
Thank you for another great video. I did the audiobook of Sound Man and share your enthusiasm. I think that George Harrison's musical tastes grew out of early rock, the influence of Dylan, and Indian music. That may be a bit too far away from the heavy blues of Led Zep for George to get moved by it. Not sure about Mick. The Stones grew out of the blues. Perhaps it was the heaviness of the music or Plant's voice. Sometimes it takes a few listens to get a new sound, and perhaps George and Mick would have come to like it with a little more exposure.
Stone and Beatles thought they were Rock and Roll, and must have realized they were Pop Music when they heard Zepplin.
Or maybe suddenly "Became pop"😢
Stones Pop????
Compared to Zepplin, yes.@@axelowell4084
The Beatles were a much more versatile band than LZ. You can tell a lot about a rock band from their quieter tracks. Zeppelin's ballads, although they improved later, tended to be rather cloying, pretentious and juvenile. I'd have had more respect for them if they'd just stuck to Blues and Rock.
Thanks for making this, Otis. I really like the way you placed the quotes on the screen. It looks excellent.
I love this stuff.Its history.. Its very interesting. Jagger and Keith feared Led Zeppelin. Its all about the $$$$.They thought Zep would cut into their income. I first heard Led Zeppelin isn 1968 and I was so amazed by their unique sound. Still am today every time I listen to them.
If Zeppelin were the same as their contemporaries they wouldn’t have blown an entire generation away and we wouldn’t be talking about them over half a century later!! .
Much as I liked The Who and tolerated the Stones back then none of my friends wanted to hear Harrison blowing hard about Harri Krishnas or whatever trip he was on.
For me there was life before Led Zeppelin and then life after they broke out that first album and followed it up with a killer second helping and nothing was ever the same again.
The anticipation of what the hell they would come out with on the next album was too much, I and my friends were bursting to get that next album, it was an addiction for sure and Zeppelin never let us down once, it was a great time to witness the meteoric rise of these guys as they strode the world like giants.
The magical chemistry which resulted in Led Zeppelin will never be repeated, well it certainly hasn’t in my lifetime that’s for sure.
Well said. I was with you.
Personally i think jagger saw the writing on the wall...Zep was the new sliced bread and innovative and the stones ( i love the stones) kind of stayed on that same path they were on...harrison came around as he challenged JP to do a.ballad and i think Jimmy did the rain song and george got it. John Lennon was quoted stating he couldnt get enough of zeppelin. Either way....all lived and ate well in the end but Zeppelin opened alot of ears and carried the hard rock torch forward.
I just discovered this channel and immediately subscribed. what a joy! thank you.
A Nod’s as good as a wink to a blind horse - what a rocking album. On of my all time favourites. Will have to check out this book.
Another beautiful episode - thanks from England. Also lovely stylish film making & editing! Digging the bokeh cars stuff & that shot of the swinging Exit sign is too cool. ✌️🎸✨
Such great stories you tell Otis I’m glad I came across you il definitely be sharing.
It seems a majority of the earliest hits were just rearrangements of old blues riffs with additions of modern technology and the constantly changing artistic moods of the times plus some good ole Rock&Roll 👍
Envy and jealousy, that Jimmy and JPJ , both first grade super musical masters themselves, having played as session guys on many albums, had "found" those 2 super talented guys from the north country and that the 4 of them mixed the best from them all together so superbly and uniqly. Best regards from Immy who has loved LZ music since the Reykjavik gig in 1970.
Love your videos and your energy. I live in Nashville and have met some of your local pals...hope one day to get to chat in person. Stay well, warm and safe my friend.
I grew up listening to LZ as a kid in the 70s. I also play guitar and drums. The mystery and enigma about their chemistry needs no mentioning. But I think there are some details that give us a clue about why they may have been perhaps too different for the likes of Jagger and Harrison. While the music of The Stones and The Beatles have a certain “sophistication” in terms of genteelness… Zeppelin plugs directly into the high energy of the 1950s. If we look at all of their influences, it is well-known that Page has deep roots not only in blues, folk and world music, but especially the likes of guitarist Scotty Moore from Elvis Presley. He mentions a lot of his influences throughout interviews. One of the traits he always points out is rawness and energy in a performance. Especially from the 1950s. Well… That definitely comes across in his aesthetic. lol. (Not to mention the flashy clothes and fancy footwork occasionally on stage- the antithesis of the folk/blues movement that was still bubbling under at the time,.) I think the most telling moment is the live recording of Whole Lotta Love, from The Song Remains the Same. Just listen to that middle section and it becomes quite clear that the 50s was a huge foundation. Those rockabilly riffs that he’s pulling off are just incredible. And of course there’s Plant saying “shake it one time for Elvis”. Page’s contemporaries like Richards and Clapton weren’t coming from that area as much. I mean… The song Rock ‘n’ Roll is another window into all of it. You can’t get any more 50s than that. Perhaps the others were looking to move beyond the 50s and just didn’t see what Jimmy was doing at the time. But hey… Glyn John’s did. And thankfully, so!
