I tried on the titanium version last weekend and now it's on my wrist-list. Absolutely love it. Feel like it's a far more well-rounded, subtle design than the AP and Patek. There's only one issues. I daily a sports watch that holds sentimental value.
Best review so far of the Ingenieur. Agreed on all your points. Not only the RO and Nautilus are better Genta designs, they also feel closer to the originals even today. IWC new ingenieur is closer to Georges Kern Ingenieur than Gentas
Credit where credit is due - It is the best Ingenieur basically since maybe the first or second iteration, but that's a pretty low bar considering how AP and Patek have refined their offerings over the last 40 odd years Thanks for sharing your thoughts 😀👍
Is it really refined what AP( Patek seems to do it way better) has offered us in the last 3-4years with their one trick pony oak?… these optical bulldozers maybe catch some rappers on theirs trips but not really watch and brand enthusiasts of AP😏🍀
@@mmbrey4973 I had the AP15500 (only after buying a CODE, although I happened to want that) and now I have the IWC. The 15500 was unrefined, lacked the white gold bolts of the jumbo and previous references, was crudely finished by comparison to the Jumbo and is well over twice the price of the IWC! Personally I think the IWC is just as good looking, better proportioned and just as refined for a lot less money, no bundling and no prior history required. I think the price point is ok and that it stops every Tom, Dick and Harry having one isn't a bad thing!
You're spot on with this. Fantastic commentary about this watch. One only has to look at the Octo Roma release to see how it should have been done. All IWC would have had to do to justify a $10k price tag would be a proper quick release bracelet with inbuilt micro adjust like JLC has on some of their models. Also include rubber and leather straps to seal the deal.
Very good point - Adding a few key features and add ons may have sealed the deal. Just not in the one they actually ended up offering.... Thanks for stopping by! 👍😀
If you are turned off by the new Ingenieur's exploitative price tag, you might want to consider the new medium Santos with a blue dial that was also announced at W&W this year. It may not have an integrated bracelet, but due to the unique case shape that is at once square and curved, it looks quite reminiscent of the Nautilus. It's gorgeous, ergonomic, dressy and sporty at once, has a 110-year heritage that blows any Genta watch out of the water, and is still priced at well under 10K.
I think this is the best analysis of this watch to date. I agree with you in all points and IWC has grossly mismanaged this release. I do think that the demographic IWC is targeting is those individuals that already have a RO or Nautilus. That crowd would not baulk at this price.
I thought I’d love the Chopard Alpine Eagle and Zenith Defy Skyline Skeleton, but hated them on the wrist. Looked very blingy and bulky. Never strongly considered the Ingenieur until I put it on. It looks and feels incredible, better than those other two, and I think leagues ahead of the Oris, Milgauss, and Omega examples you compared to. The price relative to the Mark XX is definitely bothersome, but let’s be honest most of us buy watches for emotions and looks (heart), not technical specs (head). This will just connect with some (many?) people who are willing to pay this price. PS I don’t own one although am impressed and considering.
Fair comparison to IWC pilot watch but not price changes to Daytona, RO or Nautilus. Here you have to compare grey market price increases. No one but big spenders get these three watches whereas I am sure the IWC will be available to all for $11 000. Compare Daytona at 30tk, RO at 70tk and Nautilus at 100tk. Then you will see that the IWC is cheap and even though double up in 10 years nothing as compared to the others. Great video!
Very valid point. I debated with myself whether or not to take into account grey/flip pricing. Ultimately I decided to stick with the prices that the manufacturer themselves felt were the appropriate prices. I would be surprised if the new Ingenieur ends up going for over retail in the next year. IWC rarely sells above retail. The market is trending down. Most people are at least saying that it’s too expensive, but they may not be the people who are going to buy it and finally we don’t know how much supply IWC will push out. Then again it is the best ingenieur since 1976 basically, so despite the pricing debacle it may still have many supporters We’ll have to wait and see. Thanks for sharing 💪
As a fan of IWC, agreed with your explanation. I suspect that the IWC Ingenieur is going to be a limited production and boutique only release. I don’t think that they would wanna overshadow their bread and butter line which are their pilots and Portuguese range and also pull away market from other integrated bracelet offering from other Richemont brand.
Interesting take. There is definitely some business logic to not oversaturating the market with this watch. To be anything like the two other Gentas it has to have some level of perceived scarcity... 😀👍
Fully agree with your review. Just imagine how incredibly well Cartier would likely do if they set their minds to re-releasing a new version of the Santos with the octagonal bezel at the price of the current Santos…!
Agree 100% about price. I did just try it on though, right after a Mark XX. As a design object, the Ingenieur was the clear winner for me. In fact, it might have just gone to the top of the list. Would absolutely not consider buying new though. 10k+ is criminal.
The math is awesome, but the numbers on AP and Patek are not relevant if the market value is not used. Considering you have to buy gray or have thousands of dollars of spend history to get those watches at list price, the list price is fiction
If you like the Genta design, the Ingenieur is a great option, and I certainty enjoyed my time with the watch when I had an earlier iteration....it is a very good watch. It isn't worth comparing it to the Nautilus or Royal Oak since they are in different price points and attract different customers. That said, your criticism about its high retail price is spot on.
Fair point. My thinking is IWC wants to move a little up the food chain and took a little bit too big of a step with the initial pricing. And I do appreciate the design og this watch. Like I said, it's very well made. It just doesn't resonate personally. I feel the same way about Porsche. I appreciate their cars but I've never personally appreciated the "porsche 911" design... 👍😀
At the time of this review I wonder if the maker of this video actually own or at least have handled the actual watch? I assumed no, as If not, everything he said is probably just his personal opinion and very bias because he is opioning on something he did not actually handled in reality, much less owned. The Royal Oak and Nautilus are both better designs and way more iconic. No doubts about it. But let's be fair, even at the current "What are you thinking?" price level of the Ingenieur, it's still 2X to 3X cheaper and that hasn't even factor in grey market pricing. And I don't think the RO and Nautilus are like 2X to 3X a better watch as I also own them besides the Ingenieur. It's really down to personal opinion ( and bias ). And drawing comparison of the pricing with the pilot watch with the same movement is a moot point because that watch is way less in terms of finishing and dial attractiveness.
Well the second hand Market will determine if the pricing is fair or hyped up ….The aquanaut and nautilus had the same movement and there was a pretty big delta but again the bracelet option was there for 5711 ..As a collector of all integrated bracelets in just glad IWC released a good iteration
Yup, the watch is nice but too pricey-it’ll be much cheaper on the secondary market. In this case IWC is a day late and a dollar short 😎! Another great take-best regards.
I'm going to be curious what the pricing is like on the secondary for sure. That will also depend on whether it is in some way limited in production in practice. We'll have to see, but put my money on it hitting 9K on secondary.
While none of the 3 Genta watch appeal to me, this one appeals the list. It just looks old fashioned, not vintage, even if it's the one that went through the most changes since its release. On a separate note, I like your numbers oriented videos. Please keep them comming.
