Wayne Highlander, National Sales Mgr. Bona Adhesives demonstrates the Skip Trowel Nail-Glue Assist method in the Rocky Mountain Regional Training Center.
I'm using a 5" wide 3/4" solid prefinished birch flooring and will use glue assist. Which do you recommend for speed, effectiveness, ease of use (keeping clean), and cost between the two methods (skip trowel or caulking gun) you proposed?
Hi Brian - Good question with multiple possibilities. With 5", you're not dealing with something too wide, so applicator-gun applied would be fast, effective (just make sure you get it out near the edges too), probably cleaner (anytime a trowel gets in your hand, adhesive is going to find its way onto other stuff), and lower overall cost (remember, with a glue "assist", you don't need a lot of adhesive to help the nails/cleats to hold it all down - so go easy on the bead size). If tubes are hard to find, then the skip trowel is probably my favorite method, as I like the visual of the adhesive ribs representing several rows of nails going all the way across the width of the board. If you live in an area of the country that has a lot of seasonal movement, I'd probably go skip trowel. Hope that helps.
For a glue assist (staple being primary method) could I glue everywhere but use a smaller trowel notch size? That way it’s more even below the wood floor
Hi Corptusion - Yes, you can typically use a smaller notch trowel when doing a nail/staple with glue assist, as we're not relying solely on the adhesive to hold down the floor. Just make sure it's a big enough notch to bridge any gaps underneath and ensure enough adhesive transfer to the flooring boards. Hope that helps!
This seems like far more glue being used then the S-pattern that they also say is acceptable -- I'm totally fine with using more glue, but find it confusing that there seems to be no straight answer on: what the differences are mechanically, when more glue is good idea, when it's a waste, when the S-pattern might NOT be sufficient, etc. Appreciate the videos Bona puts out though! EXTREMELY helpful.
Hi S R - The choice of which glue-assist method to use really depends on the contractor's knowledge of the local seasonal changes, the environmental conditions and controls in the existing location, plank width, engineered or solid, species, etc. The more that you think the boards might move, the better off you are using a method that might put down more adhesive to help stabilize the seasonal movements for that particular job. When evaluating, always start with the S-pattern, then skip trowel, then full trowel on extremely wide planks (12" and wider). Hope that gives you a bit more information - and glad that you find value in the videos that we put out here! All the Best!
Hi New Phone - Choice of fastener is up to the professional installer, based on personal preference and perhaps depending on if there are specific instructions for the type of flooring being installed (solid vs. engineered; 5/8" vs 3/4"; width, etc), and the type of subfloor. Hope that helps.
Hi Rachael - It all depends on which trowel you choose to use for the skip trowel. Since we don't need the adhesive as our main method of fastening the boards, we'll typically use the smallest size trowel to increase the spread rate of the adhesive. Assuming that we're only placing adhesive on about 30% of the floor with the skip trowel, you can take the sq/ft spread rate of the trowel that you're using and divide it by .3 to get the approximate square footage of flooring that you'll be able to install per bucket of adhesive. Hope that makes sense. Cheers!
@@brainz-brainz Yep, the 1000F trowel if absolutely fine when using the skip-trowel method; as the proper nailing schedule is still the main source of connection. The little bit of adhesive added just helps secure everything a bit better - especially on wider plank flooring. Cheers!
Hi Ryan - As Wayne pointed out early in the video, he'll usually try and make sure he's hitting the top of the board as opposed to the edge, mainly to keep from getting glue on the mallet (and then on the tops of the boards); but sometimes you need to hit the edge to really snug a stubborn board in there. Another method would be to have a short T&G striker board to prevent damaging the tongues on the boards you're installing. Not sure what you mean by tapping the groove opposite the board, as it's the tongue that is sticking out - but hope the above explanations might help anyway. Thanks for the question!
Wouldn’t you want to tap the tongue* is what I was referring to just saying I’ve worked for some guys who would be upset for damaging the material lol good video tho
@@ryanhaynes5502 Hi Ryan - Thanks for the clarification; and, yes, typically when installing nail down floors, lots of contractors will hit the edge/tongue of the board to snug it in before securing it with cleats/staples (and usually not too gently). However, you're more likely to damage the tongue when doing that (which then weakens the T&G connection and can lead to more vertical movement in that board); which is why Wayne said to strike the board on the top of the face to snug it up instead of striking the edge. Can't say I've ever seen the material get damaged from striking it on the face - if you've got the proper mallet head installed (soft white) - unless it was on Southern pine or a softer species of that nature. But your point is still valid. Regardless of where you're striking the board to snug it up, you need to take some care not to damage the material (and to not get adhesive on the mallet head, then spread it to the board face). All the Best!
Are you freaking nuts this would take forever if you did the 5,000 ft² of hardwood and you would do this you would be there for months they don't pay you enough for that All the pricing one up but for a glue assist s they still pay three bucks pricing for everything for glue hard with nails everything went up and when you show s*** like this that telling customers that oh this is how you do it then we get to a job site and they say oh we saw a video from bona and this is how they say to do it why don't you say it is going to cost $5 a square foot to install it then I'll be fine with it with your video in your technique this is ridiculous you're screwing installers
Hi Poma - Sometimes we post videos at the request of contractors asking for different techniques to be shown. This technique has been shared with us by contractors across the country at our Bona Schools, and with our field reps on actual jobsites. Techniques vary from region to region and from company to company. Some people use the sausages for a nail-glue assist, and others tell us they are faster just using a trowel out of the bucket. Just as in sanding a floor, there are many different approaches, the same for installation practices. Thanks!
I'm using a 5" wide 3/4" solid prefinished birch flooring and will use glue assist. Which do you recommend for speed, effectiveness, ease of use (keeping clean), and cost between the two methods (skip trowel or caulking gun) you proposed?
