The biggest advantage of the manpower advisor over the discipline or morale advisors imo is that it helps you out even when you aren't fighting. If you aren't fighting another army the discipline and morale advisors do nothing.
I don't get why manpower is so good. I might be doing something wrong, but I have never had an issue with manpower and I don't pay much attention to it, especially after 1500. Burn all manpower on monuments my armies don't need it! For real, why is it good? I don't get it, even my friend told me it's good. I don't see it.
So I can see a case for the advisor when you slacken, or early. But later on in the game I rarely have manpower issues, and even if I'm not always capped, the extra 5% disc to force more stack wipes will save way more manpower in wars for sure. I can see it being rated highly for the utility to swap to it when you want to slacken, but definitely not higher than morale or disc (depending on time, or national ideas) when at most you'll be switching to it for a month to slacken, and running something else 99% of the time.
I used to be the same way, it slows down the playstyle significantly, now I constantly border bancruptcy and do constant expansion wars for bigger loans to pay down the smaller ones.. Help, I can't stop, it all collapses if I stop😅
Discipline advisor also gives your rebels +5% discipline while the morale advisor doesnt give his bonus to your rebels. Production efficiency can be stronger than tax in India, Persia and China (and other regions with expensive trade goods like cacao and cloves and spice ) if you dont control trade or have an awkward trade node, and he protects you from the comet stability hit event. The stability admin advisor saves you points when you stab up but even if you stab up 3 or 4 times in a row after that he isnt doing anything so you gotta pay for another one or have him just for the points so maybe not A tier but situational like B tier.
Production efficiency is better than tax regardless of where you are after a certain timepoint in the game. When that timepoint is depends on your location in the world. I was going to comment about the stab advisor as well. I rarely stab up more than maybe once or twice in an entire game, as events will keep me at 3 for most of the game regardless. That said, sure. It has a lot of value to swap over to for a month. And sure, it can be expensive, but money is a much easier resource to get than admin points (war spoils etc). Could definitely see it being B or C for that purpose, but he's got it way high for something that's of use maybe a handful of times throughout a 400 year campaign.
@@Rommel12 The relevant time period for using him is like when you dont earn as much from trade, but have some workshops and manufactories so you earn more than from tax.
on the contrary, stab guy is actually broken strong and I don't understand how he puts inflation guy on S tier while the stab guy on A. A simple calculation would tell you the story: inflation guy gives you -0.1 inflation per year, which can only really be translated into admin mana in case you actually want to spend admin mana to reduce inflation (not always). In case you do want, 75 admin gives you -2 inflation, which means the inflation guy produces 3.75 admin mana worth of inflation reduction per year. Compare to the stab guy who, when needed, can instantly grant you around 8-12 admin PER stab level that you are stabbing up, and then you can fire him in two months for another useful guy. The difference is so big here.
@@basileusfang811 Inflation impacts cost of many things and is recalculated every month. Stability advisor indirectly has the additional cost of hiring him for the stab up and re hiring some other after. All in all if you dont consider money as a factor in the game the discussion goes to mana only, but there is the place EU4 falls apart. As there are no true abstractions and its all a bunch of mana based bullshit.
Inflation advisor reduces inflation by 0.1 per year. It would take 20 years to equal the 75 admin cost of pressing the reduce inflation button. So he's an extra 3.75 admin per year, or around 0.3 per month. So you could look at a level 5 inflation advisor as giving you 5.3 admin per month instead of 5. Seems pretty good, but not always better than unrest or stability cost as mentioned.
the reason why its better is that you would only temporarily swap in the stab cost guy for when you are stabbing up but you would want inflation reduction always. and the unrest is usually not a useful advantage as rebels will still happen unless you are stacking modifiers and they can disrupt enemies so it is sometimes a advantage.
I have had plenty of times where I was fighting endless hordes of AI. And me reinforcing to slowly did me in, so it would have definitely helped out there.
Reinforce Speed can be useful if you are playing a colonial nation and navally invading a far away country e.g. Britain invading India. You will have tiny disjointed stepping stone provinces which you colonised so you can’t recruit vast amounts of men plus it will be headache to micromanage and transport all those 1k units. You cannot recruit Manpower Troops in occupied enemy provinces so you’re best bet is to reinforce.
@@maikatideibaskapanaumrqlatupa it's not about that, it's about after you fought like 3 battles in a row and your consolidated stack is at 30k inf out of 90k and you are considering going back to your land so your troops reinforce faster before you can press on to forts.
Tariff advisor doesn't actively kill the economy of your colonies. It's simply adding to the already existing tariff your colony is set on, increasing your income but not the colony's obligation to you. Essentially making money out of thin air much like trade, production and tax guy. Still sucks.
Stability cost advisor saves you literally 10 mana points (or 20 if you increase stability twice). And you do it maybe 10 times in the entire game, which altogether gives you 100 admin points. This is completely negligible. It's D tier at best. And you put it above the trade advisor and relations advisor. Also prestige advisor can be useful only in the very early game, when you do not win many wars. Later you're always at 100 prestige. And if you used your prestige on disinheriting, it's much better two win a war or two than to wait 50 years for your prestige to return to max, while you can have many better advisors in the meantime. Under almost any circumstances it's better to have the production or tax advisor than the prestige guy. Your videos are always high quality but here I felt you did not think it through.
I would only switch to the stab cost advisor if, say, you did one of those events that cost you 2 to 5 stab hits and you want to bounce back quick. But other than that, useless.
