I dont think that is balance problem. It seems more that they rushed certain things, because the frost wyrm having broken animations (randomly presenting the back, just walking foward and twking hits and other stuff) and Katarin sled only having "hitbox" on the front two horses arent balance problems, they are unfinished/broken
@@TaRAAASHBAGS probably. Although i wouldn't put the blame fully on CA as GW might have been partially to blame as these stuff had to pass trough them first due lore and stuff like that. And we know GW is horrible
@@rafalstGW isn't responsible for all the crap animations and model interaction. But the lore breaks, dumb roster additions, and nuhammer pandering? Yeah that's fully GW.
There has to be some kind of animation or hitbox fuckup going on because it loses so consistently against units with worse MA/MD and struggles to path through everything. Against the mutant rat ogre it didn't seem to be able to attack if it was on it's snout, but I didn't see that happening against other units. The animations seem to trigger, but I wonder where the enemy models have to be for it to actually deal damage.
Maybe his mass got fucked up? Usually mass is the stat that determines how easily you can pull an entity out of fight, but here he was stopped dead cold by rats...
@@IVIRnathanreilly Are we sure that animations really matter for damage? Because I've watched a lot of Ferzen duel videos and those monsters take damage even when they were the one doing the attack animation and disrupted the animation of the other unit.
Instead of nerfing the patriarchs healing capabilities instead CA just prenerfed the frostwyrm as a potential healing target. Great move from CA to make sure the patriarch double frostwyrm healing blob doesn't become OP ... oh wait.
The game has a huge problem with healing, the lizardmen are entirely limited by the slann of life, trying any other lord, is knowingly lowering your odds of winning.
While I'm hesitant to compare units in different races with a performance to price ration (units are priced based on the rest of their roster), when I did a test that had a frost wyrm lose to an empire SWORDSMEN unit, I realized something was off.
@@TequilaSunsetVids Probably the same thought process behind "let's make the anti-large creature anti-inf now, even though the Elemental Bear exists". I wish I could work at CA, your decision-making can actively be damaging the company in the long run as long as the video game monsters look pretty enough to sell a couple extra DLC copies to the hapless.
@@SupercohboyIf you mean the Elemental Incarnate of Beasts or the Mutalith Vortex Beasts, then them having anti large was the weirdest thing. They were good against everything. Anti large versus other single entities and a mortis engine against infantry. The anti large needed to go.
@@quint3ssent1a an overpriced, haggeredly animated and extra weird support monster ... you could say frost wyrm is also a support monster with frost bite ... which wouldn't make it better on the kislev roster. XD
@@nepnep8382 his main gimmick (stalk aura ) is hard to price correctly. After that, he has three okay-ish bound spells... maybe not the value engine, but he has uses.
That's why Cavalry sucks also because knocked down entities don't take damage. It's in better spot I must admit, but still far from Medieval 2 or ATTILA feeling of charge.
@RealGooGooRadio-xu5xtDepends. In multilplayer yes, cavalry is usefull and can win you battles. In Singleplayer? That's a lot harder. Sure, you can make good use of cavalry if you micro super hard (especially when playing Bretonnia), but usually they're just shot to pieces or drowned in anti-large infantry and single entities. There's a reason why people don't build cavalry doomstacks - they're not very effective.
@@HH-hd7ndI find anything more then 6 Calvary units is impossible to manage even at that point the rest of your army better be mostly self sufficient. Box with arrows and forget about it kinda thing. I find guns not to bad especially if you take precautions and lead with shields. Stone skin and other DR spells are super good for closing the gap.
it makes me sad that CA doesn’t have any mega nerd employees who play the shit out of the game. That was the industry standard when i was a kid in the early 2000s - not just at CA, also thinking of the Bungie team who played Halo. All the developers were super-sweats with a freakish passion for every corner of the game. CA just always feels like the opposite, no matter how many new units they plug in
The problem here is absurd deadlines. The thing being half finished with janky animations and absurd balance has little to do with whether the devs play the game or not. I guarantee you they were either aware of the issue or so overworked it doesn't really matter if they were or not.
I have no idea why they added the Frost Wyrm beyond eye candy. It does look awesome, but Kislev already has the elemental bear and cavalry to do whatever the Frost Wyrm was supposed to do.
They just decided that Mount Options should also be single entity monster you can take I Guess. Very likely that the Empire gets Feral Griffons in Thrones of Decay.
Its way better than elemental bear, it can get like 100k value in sieges even more if used well. It has insane anti infantry animation which makes it almost broken, but you have to use it well, because as soon as it gets left or gets targeted by missiles it dies fast. Charge it as chariot and you can wipe armies with it.
Something makes no fucking sense at all why didn't his attacks deal no damage at all against the clanrat spears? Its animations seemed very good for masses and it has a decent ATK stat and weapon strenght No, seriously, memes aside, what is it that isn't working? because it wasn't doing the shitty "walking towards the enemy" in all fights but it just deals less damage than units with worse stats and i can't explain it
Watch Legend of total war Kat stream where he used it in siege. Its pretty op. In this video he left it alone and didnt micro it at all, which is death sentence. It needs to charge around like chariot.
This isn't the first unit to have this problem, I've watched in pain as Cold One Riders, Hero units, the Elemental Bear, etc sit there and twerk on the enemy but don't actually attack, or worse, attack and deal 0 damage with far-superior stats.
The only thing it's good for is a "cheap" source of terror. In terms of buffing it, I think they need to increase its speed (yes more), it's mass, and give it the Elemental Bear's breath attack. It's a Wyrm for goodness sake, it needs a breath attack. Near everything else on their roster is hybrid.
a breath attack is better than no breath attack but its also one of the reasons elemental bear is so boring. It just feels like a big, clunky, land-bound dragon. Imo it would be much better if they added more exciting unit abilities than "stay out of combat to kill 2 models"
@@Louiseholm Imo it would be more thematically appropriate if the Frost Wyrm received the Elemental Bear's breath attack and the regular elemental bear got a nerfed Heart of Winter style active AoE attack, with the RoR keeping the full-blast Heart of Winter ability, with maybe a slight aoe size buff or something to make it feel like a real RoR. The Wyrm could then, with some other tweaks, become the "cheapo grounded dragon" that it's trying to be, while the Bear would become an even better counter to tar pits and inf raves. They could of course rebalance the unit costs and stats as required afterwards and Kislev would have a much better roster for it.
It seems like the frost wyrm should have immune to flanking with how often it does tail swipe animations. I still don't think that would make it good, but it would slightly mitigate one of its issues.
Neither do Snow Leopards. This thing is in the same "realm" as snow leopards; it's not human and not an elemental, so it doesn't get By Our Blood but doesn't suffer from DoT at low leadership either. An alright trade-off; imo Kislev's fauna should get Frenzy by default so that they have something interesting as a passive, but oh well, Snow Leopards are already pretty good so they probably don't need innate Frenzy.
