Photographers get paid to make what they do look easy. There is no greater compliment than a customer acknowledging their ignorance and saying "I could have done that with my phone" .... smile, breathe and thank them, "its taken me a decade to make it look THAT simple"
This is a story I tell my photography workshops and classes that I often teach. "In most homes there is often one really decent, maybe great, photograph hanging on the wall or in a stand on a desk or table. This indicates that some family member made a great photograph once. It also shows that even a blind dog can hit a hydrant now and then." I go on to tell them "if you learn this art well, you need to be able to produce a great photograph every time you pick up your camera." If you're a pro, you charge for your work, hopefully you print images for your clients, then they are paying you for your knowledge, not the print or digital image, but the knowledge that enabled the image to exist in the first place. To do that you need that knowledge coupled with experience. I've been in this business for 50 plus years and I still view various work by photographers to see what, if anything, they are doing that is new or different and whether it's worth incorporating it in some fashion into my skill set. So, when asked why my work is so costly, I simply tell them they're paying for my knowledge of photography, experience, time, and the ability to provide them with quality images, whether the images are for media use or for prints. That's it, nothing more, because that's what it boils down to in the end. Good photography is never cheap and cheap photography is never good. In my view it takes several years before a person can really become a "good" photographer. Don't charge more than you're worth.
The point you made about how a significant part of the fee represents the fact that the client can rest assured that the photographer will deliver not just high quality work but also deliver it on time is brilliant.
I've seen the same situation here in Australia; a person asks why wedding photographers are expensive, a photog jumps in to explain the cost of running their business as to why they need to charge what they charge. And my reaction to this kind of statement is the same as what you said: business decisions and expenses are not the client's problem. If you've failed to convey that your work has value it's likely either through a lack of skills in promotion, or the person asking just wants a photo-taker and doesn't have a care for the art of photography.
I briefly shot weddings in film days, because a pro wanted a second photographer and he knew I'd deliver. Short of a fox hole in a war zone, few photographic challenges are tougher than a wedding shoot. The technical aspect is demanding because it's a one-off, then you need the interpersonal skills of a professional diplomat, the control freakery of a movie director, and some serious editing capabilities, especially in the UK when a lot of work will be in dimly lit medieval churches. Film meant lumpy medium format cameras, low ISOs, 12 to a roll and an impeccable bedside manner while reloading, changing flash batteries and juggling camera bodies and lenses. I asked a friend who still shoots weddings why he does middling work when his technical and aesthetic sensibilities are top end, and he says 5+ figure wedding clients will happily sue your backside if their 18 stone partner doesn't look like Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie, or any aspect of their Big Day is less than full Disney. Good luck to anyone who makes a career at it.
I believe that my rate reflects what I bring to a clients project and that rate is influenced by how the images are to be used. I can shoot the same images for a small business or a MultiNational and they will be invoiced two very different amounts. As you stated, the pressure for those two examples are quite different and have a tremendous effect on the rate.
Nicely put 👍👍👍 Get paid to deliver in time, on budget, to the brief... full stop. I almost literally ROLF at “how much do you charge per hour” ... last time I was asked that I replied “I don’t, you have an iPhone “ and walked. It was a bit more complicated than that, a friend of a friend asked for a few pics whilst performing for what I thought was her social media, it turned out that actually it was the event organiser that wanted free pictures, the question was posed to me after me finding out before the show and pointing out that an event organiser should have a budget for advertising and that they wouldn’t be able to use my images.
