Hope you guys enjoy this discussion about some of the things we find the most difficult about living abroad in France long term. After a while, many of the things that are hardest are just about life and not France specifically. Maybe you can relate? A big thanks to Kate for this collab. Be sure to check out our video together on her channel all about insider tips for ordering at the French bakery: bit.ly/2NHQtNv
I'm a French guy, living in the US for more than 15 years now, and it's just funny how I can relate to your stories and feelings from the other side of the pond. Seems like these are stories common to many expats. Thanks for doing all these great videos by the way 😁👍!
You both Nailed it! I’m an American living in Germany ( minutes from the French boarder) married to a German husband. The home thing, breaking into the tight friendship circles, all of it! I work with Americans, in an American company. So glad it’s not just me!
...Talking about making friends...I’m French born and raised and have been living on the US west coast for a Long time. I was not an introverted person, but the familiarity of Americans really surprised me when I arrived...Asking personal questions, calling me “frenchy” or my first name, talking about their sex lives...Definitely not what I was used to!
Thank you for this! Our plan is to retire in France (my husband is French). I have only been to France in two week stints and there are moments walking around where I think, "I really could live here..." and then something will happen minutes after and I will think, "I wanna go home...!"
Even though I am almost 71 years old and lived in France in the early 70's before returning to the States (to Cajun French Louisiana for 10 years, as it happens ;-) I can definitely relate to all of your comments. Most especially I can relate to the idea that we have one persona that we develop growing up in a given culture and in a given language and we start to develop a different persona in a different language if we truly immerse ourselves in that new environment (which I did, avoiding the Americans like the plague and even dressing like a French guy with the advantage that I have a strong talent for foreign languages and had a near perfect French accent, which definitely helps you integrate into French society). The most telling moment I had about these different personas that you develop came one day when I was in Aix-en-Provence on the Cours Mirabeau and saw two Frenchmen having an argument. I was able to follow most of what they were saying (although people yelling is always harder to understand in a foreign language) and then at some point I had this weird experience of having two different reactions to what was going on, one from my original American self and one from my newly formed and growing French self. What was even weirder is that I found myself located in this space in between those two reactions and was consciously aware that I had both options available and I could freely choose which persona to merge into. It made me think of the Zen Buddhist notion of enlightenment where you realize you are a higher self that does not need to be bound to earthly, transitory and temporal reality. Well, it was the closest I ever came to "satori" (enlightenment) and it really blew my mind. But I also new I could not function on a practical plane in that state, so I had to choose to merge into one of those two personas. It turns out I chose the American persona, probably just because it was easier and more familiar. I always wonder to this day how I would have evolved differently had I chosen to merge into my French persona. L'on ne sait jamais. La vie est toujours pleine de surprises, et des bonnes et des mauvaises!
I grew up abroad as an American expat. I did not feel like I fit in when I came back home. One reason I have chosen to live in cities like NYC, Washington, DC, and Oakland during my professional life us because I often felt like an outsider in my home states in the South (often because of my non-Southern accent)--even among family members. The good thing about large urban areas here is that you can have greater access to international airports, community with others who love to travel/have lived globally, and to cultural spaces/restaurants you can visit when you feel nostalgic.
I really appreciate what you’ve shared. Particularly about where to settle your family in the future, the uncertainties that come with the possibilities (esp. the bad ones) bring much anxiety to expats. In the end we never really know until we actually take that step, but we can only prepare to the best of our abilities and then leave everything to fate once we’ve done our part. But hopefully our family remains intact and in good shape regardless of the experience. Thank you for opening up! 💕
I know I will never live in France but I find these conversations very interesting. As Diane put it the issues are "real" as in real life, everyday issues that everyone encounters! I am happy you and Kate found each other. It must be so helpful to have another American to discuss issues and day to day life with!
What a great chat. You bring up some great points about language that most people don't factor into the equation when they imagine living in another country. It always looks easier on paper and in your mind but then actually doing it is another thing. It's real-life fraught with real problems. Going to check out unintentionally Frenchified video now.
Fascinating video, thank you for such an interesting topic. I’m an American living in Sydney, Australia, and while there is rarely a language barrier I relate to a lot of the things you discussed.
I can totally relate to the health issues and the relationship issues. I've had to learn how to be super direct with my French boyfriend, far more than I ever would have been with an American boyfriend. For the health issues, you have to learn how to describe your symptoms, all kinds of medical vocabulary (thank goodness for the internet now because that makes it so much easier), and even just navigating how a different health care system works. Even just the etiquette of "Where do I wait? How do I greet the doctor? What should I expect? Where and when do I pay?" Those things would be annoyances normally, but having it be added on to a health issue that you're already really anxious about just elevates the stress level that much more. I can also relate soooo much to not feeling 100% like myself in French. There's a side of me my boyfriend (and everyone else) will probably never totally get because I don't know how to be that person in French and he doesn't totally get it when I'm like that in English. Gosh I know I've had so many awkward moments with his friends....where I'm trying to make a joke like I normally would and there are just crickets chirping in response. It's like "yikes, well that one didn't go over. Let's move on."
Great video both. Thank you for talking about these aspects of life here in France. I enjoyed hearing about all the different profiles of expats. I think people unconsciously develop an avatar of what life in France looks like for them, and it never hurts to be reminded that everyone's situation is different. That it's ok to be on your specific path with all its ups and downs. I'd take that any day over forever wondering what if... Regarding your point about possibly losing a core part of yourself the longer you stay away from your country of origine (choosing not to say "home" because home is wherever you feel it is), I think this one is best decided per person because me personally, I moved because I was lost and didn't feel at all fulfilled back in the UK. So when I go back to the UK, I can never imagine living there again because this French chapter of my life has taught me so much about myself and I've blossomed. It's changed completely how I see the UK. London at least, where I grew up. It's extremely subjective and personal. This has lead me to start entertaining the notion that one could feel like their life is sort of "on hold" during their time in France. Maybe you weren't suggesting that at all but it's sent my thoughts down an interesting path. And I think that's a terrible shame if that happens a lot. I'm not sure. I think there'll always be stuff we'll miss out on that are happening in the lives of our loved ones back in our previous country (or city even!) but we have to do what's right for us and can't be in 2 places at once. In order to be happy we need to be happy with our present and our network in our current home. As long as that is the case, living abroad is much more "agréable" :). Went on a bit of a tangent there. Great video and food for thought, new expats and experienced ones alike. Merci !
Hi Alex, thanks for watching and for such a thoughtful comment. I'm glad our perspectives brought up some different ideas and I completely agree that choosing to move abroad is deeply personal along with the life choices that you make once there. I think it's common for people to feel like their life is on hold when they are abroad especially if they didn't choose to come (spouse's career move, for example) and had a thriving career and network in their home country. I know people where that's the case and they gave up so much and can't wait to get back to it. Then there are others who start a new life in France "for good" and figure it out along the way. I know that without my French husband's support, I wouldn't be here because everything that's hard would be 10x harder alone. But in the same breath, I moved here after getting married to him so if he didn't exist, I'm sure I'd be in the USA at this point. I could see myself staying in France for good but I'm sure I'd fall back into life pretty easily in the USA if that's the path we take one day. So I'm open to whatever. But people and places change back in our home country, so I have no idea what I'd be going back to, a point Kate brought up in the video. Anyway, it's certainly a give and take, a self-discovery process, and a challenge I wouldn't change for the world. So happy to have connected with people like you along the way. ;-)
16:33 one of the deepest, most profound thought I've heard in months if not in years. You straight up spoke to my soul! Loved the whole conversation, I wish I could have such a conversation with someone here. ❤ from a 🇨🇵 living in 🇬🇧
American living in the Brussels area of Belgium for almost 9 years, French-speaking Belgian husband. Amen to everything in this video! It is reassuring that others are going through the same things (don't get me started on the old Belgian friend groups that are impossible to fully break into) and it's ok to feel that way. I've been following Kate's channel for a while and am happy to discover yours as well!
Thanks for this very interesting video! The questions that you've raised are what hold me back against wanting to live abroad. I've spent a year in the US and I've loved it, but I think it would just seem too daunting to live far from my family and "erase" some of my Frenchness. And I'm not even a very patriot person! It's just that I love a lot about what it's like being French, and even though I love a lot of things about Americanness (or other cultures, for that matter), I don't know that I would be okay with blending into American culture. And I also wanted to say something about making friends in France: it's hard for French people too! It takes a lot of time and effort to go from "someone I work with" to "someone I hang out with outside of work". Like you said, a lot of it can be explained because we move around less and we have friends groups that go way back. And also, we are not very warm at the beginning. If any English-speaking expat live around Lorraine and wants to make friends, I'm here! :)
I think it makes a difference how old you are, and whether you can find an activity you can join in without language/nationality, etc, being a barrier. Neither my husband or myself has ever made friends easily, but we have always enjoyed singing, and being involved in local choirs has broken down barriers. Before we retired to France, we went camping every year, and my husband enjoyed playing 'petanque' with fellow campers: I played too, but it was more of a male province, and I was never much good. We also learnt the card game 'tarot' (not the fortune-telling variety), which is similar to bridge. It helps enormously that we both speak reasonable French, because, unlike the Dutch, very few French people speak much English, particularly the older ones, though they frequently understand more than they are willing to speak. It also helps that we live in a small village, where the pace of life is slow, and someone will always have your back.
