I would have thought with all the old iron you work on, you'd have a distributor machine. I loved those things back in the day. Mark your rotor, pull the complete distributor out and tune the dwell on the stand, then spin it up on the machine and see if the arrows hold steady throughout the RPM range. If the arrows started jumping around you knew you'd get a misfire in the car, so whatever it was needed to be fixed on the stand.
I had almost forgotten about these machines. When electronic distributor components came around, I always went with the high tech methods and installed the point eliminator kits and then later I would buy the whole distributor.
Points distributors are so simplistic that a test stand would be a waste of money today. If a guy worked on mag distributors also, then maybe purchase a machine...
I really enjoyed watching this video, the old 389 acting cranky for Nick. I've worked on a few GTO's over the years, and sometimes they have done the same to me. It was a pleasure watching Nick sort out the issues, and finally get the engine running smoothly, and making some decent HP, with a basically stock setup. Back in the day I used to carry some matchbooks around with me, and also a nail file, that I could use in an emergency to gap, and file my points. The matchbook cover was about .017 which would put me in the ballpark on the dwell setting until I could put in a new set of points, and set the dwell with my meter. That little trick saved quite a few times when the points would fail, and leave you on the side of the road. George, this video was simply amazing, the music, production, and editing were all first class! I have watched a lot of videos on UA-cam, and nobody even come close to the quality of the videos on Nick's Garage
I had three got.did like you did with a match box and a nail file worked pretty good one of them had a dual points what a night mare worked when you could get them set thanks for your comment
Yep! I too put many a set of points in the old goats. I made a lot of money tuning new goats for my buddies as work who ran them hard. My old 390 Mercury Cyclone would do circles around the old goats. They were good cars though and we all have a spot for them in our hearts. Thanks, Nick for bringing back old memories.
PS the first Electronic ignitions didn't work well either. They got hot and you were walking. Used to tell my customers to pour water on the brain box and if they had none just pee on the dam thing. 9 outa of 10 times it got them in without a wrecker.
Lost count of the number of points I gaped with a match book and my bet is Nick has done the same. I had a friend back in the day that had a Bonneville 2+2 that would pull the wheels off the ground in second with a 389.
Nick, love everything you do on your channel !!!!!! Not many Old School Guys like you around . I'm an ol Tin Indian Fan ,and love watching the ol Pontiac come to life.....I'm an ol 1970 GTO owner in my younger days ....brings back alots of memories.....Keep' em Running Nick ...God Bless You....
Great video. This is exactly how I observed my Dad working in the garage on problems, with a positive attitude and a healthy mixture of fear and aggression. This is what it is all about: the journey!
Good morning Nick , good ole points , people ask me if I remember using a dwell meter and I just smile and say it's been awhile . Since i work on all year models I still keep the knowledge lol on the older setups. Using the petronix point replacement is great , I have used them on an old Farmall tractor. Thank you for working as hard as you do to bring us such a great video. Take care and keep a thrashing . 👍
The 1966 GTO 389 was nice street engine.They respond well to ignition timing mods(Royal Bobcats distributor weights with lighten springs for quicker advancing of timing). Factory compression ratios were 10.75 to 1. Pontiacs always ran hot ! I had a 1966 GTO 4 speed and enjoyed it !
I had a 66 GTO 389 posi traction rear end Hurst four-speed shifter beautiful looking car nice lines for its day always ran hot always had a problem with the ignition ! Points what a crap invention that was today's a new day new technology get rid of the points !!! Go have some fun ! Hey GOAT hold it !! 😂
Nick , nice job on the “66 GTO. I worked on my 65 GTO from 1966 to 1980, including an engine rebuild I did myself. When you asked what’s the dwell on the points, I yelled out, “30” from Sunnyvale, CA, otherwise known as Silicon Valley‼️ I still have my dwell meter. I used it on all my hot rods. Thanks again for the great video . I too have gone in circles changing out old points, and installing new points that wouldn’t work. Drove me crazy. I hope to visit your shop someday . Keep up the great work. Thanks, Tom
I was ready to throw a wrench in your honor Nick. It actually helps me when you encounter a PITA job. But you never give up! As I said last week…”One week closer to vacation!” Hope you all have a good week.
I was a fifth generation high plains country boy who grew up with a dwell meter and a set of straight leaf feeler gauges. I raced Pontiac 389, 400, and 455 motors in a mid-sixties Catalina on 3/8 dirt circle track strictly stock absolutely with Wesleyan ingenuity, honesty, and integrity. I used Reagan era American made parts and tools. I don't recall my cars never starting or not running exceptionally better than my competition. Waiting for this clown show to end was absolute torture. However, my guess is that this production is a metaphor for never ending NAFTA failures This production reveals a poignant end to dominant American performance exceptionalism. Thank you Nick Panaritis. You have confirmed my understanding that past American made products and their constituencies were once significantly greater performers.
Uni points belong in the trash. You can't use a feeler gauge with them. He had a brand new set of blue point points with a separate condenser. Should have looked for a screw to hold the condenser and been done with it.
I had a 66 GTO with a 389 4 in the floor when I was 17 that was in 1972. It was gold and had white bucket seats and black carpet and I absolutely loved that car. Hey Nick I forgot to tell you that I bought a 65 Dodge Dart GT and I’m very excited to have an A body. I can’t wait to get it running and driving since it’s been sitting in a garage the last 15 years.
The nice thing about GM cars was that you could adjust the points with the engine running. Just roughly set them and connect a dwell meter and adjust them.
With the GM window distributors it wasn’t too bad if you had a dwell meter. Open the window, put an Allen wrench in the bolt on the points base, and adjust the dwell.
@@CrazyPetez That's it. Sure beat the crap out of trying to get them set right with a feeler gauge. Dwell meters weren't too expensive in those days. I think every shade tree mechanic had one. I had an Allen wrench that was on a spring with a screwdriver type handle.
@@williamjones4483 I never used a feeler gauge, teacher in voc. tech. school showed us how you could use a matchbook cover to gap the points. With the added advantage of cleaning any contaminant oil like you find on feeler gauges off the contacts!
I own a 66 tempest. Bought when I was 19. I'm 54 now..still love it..still drive it.. Has a 406 CI ..400 out i Of a 76 grand Prix freshened up block...th 400 trans. Runs 12 s On motor..set up for spray.. Stock bottom end forged pistons. I built the motor over 18 year's ago..street raced track raced .. sprayed..a bunch 210 shot...👍👍👍
Nick, back in the early 1970's here in the UK I worked at a Ford main dealer and at that time we only had points to work with on 99% of cars that came into the shop for tuning. Some distributors even had dual points. I used to do all the electronic engine tuning using a Sun Tester 1120 machine (a ground breaking piece of kit in those days). Common problems with new sets of points were: (A) Caused by not wiping the anti corrosion oil film off the contact faces. (B) Having a poor earth on the distributor base plate (the points screw down directly onto the base plate) which would cause a voltage drop. (C) Poorly aligned contact faces - more common than you think. (D) Lack of grease on the distributor cam lobes causing the points heel to wear away thus closing the points gap. (E) Excessive distributor shaft side play causing the points gap to alter or scatter as we called it as the engine climbed the rev range. (F) Incorrect points dwell angle which can effect (lower) the coil output KV and finally, condenser failure. This can cause arcing/burning across the points face or even a non start situation. Properly installed and gapped (dwelled) points were usually good for at least 6000 miles! P.S. I would pay a tidy some for a half decent 1120 machine to use on my classics! Great channel. DP
The guy who rebuilds your carbs does a fantastic job, it looks like new and probably works like new too. It's called pride in your work and going the extra mile to be the best.
I work on vintage motorcycle carbs, some of the very worst ones I've done 'look' real nice but were corroded to hell internally requiring a lot of extra work. There really isn't a 'bolt on replacement like in automotive where bolt spacing has been stasndardised since 1950's
It basically involves a good kit and a tank of bears men's carb cleaner best carb cleaner for doing carburetors I've literally probably done over a thousand carburetors one of my favorite things to do sometimes building two or three in one day and building a a few motorcycle carbs and a couple of really old antique ones I love the day of carburetors points and plugs I used to make my own plug wires because I used the best high grade wire I can find the sheet when I used to tune up the Mazda rotary
In the mid 70's I had a 66 GTO but went with an Accel ignition, Crower 3/4 cam, .060 TRW pistons, Hooker Headers and a 4:11 posi with a 2:20 Muncie 4 speed. Best time on Goodyear F70-14 was 13.90s close to 110. Love your channel.
Nick I used to race the four barrel GTO's with my 66 Cyclone GT 390 and I had no problem beating them in the 1/4mile. I think they only had bout 315 hp. My Cyclone had a 4 speed in it. The tri-power GTO's could beat me but they had 360 hp.
Nice. I own a 1969 Pontiac GP 455 Stroker (RHD) DownnUnder in Western Australia and DIG the hell out of it. Thanks for sharing your passion and workplace. A good setup you got there. Cool.
I've watched everyone of Nicks videos and have never seen him so frustrated! Gives a guy flashback to the bad old points days! Uncle Tony can keep them as far as I'm concerned. Back in the day the first thing I would do to a GM engine was install an HEI distributor and be loving life!!
Points back in the day were all over the board in quality. Probably what is left over are the junk and there was a lot of junk. People with doing dual points were like Wizards LOL! . Actually you set the gap and dwell half of the singles. I had a Mallory in a BBC and it worked great. Mallory's were very good quality distributors.
Surprised it didn't have the trip power on it it was the one I think was advertised at that? Been so long and I can't remember. I am surprised that Nick doesn't know, he is the walking encyclopedia of knowledge that he has forgotten more than most people know. God bless and keep on your mission Nick! You are a great treasure of my generation.
This was a really great episode Nick. Because there are days like those. When I was a kid they had a Sun distributor machine. Points float- I love Petronics- problem solved
Reminds me of the 326 of my brothers 67 firebird.His brother in law Steve Bachman rebuilt it back in 83 and let me help on assembly.That was my first time understanding how they worked.Made me a mechanic.Steve was a well known street racer back in the day around Sterling park in Virginia.Hes a mentor to me.
