One of the problem of data centres is the wastage of heat. Most of the time the design is poor and we use chillers to cool down the data centre, but capturing the hot air and pumping this out somewhere to heat something and pulling cooler air from the outside is far better. Most of the time outside air is cool enough to keep the servers below their maximum temperature without cooling. Takes careful design but it’s eminently doable.
I worked in a crematorium, wiring up a new heating boiler. I watched the process of bodies being cremated and observed the massive cooling systems and roof fans. It struck me that the heat should be put to better use. There's a housing estate nearby, many council stock. District heat them! Or at least heat the crematorium with the heat! The only barrier to this is that people would find it frightfully morbid to use this heat in this way. But most of the heat is produced by gas burners rather than by the burning bodies - indeed many bodies require extra flame towards the end to finish the burn.
MCS Certified - 24 October 2024: "An update on Solar PV Module fire classifications Late last year the MCS Solar Mounting Working Group became aware of a change to a European standard, that took effect in September 2023. This change meant that fire test laboratories were no longer in a position to issue a fire classification for solar PV modules. Some solar PV products require a fire classification for certification against The Solar Mounting Product Standard (MCS012). More importantly, where solar products form a roof covering (i.e. roof-integrated) a fire classification is required so that compliance with Building Regulations can be demonstrated (specifically Regulation B4: External fire spread). Any new products brought to market are currently unable to obtain a fire classification and therefore cannot be integrated into roofs in compliance with the Building Regulations. This also prevents them gaining MCS certification. Overview The fire classifications that can be issued for construction products are defined in BS EN 13501-5 and relate to test methods set out in CEN/TS 1187:2012. So, for example, a classification of Broof (t4) is based upon Test 4 of CEN/TS 1187:2012. Both BS EN 13501-5 and CEN/TS 1187 apply specifically to construction products, as defined in the Construction Products Regulations. Solar PV products are not listed as construction products in those regulations. This was not previously an issue because test laboratories were able to use their own expert opinion for extended application (EXAP), according to the principles set out in BS EN 15725, to extend the testing scope of CEN/TS 1187. However, BS EN 15725:2023, which took effect in September 2023 (because the previous version was withdrawn) removed expert opinion as a process that could be used for EXAP. Approved Document B currently details a transposition table (Table B2) between classifications according to BS EN 13501-5 and BS 476-3 so presents a possible solution, as the changes to BS EN 15725:2023 do not apply to BS 476-3 so in theory extended application of the test is still possible with expert opinion. However, it is the intention of the UK Government to remove this transposition table from Approved Document B so only classifications according to BS EN 13501-5 will be valid, closing off a potential interim solution. What has MCS done to assist? Despite this not being an issue originating from MCS, MCS has convened several meetings since this was brought to our attention with representatives from the Building Safety Regulator, the Northern Irish, Welsh and Scottish governments, fire test laboratories and BSI (specifically the Chair and Secretariat for FSH22-8 as the committee responsible for BS 476-3). The aim of these meetings has been to determine a solution. MCS has stressed to those present in the meetings that there was an urgent need for a solution as, without one, the UK’s deployment of solar PV could be harmed. Possible solutions As Approved Document B will remove reference to BS 476-3 there is a question over a transition period. So, there is still a possibility that testing and classification according to BS 476-3 (in an edited form for the purpose of testing solar PV products) might form a temporary solution whilst representations are made to the European committee responsible for BS EN 15725. MCS is currently (and urgently) seeking: · A response from BSI as regards the possibility of updating BS 476-3 (or re-writing a version of it) to better apply to solar PV products. · Clarification from the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) regarding the transition period for the removal of BS 476-3 from Approved Document B. MCS will issue further updates as this evolves."