I'm also a portrait photographer here in Philippines, and some of my clients complained about my fee, worth 100$ for 50 processed photos, including the raw, and with free 32gb or 16gb USB, it depends on availability. It's sad for me, that they don't understand the struggles that i make for a perfect shot. 😔 But thankyou sir, for sharing this video. ✌🏻📸
What do you think about this old allegory? It has been phrased or retold in multiple ways. "Nikola Tesla visited Henry Ford at his factory, which was having some kind of difficulty. Ford asked Tesla if he could help identify the problem area. Tesla walked up to a wall of boilerplate and made a small X in chalk on one of the plates. Ford was thrilled, and told him to send an invoice.The bill arrived, for $10,000. Ford asked for a breakdown. Tesla sent another invoice, indicating a $1 charge for marking the wall with an X, and $9,999 for knowing where to put it. "
Agreed. But... I do believe that the primary factor of being able to charge higher fees is... As your parting words of the vid confirmed: (i.e. "...until you've put the time in...") - it's the *years of time you've put in* in order to (reliably) create the images the client wants/gets that justifies high fees. IOW, it's the ol' "I could have pretty much shot that image just as well with my own phone" thing. Yes, perhaps... If you were very, very, lucky and the light happened to be juuuust right, and the composition just happened to be perfect, etc. then... you miiiiight have gotten "pretty much" that same excellent shot. Once in a blue-moon. In short, yes - a myriad of factors play into the monetary worth of a high-priced PRO-fessional... of ANYTHING. But trust that your heart surgeon didn't master that tricky bypass technique in a single month, year, or even decade. That and... yes, w/ photog, it's also about the creative vision of the photographer. But I'd argue that creative vision won't get you very far - unless you can also reliably reproduce excellent images on demand.
As a photographer, for standard stuff (that every reasonably competent photographer should be able to do), like headshots, portraits, basic product photography, etc, I charge what the market will bear for those services (and yes, for those basic types of photography, those are essentially commodity services), and I do it spending as little money as possible. It's not glamorous big budget stuff, but, it pays the bills and allows me to work on my personal work, that one day will lead to big budget stuff. In my experience, people gladly pay for what they value, so if a potential client is questioning why I'm charging what I'm charging, its because they don't value that type of work. You can try to be a salesman and try to explain and sell the value to those types of customers, but I find that unless I really need the money, it's easier and faster to simply acknowledge that you're out of their price range and refer them to your competitors so you can concentrate on getting those customers that actually value your work instead. Sometimes after they've shopped around a bit and talked to your competitors, they find that your price isn't actually out of line and it's them that needs to adjust, and they come back. In those instances, the reason they came back likely is because of your portfolio, so it's for this reason why it's helpful to make your portfolio the best it can be. They don't always come back, but having a really good portfolio helps increase the number that do.
Commercial architectural and interior photographer here 🙋♂️ I know I’m expensive and I charge what I charge because that’s what the work that I produce is worth to the client who’s buying it, end of story. No client cares how I came to my price they just want to know if I can produce the work they want and if it’s inside their budget. It has taken me a really long time to get to this point but it has given me so much more confidence now when talking to new clients regarding my prices. Outside of this the biggest factor that impacts my prices now is how much I wish to work with a client or do the project and how likely for repeat business there is. ✌️👍
Years ago when I worked in elec engineering, I visited a support workplace, and there was a guy there, reading the paper, feet up on the desk. Since I was always one of these overachievers, I asked, “What’s up with the pepper, feet?” He replied, “I don’t get paid for what I do, I get paid for what I know.” He was an arrogant prick too, but the words had some truth because the guy was brilliant. Many newcomers who enter product world think they are going to have free creative run. This is rarely the case when you start charging bigger money. The client hired you because they feel you can best deliver their concepts and their vision executed in a timely manner. When a wannabee shooter once saw me working off storyboards when he came to visit, he wanted to know who drew the cartoons. When I told him that’s what the creative director drew and I had to try and execute, I think he got a little scared. So maybe we get paid for being able to manage fear 😀 so we’ll that no one notices.
The best customers are the ones who seek you out, and the ones who run their own businesses. They understand completely that they are paying for experience and how to keep things under control when things are not necessarily going to plan.
I like to think what peiple pay for is the ability create the thing that they themselves are unable to create. So basically the unique combination of skills and the right tools to accomplish the job.
