1973 - World Cup Grandstand (BBC)
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- Опубліковано 16 бер 2019
- A rarity in my channel: 12 minutes of a rare Grandstand from 1973. This was an special edition of World Cup Grandstand, corresponding to the 1974 World Cup Qualifying game between Poland and England, introduced by David Coleman in Katowice, with Jimmy Hill, Bob Wilson, Frank Bough and Brian Clough in London.
This is an important moment, because it was the first time Jimmy Hill appeared on the Beeb as a pundit (the following season, he was in charge of Match of The Day). It was also important because Brian Clough appeared on the show; himself being appointed for ITV the following season (and also on the return leg at Wembley).
Last, but not least, it has the "intermediate" theme tune of Grandstand, of which only 20 seconds were known before.
It previously appeared on another video, which has been since deleted. I have decided not to show any action whatsoever, because there are many videos about that game. I am only interested of showing a very rare moment of football and TV. - Спорт
When pundits were worth listening to. Knowledgable, and in the case of Cloughie outspoken, entertaining and controversial. Great stuff thanks.
Agree, can’t listen to Sky pundits, Roy Keane etc. and don’t even mention TalkSport.
Knowledgeable????? Did you hear what they said? Clough had England winning easily, Poland amateurs etc etc - in fact they were an excellent side, who finished 3rd in the world cup.
Great upload.
These type of away games represented a genuine step into the unknown back in the day.
Poland’s mid 70’s team was superb! One of their best. They got to the semi final in 74 with Lato as top scorer and that superb goal keeper we wrote off stupidly! We lost to a better team yet acted like we had lost to a team who’d started playing football a week before! A national disaster in 74 which wouldn’t have happened if we weren’t so arrogant and showed the Poles some respect! Cost Sir Alf Ramsey his job when he should have stayed on an averted Don Revie’s unhappy, unacceptable reign and we didn’t recover until Sir Bobby Robson took over!
The rot in England’s team started in 1972, when the German’s beat us in the ‘Euros’ At Wembley. I was only a kid but could see Germany were playing a new type of football that made England look flat-footed.
Arrogance is the main reason England have won just *1* major trophy in 150 years.
@@darganxIt was mainly due to the fact that to be successful at top level the players needed qualities that were not naturally inherent in the way the game was played in England then. English football lived too long on the easy ball and the high cross. The easy ball, played to an un-marked player is the way that many English teams built up their attacks towards goal. But invariably the final pass into the penalty area was a high one.
At top level the players must be able to play the difficult ball - up to a front player who is tightly marked - and develop a move from there. And the final penetrating pass into the penalty area has to go into feet. his is completely contrary to the way the game was played in England in 1973.
I don't watch football now and although I know the game is more skilful, I don't know how much more skilful English players are in comparison with the 70's and beyond.
Ramsey would have stepped down after the 1974 World Cup or possibly before and part of the reason that he was sacked was the fact that the FA knew that the next World Cup in 1978 would be held in Argentina and the FA did not want Ramsey in charge in 1978 given the aftermath of the 1966 QF and the bad publicity in 1970 when he refused to speak to Mexican journalists and get the Mexican support
Amazing that Shilton played with both Bobby Moore and Paul Gasgoine for England.
He was England keeper for 20 years: 1970 to 1990. But there was a long period when he wasn't no.1 in favour of Ray Clemence.
What was Cloughie thinking? Interesting to see Jimmy Hill calls it 100% right
Not the last mistake Cloughie would make about Poland in 1973...🤦🏼♂️
David Coleman proving once again that he was the greatest all -round sports commentator. He had no peers.
Remember rushing home from school to watch this game.sitting with my older brother on our leather sofa. Sticking to it as it was warm is h day..gutted when we lost but assured we would win the return game. So wrong..
Great upload, sadly this would be the end of Bobby Moore and England, his error leading to the second goal.
JH predicting defeat and failure to qualify... always a legend! Hi to Sunderland!
This was Grandstand theme for a few years in the early seventies!
It didn't exactly stick in the public consciousness!
Nope! Often forgotten!
