Loss for both sides is a good thing. Consumers are the ones who must win. Anything that benefits corpos at the expense of consumers must not be allowed.
So being thst over half of the games on the planet use epic games, it's almost as if you are asking for games to go into a dark regression as a massive monopoly takes hold of the industry by a singular game engine with unreal gone
@@TheRedRaven_ Good job comparing apples to airplanes. You might not know this, but those are very different things, like what you are trying to compare.
Considering they have their heads so far up their own asses, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually considered themselves the Jesus Christ of gaming. Without the consequences, of course.
@@saladmancer4802 the point is that epic games is doing more to harm small developers by enticing money in exchange for limiting what they can do with their games. Apart from buying them out in order to limit platform availability
@@wartome3196 if I recall correctly, there's not much competition, real competition. Take UA-cam for example, it has competition but none can compare. So UA-cam is a psudeo monopoly which is functionally like a normal one but legal. Mind you, it's been years since I took a business class so I very much could be wrong.
apple didn't really lose anything the one thing the judge ruled in epics favor(apples rule you cant tell people in your app about alternate ways to purchase stuff directly) was already removed from the app store rules months ago. and epic has to pay apple the 30% cut from when they had the alt payment system on the app store
The loss on Epic's side is also a loss for those who enjoy Fortnire, though (regardless of how others feel about it). And do we know for sure that developers using Unreal will be able to release their games on iOS? Or even Mac? I remember that being a concern with the overarching Epic ban, I just don't remember if or how it was resolved. If Apple decides to ban Unreal, that's a loss for consumers and developers, big and small. And what's worse, Apple really is within their moral and legal right to do that considering what Epic did.
They weren't happy with making full game they made dlc to be cutout content form the full game, then they made pre-orders, then the standard, deluxe, premium editions , then the loot boxes what next their greed know no bound but then again it also capitalism fault the quest for more profit got game to where they are now ironically capitalism destroy creativity for profit and they cry when we want to regulate them after what they done
I love how Tim tries to make it sound like Fortnite will be back when HE deems it the right time. As if Epic pulled it off because Apple was unfair... Not that Apple kicked Fortnite off because Epic broke the rules. Fortnite will be back when Apple says they can put it back, not before. Tim and Epic holds NO power over that.
They willingly broke the rules to start this whole fiasco. Apple had made it clear that if epic uses apples payment processing they would let Fortnite back onto the app store. So yes epic can get back onto the app store but they have to abide by apples terms of service and they clearly don't want to even if it's costing them money.
If you actually look at the ruling you'll see that Epic is the only loser here, the judge's only finding for them was the "anti-steering," which is minor. All it means is a dev can include an external link as an alternative to in-app purchases. Not that Apple can't require in-app purchases. And everything else went to Apple and Epic owes them money.
@@MikeSW haha I wonder how many of those mindless epic fanbois are also mindless trumpsters. Not that I think there is a correlation but interesting thought nonetheless
@@KlutzyBoss no as some other comment pointed out there 30% was from being in the app store not from payments, it's just a bit harder for them to track the money if app developers offer an alternative payment method
As if anyone would buy into that. Majority of us know full well corporations are only in it for themselves and screw over consumers every chance they're given. What the hell makes them think anyone would go to bat for these soulless corporate entities.
As greedy as we want to see Epic as, Apple is literally 100x the market cap of Epic (reminder Apple is a $2 TRILLION+ company). It's less 2 giant corporations butting heads over margins and moreso a Pizza Hut Franchise owner going up against the CEO.
I guess Epic's "We will look out for the little guy" statement came true, probably not how they wanted it to though :) Thanks for the early Christmas present EPIC.
That was so hypocritical of them... as if Epic, one of the biggest tech companies in the world worth $30 billion, is the "little guy." Sure, everyone looks like a "little guy" compared to Apple, but Epic Games is it's own brand of world leader... don't forget they control the Unreal Engine and have seemingly limitless money to throw out on free games and exclusives on their Epic Storefront. Plus their Chinese sugar daddy, Tencent, helps them swing around even more dick. So fuck Epic and their crocodile tears. Shady motherfuckers just keep trying to win by more and more dubious anti-consumer means. And for the record, fuck Apple, too. In this case, I was hoping at least Epic would lose terribly, but I can be content with this ruling all the same.
Also should’ve mentioned Apple now only takes a 15% cut from developers that earn under $1 million in revenue a year, which EPIC doesn’t seem to even care about which is hilarious considering they’ve always pretended they’re fighting for the small devs
Unreal Engine End User License Agreement for Publishing: This license is free to use and incurs 5% royalties when you monetize your game or other interactive off-the-shelf product and your lifetime gross revenues from that product exceed $1,000,000 USD.
But if it wasn’t for Epic court battle, Apple wouldn’t have made changes. They recently changed allowing apps like Netflix and Spotify to use external payment methods - this judgement expands that to games and Apple cannot make it difficult for developers to do that. It also allows developers to contact their player base - another first. It’s a massive win so developers can now bypass the 30% apple tax
Tencent is a weird company. A fair amount of it's shares are actually held by individuals and companies in South Africa, so it surprises me that they're so pro-China
@@VendettaSoundtracks Tencent is a Chinese company. If you know how China operates in terms of allowing "private" business, you'd know that there's direct influence from the CCP officials within the company.
@@thekeyandthegate4093 Of course. But given that a lot of it's investors originate from outside of China (as mentioned, there's a lot of South African influence in the company for some reason), you would expect that China would be forced to ease up on the bullshit if they want Tencent to keep making money. Although to be fair, with the country's recent moves, I'm convinced that China is *trying* to bankrupt itself.
@@VendettaSoundtracks Yeah, with the video game restrictions and other recent developments policy-wise, it almost seems like the CCP feels threatened by companies like Tencent. My guess is that the CCP believes that the revenue flow from companies that they've hurt is worth less than maintaining their iron grip on information control.
"We don't like your polices, so we're gonna break the rules" "Okay, we'll punish you for breaking our rules. No exceptions." "MONOPOLY! 1984! GAMERS RISE UP!" "what the fuck"
@@robertcastanpn288 not a rule? Dude it was in their bloody contract and the payment term and commission was always in their terms of service. What are you on about.
This is pretty much the "Bleem! Court Case" of our generation, except both of these greedy corporations lose, which i'm all for. Good work guys, we've unlocked the best ending.
It's hilarious. That's why I can't tolerate Epic's big "good guy" persona. Epic would gladly be the monopoly in a heart beat if they ever got the chance.
@@gaswe9236 exclusivity is one step to monopoly. Exclusivity is not monopoly. Consoles have many exclusive games and they don't have a monopoly over the gaming industry
@@mrsqueak4837 The system could use some changes, yes. And it's only a good thing that Epic, themselves an evil fucker, bleeds for it. This is an absolute win.
they are not "literally with china". they have foreign investors from china. the holding company your thinking of also has investments in ubisort, paradox, riot and dozens of other tech and gaming firms. another thing people forget about tencent is it itself is partly owned by a foreign holding company in africa.
Oh no, two big soulless corporations lost their court battle and will now be slightly inconvenienced by running slightly more consumer practices. What a horrible tragedy.
@@MrlspPrt your comment reminded of the joker when they hold a ceremony for the death of batman in BTAS, after getting all emotional he just asks totally back to normal "who wants chinese"
Tencent owning 40% epic games. It's a win, $3m and their legal fees is a drop in the bucket to what they already made, once tencent and epic games implement new changes to all their apps for alternative direct payments they'll be rolling in even more millions. Epic games one win is the only outcome they would be hoping for. Apple losing out on this deal is honestly ridiculous, but hey more power to the people and smaller app developers.
Epic got a small W, consumers were the ones that did get a bigger W tough. I was hoping for iOS to finally allow for sideloading, but unfortunately we didn't, iOS will keep being a terrible place for gaming it seems 😔
@@peepoNuggie Did you miss the part where Apple can bar Epic and any of its related companies from the App Store? On top of that I’m seeing a lot of indication that Apple can still demand a 30% cut, even if the purchase isn’t through the App Store.
@@AlexKaneROTN Yeah not this time as evidenced here in the vid.. But ya in most any other scenario that would have been the end result so this was a surprise to me
Can people just stop buying iphones until they actually make one worth buying? Apple isnt a tech company they are a propaganda machine. Every year they announce the newest iphone tech that has been in other phones for years. And the sheep eat it up every time.