A photoghrapher is paid what he is for the end result that the client wants. He has to organise the shoot, sort out kit and models and partisipants and location. This being the case even if weather is rubbish overcast rain etc. The client want an end result he can be proud of. The photographer must be able to deliver this no ifs or but there may be no second chance at this so it must be perfect first time, that is what the client is paying for.
yeah enjyed hearing your thoughts and wisdom - for me im still a little trapped by clients on a budget and so i tailor my work to that budget - I used to create champagne shots on the clients beer budget but no longer as its not appreciated the time and effort I put in - was great for some portfolio shots but realistically now for clients wanting shots on a budget that they dictate I dictate what I can provide - an example is training shoe shots where the client wants them to look bright and punchy on white - I use a single bare speedlite to achieve - i could easily spend hours crafting and perfecting a multi light shot that will captivate the client and I have previously done so but the money on the table does not justfy the time investment its better I get something out the door that works, clean and punchy and quick to do without me spending extra hours in post production either. Eventtually the goal is to find clients wanting more and willing to pay more for it
@@piotr.czechowski no my images are beyond that, I think its more because I dont advertise, no agent, I dont market myself well and have not fired up awareness of my services
If I'm pricing my labor, I'm pricing it based on my estimate of the labor hours required for you to do it, my hourly goes up based on my ability to exceed that. The inverse applies when you're trying to work out whether or not you should outsource work, are you able to provide yourself a better value rather than farming that task out?
I had to bite my tongue when speaking with one of my recent clients. He stated that he doesn't know why I charge so much, all I do is push the shutter button! and , get this, he added, "because I'm giving you all the ideas of what I want" - Uh, that's the brief?!
The wedding photography market is business-to-consumer; the mindset is quite different from the commercial business-to-business customer. B2B customers spend money that isn't personally theirs, and so, less precious. Definitely less emotional.
I think a high fee says a few things, probably more things, but these are the two that is in my head: you punch at a high level almost consistently, and, if the shit hits the fan, you are still able to punch at a level that succeeds at delivering...that is peace of mind for the client. It is similar to actors being in movies - it brings a certain audience by default and makes the investment less risky. Risk aversion I suppose. The risk is already with the client that the money they are spending on marketing/product might fall short of the mark, so at least let's not build risk into the photographer and the photographic product we want.
As an ex professional programmer who has programmed and trained neural networks - and knows why an AI driven car could suddenly turn left and slam straight into a brick wall - and also knows why nobody can explain why this happened afterwards - I assure you that AI can be, and certainly will be, just as creative as you are. That is the awful truth. Creativity is massively over-rated. In reality creativity draws much more heavily than most people realize on on everything they have ever seen, heard or experienced in the past.
I think that we charge a fee to solve a problem. Sometimes the client knows what the problem is and sometimes they don't. But we solve it. How we solve it doesn't determine the fee. The value of the solution should be driving that equation. So it's more of a question of understanding the value you bring. Things go wrong when a bespoke service becomes comoditised and it's our fault to believe it to be so.
If you are one of those who charge customers for what you use, then what you do has no value. I charge for the image and for the experience that the client will have with me. As I say to many "this is not a shooting, this is an experience, a film, we are not going to take an image, we are going to make an image" I imagine that when Scott has the agency or the creative director in his studio is when he understands what he is paying for. When they see how the image is being created step by step, they feel the value for what they are paying. That is why it should be charged.
What else would you add to the list?
Photographers get paid to make what they do look easy. There is no greater compliment than a customer acknowledging their ignorance and saying "I could have done that with my phone" .... smile, breathe and thank them, "its taken me a decade to make it look THAT simple"
haha yes!
