Talking to the Saints (Intercession)
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2022
- It sounds weird but it's not. Taking an INTRODUCTORY look at what we mean by saints and intercession, why we never talk to dead people, and why we ALWAYS pray.
Error: at 6:52 a note for James 5:1 SHOULD READ James 5:16
LINKS to more information. DO NOT stop at this one tiny 8 minute video of ours:
"Lord of Spirits" on saints and intercession, stretching way back into the Old Testament. It's a long podcast but a good one: www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts...
Bible Illustrated's jolly take on 'Saints and necromancy' and the difference between them (3 minutes): • Of Saints and Necroman...
Frederica Mathews-Green breaks it down in 3 minutes: • What Do You Mean, 'Pra...
A 4 minute take by Hadzi Teodora (turn on English subtitles): • О поштовању светитеља ...
An article about 'praying to saints': www.oca.org/reflections/fr.-l...
Looking at saints with Dr James Skedros (on the very useful Protecting Veil channel): • Saints in the Orthodox...
Saint Jerome's letter "against Vigilantius". Written in the 4th century, it speaks partly of saint veneration: www.newadvent.org/fathers/301...
To learn more of Orthodoxy seek out the book 'The Orthodox Church' by Kallistos (Timothy) Ware
Top option though: Visit an Orthodox Church. Take questions to a real life Orthodox priest.
Support our channel here: ko-fi.com/patristix
Former Protestant (who was very anti Catholic), now Orthodox, I now have a great love for the saints! They are more alive than we are since they are fully united to Christ
Amen to that!
❤
Hi I trying to understand this praying to Saints. I’m struggling to see anyone in the scriptures actual living on earth and praying to those who have departed the earth? Even when Moses appeared with Jesus on the mountain the he spoke only to Jesus and Peter and John was told only to listen to Jesus. Thanks, want to learn more about the Orthodox Church as it is very interesting.
Same.
@@geelamar3542 The best thing I can recommend is to keep looking and to 'come and see'. Visit an Orthodox Church, listen to the liturgies, chat with the priest. There are a lot of preconceptions that come with Protestantism that will be seen differently in Orthodoxy regarding how Scriptures are read and tradition is understood. Also, in the Orthodox Church, things are all connected. The praying to saints isn't a remote element of Orthodoxy that can be viewed on its own, but it is naturally linked to our understanding of salvation, the Resurrection, the triumph over death, and Christ Himself. So keep looking into Orthodoxy, especially through the actual services and community, and may God help you make the connections that will help you understand what we believe! God bless!
As someone who came from a Baptist background going into Orthodoxy this and the practices surrounding the Theotokos were the most difficult to explain to my family.
I can imagine! Hard to explain: but well worth doing!
Another thing to add with the Theotokos is she's not just a saint also. In the line of Judah kings, the mother was the Queen not the wife. She always had an actual role and job in the kingdom.
An example is when Bathsheba intercedes for Adonijah* and Solomon* brings a throne for her.
The Theotokos being a queen due to Jesus being a king in line of Judah has a specific intercessory role in the world. A role that no one else has, no other saints and thus has a throne next to Christ. This is echoed in orthodox Iconostasis.
A great book to help understand the Theotokos in orthodoxy is the book "The Orthodox veneration of the Mother of God" by St. John Maximovich. Really helped me as a protestant discovering Orthodoxy.
The realization that this was the true meaning, as recorded in the Apostles Creed, of “The Communion of the Saints” was the catalyst for my deep dive into Orthodoxy which led to a new found affinity for run on sentences in the comment section of many a social media platform.
The depth of beauty of understanding and real world application of a faith I’ve claimed for decades but never truly grasped has been simultaneously exhilarating and deeply humbling.
Your videos have exponentially expanded both experiences and have given new insights to share with other Protestant friends who also know that something very real and meaningful is missing from the traditions of Faith we have been given.
Thank you.
I have never done this, praying to Saints and I think I will try it. I have nothing to lose. I hope.
Well it's a good thing. But there are ancient ways and context of doing it properly within faith. So please do visit an Orthodox Church and talk through all this with a priest there!
@@PatristixI have a question. Can we also pray to our ancestors, like family members who have gone before us?
@@viviennebaptiste This is a good one to take up with your Orthodox priest. Orthodox Bishop Kallistos Ware of blessed memory said "in private, an Orthodox Christian is free to ask for the prayers of any member of the Church, whether canonized or not. It would be perfectly normal for an Orthodox child, if orphaned, to end his evening prayers by asking for the intercessions, not only of the Mother of God and the saints, but his own mother and father. In its public worship, however, the church usually prays only to those whom it has officially proclaimed as saints."
