Hahaha yeah you're exactly right man. These people don't understand that this isn't sampling. To even bring in MF Doom's name or Daft Punk is so dumb. This girl stole demo tracks, she didn't do anything creative, she saw an opportunity to cheat and fast track her career in the hopes no one would find out plain and simple.
Its so annoying how people are changing the narrative. I agree with you Weaver, this is not about sampling an existing song. This is about a fully-fledged song by all rights, having slight alterations added to it and saying its unique, which it clearly isn't
It's not SAMPLING its PLAGIARISM We called her out FOR PLAGIARISM not SAMPLING. This is not a mistake she's done this more than once she's gotten away with this the fact that she pulled a woman card and how hard it is to be a female producer ( it is hard to be a female producer Benn Jordan have a great video on the topic ) while moving the goalpost is slimy on her end. People that defend this probably never gotten their shit stolen by a bigger artist
being a woman is NOT an excuse and hiding behind that is only harming other female producers not being taken seriously... Actually when it is hard, one should try even harder to come up with own stuff and own sounds. I don't understand people who want to take a whole creation of someone else and claim it as their own. What's the pride in that? Being inspired by others differs from straight plagiarism or copying. I am not a producer or anything, just a nobody who likes to play with DAW for fun without releasing anything, at least for now. But if I use a sample from a pack, I avoid even opening the demo or project files to avoid the confusion or by accidentally using them in case I one day upload my projects somewhere. I wish the project files were not included because some people don't necessarily understand what they are for and that they can't use them in projects they make public and don't read the license(yep dumb but many don't). I read the licenses, but I didn't know at first what project files were for. I mostly use presets and sounds but try to come up with my own melodies or at least something original.. loops I try to avoid more and more and one shots etc I add to spice things up. But if I use samples as such, I also say that. I call them puzzles that I only put together in strange order but someone else created the pieces for. I don't want to take any credit whatsoever of things I didn't make. But basically most of the stuff I make is sort of created by others anyway because I didn't create the instrument sounds either. I hope in the future I can make more and more my own sounds beyond one water drum and my vocals, but I doubt I will never be able to create all the instrument sounds I use from scratch :) This person didn't do this by accident, one time is maybe an accident, but when it happens so many times, no way... One way one could end up using project files by accident is if they only make a common file search for sounds/samples from all the music files they have. But adding a single project file won't still make the whole song sound exactly the same as the demo song. And I don't think she took full responsibility because it was not just about using loops and sampling but clearly copying. She deserved to be called out for it but of course not doxxing or threats or anything like that. Stealing from another artist is low no matter how big they are, but especially when they benefit financially and otherwise from something the original artist is trying to make a living out of.
Thats funny because I’m pretty sure music production doesn’t care if you’re male, female, or a cactus. It still requires the same amount of work. The only thing hard about being a female music producer is producing music 😂
The phase cancelling idea at 11:20 would never work. Venus was expecting to play both tracks and hear difference only - that works only if you have exactly the same fundamental frequency with exact same amplitude. Inverting two tracks that are made of the same stems but differ slightly in gain and maybe have one or two different elements would be enough to totally stop cancellation. Mixes are complex frequency bands, and it is very hard to have full song cancelled, even if mixing the same stems. Say, you add one single distorted bass note - it will mess up entire frequency spectrum, and when inverted, you will not hear only that bass. The only result would be very flangy and unpleasant sweeping.
Thank you. I immediately thought the same thing, in fact i shouted it out loud when I was watching the video and he did that because it seemed so baffling to me that this professional musician had no idea how phase cancellation works.
also the concept of even getting these two tracks to line up "time-wise" to enact a phase cancellation can be incredibly difficult after one version has undergone a totally different master bus chain. and yea the unpleasant sweeping of a comb filtered sound.
@@adamkumpmusic exactly, change dynamics and you are done. you'll never match even close. the only thing you can get is actually reverse , doubling the amplitude, as signals are so messed up you start adding up. Maybe a few db drop in some radical cases but i doubt it - more like just a phasing/comb filter.
My thoughts exactly when I watched Venus' video a few days ago. What's the point? He surely knows better. There are so many factors, from the different signal chains to the file format and source he used to compare.. I guess he just needed a 'scientific proof' section just for the sake of it.
I loled when Venus tried to null it like it's some circuss trick to impress children. At this point, he is more of a "lifestyle" than music production channel.
That synth dude that doesn't compare sampling in the right context reminds me of if someone cloned Ricky Tinez...but like dialed way up on the corporate job interview button stats on the cloning vst. Notlo hanging jowels probably has no conscience I mean look at what she subjects her fans to. that's like musical narcissistic abuse 😂. Lol listening to Ron pearlmans dogs mustach Rickey Tinez ass clone guy talking about sampling has a Beato vibe....he definitely should hear burial...and so much of the massive attack unkle dj shadow era even the prodigy and stuff like that we're making genius compositions with samples and like no sample time
like he usually does with his vids, he ends up presenting a well-thought-out yet inoffensive, gray area take on a topic, which isn't really adequate in this case. not once i heard him say, "yeah, this was a pretty egregious streak of creative plagiarism, intentional or not" which was disappointing
I was always amazed what are the construction kits for in all the packs. Whats the point? 😂 I assume a lot of people do this, ive seen packs containing ONLY construction kits. Thats some low life shit.
He's so bland and boring that it makes me want to kill myself. He doesn't have the balls to speak his mind and always does the, is this 'topic' wrong or right? Let me know the answer in the comment section. He's so bland that he managed to appear in big companies' UA-cam channels to promote their shit. Thanks to Weaver the producer section of UA-cam has some soul to it, the rest are dead people talking.
LMFAO the mf doom callout at the end, im sleep... yeah the boy kc basically sums up the main issue w a lot of these responses, that theyre (intentionally or not) filled with red herrings that just detract from the actual issue
The samples in the sample pack are so distinctive. It’s impossible to not draw comparisons. She def ripped the demo but these sample packs are just songs that have all of their sounds turned into loops. This is just Lego construction of music. Not songwriting.