It's a monster. By Our Blood is supposed to represent the resilience and determination that has allowed Kislev to exist as a bulwark against Chaos. A wild creature doesn't really get affected by cultural factors such as this.
The only point to Frost Wyrms I found was they are a faster source of siege attacker than Little Grom. Also with it being available from a tier 3 building, the only one that Kislev gets in its roster that can be recruited without a main city, which they don't get in their heartland outside of the big 3 cities. Only reason I'd want to use them in campaign, and would immediately start trading them out for Little Groms once I hit tier 4 buildings. Or if I get alliances with empire or dwarfs I'd look to hire cheap artillery from them and skip this thing. Another problem is that they don't stack well together. They get in each others way and block their movement and attack animations and make them targets.
I have seen Legend wipe 2 full armies with it as he used it as chariot, and he even almost got it killed by his mistake. If used properly the thing can get 100k dmg easily.
Easy fix - give it a missile attack, similar to the Ancient Salamander, only it imbues Frostbite instead of Flammable. Run it around early game sniping & slowing enemy units, thus giving your other missile troops more time to shoot, then charge it in late game for Terror routs - simple enough to implement, & fits in nicely with the 'combined arms' approach of most Kislev units. Sh*t, the Wyrm practically uses the same rig as the Ancient Sally... so, you can't tell me it wouldn't be possible to add a frosty spit animation? At the moment, it's just a worse Elemental Bear... what a waste of a unit!
I was trying to think of a fix that would fit it well, yet not make it completely overpowered. I think this is the best answer by far. It makes perfect sense for a hybrid focused faction, and would likely make the price point and melee stats not need changing at all
Imagine a world in which CA actually play tested new content and balance patches, wouldn't that be something... Remember everyone, almost all the balancing issues in this game is a database issue that would at most take an hour maybe 2 to fix them, but i guess we'll need to wait for another 3 months for a hotfix cause remember costs are up...
Yikes... needs better dueling animation targeting, way more mass, and a breath attack. That being said, in campaign at least it's probably ok that the only order faction in the old world with a tier 3 giant monster has a kind of sub-par one.
The Skaven kind. They have 30 armor in the form of some shoddy shoulder pauldron thingies and a thick hide, don't forget. And these are the most minimalist cyborgs possible, keep in mind, we can't expect the Skaven to make any sort of curated masterpiece of engineering. Imo their armor should be bumped up to 50+ to compensate for TW:WH3's balance, but I digress. Thematically and in-lore their low armor stat does make sense, let's be honest. The only Skaven that get any real armor are the most elite guards in their entire civilization, their very-expensive-to-replace super-monsters, and the occasional frontline war machine (which iirc are used in relatively small numbers, which seems to speak to the Skaven's constant metal shortages). Even the Mutant Rat Ogre isn't enough of a monster to deserve more than a minimalist covering of armor, not when the meat can be replaced so much more easily than the armor could. Or at least that's probably the Skaven's rationale.
@BloodwyrmWildheart but dem rat be cheapy and stingy tho. Beside its rRat cuture is to let others die for you. Glass canon kna mean? Do damage but don't come alive okay?
Look at the size of the control arrow when the unit is selected lmao the frost wymn probably has the collision hitbox of the dread saurian with a 3rd of the mass
I expected the thing to have a breath attack or a frost aura like the phoenix... Having at least one of the two could've given one pause to think about using it... But he's got neither. It's like CA made the Frost Wyrm by looking at Warhammer 1 balance notes >
They take one step forward, trip themselves, come falling down to the floor, then spend some time plugging their ears going "LALALA IM FINE LEAVE ME ALONE" before eventually dusting themselves off to do it all over again. I don't know why people keep expecting anything different from these people, they had a lucky streak during TW:WH2 and they blew it by firing a bunch of the talent that made WH2 succeed, but retaining all the bad management that has been a cancer on the company for years. Until upper management changes and that Freeman asshole is also fired, I'm never giving these people money again. Especially not after Steam decided to gatekeep all the mods by walling off their fucking Workshop garbage and CA did nothing to help out Total War owners who purchased their game on other storefronts. Apparently Steam users are 1st-class citizens and everyone else can shove it and spin, I'm sick of this crap. 1 year later and I still regret my purchase decision, Immortal Empires is fun and cool but it got old in less than 200 hours. That's sad for a game selling itself as an incredible sandbox worth pouring 1000s of hours into.
There's gotta be some kind of animation or hitbox issue with them because looking at their stats, whilst kind of mid for their price, they shouldn't be doing that badly. I think CA mostly need to make up their mind on whether this is supposed to be anti-infantry or a duelist, and then modify their stats accordingly. If they want it mulching infantry, then it's gonna need more mass and more WS and maybe they need to take another look at what is considered a flank or rear attack against it since the model is like 90% flanks, so one of the reasons why its doing so bad might be enemy units getting a lot of cheap shots in. If they want it dueling, it's gonna need more MA/MD and they're gonna need to clean it's animations and AI a little. I think the issue where it kept on pushing against the rat ogre happens because the game considers how far another unit is away based on center mass and thinks that something at the head of the wyrm is still too far away to hit.
They should give it a constant damage per second area of effect similar to the bastilodon arc of sotek or heart of winter spell except the damage is toned down and it has infinite duration
Frost wyrms are pretty hilariously large for their relative power level, I guess it's to help them be more distinct looking compared to brood horrors/ancient sallys but it really doesn't do them any favors in combat and makes them appear more threatening than they're meant to be in the first place
Yeah the animations are broken, especially into infantry where a lot of damage is wasted. Collision attacks at least give it anti-infantry applications but it looks like it might need some additional buffs beyond that.
So it just needs some stat changes and someone to check it's hit boxes. okay. so? it's Total War Warhammer, name one unit that hasn't undergone various changes or was broken on launch?
This makes so much sense! I built some frost wyrms in my stream earlier but they got absolutely dumpstered and I didn't know why. Guess I won't be building them again. Thanks for the video!
I only use the wyrm ones agains WoC just as a katharyn mount, as a fast mount to fight single entitys with deathfrost is not thar bad! As a monster....is trash hahaha
When I read their stats I thought they would be a cheap monster that doesn't have any real advantage but is cheap. after seeing their animations and models and the price...They are garbage hahaha this video is awesome love when you make this type of video dude
Wow Kislev really got just mid/trash in this update. This and the underwhelming lore of hags make the kislevite warriors the valuable thing we got in the update. A TIER 1 UNIT is better value than the really cool looking frost wyrm. And I really wanted to use this as a mount for Katarin😭. Hopefully they patch something about it and I'm now given yet another reason to wait for this DLC to go on sale.