I had a '67 GTO.....400 with a Q-Jet and Turbo 400 Trans. Hurst Dual Gate shifter. It was pretty fast. Had many options....A/C power everything and front disc brakes. I can only wish I had it today. Sold it for about $1000 back in the early 1970's.......!!!! Today that car could be worth 50K or more I think ! One reason I sold it was it had a bad oil leak from the rope seal. I pulled the engine and replaced the seal and the cam and lifters. Had many little problems with the car that made me want to sell it. Like I said I wish I had it today and I'd fix whatever problems it had...P.S. there is a neoprene seal available for them to get away from the rope I believe.....
I had a “65” GTO Convertible 4 speed, I loved,it was taken from me by a drunk driver who slammed into me as I waited at a railroad crossing for a train to pass. Your video brings back a lot of memory’s I had with my then girlfriend now my wife of 44 years! Wish I still had that car! To your testing, it sounds like your starter needs to be shimmed a bit,it’s binding on the flex plate/ flywheel.
So sorry about your 65 GTO. I had mine from 1966 to 1985. Married 27 years to first wife and going on 20 years with #2. Take care. Enjoyed your comment. Tom, The Class of 1965. Carlmont HS, Belmont, CA
My father bought a 1969 Gto brand new for 2600 Dollars RIGHT FROM THE DEALER IN FORT KENT MAINE WHEN HE GOT OUT OF VIETNAM 400 SMALL BLOCK I BELIEVE, VERY NICE-MOTOR YOU HAVE THERE NICK DANG AWESOME
@@JamesSterling yeah, it probably was a 66. I remember this girl driving it up to where we were partying and it was just sweet. It was a 389 Tri Power, still had the original paint, had one tiny little dent on the passenger door. She got it for graduation gift from her parents but her dad was the original owner.
Had a 73 catalina with a 400 that used to eat points. Kept a spare pre-set uni-sets in the glove compartment with a flashlight and some tools. Have the girlfriend hold the light. Great vid. Took me back to the old days. I guess us old guys remember some of this old tech. Thanks
Distributor machines are nice to set them up and make sure they are perfect before going on the engine. I've never had a problem with points ignition. Most of the time a new set of Blue Point points are correctly set right out of the box.
I'm with you here, This GM Delco ignition isnt old school to me, that carburetor is old school. Should be TBI at the minimum everywhere. Every shade tree around here is running Edlebrock out of the box dead rich at light throttle cruise, its a shame and it stinks too. Another problem is guys running incorrect voltage to points or incorrect voltage to HEI. You don't want that resistance wire on an HEI or non-points unit. Conversely, you don't want START POSITION full voltage at the RUN position on a points car. Very basic stuff. - Sandy - the aging car mechanic
all my years of being a mechanic nick its so hard to do is just walk away come back the next day i have spent hours working on something that's or should be really simple walk away go back the next morning and fix it in 5 minutes i remember old timers telling me many times to do that i have learned it works for me unbelievable done it many times i think we get so aggravated it gets to the mind. just walk away go back the next day
A Hall-Effect sensor can not handle the current required that the coil needs to consume. One would need a bunch of other electronic components along with a hall-effect sensor to make that work. At that point, one might as well just purchase a ready to run electronic aftermarket distributor. They can be had for as low as $50 for a cheap one.
@@vinjank - I hear ya, Mike. I hope you get your hands on an old Pontiac motor & relive your 389 days…they’re equal to what Ponce de León was seeking. my dad has a few basket 389s that need building, plus a tri-power 389 in a Red ‘64 GTO 4-speed & a built 455HO waiting it’s turn in a Gold ‘64 GTO. I plan to build both 389s, even if they sit on stands for a bit. I’m over 40 & dad’s over 70, but we’re freaking middle-school boys when we beat old Pontiac 4-speeds.
I’m interested in finding a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (4-door 4WD) without an engine & augmenting it with a 389. that may be sacrilegious to some, but not to me. I’d be proud to pull that off. I’d carb it first, then consider an EFI kit. I put in a Holley Sniper on an AMC 304 in a CJ7 4-speed & it’s amazing. good luck…I hope something falls in your lap in a deal too sweet to turn down.
So enjoyed seeing you having issues with points. In my racing days 64-68 I fought them as well. Did my heart good to see you having some issues. BTW, this is Nick.
nick is always educational and entertaining. as someone who is even older than nick, i really enjoy visiting the good old days of big horsepower engines. i was a chevy man but also like mopars. kowalski rules.
Yes sir it did and a good friend of mine had one in a manual. He took the 389 out kept it and he put a built 400 in it. He passed away from bladder cancer and she sold of his collection of stuff and I don't know what the Son got if anything. God bless you all and have a great day tomorrow.
I am 71 and had a few early 1964 - 1967 GTO's and the exhaust manifolds on this are out of a 1967 GTO. I ran all the oem type carburetor combinations, including the Rochester Q-Jet. The AFB was a 625 cfm version from what I could tell at the beginning. In the end it was a AVS type, which is a good version of these. They never came on Pontiacs though. The 66 Tri-Power gave the best performance when setup correctly. Unless I am missing something, the single points should work well with enough dwell. This engine barely saw 5,000 rpm, not 6 or 7,000 rpm. We had setups in SBC's going to 7,900 rpm. I am not impressed on what I saw here...
I have a 65 389 with stock 2.5 exhaust at the manifolds. Totally agree with not raising up the compression all that much and less exhaust restriction keeps it running cool. Great video on that 389 and electronic always fixes for a smoother, higher rpm.
My family’s first car was a Pontiac Catalina, 1967 model year. It included new technologies like disc brakes and electronic ignition. My mother said the ignition failed on a trip when the car was new, and stranded them while the Pontiac dealer located a replacement ignition module.
Nick i know you know this trick, use a small piece of a manilla folder to gap your points it's perfect to get you running! Then you can adjust, i was really suprised that you did not go that route, your old school and i just know that you know these old tricks, by the way love your show, my passion is the 65-70 impala fat blocks, keep up the fine work, oh your Kowalski is the legend lives, go nick!.
I bet the condenser on the new points is junk if you took the condenser off the old points and put it on the new ones it will work. There have been many new condensers that are junk and I bet that is what is going on with the ones your using
points and condenser (non-polarized electrolytic capacitor) are likely both junk. not enough sales volume for it to be made worth a hill of beans, let alone one bean (how's that for old saying) ;)
That Pontiac blue is one the prettiest engine colors ever used. Therir 75-77 metallic blue is really nice looking too, the heavy metallic really pops with all the angle on an engine.
67 Pontiac Firebird 400 Quadrajet. TH 400 best of the beast back in mid '70s. Thank you for taking me back to the best of times Nick. Love watching you work your specialty. I'd like to see a '56 thunderbird 312 Y block- Holley 4bbl on your dyno.
Nick, Pontiacs are notorious for being under cammed by most builders. Raising the compression and keeping the cam that tame builds way too much cylinder pressure, aka: heat. Also the reason they eat starters, and you get the hard start issue. They don't have the best for cooling, as there are modifications i do that help a lot in these situations. Those exhaust manifolds are actually a Ram Air 3, 4 into 1 manifold. They are not standard stock exhaust manifolds. Hence the bigger collector. A stock exh. Manifold is 2.250". They also offer those "long branch" RA3 manifolds cnc ported. They work. Same style as the round port RA4. FYI, never offered on a 389. They are available aftermarket. The best tool in a pinch for points? A matchbook. Will get you running every time. Those stock Carter AFB carbs are tough to work with, but as a rated they are 500-550cfm. They do not actually flow that. In comparison, the Tri-power carbs are rated at 750cfm, from all three 2 barrels. Nice job. Actually just got done with a supercharged 440 going in a 70 cuda. Up on my instagram.. and here you are doing a Pontiac, my personal choice of race engines. @jrd_motorsports
The AFB was rated at 625 cfm on 1964 - 1966. The The 1964 & 1965 Tri Power (according to Rochester) flowed 814 cfm and the 1966 flowed 887 cfm. We ran the 1966 Tri Powers on 455ci. motors back in the early to mid 1970's for Street Racing. Worked very well with the RA IV camshaft and good 670 heads. This gave us around 12-1 compression. We always had to add some Av gas or race gas. The 670 heads (closed chamber) were the only Pontiac heads that liked a lot of timing. 42 - 44 degrees were what they liked. To keep them running somewhat cool. A 4 core radiator was a must, and nothing over 3.55's in the back. The 4 field starter is what we always used on these. Rarely a problem with them. For points, we used Mallory 102X, and set them up on a Sun machine, set the dwell at 35-36. By the time you hit 6,000 rpm, the dwell was around 30. You could not run anymore dwell than that, otherwise it started to effect the idle. I did the same for big Blocks and small blocks when helping others. Setting them up this way allowed for very high rpm without float. The Firebirds had the longer runner exhaust cast iron headers. We used to open up the collector area on these cast iron headers for extra flow. Hard to believe, that was around 50 years ago.
When those engines were new the rope seals were made from asbestos and they worked fine, since that material has been banned most rope seals (the ones that come in gasket kits) are made out of a fiber glass material and they cant handle the heat and virtually always fail after a few thousand miles. The "Best gasket company" graphite rope seal is the only rope seal you should ever use on a Pontiac engine, or better yet use the one or two piece viton seals that are also available for Pontiacs as well.
@@mitchellgrexa8225 the viton seals work great (particularly on the 400's) but I have seen issues with the seal cavity on the 455 not being machined entirely concentric and when that happens the viton seal can leak. The graphite rope seal gets packed into that cavity and so it doesn't care about imperfections and seals up perfectly.
@@maxpowerta3183 the reason a lot of 2 piece seals end up leaking is they need to be turned slightly so they don't line up with the parting line of the cap and block. A lot of people miss this small but significant detail.
I've always liked the 66-67 GTO and the other similar GMs with that same body style along with Pontiacs engine color and factory dress up kit,it's pretty sharp imo. Perseverance Panaritis at it once again and as usual it truly pays off in the long run! Great job guys,thank you again.
