My 1861 hesalite is my everyday work watch. I added the new 3861 bracelet to it, and when I want to dress it up, I put the OEM leather strap. If I want to dress it down, I put a vintage leather strap or OEM NATO. Best watch IMO, it's luxury, a tool watch, versatile, it doesn't get attention other than watch people. The only drawback.... water resistance and you have to keep it away from electromagnetic areas (computer rooms, metal detectors). The best bang for buck luxury watch. Everyone from Seiko owners to seasoned vintage Patek owners will give you a nod of approval. The other bang for buck watch would be a Tudor Black Bay 58.
When I bought my 3861, local A/D's had a few1861's available...no discount. However, 3861's could be had with discount. Very difficult to speak of value. That can only be decided by the person who spends his money. Also you really didn't point out the much improved wearability of the 3861. For those of us who cannot wear an 1861 comfortably, the cheaper price really doesn't figure in the purchase decision. In the UK, we were talking about a £1000 difference. If you add up all the many, many advantages & improvements of the 3861, the extra cost was more than good value...it was a bargain.
Agree with you. 1861 is only worth if its at least 1500usd cheaper. else go for 3861. There movement is better, the watch will have longer warranty, and the bracelet is comfortable.
I got my 2017 version with the big box and screw links for £2700 earlier this year. I think I’m going to sell the box and all the stuff it comes with (hopefully for around £300-400) to subsidise the watch even further
I don’t know about prices going up, at least not for a few years. There are so many 1861s in circulation, scarcity is not going to be an issue for quite a while. Besides, I didn’t buy mine looking to sell it.
I would strongly suggest the reference 3590.50 gentlemen. The 861 movement is bulletproof, the solid case back sits better on the wrist, they aren’t nearly as top-heavy as the contemporary references and the dials age beautifully because they are the last of the tritium lume markers, thereby developing a lovely creamy patina. Even the ref 145.022 references from the 70s and 80s often do not age as well as the 90s 3590.50 references.
Certainly the outgoing 1861 model represents fantastic value for money. However the new model with hacking, the caliber 3861 movement, refined bracelet and updated dial tips it for me. Appreciate this is subjective, ultimately the best advice would be try both as they wear and feel different. One final point, not that any of my watches go anywhere near water, but 50m (3bar) water resistance is absolutely fine for everyday wear. TBH, if my lifestyle included regular swimming with a watch, this wouldn’t be the timepiece I’d choose. Anyway, great vid and keep up the good work😊
"if my lifestyle included regular swimming with a watch, this wouldn’t be the timepiece I’d choose." For good reason. These watches are prone to leaking.
Hi 👋, really liked your hot take here. What I would say (I just bought the new one) is that IMO €1000 more for the new version is not a massive price hike. You have to remember that they spend 4 years working on the movement in order to get it to fit and still shaved .7mm off the overall case height. The movement changes too are extremely tangible and bring it into the the 21st century. Mine runs at +2 seconds per day, it hacks, it’s anti magnetic to 15000 gauss. Real improvements, that are real world noticeable. The bracelet is far better, the clasp is a thing of beauty if a little basic in its functionality. But every single UA-camr has mentioned the price hike, and no one has ever expressed that the price hike might just be worth it. It’s still as cheap as chips compared to Rolex’s offering.
Thanks Oleg: I agree with you. In fact I actually have to agree with you because 2 months ago I bought this exact older version for the reasons you state. Mine was pre-owned but had never been worn and came in the luggage sized case with all the cool accessories. At $4,000 US I thought it was a bargain. The person I bought it from had the new 2021 version with the co-axial for $2,000 more. I don't think you could go wrong with either choice. But I knew the older version would not be available for much longer. The new version will be around for a long long time.
Glad l purchased my Speedy 1863 back in July 2020 while I was still waiting for my AD to give me the call for a Submariner. It’s one of my most loved and worn piece in my collection. One year later, my AD called to let me know my Submariner 124060 was ready for my collection! When I finally got the Sub, l thought I might want to sell the Speedy or perhaps upgrade to the 3861. However after trying the new Speedy, l prefer the older bracelet. So now content with Submariner 124060, Speedy 1863, Tudor Pelagos FXD in my collection. Now waiting for that call for the GMT Pepsi next 😅
Hello Oleg, great video! Im sooo happy, my wife just gifted me a new Omega Speedmaster Professional Moon Watch 3861 movement. I'm totally blown away as this is one of my top grail watches. I was actually looking for the discontinued model, but she surprised me with the new one. I still have to size it, can't wait to actually strap it on my wrist. Thank you for your wonderful videos. All the best 👍
Nice video. Personally i think the 3861 is a better watch and why i purchased one after selling a 1861 i had years ago, i couldn't fall in love with the watch because of the bracelet on the 1861. I always loved the moon watch, just couldn't related to the 1861 bracelet. It's all personal so just go with what you like!
Interesting point today Oleg. You're probably right, the 1861 model now could be bought with a discount from the AD and in the future it will probably go up in value. But if I had to buy one, I think I would go for the new model: the bracelet and mainly the movement worth the increased price in my opinion.
I have the old one 2017. I absolutely love it.. I was thinking about updating it for the new one but seeing videos like this makes me think is it worth the extra money. I think I might keep it and buy a couple of new bracelets for it.