Dodgy panel, dodgy batch or dodgy MC4's - but won't say which brand/model Some fire safety expert (sarcasm) smh MCS might be aware of this, but the wheels turn very slowly In the meantime, how many installs will have these "known but won't say" panels being fitted to roofs With a thing like a known fire safety risk, there should not be just a brief mentioning or drip feeding potential risks from a specific brand/model... Sorry but Gonzalez needs to either publish his findings or maybe look for another career, coz by not publishing his findings more dodgy installs could be taking place, certain people could be dumping these items at clearance prices, unknowingly bought by companies in good faith to keep prices competitive - yet increasing risks of fires on roofs SMH
Exactly you either want to be a whistle-blower and care about the problem or you're just part of the problem . Name and shame so people can take action.
The long wave switch off was supposed to happen last spring but many radio teleswitch meters still hadn't been changed. The remote Scottish island where I live has many properties with such meters, and at the moment, there is no solution. We don't have coverage for smart meters, which is the obvious solution. Apparently, the signal won't be switched off until all meters are swapped, so whether it will actually happen next year, I don't know.
So... Tiled roof, panels on aluminum support frames, daisy chain connectors, probably 6mm solar cable, how did the panels catch fire and how did it spread into the loft space? I would like more on this story because we have no way of testing the quality of the panel, we can only test the performance and its electrical characteristics. Surely, even if a panel went into self-destruct mode what is there that can catch fire, outside with such a large surface area to power ratio? Are you not implying that something that was associated with the install, residing in the loft caught fire, I could fully understand that...
@@efixx A lot of in-roof systems (e.g. GSE) have plastic frames that you screw to the battens which keep out the water that makes its way around the panel. Dunno how flammable those frames are. Viridian and Solfit's systems don't so if a connector self-immolates it could set fire to a batten or the membrane. Maybe fireproof battens and membranes should be mandated for in-roof solar.
Archbishop and waylaid had an interesting one this week, an entire 3ph dis board supplied via a contactor powered by a separate single phase supply. Customer had the single phase disconnected and oops, no power anywhere. Never seen anything like that before, I think the building (an office complex) originally had storage heaters
Not a big fan of panels on the roof because I cannot access them once they're up there, and it will limit my future plans to build a room in the loft space. Instead I am a big fan for panels on walls or a canopy/pergola in my garden but no company does that 😕
If you can manage putting up one panel at a time, try a second and third panel when you feel ready. 365 days in a year, it soon adds up. Have gun doing it, like diy disabled me.
Always seems odd to me. External panels add shade for the roof. In-roof panels just give you a hot loft/attic. The house is hot enough in the summer as it is.
I would say someone cannot be very confident about their position, if they are unwilling to name potentially dangerous panels!! As for Octopus........too big for its own boots now!!
MCS is not the watchdog for solar installations... Far from it. They are not a statutory authority either. MCS certification is not mandatory for UK installations. Please provide a correction on this.
Publishing import/export prices 12+ hours in advance is all the communication that's needed for 'smart appliances'? I wonder if Nissan will add V2G to their e-Power units? At £1.30 per litre (~10kWh) and 50% (they claim) efficiency, that's 26p/kWh. Octopus Agile peaked at 70p/kWh recently! Might be handy for roadside rescue?
I presume it's because he doesn't want to take on their lawyers. I'm sure you can Google who is the number one supplier of in roof solar systems in the UK.
@@gavjlewis Solfit are one of the bigger known brands that make specific panels and the integrated roof mount kit, GSE make trays for a variety of panels sizes so don't think its them.
I work in the industry and can confirm this is a rampant issue with cheap Chinese brands of panels. Aiko, DMEG, JA, Jinko, Trina etc. are all very poorly constructed and are high risks. Avoid at all costs.
Person could have stated the fact, example this company used this module of panels and they are looking into why it caused the fire.. or I could be wrong and get sued for facts😅
Of course they can be sold, MCS is a standard that mostly recoognised so that consumers can receive SEG payments and the quipment used during their install is on the MCS register. Off grid users dont need MCS or any compliant hardware.
Absolutely not. MCS is a club. nothing more! Most energy provided still demand an MCS certificate before allowing a customer to sell electric to the grid, but it's not a legal requirement. Octopus no no longer requires certification from the MCS...
They are using gigawatts in data buildings but me getting an electric car will fix things 😂. I fall out of love more and more with renewables by the day. Come back when we are talking hydro power !
