The "Deeply underestimated" F-104 after it proceeds to destroy half of my team in the first 3 minutes and then proceed to run for the rest of the match:
Playing that BR bracket against (or even alongside) these things will quickly disabuse people of that notion, as they are everywhere and incredibly frustrating to put down if they don’t want to fight.
@@TimsVariety You do not need to turn if you get them on the first pass. People often forget that. ;) I totally agree that sometimes people really underestimate the F-104. I am always a bit paranoid when I play against them, often flying far slower planes.
You know it's real important to listen when there's a swear in a Tim's Variety vid! And with the spotting system the way it is sometimes, and r60s hiding in every cloud, it's true.
@@Hadgerz trust, I don’t ever hear a missile since that air superiority update rolled out. I only hear them a couple of meters away when they impact the plane. But yeah I definitely agree
What a wonderful coincidence. I just started using this yesterday bc I have a few planes I`ve yet to spade, and also bc it is suitable for unlocking my strike lineup at tier 6. Always a good time when Tim uploads.
Just unlocked and bought recently, and your guide was exactly what i assumed, especially grinding from stock with no missiles. Patience is key, go in for a rear strike and get out. Hopefully i can make this work lol
I remember this plane. I got my first missile kill with it, and my favorite prey was A-10s lol. Also, loved using boom and zoom tactics and vulture tactics with this one.
I’ve had luck energy fighting with this plane as well, the air brake allows you too whip the plane around easily in a stall, and the flaps a also really effective at low speeds.
I think the Lightning(s) can challenge it, in every way on its BR! Tough i honestly only played the export ones, and did not even bother with this part/line of the tech-tree after the P-80
I haven't gotten to the F-104 in the US tree yet, but I can't wait TBH. I already got to the F-16 in the Italian air tree, or as I like to call it, "how I learned to stop turn-fighting and love the F-104". If the MiG-21 is the AK of the skies, then IMO the F-104 is the FAL of planes.
Something i think people don't realise about the 104 (in WT at least?) is it's insane glide performance You can straight up run out of fuel 10+km from your airbase and as long as you were flying over 1000kph you can almost certainly glide back and land with still a decent amount of speed
I have a moderate bit of query here. The Lightning F6 originally had a higher rating - but is now 9.3 From memory, a low level drag race was an even heat, but the lightning beats the F104 in all other areas. That includes climb, speed, ceiling and generally flight envelope. Maybe the lightning needs a re-review at the now lower BR/Tier..
Right?!?! Normally January is a real shit month on youtube, super low views/subs/etc , but for whatever reason the channel took off last month. We'll see what happens in Feb.
I fell in love with the F-104A almost immediately, I was using the F9F at 8.0 to grind for the F-104 and once I unlocked it it took me a few matches to really hone in the play style. What I do is I figured out that with the speed you have with the f104 you can hold a 10° climb at full afterburner and wait like maybe a minute or two, and you'll already be behind the enemy. If you turn off the radar it will make you super sneaky and get those aim 9b kills even at higher BRs against opponents with flares and RWRs.
Second "good" jet i got after the A-4B. Really struggled with it as theyd just introduced the SU25 at 9.7 .... Yeah you can imagine. Once I've learned how to use it and avoid all-aspect missiles, its really fun! Dart gang 🤟🏻🤟🏻
You can go for the head-on prime your aim9b wait for the enemy to launch an all aspect and your missile should be able to lock their missile leaving you free to take a shot with the rotary cannon. It's pretty usefull for dealing with any all aspect missile and invaluable for anything without countermeasures.
I Really do enjoy the F-104a I find taking head-ons with A-10’s and other planes with all aspect missiles can work REALLY well, just use an aim9b when they shoot their aim9L and since they were expecting a free kill they rarely expect the fusillade of 20mm rounds that follows.
Always fun to see these in ground RB. They never do anything other than kill helicopters or other planes, and just zoom back and forth above the battlefield at Mach yes in the meantime.
A historically important plane but with a shameful past that killed several promising and superior rival designs. RIP Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger and Saunders-Roe SR.177.
The F-104 is good for capturing airfields immediately after the start of a battle (arcade mode). Just quickly down, touch the airfield at 500 km/h and return to your favorite 1200 km/h with afterburner. Good chance to runaway unpunished.