50M water resistance is far more than 99.9% of people will ever need. Most importantly, every single 3861 Speedy has been actually tested to this depth in the METAS certification process. But, the previous 1861/1863 generation is definitely NOT 50M water resistant in real life, its common for these to leak even with swimming pool use. I've owned both and can say with confidence that the new one is the better one to go for if you can afford it, well worth the price difference. Another big bonus is that the sapphire version has been improved dramatically from the old one, I used to own the hesalite version and have now switched to the sapphire crystal.
exactly. I swam in a pool with my speedmaster and even though it was rated for 50m, I was made sure my wrist was above water99% of the time. I get out after 10 min and the watch fogs up. They should advertise it as 50m water resistant only for a couple of years after a full service (mine is a '69)
100% agree! I bought an 1861 two days after the new one became available. The changes I don't like bc Omega didn't change the few shortcomings the watch had ie micro adjustment. There were two left at my AD. Old stock now gone.
I got an 1861 too to replace one I had a while ago. Luckily I was able to get a new old stock on an alligator which is the one I really wanted and hunted for.
I bought the 2020 watch in Spring in 2021. I liked the look of the bracelet much better than the jubilee bracelet, but the selling point was the box. The 2020 version had the bigger display box with more Omega stuff in it. A foolish reason for sure, but I also got 10% off the hesalite model.
Even better reason to like the 1861: the movement is closer to the original, than the current coaxial one! Instead of throwing back into the moonwatch the 321 movement, Omega made it very expensive and exclusive... they missed the chance to create a moonwatch practically identical to the original moonwatch. So, the best and closest is the discontinued 1861. Forget the coaxial... if you want coaxial go for a normal Omega. Not the iconic moonwatch...
Better finishing on the 1861 too. No sharp edges here, more solid bracelet, nicer dial, better packaging, more attractive case, and better heritage. 1861 all the way.
I bought one in 1965 in Bern for about $150. It had a leather band. It is a "pre-Moon" version. I don't know if this has any effect on value. I used it as my daily watch for 20 years. The timer got used for developing film; to help when navigating in car rallies and flying (I was a pilot). It got cleaned a few times and somewhere along the line one of the timer buttons got changes and it does not look quite right. I would like to get it get it spruced up, but don't want to hurt the value. Can the face be cleaned without damage? Should I send it to Omega?
Pros for the 1861: price, movement used by NASA for many years, I love the grey dial (compared to the new darker dial), with no step, because it doesn't detract from the white hands - much more elegant and less busy and it makes the hands pop more.. and I love that there are more mili second markings - it looks better imo. So yes. The new one has it's pluses, but nope..1861 for me.. And I think it's the best watch to wear on a strap, so the bracelet thing is not an issue anyway (in my opinion of course... some people love bracelets)
I bought a one owner from new 2005 Speedy in immaculate condition with original box, service/i.d. cards & receipts. I bought my grail watch & have no regrets. I didn’t buy it to sell it. 👍🏼😎🇦🇺
Such a nice review. I have the „old“ 861 because it has the original caliber and mechanics from the 1969 moonlanding. I love it, it has been and still is my grail. 😎 It was important to have Hesalite and not Sapphire, because when it bursts in Space, you will not swallow the splinters. This is why todays astronauts are still getting the Hesalite version.
2 years later... You were bang on about the 1861 increasing in price. It's the last if the classic Speedmasters. I got mine for a decent price recently but they can sometomes go for very close to what RRP was in 2021.
Plenty of people have used their Speedmasters in proximity to water (swimming etc). As long as you make sure your gaskets are in good condition, as one should do for all watches, there's no reason it can't be a one-watch collection.
Great Video man! I actually just picked up an 1861 from an AD in Canada and for me, the 1861 is going to be the great start of a collection. Cheers from Canada.
When are you going over 50 meters underwater? I have lived close to the ocean and love the water all my life and I have probably never gone past 10 meters even when spear fishing.
I just got the ck 2998 in blue for a price way below what it goes for in chrono24. It's a watch I've been trying to get for 3 years now, and I've found it by chance. The watch is beautiful and all but suddenly died and I had to take it to Omega service center only to learn a great lesson. The watch is not a fake and it was not tampered with in any shape, however, the service cost is 1200$ and it takes an average of 4 to 6 months to service!! The moral of my story is that you have to factor in at least 1000$ over what you are paying for a worn regularly 5+ years old speedmaster.
861/1861 movement has been in production since 1968!!!! That’s no slouch & very historic. By the way in case one asks, the 1861 is the exact same movement as the 861 with the only difference being the plating finish.
I grabbed a brand new 1861 before they were gone! Im a big fan of the 3861 but Im sure it will be available for a long time. Thinking of getting a black Omega crocodile strap from my AD for it. Any thoughts? Great video my friend.
The Omega alligator strap is comfortable in my opinion. I bought a new Speedy 1861 on an alligator to replace a Speedy I had a while ago on a steel. The bracelet was nice, but I recall it made the watch too heavy and I used to always wear it on an aftermarket alligator strap. I thought again if I buy another Speedy I would get the alligator instead. And I think gator makes the watch look nicer.