People are looking at yhe packs and kits themselves and not forst thinking about what they want to make. Say you make for example kicks and snares from a synthesizer but want more funky rounded harmonics. Youd have to stitch the body or tail of other one shot drum samples onto them and compress saturate or distort until getting the desired result. That and rearranging a chord progression and deriving melodies basslines and inflections, it aint exactly writing sheet music but its more improvised then just aligning some loops and calling it a day
Amen break is one element. That's like saying an 808 is the same situation. The notlo situation would be like if someone took the stems of Winston's amen brother entire song and assembled them and called it their own.
I found your channel just a few days ago from UA-cam recommending it to me because of the Waves drama lol. But this video is such a breath of fresh air to me, I love that you're actively pointing out whenever people are really stretching with their comparisons or making points that really don't have anything to do with copying the demo tracks here. I'm subbing to you for sure
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against PRINCIPALITIES, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.🤔
She recreated a demo track unlike Cymatics who openly state they don’t need to be notified for major placements and use the ppl that have those placements as promo. Ghost Syndicate is the DnB sample kings. They have clear terms and the passive exclusion of this information is wild. She did it 4 times this is a trend.
im pretty sure she downloaded the stems and then later on was going thru her projects to find something to release. opened it up and worked on it a little more to make the "finished" song and then released. Venus Theory's flipping the polarity experiment wouldnt work because she probably did do some processing and you have to get them matched up EXACTLY to the millisecond to work correctly.
To take the demo track of the specific samples from the sample pack purchased and add some saturation and extra bump and then put that out as your own, you should be shot in the street, you have no mind for this art or it's creative your only here to steal or mimik anothers creative, your just another fake, maybe try taking up golf
@@kwaddamage8286 if you add an EQ to a sound, and made a single change, the phase inversion wont cancel out, its surprisingly easy to rotate the phase of a. She knew what she was doing when she ripped them off. she didn do this by accident 4 times
1 time is more than enough, it says everything about you...any artist worth their weight in anything would never even dream of doing such a thing. Your mind only plots and schemes when you know you're lacking...she's a fraud and a wannabe
The reason us artists are pissed is like me and others that make everything from scratch and do everything ourselves w love don't get the same deals and gigs as this thief!!!
Thanks for actually understanding the situation and not obfuscating the issue and attempting to gaslight everybody like seemingly every other UA-camr and producer.
don't the chainsmokers constantly get sued because they get caught ripping full melodies from other songs/artists, then have to include them in the song credits and royalties?
Everyone defending this shit "Bro who cares, she got caught using samples/loops the same way "everyone" does, move on". 2 weeks later "Dude music is so generic and uninspired and the same shit over and over again, its impossible for original artists to get noticed, why is it like this?".
I absolutely agree that Venus Theory should've structured his video differently, and not done the whole; "but, what do you think?" at the end. I get that it drives engagement, but in this case there really is no grey area as to what happened.
Actually, he is not. He is merely expanding upon the issue to 1)Test whether it was merely copied, and 2)To raise the question of how far can sampling go before losing atistic integrity. He wasn't here to spoonfeed answer but raise thoughtful questions for us to decide for ourselves.
@@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios obviously there are minor changes. Phase cancellation is pointless- he’s missing the point. Those extremely minor changes shouldn’t be enough to pass it on as your own even if they would be allowed to.. the complete lack of originality is just complete garbage. The person should be labeled spam, not an artist
I agree. Nobody cares if the tracks don't cancel out because there's a few more kicks in the notlo version. That doesn't make it her track. This is why the dubstep genre is filled with generic garbage.
@@sonicpulp9417 Actually, you keep stating that he is "Missing the Point". However your arguments actually miss a major fundamental point, in that we all... All of us share different values, and principles... Not merely from a morality standpoint... but our tastes in art. And just like on person may prefer more or less salt, pepper, or any other ingredient within their dish... The chef is the one who is seasoning it to their taste. One or many may decide that they do not like a dish, an entire menu, or a mass rejection may cause the restaurant to shut down. But that does not mean that the chef is wrong, so long as they did not steal the recipe from another chef. Chefs are oft inspired by one another, but to object to how much or little one is inspired by another is "Subjective". The "Subjectivity" is the larger matter in question. His argument was that she did not steal the piece (proven via a phase cancellation). However, beyond that... Everything becomes a slippery slope, as it is all relegated to the perspectives of the individuals and what our views are regarding these matters. This is not a matter of right or wrong. It is far more nuanced. Therefore, getting the 1 and only "sole" objective piece out of the way was critical to his argument... which was... "Did she steal it?" ...Because if she didn't, then we are back into a world of ever-compounding loops, and the conflicts which arise from them.
I´m a producer since 2004 and have seen the rise in Samplepacks with Loops and Construction Kits. Back in the day, using loops without heavily editing/rearranging them was looked down upon as a lack of creativity and skill. NotLo plain and simple stole multiple demo tracks and when she got exposed, she called it "Sampling", thereby disrespecting incredible artists like 9th Wonder, Dilla, Primo or Alchemist.
Okay, I'm back. I actually really like your channel. I wanted to hate you after this but realized you're one of the better producer UA-camrs, because it's really informative and sometimes funny. This was the first video of yours I saw and it really bothered me as a new producer, because I paid $400 for yearly ultimate access to splice, then discovered all these controversies surrounding people using beats.... from Splice. And honestly? It pissed me off. I spent money on this service, but I can't use it....? However, I also understand how frustrating it would be if someone stole one of my tracks. I made something really cool the other night using samples, but it is literally night and day from the original. There's no way I would get busted for the beat police and it is DOPE! I haven't heard anything like it, so naturally I too would be frustrated if someone stole this from me. However, I will say this - there are people outright "stealing" from others as documented in other episodes of your show (Palace), then there are these sample packs. I think, from a moral point of view - if you have sold your loop pack for use, you should in theory be disqualified from being a victim to your samples being used. That's what really frustrates me, as a new user and a new new super new producer. Because we're being misled about the truth (newbies using Splice). The song Notlo made, kind of sucked. It wasn't that good. I think that's the extent to which she should be punished - her music suffers as a consequence of being lazy. Sorry to talk about Notlo, but somehow your show sucked me in after you pissed me off.
I agree with you. Look at the end of the day it comes down to integrity right? What does it say about an artist that isn't creative enough to come up with their own musical ideas and should that artist have the spotlight over someone who does? Easy answer is fuck no.