This is a story I tell my photography workshops and classes that I often teach. "In most homes there is often one really decent, maybe great, photograph hanging on the wall or in a stand on a desk or table. This indicates that some family member made a great photograph once. It also shows that even a blind dog can hit a hydrant now and then." I go on to tell them "if you learn this art well, you need to be able to produce a great photograph every time you pick up your camera." If you're a pro, you charge for your work, hopefully you print images for your clients, then they are paying you for your knowledge, not the print or digital image, but the knowledge that enabled the image to exist in the first place. To do that you need that knowledge coupled with experience. I've been in this business for 50 plus years and I still view various work by photographers to see what, if anything, they are doing that is new or different and whether it's worth incorporating it in some fashion into my skill set. So, when asked why my work is so costly, I simply tell them they're paying for my knowledge of photography, experience, time, and the ability to provide them with quality images, whether the images are for media use or for prints. That's it, nothing more, because that's what it boils down to in the end. Good photography is never cheap and cheap photography is never good. In my view it takes several years before a person can really become a "good" photographer. Don't charge more than you're worth.
The point you made about how a significant part of the fee represents the fact that the client can rest assured that the photographer will deliver not just high quality work but also deliver it on time is brilliant.
I've seen the same situation here in Australia; a person asks why wedding photographers are expensive, a photog jumps in to explain the cost of running their business as to why they need to charge what they charge. And my reaction to this kind of statement is the same as what you said: business decisions and expenses are not the client's problem.
If you've failed to convey that your work has value it's likely either through a lack of skills in promotion, or the person asking just wants a photo-taker and doesn't have a care for the art of photography.
Glad its not just a UK problem
Get it out on time!
Now that just has put a stop on my endless quest for perfection…
Thanks for the reminder. 😄
Does not matter how good you are, you are only as good as your last shoot, the pressure to create and provide it is always there.
I briefly shot weddings in film days, because a pro wanted a second photographer and he knew I'd deliver. Short of a fox hole in a war zone, few photographic challenges are tougher than a wedding shoot. The technical aspect is demanding because it's a one-off, then you need the interpersonal skills of a professional diplomat, the control freakery of a movie director, and some serious editing capabilities, especially in the UK when a lot of work will be in dimly lit medieval churches. Film meant lumpy medium format cameras, low ISOs, 12 to a roll and an impeccable bedside manner while reloading, changing flash batteries and juggling camera bodies and lenses.
I asked a friend who still shoots weddings why he does middling work when his technical and aesthetic sensibilities are top end, and he says 5+ figure wedding clients will happily sue your backside if their 18 stone partner doesn't look like Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie, or any aspect of their Big Day is less than full Disney. Good luck to anyone who makes a career at it.
😂🤣👍
I believe that my rate reflects what I bring to a clients project and that rate is influenced by how the images are to be used. I can shoot the same images for a small business or a MultiNational and they will be invoiced two very different amounts. As you stated, the pressure for those two examples are quite different and have a tremendous effect on the rate.
I agree. When asked I simply say that they are paying for "my experience and skill to provide the service they want"
Nicely put 👍👍👍
Get paid to deliver in time, on budget, to the brief... full stop.
I almost literally ROLF at “how much do you charge per hour” ... last time I was asked that I replied “I don’t, you have an iPhone “ and walked. It was a bit more complicated than that, a friend of a friend asked for a few pics whilst performing for what I thought was her social media, it turned out that actually it was the event organiser that wanted free pictures, the question was posed to me after me finding out before the show and pointing out that an event organiser should have a budget for advertising and that they wouldn’t be able to use my images.
I'm also a portrait photographer here in Philippines, and some of my clients complained about my fee, worth 100$ for 50 processed photos, including the raw, and with free 32gb or 16gb USB, it depends on availability. It's sad for me, that they don't understand the struggles that i make for a perfect shot. 😔 But thankyou sir, for sharing this video. ✌🏻📸
What do you think about this old allegory? It has been phrased or retold in multiple ways.
"Nikola Tesla visited Henry Ford at his factory, which was having some kind of difficulty. Ford asked Tesla if he could help identify the problem area. Tesla walked up to a wall of boilerplate and made a small X in chalk on one of the plates. Ford was thrilled, and told him to send an invoice.The bill arrived, for $10,000. Ford asked for a breakdown. Tesla sent another invoice, indicating a $1 charge for marking the wall with an X, and $9,999 for knowing where to put it. "
Yup, thats a great example of what we bill for.