I have 1861 for many years now and it has always been my favorite daily driver. 50m is enough even for swimming if you check water resistance from time to time. As much I like the new dial and the case changes I don’t like jubilee styling of the new bracelet. I does not fit the toolwatch character of the hesalite Speedy. I would love if they offered 1450 for hesalite and left this new jubilee for sapphire model. Anyway 1861 is for me a lifetime keeper. I do have 39mm Ex , but think could just live with speedy plus a cool seiko diver for heavy duty. ;)
To start with I must say Happy Birthday Mr Bond! Enjoy the extra snacks. Oleg, I shared your view entirely to the point that about a month ago I contacted the AD who had both 1863 (sapphire sandwich) and the 3861 sapphire in stock to compare them. You arguably get more for the money with the 1861 but after what must have been a very long time (pun intended) I left the store with the 3861 but the decision was very close to call. The new METAS movement and those small detail changes to the case and dial appealed as well. The bracelet in in a totally different league though. Add up these parts and I could just about justify the increase in cost. If I could wind the clock back I'd make the same choice. I have to agree though that for those on the fence for a new speedy the 1861 should be considered. Will it increase in value? Only time (another pun intended) will tell.
good video, agree with everything but one aspect; how do you imagine getting a discount on any watch? I've got a very good connection to my dealer and there is 0% discount on any model from any brand since the market skyrocketet recently. 10 yrs ago 10-20% on a rolex was normal when being a returning customer, but nowdays wont even get 1% on an omega. sad.
I am saving for the 2021 ‘sapphire sandwich’….I am infatuated with the new bracelet and Sapphire is a must for me…100m water resistance seals the deal. This is a one-time purchase and it will stay in my collection forever. I have 10 watches that are ‘forever’ watches. The other 30+ are not. Thanks for the great review!
I just got one of these a few months ago. I got it for around 4K USD in open box condition. (sapphire sandwich) It has been a great watch. The lug-to-lug is a bit long with the bracelet, but other than that, I really like the watch.
Definitely the best value play. In my opinion the speedy is the best watch period. That said, the rose gold model is my exit watch until there is a better release from Omega. Im just waiting till I could afford it without completely destroying my bank account
The most iconic watch imho, love it. But wouldn't have one myself - I'd want more wr, automatic, hacking and sapphire - & would struggle with the service costs... That's not any fault with the watch, just me being picky - but I shall have an Omega by November (Railmaster) Good video of one of my favourite watches, Cheers Oleg and many happy returns Bond 🎂🥂👍🏻👍🏻
I have the 1863 (sapphire) version. Not too familiar with the different movements but i hope i made the right choice! I paid $4k for it (no box or papers)
Its the best one out there, if you dont care about all that fanboy talk. Its the best version by far. Its way more premium and luxurious. You made a great purchase. Excellent price! I paid around 7000 USD for mine directly from Omega.
It’s a great watch but very expensive in comparison to other omegas and similar style grand seikos and it’s not easy to find discounted. I would rather get the globemaster or sm300 in terms of value.
@@cedarcanoe yeah it’s a great movement but is available on the seamaster which also has a great ceramic bezel and defensive dial, a helium escape valve and clasp with micro adjustments… for less money, which I find very odd. Until a year or so ago the Aqua Terra could be picked up new on the grey market for around £2750, similar money to a speedy or seamaster but now the price has increased very much in a short space of time. It is a great watch but I sold my last AT for £600 15 years ago so I couldn’t pay 7 times that for the new variant 😩 it would remind me too much of my old one and the low price I took back then haha
You make a great point. I'd go further and say we'll probably look back at this time and think 'I can't believe I bought a brand new Speedie for ~$6000CAD (or AUD in my case...)!!' As you say, after the NOS 1861's are gone, they'll jump up in price. I think they'll still sit just under the newer 3861 METAS cert. version for a while yet, but the gap will definitely close. One more thing: I'm not sure that the Speedie is the same 'everybody's first luxury watch' that it used to be? $6-$7K CAD is getting up there man! Myself and the guys I'm talking with? We've all been comfortable at around that $1-$1.5K USD (or $1.5-$2.5K CAD) mark for a while and are starting to lookwards spending $2.5-$3K USD on a Longines Avigation Big-Eye, a Certina DS Chronograph Automatic re-issue or Hanhart 417-ES... etc., etc. This is the price point that the Speedie traditionally filled.
One thing you didn't mention is the new 3861 movement is hackable. Some people want the ability to sync their time and prefer this feature. BTW, I was lucky to have the 1861 model and won't go for the 3861 upgrade at this point. Perhaps maybe later when the prices are lower in the grey market. thanks
To be fair it's a moonwatch in name only. The original had a different column wheel movement known as the cal 321. Calibres 1861/3 have never been to the moon. If you want an original moon watch, known as pre moon because its the model that was being produced before we went to the moon and the one decided upon by nasa, then you're going to pay twice the price. Omega did recently do the cal 321 as a limited edition reissue. I believe the price was about £12,000 but they sold out almost immediately. Used prices are about 15k.
I must admit I love both the 2020 and later versions. It is always a gamble to present a new version of an established brand though, and for future collectors the later version might have moved a bit too far from the original.
The movement is a master chronometer,also the movement still looks the same. But the look of the new speed master is brilliant,it has most of the features from the old speedies. So it’s 10 out of 10 from me
I like your videos but you're wrong about this. The new speedy is better in every way. Everything from the wearability, to the aesthetics, to the movement and bracelet... everything! Much of which isn't even opinion, it's fact. The problem is, they fixed too much stuff at once. That's why it makes it so hard to spend good money on the discontinued model.
Great post. So much of that stuff as you say, is fact. It's not open to debate at all. Better in every single possible way. FULL STOP. The old one is a great watch, but it's not going to see values increase.
This video is great.. huge help to me. Thanks. Been looking at the new 3861 but the 1861 was always the one I dreamt of... I think also its cheaper so a better prospect
I agree, a beautiful watch. Save some money. I don't know if it's just me but I'm not a fan of how the new clasp looks either. But that's just personal preference.
I got mine for 4200$ tax included just last week box and papers and warranty like new but I doubt you can find a great condition one for that cheap actually their prices are creeping up and no way they can be found for 3000$ like some mentioned.
