Fuck I used to live opening with Inno-quality before 1.30. Hit insane innovativeness by the time you're done with both groups since I wouldn't ever pick either of those first and a very solid +20% inf ability
Truly, the meta is starting as a North American Native, taking Indigenous, becoming a Horde, becoming a republic and then spamming as many troops as humanly possible
the "if you're defending, you're losing" line is true in most contexts, but, siege races exist. winning siege races more often isn't useless. then he goes and glosses over siege ability, as though that's not 95% of the game. oof.
"If you're defending you're losing" is not true at all in EU4, and that's one of the few games where this is the case. It is absolutely viable to sit out opponents, especially if you have high attrition provinces as well.
18:00 I'd like to add that for maneuver pips, supply limit and reinforce speed are positively affected for each pip you have. At least that's how I understand maneuver.
Land leader maneuver from Defensive also reduce attrition taken. So a 6 pip maneuver should significantly reduce attrition in sieges. As attrition contribute to most losses, at least in my games, as i have to stack enough troops on that hill or mountain to deter attacks from the AI, its a good thing. Highlight is clearly the 15% morale.
you can park your troops on the province next to the sieged province and 9 times out of 10 the AI will see them and be just as deterred. If they start to move in, you move in as well and theyll instantly stop for a little while. If you have enough, you can also let them lock their movement and take a good outnumbering fight with a reinforce meme
@@australiananarchist480 Yes i hear you, and i do the two stack party. If you siege a level 8 fort with 20k you get like 3+% attrition, that is in 12 months a loss of 7200. And if 100k stacks run around you you need to park far more than 20k on that fort. Beside the other 150k near to deter any attack wich means they stand in attrition as well. In MP you can see the results, 1 million + in one siege. The losses are staggering, 50,000 a month just through attrition. just take a look at the ledger and you may find out that your total losses in a campaign are easy 2/3 due to attrition.
@@australiananarchist480 You can yes, emphasis on can. At the same time keeping the stack together is sometimes the only reason AI doesnt jump on army and ruins your siege.
20:55 Mercenary cost means nothing, the real kicker is Merc maintenance, merc cost only applies when you're first hiring the company, most of what you'll be paying generally will be in the form of maintenance, merc maintenance also is unaffected by LAND maintenance, this means that if you go merc only and go over force limit, the game can't even punish you whatsoever, as it'll keep raising your land maintenance which you'd have at zero. it's also easy to do, you need a country with a -15% merc maint (milan, florence(or the formable tuscany) , switzerland, burgundy), merc ideas, admin ideas( for the policy) and the T5 reform elite mercenaries, just don't bother with militarization and you'll have a merc maint buff, they'll be even cheaper than regular units. Also, very niche, but you can have war taxes at zero if you take the war economy gov reform with merc ideas, which is nice, not crazy or anything obviously, I also had my mil techs cost less than actual ideas at some point. I agree they're situational, you really need to focus your game on mercs to get the most out of it, but I recommend trying at least one merc-focused campaign
@@Alorand no, Militarization is the government ability you gain after the T5 reform. Professionalism isn't strictly opposed to a merc playstyle, at 0 professionalism you get a buff to merc cost (near pointless) and merc manpower (which is useful, admittedly) but if the bonuses from 100% professionalism are worth going for, you can drill, merc ideas will make companies cost no professionalism
Combat stats: drake nono Manpower and economy stats: real deal But tbh, that menchart from pluto is so good, love him. (And how is it, that my favorit eu4 stats youtuber does not know how many merchants are there at the start of a game. 10% respect lost debuff :( )
i HATE ❤🚫 quality ideas if the naval meta vs ai wasnt to just make more ships than them naval would be god tier, tho tbh i guess its not that different from land armies
while messing around in a non ironman game trying to make the most powerful Italy i could (no mods where used). i encountered the well known bug where as Milan you can't get the missions of Tuscany when forming Tuscany (i have all my dlc's on. I have the emperor dlc. the decision even said that I'd gain new missions, and the game decided to object to this even after a monthly tick), at the very least i was not really needing much from Tuscany but I'm unsure what to do about it next time this bug happens (all i can think of is perhaps Tuscany doesn't give missions if you are using specific reforms such as the ambrosian republic (which is among the best tier 1 reforms that give combat bonuses directly that don't also make your ruler/heir generals or something, and it's not part of the revolution which means it doesn't change basically everything about the government), though from what people say it might work if you had a military dictatorship or stayed a monarchy)