Big fan of your channel, Mike. It really cuts through the marketing BS and speaks to watch enthusiasts. I always look forward to each video you put out. I'm in the market for an integrated steel watch so naturally im considering this new ingenieur amongst other watches like the defy skeleton, chopard AE and the Laureato. But now having second thoughts with your strong thoughts on the price point. Am i better served looking at the others or something else?
Thanks - Really appreciated. Tough call. Everything is kind of expensive by now. Personally I just have a tough time justifying a steel IWC at that price. They're all great watches. My favorite is the Defy skeleton, followed by the laureato. But it's honestly not about what I like - It's what YOU like. And if you think it's an ok price for you - well, then that's totally ok - for you. Don't know if that helps, but that's my thinking at least. Cheers 😃
Don't get me started. In the US this is 11.700. In my local currency it converts, for the steel version, to 14.000 USD. That's a whole lot of moose meat.... Thanks for stopping by 😀👍
You reviews are very insightful, and considered. Packed full of information, sprinkled with opinion, great job. This is a watch I want to like, and I might feel different when I see it on the wrist. However, the asking price puts it up against plenty of other high quality watches. It's one I hope to find second hand after a dose of depreciation(ever the optomist🙈)
no not unfair , but the iwc ing. is even as you said not the best looking of the 3 industrial design gentas, it is available. secondly , double the price of a mark xx, yes, but if you look at the general price increase of other high end manufacturers like jlc( double their prices at some modells in one year ) or even cartier ( here with nearly 10% per year , 5% in spring , 5% in winter) just wait 10 years under you have 100% more ( by the way exactly the time when last iwc ing came out) so i guess iwc just take their 10 years price increase in one step and when you look at the 2013 price for an iwc ing just 6000 euros now 12.000, it’s only 5% per year) anyway, why i am going to buy this beauty despite your wishful 8.000 and not more , it’s not gonna be cheaper in the future for no high end watch, and at the end it is a genta , and there are only 3 from him in this area… so i am quite sure no one will loose money with this new iwc ing…
Does the butterfly have micro? If not then they really messed up. But the biggest eff up is a starting price of 12k and an extra 3 for titanium. What are they thinking? Beautiful watch. I will never pay 12 for one, would have paid 8 at a push.
The butterfly does not have micro adjustment. You can get a regular fold over clasp (identical to the one on the mark xx) that has microadjustment but that does not give you the clean, sleek aesthetic of the butterfly. Pretty sure they came up with it as an afterthought…. 🤦♂️😀
Agree about the high price, but in the range of the Glasshutte diver or the Bathyscaphe by Blancpain or a fifty fathoms. I also think that IWC is the perfect brand for an engineer tool watch. It’s more credible as a tool watch than the Nautilus or the Royal Oak. And more under the radar and discreet. Don’t get me wrong, I wish it was cheaper …,but if I had 12.700 euros to spend on a watch… I think it would be the new ingénieur.
Although I think they really messed up with the butterfly clasp when launching this, it is otherwise a beautiful watch. But, yes, the price is way too much!
You're saying all this becauae u haven't worn one on your wrist i have tha royal oak and the nautilus and i added this one to my collection ... the price is very fair and the finishing is excellent worth every penny.
I know you have a lot of people agreeing with you here but I disagree. Price is not ridiculous. How much is a 41mm datejust? 10,500. Can you actually buy a Daytona? How much are people actually paying for Daytona. What about the Nautilus? Can you or I go buy a nautilus? 😂 Probably not. How much are they actually selling for? ALOT more than what you are projecting here. The is Ingenuier is vastly different in design from the older models and don’t understand why people are complaining about the price for this amazing design. Have you seen it? Have you put it on the wrist? This thing is perfection. You can hate on the price all you want but at least you have a great shot of wearing this one, yet here you guys are complaing. Good Luck with the other models you speak about at retail. On paper you make sense, in reality you do not.
IWC targets watch people with Genta's name, because no normal person knows who Genta was. Yet, all watch people know that this watch is overpriced, because watch people generally know watches and their prices. So... who is this watch for? Watch people who are ok with overpaying for watches?
CAGR for Omegą Speedmaster Professional for that exact same time period is roughly 7,7% It might be slightly overpriced but I think that should be subjective. I've watched reviews and and first impressions after the watch was released and most of them criticise the price - fair enough but it was bad across all of them that I completely disregarded Ingenieur as an option for me. Went to ad last week to look and possibly buy the new Omega Speedmaster FOIS, they had Ingenieur on the display in Aqua colour and just for fun I've asked to try it on. Fell in love, don't know why, not sure, but that's how it is with watches sometimes. It's my next purchase
I actually love this watch...but do agree the price hike is uncanny and unruly...with that said used are much better priced they lose a lot of value soon as you walk out that door
No you are not being unfair. They will sell for a while until the hype dies. Personally I think Nautilus is a yawn and this no better. Nice but meh. In the end it is only 'sort of' Genta and 'sort of' in-house and that commands no premium. There is no 'real thing' element for enthusiasts with this. In 12 months a well-cared-for piece at half this boutique price will be a decent buy if you like it enough.
Positioning. Exit liquidity if your Rorschach eye sees a credit crunch; keeping up with future CPI if it see's CB's suddenly having to drop to zero bound. Who'dve thunk it; IWC is running AND front running an horological high beta fund.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Aint much perhaps to it when BBerg posts headlines such as, "Top Swiss Watch CEOs See Gloomy Outlook As Demand Woes Materialize". What do we get when we add 1 to 1? A scramble and suddenly the "high and mighty" gotta dance for their supper for a change. Thats why we're getting these crowd pleasers. There is no pathway to a positive outcome economically without significant pain and there is a rolex glut i would argue, not a shortage. In all cases, the tide's rolling out. Now we see who has any speedos on at all. Grabbing my popcorn.
I don't see inferior tech like a soft iron cage instead of a silicon hairspring and therefore no see-thru caseback etc justify CHF 12k. Clasp is also not adjustable. It's a cool watch, but not for that money. Btw: like your pace an density of Information. I don't want to spend an hour like on many other channels.
We agree completely on the watch. Thanks for the feedback as well. I try to cram as much in as possible with as little redundant information. Glad you like the style And of course---- Thanks for stopping by! 👍👍👍
About 2k too much ill say but finishing compared to mark 20 is at a different level and that deserves dollars. AP and Patek prices are multiple times more
I smell Richemont behind this, demanding their watch brands make more money. Cartier and JLC have had some whopping price increases over the last 17 months. Vacheron's increases aren't so noticeable but then, they have started at a higher level anyway. Lange: The Saxonia Thin has gone from £13k to £22k over the last five years or so. The Lange 1 is £43k which is a huge increase on prices four or five years ago. I am a JLC fan but their prices have gone up so much I can't afford my favourites anymore and I would be damned if I would pay all that extra for the same watch. I suspect, if they keep on increasing like this, a "market correction" will occur sometime in the next few years.
