I played _so_ much ADOM in the 90's. Submitted bug reports to Thomas and everything. A decade or so later, I am browsing the web and find a hit for my name associated with the game. Curious, and wondering if I'd written an article on it that I just forgot about... I pull it up and it's in the credits for the final pre-Steam release. The man actually went to the effort of thanking all of us from the early days of the community. Big fan, was stoked when he announced that he was bringing it to Steam. One of these days, I'll actually get a win with something other than an archer :P
The fact that you can accidentally nuke all reality from a paradox in that game is hilarious, in a way; put an end to ALL order vs. chaos fights, the hard way!
This actually got me thinking, I submitted some bug reports way way back in the day and going back to check there was a request from Thomas to send him an email so he can add me to the thank you list, which I guess I never did. Oh well. :D
Remember to Rogue"like" this video ;) ;) ;) Seriously though I just wanted to talk about something from my younger years as a bit of a break from Seablock, but on that note, I'm going to be putting up another poll for the next Factorio Challenge run on my Patreon, so expect that next.
You can post videos of any game. Your exploring and nerdy approach to games is what makes your content so good. I love your factorio videos, but I hope you don't get stuck in a mindset where you feel like you HAVE to make factorio content. You don't, you just have to do your thing with any game (or even you ranting about a non-game topic would be interesting). Much love.
@@Markm8 Roguelike is basically when you die it's over, you get nothing, you start from blank in next game Roguelite you can bring some certain perk into the next game, like gear and some upgrades, depending on the game, but the rest like stat and level will reset just like roguelike. Which is also the reason why it's "lite". Less punishment for failure.
I stopped to read the Ultimate ending and show "Your deeds are recounted at campfires and interpreted by philosophers and priests alike." My mind immediately thought about the discussion on corpse-eating in ADOM and how somewhere in the future of Ancardia... There is a giant painting of Sampsa eating a bandit, à la "Saturn Devouring His Son", hanging proudly in someone's great hall.
@@un7n0wing85 pfft, i just eat bugs and then drink potions of exchange until i get 99 Wi. Good luck to anyone confusing me through that, with an additional bouns of diameter 19 fireballs.
Thank goodness Dwarf Fortress had the foresight of calling its genre a "Colony Simulation" so we didn't end up in a world where Factorio, Rimworld, and Frostpunk being called "Dwarf-like"
I watched only the first several minutes due to spoilers and laughed so hard when you said "Obliterate a beggar" because I understood your plan. I've been attempting to pass ADOM since 2013 spoiler-less and I must thank you for this video. I never got passed meeting Khelvaster. Your initial breakdown of talents (take Treasure hunter), horoscopes and classes (Only Wiz, Archer and Fighter) completely changed my approach. I now proudly say I've got passed getting the Water Orb. Let's see how far I go this time and how many more years it'll take if I ever do complete it! Cheers from India.
As a person who played this game over 20 years, I never really ever beat it in the first 9 years, cause once I learned of the Ultra endings about 2-3 years into playing, that is all I ever went for really. RNG was not kind to me. But I did I think at least do one closing run at the year or two before STEAM release of the game, and one ultra ending Lawful (that I got to the last boss at least if I remember correctly) dont know if I beat him, before the game was released on STEAM that is, though on both runs I did do a save scum to keep the characters alive even after death deletes the saves. oh the days of save scumming by hiding a copy of the save in another folder, helped with experimenting with stuff in the game. Sometimes his anti cheat stuff would detect this I think, so I would have to stop using that save eventually. Yes he had a program for that in the game, you could even trigger it by accident......really sad days on those times. Alas more sadly I would forget the game for a few weeks and forget what I was doing on the characters so Id just play another, or get such bad RNG, that I would just start over another character. Really only won those two times, as I wrote down on a note pad all the places to remember, and stuff I was doing/character hidden features with a plan already in place on what to do with those characters to get the endings I did. Now with the steam release, I am not so obsessive, I just pick what type of game I want, reload-able or classic? two Ultra endings on Reload-able (no not the chaos one thats way too much work), one Ultra on classic rogue-like A few gate closing on Reload-able, but as Reloadable is NOT Achievement unlocking, I sadly keep going for ultra endings only on my harder difficulty runs. I just love that challenge too much.
I mean if you haven't played ASCII art games I can see why it's hard to understand stuff, but yeah, when you only got 200 ish symbols to use as art, and more often than that a lot less in reality... Creatively using random ascii characters is a skill. When you only have 94+(blankspace) symbols to use, you have to get creative.
I personally prefer Roguelites over Roguelikes. The difference being that Roguelites have some kind of progression that is persistent outside of your character
@MiroredImage i wouldn't say so, no. I consider any game a roguelite if it has random elements and lets you keep items/buffs between runs. In a traditional roguelike, the only thing you keep through play is knowledge
Seriously, thank you! I've been starting the development of a traditionnnal rogue like for a couple of weeks and I didn't have a lot of motivation to really dive into all the hassle of creating something that big, but your passion about Adom is quite a motivation. Thanks for those 49 minutes of pure motivation.
I'm trying to do something like this. I've got player motion, walls, and half of a combat system. But I've only been working on it for maybe 4 weeks, for a couple hours at a time on the weekends. But I could see that if you keep doing something like that for a year or two, adding more mechanics and gameplay elements, it could snowball pretty hugely. This video inspired me to start working on a little bit again.
Dude, speaking of the cockatrice. I have to share to add on to that complexity thing you were talking about. I had an amazing run going in Nethack and was practically invincible, except to being petrified...I always kept an eye out for cockatricies because they would be run killers and kept a few lizard corpses on me just in case. Well, I killed one that was on the map and felt safe and continued my rampage and suddenly instantly die. Some elf archer decided to be an absolute chad and dropped his bow just so he could pick up the cockatrice corpse on the ground and bashed me over the head with it...without gloves on I might add. So the guy died in one of the most heroic ways possible, taking me with him...I didn't even noticing before it was too late. Because I could have saved myself by eating one of my lizard corpses. One of the most memorable experiences I have ever had with a game because I would never have expected an enemy in any game to realize what they were doing was not working to then also know how deadly a cockatrice corpse is AND, at the expense of it's own safety, know to pick it up and use it as a weapon...
"Oh cool, someone made a video on a game I played obsessively as a teen!" ".... THERE WERE QUESTS?!" Spent 20 years just having fun slamming my face against things... No idea there were quests.
@@costelinha1867first time i played nethack i drank a mysterious potion and somehow got attacked by a mindflayer and red dragon. I then read an unidentified scroll cause I wasnt going to beat these things. it caused rocks to fall all around me and i eventually just died of starvation. I believe I drank a hallucinogen potion.
I wouldn't mind a bonus video of you going even more into detail about your feelings on the classes/races/abilities as you seem to know pretty much everything about the game and I love getting that second-hand passion from that.
Oh holy shit, Castle of the Winds. _That_ is an unlocked memory I had forgotten. I died so very, very much in that game. And then my gaming took me into the world of MUDs instead of deeper into roguelikes (incidentally, where I learned to touch-type) and I never looked back. Funny enough, the MUD I favored used a very ADoM-like palette, and holy shit is this video taking me back decades.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I remember the game but I could never ever remember what the hell it was called. So it just rested in some part of my brain of 'games I remember playing as a kid but don't remember the name'
@@PrinceSilvermane The casual showcase and name drop kinda blew my mind. I think I remembered it a few years ago and tried to figure out what it was, but I couldn't and then, boom, here it is on this random video I clicked because it had "roguelike" in the title and I couldn't remember if I knew what ADOM was. (It turns out I didn't, and the game I was thinking of was TOME.)
I remember getting some sort of freeware version of Castle of the WInds when I was a kid, it stopped you from getting past a certain point. Then, a while after that, finding Castle of the Winds 2 (or at least that's what the disk called it) which had the main part of the game. My siblings and I usually just called it 'Zoom', because we didn't know any better than to facemash everything ever. It was only much, much later that I found out just how many things they directly took from D&D (...which reminds me that another fantasy freeware/demo game I played when I was a kid did that, Exile)
I never realized how much Elona cribbed and referenced to and or from ADOM. Elona's first town straight up sends you to the puppy cave as a first quest, and drinking from wells can grant you wishes or curses as well.