@@LemonCake101 as i said. i don't know why it happened nor how to prevent it, all I know is that I'm glad it didn't happen in an ironman game where it would matter way more
Many ideas are situational. You can build your early strategy on around defending a single mountain fort, and bleed Ottomans as Georgia or Ming as Korea. Carefully placed forts will keep your heartland prosperous. But later in a game you will concentrate on sieging enemy forts and battles, and def is not that important anymore. Still, it's very annoying when AI takes this idea, and it does it very often, even for countries, for which it doesn't make much sense. For example, for England. Overall, I agree with absolutely busted tier, except of Natives, because I never played as them. I also like how, if you play as Byz, some ideas are telling you: take me! take me (I have plus 1 pronoia)!
I think I thought of why France is arguably one of the better candidates to quickly form rome. Not only do they start with a lot of land and subjects. They get more from a war with England. There mission tree and national ideas don't care if you are Catholic (it will somewhat change the mission tree, but it adapts to said change). And because of that you can own Rome without a penalty while on the path to forming rome. Through it could be arguably better to start as England to pu france and do certain missions that give reform options and the ones that give reform progress. Go protestant or Anglican (it doesn't really matter which one that badly for this). At some point inherit France. Culture shift to the French culture that has a monarch reform with parliament, and suddenly you became a slightly better France in a better position to form rome (unfortunately I don't know if you can get those specific reforms without a certain dlc. And you could also do better by using a specific dlc so you could form a unique nation as England in that situation, but at the very least this idea doesn't rely on any dlc to be doable and takes advantage of the fact England isn't an end tag)
I mean I have to admit, currently I subscribe to the Students line of thought, which is that England into Angevin is the way to go. Which does make sense; it is insanely well situated to do so.
@@LemonCake101 well for the average joe that's probably the case, but for better players ottomans are by far the best, no contest, with the mamluks being a close 2nd also here's a 100% unrelated fun fact, there's a few nations that are actually more broken than persia for devving
@@LemonCake101 I agree. but why i suggested the option i did was because Angevin requires domination from what i recall from the wiki. not everyone has domination. though after looking on the wiki it seems the reforms i mentioned require domination. and the wiki seems to not say the reform that a specific French culture allows that gives parliament (though you could just culture shift back to English culture so you can keep your parliament, and I guess you could do some missions as England if you wanted anything specific before then), either way though you would be in a better position to form Rome than starting as France directly
Navy should be in solid. Naval supremacy allows you to transport troops to strategic locations, destroy any fleet, naval blockade which also helps with multiple things during war, -100% naval barrage cost = literally breaching fortress with 0 millitary points when your ship is next to the province.
damn i been playing wrong this entire time sadge. but would have also been fun at the end to go through it again and tell him how the community places them in a tier list
30:50 I would say that in single player aristocratic is usually the meta opener. You don't need military bonuses in SP. Aristocratic/plutocratic/divine and defensive are the only military idea groups I ever take, because those are the only idea groups that give you development cost reduction.
@@LemonCake101 Maybe I play minors too much, but I don't really sea point opening with admin. While diplo is great opener. And I do not do extreme try-hard runs, hence aristocratic is usually quite nice opener that gives you a little bit of everything. Usually waiting with admin for third or even fourth idea slot is not a problem, unless you are mega blobbing. Although I will admit that I recently suffered immensely because I opened Novgorod with plutocratic (my first republic run in 2500 hours) and I had to take admin as second, third was reserved for religious and I took diplomatic as a forth. Because I wanted finish Novgorod mission tree before forming Russia (I double checked, I do not inherit Novgorod mission tree after forming Russia, even though many people claimed that I should - maybe I am lacking some DLC, even though I have DLCs with missions for Novgorod and Russia) I was stuck with two diplomats for very long time. So I admit, that playing as Novgorod I should definitely open with diplo/admin if I had to for long time stay as Novgorod.
