I've been getting some comments saying that I've stolen this theory from another God of War UA-camr. I address this and explain things in this follow-up video: ua-cam.com/video/grDRlL-deVU/v-deo.html
this could also explain why Atreus couldn't talk/understand Odin's Ravens like he could other animals. Because they don't have animal souls, they have parts of Odin's
I liked the part where you point out the “nooo” Odin says when one of his ravens got killed. But he didnt hesitate to kill thor and disregard Baldur’s death “his mind was gone”. Good vid
Kratos pointed out that Odin had lifetimes preparing for Ragnarok. It would make sense that he evaluated every single possibility, every possible outcome, even the most unlikely or unpleasant ones. So it would be plausible that he would create more than one safeguard in case he actually dies.
@@KaptainKuba Yo Kuba, you ever thought about how badass it would've been if they added Sleipnir? HUGE missed opportunity in my opinion. Imagine if in the boss battle with Odin we had to fight him on his horse, kinda like the Barbarian King in GoW 2. A big ass 8 legged horse that's infused with bifrost, and once we finally knock Odin off and kill Sleipnir, THEN we get to throw hands Odin. That'd actually be a cool theory video, what happened to Sleipnir? Cuz we see Odin riding him to battle in multiple murals throughout both games, but he never makes an appearance in game. Kinda weird.
@@KaptainKuba something you did not mention is that there are multiple parts of the soul Fenrir came back to life with only part of his soul and he is now in the body of garm Same thing applies to others like the world serpent as his soul use to belong to a giant Odin must’ve had some way to infuse his soul into these ravens and this is why he wanted them to escape as even if parts of souls have been shown to allow someone to live on in another body Maybe he will try taking over a gods body…
3:06 I’d like to note that the reason Odin threw the Raven at Freya was to have one of her hands occupied so she could let go of the noose. If you took time to notice, Odin catches his breath right after he throws the raven, and his hands are in a position as if he was holding something away from his neck. The reason, I believe, is that Freya can physically control how tight the noose is, that is why she restrains Odin by stretching the rope so that the noose became tighter around his neck, choking Odin more.
@Synderth MC that doesn't directly indicate he knows how to use it "better". Although in Odins case I'd say potentially, yes. He knew multiple types of magic and could've combined them. Not to mention his relentless drive for answers of the unknown, and pushing boundaries. A trait the giants did not possess in the slightest. The giants seemed pretty peaceful and uninterested in immortality. Odin is evil, but that doesn't make him less capable of using magics in any way as you saw he ended up being more efficient in vanir magic than Freya even. Confirmed by Mimir. I'm not saying the giants couldn't do it either btw just wouldn't, for reasons of corruption. Sorta like seior magic. Whereas Odin wouldn't worry about those consequences in the least. Odin also had experience with seior magic too which is confirmed by the green ravens/Raven keeper tasks. Plot twist Odin is really just a magician posing as a God lmao!
Cool theory, i know GoW strays and takes alot of liberties with the source material but in the Norse myth, Hugin and Munin are an extension of Odin himself, Also Hugnin means thoughts while Munin means memory. Instead of a duplicate, Odin could have split his mind into 2, with his memories stored in Munin while his thoughts stored in Hugnin. It would be cool to have an amnesia but smart Odin comeback, he still has the thirst for knowledge but none of the memory of who he was and Atreus next arc is trying to redeem him and make him be better. It kinda ties with the theme of can a monsters become good person.
@@Lord_Ivoundy_Creood whatever. odin is so fked up tho. No more aesir, nothing is on his side and now he's just a bird having no way to restore his body because it probably vaporized by surtr's flaming sword
I 100% buy this theory. Odin whispering into atreus mind as he travels across realms to find the giants would make for an amazing story along with how he gets a trickster moniker. Perhaps it's Kratos goal to travel across realms to undo the wreckage caused by Odin through his son.
Even more info that could support this, in Norse myths Huggin and Munnin are part of Odin. Huggin is Odins thought and Munnin his memory. So they may have altered it slightly in the game to be odin himself
Puts the one sided conversation you can listen in on Odin having with Huggin in a different perspective. Mans literally having an argument with himself and telling himself to learn how to take yes for an answer.
So weird that I just finished my second playthrough of game on no mercy and I was thinking that when atreus said: Huginn made it out. I told myself that maybe part of Odin's soul is in Huggin's body and ten minutes later, there was the notification!
Maybe this is why there was only 2 games in the Norse pantheon Maybe they will come back in another way in the next up coming games These up coming games can give us a lot of info on Athena as well as we still don’t really have an idea of what’s going on with her except theories If Athena really was manipulating Odin like some theories say him coming back just gives Athena an opportunity to make him a pawn again
@@king3860 yes it’s stated by the devs that ragnorak is the last game in the Norse panethon Wether that means we will be following Atreus and his journey to other pantheons to find giants or kratos going to another pantheon or even going back to Greece is a mystery
@@TrippieMint wow ok. I'm surprised because it feels like there's still so much more that they could still include, and still things that could be touched on. If they do give Atreus his own spin on things then It'll make sense, but if they just basically leave it all behind for another pantheon then it'll kind of feel like wasted potential
My thought is that Huginn is not a part of Odin. Could Huginn be a future ally or helpful friend? If the ravens' minds were erased, and they were experimented on, and Odin made them do his bidding, could the Raven's have become awakened somehow? Muninn remained loyal to the Allfather but Huginn developed a dislike towards him and wasn't completely onboard with what Odin was making him do. Now that Odin is dead, he no longer has a magical control over Huginn who is now free.
The green ravens were all grateful to be realised from Odin, maybe he’s the same. Honestly think people just look too deep, but I suppose any potential dlc will shed light on the subject.
Your theory is good. And with Odin basically knowing all Atreus, Kratos and Freyas plans from masquerading around as Tyr, I'm sure he had a fail safe plan for his eventual demise. And Huginn would be the perfect vessel to house Odin's soul. Side note: Isn't it amazing when you finally run into the real Tyr and find out Odin's version was 90% accurate? 😂😂Odin was like, "Screw this, I don't have time to learn Tai Chi."
Loki should’ve used a shockwave arrow on that bird instead of a sigil arrow. If Odin returns I think we’re going to see a more, barbaric version of him because everyone knows his tricks now.