Yeah, the corruption system and many of the corruptions in general are 100% ADOM, though I seem to recall in an interview that ADOM got inspiration for the corruption system from Warhammer tabletops.
@@DoshDoshington Looking at ADOM's ChAoS faction, it's definitely Warhammer inspired; there's Chaos-themed monsters of all kinds, and dying from too many corruptions in that game basically makes you a Chaos Spawn.
All the world's a reference. Take the whole "you were eaten by a Grue" thing in ADOM, that was stolen from Zork, who stole it from the "Dying Earth" series. We must keep the cycle of pillaging alive.
I played approximately 1,000 hours of a roguelike named POWDER growing up. It was the only game we had on the Windows 95 computers at the after-school daycare in elementary school. And then the iOS app came out and I could play it on my phone. Such a good game, with the depth of interactions and secrets I've come to expect from roguelikes - drop a Warhammer in a hole, push a boulder onto it to bury it, then unearth it somehow and hey presto, an Earth Hammer that can dig through walls and does bonus damage to earth elementals. Not to mention the Minotaur's key, which is used to open the portal to the spaceship (sorry, "cave of steel"), complete with viewports you can break and get sucked out of.
I played POWDER as homebrew on my DS! Great game that proved roguelikes don't need to sacrifice depth to be user-friendly (POWDER being perfectly playable with simply a dpad and 6 buttons).
That cave of steel might have been inspired by the very old 1st or 2nd edition D&D dungeon expedition to barrier peaks where you investigate a spaceship and doodads like floppy disks and keycards from the perspective of a fantasy party. Just maybe. Nerd circles were much smaller back in the day.
1:35 "I've heard what people really want is passion" it's true. I love listening to you (and people in general) talk about what they're passionate about.
Holy fuck, ADoM was one of my all time favorite games way back when, I literally used to fake sick and skip school to play more of it lmao. Read through the ancient guidebook so many times. I had a pile of shitty midi's I would play for it to have music, to this day, scatman evokes fantasy vibes for me ahaha.
A very accessable roguelike that in my opinion still is a real roguelike is shattered pixel dungeon. It got all the unidentified potions, random level layouts and stuff, yet cuts down on some of the complexity and is overall a more balanced environment, while still being challenging. (also the controls are modern and easy)
Glad to see Shattered Pixel Dungeon mentioned! I've never played a proper roguelike besides it, and yet it engrossed me enough to achieve the secret hidden ending with some absurd exploitation of game mechanics that I learned on my own. It was the first game that gave me that rogue like opportunity that actually felt like I could tackle it, and actually felt like the power gaming achievement that rogue like veterans seek. I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to play rogue likes, but feels like the classics are too daunting.
Oh I love pixel dungeon! It's the first traditional roguelike I ever played, so when I later discovered nethack, things made a lot more sense for why Pixel dungeon felt like nothing I'd ever played before. I just wish I was good at any of them.
@@nolankanski9116 , Nethack yes, I personally played pathos nethack, and starting off with pixel dungeon, pathos was like quite a lot more chaotic is the right word I think.
Golden Krone Hotel is another modern trad roguelike that's accessible enough to be fun to a newbie but still deep enough to be interesting. It and shattered pixel are the only roguelikes i've ever really gotten into, but i'll take the plunge with qud or something one of these days.
Having recently rediscovered Noita on UA-cam, and being astonished by just how much more there was then that one day I found the concept fun, struggled to get anywhere or make any skill, then forgot to go back to it... I want to see Dosh's reaction or hear his opinion on it.
It seems to me that Noita would be every thing Dosh talk about in the video (exept the ASCII caracters) but he must have heard of it so much i don't think he wants to play it. If there is a chance however I would also be down for it 1000% !
Dosh focuses on making videos on obscure & lesser known games iirc so he probably won't get around to Noita since it has a big following these days, but he's talked about it briefly in the La Mulana video and one other I forgot the name of.
My favorite game in the rogue* subgenre has to be Elona. So many references I never recognized, like the Puppy Cave. You can play a game for a thousand hours and still not know the ancient references buried within.
I've lost ultra ending attempts in the dumbest ways. I had a ring of weakness farmed monk with 90+ in every stat that mattered and didn't realize I lost see invisible somewhere and just obliterated a friendly Khelevaster in Terinyo. I got to Andor Drakon (ahem, AnDoR DrAkOn) with a level 50 thief. Thief level 50 power was auto stun on hits, so I just permastunned Andor Drakon into teleporting randomly and I died of corruption. Just endless ways to fail, such a great game.
The thing with most of the skills and abilities being useless is actually accurate to tabletop pen-and-paper RPGs. Like with D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder 1st edition, there's a ton of choices when building your character due to the supplemental material released over the years, but 90% of them are useless or objectively worse than the best/optimal choice. The rest are sidegrades for utility or minor downgrades that you take because you want "flavor" for your character.
@@Nycoorias I'm not defending the game design or anything, I'm just saying that a lot of tabletop RPGs had the same problem. I personally find the coincidence endearing, but still acknowledge it as a fault.
i don't think i'll ever understand why its a problem, though. its one of many things where you're supposed to learn what's best or most optimal through actual experimentation; these games wouldn't be as fun (imo) if all options were correct options. a large part of the fun i think is that there absolutely are wrong choices to everything, and it just makes sense for that to apply to character creation as well for more advanced players who already know the most optimal ways to play, intentionally choosing suboptimal abilities can be an interesting roleplay choice or just a fun way of challenging yourself even further as a final point, though i've never played ADOM specifically, some of the skills he listed seemed specifically made to help out newer players learn certain mechanics, rather than to actually be used by experienced players
@@nibbletrinnal2289 I don't have a problem with suboptimal choices existing in games in and of itself, it's mostly the issue that it can lead to homogeneity if there is one optimized build that stands above all others. There is a big difference between wrong choices being slightly worse vs a fraction of the power of an optimized build. When I played Pathfinder with mostly new players I get a diverse and interesting party that struggles with basic combat. Not because lack of tactics, but because they didn't optimize character creation. With a (combat focused) experienced group it's always the same few builds repeated with minor variations. Some classes would never see gameplay because they were bad. I do look back on it fondly as it as part of the flawed 3.5/Pathfinder system, but I do not think it is good game design in general.
@@rokushou that's a good point actually, my earlier point forgot to take into account that players will almost always optimise all fun out of a game if given the chance
Whenever motivation to work on my own roguelike starts to wane, I come back to this video and it immediately gets me right back into the swing of things. This and the new Cogmind video have been some of the best motivators I've ever had to continue working on a project. So, thank you for this.
Nethack was what got me into the genre. Still my favourite to this day. It really deserves the tagline of 'The devs think of everything.' Thanks so much for this video! Aside from being a general topic near and dear to my heart, ADOM in particular has been a nemesis of mine I've gone back to every so often for many years now. I probably could have gotten a normal win by now but my stubborn desire to get an ultimate win without TOO many spoilers means I've never gotten past the midgame. Well, I'm sure you get where I'm coming from. Seeing your summarized runs here felt good. Maybe do another roguelike video some day? Pretty please? My vote would be for CDDA with the Bright Nights fork or ToME 2.3 (The old middle earth based one, not the new fangled thing.)
Very happy to see you covering classic roguelikes! I would love to see you check out some other ones, in particular I think Cogmind might be up your alley...
Men, i know those types of videos don't get nearly as many views as your factorio one but please keep making them, they are so so good. Could hear you talk about the most random video games for hours and hours.
The whole thing that enraptured my younger years is the amount of play that the developers could have with expectations and interactions. Throwing a list of edibles down, and then recognizing "wait... We put a banana cream pie on that list. I want to throw it at an enemy" and then MAKING THAT DO SOMETHING. Look up Nethack and how "the developers thought of everything" to see a list of interactions that may or may not cross the average person's mind. Like trying to put a sack into itself. Or resisting and surviving all the effects of an irate God's wrath. It's fascinating. And when all you have to worry about is text, with no animations or images? You can just... Write all the things.
I really like your style in your non factorio videos. It's like half review, half guide, half video essay. That's an extra half as good as most videos on youtube in my opinion. Excited to see whatever it is you post next.