@@Hadar1991 oh roleplay games do whatever for tierlists we assume optimal play otherwise the best idea is whatever is more fun and hence rankings are all pointless and well you need admin for ccr.
Ok, but let's be honest- nobody that already formed Roman Empire has ever used one- by the time you have 3500+ dev from conquering those 425 provinces and 300k of your own units, nobody will care for 2-3 vassals that you can't annex whenever you please, that can't conquer shit, can't develop shit, that don't pay you shit (they pay you literally 10 times less money than a normal vassal (15 times less than a core eyelet)) that give you no force limit regardless of how many "vassal force limit contributions" you stack because their base contribution is 0 (for a normal vassal it's 1), in fact it reduces your force limit before you do a certain Byzantine mission. And will be constantly angry at you, because they have the worst possible liberty desire calculation out of any subject in the game. And you can't even give them land via a war because they have -20% administrative efficiency and +100% core creation cost by default.
Quality would be so much better if the +10% Artillery combat bonus came before all the naval buffs. It's really the naval buffs that make it pretty mid, if the group lacked all of the naval buffs and just had the land buffs as well as the discipline bonus at the end, it would be pretty good imo
i'm going to chalk any disagreements down to not covering national ideas, policies and the synergies there! because otherwise as an official list its hard to disagree
Quality is mandatory in multiplayer where discipline, artillery combat ability and the policies are of huge value. But in singleplayer its just ass. Especially the three naval ideas make it awful.
There's no eu4 player who would put quality at the bottom. Combat ability is absolutely busted in this game. Even if it's balanced in multiplayer against quantity, it has a hidden advantage against numbers. It inflicts emotional damage! -I won, but at what cost!(3x the casualties) -Sire, we will replenish those losses in 3 months. -I know, but we just suffered a million casualties! Same thing with defensive. Morale of armies is just as busted and way more important for quantity than quality army builds!
@@robertocozzi7306 if you take those idea groups in singleplayer you are just larping and not playing properly, no mil ideas other than offensive/quantity are worth it mp is a different story tho, but i wouldn't take horde in MP
@@robertocozzi7306 ok sure you can play how you want but this is a tier list topic, not "what is most fun", every idea group is viable if you find it fun, doesn't mean its optimal
www.youtube.com/@suedeciviii7142 check him out, he is going to be live later today too!
Suedeeuiv
He is great, I've really been enjoying his vids lately!
The real Europa was the universalis we made along the 4
I can't believe the Universalis was the Bay Harbour Butcher
@@popecorn_I can’t believe that doakes was the bay trade node butcher
We made in all 4*
En 4 te la pongo 😈 les falta calle 🧉🗿
@@zaikolebolsh5724 jajajajaja
its so over for the quality innovative offensive economic
Fuck I used to live opening with Inno-quality before 1.30. Hit insane innovativeness by the time you're done with both groups since I wouldn't ever pick either of those first and a very solid +20% inf ability
Is this you trying to subtly segway your channel into civ
If he was doing that it wouldn't be subtle. He has enough diplo points saved up to buy cores on half a dozen civ games
I mean, I would be up for it, Civ 7 is coming out.
@@suedeciviii7142 buy cores with diplo points? What Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
Truly, the meta is starting as a North American Native, taking Indigenous, becoming a Horde, becoming a republic and then spamming as many troops as humanly possible
Quality in bad is very un-discipline pilled :(
Sad Prussia noises*
It literally gives discipline
@@lordedmundblackadder9321 plus economic policy with it
@@piggysew797 quality + Econ + offensive my beloved ❤️❤️❤️
I guess yall are tarded or sumn. I was making an argument FOR quality, the video ranked quality low. I like quality for the discipline?
the "if you're defending, you're losing" line is true in most contexts, but, siege races exist. winning siege races more often isn't useless.
then he goes and glosses over siege ability, as though that's not 95% of the game. oof.
