The Tragedy of The Ettrick Knife...
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- Опубліковано 24 тра 2024
- Salutations, Ladies and Gentlemen! Today, I have a bit of a sad story-one that unfortunately, I felt a need to bring to light. As many of you may know, I am a massive enthusiast and collector of Ettrick knives. The Ettrick is a pattern that has existed for nearly two-hundred years, and is still being made by a small bunch of makers, today. I have exactly eight Ettrick knives, two of which are by Michael May, while the other six are by Arthur Wright & Sons. Among the knives I own, I find the Ettrick to be one of my most favoured, not to mention, most carried designs. Sadly, that may have changed.
The trouble began with a brief touch-up on the edge of my M. May Wharncliffe Ettrick. Upon sharpening the blade, I found, quite horrifyingly, that the tip was now protruding out of the knife's frame. (Proud tip) Seeing that this was clearly an issue, I attempted to fix the knife using a variety of useless methods, simply to give up after realising I'd only made things worse. I ended up taking the knife to a professional for re-profiling. After this instance, I figured I'd encountered a fluke...however, when sharpening a batch of knives, (including a set of Ettricks) I found this problem was reoccurring. And, in a moment of my perfectionistic stupidity, I (once again) attempted to remedy the issue on my own. And just like before, I was forced to concede and bring the knives in to be fixed.
Now while I certainly could have done a better job of dealing with this problem, the point is that I shouldn't HAVE to. This is a major flaw in the design of these knives, as customers shouldn't have to go through such a hassle in fixing something that is quite avoidable on the side of the manufacturer. As it would seem, not all Ettricks are made equal, as one particular example, that being the A. Wright in Olive, was made in such a way that prevents the tip from being easily exposed. Sadly, if all my other Ettricks were built this way, there wouldn’t have been any issue.
Overall, this has been a learning experience for me, as I now pay very close attention to the knives I own and buy, for the sake of spotting this problem before it can arise. Again, the user should be able to sharpen their knife for years before a proud tip could even be possible. I understand some designs are more at risk of this issue, but seeing that one of my Ettricks is free from this problem, despite the others being riddled with it, I find it hard to excuse as merely “part of the design”.
In the end, this has led to me moving to other knives as the focus of my collecting. I find my interests drifting heavily to French regional knives. This is partially due to their impressive selection and historical value, but also the frequency to feature a blade tip that rests on the inner backspring, which allows for extensive sharpening without the risk of a proud tip.
Regardless, I urge knife owners and collectors to pay close attention to their knives. I, for one, was shocked as to how many blades sat dangerously close to being proud…
#edc
#knives
#gentleman
#britishblades
I’m going to have to take a good look at mine. I don’t think I have ever sharpened any of them, but the standard answer has always been to reduce the kick.
It would be interesting to compare the kick on your olive wood one with the others.
I think that adjusting the kick as the knife ages and wear is the way these knives are designed. There really ought to be a sharpening or two before the kick needs adjustment.
French knives have always had a reputation for blade rap, hence you should never let them snap shut.
I understand that knives will gain proud tips as they age and are used. What bothers me is how easy it was to expose the blades on the Ettricks! Typically, knives would last a decent while before the user should even need to worry about fixing a proud tip. These took very little time at all, which was my main gripe. Again, others have said that this is common, but in my experience, one usually doesn't need to worry about it so soon...odd.
Thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts, as always.
Cheers!
I've checked mine. I only have 3. 2 are buried deep in the blade well. 1 is very close to the top of the blade well. I do not carry them very often. I will make a point of carrying the suspected one next month.
Do not feel paranoid about other slipjoints. I will try and raise a tip and then file the kick.
I like seeing a well used blade. They are usually on American channels and involve someone that only carries one knife, usually their Dads. I bet they just file down the kick as the blade wears out. Us as knife collectors are probably the worst people to address this issue 😂. I sometimes love the idea of having one knife. But we have an affliction 😂.
Ah, I certainly agree with that last bit! Part of me wonders how an onlooker would view us, collectively, in situations like this. 😂 One of the problems with being a (perfectionist) collector, is that it's very easy to go beyond what's reasonable in terms of finding flaws in a knife. I pondered whether or not this was merely me complaining about something unnecessary. But even if it is, I still felt the need to share my situation. Even if all I do is expose my own incompetence or ignorance, it's still a learning experience in my eyes.