ADOM is an amazing game. I remember playing it over 20 years ago. And I'm still able to identify the most dangerous monster at 12:34 , the game is just ingrained in my memory. The original ADOM is completely free. The only thing that the creator asked for is that you send him a postcard.
fascinating to hear that the original idea of procedural generation was to solve the issue of not having enough space to hand craft all the levels they wanted.
Such ASCII roguelike compared to modern games is like a book compared to the cinematography. Always pleased to hear your voice and feel my brain overflow with information to the degree where i'm sometimes unable to comprehend the visuals.
Please for the love of god keep making these videos, your variety content is way more enjoyable than your factorio challenges by a lot I think, and I always learn something new about games and game design when you upload one of these.
I never really got into ADOM, but I absolutely loved playing stuff like Tales of Maj'Eyal or Poschengband. I remember playing a ton of the latter as a cursed magic ring that other creatures had to pick up and put on before getting cursed and possessed by me.
Funnily enough, one of the main things that prevent me from playing the more keyboard intense games is the fact that I use an Icelandic keyboard layout, and colon and semicolon are on shift+. and shift+, respectively. I could rebind them, but with rouglikes, rebinding keys you don't even know the use of is a dangerous endeavour.
though i'm not entirely sure why that placement of (semi)colon keys is a problem, you could always just go into your system settings and add a different keyboard layout that you can just switch to when playing these games
@@nibbletrinnal2289 Correct, but now I have to memorize an entire new keyboard layout and internalize it because aside from the standard letters and numbers, every key is in a different place and the markings are there to help me with Icelandic. It's problematic because a keybind like ;s will become ;S which may or may not work depending on the game. Or I have to let go of shift and then it might become ;,s which, again, may or may not work depending on the game.
I've played alot of CoQ, Cataclysm DDA, Dwarf Fortress and Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup in ASCII for 10+ years so everything translated very well. I was thinking about playing ADOM buy holy moly that sounds very convoluted. Almost sounds like a guide is required unless you can find all this naturally playing like digging through a wall to get to that boss. I usually end up playing one of the early 4 play some "newer" games realize I haven't played the others in a while in a cycle. Probably try Angband next cause im a sucker for middle earth.
Despite having never actually played this or any other ASCII graphics game on account of being a god damn zoomer, I didn't actually struggle to comprehend the graphics. Pattern recognition and prior experience with Autism Projects has prepared me for this.
0:27 same here. Cogmind was what introduced me to the genre and my god does it hold a spot near and dear to me. (Also shattered pixel dungeon for mobile)
A small nitpick; Hack wasn’t a direct fork of Rogue. Basically what happened was a couple college students asked the Rogue developer for the source so they could fork it, and he said “lol no”. So they tried their best to replicate the dungeon-generation algorithms and made Hack, which later became NetHack.
My best run was up to the tower of flames where my equipment burned up. It's a fun game where the goal is not to win but to get better every time and learn from your mistakes. Everybody should try it. It's easy to get used to the ASCII after a few minutes actually and the screen is clean and conveys all the information. d is dogs, D is demons, f is felines, T is trolls. I played this and Z-Angband a lot back in the days. Also the old version of Tome which was based on middle-earth and was completely retooled to the version that is now on Steam.
The restricted graphics of faithful rogue-likes allow for unique impressions based on the player's imagination, much like good old books, but there is a point at which strictly adhering to that style completely undermines the game's ability to be observed in the first place due to lack of accessibility. With the wide availability of free tools & assets for making games, the cost of development is practically equal to restricting yourself to ASCII. I won't berate developers who want to use the style for that imaginative purity or nostalgia of classics, but even the least bit of modernization in the UI can have a profound benefit in the game's reach. Additionally, there are mechanics that quite simply cannot be expressed without more information being given to the player than a colored shape with a text description.
I thought having your channel blow up because of factorio torture mods was rough but watching your other videos on the games you like (which are all great vids) makes me realize you are a true torture pilled gamer. God speed and ty for the vids you maniac.
Interestingly enough this is incredibly good to 'watch' when laying in bed, since the graphics are so rudimentary, you can just as well close your eyes and listen to your rambling while simply imagining the scenes, which arguably enhances the experience. This has become a comfort video to play when going to sleep.
I will always have a soft spot for roguelikes (and I'm talking old school like ADOM here). One of the first kinds of games I ever played was the original Rogue I used to play a lot on my grandpa's computer. My grandpa wasn't really an early adopter of gaming or a gamer at all, but for some reason, he played the heck out of Rogue. I was too young to really get good at it, but it didn't stop me. Eventually, I discovered my first roguelike, Nethack. I played the crap out of it as much as you played ADOM. My second runner up for most played would be ToME (used to be Tales of Middle Earth once upon a time). I didn't get into ADOM or Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup until quite a few years later, but I enjoyed those as well. Maybe I'm a bit of a snob here, but I feel a lot of newer games that take the roguelike moniker bastardize the term. It's like... as long as they can vaguely tie one of its mechanics to the original Rogue, the game is automatically a roguelike.
Wow, the only game I ever managed to wrap my brain around is Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, but this is on completely another level. Also, respect for posting a youtube video, where majority of screen time is a bunch of letters on a black background.
I think it's more about the expectations. when i was 11 i would play dwarf fortress and not have any issues with it, and those memes about it being "the hardest game ever" etc, didn't exist at the time, so i never got the expectations that it would be an impossible game to play and just played it and had a good time, i was capable of making self suficient colonies etc, and i barely knew how to speak english at the time.
DF's complexity is highly overstated. Then again, maybe I'm just one of the ones who knows, but it's not that complicated to dig a hole, grow plump helmets, and then make booze out of them. It can be a bit complex if you're trying to make a complex military squad instead of just relying on traps or drawbridge atom smashers.
DF ins overly complex, and has never been. The only mechanical challange is handling stress, and thats mostly just bugs anyway. What the game is, is open. You are free to do a lot of dumb shit you have no reason to, vesifes your own autism, and that can get quiet tricky to pull off. Clear glass palaces in hell and all that.
Dosh, my guy. You can't bring up Ancient Domains of Mystery, Now I'm sitting here remembering my first run and how it made me think of Rogue... Yes C:\games ogue>rogue. Now I feel old as fuck.
Wow, you made me return to Cataclysm after several years of wanting to. And while it isn't really a roguelike, more of a survival immersive sim, rogue-like complexity is what draws me in it. And you reminded me just how exciting and fun this can be. Great video, I think describing your runs is a great way to introduce roguelikes to someone. Thank you.
ADOM is so great, I tried it after I got addicted to TOME along with a ton of other traditional roguelikes. Definitely a genre I think a lot of people should try so they can understand the influences and legacy more but also a genre I know most people wouldn't enjoy playing.
I just watched a whole video with nothing but meaningless ascii text and no context for why the ascii is now out to get me, and yet I sat here not knowing what was going on and was highly entertained. 10 out of 10
2:37 best Indiegogo support graphic ever. The little artistic touches and memes are well done and in good taste. A good metric for how passionate and creative the developer is.
3:08: I had the same experience with Dwarf Fortress tilesets. Though it doesn't help that those old fan-made tilesets tended not to distinguish between different types of terrain...
Commenting for the algorithm, of course. I truly adore these non-factorio videos. It's sad they get fewer views, cus I genuinely think they're just as good as, if not better than, the Factorio content.
Unironically some of my favorite content of yours so far. Despite my lack of familiarity with the original material hearing about the general plan and the strategies required to pull that off is very entertaining. Great stuff!
in a lot of ways classic roguelikes are like the best (and worst) parts of classic adventure/puzzle games mixed with the most arcane rpg systems possible, and that's a lot of what i love about them! the richness of games like dcss and nethack when i was younger in spite of them being 100% completely free was a big part in my growing up fairly poor and still playing games at all. nethack in particular is such special thing to me, as completing that game took my middle/highschool self many, many years of trial and error and varying degrees of spoilers to finally ascend, and when i finally *did* (live on a public server no less) it felt like one of the most immense accomplishments of my young life.
