HK-32 Prototype in 7.62x39mm
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
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Among the large family of roller-delayed rifles produced by Heckler & Koch, one of the rarest and least known is the HK32. This was the select-fire shoulder rifle chambered in 7.62x39mm. These rifles appeared in H&K sales literature for a time, but were only made in very small numbers for one or two poor documented contracts. What we have here today is a very early prototype rifle in 7.62x39mm using a regular NATO caliber receiver with a magazine well block to fit a proprietary H&K magazine. The rifle retains many CETME features, including the muzzle brake, metal forehand with integral bipod, carry handle, stock design, and a unique 2-position rear notch sight.
Many thanks to the Royal Armouries for allowing me to film and disassemble this very rare rifle! The NFC collection there - perhaps the best military small arms collection in Western Europe - is available by appointment to researchers:
royalarmouries...
You can browse the various Armouries collections online here:
royalarmouries...
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
PO Box 87647
Tucson, AZ 85754
The fact the didn't call this the HK-47 is a damn travesty.
Statement: This comment is underrated. Primitive meatbags.
Or the heckler and kalashnikov 32
Agreed
No, it's the HK32, just as god and Vorgrimler intended.
I get that reference. good battle droid too
How rare is this gun you may ask? Ian is wearing gloves...
I think the gun is just very grimy, look at how gray the gloves get.
Zach cash umm that a reproduction model. Not quite the same collectiveness as this gun, kinda like having a copy of the declaration of independence as opposed to touching the real thing or having fake hundred dollars bills to a real hundred dollars bill. Still it is cool to see a reproduction being made in the first place.
He's wearing the gloves due to all the preservative that's on the gun.
It's dependent on what the owner prefers. He's handled VERY pricey pieces without gloves. It seems that museums usually want him to wear gloves.
He actually covered this in one of his q&a videos some time ago, the gloves are required for museum pieces or the museum can lose their license. Unsure if its the same in the UK but its a thing here in the US.
Edit: also, I'm sure youre tired of people still commenting in this very dead post but if someone asks, theres the answer lol
They have curved magazines. Curved. Magazines.
I know why, that was a cheesy skyrim reference.
Those warriors from Heckler Koch. Big. Curved. Magazines.
I hate them. Only looks good in AK style rifles.
There we have it, someone had to do the reference to that. I've been thinking long time to comment that myself but it had seem inappropiate.. Guess I was wrong.
Wrong vidya game, meatbag.
It definitely wouldn't look out of place in post-war Eastern Germany.
Jan Tschierschky their SF used western weapons - mostly HK - as well. There’s a documentary about it in german language on YT
@@jantschierschky3461 HAA! I found it. You're German, so you'll understand alles. They have a quick mention of weapons and show some west german stuff:
ua-cam.com/video/UtCcnj9V2Ls/v-deo.html
@@jantschierschky3461 I am aware of that. It's just a hypothetical what-if remark; if East Germany decided use a 7.62x39mm HK weapons platform, this would look perfect.
All that aside, thank you for your services in the armed forces.
@@jantschierschky3461 Not surprised to hear that...Most love to hate german soldiers. It disgusts me that this is the case as you don't deserve it.
@@jantschierschky3461 HK hat auch, ohne Anmeldung, einige Waffensysteme in die DDR verkauft, über drittländer um zu verschleiern.
A Colonel of the SEDENA in Mexico, when in 1998 I was a first class soldier, in a lunch he mentioned that indeed a contract was requested to the H & K company in 1986 for the first purchase of 600 rifles, unfortunately and bureaucratic issues, it was not achieved until May 1993, in which it was for first use in the military police and paratroop rifle brigades ... later for a second purchase of 1000 rifles of which only 860 rifles were purchased, thanks again to the blessed bureaucracy; 10 rifles only for trials with designation hk232 as a light machine gun plus 4 hk32SG1 rifles but with another designation called hk32 / telescopico, unfortunately the rifles for light machine gun, were not accepted but are still in the SEDENA factory the other rifles hk32 / telescopico they are in hands for their study in campo 1 of the SEDENA ...
Gracias for that information, good sir.
