I totally agree. I’m addicted to playing as Sweden, and every single game I try to turn Courland into a puppet for the sake of helping to cover myself against polish/Prussian land attacks. I also often go for Hannover as a protectorate so that I don’t need to defend Denmark as intently. Those two choke points covered by buffer states makes my army exponentially more efficient
My biggest issue with protectorates in Empire is that despite not being independent they can still perform their own diplomatic actions. I find that Paradox does vassals/personal unions/protectorates/etc so much better than CA because all these buffer states, regardless of their technical term throughout the eras, aren't supposed to be independent. There is a thing called being a tributary state, which only involves paying tribute to another nation, like the Duchy of Muscovy was to the Golden Horde until they managed to break free. Tributary nations are still independent, they just pay a tribute to another nation basically as a price for a non aggression pact. Vassals, protectorates, etc, differ from that in that they do lose their independence to their overlord and do what their overlord commands. This is true in Empire too as protectorates can be called into wars just like allies, but can never refuse a call to arms, due to not being independent. Yet for some reason AI nations, including your own allies, can declare war on your protectorates, which is very nonsensical. In Paradox titles you simply can't engage with other nations' vassals/puppets/protectorates/etc because they aren't independent and you can only engage in diplomacy with independent entities. So throughout most of the game if you ever want to have allies you don't want to risk also having protectorates as your allies can declare war on your protectorates for no logical reason. Similarly as someone else here mentioned if you call a protectorate into your war and than you peace out eventually your protectorate technically still remains in the war, because they are allowed to have independent diplomacy from you, and thus get annoyed with you. Which basically means protectorates are only good for defensive wars, which greatly limit their usefulness. So yeah it's a massive pain in the ass if you actually want to engage in meaningful diplomacy in Empire rather than just fight the entire world. I mean yeah there's all the anti player bias and whatnot, but it still doesn't prevent you from engaging in a key aspect of this game. Protectorates kind of do that, well at least greatly limit your ability to engage with diplomacy. Thus I find the best protectorates to hold, for trade purposes as you mentioned, are for example Denmark after you conquer Copenhagen and leave them with just Iceland as it's far enough out of the way for anyone, especially your own allies, from declaring war on them and you still get a permanent trade partner that isn't useful for much else(like participating in wars) which is absolutely fine in this case. I much less enjoy using protectorates as buffer states as I find it requires way too much micromanagement and luck to not have them screw you over.
I always use the protectorate strategy when playing. Turning almost every minor nation into a protectorate. As long as I can trade with them. Typically I'll have 10 plus. It keeps me from having to station troops there as well as providing cash flow. Not to mention buffers with states I'm not ready to go to war with. All I have to do is put a partial army near my protectorates capital so if its attacked I only have to deploy to support my allies army making it two to one odds.
With places like "The knights of saint John" I occupy the island long enough to build a trading port and then allow a rebellion to foster before making it a protectorate, there is alot of mo e to be made from trading with places short on resources, given that they buy alot.
Adding the trading port is a must I agree. I don't think I have had as much fun playing before I started playing for protectorates honestly. Thank you for you comments sir.
Occupation all the way, by late game tax income is so significant that trade isn't that important anymore. All that income also allows you to have many full stacks spread across your holdings so you're always ready to fight a threat within a turn or two if not immediately. Nice vid tho.
I tend to base my decitions arround RP/Immersion for protectorates, for example with Prussia I will take West Prussia and Saxony but leave Curtland and Poland-Lithuania as protectorates as they aren't part of Germany.
Agreed too on protectorates. We can't manage whole area by ourselves. Having protectorate here n there also gonna help if something happend like rebellion or some surprised attack
Will protectorates ever turn against you? Right now I’m playing as Prussia I turned Hanover and Saxonney into my protectorates. I gave handover the Netherlands and all of England and I gave Saxonney from Bavaria to the border of France. Are they going to randomly turn on me at some point or are they forever indebted?
Great question. Yes they can turn on you. I have only seen it if both of your protectorates are at war with each other. If that ever does happen you must keep them separate as much as possible. It does not always happen. It only once has happened to me in my France all out war campaign. I don’t remember which part but I do know it was late in the series.
