In the late 1940s an Australian manufacturer marketed, for a very brief while, a similar cone reproducer re-configured for conventional lateral-cut 78s and replaceable steel needles. It was designed as an add-on for existing acoustic gramophones however sales were very poor. I think I may have the only serving example.
Not long ago I saw a console version of a Pathe player like this in an antique store. I do a fair amount of antiquing and it's the only one I've ever seen.
QuakerBarrett, there is a man in Pennsylvania, an expert in reconing antique radio speakers named Buford Chidester, who is able to produce reproduction cones for Pathe machines at surprisingly modest cost. Hope this can help you get your machine up and running well again!
Thank you for this great demonstration and very interesting talk. I have had one of these Pathé machines in my modest collection for some time; now I know more about it thanks to you. Unfortunately, mine has a dent at the apex where the stylus is mounted, it seems to play okay however.
First public demonstrations of Electrical Loud Speakers were done in 1916, to carry the voice of then President Woodrow Wilson to a large audience in I believe San Francisco. They were made ( I believe) by the Company that was, or became, Magnavox. They were on the cutting edge of loud speaker development. Of course no recording was possible, as Electrical recording experiments began about 1921 with the Armistice day radio broadcast of President Warren Harding at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington Cemetery in Virginia. I do believe that recording survives, but is Not very good as I recall. This device has nothing to do with electricity at all, it is a much larger sound box of sorts which as you can see, does not require an amplifying Horn either External or Internal. Years ago I attended an auction which had the later “Lumierre” pleated diaphragm. I bid it up to $135.00 and could go no further, but in 1985 that was a large bid! The fellow, a big time collector, told me after he bought it for $140, the next and final bid, that I was not going to get it at any price, he was a Chemist at Hershey Chocolate nearby, and had MUCH deeper pockets than I! He was kind enough to give me information on the player piano from the same estate, which I was EXTREMELY LUCKY to purchase for $47.50, and my late Wife was so tickled that we spent $1000.00 the next year to have it fully restored internally. I still have it, and it still works, having been tuned in late June of this year. The cabinet has never been restored and is still presentable. Sorry for the long rambling reminisce, but one thought does lead to a related one for me! I lost touch with the other collector many years ago. He may have passed away or de-aquisistioned
Some radio listeners were tired by using headphones and found a way to connect the headphones with a gramophone to play radio this way. On the other hand, radio technicians were unsatisfied by miking a gramophone and built the first pickups by gluing a needle holder to a headphone, using this in the other direction to play records "electrically" as they said in this time. Around 1930 the technology was so perfect, that a new record on a good player with pickup and correct equalization was not far from the sound, we got with the introduction of microgroove records.
I wonder if anyone added a cover, built with an ovalish hole with a close fit to the speaker outer framing, the cover curved to follow the arc of the cone travel. If the cover was lined with sound absorbant material, some of the bass notes might show up plus this could cover some of the needle, sapphire rather...noise ...thanks for the great demo
I used to do something similar with a broken radiogram by pushing a needle into a matchbox and holding it so that it followed the grooves. Reproduction sounds very similar.
It IS an interesting machine, and to answer some of the comments expressed, there is really very little weight on the record - the diffusor diaphragm assembly is not very heavy, and the ball has much larger surface area of contact than a steel needle point, but PLEASE play the records at the right speed! Your machine was going at around 72 rpm, and the centre start disc (as it says on the jacket) should go at 90 (or thereabouts) and the paper lable one, at 80. I too love Pathe's discs, but all records need to be played at the speed at which they were intended if they are to be taken seriously.
The camera is a very old Kodak C643 with lousy video performance. A baffleless speaker has a figure of 8 characteristics, that is flattened by negative interference between back and front. Interference is wavelength dependent, disappearing at higher frequencies, and depends on reflection geometry behind the speaker cone and cone angle (its not a dipole!). Finally it is not a speaker, here we have a rigid joint between record surface "driver" and cone. Yes, some wavelength dependent interference.