There is a semi-auto version of this called the PTR-32 that you can buy in the US. It has the pinholes in the stock and trigger group in the style of the G3.
Yup, I own one. Awesome gun.
You can also turn it into a cetme-c clone pretty easily with a parts kit
You can tell its a real HK due to its use of a proprietary 7.62x39 magazine made out of gold.
Ha! Gold is cheaper and much easier to get.
@@SnarkyPosters name checks out
I always figured that using standard AK mags was smart for two related reasons. First, availability of AK magazines all over the world. Second, the ability of your operator to pick up AK mags on the battlefield and use them if needed. I believe that US Special Forces had a few AR platforms chambered in 7.62 x 39 that could do that.
There is also the benefit that all of the engineering on designing the AK Magazine has already been done.
Of course, this is all hindsight. At the time, HK was working with what was going on around them, in their own time.
On the CETME:
T - Tiro a tiro (literally shot by shot)
S - Seguro (safe)
R - Ráfaga (burst)
Excuse me for being tedious, if 10 is the month wouldn't it be october instead of september '57?
Davide Galeotti Glad somebody else pointed this out. It would be October and not September.
@@fenrisulfur666 ....well....that will make figuring out my birthday interesting
Great, I'm a month younger
@@davidparsons452 now fair ... No I'mma month older lol
@room-ten-oh-nine ! Is that for real or is everyone in the comments ignorant like I am?
2:10 Face made by sling slot is adorkable
: 0
Looks like Homer Simpson
It helps out people who have PTSD
Damnit! I also wrote a comment about this before i saw yours, but yours is funnier :)))
10:10 - *LEWD*
So this sort of exists today in the form of the PTR-32. A G3 in 7.62×39mm that takes AK mags. It seems cool to me, because it provides a platform for the roller-delayed blowback system using an intermediate caliber.
@@LIONTAMER3D Zenith and PTR both do other calibers and are cheaper
@@nickkennedy9034 I do wish PTR could make a version of the HK-33 in 5.56mm, or a 5.56 version that takes AR mags.
@@LUR1FAX Zenith used to make HK 93 in 5.56 I have one uses their mags as well 93 mags
I agree. That does hit a lot of the right buttons. I'm thinking the same idea
@@LUR1FAX It's called the PTR 63.
Suddenly the PTR 32 makes a lot more sense
@762x35mm most century rifles were subcontracted so it really depended if you had a good gunsmith or just Billy Bob and his friend in a garage.
@762x35mm I always wanted one because I love my PTR91 and owning an HK that shoots AK ammo amuses me. But this history lesson just adds fuel to that need. I also want to see the differences between them and the actual HK rifle.
@762x35mm Well, we all know those two magical letters on the receiver do. They make you into the ultimate tacticalized operator who can't ever be wrong, especially on the Internet where it matters!
I have a PTR32. It's very accurate and handles great. Mine's a bit picky when it comes to magazines though.
Yep - and here I thought PTR had taken some kind of shortcut in using the longer 7.62 NATO magazine well - never realized that HK prototyped it that way.
The royal armories museum in Leeds is magnificent. And free too! I went last month and would have probably been awestruck had I run into Ian.
Some people: AK is overbuilt, the receiver is unnecessarily oversized, it doesn't have to be this large.
HK: Hold my beer!
Not to mention, there's a fair number of big people with big hands and/or body. Some of us just have to go big, after all!
@@GuardianOfTheHeaven thats not what your wife said . ba dum cuuuussshh
Who the hell says an ak, the simplest chunk of made by a commie ever, is over built?
@@grahamlopez6202 Grzech did.
Some people:AK is overbuilt
HK:hold my Beer
PTR:Hold my crack pipe,(builds 10lb clone) i own a PTR 32 nice rifle but man is it heavy
Oh that’s why the PTR model is called the PTR-32!
The missing link between the STG and AK finally found and brought to us by the benevolent gun jesus!
Actually is just a CETME ordered for HK on 7,62x39 very very rare prototype but almost the same as a Cetme A or B.
Pretty damn special if you ask me!!
It's cool considering several manufacturers brought this back to life to an extent.