Thank you girls for the video. I am a foreigner myself, that moved to US 22 years ago, and do as well have an American husband, and speak foreign language, so you and I have a few things in common in terms of living in a different country. I can relate to pretty much everything discussed in your video. One thing that was different for me was that I was missing the girls from my country. So instead of trying to make American friends, I was looking for girls from my country, and it actually helped me a lot through tough times. I do not feel like I am not being myself here though. No matter how long you live in a foreign country if you relocated as an adult, you will always be an American. Also, my hubby and I love vacationing in France, particularly in Cannes and Côté D’Azur in general, but vacationing is not living, it’s better because you enjoy the country and environment all that time, and do not encounter any difficulties, especially because pretty much everyone speaks some English there. Having an American husband really helped me adjust. I love living in America, but every country has its pluses and minuses, so traveling really helps to understand that yet allows to explore different cultures to a degree. Knowing local language helps tremendously in travel, but also takes a motivation to learn it away, since everybody knows English more or less those days. What I do really miss is that some of the jokes from my country I can’t tell here. They will just not come across well because one has to know the culture and understand environment where the joke is coming from. That’s not a big deal though. Hopefully we will keep vacationing in France after this quarantine is done. Last year we flew to London for the computer museum, then went to Mont Saint Michele and traveled in a rented car all across France down to Cannes, then flew to Naples and traveled all over Amalfi Coast. I am very glad we did it before quarantine. Stay healthy and well, and keep producing the videos about your life in France please!
Great video. Can really relate to what has been discussed. Spent 33 years in the UK and have just returned to France 2 years ago and it's been so hard ! And I'm French ! 😊 but have found it very difficult to make friends and feel at home. Good to hear about other's experiences
Good topics. The first time a coworker told a joke, I didn't realize he was joking. And when he started laughing at his own joke I thought he was being cruel.
What a wonderful chat exploring deep human feelings on being away from your home country, culture and habits. You both gave a fine definition of feeling outside of this ...
I'm in the UK, originally from Missouri, and totally relate to many of these points. This year has been difficult with the worry about family back home. You can feel isolated & reliant on your spouse at times because it's harder to make new friends. Best wishes ladies!
What you are experiencing is totally natural. I am an American citizen but I was raised bilingual in Germany. Today I am sixty years old and even though I speak both languages with equal fluency there is something like a personality-change whenever I switch languages.
My husband and I (both American) were expats in China and in the UK for a combined 10 years. We loved the lifestyle and definitely had our challenges. I would say that the reverse culture shock upon returning to the US was the worst for us. Although we've been back in the US for 7 years, I still feel like the 'other' as do my expat friends who have returned to their home countries. It seemed that we made a stronger bond with those who can relate - my friends/acquaintances here don't have those experiences and find it hard to make that connection. It's also very insular where I'm at and many folks haven't even left the state, let alone the country. I feel that reverse culture shock isn't talked about a lot. Enjoy your life experiences abroad, it was one of our highlights! Hopefully, when my kids are older, we can find another opportunity to live overseas. :) I've missed traveling so much during 2020. Happy New Year!
Loved your collaborative video! While I have not lived abroad, I can understand the challenge of making friends. I'm thinking a person would need to be pretty outgoing to push through the challenges you described. I sometimes find the issue here in the US as well, when even moving to a new city. I also like your discussion about having a written future/or not. I read a quote recently that I think you are both doing nicely - Life is a journey, enjoy the ride. Thanks for putting this out together!
I'm American so I guess this may seem like a really dumb question to you, but what would they call you instead of your 1st name? Would it be Ms.(Last name)? If so, I can't say that I've ever heard anyone here address someone that way, unless it's perhaps to a teacher at school, lol. By the way, I agree with you on being repulsed by people that talk about their sex lives or other personal issues, as that's just low class.
You hit on topics seldom explored and I am soaking up your insights and candor. I lived in Chile as a young American guy for a couple of years and have spent about half of the past eight years in Italy. I am thinking about the same issues you get into here as I try to decide whether to move there permanently. No easy answers. Thanks for making clear that we all face the same doubts and challenges, no matter who we are or where we come from, when dealing with transplanting ourselves from one culture to another.
Excellent video. This is beyond culture shock, which I have experienced in Japan, where I lived for a year. I never thought about these sorts of long-term issues. The discussion of identity was profound. I subscribed to Kate's Channel and am looking forward to watching her videos.
I speak a lot of different languages, and I found that I have a unique persona in each language. Because I do agree that my English personality didn't translate. But, I feel now that my American friends actually miss out on my French-Swiss-self, rather than thinking my French speaking friends are missing out on a part of me. It isn't a drastic departure from my English personality, but it is how I feel comfortable as my self in different languages.
I lived in France for a few years in Paris and Montpellier. Curiously, I had no problem meeting and socialising with the French - nor do I feel as though I'm losing a part of myself by living elsewhere. That might be because I've lived and worked in 11 different countries (including the US). The life style in France was great but what drove me out of the country eventually (besides the bureaucracy) was the _constant striking_ affecting: Buses, trains, fuel deliveries (fortunately I found an out of the way gas station that lasted longer than others), postal strikes, electricity arbitrarily cut off, teachers, doctors, small businesses (!)... and on and on.
I lived in France for a year & what you talked about in regards to making friends is so true. My French friends themselves said it's very hard to make friends & thought it was interesting how willing Americans are to meet & become friends with new people.
Very good collaboration !! One point which could be nice to develop : what is the definition of "friend" or what is this in your mind / culture ? I might be wrong but it seems that when an american works with someone, they are friends .. For sure it's not the same for a french person, we are colleagues only. For us, a friend is someone we can rely ALWAYS, what ever our problem could be, small or high. We can do / share more with a friend than with our own relatives. I guess that's why we have very few (1 or 2 sometimes 3) but strictly chosen ... The waves of life have brought our friends on our raft ! ^_^ 14:55 I got same problem by leaving in an another area of France far from where I grew.
As in marriage there are time cycles which makes an expat checking balance about the pros and cons of living abroad and eventually thinking of going home ,calling it a quit (divorce). I see these crucial spots at right after arrival, after 6 months, 2 years, 4 years may be after 10years+ , then much later like at retirement time. No matter what, life is always about will, compromises, tolerance and a good bit of self love (as in loving oneself enough to face the challenges) mixed to an ever lasting feeling of being warmly surprised by the surrounding . The Grass is not greener elsewhere but as long as it feels greener/ different one can say I am fine and loving it. And yes there are times when winter is coming but hey “ la pluie du matin n’arrête pas le pèlerin” and that’s the spirit to keep warm and going. I must admit that I have a problem understanding people who are stubbornly “born somewhere”.
Very interesting conversation. I can’t imagine living abroad and dealing with such a learning curve. I have a new sensitivity towards foreigners and also people living abroad. You are correct, people can have these same issues moving from state to state here in the U.S. and town to town too. I have lived in several states and several cities and each area has a different feeling and vibe. I grew up in the Midwest but, have lived mostly in south Florida for 25 years. Then I married and moved to another area of the Midwest. It’s sooo different to me now, that it’s foreign. I always feel like an outsider because people think differently here. IE: In south Florida, people are flashy, outspoken, aggressive and go getters. In the Great Plains, they detest being flashy and consider it distasteful. They prefer to keep things simpler, people are less animated and where I live, not very ambitious. They are very friendly and helpful though. My own husband does not comprehend what I am talking about as he grew up here and doesn’t see the differences. Of course this is my opinion of what I experienced and not necessarily a generalization. Once you experience other countries, cities, areas and cultures, that feeling of not fitting in, will always be there. Why? because your experiences change who you are and force you to look through a different lens. But, the other issues is .....the world is changing rapidly and not necessarily for the good. It doesn’t matter where we live now, there is a lot more stress. All a person has to do is turn on the news and their stress levels can go through the roof. I don’t recognize the USA or cities that I have lived in anymore. Even small town America has changed. Many other countries have changed overnight too. But, that is for another discussion. Thanks ladies for the food for thought.
Thanks so much for watching. It's so true that in a big country like the USA that different regions feel foreign and that we can be outsiders even within our own country. The stress is certainly real no matter where we live and I feel like it's worse in recent times. So happy you enjoyed the video!
