The Science of Conversion "Therapy" | Sci Guys Podcast
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- The UK government have promised to ban Conversion "Therapy", and yet they've still neglected to actually get around to it. This week we dig into the facts around this harmful pseudoscience.
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References & Further Reading
Conversion Therapy
www.history.co...
www.stonewall....
www.gov.uk/gov...
www.aacap.org/...
www.sciencedir...
www.ncbi.nlm.n...
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
www.ncbi.nlm.n...
Banning Conversion Therapy
www.forbes.com...
www.thepinknew...
www.ncbi.nlm.n...
www.stonewall....
Are you LGBTQ+? Have you experienced conversion "therapy"?
Yes. No.
I have experience the threat of conversion therapy.
Growing up in a religious household, in college was the first time I got to wholly choose my own friends (I had had quite a few gay friends in high school but I held their secrets for them, it was the mid to late 90s after all) and was able to make the choice to stop going to church. And I pretty quickly fell in with drag queens, and they LOOOOVED me. With their help I got to work out that I was pretty damned bi which was a concept I had not been really exposed to except terrible jokes saying bisexuals were greedy and oversexed. They did not go everywhere in drag all the time, so you know sometimes my mom would see me going out with these beautiful well groomed men and would wonder why I was not dating any of them... well.. When my mom clued in that most of my friends were not straight, she sat me down and wanted to have a serious conversation about whether or not I was questioning my sexuality. And if I was... I would be sent to a "good Christian counselling program" to put me on the straight path. This was the same year "But I'm a Cheerleader" came out, so I knew what that meant and still to this day remembered the visceral reaction I had to it. That movie let so many of my friends talk about the things they had been put through by their parents and churches. I immediately lied and decided then and there to not be honest about my sexuality with her. Its been what 24 years and she still has no idea about the girlfriends, and non-binary people I've dated. That fear still boils up in the back of my mind when ever I think about it.
There are plenty of very deeply hurting elder queers out there.
Ace Enby, but only out to a few people, although I'm certain that more than a few people wonder about me, so I haven't experienced conversion "therapy"
Never conversation therapy
Yes, and thankfully no. However, I would say that any kind of queerphobic discrimination, whether personal, professional, or political, is predicated on the same assumptions as conversion therapy. They are trying to shame or intimidate you back into the closet, which has the same effect.
That said, a former therapist did try to tell me flat out that I did not have gender dysphoria, and it was "just depression." She might have meant well, but I knew it was time to look for another provider.
i appreciate the quotes around "therapy"
I too appreciated that
Didn't know to expect Corry's "Listen up, TERFs!" rant/monologue, but I am HERE for it! That was cathartic AF!!!! It was beautiful and I want to put it in a frame and put it on my wall!!!
Valid!
(55:59 for replay) The internalized transphobia demon inside of me got burnt by Corry's verbal flammes, its ghost formed in the smoke and said "I'm okay now, goodbye" with a bright smile before disappearing🤗
PRECISELY omg
Corey seemed a little more . . . unhinged this time around. I love it.
Im the T part of LGBTQ+, and while i havent had coversion "therapy," my mother thinks hormones arent the right way to go with being trans. She wants me to continue with my therapist. Im in therapy, but not cause I'm trans.
I’m so sorry
She is basically demanding you stop being openly trans. By saying " don't do hormones just continue therapy" , she is of the opinion your therapist should just,... talk you out of your "crazy ideas"
As an older Trans woman that waited far too long to transition because I cared more about what my family " might think" than my own happiness.... all I want to say is... do not do as I did.
As soon as you can safely transition, do so,... even if your mom disapproves.
As someone who uses YT to decompress I just really appreciate how this info is presented in a way that's entertaining. Comedy is an underrated vehicle for education
Yes, people do still use “gay” as a slur. As well as “autistic” and “r*tard”. I’ve also heard “tr*nny”, “f*gg*t”, “d*ke” and “l*sb*” (and by the way I am almost all of what those words mean - autistic bisexual trans girl 🎉)
I am a "tr*nny, f*gg*t,l*sb,r*t*rd,sp*k" since I am an autistic lesbian trans girl Latina... lol... And ya,... the tendency of the uneducated to hate that which they refuse to accept, or unwilling or unable to understand is never ending.
I've been in borderline conversion therapy not fun. I had to go because I went on T without telling anyone I chose to get in trouble instead of not passing. Anyway my parents were convinced I just didnt like him or that we just had conflicting beliefs. Took months before they believed me. He was a Christian therapist and told me that being gay/ trans was like doing crack. I almost died laughing then realized he wasnt joking. Best part was he was married to a woman but I've never seen someone so gay in my life. Many more things as well but I dont remember a lot of it since it been a few years now.