Thanks for watching, as always.
Cheers!
Thank you for showing us this problem, I was all set to pull the trigger on a MM Ettrick, but I won't bother now,,.. I was looking forward to my first Ettrick,.. maybe I might go for the peach pruner, but I love the Wharncliffe above all others,,
All the best my friend from across the pond, 👍
Perhaps I was too harsh in my complaints, but I felt the need to share my experience in this situation. Maybe in the future, my verdict may change? In the meantime, I'd still recommend the Ettrick Pruner with no issue!
Cheers, as always!
Not sure where I stand exactly in the hobby but I'm definitly more of a sharpening nerd than a collector.
I've had this proud tip issue happen on a variety of knives. Just recently a boker barlow, but I also remember my Spyderco Endela K390, a Grohman knife and some others I can't recall.
I fix this by grinding the spine of the tip to lower it down. And then try to blend it so it doesn't change the profile too much.
But I definitly oversharpen my knives. I've thinned down the grind, reprofiled and played with different behind the edge thickness and edge angle with most of my pocket and kitchen knives, even my more expensives one.
That's what I like the most of the hobby honestly. Even though sometimes I struggle to refinish a knife to my liking and feel kinda bummed to have uglied a nice looking blade, i'm really interested in peformance over esthetics.
That said, for the issue to happen after only a single sharpening that's pretty annoying!! I wish more designs would take that into consideration.
I'm certainly no professional in terms of sharpening, far from it, in fact. I've messed up blades before and had to deal with the fruits of my own idiocy. In this instance, I see the trouble as a mutual failing. In terms of the Ettricks, they were already close to being proud before sharpening, that's something I would hold against the maker, as a knife should allow leeway for a decent amount of use before the tip is anywhere near the top of the blade well. On my part, I acknowledge I could've done better in many aspects. I likely should've taken greater care to not oversharpen, or to simply drop the kick as others have suggested. By all means, I'm certainly aware my own incompetence helped worsen the issue. But despite that, I've never had a problem like this to such a degree as these Ettricks, so I believe the design itself may be in need of reevaluation.
"Feel kinda bummed to have uglied a nice looking blade" -That summarises my entire experience! 😅
Thanks for the longer comment, I very much appreciate it.
Cheers!
Oh wow. Very good points here! Very good to know. I can see how this bothers you. Great looking knives! Thank you!!
It's sad, as I still love these knives, and I hope that others can, too. If newer models are made like the Olive variant, then I'll likely return to collecting them!
Thanks for stopping in!
Cheers, as always!
How much steel did you remove with the first sharpening ? Normally it should be a miniscule amount.
Each model varied. My memory is poor, but I'll try my best to recall how many sharpenings each piece went through.
The Ebony one was the oldest, and it went through multiple sharpening instances. I remember chipping it at one point, so naturally, fixing a problem such as that will require more material to be removed.
The Rosewood model came practically blunt, so it took a decent while to sharpen it to a working edge. Afterwards, it got sharpened maybe once or twice more, but the main issue was that the tip had been somewhat rounded, so fixing the profile took a while longer. It was during the reprofiling process when the tip became proud.
The Michael May Bog Oak model was the same as the Rosewood. The tip came rounded, so I attempted to fix it, only to cause the blade to sit slightly proud. At that point, I should've just dropped the kick, so I will be fair in saying part of this "Tragedy" was built upon my own ignorance.
The Buffalo model came practically proud, not to mention fairly dull, so it took very little to cause a certain degree of overhang.
The A. Wright Bog Oak models were both fairly close to the top of the blade well, when new. The first of the two was used more, so it was sharpened twice, I believe. The other model, (which still has its proper shape) isn't proud, yet, but sits very close to being proud.
Overall, I likely oversharpened them, which is entirely my own fault. Even so, the fact that the blades came so close to being proud when new is an issue in itself. Again, I'm very bad at sharpening, and probably showcased that by making this video. But I still see this as a problem, as I've messed up blades before, and never come close to a proud tip.
Thanks for watching.
Cheers!