I lived briefly in Germany in the mid-1990s. While I had more than a few frustrations, one of the things I really liked (over the US) was the lack of superficiality there, particularly in terms of day-to-day interactions. Do you find French society to be less superficial than the US?
Hello Diane, Hello Kat, I'm so happy you are both collaborating! I've been following you on UA-cam and on your blogs and I really like both your approaches ! So authentic and respectful! I'm a French serial expat currently living in Brazil but always helping expats in France! There are 2 points you are making I totally relate ! First, no to feel fully yourself when speaking in a foreign language, even when you reach an advanced level. I speak fluently several languages and I felt that I had a slightly different « me », a different personality, in every single language. This is very weird to experience… There are actually some scientific research on this topic you might find interesting. And then Kat mentions the repatriation possibility and the fear not to fit in… Well… I have never been expatriated for more than 3 consecutive years so far and every one is different, but I have moved back several times to France. And this is tough !!! REALLY hard! Harder that the initial expatriation in my opinion…The first year I felt like a foreigner in my own country and then I just got used to the it. France doesn’t really change, I did and had to readapt! Thanks again to both of you for sharing your experiences! Guillemette, alias Mademoiselle Guiga from Expat in France
Thank you for a very honest video. I have the exact same concerns you speak about and all I did was move from a small town in Canada (that feels more like a small US town) and now I live in a massive huge city Toronto. After 20 years I’m still “too friendly”, I miss family, I have to wear sophisticated colours to fit in instead of my favourite bright colours. And it’s true I can’t even go back because my old small town no longer accepts me and I find the reverse! They are unsophisticated, no comprehension of my corporate job politics, or how to put on a “mean face” to take subway and walk aggressively. I relate more to New Yorkers now than I can to old friends who live in houses with backyards and I live in 800 square feet with 2 children! Thanks again, you have made me realize I am normal to feel this way. And I’ve given up any hope of going back to a small town.
Thanks to you both with all your warmth and friendliness I feel how it would be if you two were my cute daughters. BTW - I'm just an old guy who lives alone in Oregon
You both have sometimes "le mal du pays". So... normal! I admit, as a Frenchman, that regions of France are so different - sometimes a Breton ignores how an Alsacien lives! - that I felt le-mal-du-pays in Normandy although I grew up in Champagne (only 650km from Normandy). So . The USA... Wow I understand you :)
I wonder if American extroverts have more difficulties living in Europe than American introverts. I personally found meetup to be very helpful in meeting people in the Paris region. I can really relate to wondering if I did go back to the U.S. if it would really work for me. I don't think it would work for my French partner. Getting a job equivalent to what she has now would probably be difficult for her and she would need to make sacrifices.
Connecting with other people is a very cultural item, and even if speaking the same language make it easier, it s still not easy due to the various subtleties between cultures. I am french, expat since more than 50 years. When i arrived initially in Belgium where people are known to be very welcoming, i felt very disconnected with the people there and it was not easy to join for 'real friendship' initially.
I've been in the Netherlands for 20 years and 4 years in Brussels before that. Some things never reach the level of familiarity you experience in your home country and that's to be expected. My character was formed before I left England, in that cultural atmosphere. Some people are more willing and able to totally give themselves over to the culture they emigrate to and these people probably have a more fulfilling experience. I'm less able, so there is friction and I'd feel it was a form of 'acting' as something I am not. I don't have much of a language barrier at all in either French or Dutch, though there are a few things mostly relating to expectations. Quite a lot of Dutch people (in the cities at any rate) are rude, but call it 'being direct' which I've never really accepted. Making friends is easy and I have a few long-term ones, but keeping friends is harder. It's difficult because some deep-rooted things which bring and bind people together - shared childhood experiences and general living and breathing of the culture - can lock you out. There's a bit of an imbalance in terms of you speaking French (or whatever) and other people speaking English. English is widely disseminated and we can fill in the blanks of spotty fluency because we are accustomed to hearing many varieties of spoken English. The French expect you to either sound French or you're incomprehensible. So do the Dutch and they'll remark upon it, oblivious of the fact they they're speaking English with a very rough accent. What Diane said about losing a bit of yourself is definitely true. I feel I have and because you never really become 100% a part of the place you move to you end up in a sort of no-man's land as the people in your 'old' life move on without you. It can be very unpleasant.
As a french person who has lived 4 years in Canada, and has encountered many Canadians and Americans on different occasions, I have often this feeling that it's pretty easy to start a conversation with an American: I had a lot of questions about the country I am from, etc. But, if you want to enter in a real friendship relation with someone (going out for a drink, eat at each other places, etc), then it becomes really complicated ...
Bonjour: We are trying to immigrate, have three properties, the greatest issue we have, are having, have had, is dealing with the French version of "Customer Service"' It feels as though people do not want to do business, it is as though it is a chore to provide follow-through. Builders, immobiliers, key holders, mayors, city halls, etc. Once we can move, we hope to be able to blend socially, ie, pay the bills, shop, etc.
As a U K person , came retired to France, one of the most challenging thinks has been filing impôts! (Tax) Very difficult , without help. Still struggling with it after 8 years!
It's funny because I'm an introvert person and I also feel that people don't know the entire "real me". Sometimes I have so much to say but I don't have the words to express it, exactly as if I were a foreigner ! But, contrary to expats, I have that chance of having my family and close friends here with whom I can really be me.
Hello Diane and Kate. My wife is/was French and has lived in California for the last 28 years. She's not quite treated as fully American here and no longer as really French in France. She still carries some French accent with her perfect English, and whereas few dare ask minorities where their accent is from (with imperfect English), many dare ask her about her accent and her immigration status. One current difficulty is that French won't let her in to see her (ailing) parents on her American passport, but during the pandemic the French consulate in SFO won't issue her a French passport (or visa), save for travel to a funeral (which would mean too late). As for friendships, we are more likely to form them with non-Americans here. Americans tend to want to see us at Starbucks more than at their house, to limit depth? We agree that France has better social safety nets, better health care, tastier food, better K-12 education, much cheaper university education, shorter work week, longer vacations, and better public transportation. The downsides of French living are: more smoking around you, more vehicle exhaust pollution, more speed trap cameras, and shorter store hours.
I am an American in France. Been her for 9 years. I struggle daily. I have such a large family back at home that I miss. I miss them as a recourse as well. For example my dad is a mechanic. So I did have to worry about my car. Many people whom can do house repairs and so on. I feel so alone here even though I have my husband. We are planning on moving back to the Midwest, but having a hard time as to when to do so. We never wanted to leave the US, but forced to due to at the time marriage equality did not exist in the US. We would be back already, but by the time marriage equality became legal, we had just built a new house in the French country side.
thank you ladies! i have not lived here as long as you two (just finished my 2nd year in Paris) but I can definitely relate to every single thing you both said. I am happy here but do miss my family and friends and it helped going back to nyc and california at least twice a year because it did confirm how much france is my home. now with the hold on travel it is getting hard to not feel sad about my visits but I just know one day it will be doable. One question though what are your best tips to learning the french language? i've taken classes, ugh no thank you most of the classes were either for 18-26 years old student and i'm clearing not that. or i took classes with the Criox Rouge which were excellent but only 1.5 per week and very hard to get into due to the high demand. So any tips oh I also so studies with you tube channels and Babble. Thanks again and since I came from Kates channel ive now subscribed to Oui in France too.
Hi there, thanks for watching and subscribing! I have a big blog post on all my French language learning tips that may be of interest, so have a look at everything linked and hope some of it helps: www.ouiinfrance.com/french-language-learning-tips/ I think that the secret is there is no secret aside from putting in consistent work and always trying to learn. I know that's not always easy and we go through phases of wanting to improve and then not, or plateauing and getting frustrated. Check out Alex's channel here as well. He is a French coach who really gets the mindset of a French language learner and I've found his content incredibly helpful: ua-cam.com/users/FrenchinPlainSightfeatured Also, this is a recent video on my channel about things to remember when French learning gets stressful: ua-cam.com/video/AAfS9ebZjEc/v-deo.html Thanks again for watching!
hello i m french and i have the same problem in the other way .i need to speak a little english for my job and i watch a lot of american youtubers speaking in english with the subtitel and now if i listen an american i think i understand a lot of what he says but i can t speak haha .good luck machocolat
Salam in france its really difficult to make friends because of culture Malgré on parlent français après des années de vie ici mais situation n'a toujours pas changé.
A great "clean slate" for making friends in France is going to an "assos".I'm fluently speaking french, I learned it as a child, my mother was from Belgium. I'm still the "foreigner". "You're not from here" is a sentence I hear daily. But charities are great to go beyond that, because everybody there is united for a mission, and you discover people as they discover you.
