I was saved in jail in 1983. Within weeks the Holy Spirit led me to a Bible Believing Church. He (the Holy Spirit) systematically convicted me of sinful habits and led me into all truth through His Word. If we as believers are reading the Word seeking to be close to Jesus, He will reveal what is Holy and acceptable to God and what is not. If we are fellowshipping in a church that encourages sexual immorality I believe He will lead us out and judge the false teachers. None of us are perfect and we need to be our brothers keeper in faithfully rebuking and confronting sin. Jesus is Lord and God is not mocked. Bless all who call on His Name 🙏
No matter how dark it is, the light of God will shine brightly. Light will prevail as the saints pray. The solution is not debate, the solution is Jesus, working through the intercession of the remnants. Babylon will eventually fall and Christ will reign forever and ever. Take heart.
How on EARTH can any actual obedient follower of Christ even think of blessing sin... I walked away from gay to follow Jesus. ONE CANNOT AND DOES NOT BLESS SIN - stop fearing men and obey GOD.
Anyone in leadership in HTB who is not completely aligned with what scripture says about homosexuality should be removed from leadership. Moral clarity, please!
You have no idea what the Bible says about same sex loving relationships as it is not mentioned in scripture however sexual abuse is mentioned between straight men and vulnerable young men
@@thecreativescot6180 Jesus was clear when he identified the basis for marriage: a man shall leave his parents, likewise a woman shall leave her parents and both become one flesh. This is the exact reflection of Genesis 2;23 Adam+Eve=one flesh Paul is clear in Romans 1. Those who lust after their own sex are perverted. Matthew 19:2-9 KJV And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there. The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adulte
@@thecreativescot6180 it is shown in Scripture, Romans 1 just one of many. Sodom - a curse upon sodomy - Lott fled the debauchery, but he was tainted; and his disobedient wife met her doom. The curse on his daughters led to incest
Elephant in the room: sexually abused men & women, including clergy at high levels, with unresolved sexuality & shame issues, & possibly associated unclean spirits, needing healing, deliverance & full restoration to their true identity, not facilitating ungodly lifestyles & corrupting God's church in line with their damage.
Why don't they cut all the talk of protocols and call sin sin and take the biblical teaching and separate from those compromised and sinful Bishops? All this fear of division is bogus. They are quite willing to divide from God - and nothing could be worse than that.
“but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”” John 8:1-11 NIV bible.com/bible/111/jhn.8.9.NIV
Jesus did not tell the lady go and continue to LIVE IN SIN!Jesus said, GO AND SIN NO MORE. We are all sinners save by grace. If we think of the ultimate price Jesus paid for our sins on the cross, then why settle in sinful living.
This is why I recently left HTB. They will not stand up and openly defend the Christian teachings on homosexuality, abortion and a number of other things. They are too afraid to alienate and 'offend' people, and thus lose numbers. As God says in Revelations to the seven churches "I know your works..." and then lists their shortcomings along with their strengths. I wonder how many strengths the CoE will have to balance all their sins? There is still time to put things right, I pray that they do.
Come and join Christ's one true holy Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is clear on these things. You are completely right about HTB and one of the reasons I left one of their sister churches.
@@andrewsmith3344HTC = Holy Trinity Church! The C of E knows that God is 3 Persons 1 God. The Unique Eternal Spirit! Q how did God appear to Abraham? Genesis 18 As 3 MEN!!! God doesn’t lie. Doesn’t misrepresent especially Himself! Elohim , Adonai = plural.
And that Sodom - the action of homosexuality therefore so named, and Gomorrah, plus Decapolis, were melted by sulphur (smells like rotten eggs) fireballs from heaven. #SODOM AND GOMORRAH - Not a myth
Perhaps I'm missing something ....is this subject not covered under the heading of "Sin" along with anything else which is not in keeping with The Holy Righteous Nature of The All Powerful Omnipotent and Only God? I fall short, way way short of The Standard God demands....(All [men/women] have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.) but, Praise be His Name, God KNEW that I am such a failure and provided a Saviour in Christ Jesus.
The church of England should heed the warning Jesus gave the Pharisees in Matt 15:6b,7,8,9. The church should not change, and be influenced by the culture but rather has to influence the culture.