Great point, missed by the many LZ enthusiasts who dismiss LZ studio-track stylings of 50s rock --- eg "Candy Store Rock," "Hot Dog," & "Boogie with Stu." That these tracks appear in the later albums shows that LZ never lost its affection for those 50s roots. I especially like Candy Store, it's so wildly energetic and over the top, esp JPJ's bass and Plant's excitations.
@@silverado9104 Totally agree. Funny thing about Candy Store Rock: I remember the local DJ remarking how that song was tracking very well in the charts down in Texas on the more country stations. It's a perfect song for a Texas bar environment if I think about it. But that was LZ. A beautiful mash up of many styles.
Led Zeppelin was and is the greatest Rock and Roll band to ever play ,no one even comes close not even the Beatles ,the Stones were good and one of my favorites but not in the same league as Led Zeppelin they paved the way for bands like Van Halen and others there music has stood the test of time and I still see teenagers and young people wearing T shirts of them today that speaks volumes about their impact and the Rock legends that they are .
What about Robert Plants opinion of The Rolling Stones?😮
Plant once described the Beatles as insipid.
A couple of years ago , Plant disliked the Stones. Now, after Jagger talked nice about LZ , Plant praised Stones songs an carreer. He also said the Stones were a big influence in uk blues bands , including LZ.
I guess LZ fans are very sensitive..
Next question 😩
Feel free
love it. so well done in Indianapolis. thanks for this
Thanks Otis! I love all these great stories.
The sound was probably too heavy, rough and dirty for George Harrison - I figure he would have responded the same way to, let's say, Deep Purple In Rock! More surprised that Mick Jagger didn't get it, but on the other hand he didn't get Jimi Hendrix either, when he saw him playing at a club in Greenwich Village shortly before Chas Chandler got wind of him (Linda Keith had recommended that Jagger should check out Hendrix).
Good recommendation
On acid,❤😂🎉, Led Zeppelin is depressing. It's great for whiskey n heroin. Neither Mick nor George, got into whiskey or heroin. Zeppelin isn't that melodic, despite stairway to heaven,which is maudlin in my humble opinion. Both G n M are way more melodic than Page. As Townshend states page just punches through the music....hard punching rythm section with a gritty sound. G n M are looking for something more sophisticated.😊
@@dalegamburg8995 Haha, claiming that Mick Jagger wasn't into hard drugs and whiskey around 1970 sounds kinda odd! 😄
@dalegamburg8995
You've clearly never listened to a Zeppelin album. Much of their output was gentle and melodic.
The Rain Song is one of the most beautiful compositions ever.
Go listen to Thank You or Tangerine or Going To California and tell me that's not pretty.
Well, i remember when zep 1 and then zep 2 came out. We were gobsmacked by the drums. Until then, we were watching ringo, bobby elliott, charlie watts, ginger baker - but none were doing triplets with their kick drum pedal. The closest to bonham was dino danelli who was fantastic. It was a totally new sound when we heard bonham. With bonham, the drums moved into an equal role with the guitar, bass and vocals. No longer were the drums just an accompienent in the background. Bonham and johns made the drums equal to the other band members. I remember it well - everything about the drums changed when we heard those first two records.
Charlie Watts drumming is "generic" as best. On record ; it sounds like someone is typing on tinfoil.
Not sure I would place Ginger in the same category as the others you listed… 🙏🏻
What a smile you put on my face with this latest vid Otis! I didn’t even know that Johns had written a book.
Sweet, sweet review Otis. You are definitely the kuelest music appreciado of all time. Your wisdom is like warm fire on a snowy afternoon.
I think there's a bombastic quality to some of Zep's music that isn't quite as noticeable now because of all the music that has come along since. But at that time it must have been a lot more apparent. I think that's part of what caused George and Mick's negative reaction. Anyway, that aspect of LZ is part of their charm for me personally, but I can understand why some don't dig it.
Puurreee jealousy! Not buying that.