As a Traditional Catholic, love your channel
Stephan, you're amazing and your channel is class 👏 Thanks for these amazing videos that you do to lead people to Christ.
Thank you Matrona 🤗
“Pray” is also a specific legal term. It is a formal request to a judge for specific relief or damages which the pleader deems himself entitled.
You also forget to mention that in St John's vision of the heavenly liturgy occurring in the apocalypse, the martyred saints in heaven are presenting the prayers of the saints on earth as an incense offer to God on the throne.
Where in Revelation are these verses?
Rev 8:3-5 and Rev 5:8
This is so beautiful.
"Let my prayer arise as incense, and let the lifting up of my hands be an evening sacrifice..". From the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts during Great Lent..
And Heb 11:39-40, 12:1, 12:22-23
11:39-40
"39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only TOGETHER WITH US would they be MADE PERFECT."
12:1
"Therefore, since WE ARE SURROUNDED by such a great cloud of witnesses,..."
12:22-23
"22 But YOU HAVE COME TO ... 23 ... the SPIRITS of the righteous MADE PERFECT."
Thank you for explaining this is a way I’ve never heard before, I will admit I started this video expecting to disagree with you… however I will also admit I couldn’t… I can’t say that my mind is changed and I will immediately begin praying to saints, however I can say you’ve planted a seed of curiosity about the practice.
A 2 videos week, I love it
That laugh at 00:12. Goodness gracious, I love you two, and I have not even physically been in a room with you.
Thank you for creating this video, so I can add it into my own private playlist of our Orthodox faith.
Please pray for me.
It's mutual, friend!
@@PatristixComing back to this video for my continued growth.
Thank you both again.
Thank you for continuing this great work. ☦️
Go go go! I pray thee keep making more!
😂👍🏻
When you make a Tacitus/Goth joke and I, as Catholic and an ancient historian, spill my tea laughing!😂
As someone who grew up Baptist, your videos have not only helped me in understanding Catholic and Orthodox theology, but are now understood truths that have led me to convert. Thank You!
The hard snorty laugh you elicited out of me on the "it sounded very Goth and the Romans didnt like goths" earned me some funny looks at the office lol
🖤
Im very glad I was listening to this alone for that very same reason. I absolutely snorted with laughter at that remark.
6:06 lol that cut in was great
One of my favourite things about your videos is the relationship that you two brothers have, it is incredibly heart warming.
Thank you!
Blew my mindddddddddddd right now God is The God Of Abraham Isaac And Jacob what a Great God We Have 😲 Amen 🙏🏼
Loving this channel guys! 💖🙏➕
These are all so good. Keep em coming
Great topics every week, Keep up the good work, we look forward to them.
Thank you so much for your content on the Orthodox Faith!! It’s so encouraging especially this one episode!!! Good strength!🙏☦️
Excellent teaching. Simple yet deep, short yet content rich. 👏👏👏
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for introducing this to me
Yay thank you! This helps me so much
Love your videos, my friend❤
Thanks for all your support!
Thanks for clarification
❤❤ I am glad for your channel and insights. I was raised Catholic and I believe that the Lord had me on a journey through the Protestant world, I'm now a very Conservative Lutheran but I am so glad for the insights of the Church of yesterday. In Lutheranisum we tried correct the errors of the Roman Church. And the Eastern church is not really discussed but I think we need to have dialogue. I Love the people of God. One question I have for my brothers in the Eastern and Oriental churches is Outreach, maybe this there season. In tthe American church we need all the Grace's we can get ❤❤ Love to all in the Family of God.
The “Best” Orthodox spot on UA-cam...ever! 🙏🌺☦️🌺🙏
Thank you.
F interesant va rog traduceți materialele în lb Romina. Va mulțumesc. HRISTOS A INVIAT!
Bro please just keep these vids coming
We will try!
Great video! I’ve got one question though. Some people would ask how the saints are able to ‘hear’ us when we ask them to pray for us. What would your reply be?
Thanks for watching!
My reply:
In a word - God.
The saints are in Paradise, and Paradise is the presence of God. They do not live or operate or work outside of His will.
We know that God is a part of our prayer life (Romans 8:26-27) so all of it is through Him. How He manages things I obviously do not know, but the saints, our prayers, the deepest feelings of our hearts: He knows and hears it all and can take those words where He wills.
Can you do a video on Saint Nina of Georgia? Her testimony of Mother Mary is conflicting.