Just found your videos and can relate to so many. I've been here 4 years now but the biggest thing I've struggled with is the language. I moved here with a very basic knowledge. Although I have a French husband we always speak English together......so after 4 years of living here I would say I understand quite a bit but I'm so nervous to speak it and avoid it whenever possible. Just feel like I've become a shadow of who I really am most of the time. Any tips?
The moment you two ladies would miss France the most is if you moved back to USA. Anyone who has made a life in another country will always miss the country they aren't in right now!
I‘ve lived in Germany for so long that I have the reverse problem. So much of me is European now that I feel Americans don‘t acknowledge that part of me. And I cannexpress some ideas and feelings much better in German. It took YEARS!
3:53. . "It's an 8-hour flight from the Midwest to Paris. . . And it's expensive. . " Australians watching this. . rolling their eyes. . .. Compared to the U.S. it's 3-times the flight time. . AND 4 times the expense for the same trip.
Hey! I have a question for both/either of you. My husband and I are both vegetarian (no meat of any kind, including fish, but we do eat eggs and dairy) - I know the Vegetarian scene used to be pretty limited across France but it's been some time since I last visited - what's it like now? Are there regions that are more veg-friendly than others? How is vegetarianism perceived nowadays? We are considering coming to France for an extended stay and maybe even moving there in the next 10yrs or so. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!! 🙂
Hi there, in the past couple of years, I feel like the vegetarian options have increased tenfold and being vegetarian is more well-known and trendy, even outside of big cities like Paris. There are more and more vegetarian options in regular grocery stores like vegetarian patties/burgers, "meat," etc. and then specialty stores like Biocoop have a ton of (expensive) options. I wouldn't say vegetarian/vegan options are quite as common as in the UK or N.America but there's definitely more of a spotlight on it over the past 2-3 years. There's even an excellent vegetarian restaurant near where I live in Angers called Ronin that I've been meaning to check out.
@@OuiInFrance Thank you! That's the kind of info you can only get by speaking to people who are actually there. When I Google it, I get anything from "France is a vegetarian paradise" (doubtful) to "French people hate vegetarians and will deliberately sneak lardons into your food" (also doubtful). Thanks for the insight! Bonne journeé!
for friendship and university.... may be in Paris you can stay there and keep your childhood friends... but that's changing in the rest of France. more and more people need to move around France and Europe for studies, or job. So you cannot keep a child friend all your life. I loose them, they stay in my mind as souvenir of my childhood. that's all. The friends for your life is becoming a myth, a fantasy. That's the sad part of our modern world. I made good relations in each city i lived, but in my french criteria of real life during friendship... they aren't friends.
je vous suis toutes les deux pour travailler mon anglais .je vous trouve supers .j ai eu des amis italiens pendant longtemps à paris 1er c est trés bien d avoir des copains qui viennent du meme pays et comprennent les situations 2eme certains ont eu la nostalgie du pays et sont retourné en italie.en fait aprés un moment ils sont revenu en france .c etait trop tard ils etaient plus francais qu italiens 3 eme l amitié que ce soit plus dur aprés l ecole c est pareil je pense dans tout les pays il faut faire attention à ne pas confondre la nostalgie d un moment de sa vie avec ce qu on retrouverait vraiment si on retournait en arriére .bon courage :o) ps je deteste les français qui pourrait vous dire si tu es pas contente rentre chez toi .moi et plein d autre on est content que vous soyez ici ps 2 l administration c est vraiment l enfer pour les français aussi
Hi, about being different, feeling different - or coming across differently - when expressing oneself in another language : I've lived all my adult life using on a daily basis, while on the job or in the private time, three languages, and even my voice changes in each one . And my personality definitely is different too : I find myself to be more poised when thinking in German, for instance. (And, BTW, if I want to learn sthg complex, I'll absolutely go and look for an explanation of it in German, because I know it will be more precise, which will allow me to learn that subject matter the best possible.. And this, even if I know, understand, possess the nuances of my native tongue arguably better than German..) Voilà, c'est comme ça - 🎵la la la la la🎵 (comme diraient les Rita Mitsouko).. Cheers, take care & ☮out, jb
I don't know why this video just came up on my feed but...I'm getting married in July to an American and for the last 8 years her family has been asking me when I was moving in the US, my answer ahas always been "why would I" as much as I like visiting the US (I'mFrench- Canadian by the way) it never entered my mind to move to the US, for me it would be as much as a difference as moving to Russia specially for the last 4 years, so, she's moving to Québec, I wouldn't move to France either, love the place but being called "Ah, cousin" grate my nerves in such a bad way, everywhere I go there, Paris Bretagne Provence or Alsace, it's always the same. Maybe I'm too old, but traveling is still the best way to see the world but home will always be home.
Call to the US back in the 80's while working abroad un-accompanied: wife: Hi, Albert? [who else] Albert: Hi. I love you. wife: I love you too. Albert: How are things? wife: Good, good, nice. Albert: How is "son #1"? wife: He's fine, he got an A in math this term. He really tried hard. Albert: How is "son #2"? wife: Oh great. [sounding depressed] He flunked phys ed. Albert: How's your mom? wife: She's fine, bought a new car, Cadillac. Albert: Good, she deserves it for all the care she gives your dad. Albert: How's your dad? wife: He died. The funeral was yesterday. Albert: I'm so sorry. I wish I could be there.
I disagree, I am french and I met my group of best friends when I was an adult in France and abroad. I left Paris and I have been living in the US for 20 years. Now in a town in NH, where people and the weather are very cold! I find americans friendly and easy to talk to but it's really hard to make real friends. I try and try but I don't have a single American friend 😒. My only group of great friends are expat like me. I would love to move back to France but my American family doesn't want to or maybe when we'll retire.
The most interesting think that will happen is that it will come a day when you will not be 100% French and not 100% American. After 32 years leaving in a foreign country I feel up rooted. I do not belong to any of the places. I am in lala land! I do not belong to this country and nor to my birth country! You will be ok! 🌼
the personnality is formated by the cultural an language environnement, so its normal that yourself-in french is not the same that yourself-in american. It can't be the same, even if you were completly bilingual. So trying to be the american-speaking person in french, is a lure. they are both side of yourself, and your real ego is neither one nor the other... or a mix of both.
It is very difficult to go back home. and people do not understand. I have experienced this. And I have come to not mind it. because they stayed here and together and lived their lives and have never left. But I have left and, I don't say this to be mean, but I have become a more independent thinker, and have come to care less about what people think and more independent of their influence. So while, on the one hand, I would like to be part of their "group", their is very large part of me the really DOES NOT want to be part of their group, stuck in their closed ways of thinking, and not caring about new people, not wanting to reach out.
À mon avis, mais je suis québécoise et donc "américaine", forcément, toute cette souffrance réside dans l'écart qui vous "divorce" de votre langue maternelle. La langue maternelle est notre "âme"... Le français étant ma langue maternelle, je me retrouve chez moi en France, encore que dans une autre région de mon "pays". Mais mon "pays", c'est le français, qu'il soit celui de France ou du Québec. Cela dit, mais bien sûr qu'ils sont étranges, ces cousins de France... Oh la la! Mais de là à me sentir dans un pays "étranger", alors là, non, vraiment pas, en aucun cas!
Honestly, I love France, and love Paris but I don't want to move there forever. In my dream world, I would have an apartment and the money to go over when I wanted. I could stay for three months and then come back to the US for a few months and then pop back over. Three months at a time would enable me to travel to other parts of Europe and it would just be great. I'd take cooking classes, French classes and I would love that.
Mes chers amis appelez les choses par leur nom, vous n'êtes pas des expatriés mais des migrants ! Comme les afghans et les autres. Vous devez faire l'effort de vous intégrer et en premier lieu de parler français en second lieu de vivre comme les français. Alors vous serez heureux comme Dieu en France.
Hope you guys enjoy this discussion about some of the things we find the most difficult about living abroad in France long term. After a while, many of the things that are hardest are just about life and not France specifically. Maybe you can relate? A big thanks to Kate for this collab. Be sure to check out our video together on her channel all about insider tips for ordering at the French bakery: bit.ly/2NHQtNv
I'm a French guy, living in the US for more than 15 years now, and it's just funny how I can relate to your stories and feelings from the other side of the pond. Seems like these are stories common to many expats. Thanks for doing all these great videos by the way 😁👍!
You both Nailed it! I’m an American living in Germany ( minutes from the French boarder) married to a German husband. The home thing, breaking into the tight friendship circles, all of it! I work with Americans, in an American company. So glad it’s not just me!
...Talking about making friends...I’m French born and raised and have been living on the US west coast for a Long time. I was not an introverted person, but the familiarity of Americans really surprised me when I arrived...Asking personal questions, calling me “frenchy” or my first name, talking about their sex lives...Definitely not what I was used to!
The French are generally more introvert and puritan than Americans.