What made things more funny to me after both of them lost in this situation, epic still went ahead asked apple if they can have their dev contract for iOS back and apple gave a big nope like Lana from archer. Epic even said they'll try to see if they can get it back somehow, like a desperate ex who got denied hard at prom.
two mega corporations who nickle and dime their customers for EVERYTHING they have "battle" it out. looks like a fcking playground fight of 2 toddlers going he said, she said
I love how in trying to make more money, epic games actually lost hundreds of millions because of the entire situation. Great. I hate epic games. Apple isn't much better
Apple is losing a lot too because of not getting that cut of the fortnite money. Part of me hopes they stay banned because it will cost both companies millions. Fuck em both.
@@trindalas thing is, from how the court wording went, Apple is still allowed to charge the 30% for anyone using IOS. The only thing here is how apple can charge these outside methods from IOS.
I love this result. Epic wanted more revenue but used the "we are just helping the little guy teehee" excuse, but they were actually held to that standard and Epic doesn't get *any* of the iOS revenue now they can't get back in the store? Poetic. Thank you Tim Epic for bringing down the giants, even if you were one of them.
Funny how a company that won't let indie developers onto their store without an exclusivity deal talking about "helping the little guy." They don't give a shit about helping anything other than their bank account.
Epic fighting for the little guys when they themselves steal ideas from the little guys to make billions. Until Epic acknowledges the indie devs they stole ideas from or stops the exclusive deal bs, I'm not taking Tim The Swine seriously.
I do wonder if them so openly taking that stance so brazenly from the start contributed to the judge coming to the decision they reached. As it made it very clear that they where operating in bad faith and trying to smear their opposition.
If Epic knowingly think breaking apple's agreement is ok, then they must think is ok to do the same to any laws in the real world. Such disrespect. My pop corn is ever so tasty seeing the result of this.
At this point I just roll my eyes out of habit at everything Tim Sweeney posts. The dude straight up acts like he lives in a different reality. Modern Epic is not some noble hero, it is a literal parasite and nothing more.
I just love how they were going for the Big guy protecting the little guy trope. But then they go and take away millions of peoples creator codes because they don't have a hyperwallet account.
For those asking, Hyperwallet is a third party payout method for those part of their Creator program. Epic sends the money there for Creators to withdrawl. This is because there was a LOT of fraudulent creators before SAC 2.0, who created multiple accounts to exploit the system. Or kids that put their sister's Instagram as social media and never create any actual content. The program does support the small guys, but they want to ensure only the serious ones are part of it, not scammers or people that can't event check their email (they send many warning emails and people have 60 days to setup their Hyperwallet account which can be done in literal minutes, there is really no excuse)
@@superskills1017 Epic posted an tutorial were they explain how to use Hyperwallet, i would like to link you the video (or give the video ID), or give the video title, cite some texts from websites, but STUPID UA-cam Keeps Removing my comments... (I understand for the link, but the video title and texts!?) Anyway it's basically some payout platform.
@@JewTube001 For some game devs that self published, as the games wouldn't be cheaper for gamers, and publishers would be the ones taking the money home in most cases.
@@-JustHuman- not quite - although savings may not always be passed on to the consumer the higher savings and investment can also lead to more and better quality products. either way i see no issue with supporting the developers.
Epic: "When we get the ability to avoid the Apple cut, we'll pass the savings onto our customers." Epic Prices when Epic Wins: "We like the prices where they are."
@@gemazarusgaming1549 I predict prices won't change much, it's just that instead of it being split $3 to Apple and $7 to devs, it's just $10 going to devs. Consumer still pays the same amount.
@@everythingpony I think you misunderstand me. I don't mind paying for a license for a digital product like a game. In fact, I haven't bought a physical game pretty much since Steam released. Paying real world money for a, "license" to make my gun blue is where I see the problem.
Activision-Blizzard won the contest as soon as the stuff with the Cosby Suite and the sexual abuse/suicide of one of their employees came to light. *NEVER* let them make us forget what they did and are doing to their workers. I seriously hope Hell exists, solely so people like Bobby Kotick and his cronies can rot there.
@@TheAxeLordOfFire As i've said many times on these topics. I don't care what they do in their development studios, if they were treated like slaves, so be it, if they pump out good games like that, so be it, i'll enjoy those games. ironically enough Activision and Blizzard haven't been releasing "good" games for me, so i'm not buying them. People should stop this whole "look at me, I don't support this, praise me!" most people only do that for internet browny points. If the state interferes because they're just illegal working envirements or strait up illegal activities, sure, go after them, again, not my problem my stance is clear. Whenever i say "why are they still working there?" others say "it's not easy to leave your dream job" or "so, leave a job that pays your bills?" ... you can search for a new job while working at your current, that's an fact. the whole dream job arguement is stupid as fuck, yes, this "dream" is literally getting me abused, great dream!
@@DarkDyllon “my stance is clear” Considering you wrote a few paragraphs on the topic that shows your stance is absolutely not clear. If you want to seem like you don’t care, write like 3 sentences.
Wow, it's like the judge knew Fortnite was just using the good will they got for the potential positives from this lawsuit, so they hurt them and helped the customers, but also disliked Apple for its practice and hurt it too lmao.
According to the ruling Apple is still entitled to the 30% cut even from purchases done in alternative payment systems. The cut is not from using the payment system of the Aop Store but for BEING in the App Store. The issue for Apple now is the difficulty to track these outside transactions, but they'll surely find a way to do so.
@@eve6262_ this pretty much explains it exactly as it is. If you want decent hardware, build your own PC, not as bad as a cheese grinder for 500$ from Apple...
@@sebastiangibson9671 Apples hardware isn't that great, don't forget that Apple is also the 1 pushing to give consumers less with each products. it started with the headphone jack and their reasoning "it's old technology that should make way for new technology and it made it impossible to slim down the phone more" (because we need even thinner phones right? soon enough they'll break if give them a tap on opposite sides) then they removed the charger box that came with every phone, why? "because it's better for the enviroment!" bullshit, not instead of just getting an charger box wrapped in plastic, i receive an cartboard box (6x the size of said charger box) inside that cartboard box is another box that houses the charger box and the plastic wrapped around the charger box. so ... better for the enviroment? not really.
This was always about Epic wanting a bigger cut. They made their own platform to do just that. The framing of putting it as a "fight the power" thing reeks of propaganda. Epic is not indie. They seem to be exploiting indies far more than Steam ever did. This is simply corporate warfare.
.... good let them fight among themselfes to bleed ... if smaller less succesfull devs as well as the honest consumer (yes those can also be absolute dicks) can benefit from it all the better
Technically it's not. They literally charged LESS if you bought from epic directly, aka, they clearly get the same amount they would if you bought it with apple, it actually SAVES you moneu
@@coletrainhetrick this doesn't means Epic would keep it that way, they can eventually say "this offer is over, you must pay it at full price"... just like Microsoft/Sony selling memberships to play online.
Most indies use steam because its pretty much the only option. Epic, rather than attempt to make an appealing alternative, just threw money around attempting to hurt steam by buying up these indies. If they actually made a good storefront on par with Steam, but gave a better cut to developers, I could see a lot of people willingly go to them, but no, they decide to strongarm consumers and developers. You want the better cut of sales on the Epic Store? Sign this exclusivity contract because otherwise you're not allowed on at all. Now that's exploitation.
Where does that come from? How are they exploiting indies more than Steam? As far as I know they take a smaller cut and even give money to some game studios for their game to be on their platform. So far I have only heard good things for indies.
So in the end Epic did help the little guy, without that benefit likely applying to them. Of course that wasn’t their intention and I don’t think they deserve a medal, but the result is almost perfect
@Martin Øverby Apple, will probably just raise the fee to put an app on the appstore, ironically they may actually make it more expensive for a developer to put a free app on the appstore, since they won't get a cut of the in app purchases any longer.
@@Dgero After 10 years you get an answer to this question you know now this court rule later higher and higher and you go bloody hell some European courts because one site not happy
When this whole thing started I immediately said no matter which of the two lost it would be good for us consumers, but BOTH of them losing? That's just magical!
App store monopoly? Am I missing something here? Epic, you're willingly posting your game on THEIR platform. Of course they're going to take a cut of your profits. This is business 101 here.
It's not simply about the cut. If you use Apple's services, it's fair that you should pay them. But when they block you from using other services, they cross a line. Epic isn't a saint here, but they achieved something for other 3rd party entities.
@@crookim I mean, I hate Apple as much as the next person. This is the company that literally charged $999 for a fucking screen stand and people clapped and cheered for it. A monopoly though? Doesn't quite fit because there is equally viable and powerful alternatives to the app store, just not on Apple devices.