Love your channel so much, thank you for your obedience!
Conflicting how?
My beloved brother hello from Ethiopia... I'm Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Christian and i don't know if you know but we're are very strict Christians following the teachings of the church fathers we fast more than 200 days in a year(we don't eat any kinds of meat or dairy products and we stay up to 3:00 in the afternoon without any food) we prostrate(bow down to God)as much as we can everyday we have ቅዳሴ(kedase) everyday we have pilgrimage to different old Monasteries and churches as much as we can,we celebrate God,our mother Virgin Mary,the saints and the angels the 30days of the month(because there are many saints we celebrate more than on saint a day) and I'm 30 years old now and started to read the Holy Bible(I'm ashamed to admit it but most Ethiopian Orthodox don't read the holy bible,we have our prayer books) and even sometimes the church fathers say not to read the holy bible they say you might get lost reading and interpreting the bible on your own...but anyways my beloved brother i started reading the holy bible everyday because of my Love for my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the Son of God and He is God revealed in the flesh and found almost all the teaching of the church isn't God's teaching at all you can't find it in the holy bible, it's all man made right? we even have the oldest even older than your KJV and the most complete holy Bible in the world with 81 books i believe your's is 66books...my beloved brother can you please explain why we should do all this things and not listen to the most important teachings in the holy bible Jesus Christ our heavenly Father told us He is our teacher our Good Shepherd our Way Truth and Life then why do we need all this man made rules?
I'm asking you because it's hard to find a church father who will answer your question without looking down on you they just say follow and obey, asking questions other than the church teachings is frowned upon...
By His holy grace may God bless you my beloved brother 🙏
በስመ አብ ወወልድ ወመንፈስ ቅዱስ አሐዱ አምላክ አሜን ✝️🙏❤️🛐
Does God listen to the prayers of saints more so than the prayers of regular people? Does He say "well, I wasn't going to do this for Frank from Alabama, but I just can't say no to Gregory of Nyssa"?
"The prayer of a righteous man avails much" James 5:16
It's not a matter of preference but intimacy. Prayer isn't a transactional thing in Christianity, but part of a relationship with God. Even here on earth we meet Christians of such deep faith that pray so much, and are so close to God.
Is that Anduril I see leaning against the wall?
Ah, a man of culture and experience! Yes, that's Anduril! Well spotted
I recently lost my grandfather Atanas, a very loving, humble and God fearing man, and when I go to the graveyard I sometimes play some of his favorite music and tell him how much I miss him and such. Can I ask him to intercede for me as well? Is it wrong for me to talk to him, even though I am fully aware that his body is not that which I am talking to, but instead knowing he is in heaven reunited with God?
Sorry for your loss, may your grandfather Atanas' memory be eternal! This is a good thing to chat about with your priest. Orthodox Bishop Kallistos Ware of blessed memory said "in private, an Orthodox Christian is free to ask for the prayers of any member of the Church, whether canonised or not. It would be perfectly normal for an Orthodox child, if orphaned, to end his evening prayers by asking for the intercessions, not only of the Mother of God and the saints, but his own mother and father. In its public worship, however, the church usually prays only to those whom it has officially proclaimed as saints."
@@Patristix Thank you for your answer. I will speak with my priest most certainly!
Many Anglicans also pray to the saints.
Are you familiar with the Dead to the World zine?
what about when one hears catholic bishops and faithful catholic and orthodox christians praying for saints to appear or to act/do certain things rather than simply to pray for a person or situation?
heresy, incorrect. Its like protestant pastors punting the bible.
Liked for the Gospel is that death is defeated!
isnt the twisting of praying for the saints to paying indulgences one of the reasons for the reformation ?
Not exactly (even though that surely a part of it). Rather, the Catholic Church came up an idea that the saints have done even more good in their earthly life than they would've needed to get to Heaven (or something like that), and thus the pope could give these "merits" to other people in order to shorten their time in Purgatory... This idea is completely un-Orthodox, and Purgatory is simply a heresy as well.
I’m struggling with this one.
That's quite ok! It's a big topic if it's new. There are more links in the description that may help, but the best thing would be to visit an Orthodox Church and chat things through with a priest afterwards. God bless!
Of course, it makes sense to ask a friend for prayer. But to do so, I actually have to ask them. If i have a friend who lives in a neighbouring town, I have to call him up or go visit him and ask him to pray for me. I can't put a picture of him in my house and then ask his picture to pray for me.
If you did that people would rightly call it foolish.