Not if it's in the realm of another pantheon. His only concern would be Loki but if he plays "helpful companion" and manipulates other people in Loki's absence he might be able to spread his influence in the shadows with Loki none the wiser
I’m not an expert in Norse mythology at all but I am from Sweden so I learned a bit of basics in pre-school. If I remember correctly his ravens were kind of like extensions of himself. I also know for a fact that ravens signified Odins presence so from a mythological view I could support this theory!
Do you think maybe similar to Ratatoskr, the way he is able to split and project his personalities (anger, coward, etc) and completely be separate from them yet it's still actually extensions of Ratatoskr himself. The way he did it, Odin may have done the same thing with those 2 birds specifically, they are pieces of him and therefore if his human body dies then he's got 2 left similar to what you've said in your video. Nice theory Kuba. Keep it up!
@houseofaction I'd say that's more being said as they won't be the ones that are the antagonists. I think that whatever the final game is will see many past characters return or reappear. In Norse mythology, Baldur returns from the dead once Ragnarok is over and Fimbulwinter finally ends and gives way to Spring. I've been trying to think of where the series can go from here. It was said in an interview after GoW 2018 dropped that 5 more games were planned and mapped out. So that means at least two more mythologies will be explored if they stick to two games per mythology, although I feel like a return to Greece is in the cards, which means that's either its own game or part of a game where Kratos essentially returns to each land he's been to. I don't think the prophecy of him being worshipped as a just God is about him in any one particular land. I think it will be in all the lands that he steps foot in. So in theory, the next 3 games could each take place in their own land with the final game of this saga (perhaps the series?) taking place in each land Kratos has been in and affected, Greece included.
@@SpaghettiYOLOKingTTVI think the next game will be a kind of mixture between the Norse pantheon and the next one that the game is going to get into. There's still a lot of stuff to tie up in the Norse saga and possibilities to come from it. I hope we get to bring Thor back as an ally by traveling to the lake of souls and collecting his soul parts back. They just have to make sure to get his direction back out of anything that way he won't end up like Brok, not getting an afterlife.
I love Odin’s portrayal in Ragnarok but the way he’s described in 2018 makes Zeus look like saint, and I was expecting a fight to where even Kratos can’t hold back too much
When Odin saw what will happen to Asgard and his death, he believed what he saw 100%, and he is not stupid to think that fighting will save himself from Ragnarok. he know that he will die so the video make sense.
The minute you showed the ravens I thought Horcrux. I was also confused about how no one would discover Tyr was missing in his broom cupboard. Great video!
I really like your theory! Also, in the beginning of 2nd phase of odin boss fight, right before the choir again begins you can hear 2 separate sets of very fast drum beats, which sound like scared birds trapped in a cage trying to flee for their lives, but being held back: Huggin and Munnin. You can also later hear violins, like claws trying to scratch away. But after odin releases his ravens and Munnin dies and Huggin is shot (but lives), the theme suddenly shifts to a forte variation of odin's main theme only, no wings or claw scratches. Like odin is trying to say "HEY LOOK AT ME, THE DISTRACTION! NOTHING OF IMPORTANCE BEHIND YOU! You came for me didn't you? Come at me!" He did it. He got our atention. Huggin escaped.
Its not his theory… the theory is stolen from cookingwithkratos. If you look at the release dates of the vid, you’ll see Kuba has stolen the theory so he can profit more 💀. He disnt even credit him…
@@GowSpeedrunsAndMemes Kuba in this vid explains HOW odin could have survived and the idea of this being a contingency plan, like back-up copies of him/parts of his soul and how Odin is alive within Huggin. While both share the idea of Odin surviving by using his ravens, CwK's vid leans into why Odin is alive as Mimir by disguising himself with his ravens. There is some difference. Plus, lots of detail everywhere hence why different 2 people can come up with a similar theory. Edit: Just to be clear I do not support copying other creators, and I think it would be good if Kuba gave some credit to him if he a accidentally or intentionally copied him. Although I would like to say that, again, there are many people in the comments, including myself that also finished the game with similar theories. 👉❗So yeah, idk what happened, but I think people should check him out and judge for themselves.
@@GowSpeedrunsAndMemesookingwithkratos doesnt deserve respect for one reason. mf speaks as if it is a fact like he works on the game and leaks what santa monica would do to the next game instead of speaking it like a Theory. The funniest bs he said is Odin being Atreus' real Father🤣
I was really confused when everyone was talking about Odin coming back cause I forgot about that part with Sindri smashing the marble after he gets his soul whispered into it. I was seeing these video titles and thinking "Odin will somehow manipulate someone into letting him out and that won't surprise me he is a master manipulator"
I must say. I love this theory. I think it is your most grounded and likely one yet. Not to mention it's super interesting. Maybe in the future you'll make your own game with amazing story twists like these.
@@ragnarok9658 I don't think so really.. they are similar but substantially different... Cooking, concluded that Mimir is Odin in disguise but Kuba focuses more on the details about the ravens surviving as Odin's horcuxes
I think the ravens would be more like split parts of Odin’s soul than duplicates. Plus it’s already been established with Brok that a person can live without parts of their soul. Would be fun to see Odin back in blue 😂😂
An interesting theory that could warrant Odin's return. I am a bit skeptical about it because we see all four parts of Odin's soul imprisoned in giant's marble, before Sindri smashes the marble and the soul inside. Who knows what will happen.
it all depends on Santa Monica. They could retcon it and say that smashing a marble with a soul doesnt necessarily destroy it but does something else, they can make anything up lol
That's exactly what I was thinking about. I guess to defend his theory I'll say maybe odin convinced other aesir gods to give him parts of their soul. Heimdall would definitely agree to sharing 1/4 of his souls with odin.
One thing I'll say about this theory is that many of the small details that seem insignificant that you might not even notice in the game ended up being very intentional on the creator's part either for the sake of establishing/reinforcing themes or for story elements.
They can go with two things with keeping the Raven alive, either make Atreus learn how to use that Raven to learn new magic tricks or like you said bring back Odin.
I also remember Odin having a "meeting" with his ravens when we enter his study for the first time. The ravens didn't seem happy with him for whatever reason. I don't think it will be Odin returning, but there does seem to be one last desperate play from Odin that could cause trouble down the line. We'll see.