"If you're defending you're losing" is not true at all in EU4, and that's one of the few games where this is the case. It is absolutely viable to sit out opponents, especially if you have high attrition provinces as well.
Based and Quantitypilled
this is truly one of the unbiased videos of all time
Aristocratic + Horde + Quality + Playing as Poland = Absolutely busted cavalry.
Sich Rada government reform but from Poland for a second to get Aristocratic and the Polish tree.
@@sld1776 And obviously : 100% influence for the Cossacks estate.
"I havent put them there. Thats where they are" based
Will there be a lemon cake recipe video at 25k?
👀
I don't see any "nature" channel making a video on how to cook your average human in a nice soup recipe with tons of spices and stuff
That would be ABSOLUTELY BUSTED
18:00 I'd like to add that for maneuver pips, supply limit and reinforce speed are positively affected for each pip you have. At least that's how I understand maneuver.
I did forgor supply limit
Could we get an unbiased loading screen tips ranking with garlic man?
TRVTH NVKE: almost all military ideas are pointless. Having problems winning wars? Get good.
yoo wait??
Land leader maneuver from Defensive also reduce attrition taken. So a 6 pip maneuver should significantly reduce attrition in sieges.
As attrition contribute to most losses, at least in my games, as i have to stack enough troops on that hill or mountain to deter attacks from the AI, its a good thing. Highlight is clearly the 15% morale.
you can park your troops on the province next to the sieged province and 9 times out of 10 the AI will see them and be just as deterred. If they start to move in, you move in as well and theyll instantly stop for a little while. If you have enough, you can also let them lock their movement and take a good outnumbering fight with a reinforce meme
@@australiananarchist480 Yes i hear you, and i do the two stack party. If you siege a level 8 fort with 20k you get like 3+% attrition, that is in 12 months a loss of 7200. And if 100k stacks run around you you need to park far more than 20k on that fort. Beside the other 150k near to deter any attack wich means they stand in attrition as well.
In MP you can see the results, 1 million + in one siege. The losses are staggering, 50,000 a month just through attrition.
just take a look at the ledger and you may find out that your total losses in a campaign are easy 2/3 due to attrition.
@@australiananarchist480 You can yes, emphasis on can. At the same time keeping the stack together is sometimes the only reason AI doesnt jump on army and ruins your siege.
first, i love lemons
woo
Secondly, I love lemon, homoerotically.
This video really increased your sub count from 4 to 24k. Amazing.
"QIZBALASH' BROOOO
"Persian" bro NOOOO 😭😭
Bro is collecting the infinity stones of collabs
I never realized how bad Quality was. Thanks for the showing me the error of my ways I'll be sure to go Espionage first instead.
I feel like I learned more about eu4 mechanics in this video than I have from tutorials.
This was a really fun video :)
Naval at the bottom is truely based
To tell you how long I've waiting for your take on idea groups papa lemon cake
20:55
Mercenary cost means nothing, the real kicker is Merc maintenance, merc cost only applies when you're first hiring the company, most of what you'll be paying generally will be in the form of maintenance, merc maintenance also is unaffected by LAND maintenance, this means that if you go merc only and go over force limit, the game can't even punish you whatsoever, as it'll keep raising your land maintenance which you'd have at zero.
it's also easy to do, you need a country with a -15% merc maint (milan, florence(or the formable tuscany) , switzerland, burgundy), merc ideas, admin ideas( for the policy) and the T5 reform elite mercenaries, just don't bother with militarization and you'll have a merc maint buff, they'll be even cheaper than regular units.
Also, very niche, but you can have war taxes at zero if you take the war economy gov reform with merc ideas, which is nice, not crazy or anything obviously, I also had my mil techs cost less than actual ideas at some point.