The trigger group from the G 3 looks like it is coming from a Swedish Ak 4 rifle, i.e. the Swedish made version of the G 3. This as it has the marknings "S", "P" and "A", which is "Säkrad", "Patronvis" and "Automateld" (Safe, Single round and Full auto respectively), rather than the German "S", "E" and "D". The rifle was made by Husqvarna Vapenfabrik and introduced into the Swedish Armed Forces in 1966.
There are German made S/P/A lowers, but they where made for Sweden.
S = Sicher (Save)
E = Einzelfeuer (Singlefire)
D = Dauerfeuer (Sustainfire)
literal translation
More like Sozialistische Einheitspartei Deutschlands
Safe not save ;)
@@Kingstone1981 ya, was thinking, that must have been a prototype to send to the GDR :-D
@@Kingstone1981 I'm amazed
@Zed Isdead ahhhh ok makes Sense now my bad continue lol
With it being a prototype.. and having the --70' on the bolt wedge.. I would bet that they built several bolt wedges at different angles and were testing them... So printing it's angle on the side made it easier to keep track of which one you were testing.
I wonder what would happen if the angle was wrong. If it was too shallow, would it fire at 5,000rpm and blow up, or would it just not work?
@@AshleyPomeroy It's not gonna effect the speed as much... But it would effect the force of the recoil and more importantly, the timing. If it's the wrong angle and tries to pull the empty cartridge out too early, the pressures inside will still be too high and it will break extractors or be tearing off the brass rims......
When this kind of thing happens in AR15's, you can add a heavier buffer, which will have more inertia and hold the bolt locked just long enough to allow the bullet to leave the barrel and let those high pressures drop in the champer, so the brass will eject much easier without breaking extractors, ect... (on these roller lock guns, changing that angle is really the only adjusment)
If the angle holds the bolt in place for too long, there won't be enough force to make the bolt go back far enough to eject properly or to strip another round out of the magazine, because these are still "blow back" actions..
On mp5, the angles are printed on the wedges in part because some angles are better for use with suppressors than others. Maybe they experimented with suppressors?
@@calholli You learn something every day!
PTR-32 is an interesting clone to this but takes AK magazines.
ye mum shouldn’t it be PTR92 if they’re keeping the convention?
@@509Gman Well, PTR thought otherwise.
@@509Gman 32 provides more specificity in barrel length
The tanzanian rifle exits I have a picture of a parade in the 1960s with a large number of those rifles clearly shown ,for a long time I wondered about them myself.
Any way you could could post a link? I would love to see that!! (Sorry, I know I’m asking a year later)
This actually makes a ton of sense, as Tanzania and Germany have a lot of history. A few years back, an American TV show, "The Amazing Race" was having people do a challenge race around the world. In Tanzania, the Newspapers shown on the program were all still in German and it was the Common Language there.
Something horrible has been done to that poor stock. I'm so glad gun Jesus is there to comfort it
The take down pin holes where pushed back because the buttplate is removeable and attach to those cylinders. You can change the lenghts of pull with different buttplates.
I've spent some time in Tanzania and while I was there I noticed an abundance of Chinese AK's but also quite a number of G3's and FAL's as well. Saw both full stocked and para stocked G3's which was neat.
In Kenya I saw a TON of Yugo AK's and also several G3's. A few police officers had MP5's and MP5k's which was cool to see.
@@ffarmchicken to be perfectly honest with you, I didn't get close enough to tell. They were mostly in the hands of police and as a white guy, you typically want to avoid the police, as they'll happily look for a way to separate you from your money.
i got an mp5 airsoft replica made by HK and its weird to see the simalaritys between the g3, this gun and the mp5
@@rileygerard3014 Not so weird if you know that the MP-5 is the same firing mechanism (roller-delayed blowback), scaled down for the 9mm Parabellum.
@@AndrewAMartin oh i know they are the same firing mechanism but i find it interesting how simaler hk kept the guns from that era
@@rileygerard3014 Gotcha... I guess they figured that they had a working design concept, so they could keep doing variations on the same theme until they ran out of ideas.