Agreed so it would be kinda weird to be arguing with himself. I think it’s no coincidence that the mythology would use ravens as they were used to send messages in ancient times. So if you apply that to how it’s used in the game, the ravens were his agents and acted like an extension of Odin’s perception rather than a copy of himself.
Great explanation!! I fully support this theory. I thought he was way too easy to get rid of, and kind of doubted he’d be destroyed so easily. Let’s see how well this ages!
What I hope is that Hugin and Munin together would be able to recreate Odin. But with one of them dead something will be missing. Don’t have any more precise thoughts, I just want Ragnarök to have been big enough a loss so he have to work to come back.
I think its a great theory, i think Odin is a perfect villian to bring back and would love to see more of him. Ragnarok had a good ending but I feel there is still a lot to learn about this Odin or possibly a slightly different Odin that comes from hugnin. Also if the next game is Egyptian mythology, having a greek god, with norse gods like odin and loki, interacting with Egyptian gods is just an awesome thought in of itself
f you also remember, it’s mentioned that Odin had already found a way to subvert Ragnarok and that he wasn’t worried about it anymore. What if this was because He knew that even if he was defeated, he would still live on through one of his duplicates
Haha! I kid you not-but I wondered why Odin released his ravens like that and I thought at least one of them got away! 😅 And then when I heard and saw Hugin-I was like duuuuude!!!! 😮😮😮 I think you’re on to something, that’s for sure!
This makes so much sense. Regardless, it would be interesting if Odin somehow did return based on the Horcrux theory of yours. Plus, Odin is the type to always be prepared
When i was playing through i had a Theory similar to this, that Odin doesn’t just use them for traversal/spying, but he himself is a shapeshifter of sorts. Or atleast only can turn into his ravens, I mean they are literally connected to him on another level beyond just pets. So maybe he copied himself like a hive mind and he can use them as a place holder to pop a different Odin out when needed all the while giving orders to Atreus. or maybe it’s just a higher plane of consciousness type of thing and his body’s just a shell.
If you look at that scene you notice Atreus arrow only barely hits Huginn. Not only that but when you do the eyes of Odin quests you realize that the Ravens were under his control. Huginn could be alive and escaped simply because Odin died and his control over him was no longer there. Although maybe not because you still have to kill the other ravens for them to no longer be under that control.
Transferring souls seems to be more giant/Dwarven magic. And we see odins soul get whispered into the marble, and get smashed with a hammer. He's just gone.
that would explain everything!! It would even be linked to the conceptions of avatars, reinterpretations and other mythological conceptions of divine existence! Also alluding and referring to the fact that Odin is one-eyed included in soul. Also the return of the undead and unseen Germanic/Norse pantheons!
Man that sounds so cool! I am 100% sure that you are correct with that theory, because Odin deserves a bigger ark for the build up he got in the first game. Also it just hit me that the whole Brock's part soul was missing and he was still alive was to explain this very thing with Odin surviving. I wondered what was the whole purpose of Brock's story of him losing part of his soul, but this could very well be the answer.
Odin being alive is the most "Odin" thing to do lol. I bet he transferred his soul before dying. The whole game is about defying prophecy. If Kratos and Atreus can do it, who's to say Odin can't, he is the All-father after all.
Given what we learn about Odin in GoW4 and Ragnarok, I've largely had that feeling that it was far too easy to take down Odin, in a sense. (Going on from here, I'm disregarding Santa Monica wanting to have only 2 games in the Norse Saga.) Much like what Kratos has said in Ragnarok, Odin has had literal lifetimes to prepare. So, much like a number of people who wouldn't want to die, it wouldn't be surprising if it had crossed Odin's mind, to create a fail safe, for the possibility that if the main body that we see in Ragnarok, wasn't the real, actual, Odin. If Odin can pose as Tyr, to the point where Freya doesn't think twice about the doppelganger, who is to say, that Odin didn't set up someone else to be killed in his place to act as his double. It had bugged me that Atreus sees that Huginn makes it out, but doesn't question in the slightest about the possibility of Odin having another trick up his sleeve. (ie possibly having Huginn be one of his tickets at staying alive.) This would be a great way for Odin to return, since literally nobody would have thought twice about this, since everybody believes him to be dead. Plus, if Odin can have it to where the Einherjar can come back after being beaten in battle, who's to say that it took it a few steps higher to ensure he can come back himself. Another thing that, so far, nobody would think that he would do.
@@GOWRAGNAROK69My guess is not before 2025, or maybe SM Studio hire another smaller team to make some GoW spin off to fill gap between Ragnarok and next pantheon/realm of Gods?! 🤔
Whilst this is a cool theory. I for one still like to believe in a final death of Odin. It's good to actually close a chapter of a story and not constantly reusing old villains draw it out for longer. Kratos and Loki got their closure at the end and it was well deserved. If they do something in the future, then it should be a different era, culture and a different villain
It is explained he left on of the birds at sindis House and is told when he is needed so he can get back without been seen and when odin died it probably broken the conection between them so it's finally a free bird again
2:18 because the ravens are what he uses to teleport people across the realms. Mimir expressly says this, that the ravens are his mode of transportation throughout the realms. Also, it isn't these two ravens that he uses to spy, he has emerald ravens that do that job. The reason why we see him teleport without the ravens present is because they are present, just in the arms of Odin. He was trying to escape the attack. Twice. The reason why they were trying to fly away was to escape. That's why atreus and Freya targeted them, because they both knew what he was trying to do
This theory is actually really valid. Because as you said “why keep Huginn alive?” To add on to that why show a that he’s alive to begin with? Also it could just be a gameplay mechanic but in Gow3 Zeus was able to clone himself and they weren’t just illusions because they could physically harm Kratos. So we know it is possible to clone yourself in the God of War universe.