It barely scratched clan rat spears but is putting a dent into swordmasters of hoeth… how? Why? I know the clan rats had spears but come on that bizarre.
The best part in my opinion? On Campaign you're still gonna take this thing because it's the first Siege Attacker you get. Sure you'll have to give them heavy Patriarch support, and throw AoE magic to clear armies, but neither of those are too difficult as Kislev since you're probably already focusing on those characters as they're the most cost effective and provide the most campaign benefits. So we have an overpriced damage sponge of a centerpiece monster propped up by heroes, that, for as cool as it looks you only bring because the Dwarfs and Empire refuse to build their artillery buildings or give you alliances so you're forced to break your economy to hold back all of Chaos. At least they make a decent tarpit for spells and arrows, just to make Armored Kossars MORE irrelevant.
Either frostwyrm is missing its cleave(or the damage on it has been divided by 100, CA loves doing that for some reason), or it's meant to be purely formation disrupting support monster instead of a standalone unit. The animations clearly show it has large area attacks so it should be anti blob.
Yeah, to me the length of that breath attack on the charge implies that you're supposed to use it to charge into the side of enemy infantry that's already engaged with your own infantry and the fact that it doesn't penetrate far into the enemy formation and it can turn on a dime during it's 'coiling up' animation suggests that you're supposed to pull it back to charge again instead of running _through_ to charge again.
this game really needs a LARGE monster that doesn't get taken down fast by range units, it would be nice to have something in your army that can deal with range units and the enemy player would be force to have a monster on it which will take some time to beat it, cause usually game goes just send range units on big targets and its a easy out. so they could change the game up with this unit forcing players to put a big unit on it to remove it or strong elite infantry since it would have really good missile resistance. it should be a unique monster if people target it with range units or send a monster that isnt anti large on it they should be punished!, they should give it more missile resistance and more armor. if they do this it will keep the frost wyrm more unique and not just give it more damage to fix things etc.... frost wyrm needs more: -mass -more armor -more missile resistance. give it like 45 % missile resistance. this way its not that great vs toe to toe fights and just being which monster is better to pick it option it would have some actual strategy to it! since it would have high missile fire resistance and more armor and mass it could do really well vs range units making it last longer up front or at taking hits and if the enemy wants to ignore your frost wyrm you can send it on the range units!, so the frosty wyrm won't win in a straight up fight but it is something that will force your enemy to have to take it out first if they want their range units to be alive. or range units can fire at it but! then the player with range units will be punished since the monster has a high range resistance.
You use the thing so badly... Its chariot not a monster. You need to have him constantly charge with his slither animation, the one when he slides on ice, he becomes basicly a chariot and if used properly can deal a lot of dmg in one charge. Very useful as mount or in single player, just micro him and abuse his insane animation and you get your money back.
my man, if you want a big tanky, damage dealing monster, choose the bear that is already there. this monster isn't supposed to win 1v1 on duels or massacre entire armys on it's own, this wyrm is fast as fuck and when played correctly can cause a lot of destruction and distraction. then again, you clearly can't play and thats why you cry about it
I'm gonna play devil's advocate and hypothesising two things : 1) Out of the three scenarios that happens on any new unit release (OP as hell, bottom garbage and "meh, it's okay"), he Wyrm clearly got dealt the worst set of cards and needs additionnal patches to be made viable. 2) The Wyrm's supposed role in the Kislevite roster is to act like the Kroxigors for the Skinks : an anti-infantry support to the (mostly) hybridised based Kislevite army. What i mean regarding the second hypothesis is that the Wyrm, as a monstruous unit, isn't so much supposed to act as a direct killer and instead as an AOE knockbacker for the hybrid Kislevite infantry to take on an kill the ennemy units that get flown accross at the frontline. Considering how extremly wide the Wyrm's attacks are for how slim it's model is, i'd wager that it's a monstruous units that is supposed to stick to infantry (whereas the Bear act as a wrecking ball.) Considering how low tiers of a monstruous entity it is to recruit and the proximity of Kislev to Chaos based faction (notable for having very potent melee units), my guess is that the Wyrm is really supposed to act as a melee disrupter that allow the Kislev infantry to shoot and slash the models that are flown their way. At least, that's what i hypothesise. Now for the execution...
@@artemgushin5228 lmao sure. Along Warhammer2's lifecycle it took them that long to release hotfix patches and we still have some bugs from Warhammer2 in Warhammer3! If you think CA prioritizes fixing you are delusional.
So one thing i will say is that units are supposed to be evaluated based on a holistic picture of the faction theyre in, not individual duels. That said, im not really sure what the frost wurm offers to kislev...
idk one time i had to fight 4 of these in one army, I was Chaos dwarfs with blunderbusses andinfernal guard ( regular variant) and the wyrms broke through the lines perfectly normal. Now id would have probably been differnet if i had great weapon variant.
there charge animation makes it look like they reused the dragon lords from Carthy for there models, animations and everything else. Like there flying/clipping through the dirt
in fairness, they did decent against anti-infantry infantry, dont put them against large things and have something support them and they are fine really
This has been an issue since total warhammer 1 : HIDDEN STATS! Unit scales/Hit-boxs :Obviously the key issue here where they're easy to surround and impossible to miss with even the most stupid windup animations. Unit mass: This is one that when not scaled properly means big units get stuck stupid easy, it's the whole 'pathing through' issue. Both CA and the god-aweful autoresolve system doesn't seem to account for these. The amount of times 'bad' monsters like the mutant rat-ogres can sneak out victories because of their size against larger targets shouldn't be underestimated, they tend to land at least one attack when charging back in after being knocked back while the big cool looking unit is still doing their raid boss 'OH HERE IT COMES' bullshit. Monsters have needed more transparent stats since 2 at the latest since lizardmen had so many on release.
I feel like they could be fixed by a simple A.I. tweak + some new moves. 1. Turn the charge attack into a ranged attack. 2. Stop them from walking at the target that's in range. 3. Stop them from spinning and showing back. 4. Make them capable of charging through other units without getting netted.
Its always sad to see ca add monsters that turn their back to the enemy poor carnos had this from launch wh2 and it always made them way worse than they should have been.
...Wyrm 2 2:20... why exactly are you clicking through the main mass of clanrats instead of that clearly visibile bit with literally two dudes? EDIT: Wyrm 4, lots of animation bugs.
This is the mental state of someone who invested a lot into Frost Wyrms because they looked cool, but after losing a couple battles thought "Hey, wait a minute...no...No...NO...IT CAN'T BE!" As for me, a Thrawn enjoyer, I'd wonder at how effective Frost Wyrms are against indirect artillery, and if they would be better than cavalry at sniping them, due to the combination of speed and health points. The Frost Wyrm is faster than things that could outright kill it, but has enough health to tank things that could outrun it. It could be a valuable partisan unit, but that would require testing. Sadly, it would be limited only to indirect fire artillery, as I don't think they can win against dwarf organ guns, ratling guns, or walking ships. But, if it's fast enough to dodge artillery and get around the front line, maybe it can cut off the enemy's artillery support. So...part 2?
