Why do Ultralight Backpackers Hate Bushcraft Survivalists So Much

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  • Опубліковано 14 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 103

  • @jdude9922
    @jdude9922 9 днів тому +12

    I do both bushcrafting and UL hiking and live right along the colorado/CDT trails. I also trail stuard through the hiking season.
    The reason bushcrafters get a bad name is because, in my experience, many of them are disrespectful of nature and the experience of others in nature.
    Often they build their camps right next to or no more than 50 ft from the trail. Often they dont remove their camp when they leave and they build their camps in places where they should not be. We build designated camp sights to minimize human impact of wild life, water, terrain, and to keep people safe.
    Even after i rip down an abandon bushcrafter site, theres such a scar that people often try to camp there or wear a trail through the forest to go inspect what they think is a campsite. There was recently am area that got so scarred that we ended up closing a section of trail for a season to let the forest recover.
    There is also nowhere near enough education about good practice for bushcrafting: dont leave scars on trees, dont make fires on alpine tundra, dont cut down live trees, dont alter the flow of rivers and streams, etc.
    In short the concept of leave no trace is largely lost in the bushcraft community and that is what UL backpackers value above all else. They see the effects of poor bushcraft practice constantly, hense, the dislike.

    • @kevinroche3334
      @kevinroche3334 9 днів тому +1

      That's not bushcraft, that's kiddy kamping!

    • @ScoutsHonorBB
      @ScoutsHonorBB 9 днів тому

      "the concept of leave no trace is largely lost in the bushcraft community and that is what UL backpackers value above all else."
      Except then ultra-lighters will make every excuse in the book for POC cultures who practice ultra-violence and throwing trash everywhere, and being as loud and aggressive as possible.

    • @quinlan-sf7nj
      @quinlan-sf7nj 9 днів тому +2

      I've been watching bushcrafting videos for ten years. Nearly 100 % contain verbage or video stressing the concept of "leave no trace". The hiking videos are basically the same.
      Recognizing that bad apples are in both barrels, I can not agree with your position. But maybe it did wake up a few bad apples!

    • @thomasmusso1147
      @thomasmusso1147 9 днів тому +1

      Yes. It does not take many to spoil it for the majority .. give them a bad name.
      My beef is with so-called 'survivalists and bushcrafters' who cut down / damage living resources in order to build 'overnight / one night emergency shelters' when there is no need to do so.
      With the technology we have at our disposal today (tarps, etc, etc) one can practice Bushcrafting and Survival to their hearts content without damaging the Environment.
      Anyone who goes Out not being adequately prepared, is an Idiot of the First Order. That includes ALL Environments!
      Fire. In my local Swiss Forest, I only use wood that has been left behind after the Forestry Services has done some management therein. In preparation for the cold 'wet' season, I harvest some of this detritus and sun-dry it on my flat balcony and then take it with me when needed. My fires are usually small twig fires, using 'Hobo Cookers' and a Bushbox LF Folding Wood Stove. Heat .. it is surprising how effective a shiny aluminium folding windscreen can be reflecting heat towards one.

    • @HeidiWellnitz
      @HeidiWellnitz 8 днів тому +1

      @@jdude9922 I don’t think it is one group over the other not respecting leave no trace. It is the individual who does not care, not the groups as a whole. I hike, and backpack, and have seen plenty of them ignoring leave no trace. We need to do what we can to help each other out, and educate. Even if you educate, some just don’t care. In this case call them out online, and post their pic, if you can.

  • @heibk-2019
    @heibk-2019 8 днів тому +9

    They dont? I do both...just two different activities.

  • @Buffenmeyer
    @Buffenmeyer 16 годин тому +2

    I get the sense that ultralight backpackers are oriented toward movement - starting at point A and ending at point B. Whereas bushcrafters seem to hike into a location and remain there for a time to practice and hone their bushcraft skills. There are similarities, but their objectives differ.

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  15 годин тому

      That’s a great observation of a key distinction. Both share in a love of nature.
      Happy hiking!