sindri would never have bothered tyr he actively avoided contact a lot of the time. i'd fully believe that sindri out of either respect or fear of conversation would just outright avoid knocking
This is interesting, and I honestly go back to the raven keep her in the eye of Oden objective where u kill the ravens - that would be an interesting if they make a patch, where you would have to face the final “known” the remenants of ODin ( as like another mini boss after GNA ) - at nifelim tree would be sick - possibly when they install- new game plus but to go back to the line where he said, “can’t be in the two places at once frigg” I thought it was because when they separated or whatever happened, he changed all the times they spoke of her ( in norse mythology ((books))after that point to frigg instead of Freya as a way to try to make the world forget about the former Valkyrie queen ( as he also banished her to Midgard or trapped her “essences “- that was wat I remember, mimir actually speaking about in the first one -GOW 2018 but I believe the ravens job is to make sure that if anything does happen to the all father, they can preserve him or resurrect him if I’m not mistaken also so that cool 😎
He might have combined jotnar and vanir spells to make a soul duplication spell after all the fact that thor is a half giant would mean he was with a giant and she probably showed him how to use giant magic because she was either in love with him or scared of what he could do if she refused
I’ve been thinking about Hugin surviving a lot. It makes so little sense unless it has some importance. And yet, I can’t think of a logical reasoning. I think your theory is the closest I’ve seen to one that has a solid foundation. But… as you said, could be overthinking everything. I mean, look at all us thinking time travel would play a lot more of a part.
thats true, at this point I dont really think SMS has written in stone plan. The raven being left alive COULD be Odin in disguise IF they wanted too lol
Let me guess odin made sure thor had no chest protection, to stab him one day. Order 66, odin knew he was going to fight them at some point, he was prepared the whole game. He ate at the table, while thy were planning 😅
2:02 we can see than when Atreus kills one of Odin's raven a marble begins to fall out,maybe this marble would be holding Odin's duplicate soul or part of soul
Great expansion of the theory but if you look closely when Atreus whispers oden’s soul away all 4 parts of his souls got into the ball so it wouldn’t make sense that the ravens had parts of his souls…and if they are duplicate of himself why didn’t he just use them I think 3 oden’s would’ve been extremely hard to kill and he can deviate attention and probably would’ve won, by capturing Atreus and forcing Kratos to surrender.
I like your theory of Odin still being alive however Mimir does explain how Odin was in two places at once. For one he was never fake Tyr and Odin at the same time. Tyr would walk up later in every scene. Two Odin and fake Tyr always isolated themselves, either "all-father is in his study" or Tyr was in the broom closet. Lastly, Mimir stated, while sledding around, Odin used their sympathy as a weakness to leave Tyr alone. Great Videos by the way!
This makes sense. I've always wondered how Odin was able to be at Sindri's house while also being in Asgard. It's doesn't really make sense that he just hops between realms at such a perfect time. I really hope that he's alive. He was such a perfect villian,and i would be happy if he returned in a potential sequel.
MAN Thank you for saving me from missing my favorite gods, Thor and Odin. I love them so much that I regrated watching their endings, But now I believe that they are alive.
I've been getting some comments saying that I've stolen this theory from another God of War UA-camr. I address this and explain things in this follow-up video:
ua-cam.com/video/grDRlL-deVU/v-deo.html
In my opinion I think he was releasing his ravens with a part of his soul in them, to make sure he could return, so I agree with u in this video
this could also explain why Atreus couldn't talk/understand Odin's Ravens like he could other animals. Because they don't have animal souls, they have parts of Odin's
I mean, they have no thoughts while bound to Odin. So I don't think they could feel either way. They were in a state of life and death
Cooking with kratos had the same theory 2 weeks ago
@@Wolf-hw1rg please don’t bring that dude here some of his videos are really stupid
I think they had there own souls and Justin wernt normal ravens it’s much more plausible
Sounds like you didn't do any of the Niflheim quests
I liked the part where you point out the “nooo” Odin says when one of his ravens got killed. But he didnt hesitate to kill thor and disregard Baldur’s death “his mind was gone”. Good vid
@@chicomac8450 you clearly didnt watch the video
@@javierkofler498 yo grandma
Kratos pointed out that Odin had lifetimes preparing for Ragnarok. It would make sense that he evaluated every single possibility, every possible outcome, even the most unlikely or unpleasant ones. So it would be plausible that he would create more than one safeguard in case he actually dies.
Yeah he's norse god's batman. Always has a plan
@@KaptainKuba Yo Kuba, you ever thought about how badass it would've been if they added Sleipnir? HUGE missed opportunity in my opinion. Imagine if in the boss battle with Odin we had to fight him on his horse, kinda like the Barbarian King in GoW 2. A big ass 8 legged horse that's infused with bifrost, and once we finally knock Odin off and kill Sleipnir, THEN we get to throw hands Odin. That'd actually be a cool theory video, what happened to Sleipnir? Cuz we see Odin riding him to battle in multiple murals throughout both games, but he never makes an appearance in game. Kinda weird.
Yeah he also saw the prophecy as tyr with atreas and Kratos in alfiehm so anything is possible
@@KaptainKuba something you did not mention is that there are multiple parts of the soul
Fenrir came back to life with only part of his soul and he is now in the body of garm
Same thing applies to others like the world serpent as his soul use to belong to a giant
Odin must’ve had some way to infuse his soul into these ravens and this is why he wanted them to escape as even if parts of souls have been shown to allow someone to live on in another body
Maybe he will try taking over a gods body…
He's like dr strange in infinity war
3:06 I’d like to note that the reason Odin threw the Raven at Freya was to have one of her hands occupied so she could let go of the noose.
If you took time to notice, Odin catches his breath right after he throws the raven, and his hands are in a position as if he was holding something away from his neck.
The reason, I believe, is that Freya can physically control how tight the noose is, that is why she restrains Odin by stretching the rope so that the noose became tighter around his neck, choking Odin more.
I actually think this is very realistic. Especially with atreus knowing how to transfer souls, maybe Odin found a way to take it a step further.
69th like 🗿🤝
That odin knew how to use giant magic better than the giants to the point if duplicating a soul?
@Synderth MC that doesn't directly indicate he knows how to use it "better". Although in Odins case I'd say potentially, yes. He knew multiple types of magic and could've combined them. Not to mention his relentless drive for answers of the unknown, and pushing boundaries. A trait the giants did not possess in the slightest. The giants seemed pretty peaceful and uninterested in immortality. Odin is evil, but that doesn't make him less capable of using magics in any way as you saw he ended up being more efficient in vanir magic than Freya even. Confirmed by Mimir. I'm not saying the giants couldn't do it either btw just wouldn't, for reasons of corruption. Sorta like seior magic. Whereas Odin wouldn't worry about those consequences in the least. Odin also had experience with seior magic too which is confirmed by the green ravens/Raven keeper tasks. Plot twist Odin is really just a magician posing as a God lmao!