This wouldn't be half as irritating if there weren't any technical faults at work. But things like units getting absolutely stuck/netted, animations being the worst, knock over damage immunity, etc. Did Shogun 2 release 12 years ago now? Back then units were simpler and the combat system was also different (and a lot more enjoyable). So most of these issues doesn't exist for them. But here comes Warhammer, with a crapton of cheap, but expensive DLC, yet with a combination of broken engine, incompetent devs and greedy, greedy publisher. Unfortunately I pretty much had to stop playing the game because DLC value got so low that I'm not buying it, but on the other hand I don't want to feel like a second class citizen when I play a game and can't use half the units because of paywalls. So screw this, I'm playing Shogun 2 instead.
Sounds less like its the unit itself, rather then fact that CA doesnt do proper tests. Mass should be increased and the whole "walking into the creature rather then fighting" thing needs to be addressed. That being said, I feel like your comparisons with the jabberslythe is kinda unfair. considering the jabberslythe is a tier 4 monster that costs 1750 that ALSO has anti-infantry. The Ice wyrm wasn't meant to be a late game monster like the gabberslythe, its more meant for mid-game (and as an optional mount for that ice witches). That being said I mostly agree with the other tests. I do agree that they are in need of a solid buff, specifically a physical resist because as of now it is the only kislev monster without a physical resist (EVEN THE SNOW LEOPARD has 20% physical resist). Although considering that CA forgor to even give them the basic wounds trait, that's prevalent on all single entities. I think we can all agree that its a bit rushed.
Its crazy that this is a 10 minute video. It takes 10 minutes to notice that one of your flagship units for your re-release of a faulty dlc is so extremely flawed. It seems nobody works at CA to do quality control. Or maybe they just don’t care inuff. 2 years and I have yet to purchase a single piece of dlc for warhammer 3 but I have to say. Tekken 8 and baldurs gate 3 are great though CA must not like money I guess 🤷♂️
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Frost Wyrms are meant to fight other Frost Wyrms only... true specialist units
and even then they lose
10/10 times it’s a draw, both players are losers. 😂😂
A true jack of no trade unit. Specializes in nothing and is garbage at everything. You live to see it.
@@bernhard7087 Frost wyrms vs Frost wyrm, ofc they lose. This must be an attempt at humour (or just another stupid american)
Pretty sure it can easily handle a single unit of skavenslave slingers. Not all units can do that. (Looking at you Bretonnian Monty Phython lovers)
CA's idea of balance is releasing broken OP stuff alongside terrible useless stuff.
i guess somethings never changes
I dont think that is balance problem. It seems more that they rushed certain things, because the frost wyrm having broken animations (randomly presenting the back, just walking foward and twking hits and other stuff) and Katarin sled only having "hitbox" on the front two horses arent balance problems, they are unfinished/broken
@@rafalst so business as usual
@@TaRAAASHBAGS probably. Although i wouldn't put the blame fully on CA as GW might have been partially to blame as these stuff had to pass trough them first due lore and stuff like that. And we know GW is horrible
@@rafalstGW isn't responsible for all the crap animations and model interaction.
But the lore breaks, dumb roster additions, and nuhammer pandering? Yeah that's fully GW.
There has to be some kind of animation or hitbox fuckup going on because it loses so consistently against units with worse MA/MD and struggles to path through everything. Against the mutant rat ogre it didn't seem to be able to attack if it was on it's snout, but I didn't see that happening against other units. The animations seem to trigger, but I wonder where the enemy models have to be for it to actually deal damage.
Same kind of problem that Katarin sled has, except on katarin it makes her stronger
An attack animation shouldn't be able to miss, only the attack roll should miss.
Animations should be visual only. It's actively harming gameplay.
Maybe his mass got fucked up? Usually mass is the stat that determines how easily you can pull an entity out of fight, but here he was stopped dead cold by rats...
Definitely, just like the Cathay dragons those animations look great, but they take way too long and are super fiddly with actually connecting!
@@IVIRnathanreilly Are we sure that animations really matter for damage? Because I've watched a lot of Ferzen duel videos and those monsters take damage even when they were the one doing the attack animation and disrupted the animation of the other unit.
It doesn't even have "Wounds"...
Okay that’s weird
🤔🤔🤔🤔
Wait for a next patch 😁😁
Classic CA
It can get worse
For as big as his AoE attacks are, he sure doesn’t do shit for damage lol
That's most likely due to how splash damage works (where damage is spread out against multiple targets). Could be some math issues too though.
Instead of nerfing the patriarchs healing capabilities instead CA just prenerfed the frostwyrm as a potential healing target. Great move from CA to make sure the patriarch double frostwyrm healing blob doesn't become OP ... oh wait.
The game has a huge problem with healing, the lizardmen are entirely limited by the slann of life, trying any other lord, is knowingly lowering your odds of winning.
@@Lallunalapruna123we all remember peak undead. At least healing doesn't rez models.
the game is pissbaby easy on legendary very hard if you dont gimp yourself anyways just play what's fun@@Lallunalapruna123
@@Lallunalapruna123 just because you cant live without healing doesnt mean its the only way to play
@@thomascheng579 you'd be giving yourself a huge handicap for no reason. Its CAs fault for making 1 lord type so much better than the other options.
While I'm hesitant to compare units in different races with a performance to price ration (units are priced based on the rest of their roster), when I did a test that had a frost wyrm lose to an empire SWORDSMEN unit, I realized something was off.
Sounds like an issue for the first patch. It's a shame because they do look really cool.
Frost Wyrm is extremely bad. In fact, it's so horrible that it loses ~50% of the time to the worst unity in the game, Frost Wyrm ^_^
the main cause is his hitbox is a whopping 10, most monsters his size are around 4-5. that fix alone would help a lot
i'm trying to imagine the thought process behind that decision but i've got nothing
just a big ol' oopsy
@@TequilaSunsetVids Probably the same thought process behind "let's make the anti-large creature anti-inf now, even though the Elemental Bear exists".
I wish I could work at CA, your decision-making can actively be damaging the company in the long run as long as the video game monsters look pretty enough to sell a couple extra DLC copies to the hapless.
Maybe a mass hike too?
@@SupercohboyIf you mean the Elemental Incarnate of Beasts or the Mutalith Vortex Beasts, then them having anti large was the weirdest thing. They were good against everything. Anti large versus other single entities and a mortis engine against infantry. The anti large needed to go.
Coatl: "Finally a worthy opponent, our battle will be legendary!"
Couatl always was a support monster.