I haven’t started sharpening any of my knives but this is such incredible food for thought~ thanks for sharing your experience
Thanks for watching!
Cheers!
Oh dear, the tragedy is what's been done to these knives. I cannot agree with your criticism of the design, you can take the tiniest amount off the kick, hardly anything given the leverage of the blade. There appears to be plenty of kick left on these blades here. Perfection is not a trait of this calibre of Sheffield knife, I'm sorry you've had this disappointment but I hope they will continue to charm you. Thank you for sharing, it would not have been an easy upload but I bet it helps with moving on.
After reading through these comments, I certainly see where I went wrong. My main reason for not dropping the kick was a fear of permanently altering the knives for the worse, but the great irony was that was the very thing my "solution" resulted in. When I see a problem arise, I have a tendency to try fixing it in the moment. Oftentimes, this leads to me making a spontaneous decision that I'll likely regret later. Call it stubbornness, ignorance or misplaced perfectionism, but I'm certainly not proud of it! 😅
As I've said in other replies, I still very much like this pattern, and will most likely resume my pursuit of them in the future. But in the meantime, I'll take this entire experience as one to learn from, and hopefully, emerge with more wisdom regarding how to act if such a situation occurs again.
Thanks for commenting!
Cheers!
I totally get why this would upset you.
Well, when you discover a problem via your own stupidity, it only makes said problem, worse!
Cheers, as always!
I think the reason this problem occurs is in the essential design combination of a short Wharncliffe blade with a long swayback handle.
The solution is to make your blade smaller as needed. It'll whittle better and better until it quite disappears.
Perhaps you should see my Ettricks, on my channel. I took off half the mass of one blade getting it trued up. It whittles better than ever.
Almost all my Wharnies end up with a bit of sway to them, still I greatly appreciate the purism regarding the archetype of the pattern.
You make some good points! I also just checked your channel, and I really enjoy your videos, well done!
Cheers! 😊
I just happened to be home this week-end and heard that the shepherds of the Ettrick valley will stand vigil over the loss of their leader. You will be missed.
A shame, indeed. 😅 I still adore the design, and will be carrying them, as usual. But I'll find it hard to be motivated in regards to collecting any more Ettricks for a while. Perhaps in time that may change. One can hope.
Cheers, as always!
@@TheKnifeRaven Well, if you keep using them, you'll be in good company. The great knife enthusiast Charlie Campagna lists the Ettrick in his top 5 custom knives. Listen from 49:30, Episode 46, The Catch Bit Show podcast.
@@IanRosie-mx6rn Ah, very interesting! I never knew Charlie had such good taste! Although, his GEC Lambsfoot SFO should have spoken volume!
I suspect my title of 'Ettrick Junkie' will be revoked, for now. But who knows, maybe I'll come around, eventually! 🤣
Cheers, as always, Ian!
@@TheKnifeRaven His GEC Ancient Barlow SFO in scratted bone is on my list of wants. One day...
@@IanRosie-mx6rn Ooh, I've seen that one, it's a beauty! Best wishes in getting one without taking out a mortgage, last I recall, they're ridiculously expensive!
Cheers!
You've probably heard this, but I've found that a ceramic honing rod works well and doesn't take steel off. Might work well for the other two to keep them from the tragedy.
A good idea! I typically use a ceramic rod for touch-ups, but have to resort to a stone for actual sharpening.
Cheers!
Sorry to hear your story. It’s difficult for me to visualize why this happened without seeing the condition of your knives after you sharpened them and before you sent them to the next sharpener. Careful sharpening can remove less than a tenth of a millimetre from the apex, unless chips or other major repairs are being performed. I’ll have to buy some of these knives to find out for myself what you’re experiencing
I should've taken pictures! I'm such a fool!!
As for the sharpening, I mentioned in a reply to Oregon Knife Guy the kinds of sharpening instances these knives went through. The Ebony model was chipped at one point, the Bog Oak M. May and Rosewood A. Wright both had rounded tips, etc, etc. In most cases, the blades were already quite close to being proud to begin with, but through my own mediocrity in sharpening them, I likely pushed them "over the edge" so to speak.
Either way, this may just be a problem with my handling of the situation, as others have stated I probably should've just dropped the kick. 'Twas a learning experience, I suppose!