Faramir's Rangers shit I didn’t even think about them attacking each other. But that’s what I’m worried happening is like I have the game secure and then one of them decides to take me on and there goes 1/3 of my empire essentially.
@@michaeld3059 what I do now when selecting a protectorate is make sure the religion is the same as mine. When a prospected protectorate declares war I do not call on allies so when I make them a protectorate they are not at war with other protectorates or allies. I will be doing an update to this video shortly covering these details. Always learning new things.
Faramir's Rangers Thank you please do! The problem I find is that say I have Hanover as a protectorate Austria and their turn to Claire’s war on me and brings in their allies. I then call my allies so Hanover answers the call. I end up beating up Austria and when I get them to finally agree to peace Hanover is mad because they are still at war with them and I have not been able to fix that
How are so many ETW players cool with those ugly borders? When I play ETW or NTW, I spend most of my time constructing balanced countries that make sense geographically, I want a good looking map.
Lol. They best ones are on your border. I don’t think there is a certain strongest one. By the time you make them a protectorate the only thing strong about them might be their depression.
@@e.r.a6358 no only the once you mention can because it is a mission to complete. Poland-Lithuania can not for theirs nor the ottomans. But did you know if your protectorates control regions that you must control to win a campaign that it counts for you.
I totally agree. I’m addicted to playing as Sweden, and every single game I try to turn Courland into a puppet for the sake of helping to cover myself against polish/Prussian land attacks. I also often go for Hannover as a protectorate so that I don’t need to defend Denmark as intently. Those two choke points covered by buffer states makes my army exponentially more efficient
And I forgot to mention, but the trade with puppets is so key
@@comeintotheforest totally agree the trade makes it a huge win and also the fact u get part of their income
12 year old game, Two year old video and yet here I am, drinking it in 👍
Enjoy! soak it up lol
My biggest issue with protectorates in Empire is that despite not being independent they can still perform their own diplomatic actions. I find that Paradox does vassals/personal unions/protectorates/etc so much better than CA because all these buffer states, regardless of their technical term throughout the eras, aren't supposed to be independent. There is a thing called being a tributary state, which only involves paying tribute to another nation, like the Duchy of Muscovy was to the Golden Horde until they managed to break free. Tributary nations are still independent, they just pay a tribute to another nation basically as a price for a non aggression pact. Vassals, protectorates, etc, differ from that in that they do lose their independence to their overlord and do what their overlord commands.
This is true in Empire too as protectorates can be called into wars just like allies, but can never refuse a call to arms, due to not being independent. Yet for some reason AI nations, including your own allies, can declare war on your protectorates, which is very nonsensical. In Paradox titles you simply can't engage with other nations' vassals/puppets/protectorates/etc because they aren't independent and you can only engage in diplomacy with independent entities.
So throughout most of the game if you ever want to have allies you don't want to risk also having protectorates as your allies can declare war on your protectorates for no logical reason. Similarly as someone else here mentioned if you call a protectorate into your war and than you peace out eventually your protectorate technically still remains in the war, because they are allowed to have independent diplomacy from you, and thus get annoyed with you. Which basically means protectorates are only good for defensive wars, which greatly limit their usefulness.
So yeah it's a massive pain in the ass if you actually want to engage in meaningful diplomacy in Empire rather than just fight the entire world. I mean yeah there's all the anti player bias and whatnot, but it still doesn't prevent you from engaging in a key aspect of this game. Protectorates kind of do that, well at least greatly limit your ability to engage with diplomacy. Thus I find the best protectorates to hold, for trade purposes as you mentioned, are for example Denmark after you conquer Copenhagen and leave them with just Iceland as it's far enough out of the way for anyone, especially your own allies, from declaring war on them and you still get a permanent trade partner that isn't useful for much else(like participating in wars) which is absolutely fine in this case. I much less enjoy using protectorates as buffer states as I find it requires way too much micromanagement and luck to not have them screw you over.
In my game play, I made the Huron, Pueblo, Plains, Iroquios, Cherokee as Protectorates (Indian Reservations) of the United States XD
nice. I have been told by a reliable source that the natives can be very healthy income makers as protectorates.
@@FaramirsRangers aye hahaha glad to have them in the union 🇺🇸
How did you it? Are you playing as US in the campaign?