I really enjoyed the combination of the video's ASCII graphics and your detailed but direct explanations. Would happily enjoy a narrated longplay of you playing this game while discussing your choices without needing to provide context or clear explanation.
doshua doshington i gotta say, this video got my boyfriend addicted to ADOM and now he randomly tells me about how much he hates ant warriors or gets into rambling the full replay of his run when he died by eating a kobold corpse, he has now resorted to using the wiki whenever he wants to eat a body thank you for the content, both the video aswell as the content my bf generates in talks together, but also fuck you for the fact he will now randomly dissapear for hours at a time and when I check steam he was playing all that time and come back with a great story on how he died
@@DoshDoshington shit he even plays it in ascii too, i can't even comprehend what the hell is happening on screen every time he shows me it like "why is that letter following you" "Oh he's a guy who's been cursed so if I bring him to this priest I will learn healing" "ah.... I see..." "Dosh did it in the video" "ooooh yeah I remember now" thank you for the free content
This is the kind of hyper-nerd content that I live for! I'm kind of in-between being an outsider and being a fan of 'traditional' roguelikes -- I enjoyed reading a comprehensive playthrough of NetHack ages ago but every attempt to play it myself afterwards ended in abject, disappointing failure. The combination of requiring a great deal of knowledge for success while eagerly punishing you for trying to learn things yourself often makes these games a painful, unrewarding experience for those that don't find it intrinsically compelling to explore and unravel them. Yet, I spent a lot of time playing DCSS (a long time ago now, back when it still had hill dwarves and hunger) and even got a winning run with a couple extra runes along with many heartbreaking near-misses... the exquisite, empowering feeling when you start to meaningfully part the mists of these monolithic games, when you start taking your first conscious steps towards mastery, that is a feeling of accomplishment that is impossible to replicate. Can a game with more of a focus on accessibility (or meta-progression, or other deliberate gameplay hooks) still give you that feeling? (For the record, despite the majority of my roguelike time being spent playing DCSS with tiles, I can still parse what is happening in this video most of the time -- Dwarf Fortress and CDDA trained me in the ancient ways of ASCII-sight)
While it's a bit of a sidestep to the topic of this video, considering that its proper Roguelike mode is somewhat underdeveloped and the primary game is the simulation aspect, I am genuinely impressed that you've managed to write this script while avoiding even a singular mention of Dwarf Fortress.
Hey, you have some of the most unique and interesting videos relating to obscure games I've ever seen, I love how indepth and good at explaining things you are, and your sense of humour is great too. I know Factorio is your main content, but I and I'm sure many others would adore some variety content on even more random obscure games you enjoy- They're really quite fascinating and entertaining to watch, so keep it up! :)
A new DoshDoshington video? And a 48 minute one about actual roguelikes? Let's go! EDIT: And you're already namedropping Castle of the Winds, which was also my first roguelike. 😊
I've played roguelikes for many years now. Usually when people are mentioning them nowadays they speak about roguelites. When you've mentioned in one of your videos the traditional ones i was real excited and it was worth the wait.
I've seen the new ADOM because a guy I watch on Twitch used to do a "Roguelike Month" and specifically played things like Caves of Qud, ADOM, and Cataclysm. You know, actual roguelikes.
It also grinds my gears when people call games roguelikes that aren't roguelikes just because they have one quality that can be found in roguelike games such as randomization/procgen. I think by the most stringent definition it at least has to be turn based and have permadeath with no meta progression system. It especially annoys me when games that literally reward you for dying are called roguelikes.
The xore emllements of Anngband and rogue were the turn based combat, procgen maps and rpg progression. I would argue CRPGs like Diablo or PoE, and turn based tactics games like XCom or Into the Breach are closer to them in spirit than the arcade action games like binding of isaac or risk of rain that people have come to call roguelike. But by strict definition, the genre is almost dead. The only no open source project I can think of that qualifies is swortld of the stars the pit.
It's neat how there are some kinda specific parallels are between ADOM and Elona. Stuff like the Puppy Cave corruption/etherwind and wishes or even overcasting, the hunger descriptions and eating mostly anything. Though I don't know if that goes even further back to older Rogue games.
"More about learning the game than memorising it" is exactly why I like roguelikes, too. You have to learn to be good at the game, not just memorise how to deal with certain very specific situations. That's much more satisfying.
I know most of your content is Factorio, but I really liked this video. But I just wanted to say that I'm here for your presentation and explanation/narration style, this was a great video
This was a great video. Love explorations into games like this. They often feel esoteric and mysterious to me. So seeing it explained so casually is quite entertaining
Long time Cataclysm player here, I really enjoyed this video. It's interesting to hear the history of this genre and I also found your overview of a run of ADOM fascinating.
I played _so_ much ADOM in the 90's. Submitted bug reports to Thomas and everything. A decade or so later, I am browsing the web and find a hit for my name associated with the game. Curious, and wondering if I'd written an article on it that I just forgot about... I pull it up and it's in the credits for the final pre-Steam release. The man actually went to the effort of thanking all of us from the early days of the community. Big fan, was stoked when he announced that he was bringing it to Steam.
One of these days, I'll actually get a win with something other than an archer :P
The fact that you can accidentally nuke all reality from a paradox in that game is hilarious, in a way; put an end to ALL order vs. chaos fights, the hard way!
This actually got me thinking, I submitted some bug reports way way back in the day and going back to check there was a request from Thomas to send him an email so he can add me to the thank you list, which I guess I never did. Oh well. :D
Yes he did, like an absolute champion.
DO ITTTTTTTTTTTT
@@Sarcorco Can you do it now?
Remember to Rogue"like" this video ;) ;) ;)
Seriously though I just wanted to talk about something from my younger years as a bit of a break from Seablock, but on that note, I'm going to be putting up another poll for the next Factorio Challenge run on my Patreon, so expect that next.
Nostalgia increases immensely
Ok is a roguelike and roguelite the same thing or what
There is a 3dbgame based off of this game it was fun. Played it on ps4
You can post videos of any game. Your exploring and nerdy approach to games is what makes your content so good. I love your factorio videos, but I hope you don't get stuck in a mindset where you feel like you HAVE to make factorio content. You don't, you just have to do your thing with any game (or even you ranting about a non-game topic would be interesting).
Much love.
@@Markm8
Roguelike is basically when you die it's over, you get nothing, you start from blank in next game
Roguelite you can bring some certain perk into the next game, like gear and some upgrades, depending on the game, but the rest like stat and level will reset just like roguelike. Which is also the reason why it's "lite". Less punishment for failure.
I stopped to read the Ultimate ending and show "Your deeds are recounted at campfires and interpreted by philosophers and priests alike."
My mind immediately thought about the discussion on corpse-eating in ADOM and how somewhere in the future of Ancardia...
There is a giant painting of Sampsa eating a bandit, à la "Saturn Devouring His Son", hanging proudly in someone's great hall.
More like a painting of Sampsa obliterating a beggar and a story of how it was a major step in his ascention.
Inspiring for many generations.
ADOM being your childhood game explains so much about your taste in games and I’m here for it
'Ring of mental stability' sounds like something my therapist would try tricking me into wearing
That's just your meds bro. Please quaff your potion of mental stability.
@@un7n0wing85 pfft, i just eat bugs and then drink potions of exchange until i get 99 Wi. Good luck to anyone confusing me through that, with an additional bouns of diameter 19 fireballs.
@@Self-replicating_whatnot You sound like post-credit scene of this video :)
Tis a shame your placebo was spoiled, I suppose
I wanna like bit its perfect
It's crazy that, despite having never seen this game before, I can mostly make sense of what's going on thanks to Dwarf Fortress.
For sure, like somehow it made me nostalgic lmao
mood though
unexpected.
Thank goodness Dwarf Fortress had the foresight of calling its genre a "Colony Simulation" so we didn't end up in a world where Factorio, Rimworld, and Frostpunk being called "Dwarf-like"
Yep, everyone settled on what characters to represent most things early on, and mostly stuck to it forever.
I watched only the first several minutes due to spoilers and laughed so hard when you said "Obliterate a beggar" because I understood your plan. I've been attempting to pass ADOM since 2013 spoiler-less and I must thank you for this video. I never got passed meeting Khelvaster. Your initial breakdown of talents (take Treasure hunter), horoscopes and classes (Only Wiz, Archer and Fighter) completely changed my approach. I now proudly say I've got passed getting the Water Orb. Let's see how far I go this time and how many more years it'll take if I ever do complete it! Cheers from India.