I love the HK Roller delayed series. Went out and used one of the stimmies to buy a PTR 91 and it is such a phenomenal rifle. Even bought some 5 round mags for hunting (in my state it is legal with a semiautomatic rifle as long as the mags used are 5 rounds. Doesn’t matter if they’re detachable. And .308 is a really good deer and elk cartridge)
Thanks for making this video Ian! I bought a PTR-32 a few months ago and it always throw people at the range for a loop. 'That's an HK-91/G3 ... wait what's that curved AK mag?'
I can only say great things about the roller-delayed system -- not one mis-fire in about 900 rounds so far (though I've used some coarse language at the bolt head when I always forget how to shimmy it back on after cleaning).
Looks pretty slick, another step between the STG to the G3. These HK rifles are some of the nicest looking guns, just love the coldwar era rifles.
Atleast then there was variation in design, now almost everyone just copies the ar15 platform ...
@@swedish992 I feel the same, I understand that self loading rifles are kind of the biggest thing for a good reason, but at least if they could put them in some interesting furniture. Like just copy the AR system if they must, but make them look more unique lol
@@drownsinkoolaid4203 And then everyone complains that they're more expensive than an AR and why would they bother buying it?
It's kinda circular at this point.
@@idontwanttoputmyname403 It's not like ARs are known for being cheap in the first place, and if you're on any budget why buy HK?
I get what you mean, certainly fair enough, but considering double barrel shotguns are usually far, far more expensive than a pump why do people still buy them?
Just an example off the dome, not saying I'd buy one lol, I'm broke enough as it is :D
@@drownsinkoolaid4203
AR's are known for being cheap now though (at least in my part of the US). Why spend 2500 on a SCAR-L when you can get a decent, bog-standard AR for like 500-700?
By my comment I really just wanted to say that people make new non-AR designs fairly often, but then they just get canned.
These designs being: The SCAR, the ACR, the MDR, the RDB, RFB, M10X, and so on.
It's been mentioned here already, but in case someone reads the comments for information, 'R' on the CETME stands for 'ráfaga' (Spanish for 'burst').
'D' is indeed for 'Dauerfeuer' on the German guns, although the literal translation is rather 'continuous/sustained fire'.
Aww, I live in Leeds. We were so close yet will never meet.
Wakefield here, really must get up to the Armouries some time.
@762x35mm Who's in gun hell?
The Varzoth, I think he gives a notice to Patreon members when he's going to be in the area.
York here. The armories museum is great.
Just wait out front... Lol
That stock looked rather shocked at being handled by Ian.
This is probably one of the most unique guns I’ve seen
You are my hero for taking the time to show us the locking piece on it
4:18 10/57 September???? Is my whole life a lie
What happened to October?
We live in an alternative reality, 2 more roman caesers' died and now we're on 14 month years.. about right for 2020..
My days are infinitely better having Forgotten Weapons, with my coffee. I can't thank you enough Ian.
I find this rifle very attractive! Thanks for bringin it to us Ian!
Gun Jesus, the 10th month is October...
must be the Imperial date system xD
..hush heretic...the Gun Jesus is never wrong...be quiet or the German Inquisition will pick you up...
Oct = 8 your daft new 12 month calendar won't fool me.
he's using commie calandar for some reason.
Ronin Sct70 joke‘s on you, i AM the German inquisition!
The Pin Retaining Holes and Sling Cutout have seen some shit maaan.
The most unicorn of all HK weaponry.
I'd say the G11 is, most of those where destroyed.
KCMercenary223 what about the 1995 OICW?
There are some special forces weapons painted tan with no serial numbers
Thanks for the locking wedge angle, gun jesus, time to attempt a build of this!
There are also cuts for the grenade launcher sights in the CETME B'sfront sight apparently!
Thank you for the clarification, regarding the "Swedish" trigger group..
Watching and listening to you has convinced me that the PTR-32 is a more economical purchase than the PTR-91 because of the cheaper ammunition and the interchangeability of the AK Mag's!
7:44 The stock looks like a surprised bearded dude's face, and then Ian goes, like, "boop" with his fingers
There's more weird shit happening at 10:07
The best looking of all the early CETME/H&K rifles, IMO.