Yeah absolutey agree with this. While trade is the best advisor for increasing your income, i think that money is the weakest aspect for advisors It's insane to think that the improve relation advisor was actually heavily nerfed and is still (imo) the best diplo advisor
Both are good. More income is always useful. Losing AE faster is also useful. I'd say however that after stacking a few improve relations bonuses, from full diplo and 100 prestige, the effect felt is proportionally smaller. After a certain point in the game you also don't really care about coalitions, especially if you can keep everyone in check with truce timing. Budget Monk's argument also stands (he gave the example of a horde in asia) but if you're playing a nation that isn't "known" by other nations, or you yourself don't "know" the other nations, they don't get AE towards you or cannot join coalitions respectively. This is another reason why asian hordes are so stupidly strong, because few nations start with maps of Oirat for instance. It's noteworthy that both level 3 discounted trader advisors and discounted level 3 improve relations advisors can be obtained from estate missions quite easily, but trader is much easier and reliable to get: The trader - burghers require you increase your trade power up a notch(unless it's already >50%) in a trade node you've got a merchant assigned in or is your home node, and can be easily fished for by removing merchants temporarily in non-coastal nodes and stopping your trade fleet from protecting trade, then if you get it you can send your fleet to protect trade there, instant complete it, and then repair your trade situation again. The diplomat - nobles require you improve relations with a nation that is a rival of one of your rivals, provided that nation isn't already lower than -50 or higher than 50 relations.This one is only easy to do early game, since later you won't have many rivals if at all, or everyone will hate your guts beyond -50. Having more than 50% manpower in your pool might also not be feasible as to avoid getting the "recover manpower" agenda for discounted military advisor instead.
They are pretty situational imo and once I have piles of money I switch a lot. I like the national unrest guy and inflation reduction guy, the discipline one or force limit one can also be handy
Force limit guy can be game changer early when you are fighting many wars and lack those 3-4 units to fully flank enemy stacks with your calvarly saving you both manpower and cash from reinforcements after battle. Byzantium for example can go full 20 front row with 14 instead of 12 troops + 2 x 3 infantry from Athens and Epirus vassals destroying both Ottos stacks when they split which happens often in new patch.
level 3+ (or is it 2+?) discipline guy can give you 10% discipline through excellent advisor event. It is not something to build a strategy around but randomly getting 15% more discipline than ai can be the opportunity to attack that one threat you aren't sure how to handle. Also "technically" manpower guy helps with monuments, not by a lot but still a bit
It's 3+ and it's once-per-game, so while it's hard to time for a specific war, you can time it for something like a mission you need a certain amount of discipline for, by not having the 3+ disc guy until you're at 10 less than the discipline you need.
@@maikatideibaskapanaumrqlatupa Yes, all events that trigger with advisor level 3+ are once per campaign, regardless of tag switching (however you can trigger them again if you play as a released nation, it's very similar to how golden eras behave). They're also not guaranteed to trigger in that advisor's lifespan, so you might need to promote 1-2 before they fire. Most of them are easily recognizable since they have a +50 prestige option (their fame shall spread further than our borders kinda thing)
I think that a lot of the ranking of the advisors also has to come down to who they actually compete against. The 10% production and tax advisors are both admin advisors, so they compete much more against one another, than the 10% trade advisor, who's a dip advisor. Because of that the trade advisor is a lot better even imo, because the other diplo advisors aren't as competetive. The -0,1 yearly inflation advisor effectively reads as "Gain 0,31 monthly admin points extra", as it takes him 20 years (240 months) to reduce inflation by 2, something which you could also buy with 75 admin points. Less if you have modifiers that reduce your monarch point cost. Because of that it's basically always better to hire a different advisor that is reduced by 50% instead, but one rank higher, unless you're already rich enough to sport 5 5 5 advisors.
I wouldnt put the navy advisor so high. It is incredibly niche and I never take it (even in my current WC against a really strong britain I didnt use it. Just build more ships). I would put the dip advisor alot higher though. Annexing subjects faster is definitely worth and when you play Malacca for example and go through all the subject cbs you really need it.
I often run the stability adviser because you get it for half cost with event. If you are playing Catholic, you can just use papal point to buy stability. It kinda become irrelevant.
Some thoughts 1. You want army morale for stackwiping. Basically you stack enough morale modifiers to be able to reliably bring down enemy morale to 0 within 12 days and you satisfy the 2x conditoin by reinforcing. When used right, it saves you WAY more manpower than some 5% discipline. S tier military advisor as you want it whenever you're going for a stackwipe, regardless of early or late game. 2. Improve relations is definately S tier. Early game's biggest bottleneck is AE and it actually makes a difference in that regard. The faster you can reach the point where you can start handling coalitions through war the better, and improve relations help close that gap. Doesn't matter if it's useless afterwards, it serves a crucial role in the most important stage of the game. 3. Stability cost is B tier. It just doesn't do all that much despite the fact that admin point is the most important.
Dip rep is underrated if you play a vassal heavy game. It allows you to annex them much faster. I love vassals, saves you admin on coring and they can siege down stuff while you fight battles. Basically outsourcing admin points to diplo points.
i personally would put improve relations guy at the top of A tier and trade guy in S tier behind inflation guy. other than that pretty good list, it is pretty similar to how i view these guys. although i do tend to in the early game have mostly the land attrition mil advisor and only swap in the discipline or morale when i am at war as money have been a obstacle in my recent games.
Reinforce speed also has a niche use with units that have a lower reinforce speed (banners f.e.) Sieging with these kind of units will result in more attrition than reinforcments. The advisor can turn this around.
I dont think that the inflation reduction is that insane. Especially now you can get a diet if above 30 inflation that removes 15 of it for free and gives you some other stuff. Just take more loans and outscale both the old loans and the inflation and run high lv adm advisor in order to reduce inflation with the diet. Also the tariff advisor doesnt actually take money from the colonies. He just prints 10% more. If you have any such bonus you can see it in the colonies economy. The will lose like 3 ducats to tariffs but you will be getting 4 ducats
I'm surprised about your take on the production advisor. I usually take monopolies early game to stack mercantilism while production income is kinda garbage. And you can swap to him to get a ton of extra cash. I think he's a really good advisor.
Also for dutch minors or any other minor colonial power, it is really situational but still pretty useful to have when you want to get to India or the cape faster.
Colonial range isn't necessary to spawn colonialism with Japan. You don't even need to hold the northern island to have enough reach. Utsusemi for example can discover america without having to expand at all. Having 7 dip tech and +50% range is enough. I would say though it's useful to get to europe asap if you wanna go with a european invasion.