Martyn Lloyd Jones was advising Christians to flee the CoE back in the 60's - so u can see how bad it was back then; it was proclaiming that ''living in sin'' is no more a sin
The Church of England has much much more serious issues to deal with: abuse and historical abuse and rape of children, to mention but one. You know why churches are on the decline: because they are becoming more and more isolated and irrelevant.
Then again, he told his disciples that he had more to tell them, but tey could not bear it now....the Spirit is still revealing truth...so , of course, the Church will continue to changes as it has done over the past 2000 years.
there are 'christian' cults, some involve UFO's; then there's Scientology [feat, John Travolta!, Mormons --- so the CoE blindness is in good company. Paul said flea from false teachers. One doctrine of the CoE is that EVERY person goes to heaven; at one time, if u were not buried in a church grave yard you were damned. A child born out of marriage was rejected.
I left HTB with a broken heart in 2022 because I sensed that the Holy Spirit wasn't there anymore. It seemed to pander to the secular in many ways promoting 'Black History Month' (I'm black btw) and other things which have nothing to do with the gospel. This stance on Homosexuality is symptomatic of deeper problems within the Church. Well done Nicky for opposing the letter.
Good for you also for recognizing the anti gospel message of black history month. It’s so tiresome to try and explain its problems to those that don’t want to hear
I cannot understand how offending or alienating others is a reason not to boldly defend the Word of God in the public square, be it on question time or in Alpha courses. Who do the HTB leaders fear? God or man? This is textbook cowardice.
thats bc they worship their organization, their own selves, above God & His Word --- it happens time and tome again; the EGO wants to be above God; it was this pride that got Adam thrown out of Eden & satan thrown out of heaven
Are you aware that the history of the Church is written in blood? in Europe alone millions of people were tortured and murdered because the church believed the it should "boldly defend the Word of God in the public square".
First world problems that have nothing to do with the word of God. The Bible is not silent on this matter, and we should not stand with anything that is against the word of God. Either we love the sin and sinner and forget God, or we love the sinner and not the sin, just as Christ did for us. When we were sinners He chose to die for us, for the forgiveness of our sins to make a way for us to come close tour Father in heaven.
God created Man and Woman Male and female Sex is between 1 man and 1 woman in holy matrimony a lifelong covenant relationship Family is the centre and glue of Godly relationships and civil society. Both equal with different attributes. Jesus Christ is The Head over all and in all through The Holy Spirit imparted by The Heavenly Father!
yes woman was made from man and for man, he is her covering [Adam's flesh covered the rib] - and that includes her father until married; man was made for God; his covering is Christ
Sounds like the CoE are compromising with gross sin, as if they will escape the wrath to come and eternal condemnation. Only fools fool around with God, for of Him, through Him and to Him, are all things (Romans 11:36).
Must be honest, I'm no wiser where HTB stands on homosexuality. I'm absolutely clear where Paul did though. 'They will no longer endure sound doctrine ...' Shame on them for wanting to look trendy on TV but not preach holiness.
I'm appalled that bells and doors and even new toilets are blessed by the church yet same sex couples who want their marriage blessed are turned away. So glad I left the c of e and minister in an inclusive denomination.....
@@selinanisbett1601 Those who knowingly sin cannot be blessed by God, they are under God's judgement. It is not possible for other than one man & one woman to marry.
@martinploughboy988 God is the only judge. As the late great Archbishop Desmond Tutu said "we might be surprised who we meet in heaven. " We are NOT the ones who judges what sin is. It is only God and if we think we know for sure what God's judgement would be then we are completely arrogant and have no humility. And if we as heterosexual people claim to be the perfect finished article then we heap arrogance upon arrogance and have completely forgotten the God given miracle of evolution.
@YoGemmy but it does say people are precious and are made in the image of God and we should LOVE them. I find it totally bizarre that the c of evolution blesses inanimate objects and cannot find it in their heart to bless people.
As Desmond Tutu famously said “What Bible are you reading?” Seriously, if you are the Church of Jesus Christ, you must live by the scriptures, the Bible. One man: one woman in marriage on this earth. No marriage in Heaven as we’ll be the bride of Christ Himself, this pledged to Him and Him only. Nothing to do with the cultural climate (determined by (often liberally depraved) folk but biblically sound and in line with God’s instructions for us.