5:03 “everything is a copy of a copy of a copy” that was like a dejavú moment in this rabbit hole! Like we all been there . On a different universe we were all producing nocturna sample pack, hallucination effect, twitter expose, UA-cam reactions, etc it’s like dubstep inception 🐇
Novice beatmakers have been selling beats made directly from construction kits for decades...they always get found out by their customer base and peers, then you would never hear from them again.
I like that statement you made (Summarised) It’s not all about having amazing musical talent.. But about creating something that makes people feel... Without blatantly ripping something off.. I’m a classical piano player, but it’s very rare that I find myself playing classical music into a dance track that I’m writing.. And ya.. I’m a no one in the dance music industry, but often play with large orchestras.. Point being.. If you write it, and it makes you feel good inside.. At least you can hold your head up..
The state of modern electronic based music . I’m not a country music fan but I respect that it takes people writing songs, Playing instruments , and performing said songs. Same for (most) rock music. EDM/HipHop has turned into a low barrier to entry game 😢
She didn't even acknowledge the fact that they sound eerily similar. If it's some coincidence don't you think she would have mentioned it? She didn't, all her response was about was her admitting she uses samples. Pretty obvious that she did in fact used the demo track.
By the definition sampling is using part of another song, while using sample is not sampling. throwing a kick sample into your playlist (or a loop) is not sampling. People use this term wrong, and you are right.
Whats the difference between a copy and an homage? Also What if you “cover” aka re-create what you want to sample and then sample it. What about that. Ive sampled myself before 😊 I also dont release my music anymore, Im in training mode for now.
What about soldier boy using the stock loops/somg for “crank that” from Garage Band, how does that compare for for folks? See Jehfree (now jehfslaps?) original video that went viral.
It's completely different from legit sampling, however it's the ugly byproduct of loops. I see sampling as taking bits and pieces from either other works or things that you've made and manipulating them into something else for use somewhere else. And though that should apply just the same to loops, it really doesn't seem to carry over the same amount...it just seems like people see loops as big building blocks as opposed to big blocks made of smaller blocks that can be used to make a completely new shape. There's just this really narrow view of loops I feel, an' I don't get how any musician could be happy putting their name on something they put minimal effort into
at the beginning (80s, maybe early 90s) music and sound libs where used just to "sketch" for clients and/or collaborators, it got out of hand so hard, donuts like this girl just add another lib loop on top of it and then sell it as their art, the concept of samplig is wonderful, its one of the new era musical instruments, the capability of taking a SAMPLE of your auditive experience and manipulate it to create more coplex scenarios is just genius, just dont fall to the easy dark side
Samples I use in my projects are basic samples that anyone can make but I use to save time on my work flow. So like risers, sweeps, instrumental one shots like chimes or orchestral drums. Other than that I make everything on my own using midi. The one thing I wish I had an artist to work with is vocal samples. Finding one shot vocal samples or vocal swells on splice is a bitch and a half because they're either over used or not what I'm looking for.
Bro its amazing how ignorant people are in the music space… you have some great takes though. Its blatant disrespect to call just using a loop throwing new drums on it, etc to call it “sampling”. 😂😂😂 Totally agree wit you on that my guy. Keep exposing these clowns. I’m glad i just subscribed to your channel. 🤙🏻
Yeah totally agree with your take, I was also rather frustrated with the Venus Theory video since I do like to use chord loops from splice to build a track around and found the comparison totally disingenuous. I've heard other tracks by producers using the same loops and the result is something entirely different, that's the point, doing something creative around the loop or sample. And it really has nothing to do with this NotLo behaviour.
Comparing two things isn’t saying they are the same. Seems like so many people here missed the point of VT’s comparisons. VT wasn’t making an opinion statement, he was laying out examples across the full range of sample use; and letting us make our own decision.
The fact that liquid stranger’s label Wakaan released one of these songs is a bit mind blowing to a degree. Im sure he wasnt aware until all of this came out, but im surprised he hasnt said anything
The whole issue is that she didn't make an original track. You are allowed to use loops and you are allowed to sample, but you can't just slap loops together like you just got garage band. If she used everything as one shots, or at least moved pieces around and tempo swapped it wouldn't be an issue. With such a basic genre of just large wubs and effects you would imagine you would do everything to stand out
I feel like VT wasn't trying to make a 20+ minute video on the story of Notlo, but more taking the currently hot topic of the situation and linking it to another hot topic right now of sampling... or maybe I am just a Venus Theory meatrider idk I do feel like there should be repurcussions for what Notlo did. At least the label dropping her with maybe going as deep as law intervention from the demo track makers and owners.
tbh nobody needs the phase cancellation test. if you have ears and a brain, you know it's the same thing. no creative artistry went into making any of the changes that leads to sound still coming out the speakers with the test. Venus Theory not calling a spade a spade = lost all respect I might've had for him
If done organically and with creativity, sampling is definitely an art form especially in hip hop. Sample packs are dodgy at best and take the fun out of finding rare records. I’m a DJ however and we should be allowed to create recreational remixes however we choose. Bring on the outrage😏 A skilled DJ / producer can be more talented and innovative than an average musician. I should know, I dabble in both sides.
Ok, serious comment. If you want to hear some great unique modern music for variety, you can't go wrong with Animal Collective. Some parts of their music may take a while to get used to but they're some of the most creative artists I know. Their concerts are incredible too. Also, for an incredible electronic album that I'd describe as a true masterpiece (in my opinion, and I don't say this lightly), check out Deliverance by Culprate. Every time I listen to it on headphones with eyes closed and my full attention, it's like a borderline religious experience. It kind of opened my eyes even more to what can be accomplished in an album.
His video kinda annoyed me. Sampling, like really sampling something, is a real form of art. The not lo situation has nothing to do with real sampling. Thank you for pointing that out. Venus made it sound very negative.
The only reason the song sounded at all different is because somebody from Wakaan mastered it. I think she changed up a few very simple things from the original project file and then I had somebody that was actually good at music master it.