@@Uncleskele I usually play Oda, and I find it often hard to balance enough points from conquering everything. Uniting Japan, getting lvl 5 admin for the ideas, 2 levels in colonialism and lvl 7 dip by 1500 isn't always possible in my experience. Also, it's not about discovering america anymore, you have to actually have at least a colony going in the new world for it to spawn
@@MilkJugA_ next japan playthrough chose either north our south to expand then do at least 5 show strength wars for 500 mana points to the region you are not gonna expand in most cases because japan is chaotic the daimyo you have beaten will get declared on and get eaten afterwards you can eat that person. With this strategy you can get ahead in tech to europe + insitution (if you get colonialism spawned especially i'd recommend savescummin till you get it), forming japan in 1455-65 is really bad you wont even have enough admin at that point for coring everything if you teched up for rennasaince and you will be fighting rebels for 20 years with high autonomy throughout with this strategy you are stable and probably ahead of europe. Formation of Japan should be 1480-90 in this case
Since 100 spy network gives you not 10 but 30% AE reduction in new patch I would consider placing SN advisor in S tier. Also guys, dont you think if religion can give player chosen bonuses, game lacks religious advisor that gives papal influence/church power/patriarch autority ect.?
I would propose that the reinforce speed advisor is at the same level as the inquisitor. When you need him, he is VERY useful, otherwise he is completely irrelevant. Consider wars where you are trying to break a country, or you are attacked and trying not to break. Battles are going to happen at inopportune times. Having fully reinforced armies can come in handy. The niche for reinforce speed comes from needing fight when you already have a decent amount of manpower, and are reasonably comparable to the enemy in terms of discipline and morale. If discipline or morale doesn't push past a break point where stack wipes are happening, or prevents stack wipes, having topped off armies offers the following: Armies do damage based on how reinforced they are. Rolling a 9 on a 500/1000 infantry unit is not nearly as useful as rolling a 6 or 7 on a 1000/1000 infantry unit. Armies that do more damage take less damage because battles can end faster in your favor. Less manpower and money is needed for a war in total. Armies that have more health can survive to retreat or "retreat" depending on needs. Like most things in game, reinforcement numbers are overly complicated to calculate. If using this advisor and fighting in enemy territory, you effectively have 66.5% reinforce speed instead of 50%. Let's say you have a general with 3 maneuver. In your land and with the general, reinforce speed is 130% base and elsewhere is 80% base. +33% global reinforce changes those numbers to 172.9% and 106.4% respectively. If you also have defensive ideas, it becomes even faster. Chaining fights becomes a lot easier. Sieging gets easier too. Let's say a siege has been going for a year. That 26 extra soldiers per month becomes 312 soldiers, per unit, over the course of a year, and can absolutely be the difference between needing to fight and scaring the enemy off. Please note that zombie regiments are a thing... If a unit falls to 0 soldiers and they are on the front line, they stay on the front lines for the first 12 days of the battle. They do nothing to the enemy, but do allow your backline and reinforcements to take morale damage.
i mean, how many people are truce breaking or playing low legitimacy republics to use that stability advisor often? he's F tier for me because even if he does get some use in the small instances i need him, he's not useful outside of it and i fire him for another admin advisor.
Land force limit is a constant problem for me. I usually try to pu burgundy (and avoid inheriting it). By the mid 1500s burgundy ends up with larger force limit and manpower than me even though my own dev is more than double of burgundy. Oh yeah my rivals who have less than a quarter of my dev, still has much bigger manpower pool and force limit. Like how.
get vassals for early force limit (and save admin). also fl building is important and if you struggle you can go for ideas with fl. maybe your autonomy is high as well? could also be something to work on
@@PeterCorless exactly If you don't block ottoman expansion into the Levant, they they'll blob to the point where they'll have 1 million troops and like have a million plus max manpower by mid 1600s
Diplo rep isn't overrated. Sometimes, it's the difference between making progress annexing vassals and not when you have the modifier from already annexing.
Reinforce speed is only good if you’re fighting a major war where you don’t have the obvious advantage and are fighting nonstop but otherwise he’s pretty useless
I agree with tariff advisor being F, but one small use case is intentionally keeping colonial subjects in debt to get liberty desire reduction from paying off their loans. It's still rarely worth it though, since there are plenty of other ways to keep those subjects loyal without wasting money and advisor slots.
Prestige sucks imho. Early game it can be okay. But prestige is so easy to come buy in the mid and late game. Winning battles, winning wars, religious conversions, dozens of monuments that give prestige bonuses. I'm rarely low on prestige after the early game.
morale of navies and force limit advisors are really useful. for any run where navies to control fight over important passings like the gibraltar or gelibolu , morale of navies can be key difference maker. my byzantium game always involves morale of navies guy to win the decisive engagement vs ottomans. same with morocco run vs iberian fleets. Dip rep is super important. if you are playing it right, spending all the mana is harder part than gaining mana points. dip rep speeds up diplo annex which in itself makes it atleast B tier. i'd rate it higher given how important dip rep is in HRE and as a smaller nation trying to make diplomatic moves.
@@kaankanca4634 yes. but it is making it better for your economy by integrating a vassal technically 15-20% faster and also often can make a difference in releasing next vassal while conserving max relation slots. dip rep is no joke when integrating large vassals and PUs. and integrating faster is huge gains on economy. often can increase economy by 20% if you have a sizeable PU/vassal
The manpower advisor is best in my opinion for mid and late game because you really need the morale and discipline bonus in the early to win important wars but in the mid and late game you really only take fights that you’re going to stomp in
@@grabbers6520 attrition also is a factor in the late game you can’t really pay attention to provinces supply limit since it’s more important to win the battles and micromanage
you can`t get stackwiped as long as you have atleast 50% of the enemy troops. higher discipline will move the kill/death ratio in your favour and you can't really get stackwiped.
I see. We did this live. and I was not 100% sure. The fact is that is is just worse then trade income for example. But I am sure you know that. The guy is just obsolete imo.