How's the progress so far?
As a person who played this game over 20 years, I never really ever beat it in the first 9 years, cause once I learned of the Ultra endings about 2-3 years into playing, that is all I ever went for really. RNG was not kind to me. But I did I think at least do one closing run at the year or two before STEAM release of the game, and one ultra ending Lawful (that I got to the last boss at least if I remember correctly) dont know if I beat him, before the game was released on STEAM that is, though on both runs I did do a save scum to keep the characters alive even after death deletes the saves. oh the days of save scumming by hiding a copy of the save in another folder, helped with experimenting with stuff in the game. Sometimes his anti cheat stuff would detect this I think, so I would have to stop using that save eventually. Yes he had a program for that in the game, you could even trigger it by accident......really sad days on those times.
Alas more sadly I would forget the game for a few weeks and forget what I was doing on the characters so Id just play another, or get such bad RNG, that I would just start over another character. Really only won those two times, as I wrote down on a note pad all the places to remember, and stuff I was doing/character hidden features with a plan already in place on what to do with those characters to get the endings I did.
Now with the steam release, I am not so obsessive, I just pick what type of game I want, reload-able or classic?
two Ultra endings on Reload-able (no not the chaos one thats way too much work), one Ultra on classic rogue-like
A few gate closing on Reload-able, but as Reloadable is NOT Achievement unlocking, I sadly keep going for ultra endings only on my harder difficulty runs. I just love that challenge too much.
Another example of how the Matrix operators could actually comprehend walls of random symbols
just left the same comment lol
I mean if you haven't played ASCII art games I can see why it's hard to understand stuff, but yeah, when you only got 200 ish symbols to use as art, and more often than that a lot less in reality... Creatively using random ascii characters is a skill. When you only have 94+(blankspace) symbols to use, you have to get creative.
"You get used to it. I don't even see the code. All I see is Ankheg, Balor, Ancient Red Dragon..."
You get used to it, I don't even see the code. All I see is goblins, rats, kobolds...
as if that's a good thing. now i'm scared of ampersands
I don’t really like roguelikes but I love hearing people talk about stuff that they’re passionate about
youre missing out
you should start playing isaac NOW
I personally prefer Roguelites over Roguelikes. The difference being that Roguelites have some kind of progression that is persistent outside of your character
@@erfaniom9576 I’ve tried, they just don’t click with me. I have enjoyed Risk of Rain 2 though.
@@Spiker985StudiosIsn't that all Roguelikes though? Like, even Binding of Isaac had progression through unlocks across many runs
@MiroredImage i wouldn't say so, no. I consider any game a roguelite if it has random elements and lets you keep items/buffs between runs. In a traditional roguelike, the only thing you keep through play is knowledge
Seriously, thank you! I've been starting the development of a traditionnnal rogue like for a couple of weeks and I didn't have a lot of motivation to really dive into all the hassle of creating something that big, but your passion about Adom is quite a motivation.
Thanks for those 49 minutes of pure motivation.
I'm trying to do something like this. I've got player motion, walls, and half of a combat system. But I've only been working on it for maybe 4 weeks, for a couple hours at a time on the weekends. But I could see that if you keep doing something like that for a year or two, adding more mechanics and gameplay elements, it could snowball pretty hugely. This video inspired me to start working on a little bit again.
If you need a game tester, I'm happy to volunteer!
Dude, speaking of the cockatrice. I have to share to add on to that complexity thing you were talking about.
I had an amazing run going in Nethack and was practically invincible, except to being petrified...I always kept an eye out for cockatricies because they would be run killers and kept a few lizard corpses on me just in case. Well, I killed one that was on the map and felt safe and continued my rampage and suddenly instantly die.
Some elf archer decided to be an absolute chad and dropped his bow just so he could pick up the cockatrice corpse on the ground and bashed me over the head with it...without gloves on I might add. So the guy died in one of the most heroic ways possible, taking me with him...I didn't even noticing before it was too late. Because I could have saved myself by eating one of my lizard corpses.
One of the most memorable experiences I have ever had with a game because I would never have expected an enemy in any game to realize what they were doing was not working to then also know how deadly a cockatrice corpse is AND, at the expense of it's own safety, know to pick it up and use it as a weapon...
"Oh cool, someone made a video on a game I played obsessively as a teen!"
".... THERE WERE QUESTS?!"
Spent 20 years just having fun slamming my face against things... No idea there were quests.
Don't worry, the first time I played the original Rogue, I was stuck on the first floor because I couldn't figure out how to descend a stair.
Oh not just quests, but hidden interactions, and very in depth mechanics behind several actions. but yeah quests are very important in this game. XD
@@costelinha1867first time i played nethack i drank a mysterious potion and somehow got attacked by a mindflayer and red dragon. I then read an unidentified scroll cause I wasnt going to beat these things. it caused rocks to fall all around me and i eventually just died of starvation.
I believe I drank a hallucinogen potion.
I wouldn't mind a bonus video of you going even more into detail about your feelings on the classes/races/abilities as you seem to know pretty much everything about the game and I love getting that second-hand passion from that.
Oh holy shit, Castle of the Winds. _That_ is an unlocked memory I had forgotten.
I died so very, very much in that game. And then my gaming took me into the world of MUDs instead of deeper into roguelikes (incidentally, where I learned to touch-type) and I never looked back. Funny enough, the MUD I favored used a very ADoM-like palette, and holy shit is this video taking me back decades.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I remember the game but I could never ever remember what the hell it was called. So it just rested in some part of my brain of 'games I remember playing as a kid but don't remember the name'
Yes! It was perhaps the first game I played on PC, so many good memories.
I loved that game as well as a kid
@@PrinceSilvermane The casual showcase and name drop kinda blew my mind. I think I remembered it a few years ago and tried to figure out what it was, but I couldn't and then, boom, here it is on this random video I clicked because it had "roguelike" in the title and I couldn't remember if I knew what ADOM was. (It turns out I didn't, and the game I was thinking of was TOME.)
I remember getting some sort of freeware version of Castle of the WInds when I was a kid, it stopped you from getting past a certain point. Then, a while after that, finding Castle of the Winds 2 (or at least that's what the disk called it) which had the main part of the game.
My siblings and I usually just called it 'Zoom', because we didn't know any better than to facemash everything ever. It was only much, much later that I found out just how many things they directly took from D&D (...which reminds me that another fantasy freeware/demo game I played when I was a kid did that, Exile)
I never realized how much Elona cribbed and referenced to and or from ADOM. Elona's first town straight up sends you to the puppy cave as a first quest, and drinking from wells can grant you wishes or curses as well.
Yeah, the corruption system and many of the corruptions in general are 100% ADOM, though I seem to recall in an interview that ADOM got inspiration for the corruption system from Warhammer tabletops.
Yeah, but as a mechanic it's unique, the warhammer corruption stuff is all fluff
@@DoshDoshington Looking at ADOM's ChAoS faction, it's definitely Warhammer inspired; there's Chaos-themed monsters of all kinds, and dying from too many corruptions in that game basically makes you a Chaos Spawn.
Besides all the methods of dying I recognized, All of the herb names (Stomafilia, Spenseweed, Morgia, Mareilon) are in Elona as well.
All the world's a reference. Take the whole "you were eaten by a Grue" thing in ADOM, that was stolen from Zork, who stole it from the "Dying Earth" series. We must keep the cycle of pillaging alive.
I REALLY enjoy these longform videos of you just talking about your passions in video gaming.
A video about ADOM that has more then 20 views. It's enough to bring a tear to my eye.
Babe wake up, it's 3 AM, new Dosh video just dropped
OH BOY! 3 A.M.!
Yippie !
Yes
5 am but sill worth it
I have a hotel concierge call me every time Dosh drops one
I played approximately 1,000 hours of a roguelike named POWDER growing up. It was the only game we had on the Windows 95 computers at the after-school daycare in elementary school. And then the iOS app came out and I could play it on my phone.