I havent got that protectorate option after I invaded the whole american continent
I always use the protectorate strategy when playing. Turning almost every minor nation into a protectorate. As long as I can trade with them. Typically I'll have 10 plus. It keeps me from having to station troops there as well as providing cash flow. Not to mention buffers with states I'm not ready to go to war with. All I have to do is put a partial army near my protectorates capital so if its attacked I only have to deploy to support my allies army making it two to one odds.
With places like "The knights of saint John" I occupy the island long enough to build a trading port and then allow a rebellion to foster before making it a protectorate, there is alot of mo e to be made from trading with places short on resources, given that they buy alot.
Adding the trading port is a must I agree. I don't think I have had as much fun playing before I started playing for protectorates honestly. Thank you for you comments sir.
Occupation all the way, by late game tax income is so significant that trade isn't that important anymore. All that income also allows you to have many full stacks spread across your holdings so you're always ready to fight a threat within a turn or two if not immediately. Nice vid tho.
Thank you so much for your insight. This is going to help my game play greatly
Glad to help. I have more like it coming soon.
I'd rather have protectorates because of the money they give you and the forces that they can keep in regions, so I agree with you.
Yes and years ago I could care less about protectorates lol
How much money do you get?
I tend to base my decitions arround RP/Immersion for protectorates, for example with Prussia I will take West Prussia and Saxony but leave Curtland and Poland-Lithuania as protectorates as they aren't part of Germany.
Nice strategy
Autism.
Agreed too on protectorates.
We can't manage whole area by ourselves. Having protectorate here n there also gonna help if something happend like rebellion or some surprised attack
Absolutely right on
I always choose to have protectorates. It gives me border without having armies there so i can focus other regions for conquering.
Will protectorates ever turn against you? Right now I’m playing as Prussia I turned Hanover and Saxonney into my protectorates. I gave handover the Netherlands and all of England and I gave Saxonney from Bavaria to the border of France. Are they going to randomly turn on me at some point or are they forever indebted?
Great question. Yes they can turn on you. I have only seen it if both of your protectorates are at war with each other. If that ever does happen you must keep them separate as much as possible. It does not always happen. It only once has happened to me in my France all out war campaign. I don’t remember which part but I do know it was late in the series.
Faramir's Rangers shit I didn’t even think about them attacking each other. But that’s what I’m worried happening is like I have the game secure and then one of them decides to take me on and there goes 1/3 of my empire essentially.
@@michaeld3059 what I do now when selecting a protectorate is make sure the religion is the same as mine. When a prospected protectorate declares war I do not call on allies so when I make them a protectorate they are not at war with other protectorates or allies. I will be doing an update to this video shortly covering these details. Always learning new things.
Faramir's Rangers Thank you please do! The problem I find is that say I have Hanover as a protectorate Austria and their turn to Claire’s war on me and brings in their allies. I then call my allies so Hanover answers the call. I end up beating up Austria and when I get them to finally agree to peace Hanover is mad because they are still at war with them and I have not been able to fix that
@@michaeld3059 sometimes you got to go it alone without your allies
Enjoyed the video, but there is no "t" is Courland!
how do you make protectorates tho, like release countries as your puppets (like hoi4)
Is there a guide anywhere that goes over the exact technique on how to make a nation a protectorate?
Yes I have a video on that also
So you give them an extra territory, besiege both, take the capital than they’ll agree to it?
How are so many ETW players cool with those ugly borders? When I play ETW or NTW, I spend most of my time constructing balanced countries that make sense geographically, I want a good looking map.
Who you think are the strongest protectorate?
Oh yeah
@@FaramirsRangers What?
Lol. They best ones are on your border. I don’t think there is a certain strongest one. By the time you make them a protectorate the only thing strong about them might be their depression.
new spain for the win!!
Who tf is " White Might?" Looks a bit provocative.
So if I invade England I can give them to my protectorate?
Yes you sure can.
Hey bro can we annex our protectorste?
Cause France, British, and Spain can
@@e.r.a6358 no only the once you mention can because it is a mission to complete. Poland-Lithuania can not for theirs nor the ottomans. But did you know if your protectorates control regions that you must control to win a campaign that it counts for you.