That’s so awful! You probably also forgot it became a traumatic event that your brain chose to forget. Sending love 💕💖💕💕😁😁🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️😁😁💕
@@Brooklyn99432ofmd You're probably right. It's just a funny memory now looking back on and being able to say well that happened. It wasn't so severe I was seriously traumatized but if it had happened when I was a lot younger it definitely would've been. Everytime I went I would always think dont take anything seriously the guy needs more therapy than me. Plus it definitely helped having friends I could tell and laugh about it with. Sending love back ❤
As someone who goes to a Catholic school I was appalled when they taught us that we should just pray to God if we think that we are trans because God will just expand our view of gender, and you aren't "really" trans.
They really have no idea what they're trying to compete with. the euphoria a trans person feels when they start presenting can be so overpowering.
Ah yes expanding your sense of gender by telling you can't be trans. Kinda ironic
😮
Hello, other Sci Guy
@@stuff31 yes exactly the 3rd sciguy !
@@NOAHFINNCE *5th
@@NOAHFINNCEmy god, a popular UA-camr replied to a reply to their comment! I feel like I have brushed with royalty. My day is a little bit better now!
Have a good evening :)
@@SciGuys who is the 4th?
Great episode! I've been seeing neurodivergent folks talking a bout ABA (Applied behavior analysis) as essentially Conversion "Therapy." A Sci Guys look into this would be amazing. Dr Devon Price would be a dream guest.
YES PLEASE!!!!! God I hope they do an episode, and I love Dr price!
When i went to primary school (in 2009) gay was a way to insult everyone if they did anything that was not liked by the rest of the people... I was called gay for literally drawing monsters...
At my school present day the direct translation of a word that rhymes with maggot is still used as a throwaway comment, as if it’s nothing. And they really just don’t understand why it makes me upset, it’s "just a word".
Loved Corey's passionate rant
That passionate rant was hella cathartic. Thank you for that!
I am at an Australian high school and the amount of slurs that are just thrown around is disgusting. I had to explain that the f slur is actually offensive and not just something people say. The fact that Luke is surprised that gay is used offensively is a bit surprising for me because I didn’t realise people didn’t know this. Great episode though
The homophobia you see among youth is crazy. I don't think I can go 20 minutes at school/on the bus without hearing someone use gay as an insult.
nothing is more cathartic than listening to corry pop off, 3rd time coming back to this episode haha
Sadly the UK isn't the only place in the eurozone that still has Conversion Therapy. I'm in Italy and it's still legal here and I'm so, so disappointed by that
I just wanted to thank you guys on helping me get educated on myself. Realizing I was bi and trans was very scary and having a funny podcast full of fun facts to inform me on all the information about such topics really helped me understand myself and it made me able to defend myself against people who are queer phobic.❤❤
I'm big Bear 🐻 (Fat) guy. I'm describing myself as Queer 🌈 now, as it's much simpler than saying 'I was Bi, maybe now Pan, in Gay relationship of 13 years, maybe Asexual from time to time.' 😉
Queer! Thankfully never experienced “corrective” therapies. I grew up in a fairly accepting immediate family and figured it out in undergrad, so 18+.
But… I was nervous to mention it to my therapist for a while. He was an older guy. I have high anxiety + knowledge of the history of psychiatric medicine and lgbtq+ issues. Turned out fine in the end!
I'm part of the LGBTQ+ though more specifically I'm Trans and Ace (maybe aroace? still trying to figure that out) and I can happily say that I haven't had to experience conversion "therapy"
24:00 i love this. I don't find many people who share this take with me, but Judaism is the only organized religion that i respect.
Islam, by nature, calls for peace, but it's been tarnished by decades of power imbalance & abuse. (Which I have seen first hand, as an arab).
Thank you for using your platform to express the almost inherent harm of organized, monotheistic religion.
This 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻!!! Was so happy to see someone
Comment on it!
53:00 if you live in a system where you need certain tokens in order to acquire the basic you need to live, and someone says "I will give you some tokens if you do whatever I tell you for 8 hours a day 5 days a week" are you consenting to this arrangement? No, not really, again because of the power imbalance.