Great stuff! Thank you so much for sharing :-)
Bob Wilson a gentleman and on the ball! Cloughie: 🤦🏻♂️ got it all wrong in his analysis! Wow! Hill gets one over on Cloughie for once!
The original 1973 Wednesday afternoon/early evening Special Edition Grandstand broadcast started at 2:25pm with live coverage of The Derby from Epsom (covering only The Derby itself race start 3:35pm) (ITV being the only channel to cover the full race meeting with the races bookending The Derby as well as the race itself) in the middle is Children's programmes (The Top Cat/Boss Cat episode the $1m Derby) and the News and a early/shortened Nationwide splitting up the programme going into this match this World Cup Grandstand section of the programme starting at 5:15pm with the match itself kicking off at 5:30pm UK time the programme finishing at 8pm with Boxing (The European Amateur Championship from Bulgaria) and a re-run of the Derby
Brilliant this. I think this match kicked off while I was still at school because I rushed home to see it but missed the start. Great upload
According to the BBC Genome site, the World Cup Grandstand programme started at 17.15 so given the fifteen minutes of preamble we see here, the match would have kicked off at 17.30 our time (18.30 in Poland).
Bobby Moore 1966 WC winning captain and Peter Shilton who played in the 1990 WC semi final against West Germany in the same England team!
This is sensational. Thank you.
Is it just me....or was football coverage more enjoyable back in these days. I'm absolutely enthralled by these discussions where as now, studio analysis seems dull.
Funny that David Colman says that overcrowding and blocked aisles would 'never be tolerated in England'. This was a full 16 years before Hillsborough!
Happy days folks!
Jimmy hill got stick but he knew his stuff and could be impartial....
I was eight years old in 1974 when England were absent from the World Cup. Sad to think I collected the football cards. :(
Remember to that you could get a few England players in the yellow strip from this match down the side of the Poland team.
Nice one, thanks! I thought most of the experts on English side were just like Brian Claugh re: Poland
600,000 applications for tickets echoes the 750,000 who applied for Hungary v England in June 1981.
Sir Alf got it badly wrong that night - the players underperformed dreadfully. Ramsey picked a defensively framed side and in doing so he lacked the attacking power to come back when Poland went ahead.
Look at the players Ramsey could have chosen from and look at the selection. He had Bowles/Worthington/Currie/Marsh/Hudson...and a lot more, yet he chose this turgid team. Only half that team were worthy of a place. Ramsey was a manager out of time.....and that time was soon up.
@spanish peaches, Perhaps Ramsey's biggest mistake was his blind loyalty to Bobby Moore - who clearly could no-longer play at this level. He even admitted that had England reached the World Cup Finals, Moore would have been the captain.
Prophetic comments by Cloughie about amateurs. Poland go on to become a significant international power for the next 15 years
edmowl cloughie tried to say that England should not be too cautious against the amateur Poland side.
that Poland side will be the third placed in the 1974WC.
In Poland back then, as throughout the Eastern Bloc, players were only registered as workers of whichever factory or public service owned the club, other than that they trained like pros.
@@jakubwidlarz Shamateurs as they were known
And England would go on to fail to qualify for 3 of the next 6 World Cups.
Hi there, a few years ago you had the 1974 FIFA World Cup preview uploaded here but it got deleted. Do you have this preview anywhere else uploaded maybe?
Jimmy Hill's first BBC appearance in a England game since the 1966 World Cup QF
Jimmy Hill's first BBC apperience was in the European Cup Final a few days early
@@richardsharpe2966hanks that answered my question about that 3 week period between England v Scotland which was his last game for ITV and this game which was exclusive to the BBC
@@darren2514fv ironically Clough went to ITV as a pundit after this game. With regards to Jimmy Hill i read somewhere the reason he went to the BBC was he was in a taxi in Birmingham one day whilst at ITV and the cabbie asked him was he still on TV (bearing in mind the big match wasnt shown in Birmingham) And his ego got the better of him and he realised he was no longer a national personality. Dont know how true it is...
A competitive qualifier away from home against foreign opposition being shown live, hard to imagine nowadays what a very unusual experience this was in the days of three live games a season (FA Cup Final, England v Scotland and the European Cup Final). With the return game in October also screened live, it was some years before an England qualifier was screened live again (the WC qualifiers in 1980/1981 possibly?).
