Not sure why but it seems I like auto racing analogies. First thing I thought of with this topic is shmups are like competing for lap times and fighters is racing wheel to wheel. The first is purely technical while the second you are directly competing against another. It’s not about how fast you are but simply beating the competitor. It’s you vs the track compared to you vs another person directly. There is no score or time just a winner. Not going anywhere with this besides the unusual comparison at 2am lol. On a side note my son plays smash competitively. It’s a really fun game to watch as well as play. He’s usually top 8-16 in local tournaments (or was pre covid) so he’s getting there. Sure a hell of a lot better than me!
Great quotes :-D I d be lying if I said it wasn t true, but that s what makes shmups the best, they don t coddle the player or give false pretense. They make it crystal clear how bad the player is, which I respect ha.
Great topic and correlation between the two. We seriously need another game like Twinkle Star Sprites/2hu Phantasmagoria. It's such a unique blend that work however never done again.
Was thinking about fighting games a little bit in terms of practice while I was training in Mushihimesama. Good to see other aspects of both genres expanded on, compared and articulated. I still felt a bit sad when you mentioned Armada retiring even though it happened a while ago.
I feel your pain on having nobody to play SNES New Challengers with - I picked up an SFC copy recently and it quickly became one of my fave home versions of SF! I've been getting really into loads of Saturn ports of Capcom's fighters recently, too, and wish there was still a buzz around stuff like Darkstalkers and X-Men vs. Street Fighter. It's such a shame that any FG that isn't competitively "current" is almost literally seen as obsolete, especially as most people into older games (rightly) manage not to take this attitude towards games in other genres...
Quality topic! In a funny way bullet hells have very homogenized gameplay these days much like fighting games centered around eSports these days. More games should experiment with mechanics more. I like Fighting EX Layer because the Gougi system changes the way characters play and in turn the meta evolves constantly without huge patches. I guess I just noticed an overaching apprehension to new concepts. But I agree that lab monster comment. It's like being a beast on stage 1 lol.
This video was amazing!!! My favorite of yours yet and All the more reason we need to do something again since I never even realized that. Point being great video, I love the Armada thing kind of remind me of if daigo did the same thing etc... Then also remind me of why I hate Street Fighter 5 and stuff and you saying all this kind of made it make a lot more sense!!! 3rd Strike and Doujins baby!
One quick thing: I have taken your advice and started looking through itch.io for shmups and got really overwhelmed. You should consider a recommended shmups video to counter all the ones for Steam. Keep up the great videos.
I feel like speedrunning would be an interesting comparison too. There are a lot of similarities like with competitive format, but also some interesting differences. It's surprising to me that shmup strat hunters are also top players. In speedrunning they are usually different, more like fighting games. I also think the lack of competitiveness could be an asset. In speedrunning, every single event is a charity event, and showing off is more important than winning. Even outside of that, a good time is satisfying in itself, and most people care about PB and sub-X more than WR. It makes for a very warm and wholesome community. I'm new to shmups and don't really know how events work or how the community relates like that. Are they similar, or different?
My two favorite arcade games is fighting games like street fighter and all SMUPS, my favorite shmup of all of smups is called Giga wings!! i wish they will add that to steam
I wonder if it would be possible to have a sort of EVO tournament for different shmups like the FGC but instead of losing by KO you would lose by not beating the guy you are up against in your brackets hi score. I have never thought about this ever before but I think in this internet streaming commentating world I think it would be possible and really hype watching the best in the world go at it in a score attack mode, 1 credit see what your highest score is wins. 🤔
@@TheElectricUnderground on parallel or opposite hardware with a 54321 GO! (then when you get into the top 8 crowds are chanting the countdown) as both games start at the same time and you can see who's winning in real time or who is doing max combo's and catching the leaders score fast! Yeah I think it could work... Here's me thinking about at 2am UK time lol!