@@vsGoliath96 That's right. The best part is that Epic's CEO doesn't even know that definition, yet he keeps repeating the word "monopoly" all the damn time.
Thanks for actually doing your research, I've seen tons of articles with clickbait-y headlines where they declare one the winner over the other, when really both lost
Nope, this was a shite outcome. Even just being required to allow device owners to install apps from outside of the app store would have been a better outcome even if their restrictions within the app store weren't lifted at all. This was a total loss for literally everyone in the world.
@@noblebork7444 Uhm, developers do have to pay Apple. They are allowed to have alternative payment methods but as far as I could tell they still owe apple a cut as per the contract, they just don't have to utilize iOS's payment system. Hense why Epic was ordered to pay 30% of all revenue they ended up making via their direct payment method to Apple. What's changed apparently is that Apple will now only take 15% from devs who make less revenue, you only get smacked by the 30% once your revenue goes up to match, basically a simpler version of how Steam does things. Utlimately this is a great outcome. Developers for Apple has somewhat more autonomy, Epic gets assfucked and fuck them because they deserve all this and more. I see this as an absolute win.
@@Exotac Doesn't it depend WHERE a purchase is made though? The anti-steering comment combined with having links to third party sites means that Apple only get a cut if a purchase is made on the app store, why Epic had to pay the 30%from August to present, but they can't collect a tithe if someone follows an in app link to purchase in game content from a third party? Apart from Epic as Apple are under no requirement to reinstate Epics developer account
@@coletrainhetrick For the last few years Epic has been trying to tear the PC gaming marketplace to pieces with EGS exclusives, Sweeney is crying about Apple having a monopoly while he tries to buy his own monopoly. It's disgusting, it's hypocritical and we can all see it.
@@coletrainhetrick epic is by fair worse then Apple at lest Apple dosnt hide what it is a monopoly where epic wants to pretend it’s for the small guy when it’s not it’s just another mult million company
@@coletrainhetrick 3 things 1. Fortnite haters 2. Steam loyalists that hate the epic games store 3. Some actual reason to hate : epic being the big guy while acting like the small guy , also cause another company called Tencent (who are a Chinese corporation and are hated way more than apple or epic ) own 40% of epic shares meaning they have a large influence on epic decisions.
@@alfieloveridge1848 Apple is far worse. I'm sorry that Epic is mean to you, but Apple openly makes deals with nations hostile to America for their own gain. Yes it's legal, but you're going to be pissed when Apple starts blocking shit in America after China paid them.
The 1984 thing is also a reference to an old Apple commercial where they did the same thing, comparing IBM and Microsoft to Big Brother and a sexy lady breaks the "video screen" with a sledgehammer. Pretty clever parody but bleh, the characters should have default danced at the end.
"Today ruling isn't a win for developers or consumers. Epic is fighting for fair competition among in-app payment methods and app stores for a billion consumers," Lol, get f***ed Tim. If anyone actually believes Epic cares about anything but their own bottom line I have a bridge to sell them.
"We want to fight fair. Now hold on while we go around and buy up timed exclusives from developers who had already promised their game on other stores" Epic "get fucked" Games
Remember when game development was for fun and to see what amazing things people could come up with, remember when games were fun and everything was earnable in game with no micro-transactions, petridge farms remembers 🙂
@@deadpilled2942 And game development got really expensive to produce the best graphics and framerates. Thank goodness some of the old ways can live on in smaller productions and indie games.
I revisited Borderlands 3 last night and as I progressed to the main hub I am greeted with an advertisement for some DLC that you have to buy on the game store, delivered by the main characters disguised as a Quest. It is an audio dialogue that plays every time you enter the main hub. PS It is still a shitty console port
"Remember when game development was for fun " No; it was always to make money. Nintendo did all sorts of shady shit in the NES days, and there were actually far more shitty licensed games sped out to get a quick buck. Sure, there was tons of passionate stuff as well, but there's still plenty of that now, probably more since the industry's gotten bigger and being an indie dev has only gotten easier over time. "and everything was earnable in game with no micro-transactions" It's hard to argue against that though.
Epic, a company most well-known for using draconian exclusivity contracts to prevent players from playing games on any platform other than their own Epic Store, now finds the only successful game it's made in the last decade banned from someone else's platform? Good.
Oh no- _pops a party popper_ -I’m so sad- _puts on party hat_ -for the two bajillion-dollar moguls- _spins a rattler_ -all they wanted was to donate to their poor CEOs- _blows into a party horn_
It's like that two sided coin argument mentioned in Soul Reaver 2. Each side of the coin represents an outcome of a conflict. Here, one side of the coin is Epic Games winning, the other is Apple winning. But there's a 3rd side, the edge of the coin being landed on and standing, that is the outcome of both companies losing, an unexpected outcome. That 3rd outcome just happened.
The rule was that Apple has to allow alternative payment forms - not that they are not entitled to the 30% even if it goes through alternative payments.
They have even stated that this is their goal. But a lot of people think they are the good guys, and claim people are just haters if they don't like Epic. Just look at this comment section, a lot of people are fooled it seems. Claiming that epic is better than Apple, or that people hating are steam fans and so on. Also ironic Epic is claiming to fight for peoples rights, while being owned by China them self, or that they are on the Indies side. While also stealing game ideas and so on from those same Indies.
yup. lets not let anyone forget that just a few years before epic started buying exclusives. tim sweeney, CEO of epic games stated that microsoft buying exclusive rights to games for the windows store is monopolistic. they know they are trying to be a monopoly and are doing their best to hide it.
Nah, this is a bad ending. The bankers actually won (new revenue stream in payment processing), Apple mostly won, Epic lost badly, and gamers on OSX and iOS lost out even worse. All that changed for Apple is that they now have to allow a legal loophole that can potentially hide iOS revenue from them, meanwhile they strengthened their monopolistic grip on iOS and their claim on not being a monopoly.
@@KiraSlith That's one thing I never understood. If iOS is Apple's product, dont they have all the right to monetize it as they want? They dont have a monopoly on mobile industry, people can just buy a different phone brand. The App Store and iOS are theirs to do as they please.
I thought that will be their statement as well but Tim Sweeney just cried on Twitter like a con he is, completely forgetting about their "noble goal to help others". The snake has been pulled out of its hole by the head.
@@jerm70 Thex had their chance to spin it. Instead Tim showed his true colors and whinned about a major loss, when in fact the little people won. Just not his crusade. Everyone is a victor except for Apple and EPIC. The ruling is what EPIC fought for but the ruling applies to everyone BUT Epic because of their underhanded tactics. And EPIC could have said "victory for little people" but instead they cried loss amd injustice.
I feel like that's such an oversight Epic made on their part when putting this plan into action... Very surprising their lawyers didn't think of that before this whole thing went down. Maybe they did know it was a possibility and it was a calculated risk but still feels like they got a little too eager to fight.
I love how epic games is acting like they have been wronged because they lose 30% of their revenue on apple store, when it's apples app store. If they want to charge 90% they can that just how it works when you use a platform you didn't create. It's kind of similar to buying exclusivity rights to a game so you are the only place that can sell it.
That was the entire point of the lawsuit. They were attempting to argue that developers should be able to create alternative app stores, and users able to download those alternative app stores on iOS devices. Google went through a very similar case with the google play store, and the court ruled against them. That's why the amazon app store and other like it are on the google play store. I'm not pro epic, but it's honestly a little disappointing that the court ruled in Apple's favor in this regard. It's clearly anti competitive to prevent users from accessing alternative means of downloading apps on your hardware.
@@davestrider9838 Apple doesn't really compare to Android, though: the entire setup for the iPhone is that everything *must* go through Apple, which is made quite clear by them. Google pitches Android as an open system and allows for the sideloading of apps, so it's only natural for it to be held to a higher pro-competition standard.
I'll give it to epic for the sacrificial play in order to get more money which ultimately helped out app developers on apple platforms for the better. You tried, you not only failed but you let others succeed. As everyone else has said, the two big corporations losing is an absolute win.
As a small developer who can’t put their app on the App Store because apple would get 30% of my payments for nothing, because my web traffic would flock to the app, this is a huge loss for the little guys.
I love this court ruling. It's something a mother would do just to make you stop being dicks to eachother. Also. Epic still achieved their goals pretty much. The just got hit with something they probably didn't see coming.