If you can't put together your own drum groove or melody and you build songs entirely out of loops someone else made, what's the point? How could that be fulfilling for anyone
The same way building a lego kit exactly as per the instructions is enjoyable. Though most people probably don't then pretend the lego kit is their original design.
i watched a venus theory video where he was quoting a known incel in a positive manner and elaborating heavily on his thoughts about the quote. think you're a better source for this type of thing tbh
This is a plagiarism case. Words are samples. We put words in certain orders when we write to create something new to convey new stories or ideas. But when you put the words in the same order as War and Peace, you've just stole a previously written book.
This kind of reminds me of Ed Sheerans latest lawsuit that he won for his song 'Shape of You' in the way everyone is framing it. The song got sued because the ' Oh I Oh I Oh I Oh I' in the chorus resembled another song from the same year melodically and phonetically but Ed won the law suit because the whole composition was different it was just that one section that was similar. This is like how everyone is comparing taking a one shot or a singular loop that is used in two different songs in contrast to looking if the whole arrangement and sonic identity of the composition is the same/similar by the use of samples.
I'd say if it's practically the same context and hardly changed, it's less "sampling" and more "covering" or "remaking" if you're using practically the same stems.
The label's the one with the responsibility here. Those tracks need to be off of every platform and her contract needs to be cancelled. She needs to be done. Cos lets be real the whole industry is fighting to keep sony and emi from owning literally everything, and trying to make independent music literally illegal, and this shit is a argument they need.
back in a days, sampling was a very creative process....crate digging was a big part of it, now...kids take ready loops and samples, without any effort whatsoever, and just call it 'sampling'....it ain't...create digging and searching for samples is a lot of fun and also in process you dig so many cool records you were not aware of and music and artist.....people are lazy nowadays and they just looking for quick fix....so that's the state of modern music and art...just compare hiphip from 90s to modern music....well?:)
His viedo is tretched sooo long. It is the f*ing demo track. Also these famous music copyright cases are not the same, they used uncleared sampled and similar stuff. I could make the exact same track as she made with these sample packs, release it and she or any label could not do shit about it because its all samples I bought. Its just not very respectable to operate like this
About Steve Angelo's copied track, it's named "Knas", which in Swedish means "Issue, problem", it used to be a word young people used when they where in a bad situation. This song is made ironically, displaying a problem. Steve and Swedish House Mafia made hundreds of millions of dollars at the time (they had their own 747 jet) with original tracks. Steve had no reason copying a demo track to make more money, imho. Just my thoughts.
Idk, I'd love to explore some actual project files. a different way to learn producing, but of course some might lend a tad too much. But if you're getting caught like she did, and with a.i. detection, why not just roll the dice and let people make a fool out of themselves if they steal it and let people mess with it for educational purposes?
You know I think this should be addressed in the trap producer community as well. Many huge labels just accept melodies from small time producers and then give them little to no credit for the track. At least lex Luger and the other OG's made melodies, this is just exploitation of smaller time artists that want to get exposure. Anyways I feel like the scrutiny is much different from the trap/dubstep communities. Dubstep has a focus around being original and pushing boundaries while trap isn't really about that. As an artist tho, I see this as just lazy, It actually takes more skill to add drums over a loop than to just open up an FLP and call it a day. I can see the argument from both sides, but imo this is just pure an utter laziness. Knxledge has a pretty popular track that is literally a kick drum over a sample. Thing is he used his style and sampling techniques to make the track unique. This producer is doing the literal opposite. I remember when Zomboy was getting shit for using sample packs, but damn this makes zomboy look like a creative genius. -trill
Torally agree with Weaver. Other youtubers. Especially at the end of video, probably don’t know what the h he’s talking about(or super fake person I assume.)
Not to nitpick, but as a Nashville studio rat, I can confidently say that, “change a word, keep a third,” isn’t referring to changing a song just enough to copy it. It’s referring to changing a single word of a song that’s being written, and getting a writer’s credit while having not really added anything of substance to the writing process.
What she did is essentially LESS work, than buying a coloring book, filling it in, and then releasing a page as her own artwork.
I completely agree with your take. It's literally the project file copy thats the problem, not about loops or samples tbh
It is like buying a sound and selling as your own, not like sampling...
@@sophiacristinait’s like hiring all the actors from lord of the rings and remaking lord of the rings.
@@inspir.edmusic great analogy!
yea facts
Hahaha yeah you're exactly right man. These people don't understand that this isn't sampling. To even bring in MF Doom's name or Daft Punk is so dumb. This girl stole demo tracks, she didn't do anything creative, she saw an opportunity to cheat and fast track her career in the hopes no one would find out plain and simple.
The video of Dj Khalid trying to play a guitar is one of the funniest things ever.
Its so annoying how people are changing the narrative. I agree with you Weaver, this is not about sampling an existing song. This is about a fully-fledged song by all rights, having slight alterations added to it and saying its unique, which it clearly isn't
It's not SAMPLING its PLAGIARISM We called her out FOR PLAGIARISM not SAMPLING. This is not a mistake she's done this more than once she's gotten away with this the fact that she pulled a woman card and how hard it is to be a female producer ( it is hard to be a female producer Benn Jordan have a great video on the topic ) while moving the goalpost is slimy on her end. People that defend this probably never gotten their shit stolen by a bigger artist
being a woman is NOT an excuse and hiding behind that is only harming other female producers not being taken seriously... Actually when it is hard, one should try even harder to come up with own stuff and own sounds.
I don't understand people who want to take a whole creation of someone else and claim it as their own. What's the pride in that? Being inspired by others differs from straight plagiarism or copying.
I am not a producer or anything, just a nobody who likes to play with DAW for fun without releasing anything, at least for now. But if I use a sample from a pack, I avoid even opening the demo or project files to avoid the confusion or by accidentally using them in case I one day upload my projects somewhere. I wish the project files were not included because some people don't necessarily understand what they are for and that they can't use them in projects they make public and don't read the license(yep dumb but many don't). I read the licenses, but I didn't know at first what project files were for.