Utterly stupid way of looking at it. Your comment shows you're selfish. So think selfishly properly. Screw the planet. Now get PV to reduce your electric bills. Get a house battery to reduce them even more (I pay nothing for electricity during summer) Get an EV to reduce your fuel bills. I charge my car at night for 8p per kWh. For context, if I were paying 70p per kWh then it would cost me the same as petrol. Now if you happen to save the plenty a miniscule bit at the same time the that's icing on the planet surely. BE SELFISH and in doing so, save the planet as a side effect. Winner Winner. Chicken Dinner.
One of the problem of data centres is the wastage of heat. Most of the time the design is poor and we use chillers to cool down the data centre, but capturing the hot air and pumping this out somewhere to heat something and pulling cooler air from the outside is far better. Most of the time outside air is cool enough to keep the servers below their maximum temperature without cooling.
Takes careful design but it’s eminently doable.
Why not feed the waste heat into polytunnels, grow tomatoes etc.
I worked in a crematorium, wiring up a new heating boiler. I watched the process of bodies being cremated and observed the massive cooling systems and roof fans. It struck me that the heat should be put to better use. There's a housing estate nearby, many council stock. District heat them! Or at least heat the crematorium with the heat! The only barrier to this is that people would find it frightfully morbid to use this heat in this way. But most of the heat is produced by gas burners rather than by the burning bodies - indeed many bodies require extra flame towards the end to finish the burn.
MCS Certified - 24 October 2024:
"An update on Solar PV Module fire classifications
Late last year the MCS Solar Mounting Working Group became aware of a change to a European standard, that took effect in September 2023. This change meant that fire test laboratories were no longer in a position to issue a fire classification for solar PV modules.
Some solar PV products require a fire classification for certification against The Solar Mounting Product Standard (MCS012). More importantly, where solar products form a roof covering (i.e. roof-integrated) a fire classification is required so that compliance with Building Regulations can be demonstrated (specifically Regulation B4: External fire spread).
Any new products brought to market are currently unable to obtain a fire classification and therefore cannot be integrated into roofs in compliance with the Building Regulations. This also prevents them gaining MCS certification.
Overview
The fire classifications that can be issued for construction products are defined in BS EN 13501-5 and relate to test methods set out in CEN/TS 1187:2012. So, for example, a classification of Broof (t4) is based upon Test 4 of CEN/TS 1187:2012.
Both BS EN 13501-5 and CEN/TS 1187 apply specifically to construction products, as defined in the Construction Products Regulations. Solar PV products are not listed as construction products in those regulations. This was not previously an issue because test laboratories were able to use their own expert opinion for extended application (EXAP), according to the principles set out in BS EN 15725, to extend the testing scope of CEN/TS 1187. However, BS EN 15725:2023, which took effect in September 2023 (because the previous version was withdrawn) removed expert opinion as a process that could be used for EXAP.
Approved Document B currently details a transposition table (Table B2) between classifications according to BS EN 13501-5 and BS 476-3 so presents a possible solution, as the changes to BS EN 15725:2023 do not apply to BS 476-3 so in theory extended application of the test is still possible with expert opinion. However, it is the intention of the UK Government to remove this transposition table from Approved Document B so only classifications according to BS EN 13501-5 will be valid, closing off a potential interim solution.
What has MCS done to assist?
Despite this not being an issue originating from MCS, MCS has convened several meetings since this was brought to our attention with representatives from the Building Safety Regulator, the Northern Irish, Welsh and Scottish governments, fire test laboratories and BSI (specifically the Chair and Secretariat for FSH22-8 as the committee responsible for BS 476-3). The aim of these meetings has been to determine a solution.
MCS has stressed to those present in the meetings that there was an urgent need for a solution as, without one, the UK’s deployment of solar PV could be harmed.
Possible solutions
As Approved Document B will remove reference to BS 476-3 there is a question over a transition period. So, there is still a possibility that testing and classification according to BS 476-3 (in an edited form for the purpose of testing solar PV products) might form a temporary solution whilst representations are made to the European committee responsible for BS EN 15725.