Best way i play it is sit on the side of the map and wait for someone to get into a scrap. If you boom through at mach 1 it doesnt matter if theyre a mig 21. By the time they turn to engage they dumped their speed and youre long gone
The radar was for finding targets in low visibility environments, and to assist with gunnery. In War Thunder, the search and track may be useful in the clouds, but if your opponent has a radar warning receiver, locking on will let the cat out of the bag. My question is: Does the radar help with accuracy when using that Vulcan 20mm cannon?
Haven't played the 104 in a while but I believe the radar gun site tells you distance to the target which is only useful in sim. More advanced planes have 'EEGS' (Enhanced Envelope Gun Site.. whatever that means.. ) which gives you a lead indicator for guns.
I got the F-1104A recently, and I was so excited, but I always get upteired. I haven’t played a single game (in my 50+ with the star fighter) where I didn’t see a 10.3 mig 21, mig 23, F5C, or 10.0 F4C, or A10A. I just get missiled from 5 km out, I can sometimes kill the engine and doge ir missiles, but still it’s annoying, and some radar missiles get me practically without fail. And I can never get my guns on target (skill issiue ik) since it’s turn time is ass at speed. And I’ve fired the missiles at .5 km range 10s of times and never gotten a kill. I was so shocked when you killed a sea vixen bc that was 8.7 and I’d never seen one in the starfighter since I always without fail get upteired to premium MiG spam (and F5C spam)
Reminder for newer players you can use the Aim9b's in all aspect against incoming missiles this will stupify Mig21s/Su25 players in a head-on who will likely see you as a free kill......this generates salt oh and it works for any rear aspect missile made grinding something like the F105 a hell of a lot more enjoyable having 4 Aim9's.
This plane is a mixed bag for me. The matchmaker is terrible, and this plane is really bad at getting actual kills. You really just line up your shot, hope for the best, and then there's a 5% chance you get a kill. But it also dies way less because you can (and should) play so passively. I don't play it a lot anymore, just because it gets money and research so slowly, but I do still kind of enjoy flying it.
This plane is absolutely hilarious because really, the only good things it has going for it are its speed, the Vulcan, and decent ER (albeit it cant turn). ...but just because it's so damn fast at 9.3, that's all it needs lmao. It reallyyyyy should go up in BR so it isn't facing B-57s and MiG-15s, but BR compression.... (also, the F-104 is now faster than the MiG-21 thanks to a semi recent update which increased its top speed by about 100 kph)
Yeah ... its a topic beyond the scope of a vehicle review, but subsonic gunslinger jets from the end of the 1940s shouldn't be facing stuff like this ... like, ever ...
The wing rip speed is about 1500 km/h which is about 300 higher than the other 9.3 planes. This plus the high acceleration means you can never catch it without missiles. It's miserable to fight against
"Deeply Underestimated", I fear this thing like my life depends on it...because it usually does. At 9.3 this thing is nuts in a downtier and can hold its own in an uptier. I got it last month, very quickly spaded it with a 3:1 k/d, and hated myself for it because it felt like seal clubbing. Plane is nuts and anyone who thinks they can simply push it around is in for a rude awakening. (The F104J on the other hand....one of the worst planes I've ever had the displeasure of flying and I pity anyone unfortunate enough to be stock grinding that one.)
This plane is a plague. 9.3 is a cursed br and the 104 is only a standout in the sense that its not fun to play against AND not fun to play yourself, in both uptiers and downtiers.
It sure is fun trying to uhh... Do literally anything to this thing while flying an 8.3 gunslinger. Ty gaijin for those godsent upteirs pitting a subsonic jet against a couple of lightnings and/or starfighters
I am struggling with it, since it has no counter measures and every other jet does and has missiles, I can only manage like 1 kill a match ussually with it
Hi Tim, you are right with this plane ans it is very fun when we are not playing against 10.3 planes...but it happens quite often as usual. When will they fix this br thing in this game ? 😢
5:00 actually the mig21 is slower! At least at sea level! Mig 21s can dive on you if you're going like only 1200-1300, but they rip any faster. The F-104 can go 1400 at sea level which is PAST the Mig's rip speed!!! The F-104 is kinda crazy considering you can run from any aircraft, even those in a full upteir.