Nah they got way butt fucked not only aren’t they getting their pay increase their staying banned and have to pay out shits hilarious. And what sucks even more that might of been good for devs people are saying apple can still get that 30% because that cuts for being on the App Store not the payment system so the shit would just be harder to track but their a big ass company they’ll get someone to do it
No, they hit their COVER goals. They didn't really want to help out the little guys, they wanted to make their own app store so they could make money off of the little guys instead
@@theblackoutexplorer2658 Epic owes them that money for the purchases that were made in-app(since the court upheld they had every right to require Epic to use their system). It has no bearing on purchases made outside the application(such as on your website the court allows you to link to).
This might end up being a total win for Apple, according to VirtualLegality the anti-steering thing only breaches competition laws in California and the judge then applied that nationwide, which will probably be fairly easy for Apple to appeal.
Thank you! Someone who watches Virtual Legality and knows what the ruling means. I do agree this is a 95% Apple win even though they lost on anti-steering.
Let them fight.
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Everyone Loses?
I see this as an Absolute Win.
GOOD ENDING
Flawless Victory, in my honest opinion!
Loss for both sides is a good thing. Consumers are the ones who must win.
Anything that benefits corpos at the expense of consumers must not be allowed.
Just like Thanos’ snap! 🤌*
So being thst over half of the games on the planet use epic games, it's almost as if you are asking for games to go into a dark regression as a massive monopoly takes hold of the industry by a singular game engine with unreal gone
“Big win for everyone hoping both companies would lose “ amen brother amen
You really believe that ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Apple will only make it harder 🙄🙄🙄
@@metatronblack How so?
@@fallenspherell8178 raise prices or get rid of anyone who don't comply with their new possible standard. It could be more but we'll see.
@@metatronblack Let’s all hope that you’re wrong…
@@fallenspherell8178 if I'm wrong , I'm wrong and really hope so and if I'm wrong rejoice.
It seems poetic that Epic’s attempt to keep all of their revenue from IOS benefited everyone else but themselves. I call that delicious irony.
“Big guy fighting for little guy.”
@@ihavepissinmybrain As they shamelessly create an Among us ripoff while the little guy Among Us dev was asking for a collab with them.
Meanwhile, Taliban is flying aircraft and wearing equipment rated at 90 billion dollars. Lol. Priorities I suppose.
@@TheRedRaven_ Good job comparing apples to airplanes. You might not know this, but those are very different things, like what you are trying to compare.
@@TheRedRaven_ how the fuck does this have any relevance to the topic at hand?
"Fortnite can no longer return to the App Store, resulting in a significant loss of revenue for Epic--"
Good. That's one less loose end.
This deserves more likes
On it lol
Fortnite deserves it
@RazorBackX Nope. They broke the rules, fuck em
Epic Games really did help the little guys, by unwittingly becoming the Sacrificial Lamb.
For people all about helping the little guys they sure are sore losers
Considering they have their heads so far up their own asses, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually considered themselves the Jesus Christ of gaming.
Without the consequences, of course.
@@saladmancer4802 the point is that epic games is doing more to harm small developers by enticing money in exchange for limiting what they can do with their games. Apart from buying them out in order to limit platform availability
While i do think is a big win for indie developers, i don't believe in epic games's whole thing of "Big guy helping small guy". always seemed Bs to me
they donate alot of money with grants everywhere also in stuff like blender etc so i kinda believe them because they do alot for indies
we're with you man
It seemed like a marketing tactic from the jump. What am I saying? That's exactly what it was.
That is because it is BS
@@KatsuoAkimoto They probably use those fox tax write offs. Its still a giant gaming megacorp
CEO's genuinely think they are being oppressed when someone makes it harder for them to get money in an unethical way
Gee, wonder what that's like...
cause numbers dropping gets them replaced. its why they are so unethical it gets them results.
@@Siegram999 yep. They are entitled to stockholders. Capitalism
What is unethical about setting a price like Apple does? If you have a store, do you not get to choose what you sell and for what price?
@@wartome3196 if I recall correctly, there's not much competition, real competition. Take UA-cam for example, it has competition but none can compare. So UA-cam is a psudeo monopoly which is functionally like a normal one but legal. Mind you, it's been years since I took a business class so I very much could be wrong.
As far as I'm concerned, both of these guys losing is a win for us.
In this type of stuff, I'll take what I can get.
Sometimes in life it's a win if you simply don't got hurt...
apple didn't really lose anything the one thing the judge ruled in epics favor(apples rule you cant tell people in your app about alternate ways to purchase stuff directly) was already removed from the app store rules months ago. and epic has to pay apple the 30% cut from when they had the alt payment system on the app store
The loss on Epic's side is also a loss for those who enjoy Fortnire, though (regardless of how others feel about it). And do we know for sure that developers using Unreal will be able to release their games on iOS? Or even Mac? I remember that being a concern with the overarching Epic ban, I just don't remember if or how it was resolved. If Apple decides to ban Unreal, that's a loss for consumers and developers, big and small. And what's worse, Apple really is within their moral and legal right to do that considering what Epic did.
Hell yes comrade, fuck them corporations
They weren't happy with making full game they made dlc to be cutout content form the full game, then they made pre-orders, then the standard, deluxe, premium editions , then the loot boxes what next their greed know no bound but then again it also capitalism fault the quest for more profit got game to where they are now ironically capitalism destroy creativity for profit and they cry when we want to regulate them after what they done
I love how Tim tries to make it sound like Fortnite will be back when HE deems it the right time. As if Epic pulled it off because Apple was unfair... Not that Apple kicked Fortnite off because Epic broke the rules.
Fortnite will be back when Apple says they can put it back, not before. Tim and Epic holds NO power over that.
They willingly broke the rules to start this whole fiasco. Apple had made it clear that if epic uses apples payment processing they would let Fortnite back onto the app store. So yes epic can get back onto the app store but they have to abide by apples terms of service and they clearly don't want to even if it's costing them money.
If you actually look at the ruling you'll see that Epic is the only loser here, the judge's only finding for them was the "anti-steering," which is minor. All it means is a dev can include an external link as an alternative to in-app purchases. Not that Apple can't require in-app purchases. And everything else went to Apple and Epic owes them money.
EPIC WON THE ELECTION IN A LANDSLIDE! It was a beautiful victory for Epic and then it was stolen by Apple!
@@MikeSW lmfaoooooo very epic gamer moment
@@MikeSW haha I wonder how many of those mindless epic fanbois are also mindless trumpsters. Not that I think there is a correlation but interesting thought nonetheless
'If you actually look at the ruling you'll see that Epic is the only loser here'
Wrong since Apple is not going be to getting as much money as before
@@KlutzyBoss no as some other comment pointed out there 30% was from being in the app store not from payments, it's just a bit harder for them to track the money if app developers offer an alternative payment method
"Stop 2020 from becoming 1984" as a tweet in 2019 from a mega-corporation is super cringe to look back on now
It was super cringe the moment they uploaded it
As if anyone would buy into that. Majority of us know full well corporations are only in it for themselves and screw over consumers every chance they're given. What the hell makes them think anyone would go to bat for these soulless corporate entities.
"Gamers, rise up against the big tech giants!"
-Big Tech Giant.
"stop 2020 from turning into 1984!"
-company owned partly by tencent
Epic: Take down this monopoly Steam has!
Also Epic: Please buy at our Epic Games Store so we can become the next monopoly.
Also Epic Epic:
Why is everyone not buying my exclusive games.
Steam:
Sunbathing while watching Epic falls to pieces
Your Memes, Hand it to me also epic epic?
Oh yeah, I forgot Epic tried to get a bunch of kids on "their side" when they first started their legal battle with Apple lol
It disgusting they're so dam greedy
Good. Kids shouldn't be taught Apple is the good guy.
@@WangFire or Epic
As greedy as we want to see Epic as, Apple is literally 100x the market cap of Epic (reminder Apple is a $2 TRILLION+ company). It's less 2 giant corporations butting heads over margins and moreso a Pizza Hut Franchise owner going up against the CEO.
@@WangFire neither of them are good guys, both abuse their position to enforce rules.
I guess Epic's "We will look out for the little guy" statement came true, probably not how they wanted it to though :) Thanks for the early Christmas present EPIC.
i am gona guess that looking out for the little guy comment, was simply pr. epic didn't give a shit until they got called out.
That was so hypocritical of them... as if Epic, one of the biggest tech companies in the world worth $30 billion, is the "little guy." Sure, everyone looks like a "little guy" compared to Apple, but Epic Games is it's own brand of world leader... don't forget they control the Unreal Engine and have seemingly limitless money to throw out on free games and exclusives on their Epic Storefront.
Plus their Chinese sugar daddy, Tencent, helps them swing around even more dick.