MCS is currently (and urgently) seeking:
· A response from BSI as regards the possibility of updating BS 476-3 (or re-writing a version of it) to better apply to solar PV products.
· Clarification from the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) regarding the transition period for the removal of BS 476-3 from Approved Document B.
MCS will issue further updates as this evolves."
Great news weekly as always Joe
Thanks Sean. 😊
Dodgy panel, dodgy batch or dodgy MC4's - but won't say which brand/model
Some fire safety expert (sarcasm) smh
MCS might be aware of this, but the wheels turn very slowly
In the meantime, how many installs will have these "known but won't say" panels being fitted to roofs
With a thing like a known fire safety risk, there should not be just a brief mentioning or drip feeding potential risks from a specific brand/model...
Sorry but Gonzalez needs to either publish his findings or maybe look for another career, coz by not publishing his findings more dodgy installs could be taking place, certain people could be dumping these items at clearance prices, unknowingly bought by companies in good faith to keep prices competitive - yet increasing risks of fires on roofs
SMH
Thanks for commenting. 👍
Exactly you either want to be a whistle-blower and care about the problem or you're just part of the problem . Name and shame so people can take action.
You can be sure its MCS certified though :)
The long wave switch off was supposed to happen last spring but many radio teleswitch meters still hadn't been changed. The remote Scottish island where I live has many properties with such meters, and at the moment, there is no solution. We don't have coverage for smart meters, which is the obvious solution. Apparently, the signal won't be switched off until all meters are swapped, so whether it will actually happen next year, I don't know.
So... Tiled roof, panels on aluminum support frames, daisy chain connectors, probably 6mm solar cable, how did the panels catch fire and how did it spread into the loft space? I would like more on this story because we have no way of testing the quality of the panel, we can only test the performance and its electrical characteristics. Surely, even if a panel went into self-destruct mode what is there that can catch fire, outside with such a large surface area to power ratio? Are you not implying that something that was associated with the install, residing in the loft caught fire, I could fully understand that...
I guess it's more to do with the panels being embedded into the roof structure rather than sitting on the tiles. 🤔
@@efixx A lot of in-roof systems (e.g. GSE) have plastic frames that you screw to the battens which keep out the water that makes its way around the panel. Dunno how flammable those frames are. Viridian and Solfit's systems don't so if a connector self-immolates it could set fire to a batten or the membrane. Maybe fireproof battens and membranes should be mandated for in-roof solar.
@@efixx so it's something to do with the lack of air flow/cooling with the in-roof panels?
Big savings=somebody's getting screwed and it's not you.
Oh come on now, why so cynical? 😃
Archbishop and waylaid
had an interesting one this week, an entire 3ph dis board supplied via a contactor powered by a separate single phase supply. Customer had the single phase disconnected and oops, no power anywhere. Never seen anything like that before, I think the building (an office complex) originally had storage heaters
Not a big fan of panels on the roof because I cannot access them once they're up there, and it will limit my future plans to build a room in the loft space. Instead I am a big fan for panels on walls or a canopy/pergola in my garden but no company does that 😕
If you can manage putting up one panel at a time, try a second and third panel when you feel ready. 365 days in a year, it soon adds up. Have gun doing it, like diy disabled me.
Always seems odd to me. External panels add shade for the roof. In-roof panels just give you a hot loft/attic. The house is hot enough in the summer as it is.
I have seen some not even wired up on for show.
VW has enabled the ID range via software 3.7 to be bi directional for charging.
Good to know. 😁
they've come out, lol
only the ones with the latest large (long range) batteries?
@@edc1569 All of the ID range so 2021 id3 would be ok for example. :)
I would say someone cannot be very confident about their position, if they are unwilling to name potentially dangerous panels!!
As for Octopus........too big for its own boots now!!
Thanks for commenting! 😃
MCS is not the watchdog for solar installations... Far from it. They are not a statutory authority either. MCS certification is not mandatory for UK installations. Please provide a correction on this.