I wouldn't mind buying the older model but I'd have to buy the new bracelet because the end links on the oyster style bracelet just protrude too far on my wrist. But that said for the money I'm spending at that point I should just buy the new speedy.
I have the older model and agree with bracelet end links protruding too much. Easy fix with just buying a bracelet from Uncle Seiko who does a few variations for the Speedy. I have 3 bracelets from this company and they are all good. The pick of the bunch is the 1450 president which looks a lot like the new bracelet and only costs $129.
Countless Moonwatch Refs have been discontinued. Aside from the vintage ones that are from the Apollo eras, the common modern ones from the last 30 years cost the same. There's just so, SO many of them. 3500$us all day long, endless supplies. And this last ref ran forever.
I looked into this for a month or so, got prices evaluated the market and didn't went to spend the extra on the new Speedy if I didn't need to, but after see this video ua-cam.com/video/8JyPFaiRAcI/v-deo.html and seeing the specs of the new one in comparison to the older one, the new one just blows the old one out the water I'm sorry to say. The upgrades to the movement mean you can beat the thing up and it'll keep going. So if you can, go the new one, it's worth it.
What 😂? The classic speedmaster will always have value on the secondary market,most of the people are buying the classic speedy,not the limited editions.
@@Ge0rGi. first, this message was 2 years ago in a much different market. Secondly, the Moonwatch is still barely over retail price in the secondary market when compared to the likes of its competitors. Omega oversaturated the Speedmaster.
@@triniboy05 no it didn’t,the classic speedmaster is preferred by most of the people,it’s more classic than the submariner. Look at Rolex ,many of the Rolex fans paid a ton of money over retail,now the Rolex market went down and they’ve lost a lot of money
@@Ge0rGi. what’s the premium of a Rolex Submariner over retail, compared to the premium of a Speedmaster compared to its retail, in the secondary market? You can like Omega more than Rolex all you want, but it’s clear that the secondary market value isn’t there.
The 3861 is good value, name ONE other watch on the market that is «as good» and is the same or cheaper price then the 3861 Speedmaster, that’s right, there isn’t any.
You can also add the 1861 has been used in space many times over. The 3861 hasn’t even been in the atmosphere yet. Btw….Mr Bond sounded like he was tap dancing in the beginning of the video lol
Firstly these old ones will not go up, secondly the bracket was horrendous and lastly it has nowt to do with the moon, it wouldn’t even be allowed in space as it’s Crystal. What’s with the dog, odd.
Nice video and the discontinued 1861 prices have gone up. At this point you are actually better off getting a new 3861 hesalite version as they go for almost the same price as the discounted 1861 and your getting a much better watch with new tech, comfort, and movement
Nothing wrong with any Speedy and let’s face it there are more than a few to choose from. They will always get a nod of the head from any watch enthusiast, however much as though I do like them I would rather have something a little bit different. Kinda has the Rolex Submariner vibe, a bloody great watch but lacks a little imagination. Then again different is not for everybody! 🤷♂️
My 1861 hesalite is my everyday work watch. I added the new 3861 bracelet to it, and when I want to dress it up, I put the OEM leather strap. If I want to dress it down, I put a vintage leather strap or OEM NATO. Best watch IMO, it's luxury, a tool watch, versatile, it doesn't get attention other than watch people. The only drawback.... water resistance and you have to keep it away from electromagnetic areas (computer rooms, metal detectors). The best bang for buck luxury watch. Everyone from Seiko owners to seasoned vintage Patek owners will give you a nod of approval. The other bang for buck watch would be a Tudor Black Bay 58.
When I bought my 3861, local A/D's had a few1861's available...no discount. However, 3861's could be had with discount. Very difficult to speak of value. That can only be decided by the person who spends his money. Also you really didn't point out the much improved wearability of the 3861. For those of us who cannot wear an 1861 comfortably, the cheaper price really doesn't figure in the purchase decision. In the UK, we were talking about a £1000 difference. If you add up all the many, many advantages & improvements of the 3861, the extra cost was more than good value...it was a bargain.
I don’t think so. Even if the price is the same, I will choose the 1861. The new clasp is utterly ugly.
Agree with you. 1861 is only worth if its at least 1500usd cheaper. else go for 3861. There movement is better, the watch will have longer warranty, and the bracelet is comfortable.
I picked up a Speedmaster Professional from 2017 for £2000. Best deal I've ever gotten and it's my grail piece so ticked so many boxes for me.
Same story here. Just picked up one of the Forstner flat links for mine and wear it daily
Wow what a deal it must be a reduced model speedmaster no papers or box but still that is a good deal without box and papers
I got my 2017 version with the big box and screw links for £2700 earlier this year. I think I’m going to sell the box and all the stuff it comes with (hopefully for around £300-400) to subsidise the watch even further
Same, got mine as grail also 2019 $4kusd
Just picked mine up for £3200... totally worth it. Love the hesalite, the flat dial... everything about it
I don’t know about prices going up, at least not for a few years. There are so many 1861s in circulation, scarcity is not going to be an issue for quite a while. Besides, I didn’t buy mine looking to sell it.
Scarcity is not going to be an issue for quite a while > I didn’t buy mine looking to sell it > everyone is thinkning the same way......
At least here in Germany you will already not get a young 1861 below the retail price...authorized dealers are running out of stock.