You are wrong about the 104 speed Mig21's rip at 1365, and ever since the f104 buff in july 2023, theyve been able to go past 1450. Its also faster than the lightnings now (at deck speeds. The mig21 is ever so slightly faster at super high alts like 10km+)
Playing this thing now is horrible. I played like 50 battles or so and all i got was 10.0 or 10.3. I only got like 1 9.3 battle and not a single one lower. On br's i'm getting thrown into its speed is not enough of an advantage anymore.
i can only speak for the f104g and mig21mf and theyre about the same on sea level, the f104 is a good bit faster at higher altitude but radar missiles lol
The most broken plane in the entire game I'm 41/0 in this thing with over 80%w/r and not even spaded cause no premium, I can't finish the grind on it because it's so braindead OP it's just not fun.
turn off yer damn radar when you don't have radar missiles, and even when you do, only turn it on when you want to use them. You don't want to ping their rwr.
The "Deeply underestimated" F-104 after it proceeds to destroy half of my team in the first 3 minutes and then proceed to run for the rest of the match:
A lot of folks out there seem to think that any plane that isn't a turnfighter is an automatic strugglebus.
They are, of course, wrong.
Playing that BR bracket against (or even alongside) these things will quickly disabuse people of that notion, as they are everywhere and incredibly frustrating to put down if they don’t want to fight.
If you can p47 correctly do the exact same thing in an f104 you'll wreck
@@TimsVariety You do not need to turn if you get them on the first pass. People often forget that. ;)
I totally agree that sometimes people really underestimate the F-104. I am always a bit paranoid when I play against them, often flying far slower planes.
JUST LIKE THE f4c, every single noob who says the f4c is bad just steal bases in it and die to all aspects bc they fly so low@@TimsVariety
"Landing the Starfighter takes practice..."
The Luftwaffe could have told you that !
That "Get the FUCK OUT!" tho XDD
You know it's real important to listen when there's a swear in a Tim's Variety vid!
And with the spotting system the way it is sometimes, and r60s hiding in every cloud, it's true.
@@Hadgerz trust, I don’t ever hear a missile since that air superiority update rolled out. I only hear them a couple of meters away when they impact the plane. But yeah I definitely agree
Hi Tim! Thank you for this vid, 104 is awesome.
Wanna know how to get a free 104? Buy a patch of land in Germany and wait…
Hello Tim!
Thats the F-104G ;-)
cannot believe tim swore...gonna cry for 30 minutes now (good review btw)
What a wonderful coincidence. I just started using this yesterday bc I have a few planes I`ve yet to spade, and also bc it is suitable for unlocking my strike lineup at tier 6. Always a good time when Tim uploads.
Just unlocked and bought recently, and your guide was exactly what i assumed, especially grinding from stock with no missiles. Patience is key, go in for a rear strike and get out. Hopefully i can make this work lol
Practice and patience. o7
A great reminder that I wanted to use the F-104 forever ago, but I never got around to it! Great review as always! ♥
Head-on with stealth ammo can catch people off guard and thanks to Vulcan you get quite an easy aim with not much of bullet drop
I can't tell you why but I love this plane even if I hate to fly it. The engine howl is awesome too when you come to land iirc.
This is my favorite plane in the whole game, massive engine and an M61A1 at 9.3 is beautiful
This thing was in design just 10 years after the Me-262. Technology development was at an absolutely breakneck pace back then wtf
The F-104A is one of the BEST aircraft at 9.3… I may or may not have grinded the Italian Starfighters lmao
Ok cool, which would you recommond ?
Pro F-104 tip, for models without flares, use your AIM-9Bs to shoot at all aspect missles on things like A10s to survive an accidental headon
Could have probably mentioned the F-104C and it's differences in this video since they're so similar, otherwise great video
Imagine the F104A if Gaijin was able to incorporate long range strategic bombers, would be a nightmare!!!
I remember this plane. I got my first missile kill with it, and my favorite prey was A-10s lol. Also, loved using boom and zoom tactics and vulture tactics with this one.