Such a good game, with the depth of interactions and secrets I've come to expect from roguelikes - drop a Warhammer in a hole, push a boulder onto it to bury it, then unearth it somehow and hey presto, an Earth Hammer that can dig through walls and does bonus damage to earth elementals.
Not to mention the Minotaur's key, which is used to open the portal to the spaceship (sorry, "cave of steel"), complete with viewports you can break and get sucked out of.
Oh man POWDER, that was a roguelike built to play on the gameboy. I played it on a hacked Wii first. It's a good one.
I remember playing POWDER on a gba emulator on my phone
I played POWDER as homebrew on my DS! Great game that proved roguelikes don't need to sacrifice depth to be user-friendly (POWDER being perfectly playable with simply a dpad and 6 buttons).
@@lime148powder was a perfect game for a bus ride, each session usually lasted me the distance between home and school
That cave of steel might have been inspired by the very old 1st or 2nd edition D&D dungeon expedition to barrier peaks where you investigate a spaceship and doodads like floppy disks and keycards from the perspective of a fantasy party.
Just maybe. Nerd circles were much smaller back in the day.
1:35 "I've heard what people really want is passion" it's true. I love listening to you (and people in general) talk about what they're passionate about.
Roguelikes are so rarely talked about at length like this so it’s really cool that somebody finally did. I hope you’ll consider others in the future.
Holy fuck, ADoM was one of my all time favorite games way back when, I literally used to fake sick and skip school to play more of it lmao. Read through the ancient guidebook so many times. I had a pile of shitty midi's I would play for it to have music, to this day, scatman evokes fantasy vibes for me ahaha.
That's hilarious
A very accessable roguelike that in my opinion still is a real roguelike is shattered pixel dungeon.
It got all the unidentified potions, random level layouts and stuff, yet cuts down on some of the complexity and is overall a more balanced environment, while still being challenging. (also the controls are modern and easy)
Glad to see Shattered Pixel Dungeon mentioned! I've never played a proper roguelike besides it, and yet it engrossed me enough to achieve the secret hidden ending with some absurd exploitation of game mechanics that I learned on my own. It was the first game that gave me that rogue like opportunity that actually felt like I could tackle it, and actually felt like the power gaming achievement that rogue like veterans seek. I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to play rogue likes, but feels like the classics are too daunting.
Oh I love pixel dungeon! It's the first traditional roguelike I ever played, so when I later discovered nethack, things made a lot more sense for why Pixel dungeon felt like nothing I'd ever played before. I just wish I was good at any of them.
@@nolankanski9116 , Nethack yes, I personally played pathos nethack, and starting off with pixel dungeon, pathos was like quite a lot more chaotic is the right word I think.
SPD is probably the best-in-class gateway drug to things like ADOM or NetHack
Golden Krone Hotel is another modern trad roguelike that's accessible enough to be fun to a newbie but still deep enough to be interesting. It and shattered pixel are the only roguelikes i've ever really gotten into, but i'll take the plunge with qud or something one of these days.
Having recently rediscovered Noita on UA-cam, and being astonished by just how much more there was then that one day I found the concept fun, struggled to get anywhere or make any skill, then forgot to go back to it... I want to see Dosh's reaction or hear his opinion on it.
It seems to me that Noita would be every thing Dosh talk about in the video (exept the ASCII caracters) but he must have heard of it so much i don't think he wants to play it. If there is a chance however I would also be down for it 1000% !
Dosh focuses on making videos on obscure & lesser known games iirc so he probably won't get around to Noita since it has a big following these days, but he's talked about it briefly in the La Mulana video and one other I forgot the name of.
noita is... very much a special niche.
@@CongaYT I think he mentioned Noita in the TowerClimb video as well
Noita is one of the greatest games ever made and I love it to death.
My favorite game in the rogue* subgenre has to be Elona. So many references I never recognized, like the Puppy Cave.
You can play a game for a thousand hours and still not know the ancient references buried within.
I've lost ultra ending attempts in the dumbest ways. I had a ring of weakness farmed monk with 90+ in every stat that mattered and didn't realize I lost see invisible somewhere and just obliterated a friendly Khelevaster in Terinyo. I got to Andor Drakon (ahem, AnDoR DrAkOn) with a level 50 thief. Thief level 50 power was auto stun on hits, so I just permastunned Andor Drakon into teleporting randomly and I died of corruption. Just endless ways to fail, such a great game.
The thing with most of the skills and abilities being useless is actually accurate to tabletop pen-and-paper RPGs. Like with D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder 1st edition, there's a ton of choices when building your character due to the supplemental material released over the years, but 90% of them are useless or objectively worse than the best/optimal choice. The rest are sidegrades for utility or minor downgrades that you take because you want "flavor" for your character.
That's...not exactly making it better.
@@Nycoorias I'm not defending the game design or anything, I'm just saying that a lot of tabletop RPGs had the same problem. I personally find the coincidence endearing, but still acknowledge it as a fault.
i don't think i'll ever understand why its a problem, though. its one of many things where you're supposed to learn what's best or most optimal through actual experimentation; these games wouldn't be as fun (imo) if all options were correct options. a large part of the fun i think is that there absolutely are wrong choices to everything, and it just makes sense for that to apply to character creation as well
for more advanced players who already know the most optimal ways to play, intentionally choosing suboptimal abilities can be an interesting roleplay choice or just a fun way of challenging yourself even further
as a final point, though i've never played ADOM specifically, some of the skills he listed seemed specifically made to help out newer players learn certain mechanics, rather than to actually be used by experienced players
@@nibbletrinnal2289 I don't have a problem with suboptimal choices existing in games in and of itself, it's mostly the issue that it can lead to homogeneity if there is one optimized build that stands above all others. There is a big difference between wrong choices being slightly worse vs a fraction of the power of an optimized build. When I played Pathfinder with mostly new players I get a diverse and interesting party that struggles with basic combat. Not because lack of tactics, but because they didn't optimize character creation. With a (combat focused) experienced group it's always the same few builds repeated with minor variations. Some classes would never see gameplay because they were bad. I do look back on it fondly as it as part of the flawed 3.5/Pathfinder system, but I do not think it is good game design in general.
@@rokushou that's a good point actually, my earlier point forgot to take into account that players will almost always optimise all fun out of a game if given the chance
Whenever motivation to work on my own roguelike starts to wane, I come back to this video and it immediately gets me right back into the swing of things. This and the new Cogmind video have been some of the best motivators I've ever had to continue working on a project. So, thank you for this.
Nethack was what got me into the genre. Still my favourite to this day. It really deserves the tagline of 'The devs think of everything.'
Thanks so much for this video! Aside from being a general topic near and dear to my heart, ADOM in particular has been a nemesis of mine I've gone back to every so often for many years now. I probably could have gotten a normal win by now but my stubborn desire to get an ultimate win without TOO many spoilers means I've never gotten past the midgame. Well, I'm sure you get where I'm coming from. Seeing your summarized runs here felt good.
Maybe do another roguelike video some day? Pretty please? My vote would be for CDDA with the Bright Nights fork or ToME 2.3 (The old middle earth based one, not the new fangled thing.)
Very happy to see you covering classic roguelikes! I would love to see you check out some other ones, in particular I think Cogmind might be up your alley...
I mean, he mentioned Cogmind. And honestly there's like a 0.3% chance he hasn't already played it.
You mean the game he directly mentioned?
Yeah, I bet he’s heard of it.
Scrolled way too far to find a reference to cogmind, it's really beautiful and a new fresh of rogue like
Men, i know those types of videos don't get nearly as many views as your factorio one but please keep making them, they are so so good. Could hear you talk about the most random video games for hours and hours.
The whole thing that enraptured my younger years is the amount of play that the developers could have with expectations and interactions. Throwing a list of edibles down, and then recognizing "wait... We put a banana cream pie on that list. I want to throw it at an enemy" and then MAKING THAT DO SOMETHING.
Look up Nethack and how "the developers thought of everything" to see a list of interactions that may or may not cross the average person's mind. Like trying to put a sack into itself. Or resisting and surviving all the effects of an irate God's wrath. It's fascinating. And when all you have to worry about is text, with no animations or images? You can just... Write all the things.
I really like your style in your non factorio videos. It's like half review, half guide, half video essay. That's an extra half as good as most videos on youtube in my opinion. Excited to see whatever it is you post next.