Awesome....Thanks Nick & George on the camera work....Nick some time around 1960's my Dad had an old ugly green and white Pontiac and for some reason l needed to barrow his car to go somewhere....Anyway l started it up and the whole car started to shake l shut it off and ask him why the engine was shaking so bad.....He said it was OK just drive it like that....So l did put it in first gear and it laid down rubber smoking the tires before l knew what was going....When l got back he smiled and said how did it drive.....Don't remember what l said to him back.... lol My Dad was Super....Thanks again.....!
Hey Nick where the same age I was born in 56 when I was always stationed at Camp Pendleton I bought mine platoon sergeant 72 Pontiac formula 400 the motor blew a few months later went to the Salvage yard picked up a 389 bought it out 40 over for a cool radiator Edelbrock intake carburetor what is screamer this car was an idle the fenders would rock back-and-forth nobody wanted to race me even the Corvettes when I was down in Vista California Friday nights all the Hot Rodder‘s would show up drove it all the way back to Rhode Island when I get out of the Marine Corps this brought back some memories thank you
I remember cruising in my buddy's father's 66 Goat when it was brand new with this same engine. It was an automatic with a "TempestTorque" 2 speed A/T (aka; Powerglide). A white hardtop with gold roof and interior. I thought it was SOOO gorgeous
I had a 65 GTO with a 400 in it, I bought the car after my brother passed away in 83. He had a 65 GTO when he was in the Marines in Viet Nam, after he was wounded and paralyzed from upper chest down, my Dad had to sell it. Having always had SBC/BBC I was disappointed in performance, should have kept car and put a BBC in it. Sold car more because it only seemed to add to grieving process I was going thorough at the time. Would love to see what Nick could do with this motor with Alum heads, decent cam and induction. Can't beat seeing an engine on the dyno, figures don't lie!
@@396375a I had a 65 tri power and a 66 4 bbl both with 389s. The big difference was the valvetrain. 67 and back had pressed in rocker studs and were adjusted to a torque setting. They had a tendency to creep out of the head and at high rpms 6k plus the lifters would pump up and float the valves. 67 and newer engines went to Chevy style valvetrain and were much more reliable. I believe the heads were interchangeable.
@@artszabo1015 Press-in rocker arm studs were used on the low performance Pontiac engines. Cylinder heads (valve angles were different on the 389-421 heads vs. 350-400-428-455 heads. In 1967, Pontiac changed to a “closed chamber” head design to address emission concerns. Because of the valve angles, valve-to-piston contact could occur unless you use a “universal” style piston with valve reliefs cut in the piston tops for either valve angle approach to the piston top. And pushing a Pontiac motor past 5500-5600 is senseless (unless you’re specifically build the engine for that purpose). Pontiac’s use a long rod length which dislikes RPMs. If you look at the torque curve on a Pontiac motor, you will find torque coming in at lower RPMs and in large amounts. Race-specific Pontiac motors such as the 303 and 366 were built with shorter deck heights, which in turn, used a shorter rod length. (similar to a SBC) in the Trans Am series on the late 60s - early 70s and could live happily in the higher RPM ranges.
@@charlestresp4959 With all due respect Sir, I believe you will find that the early 60's 421 Super Duty Pontiacs among others were definitely NOT 'low performance" engines. The new head design accurately described by yourself was a development brought out in 1967 for all Pontiac engines not just high performance. Even the 326 got them but 67 was the last year for it. In short Pontiac heads 66 and before had pressed in rocker studs. 1967 and later went to Chevrolet style. I owned and drove these cars when they were late models, and also worked as a professional mechanic back in those days. Art
Thanks for walking us through the troubleshooting, it’s nice to see the steps and use them as future reference if I run into the same. This is the kind of tech help that you only get by being there, but this channel helps open the world to all of us. I really appreciate the insight and experience and the time you take to share it with the community. Thanks Nick!
Hang in there Nick! Been there, done that too! Even ran a dual point Mallory, it was a real headache! That GM design was a great improvement over what it replaced. Went to Mallory first gen electronic system (Unilite?) They were a pain too!
Hey, Nick and crew!!! Happy Monday to you all!! Nick, I’m sure switching over from points is the sure way to go, however, on the replacement points you tried, I noticed that the condenser was slightly larger (diameter and length) than the original: I was just thinking that maybe, for THAT particular distributor, the larger condenser was physically interfering somehow. Anyway, I ALWAYS enjoy your videos: I grew up myself in the ‘points’ era, and I remember opening that little window to adjust the dwell with the engine running. Oohhh the memories!! 😄
Good afternoon folks. I really loved my 66 gto. It had a 74 400 2bbl from a Catalina when I bought it. I put 455 heads on it and a nasty cam, boy did that old goat go.... I haven't read all the comments, but am I the only one that noticed the exhaust manifolds on that beautiful beast? They didn't make too many of that style.
I had a friend my senior year in high school in 1979 that found a 1966 4sp trip-carb GTO in his drive way one day and discovered the keys in his house. His older brother had purchased the GTO at auction in Bristol VA where the story was the car had had every conceivable performance modification done to it over the years by the owner's mechanic, but upon the mechanic moving to northern Virginia the owner had elected to have the car returned mostly to stock for auction. One issue was on its last rebuild the replacement clutch was the wrong part requiring the car to be put back together with the old slipping clutch. The car's mechanic would be willing to replace the clutch free of charge once he was reestablished in Northern VA. I've now concluded this GTO was very much not stock. We took it out and it was almost out of gas and knew a car like this needed high grade premium so I had us go to a Sunoco and get the highest grade gas they had. Upon leaving the gas station may friend opened it up and I counted seconds and got to 4.5 to 60 mph, BUT I'd started at 1 not zero so it got to 60 in about 3.5 seconds. The car had rear tires that were about 10.5 inch wide and almost that tall. It would rev very well to about 4500 RPMs where is would become wide. At 5000 RPM it was like there was something alive trying to get out. Full power was probably about 6300 RPM. My friend would shift it about 6500 rpm, but once he said he missed it and it raved to 7,000 rpm. The car would push its rear axle down when under hard acceleration causing it to grip the pavement. Because of that with the tires the car had it could likely accelerate faster than 1G. There was one situation I remember in particular when my friend was driving the GTO and suddenly floored it and got the gear shift just right and we went from about 45 mph to 75 mph pushing my back into the frame of the seat flattening the springs that were there in something a little over a second. This was scaring because in Marrifield VA when they rebuilt the roads the cross roads at intersections had an extreme high crown that was hard to take at 30 mph and we were at 80 mph. My friend later took me for a ride where he intentionally came up on an intersection at 80 mph, back off the throttle then hit it hard to lift the nose the car over the crown with the rear suspension almost locked using the side walls of the tires to take the brunt of the impact and the car was surprisingly composed. The GTO was really slipping the clutch and as per the agreement my friend's brother took it into the mechanic to replace the clutch. I asked about the car and my friend said the mechanic was working on it at night. A few days my friend said the GTO and the mechanic had disappeared. Later he said the shop said they thought the mechanic was running drugs. It didn't sound perusable and I was thinking about having my dad call up the shop to see what was going on. A couple months later my friend said that two police detectives showed up at his house asking about the GTO which they referred to as the BLUE CAR. In turned out that the police were running a sting operation and the GTO had been key to the drug cartel (but maybe they weren't) getting away with $80.000 cash, which had been given out so quickly non of the serial number or marking protocols were followed and if it was not recovered a lot of important people were going to loose their jobs. It is a full length motion picture of how the GTO had the organization got away with it involving psyching out the police. By the end of the car chases some 50 police cars had been damaged, 1/3 were totaled, another 1/3 had to be towed for repair, and the other 1/3 were drivable, but not up to patrolling. I have to think the ability of that car to get over the high crown of cross roads in Norther Virgina played a part in the car getting away. At the end the detectives said the police were so hypnotized in trying to get the blue car the commander said to pull into a safe area and LET THE BLUE CAR GO. And they did. My friend went on for about 90 minutes on this story the police detectives told him. I'm guessing that GTO was likely running a big forged crank shaft. That would give the 389 about 460 ci displacement and allow it to rev high along with a performance cam. The exhaust was routed to exit just a head of the rear tires. There was the story from the auction that is was one of the last Pontiac street race cars. I noticed the front fenders seemed to be very thin,, but hard metal. I remember being pinned to the seat frame against my back as the car accelerated compressing the seat back springs. The sound that engine made as it went from 4500 rpms to 5000 rpms was like an animal wanting to get out. At 5000 rpms to 6700 rpms where my friend would shift it was hard to breath. After a while you didn't try. The report over the police radio on the sting operation from the operative was that the car had just disappeared. The cops where chasing it in crazy manic fashion because they wanted to catch it before it disappeared again. The $80,000 was police money and it had not been check out under normal procedure because of the perpetrates rushing the operation. We've never heard anything more about that 1966 trip-carb GTO.
Whoa! What's up with the Yellow Fury? Many of these Moms grocery getters came with 383 and 440s'. I had a 70 Road Runner did the same crap. But at least with Plymouth’s you could use a feeler gauge. These GMs know you’re a MOPAR guy, payback….
I had a 73 GTO with a 400, a pin hole in the oil filter on the way home from work cost the 400. I put a 1968, 389 out of a Catalina, with the turbo 400 behind it, this ran better than the original. yep it had points, but I had a set of angled and narrow tipped feeler gauges.. Made me think what a pain they were until I got those bent feelers... Thanks man I grew up with points, I still think they throw a meaner spark than the electronic stuff.... thanks and great vid
Oh! The one piece point condenser. Back about 1974 I had a neighbor who did a tune up on his car and for a week I noticed has car hadn't moved so I ask him what was up with the car? He told me about the tune up he did so I took a look and seen the new one piece points condenser. I had run into this problem in the passed so I asked him what he did with his old points. He came up with them and they were not one piece. Installed them and it fired right up. Lol. The one piece points set were all junk.