I’ve had luck energy fighting with this plane as well, the air brake allows you too whip the plane around easily in a stall, and the flaps a also really effective at low speeds.
FINALLY I JUST ULOCKED THE PLANE I NEED AGUIDE
Its a little known fact that if a warthunder player meditates and focuses on a plane hard enough, a Tim's Variety review will suddenly appear.....
@@TimsVariety guide works btw
Been waiting for this one for a while now, thanks Tim
I think the Lightning(s) can challenge it, in every way on its BR!
Tough i honestly only played the export ones, and did not even bother with this part/line of the tech-tree after the P-80
Ahh the famed Attack Pencil, got the Japanese version and oh man it sucks against planes at that BR...
Also *"Get the FUCK OUT"* made my day xD
Ive also got a review of the F-104J up from fairly recently. :-)
I haven't gotten to the F-104 in the US tree yet, but I can't wait TBH. I already got to the F-16 in the Italian air tree, or as I like to call it, "how I learned to stop turn-fighting and love the F-104". If the MiG-21 is the AK of the skies, then IMO the F-104 is the FAL of planes.
Something i think people don't realise about the 104 (in WT at least?) is it's insane glide performance
You can straight up run out of fuel 10+km from your airbase and as long as you were flying over 1000kph you can almost certainly glide back and land with still a decent amount of speed
And in irl it was horrible at it
Gaijin is at it again😂
I have a moderate bit of query here. The Lightning F6 originally had a higher rating - but is now 9.3
From memory, a low level drag race was an even heat, but the lightning beats the F104 in all other areas. That includes climb, speed, ceiling and generally flight envelope.
Maybe the lightning needs a re-review at the now lower BR/Tier..
far less usable than the 104 however
Dope plane, also has a nice Canadian skin. Nice review!
I swear you were below 50k just a month ago? 8k in one month? Good shit man
Right?!?!
Normally January is a real shit month on youtube, super low views/subs/etc , but for whatever reason the channel took off last month. We'll see what happens in Feb.
I fell in love with the F-104A almost immediately, I was using the F9F at 8.0 to grind for the F-104 and once I unlocked it it took me a few matches to really hone in the play style. What I do is I figured out that with the speed you have with the f104 you can hold a 10° climb at full afterburner and wait like maybe a minute or two, and you'll already be behind the enemy. If you turn off the radar it will make you super sneaky and get those aim 9b kills even at higher BRs against opponents with flares and RWRs.
Second "good" jet i got after the A-4B. Really struggled with it as theyd just introduced the SU25 at 9.7 .... Yeah you can imagine.
Once I've learned how to use it and avoid all-aspect missiles, its really fun! Dart gang 🤟🏻🤟🏻
You can go for the head-on prime your aim9b wait for the enemy to launch an all aspect and your missile should be able to lock their missile leaving you free to take a shot with the rotary cannon. It's pretty usefull for dealing with any all aspect missile and invaluable for anything without countermeasures.
I Really do enjoy the F-104a I find taking head-ons with A-10’s and other planes with all aspect missiles can work REALLY well, just use an aim9b when they shoot their aim9L and since they were expecting a free kill they rarely expect the fusillade of 20mm rounds that follows.
Always fun to see these in ground RB.
They never do anything other than kill helicopters or other planes, and just zoom back and forth above the battlefield at Mach yes in the meantime.
A historically important plane but with a shameful past that killed several promising and superior rival designs. RIP Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger and Saunders-Roe SR.177.
enjoyed the review!
I love the Starfighters, it really does feel like a missile and anything with the Vulcan is fun
Starfighter my beloved
Got an Ace game just yesterday in it, also last man standing against 3!
Capable plane
Amazing.
Im in the Chinese tree and this is my Next plane.
Thx so much
Aka, the pain pencil!
Great video, keep it up Tim
we honestly should get the nuclear ata missiles the F104 could carry
And it wouldn't be that OP: fixed range/fuze distance, nuke marker on the screen(or not), and only 1 mile radius
NASA is still using privately owned Starfighters for testing!