I mostly use presets and sounds but try to come up with my own melodies or at least something original.. loops I try to avoid more and more and one shots etc I add to spice things up. But if I use samples as such, I also say that. I call them puzzles that I only put together in strange order but someone else created the pieces for. I don't want to take any credit whatsoever of things I didn't make. But basically most of the stuff I make is sort of created by others anyway because I didn't create the instrument sounds either. I hope in the future I can make more and more my own sounds beyond one water drum and my vocals, but I doubt I will never be able to create all the instrument sounds I use from scratch :)
This person didn't do this by accident, one time is maybe an accident, but when it happens so many times, no way... One way one could end up using project files by accident is if they only make a common file search for sounds/samples from all the music files they have. But adding a single project file won't still make the whole song sound exactly the same as the demo song. And I don't think she took full responsibility because it was not just about using loops and sampling but clearly copying. She deserved to be called out for it but of course not doxxing or threats or anything like that. Stealing from another artist is low no matter how big they are, but especially when they benefit financially and otherwise from something the original artist is trying to make a living out of.
Thats funny because I’m pretty sure music production doesn’t care if you’re male, female, or a cactus. It still requires the same amount of work. The only thing hard about being a female music producer is producing music 😂
if ur a hot girl producer u have a 50x buff
@@amp4105oh no doubt look at Karra her music is mid af
@@Creator_Veeto_PAEACPbruh read the comments Benn Jordan has a video interviewing female producers. Have you watched the video or you can't read?
The phase cancelling idea at 11:20 would never work. Venus was expecting to play both tracks and hear difference only - that works only if you have exactly the same fundamental frequency with exact same amplitude. Inverting two tracks that are made of the same stems but differ slightly in gain and maybe have one or two different elements would be enough to totally stop cancellation. Mixes are complex frequency bands, and it is very hard to have full song cancelled, even if mixing the same stems. Say, you add one single distorted bass note - it will mess up entire frequency spectrum, and when inverted, you will not hear only that bass. The only result would be very flangy and unpleasant sweeping.
Thank you. I immediately thought the same thing, in fact i shouted it out loud when I was watching the video and he did that because it seemed so baffling to me that this professional musician had no idea how phase cancellation works.
also the concept of even getting these two tracks to line up "time-wise" to enact a phase cancellation can be incredibly difficult after one version has undergone a totally different master bus chain. and yea the unpleasant sweeping of a comb filtered sound.
@@adamkumpmusic exactly, change dynamics and you are done. you'll never match even close. the only thing you can get is actually reverse , doubling the amplitude, as signals are so messed up you start adding up. Maybe a few db drop in some radical cases but i doubt it - more like just a phasing/comb filter.
My thoughts exactly when I watched Venus' video a few days ago. What's the point? He surely knows better. There are so many factors, from the different signal chains to the file format and source he used to compare.. I guess he just needed a 'scientific proof' section just for the sake of it.
I loled when Venus tried to null it like it's some circuss trick to impress children.
At this point, he is more of a "lifestyle" than music production channel.
A response to a response on a topic that you already had a response for, and is 30 minutes long.. You're killing me Weaver
That synth dude that doesn't compare sampling in the right context reminds me of if someone cloned Ricky Tinez...but like dialed way up on the corporate job interview button stats on the cloning vst. Notlo hanging jowels probably has no conscience I mean look at what she subjects her fans to. that's like musical narcissistic abuse 😂. Lol listening to Ron pearlmans dogs mustach Rickey Tinez ass clone guy talking about sampling has a Beato vibe....he definitely should hear burial...and so much of the massive attack unkle dj shadow era even the prodigy and stuff like that we're making genius compositions with samples and like no sample time
This what I'm here for tho
Lmao
@@peteypete1984 did you use a meth psychosis AI to type this?
This is why you subscribe to weaver tho. It's like comforting junk food.
like he usually does with his vids, he ends up presenting a well-thought-out yet inoffensive, gray area take on a topic, which isn't really adequate in this case. not once i heard him say, "yeah, this was a pretty egregious streak of creative plagiarism, intentional or not" which was disappointing
well said
I was always amazed what are the construction kits for in all the packs. Whats the point? 😂 I assume a lot of people do this, ive seen packs containing ONLY construction kits. Thats some low life shit.
He's so bland and boring that it makes me want to kill myself.
He doesn't have the balls to speak his mind and always does the, is this 'topic' wrong or right? Let me know the answer in the comment section.
He's so bland that he managed to appear in big companies' UA-cam channels to promote their shit.
Thanks to Weaver the producer section of UA-cam has some soul to it, the rest are dead people talking.
That’s because it is plagiarism. She took someone else’s idea and used them. That’s plagiarism. She even admitted it.
He’s called Venus theory not Venus fact
The cheaters will always stand by the cheaters....Assembling pre-made loops is not composing..
LMFAO the mf doom callout at the end, im sleep... yeah the boy kc basically sums up the main issue w a lot of these responses, that theyre (intentionally or not) filled with red herrings that just detract from the actual issue
The samples in the sample pack are so distinctive. It’s impossible to not draw comparisons. She def ripped the demo but these sample packs are just songs that have all of their sounds turned into loops. This is just Lego construction of music. Not songwriting.
People are looking at yhe packs and kits themselves and not forst thinking about what they want to make.
Say you make for example kicks and snares from a synthesizer but want more funky rounded harmonics.
Youd have to stitch the body or tail of other one shot drum samples onto them and compress saturate or distort until getting the desired result.
That and rearranging a chord progression and deriving melodies basslines and inflections, it aint exactly writing sheet music but its more improvised then just aligning some loops and calling it a day
I stg the way so many respected people are just giving her a pass makes me feel like I'm living in fuckin bizarro world
The amen break argument hurt to hear. It’s crazy how people perceive things completely different 😂
Amen break is one element. That's like saying an 808 is the same situation. The notlo situation would be like if someone took the stems of Winston's amen brother entire song and assembled them and called it their own.
People still make dubstep is my main takeaway. I guess I shouldn’t talk shit, I still make Industrial like it’s 1992.
Bro step is bigger than ever dude
Using sample packs and sampling are not the same things.
I found your channel just a few days ago from UA-cam recommending it to me because of the Waves drama lol. But this video is such a breath of fresh air to me, I love that you're actively pointing out whenever people are really stretching with their comparisons or making points that really don't have anything to do with copying the demo tracks here. I'm subbing to you for sure
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against PRINCIPALITIES, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.🤔
If this ever made it to a federal court, what she did would likely be seen as copyright infringement based upon prior rulings by the courts.