Excellent review. Bland looking and overpriced. The Defy Skyline is better looking for less ($9k USD) - however - the 10 second dial will give me seizures. IWC definitely dropped the ball here as they could have taken some GG "design liberties "and made the bezel (boring!) much more interesting. Thanks and cheers!
Like it even if its 'not the best Genta' its still a Genta, and hits me the same. HOWEVER..... Needed an open caseback, needs better bracelet / quick release options (see Zeniths Defy Skyline as perfection) and most importantly a CAGR of 1% at the most. MSRP should be 7-8K MAX
see for me the AP and the Patek don't do it for me. This one does! I love the teal version, it feels more "fun" to me than the AP or PP. I also love the Oris Kermit you showed off too.
The only thing they could have done better on the design is put the IWC logo at the 12 in that art dec font like the original genta. They should have thrown their branding rule out for this watch to respect the design
Agree, this is the least iconic of Genta's designs. IWC is clumsily trying to elevate its status to be in the same league as the Royal Oak and Nautilus. I don't think it's going to fly.
That’s my thinking as well. I’m totally ok with IWC trying to move “upmarket”. You have to take it in steps and can’t just aim for the end state in one shot. Gotta raise the temperature on the frog slowly or the frog jumps out of the water…. Thanks for sharing 👍😀
It’s should sell over 18000 to be fair. A entry level Rolex sell over 20000, why not sell 18000? Patek, AP all not in-house but JLC modified movement, no one care
$8500 retail it'll sell like hot cakes. It's a shame. More than $10k you are looking at different class of buyers now, and IWC is not competing with Patek and AP.
So many tight arses are whinging about the price !! Firstly it is not worth comparing it to anything as it is what it is. I think its absolutely stunning, the beauty is in the simplicity and for those who appreciate that. It is not targeted at everyone of course so if its not your thing that’s fine, you don’t need to try and rubbish the watch and the price, just don’t buy it! I think its beautiful for many reasons and I feel that the price is fair so I will buy it and the aqua dial is spectacular for me. Have just put a deposit on it at a boutique and can’t wait to receive it even though it may take a while. We all have opinions but it’s important to remember that we have have different styles and budgets so the release of this watch was not meant to target a Pilot Mark xx customer at that price point obviously
IWC when it comes to sports watches are wildly overrated. muhle are not far behind. i’ve never been so unimpressed with anything as when I tried on the markXX “how much” you’ve got it absolutely spot on this is by far the worst of the Genta and it’s wildly overpriced.
I hate the diver-esk crown guards the IWC designer is so proud of. And it is to big for a watch that is nowadays rather an elegant (but sporty) dress watch. The original design in 38 mm, with the new symmetrical bezel, as material hardened titanium and a technically modernized, easy to change and size bracelet: this was my choice.
The crown guards are a thing for me as well. 38mm like you said would be a huge improvement - integrated bracelets wear large generally! Thanks for sharing 👍👍
Agree. I don't care at all about this watch. Even more so because it is absurdly overpriced. Huge misstep by IWC. This ill-conceived release damages the brand.
Baume riviera is 3.5k , the question is how much is the bracelet and clasp on the IWC really worth ? It’s great watch but a 6k watch tops. I was a little boy in the 1970s but what I do know is that people are wildly overplaying the reaction back then. my dad was a bricklayer he had a patek. ML and RW both mid 70s but little love.
Thank you for the fair question. All the watches in the playlist “watch reviews” are watches that I have had hands on. I have some access to watches through some AD’s locally and abroad that give me access because of a good relationship - but do not let me borrow or film the watches. Additionally I have one or two other personal connections that give me access. In both cases this access is sometimes a little delayed compared to what the major youtubers can deliver on. As examples of that the Nomos video I did was almost two months after the initial release of the watch as that was the time it took to get in the hands of someone I knew. This I week I have been to the AD and checked out the Bb54 and will be ready with a video next week. (Tudor generally has watches in store same day as they officially announce them). I have not done a moonswatch video review because - I have never bothered to ask a person in a swatch store to take them out of the case (and they aren’t available locally). I would love to be in the position eventually to both have long term access, to up my filming quality by using my own B-roll. Until that time, I have to make do with press photos from the manufacturer only (as I don’t want use stills from other publications if it all possible). As to general commentary on watches, I feel that much like Theo & Harris, ID guy and others, I have no qualms in sharing opinions or thoughts on watches in general based on press, hype or other media without having had hands on. I have no doubt that I could grow my channel more and faster with better personal B-Roll as it will add not only variety to the videos but also, as you allude to, lend credibility to my positions - so hopefully I can make that a part of my proposition sooner rather than later. Thanks again for the question. As I stated, it was a fair one. Hope to see you come back another time. But before you go: What do you think of the price of the Ingenieur and my take on that specifically?
The original lugs and no crown guard gave the watch more character, these lugs work on the nautilus because of the octagonal bezel but they don’t go well with the Ingenieur’s circular bezel. Imo they should have stuck to the original design.
Buying a watch is about passion more than anything else. If you like it & the brand resonates to you then buy it. For me, I can't see the actual value in buying any Genta steel watch. You are over paying more for the marketing and brand name than realistic production costs. The profit margin on Genta design is criminal. I absolutely agree that he was a genious but not necessarily that his designs are timeless. It's just that social media has made the Nautilus & RO very famous & popular. The celebrities & top 1 per cent have been seen wearing them and now everyone wants in. If you offered either watch to me 20 years ago I would have puked at the garish 1970s geometric design, and rejected it as much as the Brady Bunch's wooden panelled station wagon. I think all this Genta hype and copying the design across all brands now is a fad more than anything else. It's a cash cow. I'm frankly sick of it. IWC are 20 years too late. I don't think their interpretation of Genta design is neither good or bad. It's just indifferent which makes it boring. If they marketed as heavily as Patek & AP then maybe consumers would have taken more warmth to it. Design is a language and like any spoken language it's best adopted when at a young age, otherwise people's taste are not accustomed to a variant of a design language they're already familiar with. It just becomes copy cat. Bastardized at best. My experience with IWC is that growing up I'd always seen it on conservative wrists. Worn by people in the engineering or technical field. People who want a reliable luxury watch but are too conservative to display wealth or celebrate success. The suppressed, hard working guy that puts in the long overtime hours without cutting corners or taking short cuts. The engineer, scientist, doctor, pilot, accountant. Guys whose occupations require years of study and analytical mind to the extent of boredom. The last guy I seen wearing an Ingenieur was a very risk averse, ultra conservative bank CEO. As I shook his hand and by his personality and seeing the watch on his wrist, I knew exactly the man I was about to enter a meeting with. He also drives a Volvo. Need I say more.