I agree they're situational, you really need to focus your game on mercs to get the most out of it, but I recommend trying at least one merc-focused campaign
"just don't bother with militarization" - I think you mean 'Professionalism'.
@@Alorand no, Militarization is the government ability you gain after the T5 reform.
Professionalism isn't strictly opposed to a merc playstyle, at 0 professionalism you get a buff to merc cost (near pointless) and merc manpower (which is useful, admittedly) but if the bonuses from 100% professionalism are worth going for, you can drill, merc ideas will make companies cost no professionalism
I thought that merc cost worked like regiment cost in that the maintenance is determined by the cost. is that not the case?
@@grabbers6520 regiment cost affects merc maintenance but merc cost does not
@@alymohamed9947 wait, merc maintenance is affected by regiment cost but not by regiment maintenance ? That's so cursed paradox haha
This is the collab I never knew I needed.
0/10 didn't consider the possible policies with other idea groups
I asked for it and he declined
The crossover I never knew I needed 😂
Combat stats: drake nono
Manpower and economy stats: real deal
But tbh, that menchart from pluto is so good, love him.
(And how is it, that my favorit eu4 stats youtuber does not know how many merchants are there at the start of a game. 10% respect lost debuff :( )
I forgor it two :(
Why don’t you just rank every single possible built in eu4 from colonial Rhade to tall Finland.
I’m in awe at the wisdom in this list. Anyone else go straight to the comments when quality went in the bad tier?
The crossover i didnt know i wanted but i loved it
This may be your best video
i HATE ❤🚫 quality ideas
if the naval meta vs ai wasnt to just make more ships than them naval would be god tier, tho tbh i guess its not that different from land armies
Waiting for tier list of every lemoncake's tier list
I've been saying for ages that Horde is busted. Finally, someone acknowledges this powerful truth.
To be fair it's not really worse than what I see from players with 1000s of hours in the game.
Lemon just knowingly chuckling away is the best part of this.
What no
while messing around in a non ironman game trying to make the most powerful Italy i could (no mods where used). i encountered the well known bug where as Milan you can't get the missions of Tuscany when forming Tuscany (i have all my dlc's on. I have the emperor dlc. the decision even said that I'd gain new missions, and the game decided to object to this even after a monthly tick), at the very least i was not really needing much from Tuscany but I'm unsure what to do about it next time this bug happens (all i can think of is perhaps Tuscany doesn't give missions if you are using specific reforms such as the ambrosian republic (which is among the best tier 1 reforms that give combat bonuses directly that don't also make your ruler/heir generals or something, and it's not part of the revolution which means it doesn't change basically everything about the government), though from what people say it might work if you had a military dictatorship or stayed a monarchy)
Frankly as a Milan into Florence enjoyer that is the first time I am hearing about this bug, I have never had issues.
@@LemonCake101 as i said. i don't know why it happened nor how to prevent it, all I know is that I'm glad it didn't happen in an ironman game where it would matter way more
Many ideas are situational. You can build your early strategy on around defending a single mountain fort, and bleed Ottomans as Georgia or Ming as Korea. Carefully placed forts will keep your heartland prosperous. But later in a game you will concentrate on sieging enemy forts and battles, and def is not that important anymore. Still, it's very annoying when AI takes this idea, and it does it very often, even for countries, for which it doesn't make much sense. For example, for England. Overall, I agree with absolutely busted tier, except of Natives, because I never played as them. I also like how, if you play as Byz, some ideas are telling you: take me! take me (I have plus 1 pronoia)!
going aristocratic in my next mp game for this
I like Diplomatic ideas, AITA??
A yes my favorite military idea, flexible negotiations
17:25 Finally, some true fax on this channel
Need Dip and Adm ideas ranked next my dude.