I would strongly suggest the reference 3590.50 gentlemen. The 861 movement is bulletproof, the solid case back sits better on the wrist, they aren’t nearly as top-heavy as the contemporary references and the dials age beautifully because they are the last of the tritium lume markers, thereby developing a lovely creamy patina. Even the ref 145.022 references from the 70s and 80s often do not age as well as the 90s 3590.50 references.
Certainly the outgoing 1861 model represents fantastic value for money. However the new model with hacking, the caliber 3861 movement, refined bracelet and updated dial tips it for me. Appreciate this is subjective, ultimately the best advice would be try both as they wear and feel different. One final point, not that any of my watches go anywhere near water, but 50m (3bar) water resistance is absolutely fine for everyday wear. TBH, if my lifestyle included regular swimming with a watch, this wouldn’t be the timepiece I’d choose. Anyway, great vid and keep up the good work😊
"if my lifestyle included regular swimming with a watch, this wouldn’t be the timepiece I’d choose."
For good reason. These watches are prone to leaking.
Hi 👋, really liked your hot take here. What I would say (I just bought the new one) is that IMO €1000 more for the new version is not a massive price hike. You have to remember that they spend 4 years working on the movement in order to get it to fit and still shaved .7mm off the overall case height.
The movement changes too are extremely tangible and bring it into the the 21st century. Mine runs at +2 seconds per day, it hacks, it’s anti magnetic to 15000 gauss. Real improvements, that are real world noticeable.
The bracelet is far better, the clasp is a thing of beauty if a little basic in its functionality. But every single UA-camr has mentioned the price hike, and no one has ever expressed that the price hike might just be worth it.
It’s still as cheap as chips compared to Rolex’s offering.
Thanks Oleg: I agree with you. In fact I actually have to agree with you because 2 months ago I bought this exact older version for the reasons you state. Mine was pre-owned but had never been worn and came in the luggage sized case with all the cool accessories. At $4,000 US I thought it was a bargain. The person I bought it from had the new 2021 version with the co-axial for $2,000 more. I don't think you could go wrong with either choice. But I knew the older version would not be available for much longer. The new version will be around for a long long time.
Glad l purchased my Speedy 1863 back in July 2020 while I was still waiting for my AD to give me the call for a Submariner.
It’s one of my most loved and worn piece in my collection. One year later, my AD called to let me know my Submariner 124060 was ready for my collection!
When I finally got the Sub, l thought I might want to sell the Speedy or perhaps upgrade to the 3861. However after trying the new Speedy, l prefer the older bracelet.
So now content with Submariner 124060, Speedy 1863, Tudor Pelagos FXD in my collection. Now waiting for that call for the GMT Pepsi next 😅
I have the 1861 Hesalite, and I wouldn’t trade it for the new one at all. My .02.
For years AC3 has been touting The Man on the F-ing Moon watch is a great watch!
Totally agree. I have the 1861 movement version . Get the hesalite crystal!!
Hello Oleg, great video! Im sooo happy, my wife just gifted me a new Omega Speedmaster Professional Moon Watch 3861 movement. I'm totally blown away as this is one of my top grail watches. I was actually looking for the discontinued model, but she surprised me with the new one. I still have to size it, can't wait to actually strap it on my wrist. Thank you for your wonderful videos. All the best 👍
Nice video. Personally i think the 3861 is a better watch and why i purchased one after selling a 1861 i had years ago, i couldn't fall in love with the watch because of the bracelet on the 1861. I always loved the moon watch, just couldn't related to the 1861 bracelet. It's all personal so just go with what you like!
Interesting point today Oleg. You're probably right, the 1861 model now could be bought with a discount from the AD and in the future it will probably go up in value. But if I had to buy one, I think I would go for the new model: the bracelet and mainly the movement worth the increased price in my opinion.
The new movement is having issues at the moment. Hold off a year.
@@maxpower6356 what issues are being reported? I have the new 3861 Hesalite. Running great.
No discounts. Because it's discontinued, they now no longer give discounts. For the reason Oleg mentioned.
I have the old one 2017. I absolutely love it.. I was thinking about updating it for the new one but seeing videos like this makes me think is it worth the extra money. I think I might keep it and buy a couple of new bracelets for it.
50M water resistance is far more than 99.9% of people will ever need. Most importantly, every single 3861 Speedy has been actually tested to this depth in the METAS certification process. But, the previous 1861/1863 generation is definitely NOT 50M water resistant in real life, its common for these to leak even with swimming pool use.
I've owned both and can say with confidence that the new one is the better one to go for if you can afford it, well worth the price difference. Another big bonus is that the sapphire version has been improved dramatically from the old one, I used to own the hesalite version and have now switched to the sapphire crystal.
exactly. I swam in a pool with my speedmaster and even though it was rated for 50m, I was made sure my wrist was above water99% of the time. I get out after 10 min and the watch fogs up. They should advertise it as 50m water resistant only for a couple of years after a full service (mine is a '69)
300M + Moonwatch = Perfect 2 Peace Collection
100% agree! I bought an 1861 two days after the new one became available. The changes I don't like bc Omega didn't change the few shortcomings the watch had ie micro adjustment. There were two left at my AD. Old stock now gone.
I got an 1861 too to replace one I had a while ago. Luckily I was able to get a new old stock on an alligator which is the one I really wanted and hunted for.
I bought the 2020 watch in Spring in 2021. I liked the look of the bracelet much better than the jubilee bracelet, but the selling point was the box. The 2020 version had the bigger display box with more Omega stuff in it. A foolish reason for sure, but I also got 10% off the hesalite model.