The company is called... Starfighters, and they are mostly ex Italian 104s
F-104A is awesome, i even once got an ace with it
The F-104 is good for capturing airfields immediately after the start of a battle (arcade mode). Just quickly down, touch the airfield at 500 km/h and return to your favorite 1200 km/h with afterburner. Good chance to runaway unpunished.
Best way i play it is sit on the side of the map and wait for someone to get into a scrap. If you boom through at mach 1 it doesnt matter if theyre a mig 21. By the time they turn to engage they dumped their speed and youre long gone
The radar was for finding targets in low visibility environments, and to assist with gunnery. In War Thunder, the search and track may be useful in the clouds, but if your opponent has a radar warning receiver, locking on will let the cat out of the bag. My question is:
Does the radar help with accuracy when using that Vulcan 20mm cannon?
Haven't played the 104 in a while but I believe the radar gun site tells you distance to the target which is only useful in sim.
More advanced planes have 'EEGS' (Enhanced Envelope Gun Site.. whatever that means.. ) which gives you a lead indicator for guns.
It doesn’t turn.
It doesn’t shoot.
But it simply…
Speed
It doesn't shoot?
@@r3tr0a82 it must simply….
Fast
@@felion_ agreed
The F104 family was the bane of my existence using the SAAB 105 to grind
Man i wish they just add a Intercepterversion of the yak 28 that would be flown similar to a f104
now I finally know why these things where food for me when I played the mig 21 s it just felt like they could never see the missiles.
F-104 my beloved
I use a similar tactic with the F8u. Get about 10,000 km up, cut engine to 0 cand cruise till i find someone not expecting me
I got the F-1104A recently, and I was so excited, but I always get upteired. I haven’t played a single game (in my 50+ with the star fighter) where I didn’t see a 10.3 mig 21, mig 23, F5C, or 10.0 F4C, or A10A. I just get missiled from 5 km out, I can sometimes kill the engine and doge ir missiles, but still it’s annoying, and some radar missiles get me practically without fail. And I can never get my guns on target (skill issiue ik) since it’s turn time is ass at speed. And I’ve fired the missiles at .5 km range 10s of times and never gotten a kill. I was so shocked when you killed a sea vixen bc that was 8.7 and I’d never seen one in the starfighter since I always without fail get upteired to premium MiG spam (and F5C spam)
First time I think I've heard you swear :O Learning not to chase F-104's felt like being a dog learning not to chase cars :P
Reminder for newer players you can use the Aim9b's in all aspect against incoming missiles this will stupify Mig21s/Su25 players in a head-on who will likely see you as a free kill......this generates salt oh and it works for any rear aspect missile made grinding something like the F105 a hell of a lot more enjoyable having 4 Aim9's.
As of the new br changes this and the C are awesome
This is the best thing I ever saw.
5:16 hey look that's me
o7
What @Tim's Variety you don't like how cement trucks fly 😉
I love when people get mad at me for focusing down these planes with Missiles. As if that isn't the only way to kill it.
My favorite aircraft in war thunder.
Better then the phantom.
This plane is a mixed bag for me. The matchmaker is terrible, and this plane is really bad at getting actual kills. You really just line up your shot, hope for the best, and then there's a 5% chance you get a kill. But it also dies way less because you can (and should) play so passively. I don't play it a lot anymore, just because it gets money and research so slowly, but I do still kind of enjoy flying it.
6:30 the only countermeasure is its speed
This plane is absolutely hilarious because really, the only good things it has going for it are its speed, the Vulcan, and decent ER (albeit it cant turn).
...but just because it's so damn fast at 9.3, that's all it needs lmao. It reallyyyyy should go up in BR so it isn't facing B-57s and MiG-15s, but BR compression....
(also, the F-104 is now faster than the MiG-21 thanks to a semi recent update which increased its top speed by about 100 kph)
Yeah ... its a topic beyond the scope of a vehicle review, but subsonic gunslinger jets from the end of the 1940s shouldn't be facing stuff like this ... like, ever ...
The wing rip speed is about 1500 km/h which is about 300 higher than the other 9.3 planes. This plus the high acceleration means you can never catch it without missiles. It's miserable to fight against
"Deeply Underestimated", I fear this thing like my life depends on it...because it usually does. At 9.3 this thing is nuts in a downtier and can hold its own in an uptier.
