ATR systems - Engine start
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- This video shows how the engines are started in ATR aircraft. Many other turboprop airplanes use the same engines, and the procedure is very similar. Enjoy!
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Thanks for these detailed explanations. It seems that starting the ATR is even more complicated than a larger jet aircraft.
It is not complicated, they made it that way by touch too many switches, knops, hand and bodies movements.
Thanks for help me , I’m pilot on A320/321 now , in March I’ll be starting my ground school at ATR 72-600 at Azul in Brazil, your videos are very useful for me .
Great video. I'm looking forward to my first ATR start. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Captain, I hope you are doing well. I'm currently going through ATR requalification after being grounded for 2 years and I have been binge-watching your systems and procedures content on your channel. You have no idea how incredibly helpful your videos are to someone like me coming back into flying after so long. Thank you for your commitment and I hope I get a chance to fly with you again one day. Happy landings!
I'm glad to hear you are getting airborne again!
Thank you captain. Very clear explanations and calming voice as well !
Thank you for this video, I can recall on of my flights last year when I had a jumpseat in the flightdeck of an ATR72-600 where I witnessed an engine start with a difference I much add, where during the engine start of engine number two the engine start was aborted because of ITT was going over limits and they had to abort the start and wait. After a few seconds past they restarted the engine #2 (not in hotel mode normal way) then started Engine #1 then made a 180 turn and taxied out to the runway.
PS: Greetings and Salutations from the Caribbean, where ATRs is a more common sight where I'm from.
Hi Magnar - just wanted to say how much I love your videos! We have been flying the MSFS ATR on live stream regularly and I credit a lot of my ability to your helpful instruction.
I love ATR 72-600 because the engine sound, the instrument cockpit, and shape of the plane:)
Thanks for this. It is really adding to the fun flying the ATR's in MSFS 2020! 🛩
Always waiting for new videos to come. Excellent work captain
I had been flying ATR for 8 years as a Captain in Azul Brazil . Was the best fly school for me and I recomend for all pilot. I had a hapy time Im my caree . Nowdaws I’m a Embraer Captin in the same company !
Thank you captain, very informative! I'm using these videos to make sense of the ATR in MS Flight Simulator as that as sorely lacking a manual and tutorials.
Thank you so much! I will start making tutorials soon.
Having not flown this aircraft for two years after being laid off, this really helped refresh my memory on the start procedure. Hopefully I should be back in the air within a couple months so will definitely keep reviewing using your videos. Thanks for the great content.
Glad it helped!
@@FlywithMagnar More than you know commander. Was on the 600 for 5 years and the Dash 8 300 for 6 years prior to that. As much as I missed the smoothness of the Dash, I really appreciated the technology of the ATR.
Who is here to learn the procedures for the upcoming MSFS ATR series? :D
Yes 😅😂
Thanks for your recording
Yep
Unmasked! 😅😂
meee
😅 You're probably about to become a world super star!😉 Your videos are very very helpful. Thank you so much! Love this aircraft.
Great video captain
Thank you so much for important information
Thank you Captain very informative
Thanks for reminding me for the start sequences
Thanks for the video
Outstanding ! Thank you Captain. Vielen Dank !
Thank you Cptn.
Great video. !
Great videos.
Very Good explanation✈️✈️
Thanks for sharing. 😉👍🏼
Great job,
thanks so much capi
Thank you very much to Tan. that makes teaching clips Even though I can't hear it But I will try to practice following in the MSFS 2020 game. Currently, I am practicing flying the ATR72-600 airplane in the MSFS2020 game.
thank for the instructions
Hello Sir.. i enjoyed so much ..thank you :)
great video..
Very very very good channel Captain please we need more and more videos.. wish you all the best.. happy new year 🎊🎈
Thank you so much and happy new year!
HI MAGNAR YOUR VIDEOS IS SUSCEFULL
Hello, Magnar, it wouldn't be handy to have a max recorded value marker on the ITT analog & digital displays? I wonder how is that missing since it is simply to be implemented? (PS Can you explain the power-back procedure in a future video?). Thank you! Cris
Nice man
Great videos! Thank you. Just one comment: I rather do the push-back with the CL in feather position, until the tow bar is released.
My favorite turboprop.
Great ATR 72-600 !!!
top content
Great videos Captain...Awaiting ones on ATA 26/27/28/35
Thank you. Next up is ATA 28 - Fuel system.
awesome
muito bom!
Thanks
Excellent, thanks for all this valuable content Magnar, please keep the ATR videos coming.
Speaking about engine start procedures, I have always wondered what is the point of selecting the “OFF&START ABORT” position right after excess ITT.