Don't go further: the return leg of this very game was shown live on ITV. And the one against Italy, for the 1978 WC, was shown too.
@@YeOldeFootballChannel I mentioned the return game being shown live. The qualifier against Italy in 1976 wasn't shown live. The BBC covered the game as I can always recall David Coleman's commentary for the goals but the BBC Genome site shows nothing in the BBC1 schedule on the 17th November 1976 of it being shown live and as I recall, for some reason it was played at something like two o'clock in the afternoon as I can remember being at school when it was being played. For Sportsnight later that evening, the Genome site mentions 'exclusive' coverage so ITV didn't cover it nor was it shown on BBC2. genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1976-11-17
@@martinkelly6709 I meant the return leg on Wembley in 1977.
@@YeOldeFootballChannel Ah, I get you now and apparently according to this site www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamMedia/Television/TV1975-80.htm. the BBC showed the Finland away WC qualifier in June 1976 live. According to that site, the home qualifier against Italy in 1977 was only given permission to be shown live as it was a sell out.
Watching ‘live’ away European club or International games back in the 70s was a magical experience. No pundits regurgitating the same old analysis and shouting over each other.
I dont suppose, Ye Olde Football, that you would have the pre and post studio analysis of this game and the rematch at Wembley?
The after match footage exists of Clough still insisting that Tomaszewski was a clown goalkeeper and Brian Moore fronting him down about it. It sums up the arrogant & misplaced sense of superiority that people like Clough & Malcolm Allison exuded at that time. Result? Failure to qualify for 2 successive World Cups.
Always thought Gorgon was a great name for a big central defender.
Yeah, sounds like some mythological beast.
Good centre half he was,giant of a man.
I remember Hugh John's at Wembley in the return fixture calling him the walking telegraph pole😂
The table was a board with a camera pointing at it
Looking at that England team it's no wonder they messed up..subs weren't much better...Where's Kevin Hector ?
What was this theme tune called that Grandstand used for a time in the 1970's would like to know please and can you get a copy of it on you tube please
Yes, the long forgotten 2nd Grandstand theme, dropped for the final familiar theme in 1974,i think.
I’m not actually sure of the title of this second Grandstand theme written by Barry Stoller used from 13th November 1971 until 18th October 1975 (Grandstand’s 1000th edition)
Well Jimmy was prophetic there! This game was a turning point and affected England for the next decade.. Poland at that point was bottom, but look how it turned out!
The 'amateurs' went all the way and nearly won the whole thing, if not for losing to the hosts in the semi-final. They finished 3rd, beating Brazil in the 3/4 play off match.
Kinky Frank Bough 😂👍🏼
Wasn't this game suddenly moved to a different stadium from than the one that was planned.
Some England players said they felt uneasy seeing the stadium full of the Polish Army.
I always thought in response the FA should have moved the second match to Goodison Park which was often used by the FA in the 1970s.
Both Poland and German national teams always seemed lifted by playing at Wembley.
The defeat set England back years, despite some great players like Chivers, McFarland, Currie, and Bell.
This is something I always thought. A lot of foreign teams played in huge bowls of grounds, so when we played them we played them at the closest venue we had to that. We should have played them at tight grounds with the crowd right on top of them.
Never heard anything like that. Poland played many important matches in this stadium, basically all national home matches were played either there or in Warsaw. It's also BS what the commentator says about the attendance being 130,000. The official number is 73,714, but I think it could have been a few thousand more.
Unfortunately, some of Brian Clough's comments were something common: Malcolm Allison, then on Man City, said that Czechs and Romanians (in the 1970 World Cup) were a team of "peasants". The conception then was that all the teams beyond the Iron Curtain were rude, strong and mechanical. This, and the return leg (in which Clough infamously called Tomaszewski a "clown") were a reality check to some analysts and experts: England spent the next 11 years wandering for a place in the World Cup, and Poland became a powerhouse in European and World football until the mid 80s.
I don't think England deserved not to qualify in a major competition throughout the 70s. IMO a lot of the blame lies with the managers.
Ramsey and Revie were stuck in the '60s. They were obsessed with the type of disciplined footballer who simply followed orders.