So fuck Epic and their crocodile tears. Shady motherfuckers just keep trying to win by more and more dubious anti-consumer means.
And for the record, fuck Apple, too. In this case, I was hoping at least Epic would lose terribly, but I can be content with this ruling all the same.
Epic, In the immortal words of the Sage DJ Khaled, "Congratulations, you played yourself."
Also should’ve mentioned Apple now only takes a 15% cut from developers that earn under $1 million in revenue a year, which EPIC doesn’t seem to even care about which is hilarious considering they’ve always pretended they’re fighting for the small devs
Unreal Engine End User License Agreement for Publishing: This license is free to use and incurs 5% royalties when you monetize your game or other interactive off-the-shelf product and your lifetime gross revenues from that product exceed $1,000,000 USD.
Yeah ask among us devs if epic cares about them lol
But if it wasn’t for Epic court battle, Apple wouldn’t have made changes. They recently changed allowing apps like Netflix and Spotify to use external payment methods - this judgement expands that to games and Apple cannot make it difficult for developers to do that. It also allows developers to contact their player base - another first. It’s a massive win so developers can now bypass the 30% apple tax
Epic takes 10% and that number goes to 8% if developer is using unreal engine
The key word there is "pretended".
40% of epic games is owned by tencent. If any country is similar to what's depicted in 1984, it's China.
Tencent is a weird company. A fair amount of it's shares are actually held by individuals and companies in South Africa, so it surprises me that they're so pro-China
@@VendettaSoundtracks
Tencent is a Chinese company. If you know how China operates in terms of allowing "private" business, you'd know that there's direct influence from the CCP officials within the company.
Ironic
@@thekeyandthegate4093 Of course. But given that a lot of it's investors originate from outside of China (as mentioned, there's a lot of South African influence in the company for some reason), you would expect that China would be forced to ease up on the bullshit if they want Tencent to keep making money.
Although to be fair, with the country's recent moves, I'm convinced that China is *trying* to bankrupt itself.
@@VendettaSoundtracks
Yeah, with the video game restrictions and other recent developments policy-wise, it almost seems like the CCP feels threatened by companies like Tencent. My guess is that the CCP believes that the revenue flow from companies that they've hurt is worth less than maintaining their iron grip on information control.
"We don't like your polices, so we're gonna break the rules"
"Okay, we'll punish you for breaking our rules. No exceptions."
"MONOPOLY! 1984! GAMERS RISE UP!"
"what the fuck"
Kekw
Actually I don't think it was a rule until apple updated there terms afterwards lol
Epic's argument, obviously, wasn't that they don't like the policy. They argued that the policy is illegal and, thus, not valid.
@@robertcastanpn288 not a rule? Dude it was in their bloody contract and the payment term and commission was always in their terms of service.
What are you on about.
@@WhiteWolf601 With absolutely no basis
"passing along the savings to consumers"
Said every business ever.
I save tons of money on fortnite by playing other games.
This is pretty much the "Bleem! Court Case" of our generation, except both of these greedy corporations lose, which i'm all for.
Good work guys, we've unlocked the best ending.
"Monopolistic entity" as they pay billions for exclusivity agreements.
Exclusivity is not monopoly tho
@@afonsoalmada6945 Epic wants to be apple. Apple has a monopoly over the shit they own, not the entire industry. Perfectly reasonable.
@@afonsoalmada6945 exclusivity is literally..... The definition of monopoly
It's hilarious. That's why I can't tolerate Epic's big "good guy" persona. Epic would gladly be the monopoly in a heart beat if they ever got the chance.
@@gaswe9236 exclusivity is one step to monopoly. Exclusivity is not monopoly. Consoles have many exclusive games and they don't have a monopoly over the gaming industry
It's hilarious that Epic specifically doesn't benefit from this.
They've been trying to be seen as the 'good guy' by changing what the industry sees as normal for a while now. This is a part of it.
a scenario where neither corporation gets what they want is a win to me!
also funny seeing you here, guess you've got good taste :P
@@mrsqueak4837 The system could use some changes, yes. And it's only a good thing that Epic, themselves an evil fucker, bleeds for it. This is an absolute win.
They're utter shite tbh
I love how Epic Games is literally with China and wants to talk about "rights"
We stand with Taiwan
There is no war in Ba Sing Se
The majority stake is still owned by a non-chinese person (American I think?) last I checked
they are not "literally with china". they have foreign investors from china. the holding company your thinking of also has investments in ubisort, paradox, riot and dozens of other tech and gaming firms. another thing people forget about tencent is it itself is partly owned by a foreign holding company in africa.
Apple has far more ties with China
So glad Epic didn't win. Their narrative was always bs.
Old thing good new thing bad
That’s freaking hilarious. Fitting that this didn’t end well for them after comparing it to 1984. Gotta be careful when you bring up Big Brother!
Oh no, two big soulless corporations lost their court battle and will now be slightly inconvenienced by running slightly more consumer practices.
What a horrible tragedy.
“Oh No!”
“Anyway.”
Who's hungry?
Yes, very sad... Anyway
@@MrlspPrt your comment reminded of the joker when they hold a ceremony for the death of batman in BTAS, after getting all emotional he just asks totally back to normal "who wants chinese"
@@sebastiantafoya3609 Joker eats Chinese bat | *ENDS BAD* | NO CLICKBAIT
The judge/court is the parent at the end of their patience with Epic and Apple being the bickering kids in a petty fight
Best metaphor ever
They might see them invincible
But if Judge Judy/LegalEagle would be like a (maybe bad) example, they don't give anyone room to mess around
Judge Trudy got quite pissed and punished both Drake and Josh.
That's actually a very good observation!
i know right? have you seen all the arguments from the actual court? it's just freaking petty
It's very amusing that this blew up in BOTH of their faces. Yay for us.
Technically it’s a bigger win for epic. Epic does one payment to apple apple loses a shit ton of money forever.
Tencent owning 40% epic games. It's a win, $3m and their legal fees is a drop in the bucket to what they already made, once tencent and epic games implement new changes to all their apps for alternative direct payments they'll be rolling in even more millions. Epic games one win is the only outcome they would be hoping for. Apple losing out on this deal is honestly ridiculous, but hey more power to the people and smaller app developers.
Nothing to do with the video, but I want a DOOMZILLA game now!
Epic got a small W, consumers were the ones that did get a bigger W tough.
I was hoping for iOS to finally allow for sideloading, but unfortunately we didn't, iOS will keep being a terrible place for gaming it seems 😔
@@peepoNuggie Did you miss the part where Apple can bar Epic and any of its related companies from the App Store? On top of that I’m seeing a lot of indication that Apple can still demand a 30% cut, even if the purchase isn’t through the App Store.
Apple: im worth more!
Epic: no i am!
Court: youre both equally as worthless!
I like how it’s labeled as freedom and standing up for the little guy when it’s really about practically avoiding taxes
To quote Joker from “Batman: Under The Red Hood”:
“You managed to find a way to win… and everybody still loses!”
God tier movie
now, if we could get that crowbar to visit a few company CEO's
Exactly what crossed my mind when I saw this
Honestly I forgot the Epic Games V Apple thing was still going on.
Ya I thought it was over or was going to have a settlement outside of court
@@lloydlandrum3040 oh no! No settlements, in this case! Not this time, my friend!
@@AlexKaneROTN Yeah not this time as evidenced here in the vid.. But ya in most any other scenario that would have been the end result so this was a surprise to me
I never even knew this happened
Lol same
"I don't care if Epic wins, I just want Apple to lose."
*both lose*
"Both is good."
It's perfection both of those companies eat shit
Can people just stop buying iphones until they actually make one worth buying? Apple isnt a tech company they are a propaganda machine. Every year they announce the newest iphone tech that has been in other phones for years. And the sheep eat it up every time.
@@zippo718 impossible , Even more people will buy it , even more will buy Mac and iPad
@@zippo718 if your going that route wouldnt scam make more sense? What propaganda is being sold?
Both....Both is good!
What made things more funny to me after both of them lost in this situation, epic still went ahead asked apple if they can have their dev contract for iOS back and apple gave a big nope like Lana from archer. Epic even said they'll try to see if they can get it back somehow, like a desperate ex who got denied hard at prom.
two mega corporations who nickle and dime their customers for EVERYTHING they have "battle" it out. looks like a fcking playground fight of 2 toddlers going he said, she said
I love how in trying to make more money, epic games actually lost hundreds of millions because of the entire situation. Great. I hate epic games. Apple isn't much better
Apple is losing a lot too because of not getting that cut of the fortnite money. Part of me hopes they stay banned because it will cost both companies millions. Fuck em both.