ADOM is an amazing game. I remember playing it over 20 years ago. And I'm still able to identify the most dangerous monster at 12:34 , the game is just ingrained in my memory. The original ADOM is completely free. The only thing that the creator asked for is that you send him a postcard.
That's so cute! What a wholesome nerd desiring social interaction. Thank you for blessing me with this information
I sent him a post card back in the day.
I love his determination and commitment to the things he does because I know I don’t have that
That's an insane amount amount of potential to code for. I love how that last secret ending is even a thing.
fascinating to hear that the original idea of procedural generation was to solve the issue of not having enough space to hand craft all the levels they wanted.
Such ASCII roguelike compared to modern games is like a book compared to the cinematography.
Always pleased to hear your voice and feel my brain overflow with information to the degree where i'm sometimes unable to comprehend the visuals.
Please for the love of god keep making these videos, your variety content is way more enjoyable than your factorio challenges by a lot I think, and I always learn something new about games and game design when you upload one of these.
You started off with an Elona+ clip and now I am immediately invested. Such a good and utterly bonkers game.
Watched this while playing Barony
Not quite a classic roguelike, but definitely inspired by them. It even has a secret Sokoban level
directly inspired by Nethack, if I remember correctly!
yeahh!!! barony rocks 💙💙💙💙💙💙
Was my first roguelike when i was like 9. Quickly switched to nethack then cataclysm.
I used to play adom at work because nobody would guess that I was playing a game with graphics like that.
Banger video, loved seeing what people like about such a complex game explained in a non-dry way.
In case you were wondering I would love seeing more stuff like this from you.
Ancient Domains of Mystery? I remember my few attempts to play this game! Just reading the walkthrough for this game made it into an epic journey!
I never really got into ADOM, but I absolutely loved playing stuff like Tales of Maj'Eyal or Poschengband. I remember playing a ton of the latter as a cursed magic ring that other creatures had to pick up and put on before getting cursed and possessed by me.
Just casually dropping philosophical linguistic wisdom: "...language is not concerned with epistemological rigidity, it's about conveying information"
I remember ADOM, or more my friend's attempts at getting me to play it. It was a great game.
Funnily enough, one of the main things that prevent me from playing the more keyboard intense games is the fact that I use an Icelandic keyboard layout, and colon and semicolon are on shift+. and shift+, respectively.
I could rebind them, but with rouglikes, rebinding keys you don't even know the use of is a dangerous endeavour.
though i'm not entirely sure why that placement of (semi)colon keys is a problem, you could always just go into your system settings and add a different keyboard layout that you can just switch to when playing these games
@@nibbletrinnal2289 Correct, but now I have to memorize an entire new keyboard layout and internalize it because aside from the standard letters and numbers, every key is in a different place and the markings are there to help me with Icelandic.
It's problematic because a keybind like ;s will become ;S which may or may not work depending on the game. Or I have to let go of shift and then it might become ;,s which, again, may or may not work depending on the game.
keybinds should be on the same key irregardless of layout if they are implemented properly, but devs still get it wrong quite often unfortunately
Angband is a fantastic game that I love, so I love learning about other old roguelikes.
Nice new video! I never mind the diversity of the games you cover.
This video is wonderful, I love when dosh makes videos about games I've never heard of before, always gives me something new to try out.
I've played alot of CoQ, Cataclysm DDA, Dwarf Fortress and Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup in ASCII for 10+ years so everything translated very well. I was thinking about playing ADOM buy holy moly that sounds very convoluted. Almost sounds like a guide is required unless you can find all this naturally playing like digging through a wall to get to that boss. I usually end up playing one of the early 4 play some "newer" games realize I haven't played the others in a while in a cycle. Probably try Angband next cause im a sucker for middle earth.
Despite having never actually played this or any other ASCII graphics game on account of being a god damn zoomer, I didn't actually struggle to comprehend the graphics. Pattern recognition and prior experience with Autism Projects has prepared me for this.
0:27 same here. Cogmind was what introduced me to the genre and my god does it hold a spot near and dear to me. (Also shattered pixel dungeon for mobile)
Same here, glad I'm not alone
A small nitpick; Hack wasn’t a direct fork of Rogue. Basically what happened was a couple college students asked the Rogue developer for the source so they could fork it, and he said “lol no”. So they tried their best to replicate the dungeon-generation algorithms and made Hack, which later became NetHack.
Nice to see a dive into a traditional roguelike and their appeal. Life-long Angband player here, never beat it, probably never will. Love it to death.
My best run was up to the tower of flames where my equipment burned up. It's a fun game where the goal is not to win but to get better every time and learn from your mistakes. Everybody should try it. It's easy to get used to the ASCII after a few minutes actually and the screen is clean and conveys all the information. d is dogs, D is demons, f is felines, T is trolls.
I played this and Z-Angband a lot back in the days. Also the old version of Tome which was based on middle-earth and was completely retooled to the version that is now on Steam.
The restricted graphics of faithful rogue-likes allow for unique impressions based on the player's imagination, much like good old books, but there is a point at which strictly adhering to that style completely undermines the game's ability to be observed in the first place due to lack of accessibility. With the wide availability of free tools & assets for making games, the cost of development is practically equal to restricting yourself to ASCII. I won't berate developers who want to use the style for that imaginative purity or nostalgia of classics, but even the least bit of modernization in the UI can have a profound benefit in the game's reach. Additionally, there are mechanics that quite simply cannot be expressed without more information being given to the player than a colored shape with a text description.
I thought having your channel blow up because of factorio torture mods was rough but watching your other videos on the games you like (which are all great vids) makes me realize you are a true torture pilled gamer. God speed and ty for the vids you maniac.
Traditional roguelikes have to be one of if not my favorite idea game genre just so damn rewarding and fun!
Interestingly enough this is incredibly good to 'watch' when laying in bed, since the graphics are so rudimentary, you can just as well close your eyes and listen to your rambling while simply imagining the scenes, which arguably enhances the experience. This has become a comfort video to play when going to sleep.
I will always have a soft spot for roguelikes (and I'm talking old school like ADOM here). One of the first kinds of games I ever played was the original Rogue I used to play a lot on my grandpa's computer. My grandpa wasn't really an early adopter of gaming or a gamer at all, but for some reason, he played the heck out of Rogue. I was too young to really get good at it, but it didn't stop me. Eventually, I discovered my first roguelike, Nethack. I played the crap out of it as much as you played ADOM. My second runner up for most played would be ToME (used to be Tales of Middle Earth once upon a time). I didn't get into ADOM or Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup until quite a few years later, but I enjoyed those as well. Maybe I'm a bit of a snob here, but I feel a lot of newer games that take the roguelike moniker bastardize the term. It's like... as long as they can vaguely tie one of its mechanics to the original Rogue, the game is automatically a roguelike.
Wow, the only game I ever managed to wrap my brain around is Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, but this is on completely another level. Also, respect for posting a youtube video, where majority of screen time is a bunch of letters on a black background.
I think it's more about the expectations. when i was 11 i would play dwarf fortress and not have any issues with it, and those memes about it being "the hardest game ever" etc, didn't exist at the time, so i never got the expectations that it would be an impossible game to play and just played it and had a good time, i was capable of making self suficient colonies etc, and i barely knew how to speak english at the time.
DF's complexity is highly overstated.
Then again, maybe I'm just one of the ones who knows, but it's not that complicated to dig a hole, grow plump helmets, and then make booze out of them. It can be a bit complex if you're trying to make a complex military squad instead of just relying on traps or drawbridge atom smashers.
DF's complexity comes more so from learning how to handle the dwarves than from the other mechanics.
DF ins overly complex, and has never been. The only mechanical challange is handling stress, and thats mostly just bugs anyway.
What the game is, is open. You are free to do a lot of dumb shit you have no reason to, vesifes your own autism, and that can get quiet tricky to pull off.
Clear glass palaces in hell and all that.
This video was super helpful for me gathering ideas for my ASCII roguelike!
Then may I recommend my recent video on Cogmind as well
@@DoshDoshington Already watched it! Also watched your video on Marrow. Love your content, subscribed!