They distrusted an entire generation of talented young players who did not fit into their plan (Marsh, Osgood, Worthington, George etc).
Perhaps this was a cultural issue as well. The FA snubbed managers with modern ideas, like Clough or Sexton.
Insularity seemed to affect the so-called "great minds" of sport during the 70's, as mentioned most notably the FA and whatever was the 1970's equivalent of Hockey Canada.
Αντωνης Παπ we were the best team in. 1970 World Cup ,
If it wasn't for banks illness we would have won it
And I think Poland were very fortunate at Wembley had we qualified we'd have been world champions in Germany 1974 no doubt
Do you have the ITV studio footage from the Clown game at all?
Lukas_Jay Absolutely. I’d love to see more than just the “clown” comment which is all they ever show
The rare early 70s theme which preceded the 1975 Keith Mansfield tune.
Peter Storey. How was he ever near a world cup team.
Jimmy Hill was absolutely spot on here. As sharp as a tack. Cloughie talking rubbish sadly.
Jimmy Hill spot on with his analysis. Cloudy was totally incorrect. It just shows you Clough was not always right and he said the same in the return match at Wembley when Poland qualified and knocked England out.
No one has ever accused Cloughie of always being right.
Jimmy Hill was “going to be sat there waving my Union Jack”. Just as they would be in Glasgow, Cardiff and parts of Belfast l assume.
Bang on, Cloughie 🤣
Funny how the caption says "Direct from the Slaski Stadium Katowice" rather than "Live from the Slaski Stadium Katowice". Perhaps the word "Live" was a bit too racy for the Beeb back in the day. I reckon Cloughie's views were a bit too racy as well, which is probably why ITV snapped him up to be Jimmy's replacement on The Big Match. And was this a midweek match? I half-expected the Sportsnight theme tune to be used.
It was a midweek match, as you say. But this is a special Grandstand edition, and also we had a Sportsnight later, with highlights of this game. I am sure Coleman didn't present it (perhaps Barry Davies?).
@@YeOldeFootballChannel According to Wikipedia (not always the most reliable source I know), Tony Gubba was the presenter of Sportsnight (from 1972-1975) when this game was played. David Coleman gave up presenting it in 1972. Harry Carpenter took over from Tony Gubba and did it for the next ten years.
Regarding your Direct and Live comment. A reasonable explanation for using the term 'Direct' in preference to 'Live' might be to underscore if a program was being both technically and physically presented direct from the locale. During the early to mid seventies the use of satellites in television broadcasting was extremely limited and, unlike the relatively direct Eurovision Link/Cable, technically far from Direct. My apologies if this was off point.
A youngish looking Frank Bough and various guests watching the match in London.
This remains one of the most abject performances I have ever watched of an England team. Not one shot on target. Alf had lost the plot by now. Moore was over the hill & he had Channon & Currie on the bench but refused to use either of them even when 2 down. It's good when videos like this emerge to show that Cloughie was no masterful genius and could spout utter bullshit like any other football pundit.
Good point about Clough Paul, though I can't help thinking that with what we now know about his alcoholism, the reason he made such controversial comments is because he was p&(£%d.
11:02, 11:19 for reference. Loved Cloughie but sometimes he suffered from foot-in-mouth disease
whiskey in mouth disease more like. Silly old fart.
The game that ended Bobby Moore's England career
Interesting footage. Jimmy Hill and Bob Wilson pretty much called this right and realised that Poland were a strong and dangerous team who could beat England. Cloughie was in "controversial, provocative" mode and way off the mark.
police in England wouldn't tolerate such safety measures... sadly, history went on to say otherwise
@Charlietwice It wasn't the case at the time either. My dad was at Orient v Birmingham City the year before and that was overcrowded. There were people watching from the floodlit pylons. Someone passed out and they were passed to the front over peoples' heads. Similar things happened at Wolves v Liverpool not that long after.
R W exactly. I was at the league cup final replay at hillsborough 1977 and people were being carried over head at the leaping lane end unconscious. Shows how wrong football commentators can be.
Sir Alf lost the services of Alan Ball during this match as he was sent off following a fracas.