Oleg I’m a Speedy fan myself and love mine. Thank you for the great content and Happy 5th Birthday to Mr Bond
Even better reason to like the 1861: the movement is closer to the original, than the current coaxial one! Instead of throwing back into the moonwatch the 321 movement, Omega made it very expensive and exclusive... they missed the chance to create a moonwatch practically identical to the original moonwatch. So, the best and closest is the discontinued 1861. Forget the coaxial... if you want coaxial go for a normal Omega. Not the iconic moonwatch...
Better finishing on the 1861 too. No sharp edges here, more solid bracelet, nicer dial, better packaging, more attractive case, and better heritage. 1861 all the way.
I bought one in 1965 in Bern for about $150. It had a leather band. It is a "pre-Moon" version. I don't know if this has any effect on value. I used it as my daily watch for 20 years. The timer got used for developing film; to help when navigating in car rallies and flying (I was a pilot). It got cleaned a few times and somewhere along the line one of the timer buttons got changes and it does not look quite right. I would like to get it get it spruced up, but don't want to hurt the value. Can the face be cleaned without damage? Should I send it to Omega?
Pros for the 1861: price, movement used by NASA for many years, I love the grey dial (compared to the new darker dial), with no step, because it doesn't detract from the white hands - much more elegant and less busy and it makes the hands pop more.. and I love that there are more mili second markings - it looks better imo. So yes. The new one has it's pluses, but nope..1861 for me.. And I think it's the best watch to wear on a strap, so the bracelet thing is not an issue anyway (in my opinion of course... some people love bracelets)
I bought a one owner from new 2005 Speedy in immaculate condition with original box, service/i.d. cards & receipts. I bought my grail watch & have no regrets. I didn’t buy it to sell it. 👍🏼😎🇦🇺
Such a nice review. I have the „old“ 861 because it has the original caliber and mechanics from the 1969 moonlanding. I love it, it has been and still is my grail. 😎 It was important to have Hesalite and not Sapphire, because when it bursts in Space, you will not swallow the splinters. This is why todays astronauts are still getting the Hesalite version.
2 years later... You were bang on about the 1861 increasing in price. It's the last if the classic Speedmasters. I got mine for a decent price recently but they can sometomes go for very close to what RRP was in 2021.
Plenty of people have used their Speedmasters in proximity to water (swimming etc). As long as you make sure your gaskets are in good condition, as one should do for all watches, there's no reason it can't be a one-watch collection.
Would it be the Speedy Pro 1861 or the Explorer 14270 for a ‘one and only’ piece to keep?
Another great video! HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Mr.Bond!!
You nailed it! I mainly wear my 1861 Moonwatch and a G-Shock. What more do I need or want?!
Great Video man! I actually just picked up an 1861 from an AD in Canada and for me, the 1861 is going to be the great start of a collection. Cheers from Canada.
When are you going over 50 meters underwater? I have lived close to the ocean and love the water all my life and I have probably never gone past 10 meters even when spear fishing.
I just got the ck 2998 in blue for a price way below what it goes for in chrono24. It's a watch I've been trying to get for 3 years now, and I've found it by chance. The watch is beautiful and all but suddenly died and I had to take it to Omega service center only to learn a great lesson. The watch is not a fake and it was not tampered with in any shape, however, the service cost is 1200$ and it takes an average of 4 to 6 months to service!!
The moral of my story is that you have to factor in at least 1000$ over what you are paying for a worn regularly 5+ years old speedmaster.
Good insightful video Oleg. Happy 5th birthday Bond
861/1861 movement has been in production since 1968!!!! That’s no slouch & very historic.
By the way in case one asks, the 1861 is the exact same movement as the 861 with the only difference being the plating finish.
I grabbed a brand new 1861 before they were gone! Im a big fan of the 3861 but Im sure it will be available for a long time. Thinking of getting a black Omega crocodile strap from my AD for it. Any thoughts? Great video my friend.
The Omega alligator strap is comfortable in my opinion. I bought a new Speedy 1861 on an alligator to replace a Speedy I had a while ago on a steel. The bracelet was nice, but I recall it made the watch too heavy and I used to always wear it on an aftermarket alligator strap. I thought again if I buy another Speedy I would get the alligator instead. And I think gator makes the watch look nicer.
I have 1861 for many years now and it has always been my favorite daily driver. 50m is enough even for swimming if you check water resistance from time to time. As much I like the new dial and the case changes I don’t like jubilee styling of the new bracelet. I does not fit the toolwatch character of the hesalite Speedy. I would love if they offered 1450 for hesalite and left this new jubilee for sapphire model. Anyway 1861 is for me a lifetime keeper. I do have 39mm Ex , but think could just live with speedy plus a cool seiko diver for heavy duty. ;)
I picked up the new 2021 model sapphire sandwich with a 10% discount in the UK.
how did you get a 10% discount? and which AD?
You can buy mine £5400, 1 month old if you like?
Happy Birthday, Bond!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MR. BOND!!!!!
I have a vintage 1978 all original with president bracelet and I live it
Great info.
Subbed!
Fun fact: the 3861 Speedie is not flight-qualified by NASA like the 1861.
Happy birthday Bond!
Great video Oleg. I agree the older one is better value but the new bracelet is more dressy. More importantly what does Bond think???
I agree with you 💯 ... I love to add it to my collection but not feasible until next year. Thank you for sharing your thoughts 🙏
To start with I must say Happy Birthday Mr Bond! Enjoy the extra snacks.