Yes, if rock music played by young men, especially when written or significantly re-arranged by the guys playing it, ain't at least a bit bombastic, it ain't gonna rock. Shame Harrison and Jagger let their ego's deny them the enjoyment of something fresh.
@@adrianfielding4678 Yes, and it's also for sure true that Zep was capable of great subtlety as well, sometimes in the same song. I remember something about Page having said that he wanted LZ to play off contrasts, light/shade, etc. Maybe bombast/subtlety was also a contrast they consciously incorporated.
@@JuanDeSoCal I'm sure the contrast was deliberate; without some light and shade music tends to become tiringly relentless.
@adrianfielding4678 Not talking standard 1970 contrast tho. Talking BIG, exaggerated contrast, the kind that makes Mick and George 🤮
If you look back, the bulk of the critics hated "The Zep" too. That included Ben Fong Torres of "Rolling Stone" magazine.
I think Mick and George disliked them because they worshipped those old blues songs that Zep blew up to pieces. Just for the record, Keith didn't care for them then or now, and I think it's for the same reason.
Let's not forget that Led Zeppelin did record some of their big songs in Mick Jaggers' house! Mick also chose 'Rock n Roll' on a radio show talking about the key songs of the era in which 'Exile On Mainstreet' was made.
Great insight mate. I've been a basic songwriter who has always just enjoyed the process of trying to get the sound in your head to then somehow getting it down on tape... for over 40 years. Once in a 'Blue Moon', I get it right to my ears. Magic feeling when it happens. GAZ (Melbourne/Australia)
When thinking of this era & place in music, (London mid-late '60s)- I also think of Nicky Hopkins as much as Glyn & Andy Johns, as a "periphery" kind of element. But a neccessity to the overall output in the sound....
Great, great stuff !!
🚬😎👍
Perhaps because of Ringo and Charlie having such a laid back style , John’s drumming was hard to hear for them.
Zep were the biggest band of the 70's nobody was close and I mean nobody... Thats just FACTS 💯. So many jealous of Zep back then . Nobody was bigger in America and they stayed out of the media as much as possible. Even put out Zep 4 with their name absent from the album.... And look what that album did . Great vid . Long live LED ZEPPELIN ‼️
I appreciate the suggestion. I love a good read and this sounds very interesting. I’m definitely going to get a copy right away.
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Stones and Beatles were songwriters. They had terrific riffs but also a lot of songs that were just chords and melody. Zep had a monster hard riff in every song plus astonishing technique. Different bands.
I went down to the pacer game on thursday night and as I drove by Market street I thought about zeppelin playing there 49 years ago to the day. Looking forward to seeing you again at the HiFi Otis!
Thanks Otis for this, you really are quite a good storyteller. In June of 1977 I had just turned seventeen and Led Zeppelin was playing six nights at the fabulous Forum(Los Angeles) and it was time for me to go to my first rock concert. To say that it was exciting, loud, and fun is a massive understatement! ✌
I believe the biggest part of those who could not accept Zeppelin was Robert Plant's over the top vocals and weird melodic sensibility. NOBODY on record, sang like that before him. Unfortunately, too many after that tried (and often failed) to imitate him, especially in the 1980's.
Personally I think Plant took inspiration from Janis Joplins singing style.
@@djangle67 You may be right. There are some similarities. Perhaps I should have said no male sang like that on record before him. I know the first time I heard LZ-1 it seemed so radical for the time.
Yeah ,well if you read the John McLaughlin book Bathed in lightning...there is a bit where John PaulJones is saying how much their circle of jazz musos and session men ,looked down on the Rolling Stones, they thought they were pretty crummy, so maybe mick ( and keith) were aware of that. Its a bloody geeat read if you are into British RnB and Jazz, which i love
Thanks for mentioning the book by Mclaughlin. He's been my favorite guitar player since I was around 15 staying at a friend's house when he put on Mclaughlin's first album.. The inner mounting flame. At the time he told me it was Hendrix but I knew it wasn't. I was big into Jimi but this album was a huge turning point for me and gave me a lifelong addiction to all types of music. Esp Fusion. Beck is also up there for me along with Duane Allman, Django Reinhardt and a bunch more. But Mclaughlin has always been the Gtr player who moved me the most. I can't think of many Gtr players who could hang with Miles and become a master guitarist for jazz fusion, Indian music and Flamenco. Beck is probably the only Gtr player who also loved and was influenced by Mclaughlin and jammed with him numerous times. I'd have to say that Beck was one of the few Gtr players who could be smokin enough to play with John. Thanks for the book explanation. I'm definitely ordering it in a few minutes. I've seen Mclaughlin about 35x over the years but didn't know he had a book out. Much obliged 🙏✨
Nice breakdown of an amazing man. The ability to admit when you are wrong is the key to growing as a person. People that are never wrong are seldom right!