@@andyhuber5339 very well explained. I can see it happening
Yeah, it would be very Odin for him to do so. But we just don't know it yet
Cool theory, i know GoW strays and takes alot of liberties with the source material but in the Norse myth, Hugin and Munin are an extension of Odin himself, Also Hugnin means thoughts while Munin means memory. Instead of a duplicate, Odin could have split his mind into 2, with his memories stored in Munin while his thoughts stored in Hugnin. It would be cool to have an amnesia but smart Odin comeback, he still has the thirst for knowledge but none of the memory of who he was and Atreus next arc is trying to redeem him and make him be better. It kinda ties with the theme of can a monsters become good person.
Dude this is a seriously cool take
Andvari the gigachad simply puts his soul into a ring and prevent death, sort of.
Muninn got his neck snapped by Freya in Asgard, that means Odin has no memory. Only thoughts of eating corpses and bugs as a bird😂
@@ArmoredG no, his thoughts of what he wants to do and basically his overall mindset
@@Lord_Ivoundy_Creood whatever. odin is so fked up tho. No more aesir, nothing is on his side and now he's just a bird having no way to restore his body because it probably vaporized by surtr's flaming sword
I 100% buy this theory. Odin whispering into atreus mind as he travels across realms to find the giants would make for an amazing story along with how he gets a trickster moniker.
Perhaps it's Kratos goal to travel across realms to undo the wreckage caused by Odin through his son.
Even more info that could support this, in Norse myths Huggin and Munnin are part of Odin. Huggin is Odins thought and Munnin his memory. So they may have altered it slightly in the game to be odin himself
Smart and nice catch!
Puts the one sided conversation you can listen in on Odin having with Huggin in a different perspective. Mans literally having an argument with himself and telling himself to learn how to take yes for an answer.
So weird that I just finished my second playthrough of game on no mercy and I was thinking that when atreus said: Huginn made it out. I told myself that maybe part of Odin's soul is in Huggin's body and ten minutes later, there was the notification!
Yeah, almost like what Lord Voldemort did
Cooking with kratos made a video about this a month ago. Everyone keeps taking his videos and putting there own spin on them
To be honest I thought he died to easy too, so this actually makes sense
yea me too and Kratos also said that this feels too easy
Maybe this is why there was only 2 games in the Norse pantheon
Maybe they will come back in another way in the next up coming games
These up coming games can give us a lot of info on Athena as well as we still don’t really have an idea of what’s going on with her except theories
If Athena really was manipulating Odin like some theories say him coming back just gives Athena an opportunity to make him a pawn again
@@TrippieMint is there proof that there's only 2 norse pantheon games? I feel like there will be 3
@@king3860 yes it’s stated by the devs that ragnorak is the last game in the Norse panethon
Wether that means we will be following Atreus and his journey to other pantheons to find giants or kratos going to another pantheon or even going back to Greece is a mystery
@@TrippieMint wow ok. I'm surprised because it feels like there's still so much more that they could still include, and still things that could be touched on. If they do give Atreus his own spin on things then It'll make sense, but if they just basically leave it all behind for another pantheon then it'll kind of feel like wasted potential
That is exactly what I thought after finishing the game for the first time. Why else would they specifically point out that Huginn is still alive
My thought is that Huginn is not a part of Odin. Could Huginn be a future ally or helpful friend? If the ravens' minds were erased, and they were experimented on, and Odin made them do his bidding, could the Raven's have become awakened somehow? Muninn remained loyal to the Allfather but Huginn developed a dislike towards him and wasn't completely onboard with what Odin was making him do. Now that Odin is dead, he no longer has a magical control over Huginn who is now free.
The green ravens were all grateful to be realised from Odin, maybe he’s the same.
Honestly think people just look too deep, but I suppose any potential dlc will shed light on the subject.
I’m going to now see the Odin Bossfight as a crazed desperate mad man, trying to form any plan to escape his inevitable death.
Your theory is good. And with Odin basically knowing all Atreus, Kratos and Freyas plans from masquerading around as Tyr, I'm sure he had a fail safe plan for his eventual demise. And Huginn would be the perfect vessel to house Odin's soul. Side note: Isn't it amazing when you finally run into the real Tyr and find out Odin's version was 90% accurate? 😂😂Odin was like, "Screw this, I don't have time to learn Tai Chi."
If u think this is good u should see the one from cooking withkratos
especially after seeing groa's prophecy
@@glitchofwarOdin is Mimir theory lmfaoo😂 If he is disguised as mimir he literally called himself the All F**ker
@@glitchofwarOdin lives through Huginn makes sense but as Mimir nah. Aint no way he be shootin bifrost out of his eyes
@@glitchofwar to each their own
Loki should’ve used a shockwave arrow on that bird instead of a sigil arrow. If Odin returns I think we’re going to see a more, barbaric version of him because everyone knows his tricks now.
Not if it's in the realm of another pantheon. His only concern would be Loki but if he plays "helpful companion" and manipulates other people in Loki's absence he might be able to spread his influence in the shadows with Loki none the wiser
A dude cooking with kratos has a video with even more proof showing Odin's still alive.
I’m not an expert in Norse mythology at all but I am from Sweden so I learned a bit of basics in pre-school. If I remember correctly his ravens were kind of like extensions of himself. I also know for a fact that ravens signified Odins presence so from a mythological view I could support this theory!
Weren't Huginn & Muninn Thought & Memory. 🤔
Do you think maybe similar to Ratatoskr, the way he is able to split and project his personalities (anger, coward, etc) and completely be separate from them yet it's still actually extensions of Ratatoskr himself. The way he did it, Odin may have done the same thing with those 2 birds specifically, they are pieces of him and therefore if his human body dies then he's got 2 left similar to what you've said in your video.
Nice theory Kuba. Keep it up!
I thought the same thing. Especially when comparing the way Odin argues with Huginn and Ratatoskr with his spectral aspects.
I don't think they'll bring back Odin, but I love the idea of Huginn accompanying Atreus on his journey.