10% morale beats 5% discipline in combat outcome at every tech from 1-32 last I checked. I don't see how this becomes less relevant in 1700s, when you rarely fight pitched battles and might choose to storm forts (where discipline is meaningless). "Morale is better early, discipline is better late" isn't a thing in SP.
I think the weakest advisors are the ones that save/earn you money. At least with the colonial range guy, I can think of situations in which i would want or need that guy just to be able to barely reach that province i can springboard off of. The land maintenence guy at the start of the game won't save you much money, and by the time he does save you alot, your economy should be large enough for it to not matter (plus you should be focusing on increasing income rather than decreasing expenditure).
About those mil advisors Morale of armies, generally stronger than discipline early on. Late game, weaker because thats when you really start to lose unites. Land maintenance. Super powerful in certain situations. I had over 1K troops as Austria. Lots of cannons. But I needed governing capacity so I should spam those buildings. And if I took the maintenance, I would actually earn more money because of my army being so expensive And my vassal swarm was just slamming everyone so I did not need those.
I do not agree with consensus that morale advisor is better early and discipline is better late. Discipline advisor also increases military tactics, and by extension siege ability. Discipline is in my opinion, always the better over morale.
Discipline is worse in the early game because it makes your rebels stronger and the ai heavily considers your morale for diplomacy. Both are arguably better. Also, morale helps when you barrage and attack forts. Late game, morale doesn't matter because you can stack wipe easily with stacked discipline modifiers.
Diplomatic advisor should be S. AE is one of the prime hard limitations to expansion along with admin points, OE, and WS costs. Should be run for around 2/3rds of the game (as soon as you've hit radical reforms and until the late game when you don't care about AE). Morale > Discipline always because Morale is what the AI takes into account when deciding your army strength, meaning it will avoid attacking your sieging armies or run away from its sieges easier. It also saves you manpower by ending battles quicker in your favor. Discipline is only better when you are trying to achieve a better K:D ratio and literally exhaust your opponents of manpower before you run out, which is not good SP strategy.
Imo manpower advisor is unecessary, how many troops you lost in a battle? A lot. Measly 10% manpower won't help you much. Use discipline and morale instead to make faster wars, faster ears means less troop lost. Manpower advisor is not that necessary, if we need troops just use mercs, and build cavalry regiments to supplement it. The mercs infantry will engage first, our cavalry flanked and done wonderful damage. Our infantry will reinforce (dont merge with first stack), in normal diff you can beat anything, even ming as oirats easily and with that overwhelming enemy numbers, you dont need manpower (we dont even match their numbers anyway) because if infantry take loses we just consolidate them, but cavalry is costly so manpower goes to reinforce it, discipline and morale and lots of mercs instead. I only use manpower at peace when i have nothing to do, most of time i go to war anyway. I rated it as B tier.
I think you missed the point here. He's not talking about its value using the advisor all the time, just switching to it situationally, where it can be super valuable (like when slackening). You get most of the value without promoting, and can still run another mil advisor the rest of the time.
Theres a reason why radical reforms is the inflation + trade guy. Paradox telling you what advisors to run.
100%
Except paradox doesn't tell SHIT, you have to read the wiki to know that 😂
The biggest advantage of the manpower advisor over the discipline or morale advisors imo is that it helps you out even when you aren't fighting. If you aren't fighting another army the discipline and morale advisors do nothing.
morale advisor helps you when fighting rebels
@@turkishultranationalist that would be fighting another army
I don't get why manpower is so good. I might be doing something wrong, but I have never had an issue with manpower and I don't pay much attention to it, especially after 1500. Burn all manpower on monuments my armies don't need it! For real, why is it good? I don't get it, even my friend told me it's good. I don't see it.
So I can see a case for the advisor when you slacken, or early. But later on in the game I rarely have manpower issues, and even if I'm not always capped, the extra 5% disc to force more stack wipes will save way more manpower in wars for sure.
I can see it being rated highly for the utility to swap to it when you want to slacken, but definitely not higher than morale or disc (depending on time, or national ideas) when at most you'll be switching to it for a month to slacken, and running something else 99% of the time.
@@Rommel12 I agree
I hate taking loans. I am an average proper economy enjoyer.
Yeah that is 100% normal.
I used to be the same way, it slows down the playstyle significantly, now I constantly border bancruptcy and do constant expansion wars for bigger loans to pay down the smaller ones.. Help, I can't stop, it all collapses if I stop😅
Our real economy is running on loans tho😂
Discipline advisor also gives your rebels +5% discipline while the morale advisor doesnt give his bonus to your rebels.
Production efficiency can be stronger than tax in India, Persia and China (and other regions with expensive trade goods like cacao and cloves and spice ) if you dont control trade or have an awkward trade node, and he protects you from the comet stability hit event.
The stability admin advisor saves you points when you stab up but even if you stab up 3 or 4 times in a row after that he isnt doing anything so you gotta pay for another one or have him just for the points so maybe not A tier but situational like B tier.
Production efficiency is better than tax regardless of where you are after a certain timepoint in the game. When that timepoint is depends on your location in the world.
I was going to comment about the stab advisor as well. I rarely stab up more than maybe once or twice in an entire game, as events will keep me at 3 for most of the game regardless. That said, sure. It has a lot of value to swap over to for a month. And sure, it can be expensive, but money is a much easier resource to get than admin points (war spoils etc). Could definitely see it being B or C for that purpose, but he's got it way high for something that's of use maybe a handful of times throughout a 400 year campaign.
@@Rommel12 The relevant time period for using him is like when you dont earn as much from trade, but have some workshops and manufactories so you earn more than from tax.