Why oh why do they go on about YOUR opinion...when asking Christians, so when asked..they should say.. "Its not about MY opinion, because, God has set a mandate for marriage. No discussions or opinions needed. God sets the standard...and if you disagree with Him, your agenda is with Him." Church leaders here are too busy worrying about what each other thinks..and compromising with the world......instead of preaching the WORD OF GOD... and what HE DECREES.
Just wondered if there are any other things that the Bible doesn’t paint in a positive light that the CoE is looking to bless moving forward? Get back to scripture bishops and stop climbing on board cultural bandwagons.
these crony -ists wont do that - they love themselves; preen each others egos, these ''synods'' are their lifeblood ..... oh and sitting in the The Lord's of course - backing the termination of unborn children
All my perfect holy brothers and sisters commenting and casting stones is enlightening. I wish I had nothing else to worry about on my own path except to condemn how committed loving couples express their mutual feelings. “Judge not lest you be judged” seems to be ignored despite it being something Jesus cared about so much he actually spoke the words, unlike whether gay couples could get married on which he was completely silent.
@@clarewillison9379 the 'judge not' command is against believers condemning the unsaved. Conversely, the NT is very clear about judging within the Body of Christ, the goal being holiness. Jesus only recognised marriage between man and woman, never same sex. In both Romans and Corinthians, Paul is emphatic that homosexuality is sin and those who practice it will not inherit the kingdom.
I’m glad to hear Nicky Gumbel talk about how we can have differing opinions, but sadly many people are sure they have the correct interpretation. Perhaps we shouldn’t be so sure.
The Word of GOD is not open for misinterpretation. Yeshua never spoke about paed0philia , do you think he agreed to that? Silence is not acceptance. He came to fulfill the law, enough had been said about that particular sin in the OT, Sodom and Gomorrah was a clear example. Jesus came to deliver an important message, bigger than sexual impurity. Think and behave as you will, but if you join a club that is not preaching what you like, leave it and don't try to change it. There are enough misled churches to join. You will face your judgement alone in the end.
@@suzy9474-o2j so is adultery: would you agree that an adulterer should be stoned to death, or does that require a bit of interpretation. Have faith, but don't stop using your intelligence.
You are of your father and you speak the lies your father speaks ... as he spoke to Eve in the garden "“Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?” Today the serpent speaks "Yea, does God's Word really say homosexuality is a sin?" Repent! Believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and be saved.
Many years ago Nicky Gumbel published a leaflet as part of the Alpha Course which gives a conservative view of sexuality. In fact The Guardian wrote an article about it, comparing the Alpha Course to the Nazis.
The true bible believers will follow God's word and know God speaks clearly on this, Christians who fallow the narrow way hold on to God's word,whilst theirs the Broadway through life , under much pressure some Good men of God may have compromised ,we pray for all Christian church leaders to stand firm to God's word
In the same way the bible is clear about eating pig. Celebrating the sabbath etc, etc. I bet you eat pig and have the sabbath on a Sunday. All contrary to the bible.
It’s also very, very clear about murder. ‘Thou shalt not kill.’ Yet I haven’t heard many evangelical voices protesting millions of pounds of arms sales to foreign countries to kill innocent men, women and children. Funny how we accept the ‘fudging’ of this with Augustine’s just war theory, but are absolutely determined that the few references in the Bible on homosexuality are non negotiable
@@tcrosslinho5565 even if that were so (and the ruling on eating pigs is clearly overturned in the book of Acts), would that make this issue any less serious?
For something as foundational as marriage, especially in the church, you have to speak up even if it causes division in the short term. There are some issues that there doesn't have to be an official position about but I don't believe that this is one of them.
@@johnlennox-pe2nqif it was Luther many will read the Bible . And know the truth .luther stumble on Roman 1:15 salvation belong to the Jew first . Then to the gentiles , Many Catholics will grow I relationship with Jesus and be saved Instead of praying to idols with seal lips and perish . That has no relevance to their salvation . Big mistake big! Big ! mistake ! God used Luther in a big way , he read for the first time how much God loves his people . and all the books he wrote that persecuted his people now he had to repent , the damaged was done Hitler used the books Martin Luther wrote to persecute God’s people in the Holocaust. Today many still believe the lies that God has given Up on his people The teaching of the Catholic Church is still doing its damage today . seeking missile for Jesus, today I hear his voice he guides me . He blocks my path, when he sees dangers ahead , I only realise after. He is my best friend. He is my healer my provided . I don’t need Mary or any idol they all have weak lips , but the people don’t read the Bible but pray to idols and they perish when they die there is no rest I peace In the Bible
Name one Scripture where two of God's people, of the same sex are in a 'marriage'... or any blessed similar relationship. Time and time again it speaks of 1 husband [man], with one wife [woman]. See Genesis 2; 23
This should be more accurate if it was called Pharisaical Analysis. White-washed tombs that love to point out false teaching (in their narrow view) but show so little compassion.