This video made me think. And it’s somewhat not related to the topic. It’s, do we really want shmups to be popular/accepted? Sure if they are we get more games, more quality games, maybe some old devs and designers come back because there is a demand now. All well and good but then I really think and don’t want it as much. I like shmups because it’s just the games and a small community. Once more people show up, some devs might get greedy with their monetization tactics, people will make annoying UA-cam thumbnails and videos, E girls will be streaming this game while on a hot tub on twitch,unnecessary drama, people playing shmups on the background while they talk about their political views, among worse things that happen in bigger communities that I won’t say. To me I just like to play a games watch a video and not have to listen to someone who rents out a studio to make videos and every year makes a video where he cries and says “UA-cam doesn’t pay me enough, with the help from the patron I’m allowed to do this” or whatever. Idk for me I’m happy to the size of the community is now. There isn’t much annoying things, the most offensive thing to the shmup community is the input lag on some ports which I’d rather take than any of the other stuff.
How are enjoying the Shooting Game Festival? They're done with Ibara (game done by a guy who used to work at Eighting/Raizing) and Metal Black. Soon on the list is a double feature of Battle Garegga and Armed Police Batrider also Aka to Blue
Any thoughts on Competitive Music game? Stuff like Konami's Beatmania IIDX, Soundvoltex, Jubeat, Nostalgia, Pop'n Music, Reflec Beat, Gitadora, Dance Rush, and DDR. I've noticed how many shmupers especially people who are kin to bullet hell like Touhou and Cave games usually do quite well with these games. I wonder if you ever play games like it. If not, I would definitely suggest you try some of them.
@@TheElectricUnderground You will be surprised.. especially if you are playing it on latest arcade machine. I've been playing Beatmania IIDX (7 Keyboard with Turntable) for while. And I''ve been thinking that It has very similar aspects to the shmup. Short, Well Paced, High Execution for higher score, Difficulty of surviving, Manuvering your body movement to be very efficient about pressing the note accurately. And sometimes I think these Konami games does what Modern Shmup doesn't do: using the card system that the data links to the website. Meaning that the game actually tracks your score and your gameplay data. And Also, you can customize so many different thing by purchasing items (Note Skin, Note Effect, Adorable aProfile Character) via in-game point. It also has like so many accessibility feature stuff adjusting judgement line, adding randomized pattern, or something that helps users for how they see things. Another interesting aspect is that you can set up difficulty, but usually these difficulty selection only means of survival. So if you want to just easily beat the song to unlock it you can select easy mode, but if you want to improve your gameplay you can ramp up the difficulty higher and trying to survive the song. And if you survive it, it means you really played very well so most likely you are going to get quite good score too. It's like the game naturally helps you. and sometimes I think, wow.. I wish shmup had something like this (M2 did something similar to this.. but I wish there were more features too).
There are some south american players playing last blade 2 on fightcade, i'd play with you if i wasn't literally in the other side of the planet. PS I just build my first arcade stick, thanks for the tutorial video.
I feel SHMUP’s are more comparable to racing and speed running than fighting games. Also the skills required to play shmups translates into racing more so than I fee it translates into fighting games… unless you’re opponent is Chris G and you’re playing UMvC3… But one of the main skills in a shmup is seeing a path you can take and not die and not get hit. This is very useful on a race. Another skill is mental toughness when you’re going to reset over and over to get the best run… and this happens a lot in speed running. Fighting games aren’t really that comparable to SHMUP’s imo. Speed running and racing is though.
Have you seen this video where Daigo is frustrated in his attempts to do a no round loss 1cc of SFII? ua-cam.com/video/b47qorLT1pc/v-deo.html He does eventually get it though. ua-cam.com/video/Ysq4FuKuKWY/v-deo.html
I’ve just noticed. I use Akuma and use that Exact same costume and colour!. Wow! I’ve got loads of videos up on my channel I’d love to play you in usf4 sometime. My tag is mtdb503 on PS4 Just one small note .. on the Patreon roll , it’s pronounced mark tombs as in things that people are buried in Cheers .
funny you mention playing street fighter 2 for the snes with your borther. i am the same. super street fighter 2 new challengers is also my favorite and i only played it "competively" with my siblings or friends. after turbo became the default for seemingly every popular fighting game i kinda lost interest in the genre.