In line with other types I operated previously why dont you just keep cranking with ignition on until any possible excess of fuel is burnt? Is it about commonality with the other two abnormal parameters during engine start?
Thanks.
Thank you for the question. The philosophy of ATR is to keep the procedures as simple as possible. But this procedure might also come from the engine manufacturer. Anyway, when there's an abnormality during engine start, regardless of the reason, the procedure will always be the same.
Another great video. I noticed that you kept engine 2 in feather in both videos, until end of pushback and until the parking break was set. It that just to avoid too much trust when being pushed back?
With the condition lever set to AUTO, the propeller produces 1400 N forward thrust. In feather, the thrust is zero. It is recommended to have not more than one propeller in AUTO during pushback as it increases the force on the towbar and the truck. The procedure varies from company to compan and may also vary with the surface conditions.
In this video, we could not use hotel mode because the tailwind exceeded 10 kt. At 11:20, we started engine #1 and selected the condition lever to AUTO before commencing pushback. At 12:40, the propeller brake was released, we started engine #2 and waited until the pushback was completed before selecting condition lever #2 to AUTO.
Hello Magnar!very nice informative.Last month in Nepal one ATR-72/500 had crashed in Pokhara during final approach of landing n lost 72 lives.Investigating team initial found that reading of CVR n DFDR,they got the result that both propellers went to feather in last leg of landing. Is it possible to go both propellers in feathers in last leg of landing in such type of advanced aircraft?
Wow it looks so complicated and restricted by so many things. Big respect to pilots for their knowledge and skills
Is this good to operate the new Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 ATR?
Hello Magnar, really great material you share with us, where are u based flying? Myanmar? Wish you happy christmas and new year, cheers from Costa Rica.
Thank you so much! I'm based in Thailand, but without job. Merry Christmas and happy new year!
Hello Sir, I have curiosity, in normal operation (from both flights in this video) why start engine #1 first with Prop brake on? if not in extreme tail wind condition what are the benefit? why not running hotel mode and push back so you can have air condition during the push back?
That's a good question. After landing, we shut down engine #1 to save fuel. When parked, we engage the propeller brake and use hotel mode until the GPU is connected. That means the propeller brake is still on when we are ready to start again. However, at most airports, we are mandated to park in a certain direction, regardless of the wind. Therefore, tailwind is common. This is not favorable in hotel mode, especially when we are pushing back as it adds another 2 to 3 knots tailwind component. There are a dozen ways to start the engines. In order to keep the procedures simple, we have reduced this down to two options: Use hotel mode, or follow the procedure as shown in the video. The main reason for not releasing the propeller brake earlier is to avoid using the hydraulic auxiliary pump. It's very noisy.
Hi captain!
I had a question, I see that some captains don't open the condition fully to start the engine during expected hot starts.
Do you think that this procedure has any effect on the start and might actually give a cooler start?
Hi! I have never heard about that procedure before, and I doubt it has any effect. If the fuel flow is reduced during engine start, the engine will accelerate more slowly, and I don't see any benefit with that. However, the fuel shut-off valve does not control the fuel flow to the engine! Bear in mind that the illustrations in the FCOM are utterly simplified.
Take a look at this video: ua-cam.com/video/0YenlVem-9c/v-deo.html
Freeze the video at 13:24 and take a look at the upper part of the illustration. (It's from the maintenance manual.) As you can see, the fuel shut-off valve does not control the fuel to the engine, but the pressurizing valve, which in turn opens and closes the fuel supply to the engine. The drawing doesn't show the exact design of the valves. But I doubt it is possible to adjust the position of the pressurizing valve by moving the condition lever to an intermediate position.
ATR has published a procedure for engine start with high residual ITT. It's published in FCOM PRO.NOP.NOR. We should stick to that procedure.
I have flown ATRs for 21 years. Many of those years in a tropical climate. I have experienced excessive ITT once, where ITT exceeded 800 degrees with not more than 10 degrees for a couple of seconds. This happened after a very short turnaround and involved a shut-down and start in hotel mode in a tailwind.
@@FlywithMagnar thank you for the detailed information captain! Wish you well!
Let's see how many thousands of views this video is getting, starting from the release of the ATR for MSFS.
I'm a bit confused about engine high ITT starts. FCOM limitations says we can continue start with ITT above 840 not exceeding 5 secs. But memo item says if ITT tends to increase 900, we need to abort the start and shut down the engines. If ITT increased to 900, do we need to follow FCOM limitations and continue the start? or do we need to follow the memo items and abort the start and shut down?