@@trindalas agree both never been good with customer.
@@trindalas If by banned you mean that they cease to exist, then unfortunately for you the world economy would crash, so yeah.
@@trindalas thing is, from how the court wording went, Apple is still allowed to charge the 30% for anyone using IOS. The only thing here is how apple can charge these outside methods from IOS.
@@trindalas please there is millions of apple fans, that won't give a shit because they are mindless sheep.
I love this result. Epic wanted more revenue but used the "we are just helping the little guy teehee" excuse, but they were actually held to that standard and Epic doesn't get *any* of the iOS revenue now they can't get back in the store? Poetic. Thank you Tim Epic for bringing down the giants, even if you were one of them.
Funny how a company that won't let indie developers onto their store without an exclusivity deal talking about "helping the little guy." They don't give a shit about helping anything other than their bank account.
Epic fighting for the little guys when they themselves steal ideas from the little guys to make billions. Until Epic acknowledges the indie devs they stole ideas from or stops the exclusive deal bs, I'm not taking Tim The Swine seriously.
I do wonder if them so openly taking that stance so brazenly from the start contributed to the judge coming to the decision they reached. As it made it very clear that they where operating in bad faith and trying to smear their opposition.
I’m so sick of this greed. Yes GET YOUR MONEY. but stop trying to get every fucking cent from your players at EVERY FUCKING TURN
@@enshk79 Exactly my thoughts, of course earn money but there is no need to earn any more by acting as a bad faith actor
Epic not only gonna stay banned, but THEY have to pay Apple in a lawsuit THEY started? Delicious.
Well, Epic employees has gotta thank their boss, Timmy Tencent, for that.
If Epic knowingly think breaking apple's agreement is ok, then they must think is ok to do the same to any laws in the real world. Such disrespect. My pop corn is ever so tasty seeing the result of this.
"I see this as a complete win."
At this point I just roll my eyes out of habit at everything Tim Sweeney posts. The dude straight up acts like he lives in a different reality. Modern Epic is not some noble hero, it is a literal parasite and nothing more.
Love that Kotaku's article calls it a big win for Epic before going into what they lost.
Thy don't read the articles all the way before posting them as their own.
It's Kotaku, they are pure utter garbage. How this company is still running afloat, is beyond me.
Dumb inflammatory articles and the any publicity is good publicity thing so criticasising and showing the articles as evidence
Exactly, who is still going there??
@@Xport9 Duality of Kotaku
On one hand, they have that dude that report what to Anthem.
On the other hand, they did this.
I just love how they were going for the Big guy protecting the little guy trope. But then they go and take away millions of peoples creator codes because they don't have a hyperwallet account.
What? Also what nonsense is a hyperwallet? I've never downloaded anything from Epic so I'm out of this loop
@@AConquerorsVendetta Same
Yeah what's a hyperwallet?
For those asking, Hyperwallet is a third party payout method for those part of their Creator program. Epic sends the money there for Creators to withdrawl.
This is because there was a LOT of fraudulent creators before SAC 2.0, who created multiple accounts to exploit the system. Or kids that put their sister's Instagram as social media and never create any actual content.
The program does support the small guys, but they want to ensure only the serious ones are part of it, not scammers or people that can't event check their email (they send many warning emails and people have 60 days to setup their Hyperwallet account which can be done in literal minutes, there is really no excuse)
@@superskills1017 Epic posted an tutorial were they explain how to use Hyperwallet, i would like to link you the video (or give the video ID), or give the video title, cite some texts from websites, but STUPID UA-cam Keeps Removing my comments... (I understand for the link, but the video title and texts!?)
Anyway it's basically some payout platform.
They didn't lose money by being kicked off. They lost the potential to earn money. It wasn't already theirs. It was only potential earnings.
Two companies I absolutely despise fighting each other, I see this as an absolute win
How many people are still playing Fortnite these days? The sooner they stop, the better.
It was so stupid that Epic tried to make their "cause" meaningful. Comparing it to civil rights like.. What? Does anyone actually buy that sh*t?
Good to see you here man
Who cares, Apple deserves to be taken down a few notches. I don't even care if Epic goes under
epic tim was right though. lowering the cut would be like lowering taxes; everyone would have more money to invest in themselves and their businesses.
@@JewTube001 For some game devs that self published, as the games wouldn't be cheaper for gamers, and publishers would be the ones taking the money home in most cases.
@@-JustHuman- not quite - although savings may not always be passed on to the consumer the higher savings and investment can also lead to more and better quality products. either way i see no issue with supporting the developers.
Epic: "When we get the ability to avoid the Apple cut, we'll pass the savings onto our customers."
Epic Prices when Epic Wins: "We like the prices where they are."
Can't wait to pay 30% less for digital crap that has no real world value at all. I love paying money to companies, and getting NOTHING in return.
@@gemazarusgaming1549 Youre getting a licence for digital goods, read the tos bruh
@@gemazarusgaming1549 I predict prices won't change much, it's just that instead of it being split $3 to Apple and $7 to devs, it's just $10 going to devs. Consumer still pays the same amount.
@@everythingpony I think you misunderstand me. I don't mind paying for a license for a digital product like a game. In fact, I haven't bought a physical game pretty much since Steam released. Paying real world money for a, "license" to make my gun blue is where I see the problem.
They didn't win though. They lost practically wholesale.
It's amazing to see companies like Epic, Activision/Blizzard and EA in some sort of competition to out-do each others' scumbaggery.
Activision-Blizzard won the contest as soon as the stuff with the Cosby Suite and the sexual abuse/suicide of one of their employees came to light.
*NEVER* let them make us forget what they did and are doing to their workers. I seriously hope Hell exists, solely so people like Bobby Kotick and his cronies can rot there.
@@TheAxeLordOfFire As i've said many times on these topics.
I don't care what they do in their development studios, if they were treated like slaves, so be it, if they pump out good games like that, so be it, i'll enjoy those games.
ironically enough Activision and Blizzard haven't been releasing "good" games for me, so i'm not buying them.
People should stop this whole "look at me, I don't support this, praise me!" most people only do that for internet browny points.
If the state interferes because they're just illegal working envirements or strait up illegal activities, sure, go after them, again, not my problem my stance is clear.
Whenever i say "why are they still working there?" others say "it's not easy to leave your dream job" or "so, leave a job that pays your bills?" ... you can search for a new job while working at your current, that's an fact.
the whole dream job arguement is stupid as fuck, yes, this "dream" is literally getting me abused, great dream!
@@DarkDyllon “my stance is clear”
Considering you wrote a few paragraphs on the topic that shows your stance is absolutely not clear.
If you want to seem like you don’t care, write like 3 sentences.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be. It does put a smile on my face.
Thank you thanos very cool
Wow, it's like the judge knew Fortnite was just using the good will they got for the potential positives from this lawsuit, so they hurt them and helped the customers, but also disliked Apple for its practice and hurt it too lmao.
Actually Apple is 100% winner here. Because even with alternative payments Apple can still demand a 30% from transactions.
@@Dak1624 not when they can't prove whether those transactions ever happened
@@ultimate9056 Companies will have to share that data with Apple because if not Apple can easily remove them from App Store.
According to the ruling Apple is still entitled to the 30% cut even from purchases done in alternative payment systems. The cut is not from using the payment system of the Aop Store but for BEING in the App Store. The issue for Apple now is the difficulty to track these outside transactions, but they'll surely find a way to do so.
So epic did Jack shit then and just lost
Look rather stand with apple rather than epic games as apple makes decent hardware
@@sebastiangibson9671 overpriced hardware that only succeeds because it's a luxury brand in an industry with 2 competitors.
@@eve6262_ this pretty much explains it exactly as it is. If you want decent hardware, build your own PC, not as bad as a cheese grinder for 500$ from Apple...
@@sebastiangibson9671 Apples hardware isn't that great, don't forget that Apple is also the 1 pushing to give consumers less with each products.
it started with the headphone jack and their reasoning "it's old technology that should make way for new technology and it made it impossible to slim down the phone more" (because we need even thinner phones right? soon enough they'll break if give them a tap on opposite sides)
then they removed the charger box that came with every phone, why? "because it's better for the enviroment!" bullshit, not instead of just getting an charger box wrapped in plastic, i receive an cartboard box (6x the size of said charger box) inside that cartboard box is another box that houses the charger box and the plastic wrapped around the charger box.
so ... better for the enviroment? not really.
Again, always good to see greedy corporations fight among themselves and lose
especially when they only really unintentionally make things slightly better for the little guy in the end.