Would have been cool if the went with this instead of 7.62 NATO
7.62 NATO is much more powerful than soviet 7.62. Only reason could be them being able to reuse captured Soviet ammo in case of World War 3, but USSR would just pull same shit as with Makarov 9mm and make slightly off sized bullet to make it unable to shoot their own ammo. Tho it does look more in line with MP5 in a way with curve mag.
So how many minutes would it take for regular infantry to lose that grenade sight?
The grenade sight looks like it would be a good bottle opener, so they would probably put it on a lanyard and hang it around their neck.
It would be lost about as quickly as it took Ian to say CETME 3 times!!!
@@dongblak7048 Lol, I was gonna say... first time they find a bottle to open it’s getting bent at the very least
Interesting that the mag well / receiver changed between the early version Ian is fondling and the later ones he showed.
His, like he said, is basically a G3 / CETME lower receiver with a spacing block in the mag well, while those later ones have dimensions closer to an HK 33.
Wonder when the change was made? Were all the 'series' HK 32s purpose built, or were any of them adapted from 7.62x51 guns?
Imagine my surprise when Ian offhandedly mentions my home country, if you do find a Tanzanian HK-32 I want to see that video.
Thank you , Ian .
Good video. I like this rifle because it's very similar to the CETME. I used the CETME C in 1989 in the army.
Couple of additional observations:
1. The CETME selector is on the right while the HK ones are on the left.
2. The CETME also has the grenade sight slots in the front sight ring - presumably you kept the grenade sight blade in your kit somewhere and DEFINITELY NEVER LOST IT
Speaking of the grenade sight, how does it actually work? If it makes the front sight taller then sighting over it from the rear sight would depress your firing line, not elevate it. Maybe you sight from the grenade sight to the top of the grenade and that gives you the requisite elevation?
That's a 7.62x39 unicorn right there, will be great to see it on a two gun match vs a CETME C or a G3A1.
Actually its just a 7,92x40 cetme ordered by HK with some mods on 7,62x39. Early Cetmes werent 7,62x51.
In: finer points of the HK rolling delay-blowback system
Out: the months of the year
I love these little translation things with weapons.
D = Dauerfeuer
Dauer = Sustained
Feuer = Fire
Dauerfeuer = Sustained Fire
Love how every country has different phrases for the same concept, but they are on basic language level non-interchangeable.
I'VE BEEN HOPING FOR THIS VIDEO ALL WEEK
The HK-32 Buttstock looks traumatized...
El HK se fabricó partiendo del CETME B, de ahí su enorme parecido.
Alemania compró el CETME B y compró los derechos de fabricación y exportación a España. Luego desarrollaron muy poco después su HK y el G-3.
I have a suggestion for you. The main bit I love of your videos are the history bits. The intro, and when you talk about the history in the outro. I actually sometimes just skip the middle part where you take the gun apart. If you had any long history stories to tell then I'd be interested in hearing such. Even if there was no gun featured to take apart.
Early Cetme and HK models already had metal "M-lok" handguards in the 50's and 60's!
It's such a pretty looking gun
With a derpy face (7:47)
That is one gorgeous rifle.
Damn, I got here quick today! Time to learn from Ian this morning!
I can never unsee Homer Simpson’s face in the stock
Hey Ian, trivial detail, but September is 9. Unless HK is using their space magic again to change October to 9 and September to 10. Great video!
I would love to see how this shoots. Especially in full auto compared to a G3.
September= the 10th month of the year 👍
Oh m lok handguard. Never know...wait
After the video some more reviewing, the fire control group of the CEMTE probably actually follows the same form as the German fire control group, safe, semi, and automatic. This means that the "T" probably stands for "terminar", meaning "to finish" or "to end". The "S" probably stands for "soltero" or "sólo", both meaning "single". Finally, the "R" then stands for either "repetir", meaning "to repeat", or "rápido", meaning "fast" or (obviously) "rapid".
S= Seguro, which means secure or locked,
T= Tiro, which is singular for shot,
R= Ráfaga, which means burst or literally gust.
s = safe, e = bullet d = all the bullets to translate to modern hk parlance
s = crossed out white bullet.