  • @bangalorebobbel
    @bangalorebobbel 13 годин тому +2

    Interesting comparision but I do not think it makes much sense to compare people who's primary goal it is to walk over a long distance with less heavy rucksacks with people who's goal it is to carry something completely ignoring its weight and then sit in the bush and hone their skills in practising handcraft stuff like carving, constructing, weaving, making ropes from natural materials and so on.
    That is to me a bit like comparing a trucker with a vehicle mechanic - yes, both might use once in a while a wrench and both might have to do with vehicles and even wear once in a while oily shirts, but they do completely different things and have completely different approaches to their work.
    One can be even both - doing any trail for a while and then practising bushcraft at home, or being a mechanic yet driving a truck every once in a while. And it might be very helpful to think both the ways in the right situation. But we have to clearly differentiate. You can be a son and a father at the same time but both things are simply different.
    And honestly I do not even understand why UL hikers might scoff at the mention of survival practioners or bushcrafters or whoever else, because these people don't have much common with them except maybe using titanium mugs, or sleeping sometimes in the forest. Means they might even wear the same underwear or socks and use the same tooth paste but nobody compares them because of that particular similarities, and nobody in one of these groups would hate the others for using the same tooth paste but doing else everything different.
    .Well, yet you gave me nice input and entertainment, and I hope you laugh as well about my output and how easily you triggered it ... ;-)

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  11 годин тому +1

      Phenomenal explanation.
      Im an ultralight hiker and a bushcraft enthusiast. I’m a son and a dad and was at one time a truck driver but certainly never a mechanic 😉
      You are spot on, the two can at times be completely different even with sharing multiple similarities.
      I consider this mission accomplished! I certainly don’t intent to trigger the amount of hostility that’s been in some of the replies but was hoping to engage folks in thinking outside of their comfort zone and see that in the end, despite our many differences, we also share many similarities.
      Thanks for engaging!
      Happy hiking!

  • @paul7754
    @paul7754 8 днів тому +2

    As a 'survivalist' I take from both. I live in the southwest and I spend as much time in the desert as I do in the trees. In the desert there are few trees for bushcrafters to run ridgelines between or use as fuel for fire. The weight of extra water for desert journey is hardly ultralight. The REAL differences are philosophical - bushcraft relies on 'using the environment' for sustainment while the ultralight crowd tends to be more 'environmentally conscious' (greenies) and are mindful of their impact. Again as a survivalist I take advantage of the surroundings AND tend to 'leave no trace' in the event I wish not to be found. I will tend to use a hiking stove rather than fire (campfire is illegal half the year anyway) and usually only carry a tarp/poncho/blanket for shelter (pre freezing temps). Carrying 25 lbs. of water (3 gals.) is typical for weekends in the desert unless you know source locations. Bushcraft is really just an evolution of wilderness survival while ultralight backpackers are typically simply advanced trail hikers.

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  День тому +1

      It’s a great point you make about the philosophical differences in the two styles of backpacking. It's all about finding what works for you and enjoying the outdoors.

  • @linusyootasteisking
    @linusyootasteisking 9 днів тому +6

    The way I understand these terms, and the fundamental difference, is that bushcrafters tend to stay put at one campsite, while backpackers tend to hike from place to place each day on their set route. So it makes sense that backpackers value lightness. I see a lot of "bushcrafters" having very extravagant camps and gear. I don't know anything about the history of bushcraft and the term. But abstracting from all the bushcraft content I've seen, I would not have said it's about minimizing number of articles in the gear, it feels more like camping (usually in wooded areas) and using as mush as possible of environmental resources as gear, but there is also a sub-dimension of "primitive/technological". However, emphasis on the camp, not on traveling. Campfire is part of this "environmental utility", but backpackers need to be able to cook without forests, so usually carry a gas stove.
    Very often people drive out with gear and only carry it between car and camp. I would imagine driving out gear is blasphemous for backpackers, who would (I supose?) feel more pure in their souls if they carried it all the way (or from a travel station). I guess people get their identity entwined with these terms. Obviously, you need to be able to carry your gear, so just scale it to how muck walking you need to do. I've never felt the need to identify as anything more specific than "outdoorsman/enthusiast", and adjusting gear to how much walking/biking there will be on a particular trip. On a cartrip, you can pack a lot of luxuaries.