I got it last month, very quickly spaded it with a 3:1 k/d, and hated myself for it because it felt like seal clubbing.
Plane is nuts and anyone who thinks they can simply push it around is in for a rude awakening.
(The F104J on the other hand....one of the worst planes I've ever had the displeasure of flying and I pity anyone unfortunate enough to be stock grinding that one.)
I have a hard time hitting with the Vulcan on this one. Not only that, whenever I do hit, I find the damage rarely affects my target
Mig 21S does hard counter this. I specifically look for f 104s and t-2's. A-10s are my worst enemy though. AIM 9Ls are insane in down tiers.
I'm still new to Jets flying 7.0 to 8.7 so far and at 8.7 all I hear all battle are Sonic booms from these guys going left and right😂
ty
This plane is a plague. 9.3 is a cursed br and the 104 is only a standout in the sense that its not fun to play against AND not fun to play yourself, in both uptiers and downtiers.
It sure is fun trying to uhh... Do literally anything to this thing while flying an 8.3 gunslinger. Ty gaijin for those godsent upteirs pitting a subsonic jet against a couple of lightnings and/or starfighters
It’s really cool when someone who is subbed with notifications gets pinned, isn’t it?
what i dont like about this is that the speed difference is so high its much harder to aim the gun, specially with its turn rate
It does take quite a bit of practice.
ah yes, Warthunder's best R-3R pinata
I feel sorry for that SAAB 105... I am constantly fully uptiered facing 9.3s.. it is not fun.
The lightning is faster than the 104 at high altitude
Hey Tim! Idk if your interested but there's a cheater using nord's as r73's if you want to see something overpowered.
Aim-9b on the 104 perfroms more like an aim-9d jist because of how fast you normally are when you fire it
I tend to hunt these things down in seavixens
I am struggling with it, since it has no counter measures and every other jet does and has missiles, I can only manage like 1 kill a match ussually with it
Hi Tim, you are right with this plane ans it is very fun when we are not playing against 10.3 planes...but it happens quite often as usual. When will they fix this br thing in this game ? 😢
Its not just crazy fast for the time period, its still faster than the f35b
Wait tim. Have you reviewed the F-104C yet?
AIM-9B puts the miss in missile
this thing is the best,
You can literally dodge Any missile You want.
Finally
This thing terrorizes 8.7
5:00 actually the mig21 is slower! At least at sea level! Mig 21s can dive on you if you're going like only 1200-1300, but they rip any faster. The F-104 can go 1400 at sea level which is PAST the Mig's rip speed!!! The F-104 is kinda crazy considering you can run from any aircraft, even those in a full upteir.
Explicits? 👀
the f104 in a nutshell SPEED VRRRRRRRRR
Meanwhile I'm suffering with the stock F-104J at 10.3 with only 9Bs
ua-cam.com/video/1BXXYAUJ740/v-deo.html
Ahhh yes... Corruption
Honestly the people who fly this plane a lot are the same people who abuse the XP-50...
You are wrong about the 104 speed
Mig21's rip at 1365, and ever since the f104 buff in july 2023, theyve been able to go past 1450. Its also faster than the lightnings now (at deck speeds. The mig21 is ever so slightly faster at super high alts like 10km+)
even Ferrari was gifted one
Playing this thing now is horrible. I played like 50 battles or so and all i got was 10.0 or 10.3. I only got like 1 9.3 battle and not a single one lower. On br's i'm getting thrown into its speed is not enough of an advantage anymore.
f104 is much faster than the mig21 at the altitudes where fights take place at this br.
i can only speak for the f104g and mig21mf and theyre about the same on sea level, the f104 is a good bit faster at higher altitude but radar missiles lol
The most broken plane in the entire game I'm 41/0 in this thing with over 80%w/r and not even spaded cause no premium, I can't finish the grind on it because it's so braindead OP it's just not fun.
turn off yer damn radar when you don't have radar missiles, and even when you do, only turn it on when you want to use them. You don't want to ping their rwr.
I am one of the F-104 pilots that suck. I can’t make this thing work for me at all.
It takes practice, and patience.
"deeply underestimated" *meanwhile average player with 6+ KD*