As a young man in the 70's, Led Zeppelin was my all time favorite band. My sister liked the Beatles but Led Zeppelin hit all the chords for me! Only saw them live once but it was a memorable day. The last day they played in the US at a Bill Graham "Day on the Green." Of course green back then had more than one meaning!
Otis. your comment ..."book felt go good in my hands"...you confirm why I love. Saturday Coffee finds light.
Glyn did the Ozark Mountain daredevils first album i believe.
Amazing record although unknown to many.
Recalling the first time I heard Dazed n Confused decades ago. The intro to the song is great...guess Mick Jagger wouldn't think so. I think Jagger was jealous and nervous someone else might get more attention (relying on what I've read over the years)
Always good to share time with you ☮
@@KittyCarlile-490 Enjoy the slumber ☮
100% jealousy!
@@KittyCarlile-490 Don't get it twisted, LZ & the Stones are my jams equally as much still today as they were back then. But, my ❓ is why would Mick ever be jealous of LZ at any time in his music career? For instance in '69 when LZ released their debut album the Stones were on top of their game for years before & after. No doubt Zeppelin shocked the world of rock musicians, bands & fans everywhere when they first came out. Though at the same time during that era the Stones released some of the greatest most iconic albums they ever made in music. "Beggars Banquet" "Let It Bleed" "Sticky Fingers" "Exile On Main St." etc... The Rolling Stones weren't some punk's to be played with, so why would they be scared or jealous about WTF Led Zeppelin was doing? The Stones didn't have time to worry about anybody else but themselves much less LZ. Mick & the boys were worried about focusing on creating an energy vibe of their own music for rock fans like me & you to listen to in hopes of touching the soul to enjoy & share with one another. That's what music's all about when it comes down to it, ya dig? IDGAS "WHO'S on 1st, or WHAT'S on 2nd?" It's WHAT jam by WHO in all the albums we have to choose from to drop the needle on next, that's it, period. We should all just be grateful for the amount of kick-azz music we have & been given as a gift by artists who create it & share with us that shouldn't be taken for granted. Ponder this for a minute if you will & think? We could have been born in the Ice Age when all there was to listen to was some pissed off caveman with 2 sticks in his hands beating the shlt out of everything he could hit in front of him. From being so cold & tired cuz he couldn't figure out how to start a fire yet shortly there after realized he created the first beat in music. I'm just saying... 🤔 Let's keep it a buck! Cool? Blah,ha,ha!!! 😂😜🤣 +Peace & Rock n' Roll 4 Your Soul My Friend+ 🤘😉🤘
@@216Numbskull Feuds real or imaginary have been a part of writers and literature and I would think music would be included in any perceived or real notion of feuds. Voltaire and Rousseau, Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, Faulkner and Hemingway, Norman Mailer and Gore Vidal to name a few.
Good music is so precious we need not go to reenact the Judgement of Solomon and cut the baby in two for an outcome. Let the music play on. ☮
I remember Whole Lotta Love being "accidentally" released by Atlantic, though not met with approval from Peter Grant. I was only 12 at the time and FM radio was just becoming a thing here in the Midwest. It blew me away. It was loud, raw, sexy, and dangerous. From that day I became a lifetime Zeppelin fan.
Great video. You sounded as excited talking about the book as as Glyn Johns did about the bands he worked with over the years.
Thank you Otis, a good producer is very much like a shaman or crone that can guide, but like a bird leave no tracks.
Musicians like writers are not the best critics of others in their genre.
When Zep 1 came out, I just thought finally, this is what I have been waiting for, could not get enough of this breakaway from the same old, same old.
Thank you for your book recommendations never disappointed.
Nice piece Otis on yours thoughts about the book.I really enjoyed your synopsis on the interplay that occurred when Glyn John's recorded Zep 1 sound.
I couldn't wait to get hold of my 1st copy of Zep 1 and show it off to everybody l knew. I got it from the get go, having heard tracks played on John Peel's radio show.