I love the idea of more Odin in the future so we can hopefully get more sadistic him
they have confirmed that the norse gods are not going to be in any future games
@houseofaction I'd say that's more being said as they won't be the ones that are the antagonists. I think that whatever the final game is will see many past characters return or reappear. In Norse mythology, Baldur returns from the dead once Ragnarok is over and Fimbulwinter finally ends and gives way to Spring. I've been trying to think of where the series can go from here. It was said in an interview after GoW 2018 dropped that 5 more games were planned and mapped out. So that means at least two more mythologies will be explored if they stick to two games per mythology, although I feel like a return to Greece is in the cards, which means that's either its own game or part of a game where Kratos essentially returns to each land he's been to. I don't think the prophecy of him being worshipped as a just God is about him in any one particular land. I think it will be in all the lands that he steps foot in. So in theory, the next 3 games could each take place in their own land with the final game of this saga (perhaps the series?) taking place in each land Kratos has been in and affected, Greece included.
Kratos would damn blind both of Odin's eyes if he shows up again. Or brutally murder Huginn like he did to Birdlike enemies.
@@SpaghettiYOLOKingTTVI think the next game will be a kind of mixture between the Norse pantheon and the next one that the game is going to get into. There's still a lot of stuff to tie up in the Norse saga and possibilities to come from it. I hope we get to bring Thor back as an ally by traveling to the lake of souls and collecting his soul parts back. They just have to make sure to get his direction back out of anything that way he won't end up like Brok, not getting an afterlife.
I love Odin’s portrayal in Ragnarok but the way he’s described in 2018 makes Zeus look like saint, and I was expecting a fight to where even Kratos can’t hold back too much
When Odin saw what will happen to Asgard and his death, he believed what he saw 100%, and he is not stupid to think that fighting will save himself from Ragnarok. he know that he will die so the video make sense.
The minute you showed the ravens I thought Horcrux. I was also confused about how no one would discover Tyr was missing in his broom cupboard. Great video!
I really like your theory! Also, in the beginning of 2nd phase of odin boss fight, right before the choir again begins you can hear 2 separate sets of very fast drum beats, which sound like scared birds trapped in a cage trying to flee for their lives, but being held back: Huggin and Munnin. You can also later hear violins, like claws trying to scratch away.
But after odin releases his ravens and Munnin dies and Huggin is shot (but lives), the theme suddenly shifts to a forte variation of odin's main theme only, no wings or claw scratches. Like odin is trying to say "HEY LOOK AT ME, THE DISTRACTION! NOTHING OF IMPORTANCE BEHIND YOU! You came for me didn't you? Come at me!" He did it. He got our atention. Huggin escaped.
Its not his theory… the theory is stolen from cookingwithkratos. If you look at the release dates of the vid, you’ll see Kuba has stolen the theory so he can profit more 💀. He disnt even credit him…
@@GowSpeedrunsAndMemes Kuba in this vid explains HOW odin could have survived and the idea of this being a contingency plan, like back-up copies of him/parts of his soul and how Odin is alive within Huggin. While both share the idea of Odin surviving by using his ravens, CwK's vid leans into why Odin is alive as Mimir by disguising himself with his ravens. There is some difference. Plus, lots of detail everywhere hence why different 2 people can come up with a similar theory.
Edit: Just to be clear I do not support copying other creators, and I think it would be good if Kuba gave some credit to him if he a accidentally or intentionally copied him. Although I would like to say that, again, there are many people in the comments, including myself that also finished the game with similar theories.
👉❗So yeah, idk what happened, but I think people should check him out and judge for themselves.
@@GowSpeedrunsAndMemesookingwithkratos doesnt deserve respect for one reason. mf speaks as if it is a fact like he works on the game and leaks what santa monica would do to the next game instead of speaking it like a Theory. The funniest bs he said is Odin being Atreus' real Father🤣
@@GowSpeedrunsAndMemesAnyway speaking of "stolen theory" its literally common for video games community having similar theories.
I was really confused when everyone was talking about Odin coming back cause I forgot about that part with Sindri smashing the marble after he gets his soul whispered into it. I was seeing these video titles and thinking "Odin will somehow manipulate someone into letting him out and that won't surprise me he is a master manipulator"
I must say. I love this theory. I think it is your most grounded and likely one yet. Not to mention it's super interesting. Maybe in the future you'll make your own game with amazing story twists like these.
Thank you! I gotta say I dont think this is my best lol but Im really glad you liked it
This was taken from @cookingkratos @@kookingwitkratos
@@ragnarok9658 I don't think so really.. they are similar but substantially different... Cooking, concluded that Mimir is Odin in disguise but Kuba focuses more on the details about the ravens surviving as Odin's horcuxes
I think the ravens would be more like split parts of Odin’s soul than duplicates. Plus it’s already been established with Brok that a person can live without parts of their soul. Would be fun to see Odin back in blue 😂😂
Kratos accuracy with spear to mask is so amazing
the odin boss fight isn't bad in fact it's very engaging
that qte needed a bit more oomph like hrist and mist
it needed to be more dramatic
Cooking with Kratos also made a video on this theory, I was doubting a bit at this theory, but now that you made a video about it, I am convinced.
🤦♂️
@@finger3306 Don’t care+Didn’t ask
@@Poloposi you seem to care considering you wrote 2 comments lol this theory sucks ass and makes 0 sense
@@finger3306 overused reply, just like ur mom
@@finger3306 🤦♂️🤦♂️
An interesting theory that could warrant Odin's return. I am a bit skeptical about it because we see all four parts of Odin's soul imprisoned in giant's marble, before Sindri smashes the marble and the soul inside. Who knows what will happen.
it all depends on Santa Monica. They could retcon it and say that smashing a marble with a soul doesnt necessarily destroy it but does something else, they can make anything up lol
That's exactly what I was thinking about. I guess to defend his theory I'll say maybe odin convinced other aesir gods to give him parts of their soul. Heimdall would definitely agree to sharing 1/4 of his souls with odin.
The way you described the attitude of Odin towards his sons and how he would use people for what he wanted makes it seem like Odin is like Palpatine.
One thing I'll say about this theory is that many of the small details that seem insignificant that you might not even notice in the game ended up being very intentional on the creator's part either for the sake of establishing/reinforcing themes or for story elements.
They can go with two things with keeping the Raven alive, either make Atreus learn how to use that Raven to learn new magic tricks or like you said bring back Odin.
I also remember Odin having a "meeting" with his ravens when we enter his study for the first time.
The ravens didn't seem happy with him for whatever reason.
I don't think it will be Odin returning, but there does seem to be one last desperate play from Odin that could cause trouble down the line.
We'll see.