Volvo and IWC. I see the analogy. 🤣 As for this constant retreading of old designs, it can get a little tiresome and some brands are definitely worse than others. Give me a Mark XX any day over the Ingenieur... Thanks for sharing. Really appreciated 👍
agreed on overpriced. i have iwc pilot spitfire, reasonable price and panerai blue notte, overpriced but my first panerai. the ingenieur is just not iconic enough to justify the price
To all of you "it's too expensive" whiners, why is this too expensive at less than $12k when the yachtmaster 42 RLX costs more and no one is screaming that? Similar materials, accuracy ... The octo roma, the GP are ugly AF. The Oris? Please. The iron eagle? Why is that better? The overwhelming majority of people who are saying X watch is better are not watch makers, have never seen the inside of a watch case, unless display,mhave never serviced or worked on a watch etc... Not in house? Does Richemont not own Val Fleurier? So silly..
Don’t get me started unreasonable premiums on titanium watches…. Yachtmaster, Seamaster 300m no time to die, octo finissimo titanium Oh well, have to spend my money on something….. Thanks for sharing 😀👍
@@ivanoschen the movement in use is well documented. I do not own one. nor do i expect to. Just presenting facts. Your "lol" and nothing else, or anything of value, reinforces those facts.
Jezus..., that was rugged. Seems like they touched a nerve. Honestly, i Like the thing. Afaic, it's a PP or a Royal Oak that i can Afford, withOut having to drop out of the homology-watch class entirely. How can you be So p*ssed about IWC's price on This watch, but it's okay what AP, PP or Chopard get, respectively, for their's?
Well after listening to you gibber on about this watch I am delighted I don’t share your views. The Nautilus was badly managed, for decades they only made it for girly sized wrists!
IWC have some nice looking watches. This is not one of them. The movements are either modified Selita/ ETA or otherwise outsourced in their most popular models. This begs the question, why are they charging so much for them? It’s simply not good value.
It’s a watch… at the end of the day, nothing should be worth more than the materials it took to make them (Nothing is worth it). This watch is worth it to those who want it and that’s who it was made for.
To be honest … I think the new IWC Ingenieur it’s absolutely amazing- marvelous and stunning. If you really handled you see the finishing is top notch…to me, the price is absolutely justified. The titanium IWV Ingenieur is the perfect piece … the bracelet is the best you can find in the market . Period.
I genuinely flat out think the Nautilus is not a pretty design, the RO almost grew on me but the band is proportionally too wide and the build quality in person just didn’t sell me on its price, not even at MSRP. The bracelet link design is very cool and original however. I actually don’t mind the Ingenieur because it’s reasonable priced and not overplayed. If you put RO finishing side by side with say Lange Sohne, it should maybe be a $22k watch, max.
I'm gonna have to disagree about the design. I think it's just as good looking as the RO and N. The N is my least favorite in fact. The big benefit is the IWC Ing. is actually available. Good luck buying the other two. The main issue IWC has is that they don't have the silicon hairspring tech, which forces them to use an iron cage on this model. Eventually the patents will expire though, and IWC will be able to use the anti-mag tech. When the Ing. comes with a display case back and silicon hairspring, I'll be picking one up. I'm guessing it'll just be a few years.
I love IWC and own two recent models but they're prices increases and annually adjusted price are out of hand, so I went elsewhere with my money. It's a money grab to a certain extent, it's over priced because the watch community is growing and growing and growing.
Every watch is overpriced! 90/100 K for a 5711 is ok? 60 K for a royal oak is ok? 35K for a Daytona 126500LN is ok? 18/20K for a gmt pepsi is ok?ecc. ecc. 😅
WAY too expensive for what you're getting. Pilot Mark XX is the same watch, with the same movement, for half the price. Just don't see paying an extra $6K for . . WHAT??
I tried on the titanium version last weekend and now it's on my wrist-list. Absolutely love it. Feel like it's a far more well-rounded, subtle design than the AP and Patek.
There's only one issues. I daily a sports watch that holds sentimental value.
I like this watch and am not turned off by the price. We sure know how to justify not liking something.
Best review so far of the Ingenieur. Agreed on all your points. Not only the RO and Nautilus are better Genta designs, they also feel closer to the originals even today. IWC new ingenieur is closer to Georges Kern Ingenieur than Gentas
Credit where credit is due - It is the best Ingenieur basically since maybe the first or second iteration, but that's a pretty low bar considering how AP and Patek have refined their offerings over the last 40 odd years
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 😀👍
Is it really refined what AP( Patek seems to do it way better) has offered us in the last 3-4years with their one trick pony oak?… these optical bulldozers maybe catch some rappers on theirs trips but not really watch and brand enthusiasts of AP😏🍀
@@mmbrey4973 I had the AP15500 (only after buying a CODE, although I happened to want that) and now I have the IWC. The 15500 was unrefined, lacked the white gold bolts of the jumbo and previous references, was crudely finished by comparison to the Jumbo and is well over twice the price of the IWC! Personally I think the IWC is just as good looking, better proportioned and just as refined for a lot less money, no bundling and no prior history required. I think the price point is ok and that it stops every Tom, Dick and Harry having one isn't a bad thing!
You're spot on with this. Fantastic commentary about this watch. One only has to look at the Octo Roma release to see how it should have been done. All IWC would have had to do to justify a $10k price tag would be a proper quick release bracelet with inbuilt micro adjust like JLC has on some of their models. Also include rubber and leather straps to seal the deal.
Very good point - Adding a few key features and add ons may have sealed the deal. Just not in the one they actually ended up offering....
Thanks for stopping by!
👍😀
Official micro adjust clasp ua-cam.com/video/YFxFrFLFmf0/v-deo.html
If you are turned off by the new Ingenieur's exploitative price tag, you might want to consider the new medium Santos with a blue dial that was also announced at W&W this year. It may not have an integrated bracelet, but due to the unique case shape that is at once square and curved, it looks quite reminiscent of the Nautilus. It's gorgeous, ergonomic, dressy and sporty at once, has a 110-year heritage that blows any Genta watch out of the water, and is still priced at well under 10K.
The Santos! Totally agree. That’s a stunner of a watch at a very reasonable price.
Good call 👍😀
Santos is extremely slept on… I personally feel it was a huge part of the influence on the royal oak tbh. Industrial screws in the bezel, etc.
I think this is the best analysis of this watch to date. I agree with you in all points and IWC has grossly mismanaged this release. I do think that the demographic IWC is targeting is those individuals that already have a RO or Nautilus. That crowd would not baulk at this price.
They just screwed it up. I know all brands want to raise their prices, but you can't take the jump all at once....
Thanks for sharing 👍👍😀
I thought I’d love the Chopard Alpine Eagle and Zenith Defy Skyline Skeleton, but hated them on the wrist. Looked very blingy and bulky. Never strongly considered the Ingenieur until I put it on. It looks and feels incredible, better than those other two, and I think leagues ahead of the Oris, Milgauss, and Omega examples you compared to. The price relative to the Mark XX is definitely bothersome, but let’s be honest most of us buy watches for emotions and looks (heart), not technical specs (head). This will just connect with some (many?) people who are willing to pay this price. PS I don’t own one although am impressed and considering.