It's of no surprise to me that Jagger, Harrison, Richards,Clapton etc and all the rest said that they didn't like it, when it first came out! A Masterpiece. Well done Ottis❤😊🙏🇬🇧🤘🎸
Great vid, I first heard led Zep's first through Osmosis in passing at someones house I went to. My band were huge Yardbirds and Jimmy page fans. We played all thier stuf, and I had bought the the Live Yard birds album where they playing some of which was going to evolve into led Zeps first. Anyhow this guy (in the house of my friends deal) drops recoord player needle on the opening song and I hear really loud: DUH DUH..(high hat) DUH DUH ..(faster high hat) DUH DUH HH with cowbell finally the Bonham riff completely blows your mind and "Good times bad times" starts. I shout WTF IS THAT??? Seriously, is Glynn Johns inducted in the R&R Hall of fame?? Lets work on that right? I just bought the book on kindle..Thanks Otis. You do know even George said somtimes even he has cloth ears ;-) Love and Peace..-doug
My thought on Jagger and Harrison. George was honestly assessing what he heard and just didn’t get it. Probably a bit ballsy for George at the time. Mick on the other hand heard competition and a virtuosity his band didn’t possess.
A couple of Johns/Stones related stories I found interesting…..When Exile on Main Street was being mixed, John’s, Jagger and Mick Taylor we’re in the studio doing overdubs and for some reason Taylor was getting on Johns’ last nerve, acting cocky and offering input on things Johns considered outside Taylor’s realm of expertise. Finally, Johns told him “just play the guitar, sunshine”.
I also liked the story Jimmy Johnson told about the Stones December ‘69 Muscle Shoals sessions. When the tapes arrived in London, Johns went to work at the mixer with those three tunes (You Got to Move, Brown Sugar and Wild Horses) but never could beat Johnson’s Muscle Shoals mix, and called Jimmy to tell him so, for which Jimmy was quite proud.
I was surprised to learn that Glyn Johns produced one of my favorite albums from the late '80's: Slow Turning by John Hiatt. There are touching ballads to balls out rockers on there and if you haven't heard it for a while, it is definitely worth a listen.
Hi Otis. I'm a huge Stones fan and I've heard this narrative only it was Keith I think making a comment of ( they got the name right) as in crashing rather then.... rising,
Rock & Roll in those days was in its infancy the Beatles in the Wite hat Stones in Black.
Led Zeppelin was it's own lane they sounded incredible on that album.
Being in their own lane was perhaps threatening. I suppose it's also immaturity, L Z was a shot across the Bow....a signal that music will not kneel to anyone.
It simply is Art and as art it's subject to criticism and Ego!!!
Cheers Doug 😎
I guess there were a lot of London based heavy guitar Blues bands playing in the clubs in 1968/69. Maybe they thought , what’s so different??
I don’t think people like to hear the comparisons between RP’s voice and Steve Marriotts voice and inflections. Because SM was there first they might have thought that to be unoriginal…? I am a huge fan of RP’s voice btw. I also am a huge fan of Small Faces and Humble Pie. Like the song “You Need Loving” by the Small Faces.
Excellent video Otis!
Take care Otis. Always a pleasure chatting with you 👍🏻
Pete Townsend admitted he was possibly jealous of Zep. Up and above their sound, Plant’s vocals and stage presence alone made so much of the competition look like amateur night.
Could problem be that a number of songs on first album of Led Zepplin were taken directly from forgotten Blues artists in late 1920's and the 1930's?
Love this video Otis ! Led Zeppelin just might have a been a bit too much (at the time) for Mick and George . Thank You Otis ....
I believe the eagles song that caught Glyn Johns ear was Seven Bridges Road.
Thank you!
It’s possible that they felt threatened by Zeppelins new sound. I could see The Rolling Stones feeling threatened. With George Harrison it just could have been a matter of taste in music as at the time he was heavily influenced by the Indian sitar of Ravi. I saw Led Zeppelin live and they were awesome. I saw the Rolling Stones live they were OK.
Mick was always jealous of a new english voice, and George was into The Band around that time. Im not sure i would have gotten it right away since it sometimes takes months or years for me to finally dig an album. I didn't get Black Sabbath until i put Fairies Wear Boots and War Pigs back to back on a mix tape. I hate every new Pearl Jam album, but i love every 3 year old Pearl Jam album. Its weird.
Once again, Otis, you tell the best stories that gives me a "peaceful easy feeling"😏 I think i remember seeing Glyn Johns in that Beatles Get Back documentary. So i could see him kind of guiding and observing (just like you mentioned). I will definitely check out this book. thanks.