Agreed so it would be kinda weird to be arguing with himself. I think it’s no coincidence that the mythology would use ravens as they were used to send messages in ancient times. So if you apply that to how it’s used in the game, the ravens were his agents and acted like an extension of Odin’s perception rather than a copy of himself.
Dude you've got something with this one! What a great detail that probably everyone missed!
Great explanation!! I fully support this theory. I thought he was way too easy to get rid of, and kind of doubted he’d be destroyed so easily. Let’s see how well this ages!
What I hope is that Hugin and Munin together would be able to recreate Odin. But with one of them dead something will be missing.
Don’t have any more precise thoughts, I just want Ragnarök to have been big enough a loss so he have to work to come back.
I think its a great theory, i think Odin is a perfect villian to bring back and would love to see more of him. Ragnarok had a good ending but I feel there is still a lot to learn about this Odin or possibly a slightly different Odin that comes from hugnin. Also if the next game is Egyptian mythology, having a greek god, with norse gods like odin and loki, interacting with Egyptian gods is just an awesome thought in of itself
1:36 Goffy ahh Odin let that mask go 😂 AUUUGGHHH
Goffy? This goofy ahh comment💀💀💀💀💀💀
f you also remember, it’s mentioned that Odin had already found a way to subvert Ragnarok and that he wasn’t worried about it anymore. What if this was because He knew that even if he was defeated, he would still live on through one of his duplicates
Haha! I kid you not-but I wondered why Odin released his ravens like that and I thought at least one of them got away! 😅
And then when I heard and saw Hugin-I was like duuuuude!!!! 😮😮😮
I think you’re on to something, that’s for sure!
If Odin wanted the ravens to escape why did the ravens fly straight towards Atreus and Freya instead of high into the air?
This makes so much sense. Regardless, it would be interesting if Odin somehow did return based on the Horcrux theory of yours. Plus, Odin is the type to always be prepared
The fact one of his ravens survived is very intresting, i think Huginn will definately have a role in the next game
the norse era is over
Norse era is over asshole next will be Egyptian or some other mythology
Mmm man I sense cooking with kratos about the ravens
When i was playing through i had a Theory similar to this, that Odin doesn’t just use them for traversal/spying, but he himself is a shapeshifter of sorts. Or atleast only can turn into his ravens, I mean they are literally connected to him on another level beyond just pets. So maybe he copied himself like a hive mind and he can use them as a place holder to pop a different Odin out when needed all the while giving orders to Atreus. or maybe it’s just a higher plane of consciousness type of thing and his body’s just a shell.
If you look at that scene you notice Atreus arrow only barely hits Huginn. Not only that but when you do the eyes of Odin quests you realize that the Ravens were under his control. Huginn could be alive and escaped simply because Odin died and his control over him was no longer there. Although maybe not because you still have to kill the other ravens for them to no longer be under that control.
If Odin is dead the why do Huggins eyes glow blue?
Sounds like Voldemort and his Horcruxes
Transferring souls seems to be more giant/Dwarven magic. And we see odins soul get whispered into the marble, and get smashed with a hammer. He's just gone.
But when Atreus whispered Odin’s soul out, all 4 parts came out, and went into the orb that Sindri destroyed
that would explain everything!! It would even be linked to the conceptions of avatars, reinterpretations and other mythological conceptions of divine existence! Also alluding and referring to the fact that Odin is one-eyed included in soul. Also the return of the undead and unseen Germanic/Norse pantheons!
Man that sounds so cool! I am 100% sure that you are correct with that theory, because Odin deserves a bigger ark for the build up he got in the first game. Also it just hit me that the whole Brock's part soul was missing and he was still alive was to explain this very thing with Odin surviving. I wondered what was the whole purpose of Brock's story of him losing part of his soul, but this could very well be the answer.
Odin being alive is the most "Odin" thing to do lol. I bet he transferred his soul before dying. The whole game is about defying prophecy. If Kratos and Atreus can do it, who's to say Odin can't, he is the All-father after all.
If Huginn is indeed a copy of Odin, I wonder what mythological aliases he might take on in other pantheons?
Given what we learn about Odin in GoW4 and Ragnarok, I've largely had that feeling that it was far too easy to take down Odin, in a sense. (Going on from here, I'm disregarding Santa Monica wanting to have only 2 games in the Norse Saga.) Much like what Kratos has said in Ragnarok, Odin has had literal lifetimes to prepare. So, much like a number of people who wouldn't want to die, it wouldn't be surprising if it had crossed Odin's mind, to create a fail safe, for the possibility that if the main body that we see in Ragnarok, wasn't the real, actual, Odin. If Odin can pose as Tyr, to the point where Freya doesn't think twice about the doppelganger, who is to say, that Odin didn't set up someone else to be killed in his place to act as his double. It had bugged me that Atreus sees that Huginn makes it out, but doesn't question in the slightest about the possibility of Odin having another trick up his sleeve. (ie possibly having Huginn be one of his tickets at staying alive.) This would be a great way for Odin to return, since literally nobody would have thought twice about this, since everybody believes him to be dead. Plus, if Odin can have it to where the Einherjar can come back after being beaten in battle, who's to say that it took it a few steps higher to ensure he can come back himself. Another thing that, so far, nobody would think that he would do.
Dawg tell me why at 2:50 as soon as Odin said “I’ve always loved you” I got an ad for a wedding ring 😭
I hope we get more of God of war in future and this theory is going amazing keep up the good work - from saul
We 100% will get more of god of war, its the biggest ps exclusive after all
@@thegamingking1972 i just hope we get it soon and don't have a long gap in between
@@GOWRAGNAROK69 100% will be long waits for new games
Better call Kratos 🗿
@@GOWRAGNAROK69My guess is not before 2025, or maybe SM Studio hire another smaller team to make some GoW spin off to fill gap between Ragnarok and next pantheon/realm of Gods?! 🤔
The whole Atreus bringing the raven around would I guess be the depiction of him helping Odin in the painting
4:44 I was thinking the exact same thing! However I still don't get why the Ravens didn't just fly up, but rather flew into their enemies' hands.
hope this is true, it would show how big brain odin is
Whilst this is a cool theory. I for one still like to believe in a final death of Odin. It's good to actually close a chapter of a story and not constantly reusing old villains draw it out for longer. Kratos and Loki got their closure at the end and it was well deserved. If they do something in the future, then it should be a different era, culture and a different villain
Just from looking at the thumbnail i already know you got this video theory from @Cookingwithkratos
I swear i just tyoed this
They always do. At least give credit.