This was always about Epic wanting a bigger cut. They made their own platform to do just that. The framing of putting it as a "fight the power" thing reeks of propaganda. Epic is not indie. They seem to be exploiting indies far more than Steam ever did. This is simply corporate warfare.
.... good let them fight among themselfes to bleed ... if smaller less succesfull devs as well as the honest consumer (yes those can also be absolute dicks) can benefit from it all the better
Technically it's not. They literally charged LESS if you bought from epic directly, aka, they clearly get the same amount they would if you bought it with apple, it actually SAVES you moneu
@@coletrainhetrick this doesn't means Epic would keep it that way, they can eventually say "this offer is over, you must pay it at full price"... just like Microsoft/Sony selling memberships to play online.
Most indies use steam because its pretty much the only option. Epic, rather than attempt to make an appealing alternative, just threw money around attempting to hurt steam by buying up these indies. If they actually made a good storefront on par with Steam, but gave a better cut to developers, I could see a lot of people willingly go to them, but no, they decide to strongarm consumers and developers. You want the better cut of sales on the Epic Store? Sign this exclusivity contract because otherwise you're not allowed on at all. Now that's exploitation.
Where does that come from? How are they exploiting indies more than Steam? As far as I know they take a smaller cut and even give money to some game studios for their game to be on their platform. So far I have only heard good things for indies.
If this makes hundreds of thousands of fortnite kids to go to android than it's a win on my book
This was a win for everyone except Apple and Epic and I love it.
Tim Sweeny acted like he wasn't trying to get a few extra million for himself so he can pay some college grad 3$ to wash his Ferrari.
Fortnite was a fluke thanks a battle royale fad, epic’s meteoric success has nothing to do with Timmy’s leadership he’s a joke
@@CarburetorThompson big fukin facts
Nah man, hes greedy, so he's paying $1.50
@@CarburetorThompson Never should have trashed the unreal games, would probably be better off as a company if they hadn't.
@@CarburetorThompson That’s what he gets for not doing Infinity Blade justice
Meanwhile, Reddit is having the time of their lives celebrating
WE DID IT REDDIT!
WE DID IT LMAO
Le hecking redditino
@@RCmaniac667 ye
You mean the website that is also buckling at the knee to serve china? Great man, fantastic.
So in the end Epic did help the little guy, without that benefit likely applying to them. Of course that wasn’t their intention and I don’t think they deserve a medal, but the result is almost perfect
@Martin Øverby Apple, will probably just raise the fee to put an app on the appstore, ironically they may actually make it more expensive for a developer to put a free app on the appstore, since they won't get a cut of the in app purchases any longer.
@Martin Øverby
Yeah… it’d be cool if they could somehow appeal and find a way to get Apple labeled as a monopoly tho.
@@Dgero After 10 years you get an answer to this question you know now this court rule later higher and higher and you go bloody hell some European courts because one site not happy
@@Dgero it’s not really a monopoly tho if people can buy a different phone with about the same functions if not better
epic entention are clear when they want to appeal
YOU LOVE TO SEE IT!
I can't believe we got one of the better outcomes for this
Basically we the little people won by doing absolutely nothing lol XD
Yup 👍
When this whole thing started I immediately said no matter which of the two lost it would be good for us consumers, but BOTH of them losing? That's just magical!
"Big win for everybody hoping for both sides to lose." I vibe with this quote a lot
App store monopoly? Am I missing something here? Epic, you're willingly posting your game on THEIR platform. Of course they're going to take a cut of your profits. This is business 101 here.
Just don't use one of the biggest mobile platforms to sell your game 4Head
But seriously, fuck both of them.
I have bad news for you mate, Apple is a monopoly......
It's not simply about the cut. If you use Apple's services, it's fair that you should pay them.
But when they block you from using other services, they cross a line.
Epic isn't a saint here, but they achieved something for other 3rd party entities.
@@crookim I mean, I hate Apple as much as the next person. This is the company that literally charged $999 for a fucking screen stand and people clapped and cheered for it.
A monopoly though? Doesn't quite fit because there is equally viable and powerful alternatives to the app store, just not on Apple devices.
@@vsGoliath96 That's right. The best part is that Epic's CEO doesn't even know that definition, yet he keeps repeating the word "monopoly" all the damn time.
Thanks for actually doing your research, I've seen tons of articles with clickbait-y headlines where they declare one the winner over the other, when really both lost
I like how Epic uses the hashtag "freefortnite", they are really relying on their playerbase of 11 year olds to help them XD
Lol
Best. Possible. Outcome.
Holy shit I haven’t felt this kind of elation in relation to this industry for years.
Nope, this was a shite outcome. Even just being required to allow device owners to install apps from outside of the app store would have been a better outcome even if their restrictions within the app store weren't lifted at all. This was a total loss for literally everyone in the world.
@@alicesteel ehh, developers don't have to pay through Apple and thus get 100% of purchases, I'd call that a win.
@@noblebork7444 it's a scrap thrown to starving dogs.
@@noblebork7444 Uhm, developers do have to pay Apple. They are allowed to have alternative payment methods but as far as I could tell they still owe apple a cut as per the contract, they just don't have to utilize iOS's payment system. Hense why Epic was ordered to pay 30% of all revenue they ended up making via their direct payment method to Apple. What's changed apparently is that Apple will now only take 15% from devs who make less revenue, you only get smacked by the 30% once your revenue goes up to match, basically a simpler version of how Steam does things.
Utlimately this is a great outcome. Developers for Apple has somewhat more autonomy, Epic gets assfucked and fuck them because they deserve all this and more. I see this as an absolute win.
@@Exotac Doesn't it depend WHERE a purchase is made though? The anti-steering comment combined with having links to third party sites means that Apple only get a cut if a purchase is made on the app store, why Epic had to pay the 30%from August to present, but they can't collect a tithe if someone follows an in app link to purchase in game content from a third party?
Apart from Epic as Apple are under no requirement to reinstate Epics developer account
I don't like apple, and I don't like epic. So I'd say this is about as good of an outcome as I could hope for
What reason do you not like epic? It makes sense to hate Apple but why epic?
@@coletrainhetrick For the last few years Epic has been trying to tear the PC gaming marketplace to pieces with EGS exclusives, Sweeney is crying about Apple having a monopoly while he tries to buy his own monopoly.
It's disgusting, it's hypocritical and we can all see it.
@@coletrainhetrick epic is by fair worse then Apple at lest Apple dosnt hide what it is a monopoly where epic wants to pretend it’s for the small guy when it’s not it’s just another mult million company
@@coletrainhetrick 3 things
1. Fortnite haters
2. Steam loyalists that hate the epic games store
3. Some actual reason to hate : epic being the big guy while acting like the small guy , also cause another company called Tencent (who are a Chinese corporation and are hated way more than apple or epic ) own 40% of epic shares meaning they have a large influence on epic decisions.
@@alfieloveridge1848 Apple is far worse. I'm sorry that Epic is mean to you, but Apple openly makes deals with nations hostile to America for their own gain. Yes it's legal, but you're going to be pissed when Apple starts blocking shit in America after China paid them.
The 1984 thing is also a reference to an old Apple commercial where they did the same thing, comparing IBM and Microsoft to Big Brother and a sexy lady breaks the "video screen" with a sledgehammer. Pretty clever parody but bleh, the characters should have default danced at the end.
*In Bender voice*
🎵Now that! Is! IRONY!🎵
there was also a steam ad that used that scene. i think it was for the orange box or portal.
@@JewTube001 Portal, for the Mac OS X release of Steam.
This is like a parent grounding both of their spoiled kids for getting into an argument with each other, and one stealing the other's toys.
TY for this video. Funny how an influencer can do such a better job of explaining this than actual journalism sites in the gaming industry. Great job!
So pornography built the internet and now gaming is battling to free it. Gotta love us humans.
Gamers rise up
Bottom text
Aliens: why are those hairless apes fighting because games? Last time we visited them they were united by porn and cats...
@@MrlspPrt don't worry about it, come back in Another 30 years
"Today ruling isn't a win for developers or consumers. Epic is fighting for fair competition among in-app payment methods and app stores for a billion consumers,"
Lol, get f***ed Tim. If anyone actually believes Epic cares about anything but their own bottom line I have a bridge to sell them.
Precisely! Remember Epic was spying on Steam Friends and buying out games to their Epic Store.
You better have a lot of bridges.
Epic isn’t fighting for fair , they just want to breach in iOS Ecosystem
@@Buglin_Burger7878 It's fine, I'll sell them all the same one.