I don’t think he protects you from comet anymore
on the contrary, stab guy is actually broken strong and I don't understand how he puts inflation guy on S tier while the stab guy on A. A simple calculation would tell you the story: inflation guy gives you -0.1 inflation per year, which can only really be translated into admin mana in case you actually want to spend admin mana to reduce inflation (not always). In case you do want, 75 admin gives you -2 inflation, which means the inflation guy produces 3.75 admin mana worth of inflation reduction per year. Compare to the stab guy who, when needed, can instantly grant you around 8-12 admin PER stab level that you are stabbing up, and then you can fire him in two months for another useful guy. The difference is so big here.
@@basileusfang811 Inflation impacts cost of many things and is recalculated every month. Stability advisor indirectly has the additional cost of hiring him for the stab up and re hiring some other after. All in all if you dont consider money as a factor in the game the discussion goes to mana only, but there is the place EU4 falls apart. As there are no true abstractions and its all a bunch of mana based bullshit.
Inflation advisor reduces inflation by 0.1 per year. It would take 20 years to equal the 75 admin cost of pressing the reduce inflation button. So he's an extra 3.75 admin per year, or around 0.3 per month. So you could look at a level 5 inflation advisor as giving you 5.3 admin per month instead of 5. Seems pretty good, but not always better than unrest or stability cost as mentioned.
5.3 to 5 aint that much, but early when you have to take loans and need to value every admin point 1.3 comparing to 1 is quite decent long term
the reason why its better is that you would only temporarily swap in the stab cost guy for when you are stabbing up but you would want inflation reduction always.
and the unrest is usually not a useful advantage as rebels will still happen unless you are stacking modifiers and they can disrupt enemies so it is sometimes a advantage.
Very small but the production advisor increases settler chance too
Didn’t know that thanks
If you play multiplayer, reinforce speed is huge for multiplayer wars. But I agree in singleplayer it's not very useful
I have had plenty of times where I was fighting endless hordes of AI. And me reinforcing to slowly did me in, so it would have definitely helped out there.
Reinforce Speed can be useful if you are playing a colonial nation and navally invading a far away country e.g. Britain invading India. You will have tiny disjointed stepping stone provinces which you colonised so you can’t recruit vast amounts of men plus it will be headache to micromanage and transport all those 1k units. You cannot recruit Manpower Troops in occupied enemy provinces so you’re best bet is to reinforce.
just consolidate
@@maikatideibaskapanaumrqlatupa it's not about that, it's about after you fought like 3 battles in a row and your consolidated stack is at 30k inf out of 90k and you are considering going back to your land so your troops reinforce faster before you can press on to forts.
Mega important for defending in a multiplayer war especially, just repelling waves of a larger army using defensive bonuses and reinforcing
Fleet morale should be lower as you take it only once when you invade England.
Underrated comment.
Tariff advisor doesn't actively kill the economy of your colonies. It's simply adding to the already existing tariff your colony is set on, increasing your income but not the colony's obligation to you. Essentially making money out of thin air much like trade, production and tax guy. Still sucks.
Didn’t realise there could be so much info in a tier list. Good video mate.
Stability cost advisor saves you literally 10 mana points (or 20 if you increase stability twice). And you do it maybe 10 times in the entire game, which altogether gives you 100 admin points. This is completely negligible. It's D tier at best. And you put it above the trade advisor and relations advisor.
Also prestige advisor can be useful only in the very early game, when you do not win many wars. Later you're always at 100 prestige. And if you used your prestige on disinheriting, it's much better two win a war or two than to wait 50 years for your prestige to return to max, while you can have many better advisors in the meantime. Under almost any circumstances it's better to have the production or tax advisor than the prestige guy.
Your videos are always high quality but here I felt you did not think it through.
The Production advisor saving you from stab hits is worth the price of admission more than the stab cost advisor.
I would only switch to the stab cost advisor if, say, you did one of those events that cost you 2 to 5 stab hits and you want to bounce back quick. But other than that, useless.
Im huge fan of improved relationships advisor, imo he is essential in the strategy you mentioned for inflation advisor. Imo he is S tier over trade.
Yeah absolutey agree with this. While trade is the best advisor for increasing your income, i think that money is the weakest aspect for advisors
It's insane to think that the improve relation advisor was actually heavily nerfed and is still (imo) the best diplo advisor
Both are good. More income is always useful. Losing AE faster is also useful. I'd say however that after stacking a few improve relations bonuses, from full diplo and 100 prestige, the effect felt is proportionally smaller.
After a certain point in the game you also don't really care about coalitions, especially if you can keep everyone in check with truce timing.
Budget Monk's argument also stands (he gave the example of a horde in asia) but if you're playing a nation that isn't "known" by other nations, or you yourself don't "know" the other nations, they don't get AE towards you or cannot join coalitions respectively. This is another reason why asian hordes are so stupidly strong, because few nations start with maps of Oirat for instance.
It's noteworthy that both level 3 discounted trader advisors and discounted level 3 improve relations advisors can be obtained from estate missions quite easily, but trader is much easier and reliable to get:
The trader - burghers require you increase your trade power up a notch(unless it's already >50%) in a trade node you've got a merchant assigned in or is your home node, and can be easily fished for by removing merchants temporarily in non-coastal nodes and stopping your trade fleet from protecting trade, then if you get it you can send your fleet to protect trade there, instant complete it, and then repair your trade situation again.
The diplomat - nobles require you improve relations with a nation that is a rival of one of your rivals, provided that nation isn't already lower than -50 or higher than 50 relations.This one is only easy to do early game, since later you won't have many rivals if at all, or everyone will hate your guts beyond -50. Having more than 50% manpower in your pool might also not be feasible as to avoid getting the "recover manpower" agenda for discounted military advisor instead.
They are pretty situational imo and once I have piles of money I switch a lot. I like the national unrest guy and inflation reduction guy, the discipline one or force limit one can also be handy
I like to think I switch alot, but I often forget to
Force limit guy can be game changer early when you are fighting many wars and lack those 3-4 units to fully flank enemy stacks with your calvarly saving you both manpower and cash from reinforcements after battle. Byzantium for example can go full 20 front row with 14 instead of 12 troops + 2 x 3 infantry from Athens and Epirus vassals destroying both Ottos stacks when they split which happens often in new patch.