And also importantly lost his services four months later for the Wembley return as he was suspended due to the sending off.
Around 2000 they played the sports theme at ua-cam.com/video/GaL5sOClpBc/v-deo.html in a BBC retro programme about 1970 and I thought it was the 1971 Grandstand theme. I didn't have UA-cam then to look for the actual 1971 Grandstand theme
.....I always got the impression that Cloughy never really rated Poland...lol...
Looking at this I have a feeling that dear old Brian Clough did not like Bob Wilson
I make you right. There's a video on UA-cam of Cloughie being interviewed by John Motson in about 1979 and BC is strongly making the point that the pundits on Match of the Day are lecturing us too much when analysing a game and turning us off from watching. At one point he says "You're treating us as though, you know we're in a classroom and a school teacher standing up there.....Bob's an ex school teacher isn't he?...."(seconds of silence and a roll of the eyes).
Seats ....no doubt concrete blocks a journey behind the iron curtain must have been a journey into the unknown.....great flame pots....Gorgon the giant blonde .....great name don't know if he was any good .....but Poland were got to 3rd in that world cup....
.....Peter Storey picked for his wallop factor.....
No, the UK police would never tolerate an overcrowded stadium. Would the David Coleman?
I'm sure everyone at this game returned home safely.
Look kids: everyone back then though Jimmy Hill had a long beard until he shaved it off! 😀😂👍🏻 I’m not going to write what the Fulham fans called Hill when he played for them as it might offend some.
I am french, So i didnt watch this show, but i remember Clough arrogance after last match 1-1: death of football, Tomaszewski clown ...100% wrong yes!I suppose plenty of people were laughing when the journalist said England could be eliminated after Warsaw defeat...
They should have showed Lubanski's goal against Rangers in the Cup Winners' Cup 1969/70:
ua-cam.com/video/eK2QkIwDdAk/v-deo.html
Or his solo goals from the semi finals against Roma in the same campaign.
England were a STRONG side then.Extreemly unlucky not to qualify especially in The return game at Wembley. Bad luck and bad refereeing cost us for 30 years!!
Do me a favour.
Hmmmm, watch that match again mate. The English so called penalty was never a penalty. If that wasn't a 50/50 shoulder barge then I don't know. Also the polish striker Lato went through one on one with shilton. Roy mc farland thought he was playing Rugby and dragged the pole back with 2 hands . Red card today only a yellow and a free kick outside the penalty box. But i get your point, England had plenty of chances in the match.
Unbelievable comment to start with that police in England will never allow overcrowding - hillsborough?
We had safety regulations in place. They just weren't followed. To this day, noone has been held to account for that.
@@duncanpriestley964 Fans should take their share of the responsibility. Turning up late ticketless and hoping the Police would let you in because they didn't want trouble was standard practice in the 80's.
I love these videos!!! England "trying" to relive her long gone glorious years......NO More!!!!!! Italy European Champions........
What are you talking about. England don't have an "glorious years" they won the world cup, once.
Clougie was insane, absolute shit talking. Just the whole arrogance of the pundits, Hill "why are we only playing two up front". Proper jumpers for goalposts bollocks.
Actually by his later standards I think Jimmy Hill was calling it pretty much right that day. Cloughie was after Alf's job so was going be portraying the Poles as little better than pub players so he could gloat about the defeat later. Marvellous eh!!
.....and thus we saw the end of the world....
That was the worst I have seen England play ....ever and that is saying something.
Brian got it all wrong
Love Cloughie but he was wrong about Poland there big time.
England were very very unlucky. Poland were dead lucky. 49 attempts on goal at Wembley!!
Garry Wood except this was the game at Poland not Wembley. Poland came 3rd in 74 World Cup.
I know l did say the return game
It wasn't just the defeat away to Poland that cost England their place in West Germany it was also the draw with Wales
Forget ALL the goal line clearances and saves and woodwork strikes ....WHAT WAS THAT GOAL DISALLOWED FOR?
How wrong was Clough
What happened to the game. Ffs
These Poles are amateurs 🤣🤣🤣 Sure Cloughie.
'Eyyyyeee don't think Poland would grace the World Cup, but I think we would'. Hmmmm.