Versus fighters is the ultimate competitive genre. It's pure one-on-one. Very little luck involved and there are no excuses for losing. To use a card game analogy - fighting games are Poker and shmups are Blackjack. In Blackjack everyone is competing against the house in parallel. But both are games of skill and have their technical aspects. versus fighters and poker have smack talk and psychology as well. Shmups are a mind game too but you are fighting against yourself then. I love the fighting genre but my problem is I just cannot play fighters - just don't get it. I think I'd need to have a few friends to get into it - and I'd need at least one friend who is really good at it to teach me. If I try playing against CPU I just get frustrated because I don't know what I'm doing and I end up mashing buttons which is no fun at all. The button presses feel far too contrived as well in fighters which is a barrier for me. I imagine it would make sense once I got into it but
reco-chan is an S+ tier zoner, ryu already has enough trouble as it is facing one american dude with a brush for a head who throws charged projectiles one at the time, ryu won't even survive minimal power level of reco's w-type shot epic
Not sure why but it seems I like auto racing analogies. First thing I thought of with this topic is shmups are like competing for lap times and fighters is racing wheel to wheel. The first is purely technical while the second you are directly competing against another. It’s not about how fast you are but simply beating the competitor. It’s you vs the track compared to you vs another person directly. There is no score or time just a winner. Not going anywhere with this besides the unusual comparison at 2am lol.
On a side note my son plays smash competitively. It’s a really fun game to watch as well as play. He’s usually top 8-16 in local tournaments (or was pre covid) so he’s getting there. Sure a hell of a lot better than me!
That is a great analogy! Nothing wrong with thinking about racing ha. That s really cool your son competes in smash :-)
It's golf vs tennis, my friend. In fighters, improvement is measured in who you can beat. In shmups, your own limitations are the only benchmark.
Excellent analogy! Yes I agree!
"Shmups are designed to crush your soul."
"Shmups players are much more likely to be depressed and sad."
Great quotes :-D I d be lying if I said it wasn t true, but that s what makes shmups the best, they don t coddle the player or give false pretense. They make it crystal clear how bad the player is, which I respect ha.
Hell yeah... Great quotes or the greatest? I'll leave that up to y'all but STGs are definitely the true sweet science.
Great topic and correlation between the two.
We seriously need another game like Twinkle Star Sprites/2hu Phantasmagoria. It's such a unique blend that work however never done again.
Great stuff here. I’m always looking to improve my game so thanks for taking the time to put this out.
Was thinking about fighting games a little bit in terms of practice while I was training in Mushihimesama. Good to see other aspects of both genres expanded on, compared and articulated.
I still felt a bit sad when you mentioned Armada retiring even though it happened a while ago.
Yeah it s such a bummer, he really should come back to melee
I feel your pain on having nobody to play SNES New Challengers with - I picked up an SFC copy recently and it quickly became one of my fave home versions of SF! I've been getting really into loads of Saturn ports of Capcom's fighters recently, too, and wish there was still a buzz around stuff like Darkstalkers and X-Men vs. Street Fighter. It's such a shame that any FG that isn't competitively "current" is almost literally seen as obsolete, especially as most people into older games (rightly) manage not to take this attitude towards games in other genres...
Quality topic! In a funny way bullet hells have very homogenized gameplay these days much like fighting games centered around eSports these days. More games should experiment with mechanics more. I like Fighting EX Layer because the Gougi system changes the way characters play and in turn the meta evolves constantly without huge patches. I guess I just noticed an overaching apprehension to new concepts.
But I agree that lab monster comment. It's like being a beast on stage 1 lol.
Exactly 👌
Yes, I sometimes also wish people would give some mugen fighting games more of a chance, some of them are insane but really fun.
Love me a good shmup but I SUCK at fighting games! I love the idea of being really good at them but I've never been able to put the time in.
This video was amazing!!! My favorite of yours yet and All the more reason we need to do something again since I never even realized that.
Point being great video, I love the Armada thing kind of remind me of if daigo did the same thing etc... Then also remind me of why I hate Street Fighter 5 and stuff and you saying all this kind of made it make a lot more sense!!! 3rd Strike and Doujins baby!
Yeah can t go wrong firing up good old 3rd strike!
One quick thing: I have taken your advice and started looking through itch.io for shmups and got really overwhelmed. You should consider a recommended shmups video to counter all the ones for Steam.