Thank you for this! Our plan is to retire in France (my husband is French). I have only been to France in two week stints and there are moments walking around where I think, "I really could live here..." and then something will happen minutes after and I will think, "I wanna go home...!"
Even though I am almost 71 years old and lived in France in the early 70's before returning to the States (to Cajun French Louisiana for 10 years, as it happens ;-) I can definitely relate to all of your comments. Most especially I can relate to the idea that we have one persona that we develop growing up in a given culture and in a given language and we start to develop a different persona in a different language if we truly immerse ourselves in that new environment (which I did, avoiding the Americans like the plague and even dressing like a French guy with the advantage that I have a strong talent for foreign languages and had a near perfect French accent, which definitely helps you integrate into French society).
The most telling moment I had about these different personas that you develop came one day when I was in Aix-en-Provence on the Cours Mirabeau and saw two Frenchmen having an argument. I was able to follow most of what they were saying (although people yelling is always harder to understand in a foreign language) and then at some point I had this weird experience of having two different reactions to what was going on, one from my original American self and one from my newly formed and growing French self. What was even weirder is that I found myself located in this space in between those two reactions and was consciously aware that I had both options available and I could freely choose which persona to merge into. It made me think of the Zen Buddhist notion of enlightenment where you realize you are a higher self that does not need to be bound to earthly, transitory and temporal reality.
Well, it was the closest I ever came to "satori" (enlightenment) and it really blew my mind. But I also new I could not function on a practical plane in that state, so I had to choose to merge into one of those two personas.
It turns out I chose the American persona, probably just because it was easier and more familiar. I always wonder to this day how I would have evolved differently had I chosen to merge into my French persona.
L'on ne sait jamais. La vie est toujours pleine de surprises, et des bonnes et des mauvaises!
I grew up abroad as an American expat. I did not feel like I fit in when I came back home. One reason I have chosen to live in cities like NYC, Washington, DC, and Oakland during my professional life us because I often felt like an outsider in my home states in the South (often because of my non-Southern accent)--even among family members. The good thing about large urban areas here is that you can have greater access to international airports, community with others who love to travel/have lived globally, and to cultural spaces/restaurants you can visit when you feel nostalgic.
Thanks for having me Diane! Really fun to film even if we are chatting about some of the harder parts of living abroad!
Was awesome to have a chat in this format. Thanks so much for being open to it!
So helpful. Thanks for your contribution.
I really appreciate what you’ve shared. Particularly about where to settle your family in the future, the uncertainties that come with the possibilities (esp. the bad ones) bring much anxiety to expats. In the end we never really know until we actually take that step, but we can only prepare to the best of our abilities and then leave everything to fate once we’ve done our part. But hopefully our family remains intact and in good shape regardless of the experience. Thank you for opening up! 💕
I know I will never live in France but I find these conversations very interesting. As Diane put it the issues are "real" as in real life, everyday issues that everyone encounters! I am happy you and Kate found each other. It must be so helpful to have another American to discuss issues and day to day life with!
What a great chat. You bring up some great points about language that most people don't factor into the equation when they imagine living in another country. It always looks easier on paper and in your mind but then actually doing it is another thing. It's real-life fraught with real problems. Going to check out unintentionally Frenchified video now.
Thx so much for watching, Annie!
Fascinating video, thank you for such an interesting topic. I’m an American living in Sydney, Australia, and while there is rarely a language barrier I relate to a lot of the things you discussed.
Lol really? My mom is in SC and I visit often - I’m at home in either country - including France xx I’m in Sydney
I can totally relate to the health issues and the relationship issues. I've had to learn how to be super direct with my French boyfriend, far more than I ever would have been with an American boyfriend. For the health issues, you have to learn how to describe your symptoms, all kinds of medical vocabulary (thank goodness for the internet now because that makes it so much easier), and even just navigating how a different health care system works. Even just the etiquette of "Where do I wait? How do I greet the doctor? What should I expect? Where and when do I pay?" Those things would be annoyances normally, but having it be added on to a health issue that you're already really anxious about just elevates the stress level that much more.
I can also relate soooo much to not feeling 100% like myself in French. There's a side of me my boyfriend (and everyone else) will probably never totally get because I don't know how to be that person in French and he doesn't totally get it when I'm like that in English. Gosh I know I've had so many awkward moments with his friends....where I'm trying to make a joke like I normally would and there are just crickets chirping in response. It's like "yikes, well that one didn't go over. Let's move on."
Great video both. Thank you for talking about these aspects of life here in France. I enjoyed hearing about all the different profiles of expats. I think people unconsciously develop an avatar of what life in France looks like for them, and it never hurts to be reminded that everyone's situation is different. That it's ok to be on your specific path with all its ups and downs. I'd take that any day over forever wondering what if...
Regarding your point about possibly losing a core part of yourself the longer you stay away from your country of origine (choosing not to say "home" because home is wherever you feel it is), I think this one is best decided per person because me personally, I moved because I was lost and didn't feel at all fulfilled back in the UK. So when I go back to the UK, I can never imagine living there again because this French chapter of my life has taught me so much about myself and I've blossomed. It's changed completely how I see the UK. London at least, where I grew up. It's extremely subjective and personal.
This has lead me to start entertaining the notion that one could feel like their life is sort of "on hold" during their time in France. Maybe you weren't suggesting that at all but it's sent my thoughts down an interesting path. And I think that's a terrible shame if that happens a lot. I'm not sure.
I think there'll always be stuff we'll miss out on that are happening in the lives of our loved ones back in our previous country (or city even!) but we have to do what's right for us and can't be in 2 places at once. In order to be happy we need to be happy with our present and our network in our current home. As long as that is the case, living abroad is much more "agréable" :).
Went on a bit of a tangent there.
Great video and food for thought, new expats and experienced ones alike.
Merci !
Hi Alex, thanks for watching and for such a thoughtful comment. I'm glad our perspectives brought up some different ideas and I completely agree that choosing to move abroad is deeply personal along with the life choices that you make once there.
I think it's common for people to feel like their life is on hold when they are abroad especially if they didn't choose to come (spouse's career move, for example) and had a thriving career and network in their home country. I know people where that's the case and they gave up so much and can't wait to get back to it. Then there are others who start a new life in France "for good" and figure it out along the way.
I know that without my French husband's support, I wouldn't be here because everything that's hard would be 10x harder alone. But in the same breath, I moved here after getting married to him so if he didn't exist, I'm sure I'd be in the USA at this point. I could see myself staying in France for good but I'm sure I'd fall back into life pretty easily in the USA if that's the path we take one day. So I'm open to whatever. But people and places change back in our home country, so I have no idea what I'd be going back to, a point Kate brought up in the video.
Anyway, it's certainly a give and take, a self-discovery process, and a challenge I wouldn't change for the world. So happy to have connected with people like you along the way. ;-)
16:33 one of the deepest, most profound thought I've heard in months if not in years. You straight up spoke to my soul! Loved the whole conversation, I wish I could have such a conversation with someone here. ❤ from a 🇨🇵 living in 🇬🇧
American living in the Brussels area of Belgium for almost 9 years, French-speaking Belgian husband. Amen to everything in this video! It is reassuring that others are going through the same things (don't get me started on the old Belgian friend groups that are impossible to fully break into) and it's ok to feel that way. I've been following Kate's channel for a while and am happy to discover yours as well!
Thanks for this very interesting video! The questions that you've raised are what hold me back against wanting to live abroad. I've spent a year in the US and I've loved it, but I think it would just seem too daunting to live far from my family and "erase" some of my Frenchness. And I'm not even a very patriot person! It's just that I love a lot about what it's like being French, and even though I love a lot of things about Americanness (or other cultures, for that matter), I don't know that I would be okay with blending into American culture.
And I also wanted to say something about making friends in France: it's hard for French people too! It takes a lot of time and effort to go from "someone I work with" to "someone I hang out with outside of work". Like you said, a lot of it can be explained because we move around less and we have friends groups that go way back. And also, we are not very warm at the beginning.
If any English-speaking expat live around Lorraine and wants to make friends, I'm here! :)
I think it makes a difference how old you are, and whether you can find an activity you can join in without language/nationality, etc, being a barrier. Neither my husband or myself has ever made friends easily, but we have always enjoyed singing, and being involved in local choirs has broken down barriers. Before we retired to France, we went camping every year, and my husband enjoyed playing 'petanque' with fellow campers: I played too, but it was more of a male province, and I was never much good. We also learnt the card game 'tarot' (not the fortune-telling variety), which is similar to bridge. It helps enormously that we both speak reasonable French, because, unlike the Dutch, very few French people speak much English, particularly the older ones, though they frequently understand more than they are willing to speak. It also helps that we live in a small village, where the pace of life is slow, and someone will always have your back.