@@quint3ssent1a an overpriced, haggeredly animated and extra weird support monster ... you could say frost wyrm is also a support monster with frost bite ... which wouldn't make it better on the kislev roster. XD
@@nepnep8382 his main gimmick (stalk aura ) is hard to price correctly. After that, he has three okay-ish bound spells... maybe not the value engine, but he has uses.
@@quint3ssent1a would be nice if the aura was bigger or if he could stalk himself
Hey Coatls are super good :P very underrated
It really needs to be fixed that Single entities who get knocked over don't take damage. That makes NO sense whatsoever.
That's why Cavalry sucks also because knocked down entities don't take damage. It's in better spot I must admit, but still far from Medieval 2 or ATTILA feeling of charge.
@@CapybaraConnoisseur89 I always win with cavalry easily
@RealGooGooRadio-xu5xtDepends. In multilplayer yes, cavalry is usefull and can win you battles.
In Singleplayer? That's a lot harder. Sure, you can make good use of cavalry if you micro super hard (especially when playing Bretonnia), but usually they're just shot to pieces or drowned in anti-large infantry and single entities.
There's a reason why people don't build cavalry doomstacks - they're not very effective.
@@HH-hd7ndI find anything more then 6 Calvary units is impossible to manage even at that point the rest of your army better be mostly self sufficient. Box with arrows and forget about it kinda thing. I find guns not to bad especially if you take precautions and lead with shields. Stone skin and other DR spells are super good for closing the gap.
@@CapybaraConnoisseur89 1-800-Skarbrand???
it makes me sad that CA doesn’t have any mega nerd employees who play the shit out of the game. That was the industry standard when i was a kid in the early 2000s - not just at CA, also thinking of the Bungie team who played Halo. All the developers were super-sweats with a freakish passion for every corner of the game. CA just always feels like the opposite, no matter how many new units they plug in
No, games in 2000s weren't balanced at all, they were even worse at it
@@arthurschopenhauer292 source: my ass
@@arthurschopenhauer292 Wrong. Some games in 2000s gave you enough freedom to create complex broken strategies which was half the fun. It was great!
Total War Warhammer 1 and 2 were peak, but yeah it seems to have slid off since then.
The problem here is absurd deadlines. The thing being half finished with janky animations and absurd balance has little to do with whether the devs play the game or not. I guarantee you they were either aware of the issue or so overworked it doesn't really matter if they were or not.
I have no idea why they added the Frost Wyrm beyond eye candy. It does look awesome, but Kislev already has the elemental bear and cavalry to do whatever the Frost Wyrm was supposed to do.
Relatively early game siege attacker.
MONEY LOL
Should have been a flying unit tbh.
They just decided that Mount Options should also be single entity monster you can take I Guess. Very likely that the Empire gets Feral Griffons in Thrones of Decay.
Its way better than elemental bear, it can get like 100k value in sieges even more if used well. It has insane anti infantry animation which makes it almost broken, but you have to use it well, because as soon as it gets left or gets targeted by missiles it dies fast. Charge it as chariot and you can wipe armies with it.
Something makes no fucking sense at all
why didn't his attacks deal no damage at all against the clanrat spears? Its animations seemed very good for masses and it has a decent ATK stat and weapon strenght
No, seriously, memes aside, what is it that isn't working? because it wasn't doing the shitty "walking towards the enemy" in all fights but it just deals less damage than units with worse stats and i can't explain it
The splash attacks are bugged. It's probably overkilling 1 unit instead of spreading its damage around.
Watch Legend of total war Kat stream where he used it in siege. Its pretty op. In this video he left it alone and didnt micro it at all, which is death sentence. It needs to charge around like chariot.
@@jarvee9407 siege is broken and shit, so I won't ever take anything showcased in a siege at face value
@@Amalvipls just charge the thing around to keep it using its sliding animation in land battle
This isn't the first unit to have this problem, I've watched in pain as Cold One Riders, Hero units, the Elemental Bear, etc sit there and twerk on the enemy but don't actually attack, or worse, attack and deal 0 damage with far-superior stats.
New niche for feral mammoths opened up: frost wyrms
The only thing it's good for is a "cheap" source of terror.
In terms of buffing it, I think they need to increase its speed (yes more), it's mass, and give it the Elemental Bear's breath attack. It's a Wyrm for goodness sake, it needs a breath attack. Near everything else on their roster is hybrid.
a breath attack is better than no breath attack but its also one of the reasons elemental bear is so boring. It just feels like a big, clunky, land-bound dragon. Imo it would be much better if they added more exciting unit abilities than "stay out of combat to kill 2 models"
@@Louiseholm Imo it would be more thematically appropriate if the Frost Wyrm received the Elemental Bear's breath attack and the regular elemental bear got a nerfed Heart of Winter style active AoE attack, with the RoR keeping the full-blast Heart of Winter ability, with maybe a slight aoe size buff or something to make it feel like a real RoR. The Wyrm could then, with some other tweaks, become the "cheapo grounded dragon" that it's trying to be, while the Bear would become an even better counter to tar pits and inf raves. They could of course rebalance the unit costs and stats as required afterwards and Kislev would have a much better roster for it.
This has to be animation/hit box issue no? Definitely could use a mass improvement though.
This has to be animation/hit box issue no? Definitely could use a mass improvement though.
@@LouiseholmAll bears should lose the breath attack and gain the RoR's huge area-effect bound frost spell (only one use ofc)
Everyone talks about powercreep but what about scalecreep, the Wyrm is same length as a Dread Saurian at TIER 3!
At least they keep my drinks cool.
*drink is hot, somehow*
It seems like the frost wyrm should have immune to flanking with how often it does tail swipe animations. I still don't think that would make it good, but it would slightly mitigate one of its issues.
Wait, this kislev unit doesn’t have by our blood?
It's elemental
@@tylerdurden376 It’s actually just a living creature! It’s breaks and runs away, doesn’t disintegrate like the elementals/daemons/undead.
@@Sleepingdruid37 oh thx
Neither do Snow Leopards. This thing is in the same "realm" as snow leopards; it's not human and not an elemental, so it doesn't get By Our Blood but doesn't suffer from DoT at low leadership either. An alright trade-off; imo Kislev's fauna should get Frenzy by default so that they have something interesting as a passive, but oh well, Snow Leopards are already pretty good so they probably don't need innate Frenzy.
It's a monster. By Our Blood is supposed to represent the resilience and determination that has allowed Kislev to exist as a bulwark against Chaos.
A wild creature doesn't really get affected by cultural factors such as this.
CA can't get out of thier own way. This update is a sad attempt at establishing bona fides....