Imagine if they do a Arkham knight and have odin be Athena of sorts, a spiritual presence not a physical one
Isn't in the end. While Atreus is walking after ragnarok. He walks pas Huginn and says he's happy to see that he made it out.
It is explained he left on of the birds at sindis House and is told when he is needed so he can get back without been seen and when odin died it probably broken the conection between them so it's finally a free bird again
Or maybe he is now in the same place as athena and they will join forces to take down them both in a future game
2:18 because the ravens are what he uses to teleport people across the realms. Mimir expressly says this, that the ravens are his mode of transportation throughout the realms. Also, it isn't these two ravens that he uses to spy, he has emerald ravens that do that job. The reason why we see him teleport without the ravens present is because they are present, just in the arms of Odin. He was trying to escape the attack. Twice. The reason why they were trying to fly away was to escape. That's why atreus and Freya targeted them, because they both knew what he was trying to do
@whats-app-2492 huh?
Absolutely on point!!! I thought the same when seeing Huginn after Ragnarök too. Love your Chanel :)
This theory is actually really valid. Because as you said “why keep Huginn alive?” To add on to that why show a that he’s alive to begin with? Also it could just be a gameplay mechanic but in Gow3 Zeus was able to clone himself and they weren’t just illusions because they could physically harm Kratos. So we know it is possible to clone yourself in the God of War universe.
He's still alive through the ravens 👍 👌🏼 nice
sindri would never have bothered tyr he actively avoided contact a lot of the time. i'd fully believe that sindri out of either respect or fear of conversation would just outright avoid knocking
The kratos spear throw makes sense since he's a spartan
This is interesting, and I honestly go back to the raven keep her in the eye of Oden objective where u kill the ravens - that would be an interesting if they make a patch, where you would have to face the final “known” the remenants of ODin ( as like another mini boss after GNA ) - at nifelim tree would be sick - possibly when they install- new game plus but to go back to the line where he said, “can’t be in the two places at once frigg” I thought it was because when they separated or whatever happened, he changed all the times they spoke of her ( in norse mythology ((books))after that point to frigg instead of Freya as a way to try to make the world forget about the former Valkyrie queen ( as he also banished her to Midgard or trapped her “essences “- that was wat I remember, mimir actually speaking about in the first one -GOW 2018 but I believe the ravens job is to make sure that if anything does happen to the all father, they can preserve him or resurrect him if I’m not mistaken also so that cool 😎
Ding ding ding
Your a Winner, this is a spot on
Nail on head theory!
This dude deserve being in santa Monica team
Bro your all KAP! name fits u pretty well. U straight up stole *cooking with kratos* theory.
THANK YOU!
8:18 Didn't Know i had PTSD, Thanks.
He might have combined jotnar and vanir spells to make a soul duplication spell after all the fact that thor is a half giant would mean he was with a giant and she probably showed him how to use giant magic because she was either in love with him or scared of what he could do if she refused
Bro you straight up stole @Cookingkratos theory 😆 wow.
I think Kaptian Kuba just f**ked the Santa Monica’s entire plan!!
- Awesome Theory Kaptian 🫡
Hugin and Munin are "mind" and "thought" they are a part of him, and Hugin survived .....
I think you're right on this one!
I’ve been thinking about Hugin surviving a lot. It makes so little sense unless it has some importance. And yet, I can’t think of a logical reasoning. I think your theory is the closest I’ve seen to one that has a solid foundation. But… as you said, could be overthinking everything. I mean, look at all us thinking time travel would play a lot more of a part.
thats true, at this point I dont really think SMS has written in stone plan. The raven being left alive COULD be Odin in disguise IF they wanted too lol
Great job bro...loved it
Yes.... yes he is, you'll see him in the path up ahead but he'll have a different voice, different wishes, different thinking and a different body
8:18 dude the sudden creepy music made me jump lol also notice huginn looking at atreus with left eye.
If you look at ,Odin on what moon is supposed to be, you can see that he’s gone all throughout when they find Tyr
Let me guess odin made sure thor had no chest protection, to stab him one day. Order 66, odin knew he was going to fight them at some point, he was prepared the whole game. He ate at the table, while thy were planning 😅
Odin is like Voldemort too tired to carry on...
2:02 we can see than when Atreus kills one of Odin's raven a marble begins to fall out,maybe this marble would be holding Odin's duplicate soul or part of soul
I like this theory. Even the way he kills brok. Odin doesn’t use his spear like with Thor, but uses a small knife instead.
Great expansion of the theory but if you look closely when Atreus whispers oden’s soul away all 4 parts of his souls got into the ball so it wouldn’t make sense that the ravens had parts of his souls…and if they are duplicate of himself why didn’t he just use them I think 3 oden’s would’ve been extremely hard to kill and he can deviate attention and probably would’ve won, by capturing Atreus and forcing Kratos to surrender.
I always thought that Huginn had a white eye (like Garm) at the end of the game and I thought those eyes were only like that in soulless creatures
That's an awesome theory, but didn't they already stated that- the Norse saga is over?
I like your theory of Odin still
being alive however Mimir does explain how Odin was in two places at once. For one he was never fake Tyr and Odin at the same time. Tyr would walk up later in every scene. Two Odin and fake Tyr always isolated themselves, either "all-father is in his study" or Tyr was in the broom closet. Lastly, Mimir stated, while sledding around, Odin used their sympathy as a weakness to leave Tyr alone. Great Videos by the way!
He stole thos from youtuber @@cookingwithkratos check out his channel for proof
This makes sense. I've always wondered how Odin was able to be at Sindri's house while also being in Asgard. It's doesn't really make sense that he just hops between realms at such a perfect time.
I really hope that he's alive. He was such a perfect villian,and i would be happy if he returned in a potential sequel.
Let’s go,
Odin the Bird
Is he .. da biggest bird
MAN Thank you for saving me from missing my favorite gods, Thor and Odin. I love them so much that I regrated watching their endings, But now I believe that they are alive.
Great theory man, I also love when you shout out your members in the end of the video
thanks man, and thank you for your support
@@KaptainKuba it’s no problem
No way you’re this good. It’s unreal
He took it from cooking with kratos lol