Just put a point/condenser set in my old nova. Once set runs fine. I've had new condenser fail out of the box. Electronic ignition is better until it fails. And that can happen at any moment. HEI recently failed on my cosworth. One minute it was working. Next minute it was not. Module failed. Keep a spare. It's the 3rd time it's done that.
I loved the old 455. The worst thing about Pontiac engines are the heads. Stock heads dont breath well for performance but now aftermarket heads have become affordable which is a great thing. Great job man! Respect
A nice job on the 389. I would have went with the electronic points too. However, no offense should be taken, but a call to Buttler Performance and some conversation, may have netted a little more performance per their suggestions. They are THE #1 authority on Pontiacs. I would bet a well tuned Q-Jet (800cfm) would have made 350-360 hp.
First Car was a 61 Pontiac Bonneville. 2nd Car New 1964 GTO Convertible Yellow. 389 360 HP 4spd with Trips. 3rd Car was New 1965 GTO Red 4sp with Trips. Brother bought a 1970 Blue GTO Judge, 4spd 400 HP I believe, All 389 Engines. Every couple of Months, Points, Plugs, Condenser and playing with the carburetor. Burn a tank of gas Friday Night; Saturday Night and fill up for work the other 5 days. Gas was 17.9 to 24.9 cents a gallon in Detroit, normally using Shell 95 Octane or Sunoco 260. Lots of Memories but we drove the cars in those days. Always working on our cars.
"1970 Blue GTO Judge, 4spd 400 HP" nope ... 350 HP unless a Ram Air car or 455 CI - 70 455 was 360 HP, Ram Air lll was 366 HP and Ram Air lV was 370 HP but very under rated Roger Huntington wrote an article about what these engines actually put out; here is the list: (All are gross hp & torque figures.) Engine----------Advertised--Rated HP & Torque---------True HP (?) Buick 455 Stage 1-------360@5000----510@2800------420@5400 Camaro Z/28 302--------290@5800----290@4200------310@6200 Chevelle 396 L-78-------375@5600----415@3600------400@5600 Corvette 427 L-88-------430@5200----450@4400------480@6400 Mopar 340-4 bbl---------275@5000----340@3200------320@5600 Mopar 440-Magnum------375@4600----480@3200------410@5400 Mopar 440 Six-Pack------390@4700----490@3200------430@5600 Mopar 426 Street Hemi---425@5000----490@4000------470@6000 Mustang Boss 302--------290@5800----290@4300------310@6200 Ford 351-4 bbl Cleveland--300@5400----380@3400------340@5600 Mustang Boss 351--------330@5400----370@4000------360@6000 Mustang 428 Cobra-Jet---335@5200----440@3400------410@5600 Mustang Boss 429--------375@5200----450@3400------420@5600 Oldsmobile 455 W-30-----370@5300----500@3600------440@5600 Oldsmobile 350 W-31-----325@5400----360@3600------350@5800 Pontiac Ram Air 400------366@5100----445@3600------410@560
GM's points situation was heads and shoulders above Mopar's... that little door saved a lot of headaches. But... putting the condenser with the points means you don't get to swap them separately. You should be able to test points with an ohmmeter... never burnish them with a (emery) matchbook striker, use a proper file.
I burnish with a strip of paper and micro-polish, and yes, emery or sandpaper is a no-no! I believe Nick installed bad points, no way you can have no spark even when set quite far off spec.
Well Nick, this video brought back my own memory. When I was about ten years old my late Dad was showing me at the time how to adjust the dwell through the access door on our '64 Chevrolet Impalas’ distributor. Somehow I got my left hand in the wrong place and got "bit" by the coil. Boy did I let loose of that Allen key fast! It felt later like a giant socked me in my left arm. (I'm a lefty). These days I’m just about ready to try for my first time to remove, clean and reinstall the throttle body on my ’12 Chrysler 200 with the Pentastar V6 engine. Hope it goes well.
Mike smart Tulsa Oklahoma good job on diagnosing that point problem I had the same problem with a 62 413 four barrel a mechanic friend of mine said get away from the points go to pertronics it fired right up and ran fantastic so good diagnosis have a blessed day sir and hang in there there for a minute I felt your frustration
Wow If it was me I would go with solid mount it looks like it wants to pull them apart. I’m looking forward to seeing the dyno results see what kind of torque it’s making
....I always liked that engine, seems like an intake manifold, the carter, dual points, clean up the head ports, a mild performance cam, 10:1, headers and you get at least 390Hp and a great street engine. But that was a long time ago!
I have had great luck with the Pertronix electronic conversion kits that replace the points and condenser in the factory point distributors and am using it in my 64 GTO with factory stock 389 internals and 65 "mechanical" Tri-Power intake manifold in front of the M22 "Rock Crusher" tranny torqing into a factory 4.10 10 bolt L.S.D. rear gear posi with adjustable traction bars... Love your videos and your laid back attitude!!
He needed to sacrifice a feeler gage by bending it so he could set the gap. He spent too much time farting around with the carburetor(s) when he should have known the spark is the weak link on that point system.
I run HEI, MSD, or a breakerless conversion on all my Pontiac engines, and I don't run the advance on manifold vacuum. Been building, racing, and daily driving these engines for over 30 years.
I think that battery has got a bad cell, especially if that big charger and the time taken to replace the carb and the points has not charged that battery!
@@nickpanaritis4122 Yes Nick, I was a driveability tech back in the 70's working in the same Pontiac Dealer for 40 years. Live eat and breathed Pontiacs until we had to take on Buicks. Correctly, when hot the starters would suck the life out of 700 cranking amp battery. First thing I did to my 66 was to switch to HEI. The HP for 10.25 compression ratio was 325 hp. at 9.5 you got a really good torque and HP. I am a fan of yours and try to watch all your videos.
Great videos as always Nick. I had a 1972 Buick Riviera 455 boat tail. Had lots of issues with the points ignition. One day I got stranded, and two days later I installed a GM HEI from a Buick 350 engine and never looked back.
We had a 71 Buick Wildcat 455 on the farm and it would get a wet distributor cap often when it rained. Never cared for the GM distributor compared to a Ford.
On the Edelbrock Carb the choke is fully open. It seems slightly cloesed on video.
We have a new camera bracket on the way. It should help us line the lens up directly over the carb, so that we don't have this issue in the future.
Is it an edelbrock carburetor or is it the original Carter AFB? Some reason I thought it was the original AFB.
Lol just got the the edelbrock part never mind 🤣🤙
@@LunarOutlawsGarage it is the original carter afb there is a air bypass screw between the two idle mixture screws
Ya know there is such thing as a Carter quadrajet …was wondering if this was one
Car arrived safe and sound Nick! I have to thank Harry and Thorsons Enclosed Vehicle Transport for getting the Roadrunner home safely.
Fantastic!
Lucky SOB!! 🙂
Beautiful car have fun
Enjoy & drive it like you stole it 👍
Cheers
Louis 👍
enough $$$$ and the proper shipper will be careful as heck-all. also luck of nature, as it can ruin the best things in an instant!
I would have thought with all the old iron you work on, you'd have a distributor machine. I loved those things back in the day. Mark your rotor, pull the complete distributor out and tune the dwell on the stand, then spin it up on the machine and see if the arrows hold steady throughout the RPM range. If the arrows started jumping around you knew you'd get a misfire in the car, so whatever it was needed to be fixed on the stand.
I had almost forgotten about these machines. When electronic distributor components came around, I always went with the high tech methods and installed the point eliminator kits and then later I would buy the whole distributor.
Points distributors are so simplistic that a test stand would be a waste of money today.
If a guy worked on mag distributors also, then maybe purchase a machine...
I really enjoyed watching this video, the old 389 acting cranky for Nick. I've worked on a few GTO's over the years, and sometimes they have done the same to me. It was a pleasure watching Nick sort out the issues, and finally get the engine running smoothly, and making some decent HP, with a basically stock setup. Back in the day I used to carry some matchbooks around with me, and also a nail file, that I could use in an emergency to gap, and file my points. The matchbook cover was about .017 which would put me in the ballpark on the dwell setting until I could put in a new set of points, and set the dwell with my meter. That little trick saved quite a few times when the points would fail, and leave you on the side of the road. George, this video was simply amazing, the music, production, and editing were all first class! I have watched a lot of videos on UA-cam, and nobody even come close to the quality of the videos on Nick's Garage
I had three got.did like you did with a match box and a nail file worked pretty good one of them had a dual points what a night mare worked when you could get them set thanks for your comment
.17 works on 6 cylinder motors not on gm v8s ......28-32
Yep! I too put many a set of points in the old goats. I made a lot of money tuning new goats for my buddies as work who ran them hard. My old 390 Mercury Cyclone would do circles around the old goats. They were good cars though and we all have a spot for them in our hearts. Thanks, Nick for bringing back old memories.
PS the first Electronic ignitions didn't work well either. They got hot and you were walking. Used to tell my customers to pour water on the brain box and if they had none just pee on the dam thing. 9 outa of 10 times it got them in without a wrecker.
Lost count of the number of points I gaped with a match book and my bet is Nick has done the same. I had a friend back in the day that had a Bonneville 2+2 that would pull the wheels off the ground in second with a 389.
Nick, love everything you do on your channel !!!!!! Not many Old School Guys like you around . I'm an ol Tin Indian Fan ,and love watching the ol Pontiac come to life.....I'm an ol 1970 GTO owner in my younger days ....brings back alots of memories.....Keep' em Running Nick ...God Bless You....
Great video. This is exactly how I observed my Dad working in the garage on problems, with a positive attitude and a healthy mixture of fear and aggression. This is what it is all about: the journey!
Good morning Nick , good ole points , people ask me if I remember using a dwell meter and I just smile and say it's been awhile .
Since i work on all year models I still keep the knowledge lol on the older setups.
Using the petronix point replacement is great , I have used them on an old Farmall tractor.
Thank you for working as hard as you do to bring us such a great video.
Take care and keep a thrashing . 👍
The 1966 GTO 389 was nice street engine.They respond well to ignition timing mods(Royal Bobcats distributor weights with lighten springs for quicker advancing of timing). Factory compression ratios were 10.75 to 1. Pontiacs always ran hot ! I had a 1966 GTO 4 speed and enjoyed it !