@@zacharyp8617 Dunno really, but i think paying for 3 over fl with fl advisor is cheaper than paying for 5 over fl with maintenance one
level 3+ (or is it 2+?) discipline guy can give you 10% discipline through excellent advisor event.
It is not something to build a strategy around but randomly getting 15% more discipline than ai can be the opportunity to attack that one threat you aren't sure how to handle.
Also "technically" manpower guy helps with monuments, not by a lot but still a bit
It's 3+ and it's once-per-game, so while it's hard to time for a specific war, you can time it for something like a mission you need a certain amount of discipline for, by not having the 3+ disc guy until you're at 10 less than the discipline you need.
@@agf863 the inspirational leader event is once per campaign?
@@maikatideibaskapanaumrqlatupa Yes, all events that trigger with advisor level 3+ are once per campaign, regardless of tag switching (however you can trigger them again if you play as a released nation, it's very similar to how golden eras behave). They're also not guaranteed to trigger in that advisor's lifespan, so you might need to promote 1-2 before they fire. Most of them are easily recognizable since they have a +50 prestige option (their fame shall spread further than our borders kinda thing)
Someone said "Nerdy nerds"?
I'm there.
Me, who always drop colonial tariffs to 0:
Sir, you drop that tariff advisor right down to Z tier
I think that a lot of the ranking of the advisors also has to come down to who they actually compete against. The 10% production and tax advisors are both admin advisors, so they compete much more against one another, than the 10% trade advisor, who's a dip advisor.
Because of that the trade advisor is a lot better even imo, because the other diplo advisors aren't as competetive.
The -0,1 yearly inflation advisor effectively reads as "Gain 0,31 monthly admin points extra", as it takes him 20 years (240 months) to reduce inflation by 2, something which you could also buy with 75 admin points. Less if you have modifiers that reduce your monarch point cost.
Because of that it's basically always better to hire a different advisor that is reduced by 50% instead, but one rank higher, unless you're already rich enough to sport 5 5 5 advisors.
Didin't even have to click on the video as I know the portraits and saw the result in the video thumbnail
I wouldnt put the navy advisor so high. It is incredibly niche and I never take it (even in my current WC against a really strong britain I didnt use it. Just build more ships).
I would put the dip advisor alot higher though. Annexing subjects faster is definitely worth and when you play Malacca for example and go through all the subject cbs you really need it.
You talk about loans and inflation in a videogame with more wisdom than central bankers
The colonial range advisor needs to be buffed. Maybe decrease colony maintenance cost too. Or maybe increase settler chance too.
I always go Production advisor for late game - *plus* for the protection against stab hits. Hate the damned comets.
I often run the stability adviser because you get it for half cost with event. If you are playing Catholic, you can just use papal point to buy stability. It kinda become irrelevant.
THIS.
The production advisor turns the -1 stab comet event into a +1 stab event (sometimes?)
Some thoughts
1. You want army morale for stackwiping. Basically you stack enough morale modifiers to be able to reliably bring down enemy morale to 0 within 12 days and you satisfy the 2x conditoin by reinforcing. When used right, it saves you WAY more manpower than some 5% discipline. S tier military advisor as you want it whenever you're going for a stackwipe, regardless of early or late game.
2. Improve relations is definately S tier. Early game's biggest bottleneck is AE and it actually makes a difference in that regard. The faster you can reach the point where you can start handling coalitions through war the better, and improve relations help close that gap. Doesn't matter if it's useless afterwards, it serves a crucial role in the most important stage of the game.
3. Stability cost is B tier. It just doesn't do all that much despite the fact that admin point is the most important.
Dip rep is underrated if you play a vassal heavy game. It allows you to annex them much faster. I love vassals, saves you admin on coring and they can siege down stuff while you fight battles. Basically outsourcing admin points to diplo points.
i personally would put improve relations guy at the top of A tier and trade guy in S tier behind inflation guy.
other than that pretty good list, it is pretty similar to how i view these guys.
although i do tend to in the early game have mostly the land attrition mil advisor and only swap in the discipline or morale when i am at war as money have been a obstacle in my recent games.
Reinforce speed also has a niche use with units that have a lower reinforce speed (banners f.e.) Sieging with these kind of units will result in more attrition than reinforcments. The advisor can turn this around.
Solution - don't siege with special units duh.
@@DanielRBW Most, if not all, of these units cost half to 0 of your own manpower to reinforce. So you should use them wherever you can.
@@Vincrand Yes, use them to kill stuff rather than killing them off sieging and not having them when you need them.
@@DanielRBW if you are fighting at other places than sieges you are likely doing something wrong.
I literally have more than 3k hours in eu4 and my brain is rejecting the existence of tariff advisor.
Manpower and inflation guy should be in S tier in my opinion. Sometimes I just have them by default, not even looking for others
How can trade not be an S?
Hell yes. Great video idea
would've put navy morale in D tier too. its very niche and having high prestige and spamming galleys does more for your navy than that +10% ever will.
Wrong, the best advisor is no advisor.
Why?
no advisor = no extra mana generated
what are you going to do with all of that extra gold?
mana is the #1 important currency in this game
@@jaggaaff5606 >he doesn't know the no advisor meta
I dont think that the inflation reduction is that insane. Especially now you can get a diet if above 30 inflation that removes 15 of it for free and gives you some other stuff. Just take more loans and outscale both the old loans and the inflation and run high lv adm advisor in order to reduce inflation with the diet. Also the tariff advisor doesnt actually take money from the colonies. He just prints 10% more. If you have any such bonus you can see it in the colonies economy. The will lose like 3 ducats to tariffs but you will be getting 4 ducats
Missionary is great for long-term stability though.
I'm surprised about your take on the production advisor. I usually take monopolies early game to stack mercantilism while production income is kinda garbage. And you can swap to him to get a ton of extra cash. I think he's a really good advisor.
Love tier lists
Diplomat is the best advisor. Anything to avoid coalitions.
The quartermaster is an easy s for me if you are playing in tropical/arctic regions.