Your phonograph and presentation are both beautiful! But it's not accurate to say that this machine was made "long before" the Actuelle, which was produced between 1919 and 1924. Are you quite certain your machine dates from 1920? In any case, it's a fine and rare machine; thank you for displaying it so nicely!
What is the difference between a horn and a cone? Aren't they distinctions and not differences? The cone is made of paper and is sloped at an oblique angle. Saying there is no 'reproducer' may also be misleading. Do you mean there is no acoustic diaphragm (membrane)?
I have one of these, BUT somebody replaced the cone with new paper which lacks the curved edge of the original. As a result, the cone is so rigid that it makes almost no sound at all!
Unfortunately, the advise to play labeled Pathes at 80 rpm (and unlabeled ones at 90) was unheeded, and the music is horribly slow, out of pitch and out of "tone". Nevertheless, some people really enjoy records played at abnormally slow speeds, (as a kid I enjoyed 78´s at 45 rpm, and even nowadays sometimes I play some 33´s at 16. )
The youtube player lets you toggle the playback speed, without altering the pitch. Be sure you toggled "1X" or "normal". The speed should be around 90 rpm.
In the late 1940s an Australian manufacturer marketed, for a very brief while, a similar cone reproducer re-configured for conventional lateral-cut 78s and replaceable steel needles.
It was designed as an add-on for existing acoustic gramophones however sales were very poor. I think I may have the only serving example.
They are using a speaker cone and install a needle in place of the voice coil. Pretty interesting combo.
Not long ago I saw a console version of a Pathe player like this in an antique store. I do a fair amount of antiquing and it's the only one I've ever seen.
QuakerBarrett, there is a man in Pennsylvania, an expert in reconing antique radio speakers named Buford Chidester, who is able to produce reproduction cones for Pathe machines at surprisingly modest cost. Hope this can help you get your machine up and running well again!
Thank you for this great demonstration and very interesting talk. I have had one of these Pathé machines in my modest collection for some time; now I know more about it thanks to you. Unfortunately, mine has a dent at the apex where the stylus is mounted, it seems to play okay however.
an old phono from France with just a paper cone on a sapphire needle, which outlasts the steel needles found in others. It puts out plenty of sound.
Talk about your high mass tonearms, Wow!
This is really fascinating!!
That was a revolutionary invention! the first loudspeaker! The sound obtained makes the differrence. Better response in low frequences...
NOT THE FIRST LOUDSPEAKER...RESEARCH COMPRESSED AIR SYSTEMS FROM A FEW YEARS
BEFORE....
First public demonstrations of Electrical Loud Speakers were done in 1916, to carry the voice of then President Woodrow Wilson to a large audience in I believe San Francisco. They were made ( I believe) by the Company that was, or became, Magnavox. They were on the cutting edge of loud speaker development. Of course no recording was possible, as Electrical recording experiments began about 1921 with the Armistice day radio broadcast of President Warren Harding at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington Cemetery in Virginia. I do believe that recording survives, but is Not very good as I recall.
This device has nothing to do with electricity at all, it is a much larger sound box of sorts which as you can see, does not require an amplifying Horn either External or Internal. Years ago I attended an auction which had the later “Lumierre” pleated diaphragm. I bid it up to $135.00 and could go no further, but in 1985 that was a large bid! The fellow, a big time collector, told me after he bought it for $140, the next and final bid, that I was not going to get it at any price, he was a Chemist at Hershey Chocolate nearby, and had MUCH deeper pockets than I! He was kind enough to give me information on the player piano from the same estate, which I was EXTREMELY LUCKY to purchase for $47.50, and my late Wife was so tickled that we spent $1000.00 the next year to have it fully restored internally. I still have it, and it still works, having been tuned in late June of this year. The cabinet has never been restored and is still presentable. Sorry for the long rambling reminisce, but one thought does lead to a related one for me! I lost touch with the other collector many years ago. He may have passed away or de-aquisistioned
Some radio listeners were tired by using headphones and found a way to connect the headphones with a gramophone to play radio this way.