Fair comparison to IWC pilot watch but not price changes to Daytona, RO or Nautilus. Here you have to compare grey market price increases. No one but big spenders get these three watches whereas I am sure the IWC will be available to all for $11 000. Compare Daytona at 30tk, RO at 70tk and Nautilus at 100tk. Then you will see that the IWC is cheap and even though double up in 10 years nothing as compared to the others. Great video!
Very valid point.
I debated with myself whether or not to take into account grey/flip pricing. Ultimately I decided to stick with the prices that the manufacturer themselves felt were the appropriate prices.
I would be surprised if the new Ingenieur ends up going for over retail in the next year. IWC rarely sells above retail. The market is trending down. Most people are at least saying that it’s too expensive, but they may not be the people who are going to buy it and finally we don’t know how much supply IWC will push out.
Then again it is the best ingenieur since 1976 basically, so despite the pricing debacle it may still have many supporters
We’ll have to wait and see.
Thanks for sharing 💪
You couldn't have said it better. I agree 100%.
thank you .😊😊
As a fan of IWC, agreed with your explanation. I suspect that the IWC Ingenieur is going to be a limited production and boutique only release. I don’t think that they would wanna overshadow their bread and butter line which are their pilots and Portuguese range and also pull away market from other integrated bracelet offering from other Richemont brand.
Interesting take. There is definitely some business logic to not oversaturating the market with this watch. To be anything like the two other Gentas it has to have some level of perceived scarcity...
😀👍
Fully agree with your review. Just imagine how incredibly well Cartier would likely do if they set their minds to re-releasing a new version of the Santos with the octagonal bezel at the price of the current Santos…!
lol. I see what you mean 😊
Santos looks too good right now
Agree 100% about price. I did just try it on though, right after a Mark XX. As a design object, the Ingenieur was the clear winner for me. In fact, it might have just gone to the top of the list. Would absolutely not consider buying new though. 10k+ is criminal.
An older video which I am catching up on but thanks for this one and all that have followed. Chapeau sir
Thanks a ton for this. It's hugely appreciated 🙂🙂🙂❤️
Great review!! The % increase per year argument is brilliant and objective 👍🏻🙌🏻
Glad you liked it. You never know with math how people are gonna go.... 😂😂😂
The math is awesome, but the numbers on AP and Patek are not relevant if the market value is not used. Considering you have to buy gray or have thousands of dollars of spend history to get those watches at list price, the list price is fiction
All good points
Thanks for the feedback 👍
Your spot on with the entire review. Especially on cost. $11K for steel and $14K for titanium. WTF IWC?
YUP...... 🤣
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch no worries, every iwc is available at your local boutique at 30% OFF
To be fair this watch has held its value quite well in the secondary market.
I got super excited on this new release as well and I couldn’t help myself laugh when I saw the price… Not happening!
Nope. Me neither 😃
If you like the Genta design, the Ingenieur is a great option, and I certainty enjoyed my time with the watch when I had an earlier iteration....it is a very good watch. It isn't worth comparing it to the Nautilus or Royal Oak since they are in different price points and attract different customers. That said, your criticism about its high retail price is spot on.
Fair point. My thinking is IWC wants to move a little up the food chain and took a little bit too big of a step with the initial pricing.
And I do appreciate the design og this watch. Like I said, it's very well made. It just doesn't resonate personally. I feel the same way about Porsche. I appreciate their cars but I've never personally appreciated the "porsche 911" design...
👍😀
Genta also designed the Cartier Pasha.
True. He was really prolific
😀
At the time of this review I wonder if the maker of this video actually own or at least have handled the actual watch? I assumed no, as If not, everything he said is probably just his personal opinion and very bias because he is opioning on something he did not actually handled in reality, much less owned.
The Royal Oak and Nautilus are both better designs and way more iconic. No doubts about it. But let's be fair, even at the current "What are you thinking?" price level of the Ingenieur, it's still 2X to 3X cheaper and that hasn't even factor in grey market pricing. And I don't think the RO and Nautilus are like 2X to 3X a better watch as I also own them besides the Ingenieur. It's really down to personal opinion ( and bias ).
And drawing comparison of the pricing with the pilot watch with the same movement is a moot point because that watch is way less in terms of finishing and dial attractiveness.
Agree 100%. Yes it’s a Gents but not at this price!
IWC just isn't in a position to command that kind of price premium...
The Ingenieur is trying to catch up on pricing as what IWC see as her peers
True. They just accelerated too fast.... 😀😂
Well the second hand Market will determine if the pricing is fair or hyped up ….The aquanaut and nautilus had the same movement and there was a pretty big delta but again the bracelet option was there for 5711 ..As a collector of all integrated bracelets in just glad IWC released a good iteration
True that. We'll see. My money is it being under retail, but will definitely depend on how many they put into circulation....
Thanks for sharing 😀👍
Spot on! Top review 👍🏻
Glad you enjoyed it 😀🤜
Same here for this price I go for a GO SeaQ panorama date for example!
Good call. I'm partial to the smaller SeaQ even though it doesn't display the movement which is a shame... 😊😊
Great review and agree completely
Thanks! Appreciated 😀
Yup, the watch is nice but too pricey-it’ll be much cheaper on the secondary market. In this case IWC is a day late and a dollar short 😎! Another great take-best regards.
I'm going to be curious what the pricing is like on the secondary for sure. That will also depend on whether it is in some way limited in production in practice. We'll have to see, but put my money on it hitting 9K on secondary.
Well said!
Thx!!!!! 😀
While none of the 3 Genta watch appeal to me, this one appeals the list. It just looks old fashioned, not vintage, even if it's the one that went through the most changes since its release.
On a separate note, I like your numbers oriented videos. Please keep them comming.
Big fan of your channel, Mike. It really cuts through the marketing BS and speaks to watch enthusiasts. I always look forward to each video you put out.
I'm in the market for an integrated steel watch so naturally im considering this new ingenieur amongst other watches like the defy skeleton, chopard AE and the Laureato. But now having second thoughts with your strong thoughts on the price point. Am i better served looking at the others or something else?
Thanks - Really appreciated.
Tough call. Everything is kind of expensive by now. Personally I just have a tough time justifying a steel IWC at that price.
They're all great watches. My favorite is the Defy skeleton, followed by the laureato. But it's honestly not about what I like - It's what YOU like. And if you think it's an ok price for you - well, then that's totally ok - for you.
Don't know if that helps, but that's my thinking at least. Cheers 😃
@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch thanks Mike. Would be looking forward to your hands on review of the ingenieur.
Spot on!! IWC greed, milking the Genta name while the Ingenieur never sold well, hence they discontinued before.
It definitely needed some time off the market due to the way they had screwed it up under Kern....
🤦♂️
Thanks for sharing 😀
Great watch. Isn't perfect and over priced (like most things) but a great watch - just wear one!