Dosh, my guy. You can't bring up Ancient Domains of Mystery, Now I'm sitting here remembering my first run and how it made me think of Rogue... Yes C:\games
ogue>rogue. Now I feel old as fuck.
Wow, you made me return to Cataclysm after several years of wanting to. And while it isn't really a roguelike, more of a survival immersive sim, rogue-like complexity is what draws me in it. And you reminded me just how exciting and fun this can be. Great video, I think describing your runs is a great way to introduce roguelikes to someone. Thank you.
ADOM is so great, I tried it after I got addicted to TOME along with a ton of other traditional roguelikes. Definitely a genre I think a lot of people should try so they can understand the influences and legacy more but also a genre I know most people wouldn't enjoy playing.
As a guy who knew nothing about games like this in-depth I really enjoyed this video! Keep it up!
Maybe once I'm done learning vim I'll give this a go. I'll need another inscrutable system to learn with dozens of weird key binds to learn
I've used vi (vim) for decades, and two weeks ago a coworker showed me a command I didn't know about.
Never stop learning! 😅
You know, I started watching you for the Factorio stuff, but at this point I think I like the random introspections of randomer video games better
I just watched a whole video with nothing but meaningless ascii text and no context for why the ascii is now out to get me, and yet I sat here not knowing what was going on and was highly entertained. 10 out of 10
2:37 best Indiegogo support graphic ever.
The little artistic touches and memes are well done and in good taste. A good metric for how passionate and creative the developer is.
3:08: I had the same experience with Dwarf Fortress tilesets. Though it doesn't help that those old fan-made tilesets tended not to distinguish between different types of terrain...
2 things:
1: sometimes I forget your channel is secretly 3 i would sub to in the same vessel
2: this explains so much about you.
Commenting for the algorithm, of course. I truly adore these non-factorio videos. It's sad they get fewer views, cus I genuinely think they're just as good as, if not better than, the Factorio content.
if you get your channel stuck in a specific niche its like building a new channel when u try to branch out
Unironically some of my favorite content of yours so far. Despite my lack of familiarity with the original material hearing about the general plan and the strategies required to pull that off is very entertaining.
Great stuff!
Puppy Cave? Blessing water on an altar? Now I see where Elona took all those inspirations from.
in a lot of ways classic roguelikes are like the best (and worst) parts of classic adventure/puzzle games mixed with the most arcane rpg systems possible, and that's a lot of what i love about them! the richness of games like dcss and nethack when i was younger in spite of them being 100% completely free was a big part in my growing up fairly poor and still playing games at all.
nethack in particular is such special thing to me, as completing that game took my middle/highschool self many, many years of trial and error and varying degrees of spoilers to finally ascend, and when i finally *did* (live on a public server no less) it felt like one of the most immense accomplishments of my young life.
>Back when
What do you mean I still play ascii based games on a regular basis.
I really enjoyed the combination of the video's ASCII graphics and your detailed but direct explanations. Would happily enjoy a narrated longplay of you playing this game while discussing your choices without needing to provide context or clear explanation.
doshua doshington i gotta say, this video got my boyfriend addicted to ADOM and now he randomly tells me about how much he hates ant warriors or gets into rambling the full replay of his run when he died by eating a kobold corpse, he has now resorted to using the wiki whenever he wants to eat a body
thank you for the content, both the video aswell as the content my bf generates in talks together, but also fuck you for the fact he will now randomly dissapear for hours at a time and when I check steam he was playing all that time and come back with a great story on how he died
Ha, it's amazing to me that I've inspired someone to play ADOM in 2024
@@DoshDoshington shit he even plays it in ascii too, i can't even comprehend what the hell is happening on screen every time he shows me it like
"why is that letter following you"
"Oh he's a guy who's been cursed so if I bring him to this priest I will learn healing"
"ah.... I see..."
"Dosh did it in the video"
"ooooh yeah I remember now"
thank you for the free content
This is the kind of hyper-nerd content that I live for!
I'm kind of in-between being an outsider and being a fan of 'traditional' roguelikes -- I enjoyed reading a comprehensive playthrough of NetHack ages ago but every attempt to play it myself afterwards ended in abject, disappointing failure. The combination of requiring a great deal of knowledge for success while eagerly punishing you for trying to learn things yourself often makes these games a painful, unrewarding experience for those that don't find it intrinsically compelling to explore and unravel them.
Yet, I spent a lot of time playing DCSS (a long time ago now, back when it still had hill dwarves and hunger) and even got a winning run with a couple extra runes along with many heartbreaking near-misses... the exquisite, empowering feeling when you start to meaningfully part the mists of these monolithic games, when you start taking your first conscious steps towards mastery, that is a feeling of accomplishment that is impossible to replicate. Can a game with more of a focus on accessibility (or meta-progression, or other deliberate gameplay hooks) still give you that feeling?
(For the record, despite the majority of my roguelike time being spent playing DCSS with tiles, I can still parse what is happening in this video most of the time -- Dwarf Fortress and CDDA trained me in the ancient ways of ASCII-sight)
While it's a bit of a sidestep to the topic of this video, considering that its proper Roguelike mode is somewhat underdeveloped and the primary game is the simulation aspect, I am genuinely impressed that you've managed to write this script while avoiding even a singular mention of Dwarf Fortress.
Hey, you have some of the most unique and interesting videos relating to obscure games I've ever seen, I love how indepth and good at explaining things you are, and your sense of humour is great too. I know Factorio is your main content, but I and I'm sure many others would adore some variety content on even more random obscure games you enjoy- They're really quite fascinating and entertaining to watch, so keep it up! :)
A new DoshDoshington video? And a 48 minute one about actual roguelikes? Let's go!
EDIT: And you're already namedropping Castle of the Winds, which was also my first roguelike. 😊
I've played roguelikes for many years now. Usually when people are mentioning them nowadays they speak about roguelites. When you've mentioned in one of your videos the traditional ones i was real excited and it was worth the wait.
I've seen the new ADOM because a guy I watch on Twitch used to do a "Roguelike Month" and specifically played things like Caves of Qud, ADOM, and Cataclysm. You know, actual roguelikes.
It also grinds my gears when people call games roguelikes that aren't roguelikes just because they have one quality that can be found in roguelike games such as randomization/procgen. I think by the most stringent definition it at least has to be turn based and have permadeath with no meta progression system. It especially annoys me when games that literally reward you for dying are called roguelikes.
The xore emllements of Anngband and rogue were the turn based combat, procgen maps and rpg progression.
I would argue CRPGs like Diablo or PoE, and turn based tactics games like XCom or Into the Breach are closer to them in spirit than the arcade action games like binding of isaac or risk of rain that people have come to call roguelike. But by strict definition, the genre is almost dead. The only no open source project I can think of that qualifies is swortld of the stars the pit.
@@egoalter1276 Surely Caves of Qud qualifies?
@@kallemort Fair. Theres also quasimorph and cogmind.
It's neat how there are some kinda specific parallels are between ADOM and Elona. Stuff like the Puppy Cave corruption/etherwind and wishes or even overcasting, the hunger descriptions and eating mostly anything. Though I don't know if that goes even further back to older Rogue games.
Just won a tournament and now a new dosh video? how can this night get better
I like a lot these non factorio videos, it is fun to see into other peoples head for the brief time of a video like this
"More about learning the game than memorising it" is exactly why I like roguelikes, too. You have to learn to be good at the game, not just memorise how to deal with certain very specific situations. That's much more satisfying.
I know most of your content is Factorio, but I really liked this video. But I just wanted to say that I'm here for your presentation and explanation/narration style, this was a great video
I don't even see the code anymore. All I see is blonde, brunette, cockatrice,
21:22 i love the part that says "this ability costs 1-3 mana, which may as well be a permanent loss, since it takes forever to regain it. . ."
Why wasn't he using a tileset:
"It was actually making me worse at the game because i couldn't recognize any of the enemies"
B r u h
This was a great video. Love explorations into games like this. They often feel esoteric and mysterious to me. So seeing it explained so casually is quite entertaining
You leave my shapeshifting wife of the night out of this!
Long time Cataclysm player here, I really enjoyed this video. It's interesting to hear the history of this genre and I also found your overview of a run of ADOM fascinating.