Keep up the great videos.
I must have been looking in a wrong way
I love Fighting Games and Shmups.....
Me too!
Same, but i suck at both lmao
Yeah me also, always have.
I feel like speedrunning would be an interesting comparison too. There are a lot of similarities like with competitive format, but also some interesting differences.
It's surprising to me that shmup strat hunters are also top players. In speedrunning they are usually different, more like fighting games.
I also think the lack of competitiveness could be an asset. In speedrunning, every single event is a charity event, and showing off is more important than winning. Even outside of that, a good time is satisfying in itself, and most people care about PB and sub-X more than WR. It makes for a very warm and wholesome community.
I'm new to shmups and don't really know how events work or how the community relates like that. Are they similar, or different?
Good news! I am making a Speedeunning vs scorerunning video soon! :-D they are similar, but also have some key differences
Ryu and reco. My 2 favourite Waifus!. Akuma favourite uncle.
Mushi and street fighter 4 life 💓
My two favorite arcade games is fighting games like street fighter and all SMUPS, my favorite shmup of all of smups is called Giga wings!! i wish they will add that to steam
Interesting topic.
I wonder if it would be possible to have a sort of EVO tournament for different shmups like the FGC but instead of losing by KO you would lose by not beating the guy you are up against in your brackets hi score. I have never thought about this ever before but I think in this internet streaming commentating world I think it would be possible and really hype watching the best in the world go at it in a score attack mode, 1 credit see what your highest score is wins. 🤔
I d love something like that
@@TheElectricUnderground yes I think it would be awesome to watch for sure.
@@TheElectricUnderground on parallel or opposite hardware with a 54321 GO! (then when you get into the top 8 crowds are chanting the countdown) as both games start at the same time and you can see who's winning in real time or who is doing max combo's and catching the leaders score fast! Yeah I think it could work... Here's me thinking about at 2am UK time lol!
This video made me think. And it’s somewhat not related to the topic. It’s, do we really want shmups to be popular/accepted? Sure if they are we get more games, more quality games, maybe some old devs and designers come back because there is a demand now. All well and good but then I really think and don’t want it as much. I like shmups because it’s just the games and a small community. Once more people show up, some devs might get greedy with their monetization tactics, people will make annoying UA-cam thumbnails and videos, E girls will be streaming this game while on a hot tub on twitch,unnecessary drama, people playing shmups on the background while they talk about their political views, among worse things that happen in bigger communities that I won’t say. To me I just like to play a games watch a video and not have to listen to someone who rents out a studio to make videos and every year makes a video where he cries and says “UA-cam doesn’t pay me enough, with the help from the patron I’m allowed to do this” or whatever. Idk for me I’m happy to the size of the community is now. There isn’t much annoying things, the most offensive thing to the shmup community is the input lag on some ports which I’d rather take than any of the other stuff.
How are enjoying the Shooting Game Festival? They're done with Ibara (game done by a guy who used to work at Eighting/Raizing) and Metal Black. Soon on the list is a double feature of Battle Garegga and Armed Police Batrider also Aka to Blue
I need to tune in!!!! I 've been basically buried up to my neck with content and projects the past few weeks
Any thoughts on Competitive Music game? Stuff like Konami's Beatmania IIDX, Soundvoltex, Jubeat, Nostalgia, Pop'n Music, Reflec Beat, Gitadora, Dance Rush, and DDR.
I've noticed how many shmupers especially people who are kin to bullet hell like Touhou and Cave games usually do quite well with these games.
I wonder if you ever play games like it. If not, I would definitely suggest you try some of them.