At 8.000, I'll buy one 😀
Spot on
Thanks! 👍
It’s gorgeous. Sadly way out of my price range 😢 especially in Canadian dollars.
Don't get me started. In the US this is 11.700. In my local currency it converts, for the steel version, to 14.000 USD. That's a whole lot of moose meat....
Thanks for stopping by 😀👍
You reviews are very insightful, and considered. Packed full of information, sprinkled with opinion, great job. This is a watch I want to like, and I might feel different when I see it on the wrist. However, the asking price puts it up against plenty of other high quality watches. It's one I hope to find second hand after a dose of depreciation(ever the optomist🙈)
I appreciate that! 😀
no not unfair , but the iwc ing. is even as you said not the best looking of the 3 industrial design gentas, it is available. secondly , double the price of a mark xx, yes, but if you look at the general price increase of other high end manufacturers like jlc( double their prices at some modells in one year ) or even cartier ( here with nearly 10% per year , 5% in spring , 5% in winter) just wait 10 years under you have 100% more ( by the way exactly the time when last iwc ing came out) so i guess iwc just take their 10 years price increase in one step and when you look at the 2013 price for an iwc ing just 6000 euros now 12.000, it’s only 5% per year) anyway, why i am going to buy this beauty despite your wishful 8.000 and not more , it’s not gonna be cheaper in the future for no high end watch, and at the end it is a genta , and there are only 3 from him in this area… so i am quite sure no one will loose money with this new iwc ing…
Thanks for sharing 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch my pleasure and hopping some points of my last sms could catch your view just a little bit 🙂🫶
Does the butterfly have micro? If not then they really messed up. But the biggest eff up is a starting price of 12k and an extra 3 for titanium. What are they thinking? Beautiful watch. I will never pay 12 for one, would have paid 8 at a push.
The butterfly does not have micro adjustment. You can get a regular fold over clasp (identical to the one on the mark xx) that has microadjustment but that does not give you the clean, sleek aesthetic of the butterfly.
Pretty sure they came up with it as an afterthought…. 🤦♂️😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch yes they rushed on a video for the adjustment clasp after the backlash 😂
I like my new Ingenieur more than my RO, it’s just more rugged and feels better on the wrist
Stupendo!! 🔝🔝🔝
Absolutely 😀
Agree about the high price, but in the range of the Glasshutte diver or the Bathyscaphe by Blancpain or a fifty fathoms. I also think that IWC is the perfect brand for an engineer tool watch. It’s more credible as a tool watch than the Nautilus or the Royal Oak. And more under the radar and discreet. Don’t get me wrong, I wish it was cheaper …,but if I had 12.700 euros to spend on a watch… I think it would be the new ingénieur.
The watch continues to grow on me every time I see it. It is a very nice watch for sure 😀
Insightful and thorough analysis. Indeed a beautiful watch but way overpriced. $8.5k maybe?
8.5k and I'm sold 😃
Although I think they really messed up with the butterfly clasp when launching this, it is otherwise a beautiful watch. But, yes, the price is way too much!
I wonder - are there any butterfly clasps that come with quick adjustment?
You’re totally right on the price.
Thanks for sharing. Don't know if I'm glad, but it seems most people agree...
You're saying all this becauae u haven't worn one on your wrist i have tha royal oak and the nautilus and i added this one to my collection ... the price is very fair and the finishing is excellent worth every penny.
I have actually worn it. And I stand by my assessment, but at the end of the day you buy what you like and vice versa. As it should be 😀
I know you have a lot of people agreeing with you here but I disagree. Price is not ridiculous.
How much is a 41mm datejust? 10,500.
Can you actually buy a Daytona? How much are people actually paying for Daytona.
What about the Nautilus? Can you or I go buy a nautilus? 😂 Probably not. How much are they actually selling for? ALOT more than what you are projecting here.
The is Ingenuier is vastly different in design from the older models and don’t understand why people are complaining about the price for this amazing design.
Have you seen it? Have you put it on the wrist? This thing is perfection. You can hate on the price all you want but at least you have a great shot of wearing this one, yet here you guys are complaing. Good Luck with the other models you speak about at retail. On paper you make sense, in reality you do not.
IWC targets watch people with Genta's name, because no normal person knows who Genta was. Yet, all watch people know that this watch is overpriced, because watch people generally know watches and their prices. So... who is this watch for? Watch people who are ok with overpaying for watches?
Well said.
Good point. Most people wouldn't have a clue who Genta was.... 👍
CAGR for Omegą Speedmaster Professional for that exact same time period is roughly 7,7%
It might be slightly overpriced but I think that should be subjective. I've watched reviews and and first impressions after the watch was released and most of them criticise the price - fair enough but it was bad across all of them that I completely disregarded Ingenieur as an option for me. Went to ad last week to look and possibly buy the new Omega Speedmaster FOIS, they had Ingenieur on the display in Aqua colour and just for fun I've asked to try it on. Fell in love, don't know why, not sure, but that's how it is with watches sometimes. It's my next purchase
How about Alpine Eagle?which one you go for?
Ingenieur 😀
I actually love this watch...but do agree the price hike is uncanny and unruly...with that said used are much better priced they lose a lot of value soon as you walk out that door
No you are not being unfair. They will sell for a while until the hype dies. Personally I think Nautilus is a yawn and this no better. Nice but meh. In the end it is only 'sort of' Genta and 'sort of' in-house and that commands no premium. There is no 'real thing' element for enthusiasts with this. In 12 months a well-cared-for piece at half this boutique price will be a decent buy if you like it enough.
At half price I would buy it. That price has really put me off...👍
Positioning. Exit liquidity if your Rorschach eye sees a credit crunch; keeping up with future CPI if it see's CB's suddenly having to drop to zero bound. Who'dve thunk it; IWC is running AND front running an horological high beta fund.
Perhaps....
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Aint much perhaps to it when BBerg posts headlines such as, "Top Swiss Watch CEOs See Gloomy Outlook As Demand Woes Materialize". What do we get when we add 1 to 1? A scramble and suddenly the "high and mighty" gotta dance for their supper for a change. Thats why we're getting these crowd pleasers. There is no pathway to a positive outcome economically without significant pain and there is a rolex glut i would argue, not a shortage. In all cases, the tide's rolling out. Now we see who has any speedos on at all. Grabbing my popcorn.
I don't see inferior tech like a soft iron cage instead of a silicon hairspring and therefore no see-thru caseback etc justify CHF 12k.
Clasp is also not adjustable.
It's a cool watch, but not for that money.
Btw: like your pace an density of Information. I don't want to spend an hour like on many other channels.
We agree completely on the watch.