  • @ownlydown5933
    @ownlydown5933 9 днів тому +6

    Im just some dude that wants to go camping, whether in a car or back country lol

  • @DetraDearmas
    @DetraDearmas 8 днів тому +2

    My 12 year old granddaughter and I just had this conversation. And we boiled it down to how each enjoys the outdoors. Backpackers prefer manufactured gear, whereas bushcrafting is about tools and the enjoyment of making what is needed or wanted. That being said, we both agreed to try bushcrafting for a while. She's 12, by the way, and I'm grandma. Always ok with a new way to enjoy nature!

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  8 днів тому +1

      @@DetraDearmas it sounds to me that your granddaughter is wise beyond her years.
      Happy hiking to you both!

  • @Olyphoto7
    @Olyphoto7 9 днів тому +4

    Bushcraft is how many of us got started, minimal gear, low budget and over several years we managed to replace heavier gear with new lighter and expensive gear. The prices I see on ultralight gear pushes me back to old school. Tents we bought back in the day were a few hundred dollars and weighed north of five or six pounds and I still have some of that gear because it was made to last.
    As I see it, money plays a part in what some of us choose to do.
    Hot topic based on some of the comments.

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  9 днів тому +1

      That’s an interesting perspective on the relationship between gear and hiking styles. I think you’re spot on.
      I too got started very young with a good hatchet and a spirit for adventure. As I’ve gotten older and my knees have worn, I’m learning an appreciation for lighter and lighter gear

    • @Olyphoto7
      @Olyphoto7 9 днів тому

      @@northwestwalking my wife and I want to do a 30th anniversary of a long hike we did in 1998, so we have less than three years to train and acquire lighter equipment. Mostly lighter packs, pads and quilts. I’m hoping to convince her we can just use a tarp rather than a tent. So I imagine I’ll be buying a tent 😆

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  9 днів тому +1

      @Olyphoto7 I think that’s a guarantee 😉
      Happy hiking!

  • @kennethwilson8633
    @kennethwilson8633 2 дні тому +3

    Bushcraft is the art of drinking craft beer in the woods or bush … they don’t care what the gear weighs are but never carry even the lightest tent stakes so they can carve some every time while making a video. Ultra light backpackers only have half a toothbrush but never bathe and carry pounds of dirt and stink like skunks…both groups camp in the woods with camera gear and ignore the natural beauty and usually talking over the peaceful silence.

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  День тому +1

      @@kennethwilson8633 ha! You sir have boiled us down to our most primal nature.
      In all fairness, when I go ultralight I do brush my teeth. 😉
      And I gave up beer years ago so when I bushcraft I have to settle for hot cocoa 😎
      Love the great comments and the support!

    • @kennethwilson8633
      @kennethwilson8633 День тому +1

      @ I was just kidding around any time in nature is great and I’m with you on the hot chocolate or a coffee myself too.

  • @krazyking3607
    @krazyking3607 8 днів тому +4

    You can't be prepared for everything and you will never know everything. Mother nature doesn't discriminate. Both preparedness and knowledge are very important. I saw the saying "The more you know the less you need" don't say that you're going to get people killed.

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  8 днів тому +1

      @@krazyking3607 I’ve certainly taken some unnecessary risks in my time and the one thing I continue to learn is that my skills and knowledge are never quite as good as I think they are. 😉

  • @kevinroche3334
    @kevinroche3334 9 днів тому +6

    I wouldn't say weight is not an issue for bushcrafters, maybe less of an issue. My back and knees will certainly tell me that I'm carrying too much! I guess another difference is that, generally, bushcrafters are planning to stay put in one place (so can dump the weight for a while), while ULs are planning on getting from A to B as fast as possible, so weight matters - though I think they go too far - good luck scaring a bear off with half a toothbrush and a tyvek handkerchief!

    • @ScoutsHonorBB
      @ScoutsHonorBB 9 днів тому +2

      Or scaring off an ambush of banditos from the prisons of Venezuela that ultra-lighters welcomed into America with open arms.