Thank you girls for the video. I am a foreigner myself, that moved to US 22 years ago, and do as well have an American husband, and speak foreign language, so you and I have a few things in common in terms of living in a different country. I can relate to pretty much everything discussed in your video. One thing that was different for me was that I was missing the girls from my country. So instead of trying to make American friends, I was looking for girls from my country, and it actually helped me a lot through tough times. I do not feel like I am not being myself here though. No matter how long you live in a foreign country if you relocated as an adult, you will always be an American. Also, my hubby and I love vacationing in France, particularly in Cannes and Côté D’Azur in general, but vacationing is not living, it’s better because you enjoy the country and environment all that time, and do not encounter any difficulties, especially because pretty much everyone speaks some English there. Having an American husband really helped me adjust. I love living in America, but every country has its pluses and minuses, so traveling really helps to understand that yet allows to explore different cultures to a degree. Knowing local language helps tremendously in travel, but also takes a motivation to learn it away, since everybody knows English more or less those days. What I do really miss is that some of the jokes from my country I can’t tell here. They will just not come across well because one has to know the culture and understand environment where the joke is coming from. That’s not a big deal though. Hopefully we will keep vacationing in France after this quarantine is done. Last year we flew to London for the computer museum, then went to Mont Saint Michele and traveled in a rented car all across France down to Cannes, then flew to Naples and traveled all over Amalfi Coast. I am very glad we did it before quarantine. Stay healthy and well, and keep producing the videos about your life in France please!
Great video. Can really relate to what has been discussed. Spent 33 years in the UK and have just returned to France 2 years ago and it's been so hard ! And I'm French ! 😊 but have found it very difficult to make friends and feel at home. Good to hear about other's experiences
Good topics. The first time a coworker told a joke, I didn't realize he was joking. And when he started laughing at his own joke I thought he was being cruel.
What a wonderful chat exploring deep human feelings on being away from your home country, culture and habits. You both gave a fine definition of feeling outside of this ...
I'm in the UK, originally from Missouri, and totally relate to many of these points. This year has been difficult with the worry about family back home. You can feel isolated & reliant on your spouse at times because it's harder to make new friends. Best wishes ladies!
What you are experiencing is totally natural. I am an American citizen but I was raised bilingual in Germany. Today I am sixty years old and even though I speak both languages with equal fluency there is something like a personality-change whenever I switch languages.
My husband and I (both American) were expats in China and in the UK for a combined 10 years. We loved the lifestyle and definitely had our challenges. I would say that the reverse culture shock upon returning to the US was the worst for us. Although we've been back in the US for 7 years, I still feel like the 'other' as do my expat friends who have returned to their home countries. It seemed that we made a stronger bond with those who can relate - my friends/acquaintances here don't have those experiences and find it hard to make that connection. It's also very insular where I'm at and many folks haven't even left the state, let alone the country. I feel that reverse culture shock isn't talked about a lot. Enjoy your life experiences abroad, it was one of our highlights! Hopefully, when my kids are older, we can find another opportunity to live overseas. :) I've missed traveling so much during 2020. Happy New Year!
Loved your collaborative video! While I have not lived abroad, I can understand the challenge of making friends. I'm thinking a person would need to be pretty outgoing to push through the challenges you described. I sometimes find the issue here in the US as well, when even moving to a new city. I also like your discussion about having a written future/or not. I read a quote recently that I think you are both doing nicely - Life is a journey, enjoy the ride. Thanks for putting this out together!
I'm American so I guess this may seem like a really dumb question to you, but what would they call you instead of your 1st name? Would it be Ms.(Last name)? If so, I can't say that I've ever heard anyone here address someone that way, unless it's perhaps to a teacher at school, lol. By the way, I agree with you on being repulsed by people that talk about their sex lives or other personal issues, as that's just low class.
You hit on topics seldom explored and I am soaking up your insights and candor. I lived in Chile as a young American guy for a couple of years and have spent about half of the past eight years in Italy. I am thinking about the same issues you get into here as I try to decide whether to move there permanently. No easy answers. Thanks for making clear that we all face the same doubts and challenges, no matter who we are or where we come from, when dealing with transplanting ourselves from one culture to another.
Excellent video. This is beyond culture shock, which I have experienced in Japan, where I lived for a year. I never thought about these sorts of long-term issues. The discussion of identity was profound. I subscribed to Kate's Channel and am looking forward to watching her videos.
I lived in France for around 2 and a 1/2 months and I got very homesick but I did love it and I did learn to speak French there
I speak a lot of different languages, and I found that I have a unique persona in each language. Because I do agree that my English personality didn't translate. But, I feel now that my American friends actually miss out on my French-Swiss-self, rather than thinking my French speaking friends are missing out on a part of me. It isn't a drastic departure from my English personality, but it is how I feel comfortable as my self in different languages.
I lived in France for a few years in Paris and Montpellier. Curiously, I had no problem meeting and socialising with the French - nor do I feel as though I'm losing a part of myself by living elsewhere. That might be because I've lived and worked in 11 different countries (including the US). The life style in France was great but what drove me out of the country eventually (besides the bureaucracy) was the _constant striking_ affecting: Buses, trains, fuel deliveries (fortunately I found an out of the way gas station that lasted longer than others), postal strikes, electricity arbitrarily cut off, teachers, doctors, small businesses (!)... and on and on.
Super helpful analysis Diane. Thanks so much for working through these observations for us.
I lived in France for a year & what you talked about in regards to making friends is so true. My French friends themselves said it's very hard to make friends & thought it was interesting how willing Americans are to meet & become friends with new people.
Great video ladies xx really gets to the heart of it - it’s so hard in a second language to be ‘you’ xx ‘authenticity’ is a little hard.... in French
Very good collaboration !!
One point which could be nice to develop : what is the definition of "friend" or what is this in your mind / culture ? I might be wrong but it seems that when an american works with someone, they are friends .. For sure it's not the same for a french person, we are colleagues only. For us, a friend is someone we can rely ALWAYS, what ever our problem could be, small or high. We can do / share more with a friend than with our own relatives. I guess that's why we have very few (1 or 2 sometimes 3) but strictly chosen ... The waves of life have brought our friends on our raft ! ^_^
14:55 I got same problem by leaving in an another area of France far from where I grew.
As in marriage there are time cycles which makes an expat checking balance about the pros and cons of living abroad and eventually thinking of going home ,calling it a quit (divorce). I see these crucial spots at right after arrival, after 6 months, 2 years, 4 years may be after 10years+ , then much later like at retirement time.
No matter what, life is always about will, compromises, tolerance and a good bit of self love (as in loving oneself enough to face the challenges) mixed to an ever lasting feeling of being warmly surprised by the surrounding . The Grass is not greener elsewhere but as long as it feels greener/ different one can say I am fine and loving it. And yes there are times when winter is coming but hey “ la pluie du matin n’arrête pas le pèlerin” and that’s the spirit to keep warm and going. I must admit that I have a problem understanding people who are stubbornly “born somewhere”.
Very interesting conversation. I can’t imagine living abroad and dealing with such a learning curve. I have a new sensitivity towards foreigners and also people living abroad. You are correct, people can have these same issues moving from state to state here in the U.S. and town to town too. I have lived in several states and several cities and each area has a different feeling and vibe. I grew up in the Midwest but, have lived mostly in south Florida for 25 years. Then I married and moved to another area of the Midwest. It’s sooo different to me now, that it’s foreign. I always feel like an outsider because people think differently here. IE: In south Florida, people are flashy, outspoken, aggressive and go getters. In the Great Plains, they detest being flashy and consider it distasteful. They prefer to keep things simpler, people are less animated and where I live, not very ambitious. They are very friendly and helpful though. My own husband does not comprehend what I am talking about as he grew up here and doesn’t see the differences. Of course this is my opinion of what I experienced and not necessarily a generalization. Once you experience other countries, cities, areas and cultures, that feeling of not fitting in, will always be there. Why? because your experiences change who you are and force you to look through a different lens. But, the other issues is .....the world is changing rapidly and not necessarily for the good. It doesn’t matter where we live now, there is a lot more stress. All a person has to do is turn on the news and their stress levels can go through the roof. I don’t recognize the USA or cities that I have lived in anymore. Even small town America has changed. Many other countries have changed overnight too. But, that is for another discussion. Thanks ladies for the food for thought.
Thanks so much for watching. It's so true that in a big country like the USA that different regions feel foreign and that we can be outsiders even within our own country. The stress is certainly real no matter where we live and I feel like it's worse in recent times. So happy you enjoyed the video!
I lived briefly in Germany in the mid-1990s. While I had more than a few frustrations, one of the things I really liked (over the US) was the lack of superficiality there, particularly in terms of day-to-day interactions. Do you find French society to be less superficial than the US?
Not that much. They are both introvert and more superficial than say the Germans.The French are a weird lot.
Hello Diane, Hello Kat,
I'm so happy you are both collaborating! I've been following you on UA-cam and on your blogs and I really like both your approaches ! So authentic and respectful!