Oleg, I shared your view entirely to the point that about a month ago I contacted the AD who had both 1863 (sapphire sandwich) and the 3861 sapphire in stock to compare them. You arguably get more for the money with the 1861 but after what must have been a very long time (pun intended) I left the store with the 3861 but the decision was very close to call. The new METAS movement and those small detail changes to the case and dial appealed as well. The bracelet in in a totally different league though. Add up these parts and I could just about justify the increase in cost. If I could wind the clock back I'd make the same choice. I have to agree though that for those on the fence for a new speedy the 1861 should be considered. Will it increase in value? Only time (another pun intended) will tell.
Proud new owner of the 1861 hesalite! I love it so much. Thank you Oleg. Спасибо большое тебе Олег, и Бонду тоже 🙂
good video, agree with everything but one aspect; how do you imagine getting a discount on any watch?
I've got a very good connection to my dealer and there is 0% discount on any model from any brand since the market skyrocketet recently.
10 yrs ago 10-20% on a rolex was normal when being a returning customer, but nowdays wont even get 1% on an omega. sad.
Great video!!!
I am saving for the 2021 ‘sapphire sandwich’….I am infatuated with the new bracelet and Sapphire is a must for me…100m water resistance seals the deal. This is a one-time purchase and it will stay in my collection forever. I have 10 watches that are ‘forever’ watches. The other 30+ are not.
Thanks for the great review!
Is the sapphire 100m? I thought they were all 50m, could be wrong!
@@ajcball yes…100m rating…on of the upgrades….Much nicer bracelet… And sapphire crystal….Exhibition(sapphire)case back as well.
I have the new sapphire sandwich 3861 and can confirm that water resistance is 50m.
Just stumbled onto your Chanel are you Canadian if so cheers from Ontario, great watch really cool would love to own one some day
I just got one of these a few months ago. I got it for around 4K USD in open box condition. (sapphire sandwich) It has been a great watch. The lug-to-lug is a bit long with the bracelet, but other than that, I really like the watch.
Agree 💯 looking forward to get one. Hopefully i can get atleast 10% discount
Happy birthday Mr. Bond !!! 😁
Definitely the best value play. In my opinion the speedy is the best watch period. That said, the rose gold model is my exit watch until there is a better release from Omega. Im just waiting till I could afford it without completely destroying my bank account
The most iconic watch imho, love it. But wouldn't have one myself - I'd want more wr, automatic, hacking and sapphire - & would struggle with the service costs... That's not any fault with the watch, just me being picky - but I shall have an Omega by November (Railmaster)
Good video of one of my favourite watches, Cheers Oleg and many happy returns Bond 🎂🥂👍🏻👍🏻
I bought the 2021, I wanted a Metas movement, I wanted the new bracelet and second hacking
Best value for Monday?
I think it’s a typo best value for money
Monday watches are underrated
@@Locksley963 I know, just teasing
I have the 1863 (sapphire) version. Not too familiar with the different movements but i hope i made the right choice! I paid $4k for it (no box or papers)
Its the best one out there, if you dont care about all that fanboy talk. Its the best version by far. Its way more premium and luxurious. You made a great purchase. Excellent price! I paid around 7000 USD for mine directly from Omega.
@@maromorostar6621 Thanks! What makes it more premium and luxurious?
Omega Aqua Terra is the best value watch on the market for me
It’s a great watch but very expensive in comparison to other omegas and similar style grand seikos and it’s not easy to find discounted. I would rather get the globemaster or sm300 in terms of value.
@@manuel_winde I see what you mean, but i think this is a sleeper due to the the classic but sporty style, and the famous 8800 caliber.
@@cedarcanoe yeah it’s a great movement but is available on the seamaster which also has a great ceramic bezel and defensive dial, a helium escape valve and clasp with micro adjustments… for less money, which I find very odd.
Until a year or so ago the Aqua Terra could be picked up new on the grey market for around £2750, similar money to a speedy or seamaster but now the price has increased very much in a short space of time. It is a great watch but I sold my last AT for £600 15 years ago so I couldn’t pay 7 times that for the new variant 😩 it would remind me too much of my old one and the low price I took back then haha
You make a great point.
I'd go further and say we'll probably look back at this time and think 'I can't believe I bought a brand new Speedie for ~$6000CAD (or AUD in my case...)!!'
As you say, after the NOS 1861's are gone, they'll jump up in price.
I think they'll still sit just under the newer 3861 METAS cert. version for a while yet, but the gap will definitely close.
One more thing:
I'm not sure that the Speedie is the same 'everybody's first luxury watch' that it used to be?
$6-$7K CAD is getting up there man! Myself and the guys I'm talking with? We've all been comfortable at around that $1-$1.5K USD (or $1.5-$2.5K CAD) mark for a while and are starting to lookwards spending $2.5-$3K USD on a Longines Avigation Big-Eye, a Certina DS Chronograph Automatic re-issue or Hanhart 417-ES... etc., etc. This is the price point that the Speedie traditionally filled.
One thing you didn't mention is the new 3861 movement is hackable. Some people want the ability to sync their time and prefer this feature. BTW, I was lucky to have the 1861 model and won't go for the 3861 upgrade at this point. Perhaps maybe later when the prices are lower in the grey market. thanks
To be fair it's a moonwatch in name only. The original had a different column wheel movement known as the cal 321. Calibres 1861/3 have never been to the moon. If you want an original moon watch, known as pre moon because its the model that was being produced before we went to the moon and the one decided upon by nasa, then you're going to pay twice the price. Omega did recently do the cal 321 as a limited edition reissue. I believe the price was about £12,000 but they sold out almost immediately. Used prices are about 15k.