I Definetly need to play some! Dance dance revolution especially
@@TheElectricUnderground You will be surprised.. especially if you are playing it on latest arcade machine. I've been playing Beatmania IIDX (7 Keyboard with Turntable) for while. And I''ve been thinking that It has very similar aspects to the shmup. Short, Well Paced, High Execution for higher score, Difficulty of surviving, Manuvering your body movement to be very efficient about pressing the note accurately. And sometimes I think these Konami games does what Modern Shmup doesn't do: using the card system that the data links to the website. Meaning that the game actually tracks your score and your gameplay data. And Also, you can customize so many different thing by purchasing items (Note Skin, Note Effect, Adorable aProfile Character) via in-game point. It also has like so many accessibility feature stuff adjusting judgement line, adding randomized pattern, or something that helps users for how they see things. Another interesting aspect is that you can set up difficulty, but usually these difficulty selection only means of survival. So if you want to just easily beat the song to unlock it you can select easy mode, but if you want to improve your gameplay you can ramp up the difficulty higher and trying to survive the song. And if you survive it, it means you really played very well so most likely you are going to get quite good score too. It's like the game naturally helps you. and sometimes I think, wow.. I wish shmup had something like this (M2 did something similar to this.. but I wish there were more features too).
The last time I got pulled over was cause of bad RNG lol. Loved this one, even as someone who's not competitive in either genre.
Glad you enjoyed it! I'm fond of this vid as well :-)
There are some south american players playing last blade 2 on fightcade, i'd play with you if i wasn't literally in the other side of the planet.
PS I just build my first arcade stick, thanks for the tutorial video.
Oh that s awesome to hear!!! Did you hear about kof 2002 on steam getting rollback, I m excited to try that out
@@TheElectricUnderground Yep never play UM though gotta learn.
I feel SHMUP’s are more comparable to racing and speed running than fighting games.
Also the skills required to play shmups translates into racing more so than I fee it translates into fighting games… unless you’re opponent is Chris G and you’re playing UMvC3…
But one of the main skills in a shmup is seeing a path you can take and not die and not get hit. This is very useful on a race.
Another skill is mental toughness when you’re going to reset over and over to get the best run… and this happens a lot in speed running.
Fighting games aren’t really that comparable to SHMUP’s imo. Speed running and racing is though.
Shmups, Fighting Games, and puzzles are the best 3 genres
Have you seen this video where Daigo is frustrated in his attempts to do a no round loss 1cc of SFII?
ua-cam.com/video/b47qorLT1pc/v-deo.html
He does eventually get it though.
ua-cam.com/video/Ysq4FuKuKWY/v-deo.html
That's awesome. Yeah the cpu in sf2 is crazy
I’ve just noticed. I use Akuma and use that Exact same costume and colour!. Wow!
I’ve got loads of videos up on my channel
I’d love to play you in usf4 sometime.
My tag is mtdb503 on PS4
Just one small note .. on the Patreon roll , it’s pronounced mark tombs as in things that people are buried in
Cheers .
Do you plAy 3rd strike at all? I ve switched over to mostly 3rd strike now
The Electric Underground yes mate but I only have it on 360. I will pick up the PS4 port if your down for a few games but I’m not so good at 3s.
funny you mention playing street fighter 2 for the snes with your borther. i am the same. super street fighter 2 new challengers is also my favorite and i only played it "competively" with my siblings or friends. after turbo became the default for seemingly every popular fighting game i kinda lost interest in the genre.
Yeah new challengers is slept on! We still play it from time to time
Versus fighters is the ultimate competitive genre. It's pure one-on-one. Very little luck involved and there are no excuses for losing. To use a card game analogy - fighting games are Poker and shmups are Blackjack. In Blackjack everyone is competing against the house in parallel. But both are games of skill and have their technical aspects. versus fighters and poker have smack talk and psychology as well. Shmups are a mind game too but you are fighting against yourself then. I love the fighting genre but my problem is I just cannot play fighters - just don't get it. I think I'd need to have a few friends to get into it - and I'd need at least one friend who is really good at it to teach me. If I try playing against CPU I just get frustrated because I don't know what I'm doing and I end up mashing buttons which is no fun at all. The button presses feel far too contrived as well in fighters which is a barrier for me. I imagine it would make sense once I got into it but
Haha arena shooters go brrrr
I am terrible at shmups, but i play hisoutensoku (touhou 12.3, an awesome fighter) pretty damn well
reco-chan is an S+ tier zoner, ryu already has enough trouble as it is facing one american dude with a brush for a head who throws charged projectiles one at the time, ryu won't even survive minimal power level of reco's w-type shot
epic
Reco needs to be on guilty gear ASAP! :-D she could be like a dizzy clone