Not exactly. A limitation is not a procedure. When ITT exceeds 840 degrees, you have only 5 seconds before the turbine is toast. If ITT continues to increase at a steady pace, then there's something fundamentally wrong with the engine. There's no reason to wait.
@@FlywithMagnar you read the graph incorrectly in the video. The starting limits are: ITT up to 800, no limit. Between 800 and 840 for up to 20 seconds. Between 840 and 950 for 5 seconds.
At 800 degrees, the “excess ITT” checklist appears on the EWD. If you abort the start at 810, then read the checklist, it says “If ITT remains below 900, start can be continued.” and “If ITT exceeds 900, start must be aborted.”
If the ITT limits are exceeded, the engine is not ruined, but maintenance must be notified.
The engine will often exceed 800 during battery starts, but rarely reaches 900. I had an experience where we were starting from battery, (the GPU was broken at that time) and the captain told me to abort before 900. We tried to start the engine multiple times and drained the batteries too much. That delayed the flight a few hours while maintenance came to charge the batteries.
Did you was pilot at Bangkok air before?
Thanks a lot captain for your informative videos. With due respect captain plz tell me about boost system and why it is used on ATR 72_500?
Thank you. I'm working on a video about the engines, and the boost system will be explained there. In short, the boost system is used then take-off power is reduced by temperature limitations in the turbines ("hot and high" conditions). It tweaks ITT, allowing to depart with more payload.
@@FlywithMagnar Greetings Capt. My comment is but In jest.....
A 'then'
for a 'when'
could well set,
confusion,
Into motion😁😁🙏
Very nice video! Not sure if you might be able to give me an answer but an ATR is set to come to Microsoft Flight Sim in late April. Is there any site that I can buy a copy of a generic FCOM for the real 72-600? Since it's about a month away, I wanted to start learning about the basic operations.
Not to my knowledge. But I will make some videos when the ATR is released on MSFS.
@@FlywithMagnar Thank you
@@FlywithMagnar tomorrow!
Good sar
teacher makes me a doubt, because when the Atr is in the Hotel mode condition, sometimes there is an acceleration in power, is there any factor that contributes to this or is it a specific procedure?
The RPM of the high pressure spool (NH) can vary slightly during hotel mode. It depends on the position of the power lever. With the gust lock engaged, the power lever can be moved from GI and halfway towards FI. This increases the airflow in the airconditioning system, improving cooling or heating of the cabin.
Captain a question. Are these videos related to 500 series as well ? I mean can we use them to revise for ATR 500 series after Type Rating
Yes, the videos cover all ATR variants.
Thank you captain
Sir what is the limitation of hotel mode while start. Is it 800 or 715 (as hotel ) while engine start ?
Limitations for engine start (hotel mode or not): 20 sec between 800 and 840 degrees; 5 sec between 840 and 950 sec. Hotel mode operation: 715 degrees.
Hello Captain, just one question, in my company we normally start engines with GPU and the other day, when pushing start button, the GPU failed and the aircraft remained on batteries (DU 2 and 4 ON only), but I have read in the FCOM that the main battery is used for engine start, so what I don't understand is:what is the purpose of the GPU? I understand the main source of energy for the starter comes from the main battery (most probably I do not have a very good understanding of the DC electrical system).
Thank you for your videos.
The main battery is used for engine start when you don't have GPU. The main battery is also used to initiate a cross-start, as the DC GEN doesn't have enough power.
@@FlywithMagnar Thanks for your answer, Can you please tell me where I can find that in FCOM, because when I have been looking for it, it doesn't make any difference between start with GPU and start with battery (Description 24.2 1.1.2. Batteries).
Besides, I think that you can not start with GPU if you have a discharged or a weak battery.....
FCOM doesn't explain what happens if the GPU fails during engine start. But the logic of the electrical system is: Without GPU, the aircraft is powered by the batteries.
If the battery is discharged, it must be sent to the maintenance shop for some love and care. A weak battery will quickly be charged when the GPU is connected.
Correction to my answer above: During a cross-start, the main battery is used during the entire start, while the opposite DC GEN is assisting from 10% NH and up.
@@FlywithMagnar thanks a lot, I agree with you with the logic of the system, really appreciated, happy landings!!
@@FlywithMagnar so, if the battery is weak, it will charge quickly with the GPU on, and if it is discharged, you need maintenance, so I understand no way to start with GPU on and battery discharged (this point is what makes me think that main battery plays a role during engine start even with GPU on) nevermind, more or less, is clear, thanks again
👍👍👍
❤❤
👍
whats the crank position to?
"Crank" allows you to run the engine starter without engaging the ignition. It is used to ventilate the engine after a failed start. I'm working on a video about that procedure.