Yes it falls under the same rules as included DAW sounds which you are prohibited from taking a stock sound, slapping a reverb on it and selling it.
She recreated a demo track unlike Cymatics who openly state they don’t need to be notified for major placements and use the ppl that have those placements as promo. Ghost Syndicate is the DnB sample kings. They have clear terms and the passive exclusion of this information is wild. She did it 4 times this is a trend.
im pretty sure she downloaded the stems and then later on was going thru her projects to find something to release. opened it up and worked on it a little more to make the "finished" song and then released. Venus Theory's flipping the polarity experiment wouldnt work because she probably did do some processing and you have to get them matched up EXACTLY to the millisecond to work correctly.
To take the demo track of the specific samples from the sample pack purchased and add some saturation and extra bump and then put that out as your own, you should be shot in the street, you have no mind for this art or it's creative your only here to steal or mimik anothers creative, your just another fake, maybe try taking up golf
@@kwaddamage8286 if you add an EQ to a sound, and made a single change, the phase inversion wont cancel out, its surprisingly easy to rotate the phase of a. She knew what she was doing when she ripped them off. she didn do this by accident 4 times
@@iamunpossible yeh thats what i was sayin
1 time is more than enough, it says everything about you...any artist worth their weight in anything would never even dream of doing such a thing. Your mind only plots and schemes when you know you're lacking...she's a fraud and a wannabe
The reason us artists are pissed is like me and others that make everything from scratch and do everything ourselves w love don't get the same deals and gigs as this thief!!!
facts! Is BS!
Thanks for actually understanding the situation and not obfuscating the issue and attempting to gaslight everybody like seemingly every other UA-camr and producer.
don't the chainsmokers constantly get sued because they get caught ripping full melodies from other songs/artists, then have to include them in the song credits and royalties?
Everyone defending this shit
"Bro who cares, she got caught using samples/loops the same way "everyone" does, move on".
2 weeks later
"Dude music is so generic and uninspired and the same shit over and over again, its impossible for original artists to get noticed, why is it like this?".
🤦🤦🤦🤦fr
NotLo was not sampling, that’s not even debatable to me. Mr. Bill taking up for her was a little disappointing too.
I absolutely agree that Venus Theory should've structured his video differently, and not done the whole; "but, what do you think?" at the end.
I get that it drives engagement, but in this case there really is no grey area as to what happened.
Hes explaining common sense music production stuff like hes talking to a 70 year old Farmer that doesn't know what a computer is... 🤣
His response is so absurd. If he has to do a phase cancellation then he’s missing the point.
yeah i thought that was a weird point of focus as well, phase cancellation is easy to circumvent by means of processing too
Actually, he is not.
He is merely expanding upon the issue to 1)Test whether it was merely copied, and 2)To raise the question of how far can sampling go before losing atistic integrity.
He wasn't here to spoonfeed answer but raise thoughtful questions for us to decide for ourselves.
@@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios obviously there are minor changes. Phase cancellation is pointless- he’s missing the point. Those extremely minor changes shouldn’t be enough to pass it on as your own even if they would be allowed to.. the complete lack of originality is just complete garbage. The person should be labeled spam, not an artist
I agree. Nobody cares if the tracks don't cancel out because there's a few more kicks in the notlo version. That doesn't make it her track. This is why the dubstep genre is filled with generic garbage.
@@sonicpulp9417 Actually, you keep stating that he is "Missing the Point". However your arguments actually miss a major fundamental point, in that we all... All of us share different values, and principles... Not merely from a morality standpoint... but our tastes in art. And just like on person may prefer more or less salt, pepper, or any other ingredient within their dish... The chef is the one who is seasoning it to their taste.
One or many may decide that they do not like a dish, an entire menu, or a mass rejection may cause the restaurant to shut down. But that does not mean that the chef is wrong, so long as they did not steal the recipe from another chef. Chefs are oft inspired by one another, but to object to how much or little one is inspired by another is "Subjective".
The "Subjectivity" is the larger matter in question. His argument was that she did not steal the piece (proven via a phase cancellation). However, beyond that... Everything becomes a slippery slope, as it is all relegated to the perspectives of the individuals and what our views are regarding these matters.
This is not a matter of right or wrong. It is far more nuanced. Therefore, getting the 1 and only "sole" objective piece out of the way was critical to his argument... which was... "Did she steal it?"
...Because if she didn't, then we are back into a world of ever-compounding loops, and the conflicts which arise from them.
I´m a producer since 2004 and have seen the rise in Samplepacks with Loops and Construction Kits. Back in the day, using loops without heavily editing/rearranging them was looked down upon as a lack of creativity and skill. NotLo plain and simple stole multiple demo tracks and when she got exposed, she called it "Sampling", thereby disrespecting incredible artists like 9th Wonder, Dilla, Primo or Alchemist.
Okay, I'm back. I actually really like your channel. I wanted to hate you after this but realized you're one of the better producer UA-camrs, because it's really informative and sometimes funny. This was the first video of yours I saw and it really bothered me as a new producer, because I paid $400 for yearly ultimate access to splice, then discovered all these controversies surrounding people using beats.... from Splice. And honestly? It pissed me off.
I spent money on this service, but I can't use it....?
However, I also understand how frustrating it would be if someone stole one of my tracks. I made something really cool the other night using samples, but it is literally night and day from the original. There's no way I would get busted for the beat police and it is DOPE! I haven't heard anything like it, so naturally I too would be frustrated if someone stole this from me. However, I will say this - there are people outright "stealing" from others as documented in other episodes of your show (Palace), then there are these sample packs. I think, from a moral point of view - if you have sold your loop pack for use, you should in theory be disqualified from being a victim to your samples being used. That's what really frustrates me, as a new user and a new new super new producer. Because we're being misled about the truth (newbies using Splice).
The song Notlo made, kind of sucked. It wasn't that good. I think that's the extent to which she should be punished - her music suffers as a consequence of being lazy.
Sorry to talk about Notlo, but somehow your show sucked me in after you pissed me off.
I agree with you. Look at the end of the day it comes down to integrity right? What does it say about an artist that isn't creative enough to come up with their own musical ideas and should that artist have the spotlight over someone who does? Easy answer is fuck no.