Im sorry to break this to you brother, but the Bible has already been rewritten many time over by scribes and translators over the years. they invented the Holy Trinity, they invented Hell (a word that never featured in the OT or NT until the translators got their hands on the scrolls) and they even used Plato's idea of the eternal soul and therefore the idea of eternal life.
@@Hadrianus01 It's Roman, not Catholic. It split with the rest of the world in 1054, offered the chance of repentance at the Reformation, which it turned down, it is now the heretical Roma sect.
It hasn’t change , God words never changes , but many geeks go away change ! The power of the cross , what you may see as foolishness while you are perishing we see it as victory in Christ . He came to Make dead people alive in Christ . Are you dead man walking ? Or alive in him
@ I read a Greek NT and I studied theology at Cambridge so I’m quite happy with my understanding of theology and doctrine. I started my Christian life as a Pentecostal and now I’m Anglican so I’ve had a wide church experience. Most ‘interpretation’ problems are doctrinal and, worse, sectarian with deliberate mistranslations. Just read the Bible with a reliable Commentary (like the NIV) and you’ll have almost no room for confusion or misunderstanding.
@@edwardbakker2571 1 HTB are an Anglican Church and operate within that theological paradigm, whatever you opinion. 2 The Athiest religion offers very little apart from smugness. You represent about 7% of the world population. Get over yourself.
Many of us who hold orthodox views on the matter are becoming equally uncomfortable at the way many leaders on 'our' side fail to show empathy or understanding towards non-heterosexual people. Go back to the 1970s and 1980s and we as Christians seemed to be the first to speak out against homophobia, and to accept that gay people are of that nature because the Lord created them that way. During the LLF consultation process I was shocked to hear intelligent, older brothers in Christ seriously suggesting conversion therapy for LGBT people. Surely these silent leaders can show the courage to speak an orthodox view whilst showing an appreciation of what involuntary celibacy and abstinence really means? If gay and lesbian Christians who choose to be celibate AND abstinent cannot have normal family relationships, then we as a Church need to act as supportive family members.
This is a messy statement for an orthodox person. This statement is indeed right in calling for compassion and the church being family to those who can't have normal family relationships, but it is terrible in saying that the Lord created people "non-heterosexual" and that "gay people are of that nature because the Lord created them that way". That is both a blasphemous statement and an illogical one. It is blasphemous because scripture clearly says that the Lord made them male and female to be one flesh. To say otherwise about what God has revealed in scripture is to lie about Him and what he has decreed. It is to align with the Father of Lies who long ago twisted orthodoxy by saying, "Did God really say.......?" And it is illogical because if God created some to be gay then he is cruel to require them to be celibate. You can't call yourself orthodox, hold the view that God created people with a gay nature, and continue with the orthodox view that says God is good.
We are told quite clearly that certain people will not inherit the kingdom of God: Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. Homosexuals are listed, along with others that I'm sure you'd agree are sinners. The amazing thing is found in what Paul goes on to say: But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (I Corinthians 6:9-11 [ESV2011]) Those people you would agree are sinners, God changes, they receive His conversion therapy. And that applies to those 'gay' people as well. Just as the thief is converted, so is the homosexual, indeed, that is the experience of all God's people. We are all recipients of God's conversion therapy, that takes away the heart of stone & gives us a heart of flesh.
@@martinploughboy988 The Biblical passage refers to those who practice homosexuality, not those who may be tempted to do so. I've known a number of non-heretrosexual Christians who abstain from sex and romantic relationships for this reason. Surely you would support them in dong so? But I'm afraid that attempts to change a person's orientation are simply very unlikely to work. To pretend otherwise is deceitful.
@@timpearson5086 If you call yourself a homosexual you are claiming that sin as your nature. Do people go around saying they are a thief but are abstaining from stealing? Sexual orientation does not exist, it is a device to excuse sin, nothing more.