Mint 3861 used one is the way to go
I must admit I love both the 2020 and later versions. It is always a gamble to present a new version of an established brand though, and for future collectors the later version might have moved a bit too far from the original.
The movement is a master chronometer,also the movement still looks the same. But the look of the new speed master is brilliant,it has most of the features from the old speedies. So it’s 10 out of 10 from me
i bought mine , wear it just a couple of times , i have a problem with it , stops after 10-12 hours ! no matter how much i wind it ....
I have the older one , no saphire case back , 1861 rules!
I agree about VFM - I bought one a couple of years ago - never really bonded with it. Just sold it......
Looked at the new moon watch today, the new bracelet really looks dainty and cheap in person
happy B day to mr bond!
I like your videos but you're wrong about this. The new speedy is better in every way. Everything from the wearability, to the aesthetics, to the movement and bracelet... everything! Much of which isn't even opinion, it's fact. The problem is, they fixed too much stuff at once. That's why it makes it so hard to spend good money on the discontinued model.
Great post. So much of that stuff as you say, is fact. It's not open to debate at all. Better in every single possible way. FULL STOP. The old one is a great watch, but it's not going to see values increase.
But still doesn’t have decent micro adjustments 😩 they fixed all that stuff but left the clasp behind
This video is great.. huge help to me. Thanks. Been looking at the new 3861 but the 1861 was always the one I dreamt of... I think also its cheaper so a better prospect
Hope you get your 1861 Speedy!
The new version is so much nicer. It feels so much better on the wrist.
The amount of advertisements for speed master is unbelievable
I agree, a beautiful watch. Save some money. I don't know if it's just me but I'm not a fan of how the new clasp looks either. But that's just personal preference.
I agree with you... i prefer my 1861 speedmaster!
Nice dog, nice review and nice avatar :) Дякую
I got mine for 4200$ tax included just last week box and papers and warranty like new but I doubt you can find a great condition one for that cheap actually their prices are creeping up and no way they can be found for 3000$ like some mentioned.
I wouldn't mind buying the older model but I'd have to buy the new bracelet because the end links on the oyster style bracelet just protrude too far on my wrist. But that said for the money I'm spending at that point I should just buy the new speedy.
I have the older model and agree with bracelet end links protruding too much. Easy fix with just buying a bracelet from Uncle Seiko who does a few variations for the Speedy. I have 3 bracelets from this company and they are all good. The pick of the bunch is the 1450 president which looks a lot like the new bracelet and only costs $129.
Countless Moonwatch Refs have been discontinued. Aside from the vintage ones that are from the Apollo eras, the common modern ones from the last 30 years cost the same. There's just so, SO many of them. 3500$us all day long, endless supplies. And this last ref ran forever.
3500 for mint one is far fetched that ship has sailed
❤ happy birthday to your friend 🎉
I looked into this for a month or so, got prices evaluated the market and didn't went to spend the extra on the new Speedy if I didn't need to, but after see this video ua-cam.com/video/8JyPFaiRAcI/v-deo.html and seeing the specs of the new one in comparison to the older one, the new one just blows the old one out the water I'm sorry to say. The upgrades to the movement mean you can beat the thing up and it'll keep going. So if you can, go the new one, it's worth it.
Too many speedmaster models and editions for it to have any value on the secondary market.
Exactly
What 😂? The classic speedmaster will always have value on the secondary market,most of the people are buying the classic speedy,not the limited editions.
@@Ge0rGi. first, this message was 2 years ago in a much different market. Secondly, the Moonwatch is still barely over retail price in the secondary market when compared to the likes of its competitors. Omega oversaturated the Speedmaster.
@@triniboy05 no it didn’t,the classic speedmaster is preferred by most of the people,it’s more classic than the submariner. Look at Rolex ,many of the Rolex fans paid a ton of money over retail,now the Rolex market went down and they’ve lost a lot of money
@@Ge0rGi. what’s the premium of a Rolex Submariner over retail, compared to the premium of a Speedmaster compared to its retail, in the secondary market? You can like Omega more than Rolex all you want, but it’s clear that the secondary market value isn’t there.
The 3861 is good value, name ONE other watch on the market that is «as good» and is the same or cheaper price then the 3861 Speedmaster, that’s right, there isn’t any.
You can also add the 1861 has been used in space many times over. The 3861 hasn’t even been in the atmosphere yet. Btw….Mr Bond sounded like he was tap dancing in the beginning of the video lol
Realmente, o grande deslize do speedmaster é não ter uma estanqueidade de pelo menos 100m.
I love the NEW speedy!
Firstly these old ones will not go up, secondly the bracket was horrendous and lastly it has nowt to do with the moon, it wouldn’t even be allowed in space as it’s Crystal. What’s with the dog, odd.
I thought you had one in your collection already. Anyway, cheers and HB to Mr Bond
Nice video and the discontinued 1861 prices have gone up. At this point you are actually better off getting a new 3861 hesalite version as they go for almost the same price as the discounted 1861 and your getting a much better watch with new tech, comfort, and movement
Was. It’s up to 8000 now.
Totally agree the older speedmaster and the Oris Aquis are the ones to go for.
I could definitely be tempted ……😉
I think you're right, the value is there and potentially a return on investment.
around 25-30% price increase since this video
Who has Corgeut homage? :)
Nothing wrong with any Speedy and let’s face it there are more than a few to choose from. They will always get a nod of the head from any watch enthusiast, however much as though I do like them I would rather have something a little bit different. Kinda has the Rolex Submariner vibe, a bloody great watch but lacks a little imagination. Then again different is not for everybody! 🤷♂️
The new one much better, come on man