Agreed. But... I do believe that the primary factor of being able to charge higher fees is... As your parting words of the vid confirmed: (i.e. "...until you've put the time in...") - it's the *years of time you've put in* in order to (reliably) create the images the client wants/gets that justifies high fees.
IOW, it's the ol' "I could have pretty much shot that image just as well with my own phone" thing. Yes, perhaps... If you were very, very, lucky and the light happened to be juuuust right, and the composition just happened to be perfect, etc. then... you miiiiight have gotten "pretty much" that same excellent shot. Once in a blue-moon.
In short, yes - a myriad of factors play into the monetary worth of a high-priced PRO-fessional... of ANYTHING. But trust that your heart surgeon didn't master that tricky bypass technique in a single month, year, or even decade. That and... yes, w/ photog, it's also about the creative vision of the photographer. But I'd argue that creative vision won't get you very far - unless you can also reliably reproduce excellent images on demand.
Brilliant!
As a photographer, for standard stuff (that every reasonably competent photographer should be able to do), like headshots, portraits, basic product photography, etc, I charge what the market will bear for those services (and yes, for those basic types of photography, those are essentially commodity services), and I do it spending as little money as possible. It's not glamorous big budget stuff, but, it pays the bills and allows me to work on my personal work, that one day will lead to big budget stuff.
In my experience, people gladly pay for what they value, so if a potential client is questioning why I'm charging what I'm charging, its because they don't value that type of work. You can try to be a salesman and try to explain and sell the value to those types of customers, but I find that unless I really need the money, it's easier and faster to simply acknowledge that you're out of their price range and refer them to your competitors so you can concentrate on getting those customers that actually value your work instead. Sometimes after they've shopped around a bit and talked to your competitors, they find that your price isn't actually out of line and it's them that needs to adjust, and they come back. In those instances, the reason they came back likely is because of your portfolio, so it's for this reason why it's helpful to make your portfolio the best it can be. They don't always come back, but having a really good portfolio helps increase the number that do.
I've just discovered your Channel today. Absolute brilliant business, life, money and photography advice 10/10
Welcome aboard!
Commercial architectural and interior photographer here 🙋♂️ I know I’m expensive and I charge what I charge because that’s what the work that I produce is worth to the client who’s buying it, end of story. No client cares how I came to my price they just want to know if I can produce the work they want and if it’s inside their budget. It has taken me a really long time to get to this point but it has given me so much more confidence now when talking to new clients regarding my prices. Outside of this the biggest factor that impacts my prices now is how much I wish to work with a client or do the project and how likely for repeat business there is. ✌️👍
Years ago when I worked in elec engineering, I visited a support workplace, and there was a guy there, reading the paper, feet up on the desk. Since I was always one of these overachievers, I asked, “What’s up with the pepper, feet?” He replied, “I don’t get paid for what I do, I get paid for what I know.” He was an arrogant prick too, but the words had some truth because the guy was brilliant.
Many newcomers who enter product world think they are going to have free creative run. This is rarely the case when you start charging bigger money. The client hired you because they feel you can best deliver their concepts and their vision executed in a timely manner. When a wannabee shooter once saw me working off storyboards when he came to visit, he wanted to know who drew the cartoons. When I told him that’s what the creative director drew and I had to try and execute, I think he got a little scared. So maybe we get paid for being able to manage fear 😀 so we’ll that no one notices.
I was just thinking about this stuff this morning. Excellent point of view.
thank you!
The best customers are the ones who seek you out, and the ones who run their own businesses. They understand completely that they are paying for experience and how to keep things under control when things are not necessarily going to plan.
As you said, we charge for what we are and what we do perfectly ..... That's it ! but not for any other reasons
I like to think what peiple pay for is the ability create the thing that they themselves are unable to create. So basically the unique combination of skills and the right tools to accomplish the job.