Never needed unrest advisor, not even in my rome run lol
Music mixing is a bit off in the beginning of the video
Logistician is pretty usefull for the first wars of big powers whose manpower is depleted in the early game. Such as Oirat for example.
colonial range is pretty good for japan to spawn colonialism. and that's pretty much it.
Also for dutch minors or any other minor colonial power, it is really situational but still pretty useful to have when you want to get to India or the cape faster.
Colonial range isn't necessary to spawn colonialism with Japan. You don't even need to hold the northern island to have enough reach. Utsusemi for example can discover america without having to expand at all. Having 7 dip tech and +50% range is enough. I would say though it's useful to get to europe asap if you wanna go with a european invasion.
@@Uncleskele I usually play Oda, and I find it often hard to balance enough points from conquering everything. Uniting Japan, getting lvl 5 admin for the ideas, 2 levels in colonialism and lvl 7 dip by 1500 isn't always possible in my experience. Also, it's not about discovering america anymore, you have to actually have at least a colony going in the new world for it to spawn
@@MilkJugA_ next japan playthrough chose either north our south to expand then do at least 5 show strength wars for 500 mana points to the region you are not gonna expand in most cases because japan is chaotic the daimyo you have beaten will get declared on and get eaten afterwards you can eat that person. With this strategy you can get ahead in tech to europe + insitution (if you get colonialism spawned especially i'd recommend savescummin till you get it), forming japan in 1455-65 is really bad you wont even have enough admin at that point for coring everything if you teched up for rennasaince and you will be fighting rebels for 20 years with high autonomy throughout with this strategy you are stable and probably ahead of europe. Formation of Japan should be 1480-90 in this case
@@MilkJugA_ 5 is bare minimum by the way you do up to 10-12 depending on how chaotic japan is
Since 100 spy network gives you not 10 but 30% AE reduction in new patch I would consider placing SN advisor in S tier.
Also guys, dont you think if religion can give player chosen bonuses, game lacks religious advisor that gives papal influence/church power/patriarch autority ect.?
thats a good idea,
The AE is against the country you are taking stuff from not the other countries so it's not really that strong.
I would propose that the reinforce speed advisor is at the same level as the inquisitor. When you need him, he is VERY useful, otherwise he is completely irrelevant. Consider wars where you are trying to break a country, or you are attacked and trying not to break. Battles are going to happen at inopportune times. Having fully reinforced armies can come in handy. The niche for reinforce speed comes from needing fight when you already have a decent amount of manpower, and are reasonably comparable to the enemy in terms of discipline and morale. If discipline or morale doesn't push past a break point where stack wipes are happening, or prevents stack wipes, having topped off armies offers the following:
Armies do damage based on how reinforced they are. Rolling a 9 on a 500/1000 infantry unit is not nearly as useful as rolling a 6 or 7 on a 1000/1000 infantry unit.
Armies that do more damage take less damage because battles can end faster in your favor. Less manpower and money is needed for a war in total.
Armies that have more health can survive to retreat or "retreat" depending on needs.
Like most things in game, reinforcement numbers are overly complicated to calculate. If using this advisor and fighting in enemy territory, you effectively have 66.5% reinforce speed instead of 50%.
Let's say you have a general with 3 maneuver. In your land and with the general, reinforce speed is 130% base and elsewhere is 80% base. +33% global reinforce changes those numbers to 172.9% and 106.4% respectively. If you also have defensive ideas, it becomes even faster. Chaining fights becomes a lot easier.
Sieging gets easier too. Let's say a siege has been going for a year. That 26 extra soldiers per month becomes 312 soldiers, per unit, over the course of a year, and can absolutely be the difference between needing to fight and scaring the enemy off.
Please note that zombie regiments are a thing... If a unit falls to 0 soldiers and they are on the front line, they stay on the front lines for the first 12 days of the battle. They do nothing to the enemy, but do allow your backline and reinforcements to take morale damage.
I think they fixed the zombie regiments thing
Missionary and spymaster are S-tier.
Land Force Limit is useful in a tall run
Nice
i mean, how many people are truce breaking or playing low legitimacy republics to use that stability advisor often? he's F tier for me because even if he does get some use in the small instances i need him, he's not useful outside of it and i fire him for another admin advisor.
what about tax meta?
there needs to be a mercenary advisor
I think Reinforce guy is an E or F - the reinforce speed is so rarely a Good Thing.
In MP reinforce speed is useful
In late game when you want large stacks to scare off ai, you need good reinforcement. Also, it helps a lot when you carpet siege with 1 k stacks.
Land force limit is a constant problem for me. I usually try to pu burgundy (and avoid inheriting it). By the mid 1500s burgundy ends up with larger force limit and manpower than me even though my own dev is more than double of burgundy. Oh yeah my rivals who have less than a quarter of my dev, still has much bigger manpower pool and force limit. Like how.
Autonomy probably? Are you playing on very hard? It sounds like autonomy is the major thing here
get vassals for early force limit (and save admin). also fl building is important and if you struggle you can go for ideas with fl. maybe your autonomy is high as well? could also be something to work on
@@TheMightofDabI turn any province I could into trade company, and state the rest.
Anyone trying to take down Otto mid-to-late game really needs land force.
@@PeterCorless exactly
If you don't block ottoman expansion into the Levant, they they'll blob to the point where they'll have 1 million troops and like have a million plus max manpower by mid 1600s
Oh yeah lol, there's a tariffs advisor
Diplo rep isn't overrated. Sometimes, it's the difference between making progress annexing vassals and not when you have the modifier from already annexing.
Gotta say Budget you look good in this video.
the reinforce guy is the best advisor in late game multiplayer.
Reinforce speed is only good if you’re fighting a major war where you don’t have the obvious advantage and are fighting nonstop but otherwise he’s pretty useless
I agree with tariff advisor being F, but one small use case is intentionally keeping colonial subjects in debt to get liberty desire reduction from paying off their loans. It's still rarely worth it though, since there are plenty of other ways to keep those subjects loyal without wasting money and advisor slots.