Cheers, as always!
@@TheKnifeRaven don’t be too hard on yourself. I see you’ve received a fair bit of feedback since I originally posted this comment. Tough situation with your collection being effected, and then a bunch of critiques on top of it. Love the channel! Best of luck in your future sharpening endeavours. Buy a couple of cheap used slipjoints and grind the kicks! You’ll be surprised how much the blade drops with very little material removed. Then you’ll feel more confident adjusting your nice knives
@@swamp.stomper Well, I've just received a comment from Sanctified EDC, and it seems I'm not alone in experiencing this issue! Even so, I'll view it as a good lesson to be careful with my sharpening attempts.
I always welcome the comments and insights of my viewers, even when they tell me I'm wrong! 😄
Cheers, as always!
@@TheKnifeRaven I will have to learn about this for myself and buy some Ettricks to sharpen! I’ll surely speak up if I have issues similar to yours, if only in the comments. It’s a good excuse for me to get some Sheffield into the collection
As it is such an old pattern I wonder how the users of the Ettrick dealt with the problem I would guess they just filed down the kick but you have to wonder how many times you could do that, seems to me the design has an inbuilt flaw however they kept making them without change that is a mystery to me. The Ettrick pattern never appealed to me so I never bought one, I feel your disappointment perhaps the makers should use a harder steel that holds an edge that would help.
Most likely, the kicks were filed down. Although, it still puzzles me how the one model (Olive A. Wright) seems perfectly free from this issue. Perhaps Wright's are using a new method of construction? If so, I'd be very curious to know how they remedy this.
Thanks for watching, as always, Lewis.
Cheers!
Filing the kick also lowers the nail nick to the point of making it useless.
This is very true, and part of the reason I didn't want to risk filing the kick, originally. With how proud a couple of the blades were, it would take a significant amount of filing to drop it, but at that point, it may be nigh impossible to open!
Cheers!
This is why I rarely sharpen my knives, I also only ever use them for extremely light duties. I'm especially paranoid about stuff like this happening. I don't need a surgically sharp blade for edc. In most cases stock edge is good enough for me, or else just stropping it.
Ettrick is simply too small of a blade to hold up to heavy sharpening. I'm happy with my oak A.Wright ettrick, for light use it's good enough.
I try to never damage or "abuse" the edges, but even light use after a few weeks/months will require a touch-up, eventually.
Naturally, I'm a collector, so I don't need to worry about completely wearing away a blade. Even so, this issue has made me a lot more careful about sharpening my knives-something I'd say, is a positive in the long run.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Cheers!
I’m sure you can get in touch with Michael and get him to put a new blade in for you. I know that he does do repairs, have you tried filing down the kick on the backspring instead. This is such a shame I hope you find a way to resolve it without reprofiling the blade
Perhaps in time I'll contact Michael for a repair, but in the meantime, filing down the kick seems to be the best decision. Sadly, however, the nailnick is fairly low on some of these, so I'm afraid dropping them any further could lead to the knives being nigh impossible to open.
Cheers!
Great video.
Im definitely not into moaning about knife manufacturers as most of my knives are very good.
However, i really have started to have an issue with Sheffield knives from my limited purchases.
Every single one of my recent purchases has had some sort of issue, which in my opinion could have been rectified before it left the maker. It really has put me off purchasing anymore. I will never understand why they think it is acceptable to send me something that is obviously not fit for purpose. It really does the reputation of English cutlers any good sending out piss poor products and they will not be receiving anymore of my money in the future.
All the Best David ✌️
Sadly, I've encountered more disastrous flaws in the past. The most horrid being snapped back springs on exactly FIVE Sheffield knives. Thankfully, all but one were either refunded or replaced. Despite this, I'm now very cautious about over-tight springs!
This issue is, to me, an issue. Even if my poor sharpening skills worsened it, the problem would have made itself known, regardless as to whether or not I did a crummy job of sharpening. The one (good) model, the Olive version, is excellent in terms of exposed tip risk, due to being heavily sunk into the frame. Now if only they could all be like that, then I'd likely have nothing to complain about...except maybe concerningly tight backsprings! 🤣
Thanks for watching and commenting.
Cheers, David!