I'm a French serial expat currently living in Brazil but always helping expats in France!
There are 2 points you are making I totally relate !
First, no to feel fully yourself when speaking in a foreign language, even when you reach an advanced level. I speak fluently several languages and I felt that I had a slightly different « me », a different personality, in every single language. This is very weird to experience… There are actually some scientific research on this topic you might find interesting.
And then Kat mentions the repatriation possibility and the fear not to fit in… Well… I have never been expatriated for more than 3 consecutive years so far and every one is different, but I have moved back several times to France. And this is tough !!! REALLY hard! Harder that the initial expatriation in my opinion…The first year I felt like a foreigner in my own country and then I just got used to the it. France doesn’t really change, I did and had to readapt!
Thanks again to both of you for sharing your experiences!
Guillemette, alias Mademoiselle Guiga from Expat in France
Thank you for a very honest video. I have the exact same concerns you speak about and all I did was move from a small town in Canada (that feels more like a small US town) and now I live in a massive huge city Toronto. After 20 years I’m still “too friendly”, I miss family, I have to wear sophisticated colours to fit in instead of my favourite bright colours. And it’s true I can’t even go back because my old small town no longer accepts me and I find the reverse! They are unsophisticated, no comprehension of my corporate job politics, or how to put on a “mean face” to take subway and walk aggressively. I relate more to New Yorkers now than I can to old friends who live in houses with backyards and I live in 800 square feet with 2 children! Thanks again, you have made me realize I am normal to feel this way. And I’ve given up any hope of going back to a small town.
Love your videos Diane. Than you.
Great video and convo! I’ve been living in Paris for the past two years and can relate to what your saying!!
Thanks to you both with all your warmth and friendliness I feel how it would be if you two were my cute daughters. BTW - I'm just an old guy who lives alone in Oregon
You both have sometimes "le mal du pays". So... normal!
I admit, as a Frenchman, that regions of France are so different - sometimes a Breton ignores how an Alsacien lives! - that I felt le-mal-du-pays in Normandy although I grew up in Champagne (only 650km from Normandy).
So . The USA... Wow I understand you :)
I wonder if American extroverts have more difficulties living in Europe than American introverts. I personally found meetup to be very helpful in meeting people in the Paris region. I can really relate to wondering if I did go back to the U.S. if it would really work for me. I don't think it would work for my French partner. Getting a job equivalent to what she has now would probably be difficult for her and she would need to make sacrifices.
Connecting with other people is a very cultural item, and even if speaking the same language make it easier, it s still not easy due to the various subtleties between cultures. I am french, expat since more than 50 years. When i arrived initially in Belgium where people are known to be very welcoming, i felt very disconnected with the people there and it was not easy to join for 'real friendship' initially.
I've been in the Netherlands for 20 years and 4 years in Brussels before that. Some things never reach the level of familiarity you experience in your home country and that's to be expected. My character was formed before I left England, in that cultural atmosphere. Some people are more willing and able to totally give themselves over to the culture they emigrate to and these people probably have a more fulfilling experience. I'm less able, so there is friction and I'd feel it was a form of 'acting' as something I am not. I don't have much of a language barrier at all in either French or Dutch, though there are a few things mostly relating to expectations. Quite a lot of Dutch people (in the cities at any rate) are rude, but call it 'being direct' which I've never really accepted. Making friends is easy and I have a few long-term ones, but keeping friends is harder. It's difficult because some deep-rooted things which bring and bind people together - shared childhood experiences and general living and breathing of the culture - can lock you out.
There's a bit of an imbalance in terms of you speaking French (or whatever) and other people speaking English. English is widely disseminated and we can fill in the blanks of spotty fluency because we are accustomed to hearing many varieties of spoken English. The French expect you to either sound French or you're incomprehensible. So do the Dutch and they'll remark upon it, oblivious of the fact they they're speaking English with a very rough accent.
What Diane said about losing a bit of yourself is definitely true. I feel I have and because you never really become 100% a part of the place you move to you end up in a sort of no-man's land as the people in your 'old' life move on without you. It can be very unpleasant.
As a french person who has lived 4 years in Canada, and has encountered many Canadians and Americans on different occasions, I have often this feeling that it's pretty easy to start a conversation with an American: I had a lot of questions about the country I am from, etc. But, if you want to enter in a real friendship relation with someone (going out for a drink, eat at each other places, etc), then it becomes really complicated ...
Bonjour: We are trying to immigrate, have three properties, the greatest issue we have, are having, have had, is dealing with the French version of "Customer Service"' It feels as though people do not want to do business, it is as though it is a chore to provide follow-through. Builders, immobiliers, key holders, mayors, city halls, etc. Once we can move, we hope to be able to blend socially, ie, pay the bills, shop, etc.
As a U K person , came retired to France, one of the most challenging thinks has been filing impôts! (Tax)
Very difficult , without help.
Still struggling with it after 8 years!
The good thing is that the office of public finance will help for free. I surprised how friendly and helpful they were when I had questions!
It's funny because I'm an introvert person and I also feel that people don't know the entire "real me". Sometimes I have so much to say but I don't have the words to express it, exactly as if I were a foreigner ! But, contrary to expats, I have that chance of having my family and close friends here with whom I can really be me.
Hello Diane and Kate. My wife is/was French and has lived in California for the last 28 years. She's not quite treated as fully American here and no longer as really French in France. She still carries some French accent with her perfect English, and whereas few dare ask minorities where their accent is from (with imperfect English), many dare ask her about her accent and her immigration status. One current difficulty is that French won't let her in to see her (ailing) parents on her American passport, but during the pandemic the French consulate in SFO won't issue her a French passport (or visa), save for travel to a funeral (which would mean too late). As for friendships, we are more likely to form them with non-Americans here. Americans tend to want to see us at Starbucks more than at their house, to limit depth? We agree that France has better social safety nets, better health care, tastier food, better K-12 education, much cheaper university education, shorter work week, longer vacations, and better public transportation. The downsides of French living are: more smoking around you, more vehicle exhaust pollution, more speed trap cameras, and shorter store hours.
Nice collab, ladies!
Thanks for this episode. ♥️
EXCELLENT! Everything is right on point except thinking about going back into the US health care system!
I am an American in France. Been her for 9 years. I struggle daily. I have such a large family back at home that I miss. I miss them as a recourse as well. For example my dad is a mechanic. So I did have to worry about my car. Many people whom can do house repairs and so on. I feel so alone here even though I have my husband. We are planning on moving back to the Midwest, but having a hard time as to when to do so. We never wanted to leave the US, but forced to due to at the time marriage equality did not exist in the US. We would be back already, but by the time marriage equality became legal, we had just built a new house in the French country side.
I am an American ex-pat, and I would take ALL these challenges gladly over returning to life in the US.
As Thomas Wolfe said, You Can’t Go Home Again.
On moving back: how about moving back to a different part of US, where the variable of slipping back into your old lives wouldn't come into play?
thank you ladies! i have not lived here as long as you two (just finished my 2nd year in Paris) but I can definitely relate to every single thing you both said. I am happy here but do miss my family and friends and it helped going back to nyc and california at least twice a year because it did confirm how much france is my home. now with the hold on travel it is getting hard to not feel sad about my visits but I just know one day it will be doable. One question though what are your best tips to learning the french language? i've taken classes, ugh no thank you most of the classes were either for 18-26 years old student and i'm clearing not that. or i took classes with the Criox Rouge which were excellent but only 1.5 per week and very hard to get into due to the high demand. So any tips oh I also so studies with you tube channels and Babble. Thanks again and since I came from Kates channel ive now subscribed to Oui in France too.
Hi there, thanks for watching and subscribing! I have a big blog post on all my French language learning tips that may be of interest, so have a look at everything linked and hope some of it helps: www.ouiinfrance.com/french-language-learning-tips/
I think that the secret is there is no secret aside from putting in consistent work and always trying to learn. I know that's not always easy and we go through phases of wanting to improve and then not, or plateauing and getting frustrated. Check out Alex's channel here as well. He is a French coach who really gets the mindset of a French language learner and I've found his content incredibly helpful: ua-cam.com/users/FrenchinPlainSightfeatured
Also, this is a recent video on my channel about things to remember when French learning gets stressful: ua-cam.com/video/AAfS9ebZjEc/v-deo.html
Thanks again for watching!
hello i m french and i have the same problem in the other way .i need to speak a little english for my job and i watch a lot of american youtubers speaking in english with the subtitel and now if i listen an american i think i understand a lot of what he says but i can t speak haha .good luck machocolat
But all this , is every where in the planet! No matter where! Greetings from Dubai.
Salam
in france its really difficult to make friends because of culture
Malgré on parlent français après des années de vie ici mais situation n'a toujours pas changé.