5:03 “everything is a copy of a copy of a copy” that was like a dejavú moment in this rabbit hole! Like we all been there . On a different universe we were all producing nocturna sample pack, hallucination effect, twitter expose, UA-cam reactions, etc it’s like dubstep inception 🐇
except that's retarded and not true. inspirtion comes from piecing things together in a NEW FUCKING WAY.
That last guy doesn't know what's going on LOL. He like that guy from the meme that said "I just came here"
Novice beatmakers have been selling beats made directly from construction kits for decades...they always get found out by their customer base and peers, then you would never hear from them again.
I like that statement you made (Summarised) It’s not all about having amazing musical talent.. But about creating something that makes people feel... Without blatantly ripping something off.. I’m a classical piano player, but it’s very rare that I find myself playing classical music into a dance track that I’m writing.. And ya.. I’m a no one in the dance music industry, but often play with large orchestras.. Point being.. If you write it, and it makes you feel good inside.. At least you can hold your head up..
The state of modern electronic based music . I’m not a country music fan but I respect that it takes people writing songs, Playing instruments , and performing said songs. Same for (most) rock music. EDM/HipHop has turned into a low barrier to entry game 😢
ai isn’t gonna take our jobs, notlo is gonna take our jobs
Weird, I watched this video just yesterday. Now Weaver is reacting to it.
Super glad I subbed to this channel. Rock out at NAMM this year, my Guy 🙌🏾
She didn't even acknowledge the fact that they sound eerily similar. If it's some coincidence don't you think she would have mentioned it? She didn't, all her response was about was her admitting she uses samples. Pretty obvious that she did in fact used the demo track.
By the definition sampling is using part of another song, while using sample is not sampling. throwing a kick sample into your playlist (or a loop) is not sampling. People use this term wrong, and you are right.
You're the best spoke person in the producer community. Love ya stuff
This is so much better than Venus Theory's video which I had seen before, thanks!
Can't call yourself a producer if all you're doing is dragging lego blocks into a daw + arranging and exporting.
tracker producers punching air rn
I love weaver beats.
Whats the difference between a copy and an homage?
Also
What if you “cover” aka re-create what you want to sample and then sample it.
What about that.
Ive sampled myself before 😊
I also dont release my music anymore,
Im in training mode for now.
What about soldier boy using the stock loops/somg for “crank that” from Garage Band, how does that compare for for folks? See Jehfree (now jehfslaps?) original video that went viral.
I have been in Korea for a while now, and so many Korean songs copy melody’s from other songs. It does my head in.
It's completely different from legit sampling, however it's the ugly byproduct of loops. I see sampling as taking bits and pieces from either other works or things that you've made and manipulating them into something else for use somewhere else. And though that should apply just the same to loops, it really doesn't seem to carry over the same amount...it just seems like people see loops as big building blocks as opposed to big blocks made of smaller blocks that can be used to make a completely new shape. There's just this really narrow view of loops I feel, an' I don't get how any musician could be happy putting their name on something they put minimal effort into
Venus ain't getting the memo🤦🏽♂️he's not understanding smh.
at the beginning (80s, maybe early 90s) music and sound libs where used just to "sketch" for clients and/or collaborators, it got out of hand so hard, donuts like this girl just add another lib loop on top of it and then sell it as their art, the concept of samplig is wonderful, its one of the new era musical instruments, the capability of taking a SAMPLE of your auditive experience and manipulate it to create more coplex scenarios is just genius, just dont fall to the easy dark side
Because people aren't getting into music anymore because of the music they're doing it because they hope they can get some kind of online clout.
Samples I use in my projects are basic samples that anyone can make but I use to save time on my work flow. So like risers, sweeps, instrumental one shots like chimes or orchestral drums. Other than that I make everything on my own using midi. The one thing I wish I had an artist to work with is vocal samples. Finding one shot vocal samples or vocal swells on splice is a bitch and a half because they're either over used or not what I'm looking for.
Bro its amazing how ignorant people are in the music space… you have some great takes though. Its blatant disrespect to call just using a loop throwing new drums on it, etc to call it “sampling”. 😂😂😂 Totally agree wit you on that my guy. Keep exposing these clowns. I’m glad i just subscribed to your channel. 🤙🏻
Yeah totally agree with your take, I was also rather frustrated with the Venus Theory video since I do like to use chord loops from splice to build a track around and found the comparison totally disingenuous. I've heard other tracks by producers using the same loops and the result is something entirely different, that's the point, doing something creative around the loop or sample. And it really has nothing to do with this NotLo behaviour.
Comparing two things isn’t saying they are the same. Seems like so many people here missed the point of VT’s comparisons. VT wasn’t making an opinion statement, he was laying out examples across the full range of sample use; and letting us make our own decision.
What kind of label would accept this? Only a shady one that doesn't vet their artists.
honestly that fact that venus theory didn’t outright condemn this behavior and call it what it is (theft) made me lose a ton of respect for him
Me to
Conclusion: NotLo is MF DOOM
The fact that liquid stranger’s label Wakaan released one of these songs is a bit mind blowing to a degree. Im sure he wasnt aware until all of this came out, but im surprised he hasnt said anything
"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."
The whole issue is that she didn't make an original track. You are allowed to use loops and you are allowed to sample, but you can't just slap loops together like you just got garage band. If she used everything as one shots, or at least moved pieces around and tempo swapped it wouldn't be an issue. With such a basic genre of just large wubs and effects you would imagine you would do everything to stand out
I feel like if she had just said "remix" this would have all gone away.
Using just my eyeballs those waveforms are virtually identical!
100% correct on the disrespect to sampling part
I totally get what you're trying to say. it's not sampling nor using loops. it's just a modified demo track...
Ahh! weaver therapy, thanks
I feel like VT wasn't trying to make a 20+ minute video on the story of Notlo, but more taking the currently hot topic of the situation and linking it to another hot topic right now of sampling... or maybe I am just a Venus Theory meatrider idk
I do feel like there should be repurcussions for what Notlo did. At least the label dropping her with maybe going as deep as law intervention from the demo track makers and owners.
tbh nobody needs the phase cancellation test. if you have ears and a brain, you know it's the same thing. no creative artistry went into making any of the changes that leads to sound still coming out the speakers with the test. Venus Theory not calling a spade a spade = lost all respect I might've had for him
If done organically and with creativity, sampling is definitely an art form especially in hip hop. Sample packs are dodgy at best and take the fun out of finding rare records. I’m a DJ however and we should be allowed to create recreational remixes however we choose. Bring on the outrage😏 A skilled DJ / producer can be more talented and innovative than an average musician. I should know, I dabble in both sides.