Hi Brian - Good question with multiple possibilities. With 5", you're not dealing with something too wide, so applicator-gun applied would be fast, effective (just make sure you get it out near the edges too), probably cleaner (anytime a trowel gets in your hand, adhesive is going to find its way onto other stuff), and lower overall cost (remember, with a glue "assist", you don't need a lot of adhesive to help the nails/cleats to hold it all down - so go easy on the bead size). If tubes are hard to find, then the skip trowel is probably my favorite method, as I like the visual of the adhesive ribs representing several rows of nails going all the way across the width of the board. If you live in an area of the country that has a lot of seasonal movement, I'd probably go skip trowel. Hope that helps.
For a glue assist (staple being primary method) could I glue everywhere but use a smaller trowel notch size? That way it’s more even below the wood floor
Hi Corptusion - Yes, you can typically use a smaller notch trowel when doing a nail/staple with glue assist, as we're not relying solely on the adhesive to hold down the floor. Just make sure it's a big enough notch to bridge any gaps underneath and ensure enough adhesive transfer to the flooring boards. Hope that helps!
This seems like far more glue being used then the S-pattern that they also say is acceptable -- I'm totally fine with using more glue, but find it confusing that there seems to be no straight answer on: what the differences are mechanically, when more glue is good idea, when it's a waste, when the S-pattern might NOT be sufficient, etc. Appreciate the videos Bona puts out though! EXTREMELY helpful.
Hi S R - The choice of which glue-assist method to use really depends on the contractor's knowledge of the local seasonal changes, the environmental conditions and controls in the existing location, plank width, engineered or solid, species, etc. The more that you think the boards might move, the better off you are using a method that might put down more adhesive to help stabilize the seasonal movements for that particular job. When evaluating, always start with the S-pattern, then skip trowel, then full trowel on extremely wide planks (12" and wider). Hope that gives you a bit more information - and glad that you find value in the videos that we put out here! All the Best!
What kind of nails to use? Staples or L or T Cleats?
Hi New Phone - Choice of fastener is up to the professional installer, based on personal preference and perhaps depending on if there are specific instructions for the type of flooring being installed (solid vs. engineered; 5/8" vs 3/4"; width, etc), and the type of subfloor. Hope that helps.
Is that a basic prima Tec mallet ?
Hi Ryan - No, it's a Powernail mallet.
Using skip trowel how much does that 3 gallon actually cover
Hi Rachael - It all depends on which trowel you choose to use for the skip trowel. Since we don't need the adhesive as our main method of fastening the boards, we'll typically use the smallest size trowel to increase the spread rate of the adhesive. Assuming that we're only placing adhesive on about 30% of the floor with the skip trowel, you can take the sq/ft spread rate of the trowel that you're using and divide it by .3 to get the approximate square footage of flooring that you'll be able to install per bucket of adhesive. Hope that makes sense. Cheers!
@@BonaProfessional 1000 trowel?
@@brainz-brainz Yep, the 1000F trowel if absolutely fine when using the skip-trowel method; as the proper nailing schedule is still the main source of connection. The little bit of adhesive added just helps secure everything a bit better - especially on wider plank flooring. Cheers!
I’ve been yelled at for whacking on the floor like that. Why not tap the groove opposed to the board ?
Hi Ryan - As Wayne pointed out early in the video, he'll usually try and make sure he's hitting the top of the board as opposed to the edge, mainly to keep from getting glue on the mallet (and then on the tops of the boards); but sometimes you need to hit the edge to really snug a stubborn board in there. Another method would be to have a short T&G striker board to prevent damaging the tongues on the boards you're installing. Not sure what you mean by tapping the groove opposite the board, as it's the tongue that is sticking out - but hope the above explanations might help anyway. Thanks for the question!
Wouldn’t you want to tap the tongue* is what I was referring to just saying I’ve worked for some guys who would be upset for damaging the material lol good video tho
@@ryanhaynes5502 Hi Ryan - Thanks for the clarification; and, yes, typically when installing nail down floors, lots of contractors will hit the edge/tongue of the board to snug it in before securing it with cleats/staples (and usually not too gently). However, you're more likely to damage the tongue when doing that (which then weakens the T&G connection and can lead to more vertical movement in that board); which is why Wayne said to strike the board on the top of the face to snug it up instead of striking the edge. Can't say I've ever seen the material get damaged from striking it on the face - if you've got the proper mallet head installed (soft white) - unless it was on Southern pine or a softer species of that nature. But your point is still valid. Regardless of where you're striking the board to snug it up, you need to take some care not to damage the material (and to not get adhesive on the mallet head, then spread it to the board face). All the Best!
Are you freaking nuts this would take forever if you did the 5,000 ft² of hardwood and you would do this you would be there for months they don't pay you enough for that All the pricing one up but for a glue assist s they still pay three bucks pricing for everything for glue hard with nails everything went up and when you show s*** like this that telling customers that oh this is how you do it then we get to a job site and they say oh we saw a video from bona and this is how they say to do it why don't you say it is going to cost $5 a square foot to install it then I'll be fine with it with your video in your technique this is ridiculous you're screwing installers
Hi Poma - Sometimes we post videos at the request of contractors asking for different techniques to be shown. This technique has been shared with us by contractors across the country at our Bona Schools, and with our field reps on actual jobsites. Techniques vary from region to region and from company to company. Some people use the sausages for a nail-glue assist, and others tell us they are faster just using a trowel out of the bucket. Just as in sanding a floor, there are many different approaches, the same for installation practices. Thanks!
If you aren’t glue assisting 5 inch plus then how are you installing it? Seems like a pretty common practice if you want it to stay more stable