U think you are 💯 spot on with this pattern, this is why I do not buy the Ettrick and stopped after I had the same issue as yourself !!! And the spear point as well I had an issue with a whiskey barrel wood handle spear point that got a proud tip after my first sharpening attempt and I can sharpen. Maybe that’s why these are $30-45$ . Thank you for the wonderful video
Well, I'm glad I wasn't crazy in assuming there was an issue. I was beginning to think I was entirely at fault for the flaw, but now realising this issue is present even for seasoned sharpeners is telling. Knowing that this has happened to others is unfortunate, but perhaps multiple people addressing the problem could lead to a change for the better.
Thanks for sharing your experience, I appreciate it.
Cheers, as always!
@@TheKnifeRaven it’s not your fault !!! It’s a legit problem. By the way thank I love all that you do and all of content ❤️🙏👍
@@Sanctified_EDC_GearMany thanks for the kind words, friend! 😊
I thought I was already subscribed to you, but it turns out, I wasn't! Time to remedy that!
Cheers!
@@TheKnifeRaven thank you 🙏 I’ve got along ways to go in my opinion to get to your level. Your very well spoken and I think you do an exceptional job when your discussing knifes. Blessings 🙏
@@Sanctified_EDC_Gear Well, even I have a long way to go! After all, there's well-spoken, and then there's Stefan Schmalhaus! 😁
Cheers and God bless! 🙏
I have a newer one, in rose wood, from AW. Not proud at all, so maybe just a problem with the older ones? I agree with you though.
Well, the Olive model is far newer than the rest. (From A. Wright) Perhaps this won't be an issue going forward?
Regardless, I still felt a need to make this video, even if I end up learning that the problem has been fixed, later on. In the meantime, I believe my viewers should be informed about this so as to not make the same mistakes I did.
Cheers, as always!
@@TheKnifeRaven I think it's good you made the video. I also think the Ashley took over, they seem to be better, But I am not expert. You have more experience with A Wright than i do haha
@@RandysWSG Well, the video was worth it, for the insight of my (infinitely more experienced) commenters, alone!
I'm certain in time there will be more Ettrick videos on here. Hopefully, they're even better than before! 😁
Cheers, as always!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Certainly not 'broke', but a bit annoying having to file the kick down, constantly!
Cheers!
@@TheKnifeRaven I understand.
I don't hate to tell you this but there isn't a fault with the design. The fault is with the owner. Your fault lies with inexperience. Sharpening should be done only to the point of actually sharpening. The Ettrick is a pocket knife for fine work. It should only ever really need a strapping on leather or a hard Arkansas stone. Like a razor. Chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned and soldier on. You may not know this but "Men" that actually use their tools more than to pet them and look at them, expect to maintain their tools. Every knife develops a proud tip eventually if you use it and sharpen it.
Well, I certainly am mediocre at sharpening, but that shouldn't change the fact that I've sharpened many other knives, including the Case Swayback--a similar, precise knife, with no issue.
I understand very well that blades will eventually become proud over time. What irks me is how little use I actually managed to get out of the knives before this happened. As I mentioned, the Olive wood model's blade is significantly deeper in the blade well, which would dramatically reduce this problem.
Long story short, yes, I did a bad job with sharpening. I'm still learning and hope to improve my skills as I go. But the knives that suffered from proud tips so easily, I believe could have been designed/assembled with more care. As it isn’t acceptable to send out a product, knowing full well that the customer will have to essentially “fix” an aspect of the knife after very minimal use.
I appreciate the comment.
Cheers!
KR you are better than the telly The Ettrick pattern was not on my radar until your passion was unleashed on me I now have an A Wright buffalo cover ettrick ,which I love thank you for putting me on to this pattern .On the proud point .God hates proud !!! leave it blunt and keep it for show buy a R/Rdr butcher the edge to cut .Buy Barlows .dont over think stuff and just enjoy,
Well, despite this moderate catastrophe, I still stand by my love for the Ettrick pattern. It's just a shame about the design, as I really would like to continue buying these, but I don't know if I'd be able to look past this issue. Hopefully the newer models are made like the Olive one, in that case, I'll happily continue buying them.
Thanks for commenting, as always.
Cheers!