What was the problem with the ignition the protronicks points elements points!
I had a 66 GTO 389 posi traction rear end Hurst four-speed shifter beautiful looking car nice lines for its day always ran hot always had a problem with the ignition ! Points what a crap invention that was today's a new day new technology get rid of the points !!! Go have some fun ! Hey GOAT hold it !! 😂
They were a great street engine due to the low revving torque they developed.
Hmm, I never had an issue with any of my 400 Pontiacs running hot... 🤷🏻
@@fuuuuu666 For a correct car show car, the points are a requirement.
Nick , nice job on the “66 GTO. I worked on my 65 GTO from 1966 to 1980, including an engine rebuild I did myself. When you asked what’s the dwell on the points, I yelled out, “30” from Sunnyvale, CA, otherwise known as Silicon Valley‼️
I still have my dwell meter. I used it on all my hot rods. Thanks again for the great video . I too have gone in circles changing out old points, and installing new points that wouldn’t work. Drove me crazy.
I hope to visit your shop someday . Keep up the great work.
Thanks,
Tom
I was ready to throw a wrench in your honor Nick. It actually helps me when you encounter a PITA job. But you never give up! As I said last week…”One week closer to vacation!” Hope you all have a good week.
Fling a 15/16 like in Ford vs Ferrari
I was a fifth generation high plains country boy who grew up with a dwell meter and a set of straight leaf feeler gauges. I raced Pontiac 389, 400, and 455 motors in a mid-sixties Catalina on 3/8 dirt circle track strictly stock absolutely with Wesleyan ingenuity, honesty, and integrity. I used Reagan era American made parts and tools. I don't recall my cars never starting or not running exceptionally better than my competition.
Waiting for this clown show to end was absolute torture. However, my guess is that this production is a metaphor for never ending NAFTA failures This production reveals a poignant end to dominant American performance exceptionalism. Thank you Nick Panaritis. You have confirmed my understanding that past American made products and their constituencies were once significantly greater performers.
I never had good luck with unitized points back in the day. Separate condenser seemed more reliable.
Uni points belong in the trash. You can't use a feeler gauge with them. He had a brand new set of blue point points with a separate condenser. Should have looked for a screw to hold the condenser and been done with it.
I had a 66 GTO with a 389 4 in the floor when I was 17 that was in 1972. It was gold and had white bucket seats and black carpet and I absolutely loved that car. Hey Nick I forgot to tell you that I bought a 65 Dodge Dart GT and I’m very excited to have an A body. I can’t wait to get it running and driving since it’s been sitting in a garage the last 15 years.
I remember monkeying around with points just like that, only the engine was IN THE CAR. Now THAT was a pain in the😡😡😡.
Aahhh, to be young again...
Depends on where the distributor was ,
The nice thing about GM cars was that you could adjust the points with the engine running. Just roughly set them and connect a dwell meter and adjust them.
With the GM window distributors it wasn’t too bad if you had a dwell meter. Open the window, put an Allen wrench in the bolt on the points base, and adjust the dwell.
@@CrazyPetez That's it. Sure beat the crap out of trying to get them set right with a feeler gauge. Dwell meters weren't too expensive in those days. I think every shade tree mechanic had one. I had an Allen wrench that was on a spring with a screwdriver type handle.
@@williamjones4483 I never used a feeler gauge, teacher in voc. tech. school showed us how you could use a matchbook cover to gap the points. With the added advantage of cleaning any contaminant oil like you find on feeler gauges off the contacts!
I own a 66 tempest.
Bought when I was 19. I'm 54 now..still love it..still drive it..
Has a 406 CI ..400 out i
Of a 76 grand Prix freshened up block...th 400 trans. Runs 12 s
On motor..set up for spray..
Stock bottom end forged pistons. I built the motor over 18 year's ago..street raced track raced .. sprayed..a bunch
210 shot...👍👍👍
Nick, back in the early 1970's here in the UK I worked at a Ford main dealer and at that time we only had points to work with on 99% of cars that came into the shop for tuning. Some distributors even had dual points.
I used to do all the electronic engine tuning using a Sun Tester 1120 machine (a ground breaking piece of kit in those days).
Common problems with new sets of points were: (A) Caused by not wiping the anti corrosion oil film off the contact faces. (B) Having a poor earth on the distributor base plate (the points screw down directly onto the base plate) which would cause a voltage drop. (C) Poorly aligned contact faces - more common than you think. (D) Lack of grease on the distributor cam lobes causing the points heel to wear away thus closing the points gap. (E) Excessive distributor shaft side play causing the points gap to alter or scatter as we called it as the engine climbed the rev range. (F) Incorrect points dwell angle which can effect (lower) the coil output KV and finally, condenser failure. This can cause arcing/burning across the points face or even a non start situation.
Properly installed and gapped (dwelled) points were usually good for at least 6000 miles!
P.S. I would pay a tidy some for a half decent 1120 machine to use on my classics! Great channel. DP
10.25 is the perfect compression for these Pontiac engines with a good MSD ignition and the right combustion chamber set up you’ll get good power
Yea man. 10 seems about right for the 389 and awesome for the days. Compared to some 8.something of the sloggers
The guy who rebuilds your carbs does a fantastic job, it looks like new and probably works like new too. It's called pride in your work and going the extra mile to be the best.
I work on vintage motorcycle carbs, some of the very worst ones I've done 'look' real nice but were corroded to hell internally requiring a lot of extra work. There really isn't a 'bolt on replacement like in automotive where bolt spacing has been stasndardised since 1950's
It basically involves a good kit and a tank of bears men's carb cleaner best carb cleaner for doing carburetors I've literally probably done over a thousand carburetors one of my favorite things to do sometimes building two or three in one day and building a a few motorcycle carbs and a couple of really old antique ones I love the day of carburetors points and plugs I used to make my own plug wires because I used the best high grade wire I can find the sheet when I used to tune up the Mazda rotary
In the mid 70's I had a 66 GTO but went with an Accel ignition, Crower 3/4 cam, .060 TRW pistons, Hooker Headers and a 4:11 posi with a 2:20 Muncie 4 speed. Best time on Goodyear F70-14 was 13.90s close to 110.
Love your channel.
You seriously needed more tire! 11.80 on DOT slicks I would estimate.
@@lcee6592 I have no doubt about slicks. Thanks!
Nick I used to race the four barrel GTO's with my 66 Cyclone GT 390 and I had no problem beating them in the 1/4mile. I think they only had bout 315 hp. My Cyclone had a 4 speed in it. The tri-power GTO's could beat me but they had 360 hp.
Nice. I own a 1969 Pontiac GP 455 Stroker (RHD) DownnUnder in Western Australia and DIG the hell out of it. Thanks for sharing your passion and workplace. A good setup you got there. Cool.
I've watched everyone of Nicks videos and have never seen him so frustrated! Gives a guy flashback to the bad old points days! Uncle Tony can keep them as far as I'm concerned. Back in the day the first thing I would do to a GM engine was install an HEI distributor and be loving life!!
Points back in the day were all over the board in quality. Probably what is left over are the junk and there was a lot of junk. People with doing dual points were like Wizards LOL! . Actually you set the gap and dwell half of the singles. I had a Mallory in a BBC and it worked great. Mallory's were very good quality distributors.
I was in heaven when the opti spark came out. Put that right in my 1970 Challenger 440 SIXPACK. Right in the stock distributer!
Surprised it didn't have the trip power on it it was the one I think was advertised at that? Been so long and I can't remember. I am surprised that Nick doesn't know, he is the walking encyclopedia of knowledge that he has forgotten more than most people know. God bless and keep on your mission Nick! You are a great treasure of my generation.
This was a really great episode Nick.
Because there are days like those.
When I was a kid they had a Sun distributor machine. Points float-
I love Petronics- problem solved
Thanks for keeping it real, by showing how frustrating things can get.
Reminds me of the 326 of my brothers 67 firebird.His brother in law Steve Bachman rebuilt it back in 83 and let me help on assembly.That was my first time understanding how they worked.Made me a mechanic.Steve was a well known street racer back in the day around Sterling park in Virginia.Hes a mentor to me.
I had a '67 GTO.....400 with a Q-Jet and Turbo 400 Trans. Hurst Dual Gate shifter. It was pretty fast. Had many options....A/C power everything and front disc brakes. I can only wish I had it today. Sold it for about $1000 back in the early 1970's.......!!!! Today that car could be worth 50K or more I think ! One reason I sold it was it had a bad oil leak from the rope seal. I pulled the engine and replaced the seal and the cam and lifters. Had many little problems with the car that made me want to sell it. Like I said I wish I had it today and I'd fix whatever problems it had...P.S. there is a neoprene seal available for them to get away from the rope I believe.....
I had a “65” GTO Convertible 4 speed, I loved,it was taken from me by a drunk driver who slammed into me as I waited at a railroad crossing for a train to pass. Your video brings back a lot of memory’s I had with my then girlfriend now my wife of 44 years! Wish I still had that car! To your testing, it sounds like your starter needs to be shimmed a bit,it’s binding on the flex plate/ flywheel.
So sorry about your 65 GTO. I had mine from 1966 to 1985. Married 27 years to first wife and going on 20 years with #2.
Take care. Enjoyed your comment.
Tom,
The Class of 1965.
Carlmont HS, Belmont, CA
My father bought a 1969 Gto brand new for 2600 Dollars RIGHT FROM THE DEALER IN FORT KENT MAINE WHEN HE GOT OUT OF VIETNAM 400 SMALL BLOCK I BELIEVE, VERY NICE-MOTOR YOU HAVE THERE NICK DANG AWESOME
I went to school with a girl who's father gave her a 67 Pontiac GTO, 389 Tri Power. That car still had the original paint. Beautiful Ride.
sorry no such car...1967 had a 400 and single 4 barrel only
'66 was the last year for the 389 and tri-power. I know, I had one new. '67 was a 400 with a four barrel as the only engine.