The only point to Frost Wyrms I found was they are a faster source of siege attacker than Little Grom. Also with it being available from a tier 3 building, the only one that Kislev gets in its roster that can be recruited without a main city, which they don't get in their heartland outside of the big 3 cities. Only reason I'd want to use them in campaign, and would immediately start trading them out for Little Groms once I hit tier 4 buildings. Or if I get alliances with empire or dwarfs I'd look to hire cheap artillery from them and skip this thing. Another problem is that they don't stack well together. They get in each others way and block their movement and attack animations and make them targets.
That happens so much just running even 2 in a stack they find ways to glitch on each other and stop moving
I have seen Legend wipe 2 full armies with it as he used it as chariot, and he even almost got it killed by his mistake. If used properly the thing can get 100k dmg easily.
Not really related but kislev actually do have more teir 5 cities now, they patched it a while ago
It still hurts my soul seeing the mutant rat ogres getting tossed around like that.
Just the head of the Frost Wyrm is as big as them.
Are mutant rat ogres that bad. I'm pretty sure they are good just not a spamm them unit.
@@shadowtheif1015 I think they are pretty close to a meme unit in multiplayer, but I am not sure.
Easy fix - give it a missile attack, similar to the Ancient Salamander, only it imbues Frostbite instead of Flammable.
Run it around early game sniping & slowing enemy units, thus giving your other missile troops more time to shoot, then charge it in late game for Terror routs - simple enough to implement, & fits in nicely with the 'combined arms' approach of most Kislev units.
Sh*t, the Wyrm practically uses the same rig as the Ancient Sally... so, you can't tell me it wouldn't be possible to add a frosty spit animation? At the moment, it's just a worse Elemental Bear... what a waste of a unit!
And make it smaller, like the ancient Salamander.
It would still be big enough for a mount option
Yeah, its hybrid after all, and would fit good
I was trying to think of a fix that would fit it well, yet not make it completely overpowered. I think this is the best answer by far. It makes perfect sense for a hybrid focused faction, and would likely make the price point and melee stats not need changing at all
Or instead of a band-aid fix: Just make the animations have the impact they look like they should have.
That’s a good idea it would improve Kislev’s artillery game and playing into Kislev’s hybrid range fighting style.
Maybe if it had the Blizzard Aura of the Frostheart Phoenix. Extra speed and mass would also be helpful.
Imagine a world in which CA actually play tested new content and balance patches, wouldn't that be something... Remember everyone, almost all the balancing issues in this game is a database issue that would at most take an hour maybe 2 to fix them, but i guess we'll need to wait for another 3 months for a hotfix cause remember costs are up...
we could have had zmey gorynych, a multiheaded flying dragon, but we got icey noodle.
When turin showcased this he was talking about how it might change the meta while we watched it take 50% damage from basic gors... its tragic
He was talking about Mother Ostankya and her magic.Dont think he said anything about the Wyrm other than he is "cool" as a charger/disruptor unit.
He's a shill, so nothing really unexpected.
@@OathofthePeachGardenyou’re crazy
Yikes... needs better dueling animation targeting, way more mass, and a breath attack. That being said, in campaign at least it's probably ok that the only order faction in the old world with a tier 3 giant monster has a kind of sub-par one.
Need to increase the mass so it can charge through and give it some vortex abilites to help in the infantry fight.
Why don't mutant rat ogres have armour?
The hell kind of cyborg is that?
The Skaven kind.
They have 30 armor in the form of some shoddy shoulder pauldron thingies and a thick hide, don't forget. And these are the most minimalist cyborgs possible, keep in mind, we can't expect the Skaven to make any sort of curated masterpiece of engineering.
Imo their armor should be bumped up to 50+ to compensate for TW:WH3's balance, but I digress. Thematically and in-lore their low armor stat does make sense, let's be honest. The only Skaven that get any real armor are the most elite guards in their entire civilization, their very-expensive-to-replace super-monsters, and the occasional frontline war machine (which iirc are used in relatively small numbers, which seems to speak to the Skaven's constant metal shortages). Even the Mutant Rat Ogre isn't enough of a monster to deserve more than a minimalist covering of armor, not when the meat can be replaced so much more easily than the armor could. Or at least that's probably the Skaven's rationale.
@@Supercohboy Could just give them some physical resistance instead and explain it away as genetically-enhanced hide.
@BloodwyrmWildheart but dem rat be cheapy and stingy tho. Beside its rRat cuture is to let others die for you. Glass canon kna mean? Do damage but don't come alive okay?
norsca frost wyrm: Finally, a worthy opponent!
also give him a chance vs some empire and errant knights :(
It loses quite miserably against the artist formerly known as frost wyrm.
Look at the size of the control arrow when the unit is selected lmao the frost wymn probably has the collision hitbox of the dread saurian with a 3rd of the mass
I expected the thing to have a breath attack or a frost aura like the phoenix...
Having at least one of the two could've given one pause to think about using it... But he's got neither.
It's like CA made the Frost Wyrm by looking at Warhammer 1 balance notes >
They take one step forward, trip themselves, come falling down to the floor, then spend some time plugging their ears going "LALALA IM FINE LEAVE ME ALONE" before eventually dusting themselves off to do it all over again.
I don't know why people keep expecting anything different from these people, they had a lucky streak during TW:WH2 and they blew it by firing a bunch of the talent that made WH2 succeed, but retaining all the bad management that has been a cancer on the company for years. Until upper management changes and that Freeman asshole is also fired, I'm never giving these people money again. Especially not after Steam decided to gatekeep all the mods by walling off their fucking Workshop garbage and CA did nothing to help out Total War owners who purchased their game on other storefronts. Apparently Steam users are 1st-class citizens and everyone else can shove it and spin, I'm sick of this crap.
1 year later and I still regret my purchase decision, Immortal Empires is fun and cool but it got old in less than 200 hours. That's sad for a game selling itself as an incredible sandbox worth pouring 1000s of hours into.
They even forgot the Wounds that every single unit has in W3
There's gotta be some kind of animation or hitbox issue with them because looking at their stats, whilst kind of mid for their price, they shouldn't be doing that badly.
I think CA mostly need to make up their mind on whether this is supposed to be anti-infantry or a duelist, and then modify their stats accordingly.
If they want it mulching infantry, then it's gonna need more mass and more WS and maybe they need to take another look at what is considered a flank or rear attack against it since the model is like 90% flanks, so one of the reasons why its doing so bad might be enemy units getting a lot of cheap shots in.
If they want it dueling, it's gonna need more MA/MD and they're gonna need to clean it's animations and AI a little. I think the issue where it kept on pushing against the rat ogre happens because the game considers how far another unit is away based on center mass and thinks that something at the head of the wyrm is still too far away to hit.
Good, good. Now let's see them vs Cygors.
They should give it a constant damage per second area of effect similar to the bastilodon arc of sotek or heart of winter spell except the damage is toned down and it has infinite duration
In a alternate timeline we got the Chicken Hut or Hag Lord.