On the other hand, radio technicians were unsatisfied by miking a gramophone and built the first pickups by gluing a needle holder to a headphone, using this in the other direction to play records "electrically" as they said in this time.
Around 1930 the technology was so perfect, that a new record on a good player with pickup and correct equalization was not far from the sound, we got with the introduction of microgroove records.
Love this record player and record
I wonder if anyone added a cover, built with an ovalish hole with a close fit to the speaker outer framing, the cover curved to follow the arc of the cone travel. If the cover was lined with sound absorbant material, some of the bass notes might show up plus this could cover some of the needle, sapphire rather...noise ...thanks for the great demo
This sounds very good.
I used to do something similar with a broken radiogram by pushing a needle into a matchbox and holding it so that it followed the grooves. Reproduction sounds very similar.
It IS an interesting machine, and to answer some of the comments expressed, there is really very little weight on the record - the diffusor diaphragm assembly is not very heavy, and the ball has much larger surface area of contact than a steel needle point, but PLEASE play the records at the right speed! Your machine was going at around 72 rpm, and the centre start disc (as it says on the jacket) should go at 90 (or thereabouts) and the paper lable one, at 80. I too love Pathe's discs, but all records need to be played at the speed at which they were intended if they are to be taken seriously.
Please re-do this video with no movement of the camera for the demonstration of the sound quality. Very interesting!
The camera is a very old Kodak C643 with lousy video performance. A baffleless speaker has a figure of 8 characteristics, that is flattened by negative interference between back and front. Interference is wavelength dependent, disappearing at higher frequencies, and depends on reflection geometry behind the speaker cone and cone angle (its not a dipole!). Finally it is not a speaker, here we have a rigid joint between record surface "driver" and cone. Yes, some wavelength dependent interference.
love the font used on the manufacturers label
pretty cool!!
I think this would play Edison Diamond Disc records very well.
Old is gold
Your phonograph and presentation are both beautiful! But it's not accurate to say that this machine was made "long before" the Actuelle, which was produced between 1919 and 1924. Are you quite certain your machine dates from 1920? In any case, it's a fine and rare machine; thank you for displaying it so nicely!
What is the difference between a horn and a cone? Aren't they distinctions and not differences? The cone is made of paper and is sloped at an oblique angle.
Saying there is no 'reproducer' may also be misleading. Do you mean there is no acoustic diaphragm (membrane)?
The cones moves itself, it IS the diaphragm.
isn't that cone too heavy for the record. How much does it weight?
I have one of these, BUT somebody replaced the cone with new paper which lacks the curved edge of the original. As a result, the cone is so rigid that it makes almost no sound at all!
muito legal!!
pretty cool!!
真的很COOL！！
Amazing! How much weight is on that record a pound????
I have a Pathé diamond but he stopped working :(
Unfortunately, the advise to play labeled Pathes at 80 rpm (and unlabeled ones at 90) was unheeded, and the music is horribly slow, out of pitch and out of "tone". Nevertheless, some people really enjoy records played at abnormally slow speeds, (as a kid I enjoyed 78´s at 45 rpm, and even nowadays sometimes I play some 33´s at 16. )
Looks like a speaker chassis
Both records are played at a wrong (much too slow) speed.
The youtube player lets you toggle the playback speed, without altering the pitch. Be sure you toggled "1X" or "normal". The speed should be around 90 rpm.
one of those eh,... James Reeves Europe's ww1 RECORTDINGS?
ezek a lemezek még A LEMEZSÍKRA MERŐLEGES mélységi MODU LÁCIÓT információt TARTALMAZTAK ! ?
Wow, a pathe record that isnt a fricken opera for once!
@Gay Benny It's painfull to listen to, makes my ears bleed almost as much as EDM does.