"Who's your second choice to play John McClane?" - Bruce Willis
Thanks! Great Info!
Glad it was helpful!
some people are able to charge a lot because they have a lot of followers on social media, and this will impact the reach the campaign will have.
A photoghrapher is paid what he is for the end result that the client wants. He has to organise the shoot, sort out kit and models and partisipants and location. This being the case even if weather is rubbish overcast rain etc.
The client want an end result he can be proud of. The photographer must be able to deliver this no ifs or but there may be no second chance at this so it must be perfect first time, that is what the client is paying for.
yeah enjyed hearing your thoughts and wisdom - for me im still a little trapped by clients on a budget and so i tailor my work to that budget - I used to create champagne shots on the clients beer budget but no longer as its not appreciated the time and effort I put in - was great for some portfolio shots but realistically now for clients wanting shots on a budget that they dictate I dictate what I can provide - an example is training shoe shots where the client wants them to look bright and punchy on white - I use a single bare speedlite to achieve - i could easily spend hours crafting and perfecting a multi light shot that will captivate the client and I have previously done so but the money on the table does not justfy the time investment its better I get something out the door that works, clean and punchy and quick to do without me spending extra hours in post production either.
Eventtually the goal is to find clients wanting more and willing to pay more for it
@@piotr.czechowski no my images are beyond that, I think its more because I dont advertise, no agent, I dont market myself well and have not fired up awareness of my services
If I'm pricing my labor, I'm pricing it based on my estimate of the labor hours required for you to do it, my hourly goes up based on my ability to exceed that. The inverse applies when you're trying to work out whether or not you should outsource work, are you able to provide yourself a better value rather than farming that task out?
I had to bite my tongue when speaking with one of my recent clients. He stated that he doesn't know why I charge so much, all I do is push the shutter button! and , get this, he added, "because I'm giving you all the ideas of what I want" - Uh, that's the brief?!
Oh wow! haha
The wedding photography market is business-to-consumer; the mindset is quite different from the commercial business-to-business customer. B2B customers spend money that isn't personally theirs, and so, less precious. Definitely less emotional.
yeah theres certainly a different vibe when spending someone elses money haha
I think a high fee says a few things, probably more things, but these are the two that is in my head: you punch at a high level almost consistently, and, if the shit hits the fan, you are still able to punch at a level that succeeds at delivering...that is peace of mind for the client. It is similar to actors being in movies - it brings a certain audience by default and makes the investment less risky. Risk aversion I suppose. The risk is already with the client that the money they are spending on marketing/product might fall short of the mark, so at least let's not build risk into the photographer and the photographic product we want.
As an ex professional programmer who has programmed and trained neural networks - and knows why an AI driven car could suddenly turn left and slam straight into a brick wall - and also knows why nobody can explain why this happened afterwards - I assure you that AI can be, and certainly will be, just as creative as you are. That is the awful truth.
Creativity is massively over-rated. In reality creativity draws much more heavily than most people realize on on everything they have ever seen, heard or experienced in the past.
Kangaroos? Of all the animals in the world you chose kangaroos😉 I like your videos and I understand the messages you give us.
I think that we charge a fee to solve a problem. Sometimes the client knows what the problem is and sometimes they don't. But we solve it. How we solve it doesn't determine the fee. The value of the solution should be driving that equation.
So it's more of a question of understanding the value you bring. Things go wrong when a bespoke service becomes comoditised and it's our fault to believe it to be so.
If you are one of those who charge customers for what you use, then what you do has no value. I charge for the image and for the experience that the client will have with me. As I say to many "this is not a shooting, this is an experience, a film, we are not going to take an image, we are going to make an image"
I imagine that when Scott has the agency or the creative director in his studio is when he understands what he is paying for. When they see how the image is being created step by step, they feel the value for what they are paying.
That is why it should be charged.