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  9 днів тому +1

      @@kevinroche3334 my knees are certainly letting me know these days that a lighter kit is a lot more comfortable 😎

    • @thomasmusso1147
      @thomasmusso1147 9 днів тому +1

      The knees .. yep 🙄😏.
      At 74, mine are past their sell-by date 😁.
      I no longer 'backpack' (distance multi-day hiking) .. rather mostly 'day-trips' using when necessary, public transport (here in Switzerland it is excellent) to get closer to where I wish to walk. If my loadout is heavier and / or the distance on foot a wee bit more than I would consider comfortable, I have a Backpack on a Shopping Trolley Frame setup (the pull-along two-wheeler type) that works extremely well for me. No load on back, hip joints or knees .. and I can then include some extra 'comfort' items 😊.

  • @FinnTheHuman88
    @FinnTheHuman88 5 днів тому +2

    In bushcraft, you bring an axe to make your own stakes. In ultralight, you bring your own stakes so you don’t have to bring an axe. Just two different activities that aren’t in conflict.

  • @riversandcoffee
    @riversandcoffee 7 днів тому +1

    Well, you did it now Jeremy... You poked the bees nest.... 🤣 The comments are wild... You rocked it buddy... Full support 👍👍👍

  • @toocleanpappas5397
    @toocleanpappas5397 7 днів тому +1

    They don't. Next question.

  • @electrictour
    @electrictour 7 днів тому +1

    Very interesting and pleasant
    Great video, thanks for sharing 👍Like
    Greetings from new subscriber and friend 😀

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  7 днів тому

      Thanks for the support!
      Just trying to open conversations and get folks excited about the great outdoors!

  • @OPMfan65
    @OPMfan65 8 днів тому +2

    The philosophy of both activities are different. Although backpacking emphasizes lightweight gear, it subscribes to the "Leave No Trace" attitude, whereas Bushcraft is used more in a survival scenario, where exploiting the environment i.e. cutting down wood/tree parts for fuel or shelter, digging holes, moving stones is not an issue as long as they can be used for one's survival.

    • @JO-rk5gu
      @JO-rk5gu 8 днів тому +2

      We (Bushcrafters) also believe in leaving no trace, when I leave a site, you would never know anyone had been there. Also, there is a huge misconception about cutting down live trees, that is just not true. We use dead standing or fallen trees only. I have been on hiking trails and found water bottles and energy bar wrappers littered everywhere, so not all backpackers follow what you subscribe to

    • @pennsyltuckyreb9800
      @pennsyltuckyreb9800 8 днів тому

      "Leave no trace" is easily done as well in "bushcraft" if one chooses to do so. A bit more work to cover up the presence than a typical UL'er, but still easily done.
      I've seen BOTH thru hikers and "bushcrafters" totally F up the woods.

  • @Kangsteri
    @Kangsteri 9 днів тому +3

    The more you know, the less you need...

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  9 днів тому

      @@Kangsteri and we are always learning!
      Thanks for the great comment!

  • @amalielaursen1280
    @amalielaursen1280 23 години тому +1

    That's a fun video.
    I have never thought ultra lighters hate bushcrafteres. Maybe because thats not the case for me. I use skills and knowledge from both styles. I dont ever need an axe, i can lay directly on the ground sleeping in some conditions. If there is a risk of being cold i will bring ultra light gear. I absolutely hate to be cold. But if my gear one day somehow failes, it is very nice to know how to build a fire and survive otherwise.

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  23 години тому +1

      You and I are of the same mind. I live to incorporate aspects from both hiking/camping style into my adventures. To me, whatever form of hiking, backpacking, or camping you choose, it’s always a good idea to learn and understand as much as possible.
      Thanks for watching and for the great insight.
      Happy hiking!

  • @allkindsofoutdooractivities
    @allkindsofoutdooractivities 2 дні тому +1

    Nice share

  • @BuckMckawtheotherone
    @BuckMckawtheotherone 9 днів тому +1

    It would be interesting to have the two walk, say, the CDT, together, side by side, The problem is, the thru hikers look for speed, and cover much distance in a day. Bushcrafters smell the roses, and like to peruse the environment for useful stuff, taking time to enjoy the surroundings. Still, it would be interesting if the two could actually walk together the entire CDT. What do you think?

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  9 днів тому +2

      @@BuckMckawtheotherone you know there’d be some great conversations around the camp in the evening.
      You’re spot on about the speed difference. I’ve found when I Lightpack in more focused on getting the miles in while my bushcraft adventures are more relaxed and mellow.
      Both great experiences but vastly different in the form of satisfaction

  • @HeidiWellnitz
    @HeidiWellnitz 9 днів тому +1

    You can have great food on trail. Make and dehydrate it yourself. Not me, emergency and safety is very important to me.