Great video, love the channel man!
I hate when people act like using a sample pack and using a sample you found through another song is the same thing
Ok, serious comment. If you want to hear some great unique modern music for variety, you can't go wrong with Animal Collective. Some parts of their music may take a while to get used to but they're some of the most creative artists I know. Their concerts are incredible too.
Also, for an incredible electronic album that I'd describe as a true masterpiece (in my opinion, and I don't say this lightly), check out Deliverance by Culprate. Every time I listen to it on headphones with eyes closed and my full attention, it's like a borderline religious experience. It kind of opened my eyes even more to what can be accomplished in an album.
His video kinda annoyed me. Sampling, like really sampling something, is a real form of art. The not lo situation has nothing to do with real sampling. Thank you for pointing that out. Venus made it sound very negative.
5:52 respect 💯
Weaver beats is a national treasure 😭
The only reason the song sounded at all different is because somebody from Wakaan mastered it. I think she changed up a few very simple things from the original project file and then I had somebody that was actually good at music master it.
6:03 I couldn't agree more.
Thank you for existing on this planet...
how did a major label not clear the legals. She knew what she was doing. straight rip.
If you can't put together your own drum groove or melody and you build songs entirely out of loops someone else made, what's the point? How could that be fulfilling for anyone
The same way building a lego kit exactly as per the instructions is enjoyable. Though most people probably don't then pretend the lego kit is their original design.
@@worksofein6449this is more like assembling a jigsaw made from only 6 pieces
people should start using Ft. GhostSyndicate or Ft. Splice in their track titles when they rely so heavily on someone elses production
i watched a venus theory video where he was quoting a known incel in a positive manner and elaborating heavily on his thoughts about the quote. think you're a better source for this type of thing tbh
This is a plagiarism case. Words are samples. We put words in certain orders when we write to create something new to convey new stories or ideas. But when you put the words in the same order as War and Peace, you've just stole a previously written book.
I don't get it. Imagine going - yeah I used a construction pack! What is going on
This kind of reminds me of Ed Sheerans latest lawsuit that he won for his song 'Shape of You' in the way everyone is framing it. The song got sued because the ' Oh I Oh I Oh I Oh I' in the chorus resembled another song from the same year melodically and phonetically but Ed won the law suit because the whole composition was different it was just that one section that was similar. This is like how everyone is comparing taking a one shot or a singular loop that is used in two different songs in contrast to looking if the whole arrangement and sonic identity of the composition is the same/similar by the use of samples.
I'd say if it's practically the same context and hardly changed, it's less "sampling" and more "covering" or "remaking" if you're using practically the same stems.
The label's the one with the responsibility here. Those tracks need to be off of every platform and her contract needs to be cancelled. She needs to be done.
Cos lets be real the whole industry is fighting to keep sony and emi from owning literally everything, and trying to make independent music literally illegal, and this shit is a argument they need.
back in a days, sampling was a very creative process....crate digging was a big part of it, now...kids take ready loops and samples, without any effort whatsoever, and just call it 'sampling'....it ain't...create digging and searching for samples is a lot of fun and also in process you dig so many cool records you were not aware of and music and artist.....people are lazy nowadays and they just looking for quick fix....so that's the state of modern music and art...just compare hiphip from 90s to modern music....well?:)
Venus may have copied your phase cancellation idea, but he used Reaper , so this makes it OK :)
I thought that said Dinosaurs are funding your NAMM 2023 trip
Is there anything more dystopian than people using pre-made things anyway???
His viedo is tretched sooo long. It is the f*ing demo track. Also these famous music copyright cases are not the same, they used uncleared sampled and similar stuff. I could make the exact same track as she made with these sample packs, release it and she or any label could not do shit about it because its all samples I bought. Its just not very respectable to operate like this
About Steve Angelo's copied track, it's named "Knas", which in Swedish means "Issue, problem", it used to be a word young people used when they where in a bad situation. This song is made ironically, displaying a problem. Steve and Swedish House Mafia made hundreds of millions of dollars at the time (they had their own 747 jet) with original tracks. Steve had no reason copying a demo track to make more money, imho. Just my thoughts.
thats blatant copyrighting and pisstaking 😂😂😂😂😂😂
So it's come to "is it sounding different enough?" - when usually the question has been "is it sounding similar enough" when it came to plagiarism
Idk, I'd love to explore some actual project files. a different way to learn producing, but of course some might lend a tad too much. But if you're getting caught like she did, and with a.i. detection, why not just roll the dice and let people make a fool out of themselves if they steal it and let people mess with it for educational purposes?
Good point 👉
that's true that's true
You know I think this should be addressed in the trap producer community as well. Many huge labels just accept melodies from small time producers and then give them little to no credit for the track. At least lex Luger and the other OG's made melodies, this is just exploitation of smaller time artists that want to get exposure.
Anyways I feel like the scrutiny is much different from the trap/dubstep communities. Dubstep has a focus around being original and pushing boundaries while trap isn't really about that. As an artist tho, I see this as just lazy, It actually takes more skill to add drums over a loop than to just open up an FLP and call it a day. I can see the argument from both sides, but imo this is just pure an utter laziness. Knxledge has a pretty popular track that is literally a kick drum over a sample. Thing is he used his style and sampling techniques to make the track unique. This producer is doing the literal opposite. I remember when Zomboy was getting shit for using sample packs, but damn this makes zomboy look like a creative genius.
-trill
Exactly lol
Torally agree with Weaver. Other youtubers. Especially at the end of video, probably don’t know what the h he’s talking about(or super fake person I assume.)
Not to nitpick, but as a Nashville studio rat, I can confidently say that, “change a word, keep a third,” isn’t referring to changing a song just enough to copy it. It’s referring to changing a single word of a song that’s being written, and getting a writer’s credit while having not really added anything of substance to the writing process.