Thanks for the feedback as well. I try to cram as much in as possible with as little redundant information. Glad you like the style
And of course---- Thanks for stopping by! 👍👍👍
About 2k too much ill say but finishing compared to mark 20 is at a different level and that deserves dollars. AP and Patek prices are multiple times more
I smell Richemont behind this, demanding their watch brands make more money. Cartier and JLC have had some whopping price increases over the last 17 months. Vacheron's increases aren't so noticeable but then, they have started at a higher level anyway. Lange: The Saxonia Thin has gone from £13k to £22k over the last five years or so. The Lange 1 is £43k which is a huge increase on prices four or five years ago. I am a JLC fan but their prices have gone up so much I can't afford my favourites anymore and I would be damned if I would pay all that extra for the same watch. I suspect, if they keep on increasing like this, a "market correction" will occur sometime in the next few years.
You're probably not far off in that assessment 😊
Excellent review. Bland looking and overpriced. The Defy Skyline is better looking for less ($9k USD) - however - the 10 second dial will give me seizures. IWC definitely dropped the ball here as they could have taken some GG "design liberties "and made the bezel (boring!) much more interesting. Thanks and cheers!
We're totally in sync 😀😀😀😀😀
Cheers !
date window at 9 o’clock?
I could always do without the date on a watch but many can't.....
Like it even if its 'not the best Genta' its still a Genta, and hits me the same. HOWEVER.....
Needed an open caseback, needs better bracelet / quick release options (see Zeniths Defy Skyline as perfection)
and most importantly a CAGR of 1% at the most. MSRP should be 7-8K MAX
see for me the AP and the Patek don't do it for me. This one does! I love the teal version, it feels more "fun" to me than the AP or PP. I also love the Oris Kermit you showed off too.
I dunno about that Kermit. Haven't seen it up close so I'm on the fence for now. Dig the propilot in general though. It is a fun approach though 🤣😀👍
Great review, IWC has lost the plot on the Genta concept!
lol. 😂
The only thing they could have done better on the design is put the IWC logo at the 12 in that art dec font like the original genta. They should have thrown their branding rule out for this watch to respect the design
Agree, this is the least iconic of Genta's designs. IWC is clumsily trying to elevate its status to be in the same league as the Royal Oak and Nautilus. I don't think it's going to fly.
That’s my thinking as well.
I’m totally ok with IWC trying to move “upmarket”.
You have to take it in steps and can’t just aim for the end state in one shot. Gotta raise the temperature on the frog slowly or the frog jumps out of the water….
Thanks for sharing
👍😀
It’s should sell over 18000 to be fair.
A entry level Rolex sell over 20000, why not sell 18000?
Patek, AP all not in-house but JLC modified movement, no one care
18.000 for steel watch from IWC? That's expensive... but yeah. The model in the hands of Patek or someone else, then maybe....
Mike--the date window is at 3:00, not 9:00.
$8500 retail it'll sell like hot cakes. It's a shame. More than $10k you are looking at different class of buyers now, and IWC is not competing with Patek and AP.
Exactly - Check out the latest morgan stanely report. IWC declined in 2023 😃😃
So many tight arses are whinging about the price !! Firstly it is not worth comparing it to anything as it is what it is. I think its absolutely stunning, the beauty is in the simplicity and for those who appreciate that. It is not targeted at everyone of course so if its not your thing that’s fine, you don’t need to try and rubbish the watch and the price, just don’t buy it! I think its beautiful for many reasons and I feel that the price is fair so I will buy it and the aqua dial is spectacular for me. Have just put a deposit on it at a boutique and can’t wait to receive it even though it may take a while. We all have opinions but it’s important to remember that we have have different styles and budgets so the release of this watch was not meant to target a Pilot Mark xx customer at that price point obviously
Bvlgari Octo is a Genta design as well.
true
IWC when it comes to sports watches are wildly overrated. muhle are not far behind. i’ve never been so unimpressed with anything as when I tried on the markXX “how much” you’ve got it absolutely spot on this is by far the worst of the Genta and it’s wildly overpriced.
I'll stick with my Ingenieur Mission Earth that I bought used for just over $4k, and my Pilot Chronograph Le Petit Prince. 12K is too much.
I’m with you, that’s for sure 😀👍
Swiss watch brand is making a lazy cash grab? When did THAT start?
First time I hear. Hopefully it won't catch on. 😃😂
I hate the diver-esk crown guards the IWC designer is so proud of. And it is to big for a watch that is nowadays rather an elegant (but sporty) dress watch.
The original design in 38 mm, with the new symmetrical bezel, as material hardened titanium and a technically modernized, easy to change and size bracelet: this was my choice.
The crown guards are a thing for me as well. 38mm like you said would be a huge improvement - integrated bracelets wear large generally!
Thanks for sharing 👍👍
Agree. I don't care at all about this watch. Even more so because it is absurdly overpriced. Huge misstep by IWC. This ill-conceived release damages the brand.
It does.... It just comes off as greedy or something... 🤦♂️
Baume riviera is 3.5k , the question is how much is the bracelet and clasp on the IWC really worth ? It’s great watch but a 6k watch tops. I was a little boy in the 1970s but what I do know is that people are wildly overplaying the reaction back then. my dad was a bricklayer he had a patek. ML and RW both mid 70s but little love.
i paid 10k for this, no regrets so far
It is a very nice watch 😀😀
A fool and their money as the saying goes. Haha
I have never understood the attraction to IWC.
Get it at a discount at around 8750 and it's unbeatable. Common...
They may fixed the design but ruined it with a high price and out of house movement.
Took the words right out of my mouth 😀
How can you review a watch you never touched? You work only on (others) pictures?!
Thank you for the fair question.
All the watches in the playlist “watch reviews” are watches that I have had hands on.
I have some access to watches through some AD’s locally and abroad that give me access because of a good relationship - but do not let me borrow or film the watches. Additionally I have one or two other personal connections that give me access. In both cases this access is sometimes a little delayed compared to what the major youtubers can deliver on.
As examples of that the Nomos video I did was almost two months after the initial release of the watch as that was the time it took to get in the hands of someone I knew. This I week I have been to the AD and checked out the Bb54 and will be ready with a video next week. (Tudor generally has watches in store same day as they officially announce them). I have not done a moonswatch video review because - I have never bothered to ask a person in a swatch store to take them out of the case (and they aren’t available locally).
I would love to be in the position eventually to both have long term access, to up my filming quality by using my own B-roll.
Until that time, I have to make do with press photos from the manufacturer only (as I don’t want use stills from other publications if it all possible).
As to general commentary on watches, I feel that much like Theo & Harris, ID guy and others, I have no qualms in sharing opinions or thoughts on watches in general based on press, hype or other media without having had hands on.
I have no doubt that I could grow my channel more and faster with better personal B-Roll as it will add not only variety to the videos but also, as you allude to, lend credibility to my positions - so hopefully I can make that a part of my proposition sooner rather than later.
Thanks again for the question. As I stated, it was a fair one.
Hope to see you come back another time.
But before you go: What do you think of the price of the Ingenieur and my take on that specifically?
The original lugs and no crown guard gave the watch more character, these lugs work on the nautilus because of the octagonal bezel but they don’t go well with the Ingenieur’s circular bezel. Imo they should have stuck to the original design.