Thar's so cool! a early example of the HK32. Thank you lan.
The stock is both happy and concerned all at once...
Gun Jesus is a gold mine of gun knowledge...but apparently not months.
It's nice to see you safe after your sudden travel to South Africa xD
He recorded all of his SA footage months ago.
@@ST-zm3lm I think he was being facetious. :)
@@circleofsorrow4583 hmm, being facetious a disease? :P I guess you could say so, haha...
Sovrano, It's a mutation of the sarcasm virus.
@@Ethnarches, came for the gun, learned a new word :)))
10:44
That is not 1966 G3 trigger group. If Royal Armouries has it listed as that I would believe that's in error, because that's a Swedish AK4 trigger group. S for Säkrad (safe), P for Patronvis (single rounds) and A for Automatic
Honestly the hk 32 reminds me of the assault rifle from the newer wolfenstein games
12 people actually gave this video a thumbs down? This was really cool, keep the videos coming!
I love love love videos on HK roller lock rifles!!
Thank God for ptr making these
Only the 1st gen PTR32-KF was true to the HK32 design (albeit with a modified magwell to receive AK magazines).
The 2nd gen PTR32-KFR deviates from the original HK32 design and has a longer charging handle tube akin to a full size HK G3.
I have once heard of HK22(which is, as you guessed it, a belt-fed 7.62x39mm machine gun), but this? Definitely unheard of. But at the same time, I'm glad that H&K have also try to solve the same problem most countries would have otherwise, and that is the abundance of those ammunition.
If you have the chances on HK machine guns(especially the HK21 and HK23, but HK11 and HK13 is fine too) someday, do me and the HK gun enthusiasts a real favor; give them the well-deserved observations. I have always wanted to see their overall mechanics. HK69 and HK79 grenade launchers, too, if possible.
"....and production date is September, 10, month 10...."
Dam, that is where I have been going wrong. Wondered why I was a month late for everything. :)
PTR 32 new and improved!
This is beautiful
Wood grip, and Stock
I want a wood grip for my CETME now lol
man, i Love Ian's pronunciation of any spanish word.
PTR-32 braced Pistol with a 12inch barrel makes a hell of a truck gun. For those who care you can drop a FA binary in them as well.
A surprise to be sure but a welcome one
All delayed roller lovers:
*Heavy Breathing intensifies*
I can see that grenade sight go flying after a couple good salvos. Probably good it isn't used?
I'll hazard a guess that the rifle was born in October 1957 as a 7.62x51mm. HK then performed its reassignment surgery to 7.62x39mm once the Finns expressed their interest. It would be faster and easier to rework a surplus rifle than to invest in a new set of receiver stamping and folding dies.
Amazing the knowledge you have!
My question would be what's the sales pitch here what does this offer over an AK ? Is it lighter ? Is it more accurate ? Significantly more reliable ? More idiot proof? I certainly like the bipod on it and I think the sites are a little bit better . but it looks heavier and more clumsy to operate . I do prefer the HK location for the charging handle .
If we germans write 70° on something, it IS 70°. Not 70,0001° and not 69,9999°. No, it is 70° ;)
Wooden furniture adds so much class to weapons.
Always wondered what their number scheme was. Thanks!
The R on a CETME is probably for Ráfaga (burst), not Rápido (quick).
Nice,
Id love to see a VSS or a VKS on this channel.
Anyone else finally happy they've found the history on the c58 lol love this gun in warzone.
The takedown pin holes and the sling bar slot at 7:47 look like Homer Simpson
I would love to know how it shoots as a 7.62x39 rifle and how it compares to the AKM.
My PTR32 is more accurate than any of my AK's. Recoil is different because of the delayed roller lock system. Its a heavy rifle though, mine looks much like the one Ian is showing complete with wooden stock
That is a gorgeous rifle
I was going insane hearing Ian say CETME over and over when I had no idea what that was. I then looked in the comments for an answer, and proceeded to die a bit on the inside as it seemed everyone but me knew what it meant. I finally just Googled it. I will survive. Lol