@@JamesSterling yeah, it probably was a 66. I remember this girl driving it up to where we were partying and it was just sweet. It was a 389 Tri Power, still had the original paint, had one tiny little dent on the passenger door. She got it for graduation gift from her parents but her dad was the original owner.
67 400. No 389 and tri power
1967 GTO 400 was offered with a DEALER ADDED Tri Power - anyone could get it if requested after the car was delivered to the dealer NEW
Had a 73 catalina with a 400 that used to eat points. Kept a spare pre-set uni-sets in the glove compartment with a flashlight and some tools. Have the girlfriend hold the light. Great vid. Took me back to the old days. I guess us old guys remember some of this old tech. Thanks
Another Monday morning and watching my favorite channel with Nick and crew! A great way to rev up my MoPar brain!
Right on! Thanks for joining us, Bill.
This video is very important. Because it shows even the best can have headaces with even simple fixes.
Distributor machines are nice to set them up and make sure they are perfect before going on the engine. I've never had a problem with points ignition. Most of the time a new set of Blue Point points are correctly set right out of the box.
I'm with you here, This GM Delco ignition isnt old school to me, that carburetor is old school. Should be TBI at the minimum everywhere. Every shade tree around here is running Edlebrock out of the box dead rich at light throttle cruise, its a shame and it stinks too. Another problem is guys running incorrect voltage to points or incorrect voltage to HEI. You don't want that resistance wire on an HEI or non-points unit. Conversely, you don't want START POSITION full voltage at the RUN position on a points car. Very basic stuff. - Sandy - the aging car mechanic
@@sandyshoremann7524 Go get a tan.
all my years of being a mechanic nick its so hard to do is just walk away come back the next day i have spent hours working on something that's or should be really simple walk away go back the next morning and fix it in 5 minutes i remember old timers telling me many times to do that i have learned it works for me unbelievable done it many times i think we get so aggravated it gets to the mind. just walk away go back the next day
Why not replace the mechanical points with a Hall effect replacement. Can’t see them so it will not matter. Will be dependable.
A Hall-Effect sensor can not handle the current required that the coil needs to consume. One would need a bunch of other electronic components along with a hall-effect sensor to make that work.
At that point, one might as well just purchase a ready to run electronic aftermarket distributor.
They can be had for as low as $50 for a cheap one.
Nick i dont own a v8 muscle car, im a vw guy, but i do appreciate your videos. I love old musclecars. Keep up the good work.
My 389 was the best engine I ever had. My brother's 65 GTO was the same. Start 1st time, never smoked and ran perfectly.
you could get & build another one.
@@corporalclegg914 I wish!! I need a car to put it in.
@@Mike383HK my father has a 69 or a 70 gto hahah he has a 389 in it as well
@@vinjank - I hear ya, Mike. I hope you get your hands on an old Pontiac motor & relive your 389 days…they’re equal to what Ponce de León was seeking. my dad has a few basket 389s that need building, plus a tri-power 389 in a Red ‘64 GTO 4-speed & a built 455HO waiting it’s turn in a Gold ‘64 GTO. I plan to build both 389s, even if they sit on stands for a bit. I’m over 40 & dad’s over 70, but we’re freaking middle-school boys when we beat old Pontiac 4-speeds.
I’m interested in finding a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (4-door 4WD) without an engine & augmenting it with a 389. that may be sacrilegious to some, but not to me. I’d be proud to pull that off. I’d carb it first, then consider an EFI kit. I put in a Holley Sniper on an AMC 304 in a CJ7 4-speed & it’s amazing. good luck…I hope something falls in your lap in a deal too sweet to turn down.
So enjoyed seeing you having issues with points. In my racing days 64-68 I fought them as well. Did my heart good to see you having some issues. BTW, this is Nick.
Nick please remember even when you replace points with new ones you have to thoroughly clean the contacts with lint-free paper and lacquer thinners
Which he didn't do along with gapping them with a feeler gauge. I thought this guy knew what he was doing apparently not.
@@Hoggdoc1946 , Nick has probably forgotten more than you ever knew.
nick is always educational and entertaining. as someone who is even older than nick, i really enjoy visiting the good old days of big horsepower engines. i was a chevy man but also like mopars. kowalski rules.
389hp would taker a bit of head porting and smoothing of intake transitions maybe a bit of David vizard type tweaking ,love video sweet build
Thx Nick for bringing back the memories of my '66 Goat from back in the dsy. Keep the oldies rolling.
Watching you guys it's like watching a young nick working with the real nick. Nice work leo
Yes sir it did and a good friend of mine had one in a manual. He took the 389 out kept it and he put a built 400 in it. He passed away from bladder cancer and she sold of his collection of stuff and I don't know what the Son got if anything. God bless you all and have a great day tomorrow.
Good morning Nick, oh yeah some Pontiac power on the dyno.
Morning! Thanks for joining us.
nothing rarely goes the the way you want it to ..but thats all part of engine building...you figured it out in the end ...good work nick..
I am 71 and had a few early 1964 - 1967 GTO's and the exhaust manifolds on this are out of a 1967 GTO. I ran all the oem type carburetor combinations, including the Rochester Q-Jet. The AFB was a 625 cfm version from what I could tell at the beginning. In the end it was a AVS type, which is a good version of these. They never came on Pontiacs though. The 66 Tri-Power gave the best performance when setup correctly. Unless I am missing something, the single points should work well with enough dwell. This engine barely saw 5,000 rpm, not 6 or 7,000 rpm. We had setups in SBC's going to 7,900 rpm. I am not impressed on what I saw here...
It was nice to see "points". That was the way I learned a long time ago. When experience tells you to stop, it is wise to do so. Thanks for sharing.
Had the same experience with the points in my 68 firebird 350, swapped it out for a HEI unit, night and day difference
I have a 65 389 with stock 2.5 exhaust at the manifolds. Totally agree with not raising up the compression all that much and less exhaust restriction keeps it running cool. Great video on that 389 and electronic always fixes for a smoother, higher rpm.
My family’s first car was a Pontiac Catalina, 1967 model year. It included new technologies like disc brakes and electronic ignition. My mother said the ignition failed on a trip when the car was new, and stranded them while the Pontiac dealer located a replacement ignition module.
Nick i know you know this trick, use a small piece of a manilla folder to gap your points it's perfect to get you running! Then you can adjust, i was really suprised that you did not go that route, your old school and i just know that you know these old tricks, by the way love your show, my passion is the 65-70 impala fat blocks, keep up the fine work, oh your Kowalski is the legend lives, go nick!.
I bet the condenser on the new points is junk if you took the condenser off the old points and put it on the new ones it will work. There have been many new condensers that are junk and I bet that is what is going on with the ones your using
New parts is no gaurantee they are good parts!
Yep. Lots of points sold these days that are junk right out of the box.
Had bad condenser right of the box before
points and condenser (non-polarized electrolytic capacitor) are likely both junk. not enough sales volume for it to be made worth a hill of beans, let alone one bean (how's that for old saying) ;)
Newer VOMs can read capacitance!
Ahh this video brings back memories. Change points one time and everything goes so easy, next time nothing goes right.
That Pontiac blue is one the prettiest engine colors ever used. Therir 75-77 metallic blue is really nice looking too, the heavy metallic really pops with all the angle on an engine.
67 Pontiac Firebird 400 Quadrajet. TH 400 best of the beast back in mid '70s. Thank you for taking me back to the best of times Nick. Love watching you work your specialty. I'd like to see a '56 thunderbird 312 Y block- Holley 4bbl on your dyno.
Nick, Pontiacs are notorious for being under cammed by most builders. Raising the compression and keeping the cam that tame builds way too much cylinder pressure, aka: heat. Also the reason they eat starters, and you get the hard start issue. They don't have the best for cooling, as there are modifications i do that help a lot in these situations.
Those exhaust manifolds are actually a Ram Air 3, 4 into 1 manifold. They are not standard stock exhaust manifolds. Hence the bigger collector. A stock exh. Manifold is 2.250". They also offer those "long branch" RA3 manifolds cnc ported. They work. Same style as the round port RA4. FYI, never offered on a 389. They are available aftermarket.
The best tool in a pinch for points? A matchbook. Will get you running every time.
Those stock Carter AFB carbs are tough to work with, but as a rated they are 500-550cfm. They do not actually flow that. In comparison, the Tri-power carbs are rated at 750cfm, from all three 2 barrels.
Nice job. Actually just got done with a supercharged 440 going in a 70 cuda. Up on my instagram.. and here you are doing a Pontiac, my personal choice of race engines.
@jrd_motorsports
The AFB was rated at 625 cfm on 1964 - 1966. The The 1964 & 1965 Tri Power (according to Rochester) flowed 814 cfm and the 1966 flowed 887 cfm. We ran the 1966 Tri Powers on 455ci. motors back in the early to mid 1970's for Street Racing. Worked very well with the RA IV camshaft and good 670 heads. This gave us around 12-1 compression. We always had to add some Av gas or race gas. The 670 heads (closed chamber) were the only Pontiac heads that liked a lot of timing. 42 - 44 degrees were what they liked. To keep them running somewhat cool. A 4 core radiator was a must, and nothing over 3.55's in the back. The 4 field starter is what we always used on these. Rarely a problem with them. For points, we used Mallory 102X, and set them up on a Sun machine, set the dwell at 35-36. By the time you hit 6,000 rpm, the dwell was around 30. You could not run anymore dwell than that, otherwise it started to effect the idle. I did the same for big Blocks and small blocks when helping others. Setting them up this way allowed for very high rpm without float. The Firebirds had the longer runner exhaust cast iron headers. We used to open up the collector area on these cast iron headers for extra flow. Hard to believe, that was around 50 years ago.
whats a matchbook ? lol kidding !
Nick thanks for the honesty, this shows the problems that can occur when working on these projects.
Gotta love them ol Ponchos!!
Please Nick, gotta get one of those in a 6bbl on the dyno. I know it's been done before, but your camera work is superb!!