A literal dragon losing to a handful of rats is hilarious
It wishes it had the power of the feral mammoth
The chad rat ogre vs the virgin frost wyrm
Frost wyrms are pretty hilariously large for their relative power level, I guess it's to help them be more distinct looking compared to brood horrors/ancient sallys but it really doesn't do them any favors in combat and makes them appear more threatening than they're meant to be in the first place
Yeah the animations are broken, especially into infantry where a lot of damage is wasted. Collision attacks at least give it anti-infantry applications but it looks like it might need some additional buffs beyond that.
By the way: these battles are without it even having wounds, as CA forgot about it.
So it just needs some stat changes and someone to check it's hit boxes.
okay. so? it's Total War Warhammer, name one unit that hasn't undergone various changes or was broken on launch?
This makes so much sense! I built some frost wyrms in my stream earlier but they got absolutely dumpstered and I didn't know why. Guess I won't be building them again. Thanks for the video!
I only use the wyrm ones agains WoC just as a katharyn mount, as a fast mount to fight single entitys with deathfrost is not thar bad! As a monster....is trash hahaha
When I read their stats I thought they would be a cheap monster that doesn't have any real advantage but is cheap. after seeing their animations and models and the price...They are garbage hahaha this video is awesome love when you make this type of video dude
This video has the same energy as that ancient one about glocks being unreliable, just with the exact oppposite result.
Wow Kislev really got just mid/trash in this update. This and the underwhelming lore of hags make the kislevite warriors the valuable thing we got in the update. A TIER 1 UNIT is better value than the really cool looking frost wyrm. And I really wanted to use this as a mount for Katarin😭. Hopefully they patch something about it and I'm now given yet another reason to wait for this DLC to go on sale.
It barely scratched clan rat spears but is putting a dent into swordmasters of hoeth… how? Why? I know the clan rats had spears but come on that bizarre.
The best part in my opinion? On Campaign you're still gonna take this thing because it's the first Siege Attacker you get. Sure you'll have to give them heavy Patriarch support, and throw AoE magic to clear armies, but neither of those are too difficult as Kislev since you're probably already focusing on those characters as they're the most cost effective and provide the most campaign benefits.
So we have an overpriced damage sponge of a centerpiece monster propped up by heroes, that, for as cool as it looks you only bring because the Dwarfs and Empire refuse to build their artillery buildings or give you alliances so you're forced to break your economy to hold back all of Chaos. At least they make a decent tarpit for spells and arrows, just to make Armored Kossars MORE irrelevant.
Either frostwyrm is missing its cleave(or the damage on it has been divided by 100, CA loves doing that for some reason), or it's meant to be purely formation disrupting support monster instead of a standalone unit.
The animations clearly show it has large area attacks so it should be anti blob.
Yeah, to me the length of that breath attack on the charge implies that you're supposed to use it to charge into the side of enemy infantry that's already engaged with your own infantry and the fact that it doesn't penetrate far into the enemy formation and it can turn on a dime during it's 'coiling up' animation suggests that you're supposed to pull it back to charge again instead of running _through_ to charge again.
this game really needs a LARGE monster that doesn't get taken down fast by range units, it would be nice to have something in your army that can deal with range units and the enemy player would be force to have a monster on it which will take some time to beat it, cause usually game goes just send range units on big targets and its a easy out.
so they could change the game up with this unit forcing players to put a big unit on it to remove it or strong elite infantry since it would have really good missile resistance.
it should be a unique monster if people target it with range units or send a monster that isnt anti large on it they should be punished!, they should give it more missile resistance and more armor.
if they do this it will keep the frost wyrm more unique and not just give it more damage to fix things etc....
frost wyrm needs more:
-mass
-more armor
-more missile resistance. give it like 45 % missile resistance.
this way its not that great vs toe to toe fights and just being which monster is better to pick it option it would have some actual strategy to it! since it would have high missile fire resistance and more armor and mass it could do really well vs range units making it last longer up front or at taking hits and if the enemy wants to ignore your frost wyrm you can send it on the range units!, so the frosty wyrm won't win in a straight up fight but it is something that will force your enemy to have to take it out first if they want their range units to be alive.
or range units can fire at it but! then the player with range units will be punished since the monster has a high range resistance.
You use the thing so badly... Its chariot not a monster.
You need to have him constantly charge with his slither animation, the one when he slides on ice, he becomes basicly a chariot and if used properly can deal a lot of dmg in one charge. Very useful as mount or in single player, just micro him and abuse his insane animation and you get your money back.
Lost to Clanrats I'm dead
You'd think a dragon made of ice and spews ice, and creates massive icicles, would be anti-infantry.
my man, if you want a big tanky, damage dealing monster, choose the bear that is already there. this monster isn't supposed to win 1v1 on duels or massacre entire armys on it's own, this wyrm is fast as fuck and when played correctly can cause a lot of destruction and distraction. then again, you clearly can't play and thats why you cry about it
Thanks, you guys, for being unpaid beta testers before I buy the game in a few years. Or rather than unpaid, paying to be beta testers!
Maybe they are good for Kislev. In that faction. Compared to the other options.
It might be terrible, but it's now smaller. Everyone wants a smaller wyrm.
I hope CA sees that. Nerf the OP shit und buff that one. What a shitty game design
Has amazing animations with the cost of being terrible at everything else.
oof... yeah that's gonna need some adjustment
idea: ice witch on bear vs ice witch on frostwyrm duel?
Nah Frostwyrms are OP, you are just doing something wrong.
Honestly feel the roles should be elemental bear for inf and wyrm for cav and monsters
Honestly it looks like something isnt coded right for the frost wyrm.
They look cool and are word for word cool so imma keep getting them
I can think of 2… uses for it
1. To flex on when you win
2. To blame for the loss
Mutant rat ogres are considered bad? Damn i love using them
But it aplies frost bite, like 90% of Kislev roster basically
I'm gonna play devil's advocate and hypothesising two things :
1) Out of the three scenarios that happens on any new unit release (OP as hell, bottom garbage and "meh, it's okay"), he Wyrm clearly got dealt the worst set of cards and needs additionnal patches to be made viable.
2) The Wyrm's supposed role in the Kislevite roster is to act like the Kroxigors for the Skinks : an anti-infantry support to the (mostly) hybridised based Kislevite army.
What i mean regarding the second hypothesis is that the Wyrm, as a monstruous unit, isn't so much supposed to act as a direct killer and instead as an AOE knockbacker for the hybrid Kislevite infantry to take on an kill the ennemy units that get flown accross at the frontline. Considering how extremly wide the Wyrm's attacks are for how slim it's model is, i'd wager that it's a monstruous units that is supposed to stick to infantry (whereas the Bear act as a wrecking ball.)