Sure, my friend is alive, but his picture isn't. If i asked his picture to pray for me it might make me feel better, but it won't get my friend to pray for me.
So, what makes the saints different? Are the saints omnipresent? Can they hear a million prayers from a million people?
Are the saints really praying for us, or is this just something we do to make ourselves feel better?
Have you ever felt it on your heart to pray for somebody? Have you ever felt God call you to pray for a person or an issue? Many Christians experience this, God calling them to pray.
If we can hear God's voice in any way here amidst the noise of a sinful world, how much more will we be able to hear it in Heaven! If Paul loved and prayed for all his friends even while suffering in an earthly prison, would he not continue when free from shackles in the presence of God. The saints are not omniscient, only God is. And the saints are there with Him. He is a part of all our prayers and helps us to pray, and if He can put on your heart a cause for prayer, He can bring a cause to those who have departed this life. ❤️
But don't feel pressured to agree or disagree on the topic. It's not one that can be adequately discussed online. If you would like to know more, please do visit an Orthodox Church and talk to a priest about intercession.
The difference between our brethren who are alive in flesh and brethren who are alive in the spirit is that there's no boundaries in Christ. In Christ, we are one as the Father and the Son are one, but due to the limitations of our bodies and our transgressions and infirmities we live like we wouldn't have connection with other people. But after this worldly house of ours (i.e. the body) is buried, we are freed from these restrictions.
Yeah but what happens when you pray to a saint that was observed to be a corpse or Saints that were recorded on their Deathbed
So the saints were just messengers ? Can they give us spiritual blessings or God alone.
I think the Orthodox would say that the saints can go to God and ask Him to give us the spiritual blessings we pray for. They can't give them to us themselves though. God could send them to appear to us in dreams
A question came to mind toward the end of this video… if an injured person is in need of say a medical procedure to be successful, why would prayer from a righteous person or saint be helpful? Doesn’t God already know what the verdict is and whether the injured person deserve the procedure to go right or wrong? Sounds like cheating your fate by having someone intercede for you.
In that case, what happens to the unlucky someone who does not know anyone to intercede for them, perhaps he is not knowledgable enough about saints or cannot contact a righteous person. What then
The Early Church (and the Orthodox today) do not see prayer as transactional, but relational. It's more than just asking for stuff and it being helpful. We're not cheating fate or being lucky/knowledgable. We're growing closer to God and to His Church by praying to God and praying for our brethren.
In the words of the 4th century Saint John Chrysostom: "There is nothing more worthwhile than to pray to God and to converse with him, for prayer unites us with God as his companions. As our bodily eyes are illuminated by seeing the light, so in contemplating God our soul is illuminated by him."
Elsewhere from the same saint, ""For He knows," says He, "what things you have need of." And if He knows, one may say, what we have need of, why must we pray? Not to instruct Him, but to prevail with Him; to be made intimate with Him, by continuance in supplication"
For more on prayer etc. chat with an Orthodox priest. God bless!
Technically, the Church prays for all people, if not in person at least as a part of a group, and the Church also asks "Ecclesia Triumphant" to pray for us all. That way every person in the world is kept in prayers of the righteous and remembered in the Kingdom of God, intimately or not.
"Romans hated goths" got me. Too funny!
Hehehe! I bet the Romans DID hate those Goths!!!! 😂👍
Major tripping point for me. There is a lot of things I like about Orthodoxy, but this isn’t one of them.
That's quite ok. It can be a hard one to get used to. Keep praying to God, and keep looking into it, there's no rush. I would say that all of Orthodoxy is interlinked. There are no disparate parts. Saint veneration is tightly connected to how we understand life and death, salvation , liturgy, iconography, our calendar. One thread pulls them all, and none exist in isolation and can be removed! And the important thing is that ALL these threads are connected to how we understand and love our lord and saviour Jesus Christ ☦
If the saints have no life there is no heaven or hell after death. Why speaking to the atheists wasting your time?
Lol. Why not just pray to Jesus? Our one mediator? He is God... not just close to him.
He is and we do. But we don't just pray for ourselves and our own needs. We pray for the world, for our friends, our family, and our Church community. We are a Church community praying together and for each other
We still worship Christ in every one of the saints. becase Christ in them is the hope of Glory. Aren't they our eleders living with God for hundreds ant thousands of years. You do not need to argue and convince the atheists with verses of the bible! There is no more deaf than him who doesn't want to hear. Why wasting your time the new Saducies does not even believe there is life afterdeath nor any resurrection. Saducies are just hypocrite atheist pretending faith !