Publishing import/export prices 12+ hours in advance is all the communication that's needed for 'smart appliances'?
I wonder if Nissan will add V2G to their e-Power units? At £1.30 per litre (~10kWh) and 50% (they claim) efficiency, that's 26p/kWh. Octopus Agile peaked at 70p/kWh recently! Might be handy for roadside rescue?
'Simplistic' isn't another way of saying 'simple'.
None of what Treehouse is doing is AI. Fuzzylogic on your 1980s washing machine has more intelligence than webform with parameters behind it.
Sounds idiotic to claim you know of a life threatening defect then keep it to yourself.
It is a bit odd isn't it? Maybe there's a reason for it... 🤔
I presume it's because he doesn't want to take on their lawyers.
I'm sure you can Google who is the number one supplier of in roof solar systems in the UK.
@@efixxyeah he’s a pilchard
@@gavjlewis Solfit are one of the bigger known brands that make specific panels and the integrated roof mount kit, GSE make trays for a variety of panels sizes so don't think its them.
I work in the industry and can confirm this is a rampant issue with cheap Chinese brands of panels. Aiko, DMEG, JA, Jinko, Trina etc. are all very poorly constructed and are high risks. Avoid at all costs.
@@singlendhot8628 and these were Chinese were they?
Where these cheap Chinese panels? What's your position in the "industry"
I can relax. My roof is never going to have solar panels on it ,as long as I own it.
Archbishop, Waylaid
Great guesses Jason and congratulations on the win! 😃
Archbishop and shabby are the two words .
Good guesses as always Sean. 😃
4:21 #ArtisanElectrics @ArtisanElectrics already do this... ;-)
Archbishop and Bratislava
Nice guesses, make sure you listen to next week's show to see if you got it. 😃
Archbishop and costa del
Person could have stated the fact, example this company used this module of panels and they are looking into why it caused the fire.. or I could be wrong and get sued for facts😅
Yeah, bit of a tricky one, watch this space...
Archbishop & shabby 😊
Archbishop & Waylaid
Archbishop and waylaid :)
Challenge word was AI.
If its not MCS approved I thought it could not be sold? Although MCS is a joke itselt
Of course they can be sold, MCS is a standard that mostly recoognised so that consumers can receive SEG payments and the quipment used during their install is on the MCS register. Off grid users dont need MCS or any compliant hardware.
Absolutely not. MCS is a club. nothing more! Most energy provided still demand an MCS certificate before allowing a customer to sell electric to the grid, but it's not a legal requirement. Octopus no no longer requires certification from the MCS...
Archbishop and waylaid
Ooh, are you back on form Mark? We'll find out next Monday! 😊
@@efixx I thought the European drinks / places were a little too obvious…especially for your talented script writer!!! 😎
archbishop and waylaid is my guess for the two hidden words :)
Great guesses Dave, find out if you're right in next Monday's show. 😊
Fire on roofs is why I would only use micro inverters on roofs
Thanks for sharing your point of view. 😊
Are they immune to fires then....?
@@dougle03 not interlay but far better than 400vDC letting rip up there
They are using gigawatts in data buildings but me getting an electric car will fix things 😂. I fall out of love more and more with renewables by the day. Come back when we are talking hydro power !
Every little helps. 😃
Utterly stupid way of looking at it. Your comment shows you're selfish. So think selfishly properly.
Screw the planet.
Now get PV to reduce your electric bills. Get a house battery to reduce them even more (I pay nothing for electricity during summer)
Get an EV to reduce your fuel bills. I charge my car at night for 8p per kWh. For context, if I were paying 70p per kWh then it would cost me the same as petrol.
Now if you happen to save the plenty a miniscule bit at the same time the that's icing on the planet surely.
BE SELFISH and in doing so, save the planet as a side effect.
Winner Winner. Chicken Dinner.
First
Nice!
Archbishop and Bratislava
Archbishop and waylaid
Good guesses Philip, tune into next week's show to see if you got it. 😊
Archbishop and waylaid
Archbishop and waylaid