I think I thought of why France is arguably one of the better candidates to quickly form rome. Not only do they start with a lot of land and subjects. They get more from a war with England. There mission tree and national ideas don't care if you are Catholic (it will somewhat change the mission tree, but it adapts to said change). And because of that you can own Rome without a penalty while on the path to forming rome. Through it could be arguably better to start as England to pu france and do certain missions that give reform options and the ones that give reform progress. Go protestant or Anglican (it doesn't really matter which one that badly for this). At some point inherit France. Culture shift to the French culture that has a monarch reform with parliament, and suddenly you became a slightly better France in a better position to form rome (unfortunately I don't know if you can get those specific reforms without a certain dlc. And you could also do better by using a specific dlc so you could form a unique nation as England in that situation, but at the very least this idea doesn't rely on any dlc to be doable and takes advantage of the fact England isn't an end tag)
I mean I have to admit, currently I subscribe to the Students line of thought, which is that England into Angevin is the way to go. Which does make sense; it is insanely well situated to do so.
@@LemonCake101 well for the average joe that's probably the case, but for better players ottomans are by far the best, no contest, with the mamluks being a close 2nd
also here's a 100% unrelated fun fact, there's a few nations that are actually more broken than persia for devving
@@LemonCake101 I agree. but why i suggested the option i did was because Angevin requires domination from what i recall from the wiki. not everyone has domination. though after looking on the wiki it seems the reforms i mentioned require domination. and the wiki seems to not say the reform that a specific French culture allows that gives parliament (though you could just culture shift back to English culture so you can keep your parliament, and I guess you could do some missions as England if you wanted anything specific before then), either way though you would be in a better position to form Rome than starting as France directly
I must be missing the DLC that gives you an extra merchant at the start of the game. 🤣🤣
you need to play with the 'streamer luck' DLC trust
Navy should be in solid. Naval supremacy allows you to transport troops to strategic locations, destroy any fleet, naval blockade which also helps with multiple things during war, -100% naval barrage cost = literally breaching fortress with 0 millitary points when your ship is next to the province.
I mean at the risk of opinions given: this is all true, but in SP this is all achievable and then some without naval ideas.
I’m 6 minutes in and at this rate he will know everything about the game 😂
I would love a post mortem of why suede nade his picks and why the meta is different
Melon cake really gaslighting us thatnaval isnt S tier. Hes even got a poor little eu3 guy
Quality worse than defensive. MADNESS. I hope you roll a bad start for your next CIV MP campaigns.
damn i been playing wrong this entire time sadge. but would have also been fun at the end to go through it again and tell him how the community places them in a tier list
I guess I pick quality, because it adds a challenge then. Yes that's why.
Very high quantity video.
You should do this but do ideas instead of idea groups
Real combat sometimes did often involve shock and fire phases as it were following each other. Though combat being half and half is unlikely.
0:59 where do i get this image of jabba the hutt cat
It is the pfp of a certain individual
30:50 I would say that in single player aristocratic is usually the meta opener. You don't need military bonuses in SP. Aristocratic/plutocratic/divine and defensive are the only military idea groups I ever take, because those are the only idea groups that give you development cost reduction.
I mean SP for tryhard runs you are opening admin/dip or dip/admin
@@LemonCake101 Maybe I play minors too much, but I don't really sea point opening with admin. While diplo is great opener. And I do not do extreme try-hard runs, hence aristocratic is usually quite nice opener that gives you a little bit of everything. Usually waiting with admin for third or even fourth idea slot is not a problem, unless you are mega blobbing.
Although I will admit that I recently suffered immensely because I opened Novgorod with plutocratic (my first republic run in 2500 hours) and I had to take admin as second, third was reserved for religious and I took diplomatic as a forth. Because I wanted finish Novgorod mission tree before forming Russia (I double checked, I do not inherit Novgorod mission tree after forming Russia, even though many people claimed that I should - maybe I am lacking some DLC, even though I have DLCs with missions for Novgorod and Russia) I was stuck with two diplomats for very long time. So I admit, that playing as Novgorod I should definitely open with diplo/admin if I had to for long time stay as Novgorod.