Thank you Otis. This is fun! From Indy! Right on.. the back stories of the music I love.. 🤘🏻🎶🎤🎸🥁🎹💙for a minute there I thought I was the only one who read this book! Absolutely love this video! Thank you.
Thought I found the velvet underground..
To reply to a question you raised.. why do I think people formed open opinions about Zep.. why they got bad press.. please excuse my fast pace and lack of punctuation.. I am talk to text.. multitasking for now.. cannot wait for a moment to settle in here..
I think the reason some people in rock didn’t like Led Zeppelin initially was the shock of evolution.. people don’t take to change so easily. The rock stars were established & comfortable with some semblance of a norm.. hierarchy $$.. modern enough stage ..right out of Chuck Berry.. the British invasion.. now Zeppelin enters the scene.. the established coolest of the cool were looking at a band of four very dynamic musicians… Making the challenge to stay on top of the pops or Billboard.. a new competition ..a lot more work. The “Album” rather than selling “singles”phenomenon.. the whole shake up.. it was fantastic for me! I worked in a record store.. we cranked up Led Zeppelin.. shook the whole mall.. Many couldn’t figure the Hendrix factor.. psychedelia.. much less Zeppelin ..
The mighty Led Zeppelin.. so original.. so powerful.. didn’t make anyone love their old standards any less.. just the giants of rock stepped in..
they played their hearts out.. often in rooms that were un-🎤.. acoustic.. the thing at the time was jamming.. bands would play for hours.. it was festival seating.. Bonham never got a break.. he had to reach the huge arenas.. with blocks of concrete walls and slab floors.. not like the perfection of acoustic architecture now.. assigned seats.. no big sports arenas with engineered sound systems.. stacks had to reach out two blocks back then.. into the rain.. i personally heard David Bowie cursing the acoustics at the new convention center in Indy.. he had a little plywood stage barely a foot off the floor.. “The Diamond Dogs”.. I stood close enough that he intentionally swatted me with his boa!
At this time.. also new.. bands had to create a stage presence with costumes and light shows.. breaking away from “a band” just standing around on stage in front of a mic playing their instrument .. (no offense to the great bass player Bill Wyman).. a few choreographed moves.. taking a bow saying goodnight..
we were jamming.. no more black and white suits or matching outfits.. all new dimensions.. we wanted encores.. held up our cigarette lighters.. demanding more.. Bonham brought the drums upstage.. not just a piece of furniture back of the stage against the wall.. Jimmy was such a genius with the theremin and violin bow.. his wizardry.. they really were something to enjoy.. together.. you were part of “An Evening With Led Zeppelin”… They came out.. they crushed with sound.. so heavy! We wanted loud.. they delivered.. we wanted entertainment that would take us away.. it was theater.. when I saw Zeppelin on their “North American Tour” in Indy in ‘75.. even without “Since”… it was like nothing we had ever experienced in Indianapolis to date with “Whole Lotta Love”.. the younger you were.. I believe.. the easier it was to bond with this fierce new sound.. no disrespect at all intended.. much love for the people who were Elvis fans.. or 50’s diner sock hop juke box style music wanting to hold on to that sound.. i do too.. it’s just that Zeppelin was commanding the helm of the rock and roll ship.. taking the fans into a place that was creatively unique. I for one felt so much camaraderie there.. it was a shared experience.. heavy.. grand.. you wanted to share with friends.. old & new.. you never wanted it to end..
into behavior (unmentionables) shaping a culture.. example: so much ice on the road that night in January..on the way to the concert.. a car load of concert goers slid into us.. totaled their car.. we piled them all into our car and took everyone to see Led Zeppelin.. 🎉the after party was unforgettable too..
I am the biggest Stones fan.. my very first rock and roll love was “honky tonk”.. I love them dearly.. saw them in July 💙Soldier Field in Chicago for “Some Girls” tour! Mick actually set off fireworks in the stands himself! 78’ Keith honorable clean 🙏🏻 still the biggest bad azz rock and roll had ever known.. Ronnie is always a gas gas gas! 🎉
I believe Page targeted the younger audience not unlike the marketing of some pop economics.. such as Swift .. much more interesting to have been able to accomplish that with possibly some of the worlds first heavy metal.. imo 🎸👌
As far as blues influence.. R&B.. funk.. punk.. disco.. folk.. everyone was mixing it in.. Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac.. Blues Breakers.. after Woodstock.. lots of people were walking together sharing music on a different path. Thank God it doesn’t have to be all the same. Who cares who likes what.. as long as the music you love to hear is available while music evolves all around the world..