"We want to fight fair. Now hold on while we go around and buy up timed exclusives from developers who had already promised their game on other stores" Epic "get fucked" Games
Remember when game development was for fun and to see what amazing things people could come up with, remember when games were fun and everything was earnable in game with no micro-transactions, petridge farms remembers 🙂
Good days, the PS2 era is where it at.
Venture capital bombed the place.
@@deadpilled2942
And game development got really expensive to produce the best graphics and framerates.
Thank goodness some of the old ways can live on in smaller productions and indie games.
I revisited Borderlands 3 last night and as I progressed to the main hub I am greeted with an advertisement for some DLC that you have to buy on the game store, delivered by the main characters disguised as a Quest.
It is an audio dialogue that plays every time you enter the main hub.
PS
It is still a shitty console port
"Remember when game development was for fun "
No; it was always to make money. Nintendo did all sorts of shady shit in the NES days, and there were actually far more shitty licensed games sped out to get a quick buck. Sure, there was tons of passionate stuff as well, but there's still plenty of that now, probably more since the industry's gotten bigger and being an indie dev has only gotten easier over time.
"and everything was earnable in game with no micro-transactions"
It's hard to argue against that though.
Epic, a company most well-known for using draconian exclusivity contracts to prevent players from playing games on any platform other than their own Epic Store, now finds the only successful game it's made in the last decade banned from someone else's platform?
Good.
Well, Epic must be stoked right now. They drove off "1984", just like they wanted!
Oh no-
_pops a party popper_
-I’m so sad-
_puts on party hat_
-for the two bajillion-dollar moguls-
_spins a rattler_
-all they wanted was to donate to their poor CEOs-
_blows into a party horn_
I see this as an absolute win
It's like that two sided coin argument mentioned in Soul Reaver 2. Each side of the coin represents an outcome of a conflict. Here, one side of the coin is Epic Games winning, the other is Apple winning. But there's a 3rd side, the edge of the coin being landed on and standing, that is the outcome of both companies losing, an unexpected outcome. That 3rd outcome just happened.
Oh my God, it's gladdens that there's still some fans left. I love that scene, I love that game and the entire saga
Honestly, I learned about this game from a cousin. Never thought I would see it being referenced here.
The rule was that Apple has to allow alternative payment forms - not that they are not entitled to the 30% even if it goes through alternative payments.
🤫 yong is lying. Keep quite 😂
All I know, is that steam sales will not be affected
Epic wasn’t trying to fight against a monopoly, they were fighting to be the monopoly.
They have even stated that this is their goal. But a lot of people think they are the good guys, and claim people are just haters if they don't like Epic. Just look at this comment section, a lot of people are fooled it seems. Claiming that epic is better than Apple, or that people hating are steam fans and so on. Also ironic Epic is claiming to fight for peoples rights, while being owned by China them self, or that they are on the Indies side. While also stealing game ideas and so on from those same Indies.
yup. lets not let anyone forget that just a few years before epic started buying exclusives. tim sweeney, CEO of epic games stated that microsoft buying exclusive rights to games for the windows store is monopolistic.
they know they are trying to be a monopoly and are doing their best to hide it.
Good Ending achieved.
How about true ending ???
@@tqtgshscf have to unlock Tencent first for that one.
Nah, this is a bad ending. The bankers actually won (new revenue stream in payment processing), Apple mostly won, Epic lost badly, and gamers on OSX and iOS lost out even worse.
All that changed for Apple is that they now have to allow a legal loophole that can potentially hide iOS revenue from them, meanwhile they strengthened their monopolistic grip on iOS and their claim on not being a monopoly.
@@KiraSlith That's one thing I never understood. If iOS is Apple's product, dont they have all the right to monetize it as they want? They dont have a monopoly on mobile industry, people can just buy a different phone brand. The App Store and iOS are theirs to do as they please.
“We did lose a fair amount but we did it for the indies we were never out to get more money from the iOS version. Praise us.” - Epic, probably
I thought that will be their statement as well but Tim Sweeney just cried on Twitter like a con he is, completely forgetting about their "noble goal to help others". The snake has been pulled out of its hole by the head.
To be fair Epic could spin it as a win because more and more mobile games will use Unreal so helping Indies helps Epic.
@@jerm70 Thex had their chance to spin it. Instead Tim showed his true colors and whinned about a major loss, when in fact the little people won. Just not his crusade. Everyone is a victor except for Apple and EPIC. The ruling is what EPIC fought for but the ruling applies to everyone BUT Epic because of their underhanded tactics. And EPIC could have said "victory for little people" but instead they cried loss amd injustice.
I still can't help but be disgusted by how much money these companies can throw around.
I feel like that's such an oversight Epic made on their part when putting this plan into action... Very surprising their lawyers didn't think of that before this whole thing went down. Maybe they did know it was a possibility and it was a calculated risk but still feels like they got a little too eager to fight.
I love how epic games is acting like they have been wronged because they lose 30% of their revenue on apple store, when it's apples app store. If they want to charge 90% they can that just how it works when you use a platform you didn't create. It's kind of similar to buying exclusivity rights to a game so you are the only place that can sell it.
Epic had a goal to be able to set up their own app store.
That was the entire point of the lawsuit. They were attempting to argue that developers should be able to create alternative app stores, and users able to download those alternative app stores on iOS devices. Google went through a very similar case with the google play store, and the court ruled against them. That's why the amazon app store and other like it are on the google play store. I'm not pro epic, but it's honestly a little disappointing that the court ruled in Apple's favor in this regard. It's clearly anti competitive to prevent users from accessing alternative means of downloading apps on your hardware.
I suspect that as Yong said, further cases might be brought against apple on this front
Your profile pic is quite ironic to the contrary of 'acting like they have been wronged'
@@davestrider9838 Apple doesn't really compare to Android, though: the entire setup for the iPhone is that everything *must* go through Apple, which is made quite clear by them. Google pitches Android as an open system and allows for the sideloading of apps, so it's only natural for it to be held to a higher pro-competition standard.
When both corporations take an L, the poor consumer smiles.
I'll give it to epic for the sacrificial play in order to get more money which ultimately helped out app developers on apple platforms for the better.
You tried, you not only failed but you let others succeed. As everyone else has said, the two big corporations losing is an absolute win.
All I can do is smile at this outcome.
There's just something so satysfying seeing two greedy companies lose in court and lose millions and millions of dollars.
* Alien vs Predator: whoever wins, we lose *
* Apple vs Epic: both lose *
Hmm apple won by the near fact fortnite will never be on iOS again 👍
*both lose, we win* FTFY
@@AConquerorsVendetta I was searching for a funny way to say it.
It's like Goliath vs Goliath with 1% of proceeds going to David.
I haven't smiled this wide in a long time, I just can't stop smiling and feeling happy hearing all this
As a small developer who can’t put their app on the App Store because apple would get 30% of my payments for nothing, because my web traffic would flock to the app, this is a huge loss for the little guys.
Oh wow, didn't even know something like this happened.
The judge gave both Apple and Epic very little wiggle room for their appeal, and also gave Apple nothing when it comes to future lawsuits.
This is the type of lawsuit that will probably be in the history books decades from now. And given the outcome, I would be perfectly okay with that.
Seldom does a video title fill me with such joy as this one did.
I love this court ruling. It's something a mother would do just to make you stop being dicks to eachother. Also. Epic still achieved their goals pretty much. The just got hit with something they probably didn't see coming.
Not even slightly.
Nah they got way butt fucked not only aren’t they getting their pay increase their staying banned and have to pay out shits hilarious. And what sucks even more that might of been good for devs people are saying apple can still get that 30% because that cuts for being on the App Store not the payment system so the shit would just be harder to track but their a big ass company they’ll get someone to do it
Epic got what they *said* they wanted but not what they actually wanted
No, they hit their COVER goals. They didn't really want to help out the little guys, they wanted to make their own app store so they could make money off of the little guys instead
@@theblackoutexplorer2658 Epic owes them that money for the purchases that were made in-app(since the court upheld they had every right to require Epic to use their system). It has no bearing on purchases made outside the application(such as on your website the court allows you to link to).
This might end up being a total win for Apple, according to VirtualLegality the anti-steering thing only breaches competition laws in California and the judge then applied that nationwide, which will probably be fairly easy for Apple to appeal.
Thank you! Someone who watches Virtual Legality and knows what the ruling means. I do agree this is a 95% Apple win even though they lost on anti-steering.
Nothing makes me happier than knowing that two big corporations don't get what they want, while costumers do.