@@FlywithMagnar Thanks! :)
Things happens fast starting in ATR.. wow.. i flew 737 and the timing is just a notch faster in ATR
In your company you start engine n 1 and then n 2??
Yes. We have external air conditioning and don't need to use hotel mode. However, we use hotel mode now and then when it's convenient. It's up to the captain to decide.
@@FlywithMagnar so in the second case, Hotel Mode, than start eng 1, and then breake release on 2?
Standard ATR procedure is start hotel mode first, release the propeller brake, and then start engine 1. But you can also start engine 2 in hotel mode, start engine 1, set CL 1 to auto and wait for hydraulic power before releasing the propeller brake. It depends on the circumstances what you prefer to do.
@@FlywithMagnar thank you
Msfs ATR gonna bring the views up 😂😂😂
Hello
Mr Magnar ..Why do you the push back with Propeller engine Rotating??? If ATR write in his manuals NEVER PUSH BACK with Engine rotating........ Best regards.....
FCOM PRO.NOP.ANOR.3: "Start up engine number 1 and release of propeller number 2 can be performed during pushback, based on local agreement. Note: Unfeathering of propellers during pushback can damage nosewheel and/or pushback servicing." What we are doing in the video is within those limitations. We start engine 1 and unfeather the propeller BEFORE we start pushback. During pushback, we release the propeller brake and start engine 2. Then we WAIT until the pushback is completed before we unfeather propeller number 2. What ATR is warning about, is to commence the unfeathering process WHILE the aircraft is pushed back. Once the propeller is stabilized, there's no problem to pushback.
Je länger ich konzentriert zuschaue, umso mehr nerven mich seine ständig gleichen Handbewegungen.
😂😂😂😂 I cannot count the times in which I forgot to return the start control rotary switch to “STOP & START ABORT” after start.
The ATR is an airplane that will kick you in the nuts from ground ops until you go to your hotel room at the end of the day, there is always some “gotcha” of either system, performance, weather, MEL, mass and balance, fuel, airspace.
And all through this you are miserable and sweating in a cockpit without opening windows, helplessly watching the lucky guys who are happy and fresh sitting in their high cockpits.
They will whizz by the clouds, they will ignore the meaning of ice condition/accretion, they will speak to each other in a normal tone of voice, thy will enjoy only blue sky.
The ATR people, on the other hand, they will be tossed around by turbulence, covered in ice, only to be told to “maintain high speed” and end up in an unstabilized approach because that’s the only way to “fit in” with the “normal airplanes”.
….And you would say: “but my ATR is a STOL aircraft, I can land anywhere”--NOT. Flaps used to be 45 but now are only 30, so pretty much we need a decent size runaway anyway 😂😂😂
Funny and sad at the same time
ꜱᴀʟᴀ,ᴋyᴀ,ʙᴏʟ,ʀᴀʜᴀ,ʜᴀ,😅😅😇😇😇😇😇😇😇😇💔
😂😂😂😂 I cannot count the times in which I forgot to return the start control rotary switch to “STOP & START ABORT” after start.
The ATR is an airplane that will kick you in the nuts from ground ops until you go to your hotel room at the end of the day, there is always some “gotcha” of either system, performance, weather, MEL, mass and balance, fuel, airspace.
And all through this you are miserable and swearing in a cockpit without windows that cannot be opened, helplessly watching the lucky guys who are nice and fresh sitting in their high cockpits.
They will whizz by the clouds, they will ignore the meaning of ice condition/accretion, they will speak to each other in a normal tone of voice, thy will fly the blue sky.
The ATR people, on the other hand, they will be tossed around by turbulence, covered in ice, only to be told to “maintain high speed” and end up in an unstabilized approach because that’s the only way to “fit in” with the “normal airplanes”.
….And you would say: “but my ATR is a STOL aircraft, I can land anywhere--NOT. Flaps used to be 45 but now are only 30, so pretty much we need a decent size runaway anyway 😂😂😂
Funny and sad at the same time
playing with his hands is annoying.
So hard to understand his english. 😢
This is a Good Series on Turbo Props. Turbo Props Fly between 18,000 feet and 25,000 Feet.
Between 10,000 Feet and 70,000 to 80,000 Feet is the Sky - Sub Space Transition. at 80,000 feet its Sub Space or Near Earth Space.
This Turbo Prop and Airbus A320's are like Mini "Sky - Sub Space Transition" Vessels. They Have Pressurisation and Heating Systems.
150,000 Feet (50 Kilometres) - You'll break free of this planets Gravity and be in Space.