Pontiac plays the best sound 71 GTO convertible 400 owned for 37 years. ❤👍🇬🇧🥃
When those engines were new the rope seals were made from asbestos and they worked fine, since that material has been banned most rope seals (the ones that come in gasket kits) are made out of a fiber glass material and they cant handle the heat and virtually always fail after a few thousand miles. The "Best gasket company" graphite rope seal is the only rope seal you should ever use on a Pontiac engine, or better yet use the one or two piece viton seals that are also available for Pontiacs as well.
Better yet the one piece viton seal!
@@mitchellgrexa8225 the viton seals work great (particularly on the 400's) but I have seen issues with the seal cavity on the 455 not being machined entirely concentric and when that happens the viton seal can leak. The graphite rope seal gets packed into that cavity and so it doesn't care about imperfections and seals up perfectly.
@@maxpowerta3183 the reason a lot of 2 piece seals end up leaking is they need to be turned slightly so they don't line up with the parting line of the cap and block. A lot of people miss this small but significant detail.
Are those 1967-on ram air exhaust manifolds?
@@chrisbrown3925 yeah they look like the new R. A. R. E. Manifolds
You are the best.. You take time to explain thing simply and mail room is great to.. Keep up the great work by do
I've always liked the 66-67 GTO and the other similar GMs with that same body style along with Pontiacs engine color and factory dress up kit,it's pretty sharp imo. Perseverance Panaritis at it once again and as usual it truly pays off in the long run! Great job guys,thank you again.
Thank you for your dedication to preserving these automotive musclecar power plants!
Nothing better than to hear the sound of a V8
Awesome....Thanks Nick & George on the camera work....Nick some time around 1960's my Dad had an old ugly green and white Pontiac and for some reason l needed to barrow his car to go somewhere....Anyway l started it up and the whole car started to shake l shut it off and ask him why the engine was shaking so bad.....He said it was OK just drive it like that....So l did put it in first gear and it laid down rubber smoking the tires before l knew what was going....When l got back he smiled and said how did it drive.....Don't remember what l said to him back.... lol My Dad was Super....Thanks again.....!
Those are factory exhaust manifolds, but not for that engine. They appear to be Ram Air manifolds that came out a few years later.
They are 67 RA D PORT reproduction manifolds.
@@tylerstevenson4333 it seem you have the best reply.
@@tylerstevenson4333 we
@@tylerstevenson4333 Also used on the 400 HO starting in '67 which is the same spec engine used in later RA III's.
Hey Nick where the same age I was born in 56 when I was always stationed at Camp Pendleton I bought mine platoon sergeant 72 Pontiac formula 400 the motor blew a few months later went to the Salvage yard picked up a 389 bought it out 40 over for a cool radiator Edelbrock intake carburetor what is screamer this car was an idle the fenders would rock back-and-forth nobody wanted to race me even the Corvettes when I was down in Vista California Friday nights all the Hot Rodder‘s would show up drove it all the way back to Rhode Island when I get out of the Marine Corps this brought back some memories thank you
I remember cruising in my buddy's father's 66 Goat when it was brand new with this same engine. It was an automatic with a "TempestTorque" 2 speed A/T (aka; Powerglide).
A white hardtop with gold roof and interior. I thought it was SOOO gorgeous
Pontiac never used a Powerglide in US models. The 1966 Pontiac 2 speed was a super turbine 300 which was an entirely different transmission.
I appreciate your real world approach. Stuff goes wrong. And most guess or lie about how much hp they make.
I had a 65 GTO with a 400 in it, I bought the car after my brother passed away in 83. He had a 65 GTO when he was in the Marines in Viet Nam, after he was wounded and paralyzed from upper chest down, my Dad had to sell it. Having always had SBC/BBC I was disappointed in performance, should have kept car and put a BBC in it. Sold car more because it only seemed to add to grieving process I was going thorough at the time. Would love to see what Nick could do with this motor with Alum heads, decent cam and induction. Can't beat seeing an engine on the dyno, figures don't lie!
The 400 Pontiac did not come out until 1967.
@@artszabo1015 I bought the car in 84 or 85, so 389 in it was long gone by then.
@@396375a I had a 65 tri power and a 66 4 bbl both with 389s. The big difference was the valvetrain. 67 and back had pressed in rocker studs and were adjusted to a torque setting. They had a tendency to creep out of the head and at high rpms 6k plus the lifters would pump up and float the valves. 67 and newer engines went to Chevy style valvetrain and were much more reliable. I believe the heads were interchangeable.
@@artszabo1015 Press-in rocker arm studs were used on the low performance Pontiac engines. Cylinder heads (valve angles were different on the 389-421 heads vs. 350-400-428-455 heads. In 1967, Pontiac changed to a “closed chamber” head design to address emission concerns.
Because of the valve angles, valve-to-piston contact could occur unless you use a “universal” style piston with valve reliefs cut in the piston tops for either valve angle approach to the piston top. And pushing a Pontiac motor past 5500-5600 is senseless (unless you’re specifically build the engine for that purpose). Pontiac’s use a long rod length which dislikes RPMs. If you look at the torque curve on a Pontiac motor, you will find torque coming in at lower RPMs and in large amounts. Race-specific Pontiac motors such as the 303 and 366 were built with shorter deck heights, which in turn, used a shorter rod length. (similar to a SBC) in the Trans Am series on the late 60s - early 70s and could live happily in the higher RPM ranges.
@@charlestresp4959 With all due respect Sir, I believe you will find that the early 60's 421 Super Duty Pontiacs among others were definitely NOT 'low performance" engines. The new head design accurately described by yourself was a development brought out in 1967 for all Pontiac engines not just high performance. Even the 326 got them but 67 was the last year for it. In short Pontiac heads 66 and before had pressed in rocker studs. 1967 and later went to Chevrolet style. I owned and drove these cars when they were late models, and also worked as a professional mechanic back in those days.
Art
Factory manifolds were 2.25 .Reproductions have been enlarged. Looked like 67 HO manifolds. Love ur show Nick!
Yes the vendor opened then up to 2.5 "
Thanks for walking us through the troubleshooting, it’s nice to see the steps and use them as future reference if I run into the same. This is the kind of tech help that you only get by being there, but this channel helps open the world to all of us. I really appreciate the insight and experience and the time you take to share it with the community. Thanks Nick!
This motor Pontiac 389 was a masterpiece! The brand that not around anymore. 😕 What a shame! Great video old timer. 👌
Hang in there Nick!
Been there, done that too!
Even ran a dual point Mallory, it was a real headache!
That GM design was a great improvement over what it replaced.
Went to Mallory first gen electronic system (Unilite?) They were a pain too!
i worked on the gto 389x4 nice car, heavy, wide stance that sang the sweetest sounds..One of the best cars of that era.
Hey, Nick and crew!!! Happy Monday to you all!! Nick, I’m sure switching over from points is the sure way to go, however, on the replacement points you tried, I noticed that the condenser was slightly larger (diameter and length) than the original: I was just thinking that maybe, for THAT particular distributor, the larger condenser was physically interfering somehow. Anyway, I ALWAYS enjoy your videos: I grew up myself in the ‘points’ era, and I remember opening that little window to adjust the dwell with the engine running. Oohhh the memories!! 😄
Good afternoon folks. I really loved my 66 gto. It had a 74 400 2bbl from a Catalina when I bought it. I put 455 heads on it and a nasty cam, boy did that old goat go.... I haven't read all the comments, but am I the only one that noticed the exhaust manifolds on that beautiful beast? They didn't make too many of that style.
The first fifteen minutes are like watching a first-time new mother with her infant: every burp, cry or fart is attended to. This guy knows motors.
I had a friend my senior year in high school in 1979 that found a 1966 4sp trip-carb GTO in his drive way one day and discovered the keys in his house. His older brother had purchased the GTO at auction in Bristol VA where the story was the car had had every conceivable performance modification done to it over the years by the owner's mechanic, but upon the mechanic moving to northern Virginia the owner had elected to have the car returned mostly to stock for auction. One issue was on its last rebuild the replacement clutch was the wrong part requiring the car to be put back together with the old slipping clutch. The car's mechanic would be willing to replace the clutch free of charge once he was reestablished in Northern VA.
I've now concluded this GTO was very much not stock. We took it out and it was almost out of gas and knew a car like this needed high grade premium so I had us go to a Sunoco and get the highest grade gas they had. Upon leaving the gas station may friend opened it up and I counted seconds and got to 4.5 to 60 mph, BUT I'd started at 1 not zero so it got to 60 in about 3.5 seconds. The car had rear tires that were about 10.5 inch wide and almost that tall. It would rev very well to about 4500 RPMs where is would become wide. At 5000 RPM it was like there was something alive trying to get out. Full power was probably about 6300 RPM. My friend would shift it about 6500 rpm, but once he said he missed it and it raved to 7,000 rpm. The car would push its rear axle down when under hard acceleration causing it to grip the pavement. Because of that with the tires the car had it could likely accelerate faster than 1G.
There was one situation I remember in particular when my friend was driving the GTO and suddenly floored it and got the gear shift just right and we went from about 45 mph to 75 mph pushing my back into the frame of the seat flattening the springs that were there in something a little over a second. This was scaring because in Marrifield VA when they rebuilt the roads the cross roads at intersections had an extreme high crown that was hard to take at 30 mph and we were at 80 mph. My friend later took me for a ride where he intentionally came up on an intersection at 80 mph, back off the throttle then hit it hard to lift the nose the car over the crown with the rear suspension almost locked using the side walls of the tires to take the brunt of the impact and the car was surprisingly composed.
The GTO was really slipping the clutch and as per the agreement my friend's brother took it into the mechanic to replace the clutch. I asked about the car and my friend said the mechanic was working on it at night. A few days my friend said the GTO and the mechanic had disappeared. Later he said the shop said they thought the mechanic was running drugs. It didn't sound perusable and I was thinking about having my dad call up the shop to see what was going on.