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  9 днів тому +1

      Absolutely! I agree, it's important to be prepared, but I'm all about a good meal on the trail too.

  • @neilleggatt7729
    @neilleggatt7729 13 годин тому +1

    Bushcrafters walk 70 yards to their camp weight doesnt matter

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  11 годин тому

      Hey now, I walked at least 200 yards to make the video 😉

    • @neilleggatt7729
      @neilleggatt7729 9 годин тому +1

      @northwestwalking to that I raise a glass

  • @CoastGord
    @CoastGord 9 днів тому +3

    Hate is pretty strong word...did somebody bully you on the trail? Just a suggestion, of course, but one should try steering away from such polarising language.
    Mors Kochansky once quipped "the more you know the less you carry"

    • @thomasmusso1147
      @thomasmusso1147 9 днів тому

      It offends you .. figures ..

    • @CoastGord
      @CoastGord 8 днів тому

      @@thomasmusso1147 that's a curious response. How does it 'figure'? How am
      I offended?

    • @thomasmusso1147
      @thomasmusso1147 6 днів тому +1

      ​@@CoastGord Read your original response. I'm not going to s p e l l it out for you.

    • @CoastGord
      @CoastGord 6 днів тому

      @thomasmusso1147 'muricans...am I right? 😂

  • @joshuatall8134
    @joshuatall8134 9 днів тому +2

    Great , informative video!

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  9 днів тому

      @@joshuatall8134 just trying to have a little fun and short we are all in this together
      Thanks for the feedback 😎

  • @PaulAlanWheeler
    @PaulAlanWheeler 9 днів тому +8

    Why are you making shit up?

    • @thomasmusso1147
      @thomasmusso1147 9 днів тому +3

      You must be one of those 'Ultra-Lighters' ..

    • @toocleanpappas5397
      @toocleanpappas5397 7 днів тому

      Agreed. 11 Thru-hikes and never heard a single hiker even talk about bushcraft survivalists.

  • @dilloncain
    @dilloncain 8 днів тому

    i like how "hate" isn't what you call controversial.
    clickbait garbage

  • @susanp.collins7834
    @susanp.collins7834 10 днів тому +2

    We don't. Where do you get that from? Nobody hates anybody (except me - I hate Vladimir Putin. And I believe some people hate Donald Trump. Which is a total mystery to me as how anybody can hate that darling, moral, pure, upright, God-fearing man, I CAN'T IMAGINE.) As for ultralight backpacking - man up and carry it, guys!

    • @PosProductions
      @PosProductions 9 днів тому +2

      I agree with your sentiment but haha I have no idea where these political statements came from

    • @northwestwalking
      @northwestwalking  9 днів тому +1

      Just a little humor to keep us all getting along 😉

    • @ScoutsHonorBB
      @ScoutsHonorBB 9 днів тому +3

      @@PosProductions Putin stands in the way of Greater Israel. Susan will never even wonder who owns the media conglomerates she trusts to shape her worldview. She won't even wonder why every president and candidate really really really really loves Israel.

    • @thomasmusso1147
      @thomasmusso1147 9 днів тому

      😳 .. what?
      Putin is one of the 'good guys' .. better then many (l live in Switzerland (not the USA Bubble) and don't believe much of the BS the MSM serves to the Sheep.
      Trump? 👍. Potentially good for USA Domestic Policy .. he has a HUGE doorstep to sweep clean .. deep state, etc, etc. He fubar'd it last time .. hopefully he has learned something and has not also been bought and paid for by, inter alia, the Tribe and Military Industrial Complex.
      MAGA .. but keep his nose out of Global Politics.

    • @JO-rk5gu
      @JO-rk5gu 8 днів тому

      More than half the country voted for him, so maybe it's "you"

  • @PMurray2694
    @PMurray2694 9 днів тому +3

    Ultralight is for fairies, they should try getting stronger

    • @msamour
      @msamour 9 днів тому +2

      Naw they're good! Bears eat the ultra light backpackers. The meat is more lean...