That's an interesting insight. I can see what you mean. The crown guards also felt a little off to me.
👍😀
None of the Genta don’t talk to me…
Haters gonna hate😂
It is what haters do.... 🤣
Buying a watch is about passion more than anything else. If you like it & the brand resonates to you then buy it. For me, I can't see the actual value in buying any Genta steel watch. You are over paying more for the marketing and brand name than realistic production costs. The profit margin on Genta design is criminal. I absolutely agree that he was a genious but not necessarily that his designs are timeless. It's just that social media has made the Nautilus & RO very famous & popular. The celebrities & top 1 per cent have been seen wearing them and now everyone wants in. If you offered either watch to me 20 years ago I would have puked at the garish 1970s geometric design, and rejected it as much as the Brady Bunch's wooden panelled station wagon. I think all this Genta hype and copying the design across all brands now is a fad more than anything else. It's a cash cow. I'm frankly sick of it. IWC are 20 years too late. I don't think their interpretation of Genta design is neither good or bad. It's just indifferent which makes it boring. If they marketed as heavily as Patek & AP then maybe consumers would have taken more warmth to it. Design is a language and like any spoken language it's best adopted when at a young age, otherwise people's taste are not accustomed to a variant of a design language they're already familiar with. It just becomes copy cat. Bastardized at best. My experience with IWC is that growing up I'd always seen it on conservative wrists. Worn by people in the engineering or technical field. People who want a reliable luxury watch but are too conservative to display wealth or celebrate success. The suppressed, hard working guy that puts in the long overtime hours without cutting corners or taking short cuts. The engineer, scientist, doctor, pilot, accountant. Guys whose occupations require years of study and analytical mind to the extent of boredom. The last guy I seen wearing an Ingenieur was a very risk averse, ultra conservative bank CEO. As I shook his hand and by his personality and seeing the watch on his wrist, I knew exactly the man I was about to enter a meeting with. He also drives a Volvo. Need I say more.
Volvo and IWC. I see the analogy. 🤣
As for this constant retreading of old designs, it can get a little tiresome and some brands are definitely worse than others. Give me a Mark XX any day over the Ingenieur...
Thanks for sharing. Really appreciated 👍
I think it should have been around 8 k
My dream price 😃
agreed on overpriced. i have iwc pilot spitfire, reasonable price and panerai blue notte, overpriced but my first panerai. the ingenieur is just not iconic enough to justify the price
To all of you "it's too expensive" whiners, why is this too expensive at less than $12k when the yachtmaster 42 RLX costs more and no one is screaming that? Similar materials, accuracy ... The octo roma, the GP are ugly AF. The Oris? Please. The iron eagle? Why is that better? The overwhelming majority of people who are saying X watch is better are not watch makers, have never seen the inside of a watch case, unless display,mhave never serviced or worked on a watch etc... Not in house? Does Richemont not own Val Fleurier? So silly..
Don’t get me started unreasonable premiums on titanium watches…. Yachtmaster, Seamaster 300m no time to die, octo finissimo titanium
Oh well, have to spend my money on something…..
Thanks for sharing 😀👍
lol
Mind telling us what’s the movement inside your new Ingenieur?😴
@@ivanoschen the movement in use is well documented. I do not own one. nor do i expect to. Just presenting facts. Your "lol" and nothing else, or anything of value, reinforces those facts.
@@AcmeRocket You hardly present or neglect some important “facts” I’m afraid, not to mention “value”.
@@ivanoschen thanks Edward!
Jezus..., that was rugged. Seems like they touched a nerve. Honestly, i Like the thing.
Afaic, it's a PP or a Royal Oak that i can Afford, withOut having to drop out of the homology-watch class entirely.
How can you be So p*ssed about IWC's price on This watch, but it's okay what AP, PP or Chopard get, respectively, for their's?
In your opinion
That is the premise of any channel reviewing stuff, Yes. 😂
Well after listening to you gibber on about this watch I am delighted I don’t share your views. The Nautilus was badly managed, for decades they only made it for girly sized wrists!
IWC have some nice looking watches. This is not one of them. The movements are either modified Selita/ ETA or otherwise outsourced in their most popular models. This begs the question, why are they charging so much for them? It’s simply not good value.
Everybody thinks they can charge more these days.... 😂😂😂
It’s a watch… at the end of the day, nothing should be worth more than the materials it took to make them (Nothing is worth it). This watch is worth it to those who want it and that’s who it was made for.
Overrated. Overpriced. Over the hype.
Bingo!
To be honest … I think the new IWC Ingenieur it’s absolutely amazing- marvelous and stunning. If you really handled you see the finishing is top notch…to me, the price is absolutely justified. The titanium IWV Ingenieur is the perfect piece … the bracelet is the best you can find in the market . Period.
IWC are trying to monetize people’s emotions here.
true
Lange should be in holy trinity, not AP with one watch in collection. They are just one trick pony
Tend to agree 😀 It's a nice pony though 😂
Too small,. Massive missed opportunity. Feels like a toy.
The Genta designs are so overrated!
I like a lot of his designs but I don't buy into mindlessly assuming that just because it's a Genta, that automatically makes it beautiful.... 🤦♂️
The royal oak and naut are nice … the rest suck balls … espceiylly the omega and this
@@sergezerkinyou have never even seen the ingeniur in person
I genuinely flat out think the Nautilus is not a pretty design, the RO almost grew on me but the band is proportionally too wide and the build quality in person just didn’t sell me on its price, not even at MSRP. The bracelet link design is very cool and original however.
I actually don’t mind the Ingenieur because it’s reasonable priced and not overplayed. If you put RO finishing side by side with say Lange Sohne, it should maybe be a $22k watch, max.
They’re iconic
I'm gonna have to disagree about the design. I think it's just as good looking as the RO and N. The N is my least favorite in fact. The big benefit is the IWC Ing. is actually available. Good luck buying the other two. The main issue IWC has is that they don't have the silicon hairspring tech, which forces them to use an iron cage on this model. Eventually the patents will expire though, and IWC will be able to use the anti-mag tech. When the Ing. comes with a display case back and silicon hairspring, I'll be picking one up. I'm guessing it'll just be a few years.
I love IWC and own two recent models but they're prices increases and annually adjusted price are out of hand, so I went elsewhere with my money. It's a money grab to a certain extent, it's over priced because the watch community is growing and growing and growing.
True - It's getting a bit greedy 😃😃😃
Every watch is overpriced! 90/100 K for a 5711 is ok? 60 K for a royal oak is ok? 35K for a Daytona 126500LN is ok? 18/20K for a gmt pepsi is ok?ecc. ecc. 😅
Exactly... i mean, Timex is a bargain, but what is the point Here?
WAY too expensive for what you're getting. Pilot Mark XX is the same watch, with the same movement, for half the price. Just don't see paying an extra $6K for . . WHAT??
Exactly! 😃😃