A great "clean slate" for making friends in France is going to an "assos".I'm fluently speaking french, I learned it as a child, my mother was from Belgium. I'm still the "foreigner". "You're not from here" is a sentence I hear daily. But charities are great to go beyond that, because everybody there is united for a mission, and you discover people as they discover you.
Just found your videos and can relate to so many. I've been here 4 years now but the biggest thing I've struggled with is the language. I moved here with a very basic knowledge. Although I have a French husband we always speak English together......so after 4 years of living here I would say I understand quite a bit but I'm so nervous to speak it and avoid it whenever possible. Just feel like I've become a shadow of who I really am most of the time. Any tips?
The moment you two ladies would miss France the most is if you moved back to USA. Anyone who has made a life in another country will always miss the country they aren't in right now!
I‘ve lived in Germany for so long that I have the reverse problem. So much of me is European now that I feel Americans don‘t acknowledge that part of me. And I cannexpress some ideas and feelings much better in German. It took YEARS!
3:53. . "It's an 8-hour flight from the Midwest to Paris. . . And it's expensive. . "
Australians watching this. . rolling their eyes. . .. Compared to the U.S. it's 3-times the flight time. . AND 4 times the expense for the same trip.
Hey! I have a question for both/either of you. My husband and I are both vegetarian (no meat of any kind, including fish, but we do eat eggs and dairy) - I know the Vegetarian scene used to be pretty limited across France but it's been some time since I last visited - what's it like now? Are there regions that are more veg-friendly than others? How is vegetarianism perceived nowadays? We are considering coming to France for an extended stay and maybe even moving there in the next 10yrs or so. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!! 🙂
I should add, we are Canadian and I do speak French.
Hi there, in the past couple of years, I feel like the vegetarian options have increased tenfold and being vegetarian is more well-known and trendy, even outside of big cities like Paris. There are more and more vegetarian options in regular grocery stores like vegetarian patties/burgers, "meat," etc. and then specialty stores like Biocoop have a ton of (expensive) options. I wouldn't say vegetarian/vegan options are quite as common as in the UK or N.America but there's definitely more of a spotlight on it over the past 2-3 years. There's even an excellent vegetarian restaurant near where I live in Angers called Ronin that I've been meaning to check out.
@@OuiInFrance Thank you! That's the kind of info you can only get by speaking to people who are actually there. When I Google it, I get anything from "France is a vegetarian paradise" (doubtful) to "French people hate vegetarians and will deliberately sneak lardons into your food" (also doubtful). Thanks for the insight! Bonne journeé!
for friendship and university.... may be in Paris you can stay there and keep your childhood friends... but that's changing in the rest of France. more and more people need to move around France and Europe for studies, or job. So you cannot keep a child friend all your life. I loose them, they stay in my mind as souvenir of my childhood. that's all. The friends for your life is becoming a myth, a fantasy. That's the sad part of our modern world. I made good relations in each city i lived, but in my french criteria of real life during friendship... they aren't friends.
je vous suis toutes les deux pour travailler mon anglais .je vous trouve supers .j ai eu des amis italiens pendant longtemps à paris 1er c est trés bien d avoir des copains qui viennent du meme pays et comprennent les situations 2eme certains ont eu la nostalgie du pays et sont retourné en italie.en fait aprés un moment ils sont revenu en france .c etait trop tard ils etaient plus francais qu italiens 3 eme l amitié que ce soit plus dur aprés l ecole c est pareil je pense dans tout les pays il faut faire attention à ne pas confondre la nostalgie d un moment de sa vie avec ce qu on retrouverait vraiment si on retournait en arriére .bon courage :o) ps je deteste les français qui pourrait vous dire si tu es pas contente rentre chez toi .moi et plein d autre on est content que vous soyez ici ps 2 l administration c est vraiment l enfer pour les français aussi
Hi, about being different, feeling different - or coming across differently - when expressing oneself in another language : I've lived all my adult life using on a daily basis, while on the job or in the private time, three languages, and even my voice changes in each one . And my personality definitely is different too : I find myself to be more poised when thinking in German, for instance. (And, BTW, if I want to learn sthg complex, I'll absolutely go and look for an explanation of it in German, because I know it will be more precise, which will allow me to learn that subject matter the best possible.. And this, even if I know, understand, possess the nuances of my native tongue arguably better than German..) Voilà, c'est comme ça - 🎵la la la la la🎵 (comme diraient les Rita Mitsouko)..
Cheers, take care & ☮out, jb
I don't know why this video just came up on my feed but...I'm getting married in July to an American and for the last 8 years her family has been asking me when I was moving in the US, my answer ahas always been "why would I" as much as I like visiting the US (I'mFrench- Canadian by the way) it never entered my mind to move to the US, for me it would be as much as a difference as moving to Russia specially for the last 4 years, so, she's moving to Québec, I wouldn't move to France either, love the place but being called "Ah, cousin" grate my nerves in such a bad way, everywhere I go there, Paris Bretagne Provence or Alsace, it's always the same. Maybe I'm too old, but traveling is still the best way to see the world but home will always be home.
You can be perfectly bilingual, and you will still come across as a different person in different languages. It's part of how languages work.
Call to the US back in the 80's while working abroad un-accompanied:
wife: Hi, Albert? [who else]
Albert: Hi. I love you.
wife: I love you too.
Albert: How are things?
wife: Good, good, nice.
Albert: How is "son #1"?
wife: He's fine, he got an A in math this term. He really tried hard.
Albert: How is "son #2"?
wife: Oh great. [sounding depressed] He flunked phys ed.
Albert: How's your mom?
wife: She's fine, bought a new car, Cadillac.
Albert: Good, she deserves it for all the care she gives your dad.
Albert: How's your dad?
wife: He died. The funeral was yesterday.
Albert: I'm so sorry. I wish I could be there.
I disagree, I am french and I met my group of best friends when I was an adult in France and abroad. I left Paris and I have been living in the US for 20 years. Now in a town in NH, where people and the weather are very cold! I find americans friendly and easy to talk to but it's really hard to make real friends. I try and try but I don't have a single American friend 😒. My only group of great friends are expat like me. I would love to move back to France but my American family doesn't want to or maybe when we'll retire.
Sorry you're having a hard time. ;-( It's not always easy to make friends no matter where we live.
Je pense que Diana devrait vivre dans une ville française au bord de la mer ... je pense que c'est ça qui vous manque par rapport à New-York
I think that you are who you are. Maybe the family is more intuitive toward you than you think. Also your spouse lets them know how you really are.
The most interesting think that will happen is that it will come a day when you will not be 100% French and not 100% American. After 32 years leaving in a foreign country I feel up rooted. I do not belong to any of the places. I am in lala land! I do not belong to this country and nor to my birth country! You will be ok! 🌼
the personnality is formated by the cultural an language environnement, so its normal that yourself-in french is not the same that yourself-in american. It can't be the same, even if you were completly bilingual. So trying to be the american-speaking person in french, is a lure. they are both side of yourself, and your real ego is neither one nor the other... or a mix of both.
It is very difficult to go back home. and people do not understand. I have experienced this. And I have come to not mind it. because they stayed here and together and lived their lives and have never left. But I have left and, I don't say this to be mean, but I have become a more independent thinker, and have come to care less about what people think and more independent of their influence. So while, on the one hand, I would like to be part of their "group", their is very large part of me the really DOES NOT want to be part of their group, stuck in their closed ways of thinking, and not caring about new people, not wanting to reach out.
À mon avis, mais je suis québécoise et donc "américaine", forcément, toute cette souffrance réside dans l'écart qui vous "divorce" de votre langue maternelle. La langue maternelle est notre "âme"... Le français étant ma langue maternelle, je me retrouve chez moi en France, encore que dans une autre région de mon "pays". Mais mon "pays", c'est le français, qu'il soit celui de France ou du Québec. Cela dit, mais bien sûr qu'ils sont étranges, ces cousins de France... Oh la la! Mais de là à me sentir dans un pays "étranger", alors là, non, vraiment pas, en aucun cas!
Quack quack.
I think if you went back to the US you would be horrified to have to cope with the for-profit medical system.
Honestly, I love France, and love Paris but I don't want to move there forever. In my dream world, I would have an apartment and the money to go over when I wanted. I could stay for three months and then come back to the US for a few months and then pop back over. Three months at a time would enable me to travel to other parts of Europe and it would just be great.
I'd take cooking classes, French classes and I would love that.
French-American or American-French?
Why not fly to ireland and fly to France from ireland.
I never try french at all why would I
Mes chers amis appelez les choses par leur nom, vous n'êtes pas des expatriés mais des migrants !
Comme les afghans et les autres.
Vous devez faire l'effort de vous intégrer et en premier lieu de parler français en second lieu de vivre comme les français.
Alors vous serez heureux comme Dieu en France.
Is there any room in your head do you not stop thinking