I am on the asexual spectrum and luckily haven't had to deal with conversion -cough torture cough cough- "therapy". Still have to deal with the occasional comment on the lack of a boyfriend. Gets more annoying the older you get.
only 20 seconds shorter and this episode would last beaufitul 1:11:11 😭
I'm trans and i can't wait for you to do an episode on trans conversion therapy. Hope you talk about gender exploratory 'therapy' as the uk government is trying to get NHS therapists to start doing it even though it is widely understood to be yet another euphemism for conversion therapy
I appreciate this video so much, when I found out that conversation therapy existed and what it was I just couldn’t understand how nobody was talking about how outrageous it is that it’s still mostly legal. It honestly terrifies me.
god i could never be heterosexual
i'm a panromantic asexual (and childfree). i grew up in an alt right conservative background/community, and was aware of my asexuality for as long as i can remember. never was an issue because "purity culture" aligned pretty well with me growing up ace - but ofc as i grew older, stopped going as much, realized how different i was, i definitely could not have had a future there. when i was younger, i used to gaslight myself thinking god would provide me an ace guy as a partner, but the likelihood of finding a partner within the church who was also ace and childfree was basically impossible as most of them wanted kids, and conflate asexuality with abstinence or purity culture (they don't generally perceive the existence of asexuality).
so basically i'm pan but gay now lol. het relationship dynamics are just nope nope nope
This was really informative, great episode !!
Stay safe sand be well everyone! 🏳⚧
Yeah, "gay" still gets used as a slur/mockery a lot, but it is said in such a joking manner (at least by the people i'm around (mostly high schoolers)) that i think often the ppl who say it don't even realise that it can be harmful or degrading to hear.
Also, different terms for mental illness or disability (whether slurs or just casual uses of different diagnoses) get thrown around a ton.
Yes I am "LGBT or Q." I'm non-binary (demigirl,) demisexual, and panromantic. More and more I'm embracing the Q because having a single word is simpler 🤣
T and Q!
59:48 this could link to birding schools for indigenous communities right? Also the trans-Atlantic slave trade obviously.
this would've been really helpful when i had to do a presentation on conversion therapy last year lol
🔥🔥FUCK YES POP OFF PASSIONATELY CORRY🔥🔥
Also in Jurassic Park the dinos are trans
Corey popping off. Love it. Rip and tear man.
Corey is an absolute legend!
I am LGBTQ idk which one tho thought I was an L maybe I’m a t and b or just a t and q or just an L IDFK
I feel like every word in the titel should be covered in air-quotes
I am multiple letters in the acronym. LOL
I wish I could add another like for experiencing (justifiably) angry Corey voice.
Yes and yes I am 66 years old FYI
I am a bisexual, demisexual non binary person, soooooooooo ... I think I am in the alphabet mafia :p
T and Q with a preference for women.
💕💖💕💖
I would like to submit 19:30-19:41 for MERCH consideration. Would buy Tshirts, hats, etc bashing pseudoscience via wonderful gorilla metaphor❤🎉🎉🎉
Homoromantic heterosexuals and vice versa do exist fyi. It's called being 'cross-oriented'. Or 'mixed orientation'.
I think the technical term ive seen is split module attraction
@@cryingtyrs 'Split module attraction' doesn't get me any hits on Google, so I don't think that exists.
I think you may have meant 'split attraction model', which is just the term for having different words for romantic orientation and s3xual orientation.
I meant to talk specifically about people who are romantically attracted to one gender, and s3xually to a different one. I didn't mean to talk about people who are for example romantically attracted to women and s3xually to nobody.
So yeah no the technical terms are the ones I used.
@@ryn2844thats what i meant! I actually didnt know that it couldnt be used outside of asexuality and aromanticism. Thanks for the info
@@cryingtyrs The split attraction model *can* be used outside of ace and aro communities. It's just that it's a whole model to understand the entirety of attraction. The split attraction model is not a specific identity.
You could also use the split attraction model to describe a regular old straight person as 'heteroromantic heterosexual'. That straight person obviously isn't 'cross-oriented'.
Using the split attraction model just means you are describing romantic and s3xual attraction separately (e.g. homos3xual homoromantic), rather than together (e.g. Iesbian).
@@ryn2844 ahh ok. I misunderstood what you were saying as you used the example of asexuality and thought you meant to say that it just applied to that group. I assumed before hand that it could apply to any sexual and romantic attraction that are different to one another, which you clarified as correct just now. As well as informing me it can be used for someone with the same sexual qnd romantic attraction which i didnt know
Anyway thanks for the info
I’m a P.
Ope. I mean pansexual 😬
im defo queer :)
It is not the organized religion it is the people that pervert it.
The people are the “organised” part of the religion
As a trans woman , I simply wish to say a huge Thank You to Corry, for stating what should be Obvious. " Conversion Therapy is torture." Period. Fullstop. The soapbox from 55:55 on... made me teary eyed.