A couple months later my friend said that two police detectives showed up at his house asking about the GTO which they referred to as the BLUE CAR. In turned out that the police were running a sting operation and the GTO had been key to the drug cartel (but maybe they weren't) getting away with $80.000 cash, which had been given out so quickly non of the serial number or marking protocols were followed and if it was not recovered a lot of important people were going to loose their jobs. It is a full length motion picture of how the GTO had the organization got away with it involving psyching out the police. By the end of the car chases some 50 police cars had been damaged, 1/3 were totaled, another 1/3 had to be towed for repair, and the other 1/3 were drivable, but not up to patrolling. I have to think the ability of that car to get over the high crown of cross roads in Norther Virgina played a part in the car getting away. At the end the detectives said the police were so hypnotized in trying to get the blue car the commander said to pull into a safe area and LET THE BLUE CAR GO. And they did.
My friend went on for about 90 minutes on this story the police detectives told him. I'm guessing that GTO was likely running a big forged crank shaft. That would give the 389 about 460 ci displacement and allow it to rev high along with a performance cam. The exhaust was routed to exit just a head of the rear tires. There was the story from the auction that is was one of the last Pontiac street race cars. I noticed the front fenders seemed to be very thin,, but hard metal. I remember being pinned to the seat frame against my back as the car accelerated compressing the seat back springs. The sound that engine made as it went from 4500 rpms to 5000 rpms was like an animal wanting to get out. At 5000 rpms to 6700 rpms where my friend would shift it was hard to breath. After a while you didn't try. The report over the police radio on the sting operation from the operative was that the car had just disappeared. The cops where chasing it in crazy manic fashion because they wanted to catch it before it disappeared again. The $80,000 was police money and it had not been check out under normal procedure because of the perpetrates rushing the operation. We've never heard anything more about that 1966 trip-carb GTO.
Lord,I love that Road Runner! Beautiful!
So Cool keeping the 389 engine original , I can relate to this 389 as these engines are what I worked on and tuned for my friends . Great video
Whoa! What's up with the Yellow Fury? Many of these Moms grocery getters came with 383 and 440s'.
I had a 70 Road Runner did the same crap. But at least with Plymouth’s you could use a feeler gauge. These GMs know you’re a MOPAR guy, payback….
Pontiac Pontiac i want my money back
I had a 73 GTO with a 400, a pin hole in the oil filter on the way home from work cost the 400. I put a 1968, 389 out of a Catalina, with the turbo 400 behind it, this ran better than the original. yep it had points, but I had a set of angled and narrow tipped feeler gauges.. Made me think what a pain they were until I got those bent feelers... Thanks man I grew up with points, I still think they throw a meaner spark than the electronic stuff.... thanks and great vid
'68 would be a high compression ratio 400"...
Oh! The one piece point condenser. Back about 1974 I had a neighbor who did a tune up on his car and for a week I noticed has car hadn't moved so I ask him what was up with the car? He told me about the tune up he did so I took a look and seen the new one piece points condenser. I had run into this problem in the passed so I asked him what he did with his old points. He came up with them and they were not one piece. Installed them and it fired right up. Lol. The one piece points set were all junk.
Just put a point/condenser set in my old nova. Once set runs fine. I've had new condenser fail out of the box. Electronic ignition is better until it fails. And that can happen at any moment. HEI recently failed on my cosworth. One minute it was working. Next minute it was not. Module failed. Keep a spare. It's the 3rd time it's done that.
I loved the old 455. The worst thing about Pontiac engines are the heads. Stock heads dont breath well for performance but now aftermarket heads have become affordable which is a great thing. Great job man! Respect
A nice job on the 389. I would have went with the electronic points too.
However, no offense should be taken, but a call to Buttler Performance and some conversation, may have netted a little more performance per their suggestions. They are THE #1 authority on Pontiacs. I would bet a well tuned Q-Jet (800cfm) would have made 350-360 hp.
First Car was a 61 Pontiac Bonneville. 2nd Car New 1964 GTO Convertible Yellow. 389 360 HP 4spd with Trips. 3rd Car was New 1965 GTO Red 4sp with Trips. Brother bought a 1970 Blue GTO Judge, 4spd 400 HP I believe, All 389 Engines. Every couple of Months, Points, Plugs, Condenser and playing with the carburetor. Burn a tank of gas Friday Night; Saturday Night and fill up for work the other 5 days. Gas was 17.9 to 24.9 cents a gallon in Detroit, normally using Shell 95 Octane or Sunoco 260. Lots of Memories but we drove the cars in those days. Always working on our cars.
"1970 Blue GTO Judge, 4spd 400 HP" nope ... 350 HP unless a Ram Air car or 455 CI - 70 455 was 360 HP, Ram Air lll was 366 HP and Ram Air lV was 370 HP but very under rated
Roger Huntington wrote an article about what these engines actually put out; here is the list: (All are gross hp & torque figures.)
Engine----------Advertised--Rated HP & Torque---------True HP (?)
Buick 455 Stage 1-------360@5000----510@2800------420@5400
Camaro Z/28 302--------290@5800----290@4200------310@6200
Chevelle 396 L-78-------375@5600----415@3600------400@5600
Corvette 427 L-88-------430@5200----450@4400------480@6400
Mopar 340-4 bbl---------275@5000----340@3200------320@5600
Mopar 440-Magnum------375@4600----480@3200------410@5400
Mopar 440 Six-Pack------390@4700----490@3200------430@5600
Mopar 426 Street Hemi---425@5000----490@4000------470@6000
Mustang Boss 302--------290@5800----290@4300------310@6200
Ford 351-4 bbl Cleveland--300@5400----380@3400------340@5600
Mustang Boss 351--------330@5400----370@4000------360@6000
Mustang 428 Cobra-Jet---335@5200----440@3400------410@5600
Mustang Boss 429--------375@5200----450@3400------420@5600
Oldsmobile 455 W-30-----370@5300----500@3600------440@5600
Oldsmobile 350 W-31-----325@5400----360@3600------350@5800
Pontiac Ram Air 400------366@5100----445@3600------410@560
GM's points situation was heads and shoulders above Mopar's... that little door saved a lot of headaches. But... putting the condenser with the points means you don't get to swap them separately. You should be able to test points with an ohmmeter... never burnish them with a (emery) matchbook striker, use a proper file.
I burnish with a strip of paper and micro-polish, and yes, emery or sandpaper is a no-no! I believe Nick installed bad points, no way you can have no spark even when set quite far off spec.
350HP NICK, 66 GTO WAS A FAVORITE OF MINE ,the year I graduated high school!
Well Nick, this video brought back my own memory. When I was about ten years old my late Dad was showing me at the time how to adjust the dwell through the access door on our '64 Chevrolet Impalas’ distributor. Somehow I got my left hand in the wrong place and got "bit" by the coil. Boy did I let loose of that Allen key fast! It felt later like a giant socked me in my left arm. (I'm a lefty). These days I’m just about ready to try for my first time to remove, clean and reinstall the throttle body on my ’12 Chrysler 200 with the Pentastar V6 engine. Hope it goes well.
Mike smart Tulsa Oklahoma good job on diagnosing that point problem I had the same problem with a 62 413 four barrel a mechanic friend of mine said get away from the points go to pertronics it fired right up and ran fantastic so good diagnosis have a blessed day sir and hang in there there for a minute I felt your frustration
Wow If it was me I would go with solid mount it looks like it wants to pull them apart. I’m looking forward to seeing the dyno results see what kind of torque it’s making
....I always liked that engine, seems like an intake manifold, the carter, dual points, clean up the head ports, a mild performance cam, 10:1, headers and you get at least 390Hp and a great street engine. But that was a long time ago!
Solid mounts will destroy the block. Keep in mind the passenger side mount is in compression under acceleration, opposite under deceleration.
@@toomanyhobbies2011 No, they won't.. I've used solid mounts for YEARS and never an issue. Engine was 500+ h.p.
@@toomanyhobbies2011
You must not have been around back in the 70's and 80's ?
Sold mount is what everyone used.
I have had great luck with the Pertronix electronic conversion kits that replace the points and condenser in the factory point distributors and am using it in my 64 GTO with factory stock 389 internals and 65 "mechanical" Tri-Power intake manifold in front of the M22 "Rock Crusher" tranny torqing into a factory 4.10 10 bolt L.S.D. rear gear posi with adjustable traction bars... Love your videos and your laid back attitude!!
Nick, set the dwell by turning the engine over by the starter and using the Allen wrench to adjust the dwell without starting
He needed to sacrifice a feeler gage by bending it so he could set the gap. He spent too much time farting around with the carburetor(s) when he should have known the spark is the weak link on that point system.
@@craigbenz4835 back in the day, you could by a set of feeler gauges, pre-bent.
@@waynewebb7377 Yeah, I remember those.
The dwell on the points is the key to getting the point distributor to work properly, 19.5 degrees gives the best response.
One of the big things I’m upgrading on the 455 is the ignition system. I am not really a fan of points but that is just me. 😁🤙
I run HEI, MSD, or a breakerless conversion on all my Pontiac engines, and I don't run the advance on manifold vacuum. Been building, racing, and daily driving these engines for over 30 years.
You hit it
I think that battery has got a bad cell, especially if that big charger and the time taken to replace the carb and the points has not charged that battery!
@@wokewokerman5280 . Had replaced the battery a few months ago. Reads above 12.9 volts. Had to replace the starter.
@@nickpanaritis4122 Yes Nick, I was a driveability tech back in the 70's working in the same Pontiac Dealer for 40 years. Live eat and breathed Pontiacs until we had to take on Buicks. Correctly, when hot the starters would suck the life out of 700 cranking amp battery. First thing I did to my 66 was to switch to HEI. The HP for 10.25 compression ratio was 325 hp. at 9.5 you got a really good torque and HP. I am a fan of yours and try to watch all your videos.
Great videos as always Nick. I had a 1972 Buick Riviera 455 boat tail. Had lots of issues with the points ignition. One day I got stranded, and two days later I installed a GM HEI from a Buick 350 engine and never looked back.
We had a 71 Buick Wildcat 455 on the farm and it would get a wet distributor cap often when it rained. Never cared for the GM distributor compared to a Ford.
I've had quite a few GTOs I'm going to tell you that engine sounds sweet