Considering how low tiers of a monstruous entity it is to recruit and the proximity of Kislev to Chaos based faction (notable for having very potent melee units), my guess is that the Wyrm is really supposed to act as a melee disrupter that allow the Kislev infantry to shoot and slash the models that are flown their way.
At least, that's what i hypothesise. Now for the execution...
The clan rats killed me.😅
massive bruh moment
Hubby forgot that bastiladons are the worst monsters.
at least they have heal and solar engine with debuffing shots and vigour restoration versions
Counterpoint: Immunity to flanking, shitzillion armor, terror, and AP all available at T2 and cheap
They cost 600
This poor dragon he sucks oh no ;~;
Honestly, Frostwyrm looks like it's just a upscaled salamander unit without proper hitbox. Thing barely even does anything.
They should gove it an anti-large to compensate for the loss of the Incarnate Elemental of Beasts anti-large bonus.
Kind of funny this being released just as Legend is posting this as an "eh" doomstack video.
I don't think it's noting that can't be fix with 1 or 2 hot fix
Hotfixes take CA like 6 months.
@@rubz1390 you're just lying. Anyone can go and see how often fixes have been released lately
@@artemgushin5228 lmao sure. Along Warhammer2's lifecycle it took them that long to release hotfix patches and we still have some bugs from Warhammer2 in Warhammer3! If you think CA prioritizes fixing you are delusional.
It’s frosting timeee
can you test them again?
So one thing i will say is that units are supposed to be evaluated based on a holistic picture of the faction theyre in, not individual duels. That said, im not really sure what the frost wurm offers to kislev...
I can say nothing, literal nothing, all a frost wyrven can do, Is just already do it better by the rest of kislev units
Something clearly broken with this unit.
The joy you have over how mindblowing bad the unit is earned a sub.
idk one time i had to fight 4 of these in one army, I was Chaos dwarfs with blunderbusses andinfernal guard ( regular variant) and the wyrms broke through the lines perfectly normal. Now id would have probably been differnet if i had great weapon variant.
Frost Wyrm is extremely bad. In fact, it's so horrible that it loses ~50% of the time to the worst unity in the game, Frost Wyrm ^_^
there charge animation makes it look like they reused the dragon lords from Carthy for there models, animations and everything else. Like there flying/clipping through the dirt
They are quite cool, but they need a hefty buff to be useful. Not a reduction in cost and tier, but an increase in stats, so they can be useful.
why does 1 tomb scorpion in an army do insane damage but a 20 stack is like the worst army ever? lol
Not the experience I've had with them in campaign, they do a lot better than the feral bears and the frostbite effect is quite nice.
My dislike towards Kislev leads me to the conclusion that I see nothing wrong here. #TOD #THRONESOFDECAY #DELETECATHAY #KISLEVISBORING
They still don't test their stuff before releasing them, don't they?
in fairness, they did decent against anti-infantry infantry, dont put them against large things and have something support them and they are fine really
This has been an issue since total warhammer 1 :
HIDDEN STATS!
Unit scales/Hit-boxs :Obviously the key issue here where they're easy to surround and impossible to miss with even the most stupid windup animations.
Unit mass: This is one that when not scaled properly means big units get stuck stupid easy, it's the whole 'pathing through' issue.
Both CA and the god-aweful autoresolve system doesn't seem to account for these. The amount of times 'bad' monsters like the mutant rat-ogres can sneak out victories because of their size against larger targets shouldn't be underestimated, they tend to land at least one attack when charging back in after being knocked back while the big cool looking unit is still doing their raid boss 'OH HERE IT COMES' bullshit.
Monsters have needed more transparent stats since 2 at the latest since lizardmen had so many on release.
I feel like they could be fixed by a simple A.I. tweak + some new moves.
1. Turn the charge attack into a ranged attack.
2. Stop them from walking at the target that's in range.
3. Stop them from spinning and showing back.
4. Make them capable of charging through other units without getting netted.
Its always sad to see ca add monsters that turn their back to the enemy poor carnos had this from launch wh2 and it always made them way worse than they should have been.
...Wyrm 2 2:20... why exactly are you clicking through the main mass of clanrats instead of that clearly visibile bit with literally two dudes?
EDIT: Wyrm 4, lots of animation bugs.
This is the mental state of someone who invested a lot into Frost Wyrms because they looked cool, but after losing a couple battles thought "Hey, wait a minute...no...No...NO...IT CAN'T BE!"
As for me, a Thrawn enjoyer, I'd wonder at how effective Frost Wyrms are against indirect artillery, and if they would be better than cavalry at sniping them, due to the combination of speed and health points. The Frost Wyrm is faster than things that could outright kill it, but has enough health to tank things that could outrun it. It could be a valuable partisan unit, but that would require testing. Sadly, it would be limited only to indirect fire artillery, as I don't think they can win against dwarf organ guns, ratling guns, or walking ships.
But, if it's fast enough to dodge artillery and get around the front line, maybe it can cut off the enemy's artillery support. So...part 2?
This wouldn't be half as irritating if there weren't any technical faults at work. But things like units getting absolutely stuck/netted, animations being the worst, knock over damage immunity, etc.
Did Shogun 2 release 12 years ago now? Back then units were simpler and the combat system was also different (and a lot more enjoyable). So most of these issues doesn't exist for them.
But here comes Warhammer, with a crapton of cheap, but expensive DLC, yet with a combination of broken engine, incompetent devs and greedy, greedy publisher.
Unfortunately I pretty much had to stop playing the game because DLC value got so low that I'm not buying it, but on the other hand I don't want to feel like a second class citizen when I play a game and can't use half the units because of paywalls.
So screw this, I'm playing Shogun 2 instead.
Sounds less like its the unit itself, rather then fact that CA doesnt do proper tests. Mass should be increased and the whole "walking into the creature rather then fighting" thing needs to be addressed.
That being said, I feel like your comparisons with the jabberslythe is kinda unfair. considering the jabberslythe is a tier 4 monster that costs 1750 that ALSO has anti-infantry. The Ice wyrm wasn't meant to be a late game monster like the gabberslythe, its more meant for mid-game (and as an optional mount for that ice witches). That being said I mostly agree with the other tests.
I do agree that they are in need of a solid buff, specifically a physical resist because as of now it is the only kislev monster without a physical resist (EVEN THE SNOW LEOPARD has 20% physical resist). Although considering that CA forgor to even give them the basic wounds trait, that's prevalent on all single entities. I think we can all agree that its a bit rushed.
Its crazy that this is a 10 minute video. It takes 10 minutes to notice that one of your flagship units for your re-release of a faulty dlc is so extremely flawed. It seems nobody works at CA to do quality control. Or maybe they just don’t care inuff. 2 years and I have yet to purchase a single piece of dlc for warhammer 3 but I have to say. Tekken 8 and baldurs gate 3 are great though CA must not like money I guess 🤷♂️