Prestige sucks imho. Early game it can be okay. But prestige is so easy to come buy in the mid and late game. Winning battles, winning wars, religious conversions, dozens of monuments that give prestige bonuses. I'm rarely low on prestige after the early game.
You re too kind Monk :D
Just put the morale of navies and force limit guys into D or E. And Dip rep is more C than B.
morale of navies and force limit advisors are really useful. for any run where navies to control fight over important passings like the gibraltar or gelibolu , morale of navies can be key difference maker. my byzantium game always involves morale of navies guy to win the decisive engagement vs ottomans. same with morocco run vs iberian fleets. Dip rep is super important. if you are playing it right, spending all the mana is harder part than gaining mana points. dip rep speeds up diplo annex which in itself makes it atleast B tier. i'd rate it higher given how important dip rep is in HRE and as a smaller nation trying to make diplomatic moves.
@@Suhaschintala Dip rep speeds it up but it doesn’t make it cheaper
@@kaankanca4634 yes. but it is making it better for your economy by integrating a vassal technically 15-20% faster and also often can make a difference in releasing next vassal while conserving max relation slots.
dip rep is no joke when integrating large vassals and PUs. and integrating faster is huge gains on economy. often can increase economy by 20% if you have a sizeable PU/vassal
The manpower advisor is best in my opinion for mid and late game because you really need the morale and discipline bonus in the early to win important wars but in the mid and late game you really only take fights that you’re going to stomp in
In those situations it's probably still worth it to use Discpline since it would save more manpower
You're not gonna need more men if you don't lose them in the first place, but manpower is definitely useful for interwar periods
@@grabbers6520 attrition also is a factor in the late game you can’t really pay attention to provinces supply limit since it’s more important to win the battles and micromanage
I have to say every starting game, I need
Philosopher for prestige
Stateman for better allies
Commandant for early win
Sad very hard
in late game vanilla eu4 mp morale is king compared to dsicipline (millions getting stackwiped if not)
you can`t get stackwiped as long as you have atleast 50% of the enemy troops. higher discipline will move the kill/death ratio in your favour and you can't really get stackwiped.
switch when we slacken, so we can get 700 troops instead of 650. I like it. (slacken is such garbage now)
imagine not using an adblocker in 2023 lmao
Tarrifs modifiers don't take more money from your colonial nations, it prints money(doesn't make it any better but still)
I see. We did this live. and I was not 100% sure. The fact is that is is just worse then trade income for example. But I am sure you know that. The guy is just obsolete imo.
10% morale beats 5% discipline in combat outcome at every tech from 1-32 last I checked. I don't see how this becomes less relevant in 1700s, when you rarely fight pitched battles and might choose to storm forts (where discipline is meaningless). "Morale is better early, discipline is better late" isn't a thing in SP.
At later techs, with full back row of artillery, you can wipe enemy armies before they run out of morale with good rolls.
5 disciplines saves you a lot of manpower in tech after 12-15, and even bug chunk before so its better than morale
I think the weakest advisors are the ones that save/earn you money.
At least with the colonial range guy, I can think of situations in which i would want or need that guy just to be able to barely reach that province i can springboard off of. The land maintenence guy at the start of the game won't save you much money, and by the time he does save you alot, your economy should be large enough for it to not matter (plus you should be focusing on increasing income rather than decreasing expenditure).
About those mil advisors
Morale of armies, generally stronger than discipline early on.
Late game, weaker because thats when you really start to lose unites.
Land maintenance. Super powerful in certain situations.
I had over 1K troops as Austria. Lots of cannons. But I needed governing capacity so I should spam those buildings.
And if I took the maintenance, I would actually earn more money because of my army being so expensive
And my vassal swarm was just slamming everyone so I did not need those.
tbh when I saw the title I really thought you are going to make this a waifu list😓
Guide: How to not make a tier list
I do not agree with consensus that morale advisor is better early and discipline is better late. Discipline advisor also increases military tactics, and by extension siege ability. Discipline is in my opinion, always the better over morale.
Discipline is worse in the early game because it makes your rebels stronger and the ai heavily considers your morale for diplomacy. Both are arguably better. Also, morale helps when you barrage and attack forts. Late game, morale doesn't matter because you can stack wipe easily with stacked discipline modifiers.
Diplomatic advisor should be S. AE is one of the prime hard limitations to expansion along with admin points, OE, and WS costs. Should be run for around 2/3rds of the game (as soon as you've hit radical reforms and until the late game when you don't care about AE).
Morale > Discipline always because Morale is what the AI takes into account when deciding your army strength, meaning it will avoid attacking your sieging armies or run away from its sieges easier. It also saves you manpower by ending battles quicker in your favor. Discipline is only better when you are trying to achieve a better K:D ratio and literally exhaust your opponents of manpower before you run out, which is not good SP strategy.
As a Eu4 player who almost have 4K hours on this game, I disagree with everything you mentioned.
@5:12 Can you please tell me how you got divine Ideas that quickly?
I disagree
Imo manpower advisor is unecessary, how many troops you lost in a battle? A lot. Measly 10% manpower won't help you much. Use discipline and morale instead to make faster wars, faster ears means less troop lost.
Manpower advisor is not that necessary, if we need troops just use mercs, and build cavalry regiments to supplement it. The mercs infantry will engage first, our cavalry flanked and done wonderful damage. Our infantry will reinforce (dont merge with first stack), in normal diff you can beat anything, even ming as oirats easily and with that overwhelming enemy numbers, you dont need manpower (we dont even match their numbers anyway) because if infantry take loses we just consolidate them, but cavalry is costly so manpower goes to reinforce it, discipline and morale and lots of mercs instead.
I only use manpower at peace when i have nothing to do, most of time i go to war anyway. I rated it as B tier.
I think you missed the point here. He's not talking about its value using the advisor all the time, just switching to it situationally, where it can be super valuable (like when slackening). You get most of the value without promoting, and can still run another mil advisor the rest of the time.