@@Hadar1991 oh roleplay games do whatever for tierlists we assume optimal play otherwise the best idea is whatever is more fun and hence rankings are all pointless and well you need admin for ccr.
Imagine not just overstacking and letting it ride
So size matters in numbers but not on physical, good, good
Aristo opening is busted
roman empire also has pronoia
oh damn
Ok, but let's be honest- nobody that already formed Roman Empire has ever used one- by the time you have 3500+ dev from conquering those 425 provinces and 300k of your own units, nobody will care for 2-3 vassals that you can't annex whenever you please, that can't conquer shit, can't develop shit, that don't pay you shit (they pay you literally 10 times less money than a normal vassal (15 times less than a core eyelet)) that give you no force limit regardless of how many "vassal force limit contributions" you stack because their base contribution is 0 (for a normal vassal it's 1), in fact it reduces your force limit before you do a certain Byzantine mission. And will be constantly angry at you, because they have the worst possible liberty desire calculation out of any subject in the game.
And you can't even give them land via a war because they have -20% administrative efficiency and +100% core creation cost by default.
@@IndependentObserverbro rlly hates pronoiars 😭😭😭
imagine not putting naval ideas on the top tier
One day navy will matter
You should absolutely plan your game around winning siege races.
Now do that considering all the possible policies
Quality would be so much better if the +10% Artillery combat bonus came before all the naval buffs. It's really the naval buffs that make it pretty mid, if the group lacked all of the naval buffs and just had the land buffs as well as the discipline bonus at the end, it would be pretty good imo
The tribal group also has some great policies.
Do you think maybe pterodactyl is ahead in subs because you plug his channel in every video?
Nope, no chance.
Its a token to how busted combat ability is in this game. That quality can have 2 horrible ideas and still be the best by far. Insane.
i'm going to chalk any disagreements down to not covering national ideas, policies and the synergies there! because otherwise as an official list its hard to disagree
Naturally, but Suede declined to comment on policies etc :(
lost me at quality, prior to that this was a really good list
Quality is mandatory in multiplayer where discipline, artillery combat ability and the policies are of huge value.
But in singleplayer its just ass. Especially the three naval ideas make it awful.
Inno + quality policy is insane but then you have to take inno...
unironically quality is the worse one between those 2
They're both good imo but i play taller so@toreq1127
There's no eu4 player who would put quality at the bottom. Combat ability is absolutely busted in this game. Even if it's balanced in multiplayer against quantity, it has a hidden advantage against numbers. It inflicts emotional damage!
-I won, but at what cost!(3x the casualties)
-Sire, we will replenish those losses in 3 months.
-I know, but we just suffered a million casualties!
Same thing with defensive. Morale of armies is just as busted and way more important for quantity than quality army builds!
Want you to start posting civilization video?
You mispronounced the name for army estate of qyzylbash by saying qyzbalash. That were the turcoman tribes, and their names translate as Redhats
Ah fair
Lmfao putting quality in bad is insane when you consider how synergistic it is with innovative and other idea groups
other mil idea groups have better policies quality is pure larp
Lies and slander its not the MP meta, this is 100% true. Educate yourself.
This is
it's so over qualitybros
Bongo
Bongo!
the shrimple answer
offensive S tier, quantity b tier
everything else is trash
Aristocratic and horde + espionage is top tier for cavalry builds
Pluto is good overall
@@robertocozzi7306 if you take those idea groups in singleplayer you are just larping and not playing properly, no mil ideas other than offensive/quantity are worth it
mp is a different story tho, but i wouldn't take horde in MP
@@RobbiusBossius why should I "play properly" in single player? I want to have fun, not minmaxing to form Rome by 1500
@@robertocozzi7306 ok sure you can play how you want but this is a tier list topic, not "what is most fun", every idea group is viable if you find it fun, doesn't mean its optimal
@@RobbiusBossius cry
blud hath not played the game even 💀 why do we care about his input
cope?
More
Qizbalash and quality is bad.