@@martinploughboy988 how many non-heterosexual people have you actually known? And of these, how many were Christians accepting that this meant staying abstinent and celibate? I can assure you that such people do exist - I've known several. I suspect that your views would be very different if you'd known a few.
I was saved in jail in 1983. Within weeks the Holy Spirit led me to a Bible Believing Church. He (the Holy Spirit) systematically convicted me of sinful habits and led me into all truth through His Word. If we as believers are reading the Word seeking to be close to Jesus, He will reveal what is Holy and acceptable to God and what is not. If we are fellowshipping in a church that encourages sexual immorality I believe He will lead us out and judge the false teachers. None of us are perfect and we need to be our brothers keeper in faithfully rebuking and confronting sin. Jesus is Lord and God is not mocked. Bless all who call on His Name 🙏
Amen brother 🙏 we're not perfect but let's not be encouraging what is clearly labelled as sin.
It's one thing to be fighting a besetting sin quite another to say it is alright.
I left the C of E and now attend a Free Evangelical Church ✝️
I left a free evangelical church several years ago because they were ungodly, intolerant, judgemental, money-grabbing, power brokers.
No matter how dark it is, the light of God will shine brightly. Light will prevail as the saints pray. The solution is not debate, the solution is Jesus, working through the intercession of the remnants. Babylon will eventually fall and Christ will reign forever and ever. Take heart.
How on EARTH can any actual obedient follower of Christ even think of blessing sin... I walked away from gay to follow Jesus. ONE CANNOT AND DOES NOT BLESS SIN - stop fearing men and obey GOD.
What about heterosexual people who fornicated?
Or divorced and remarried?
@@andybray9791Jesus says go and sin no more like He did to the woman caught in adultery.
@@andybray9791Jesus says go and sin no more like He did to the woman caught in adultery.
@@andybray9791 sin - can be forgiven if repented of and forsaken.
Anyone in leadership in HTB who is not completely aligned with what scripture says about homosexuality should be removed from leadership. Moral clarity, please!
You have no idea what the Bible says about same sex loving relationships as it is not mentioned in scripture however sexual abuse is mentioned between straight men and vulnerable young men
@@thecreativescot6180I think you should read Romans chapter one .
@@thecreativescot6180Lev 18:22, Lev 20:22, Rom 1:26-28 …. And many more!
@@thecreativescot6180 Jesus was clear when he identified the basis for marriage: a man shall leave his parents, likewise a woman shall leave her parents and both become one flesh.
This is the exact reflection of Genesis 2;23 Adam+Eve=one flesh
Paul is clear in Romans 1. Those who lust after their own sex are perverted.
Matthew 19:2-9 KJV
And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.
The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adulte
@@thecreativescot6180 it is shown in Scripture, Romans 1 just one of many.
Sodom - a curse upon sodomy - Lott fled the debauchery, but he was tainted; and his disobedient wife met her doom. The curse on his daughters led to incest
Celebrating and blessing sin in the church is evil. Biblical leadership is needed.
Describing as "sin" that which gives life and wholeness to many Christians, and which Christ himself never spoke about is a little presumptuous..
Elephant in the room: sexually abused men & women, including clergy at high levels, with unresolved sexuality & shame issues, & possibly associated unclean spirits, needing healing, deliverance & full restoration to their true identity, not facilitating ungodly lifestyles & corrupting God's church in line with their damage.
Why don't they cut all the talk of protocols and call sin sin and take the biblical teaching and separate from those compromised and sinful Bishops? All this fear of division is bogus. They are quite willing to divide from God - and nothing could be worse than that.
I wonder, when your wife had or has a menstrual cycle do you sleep in the same bed as her?
Truth must be told! Sin is sin doesn’t matter what form!
are you that person that would throw the first stone?
I would be the person who will say the truth, huge difference!! Love the person not the sin!
“but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.””
John 8:1-11 NIV
bible.com/bible/111/jhn.8.9.NIV
Jesus did not throw the stone, neither did he condemn the sinner, but he said after GO AND SIN NO MORE!
Jesus did not tell the lady go and continue to LIVE IN SIN!Jesus said, GO AND SIN NO MORE. We are all sinners save by grace. If we think of the ultimate price Jesus paid for our sins on the cross, then why settle in sinful living.
This is why I recently left HTB. They will not stand up and openly defend the Christian teachings on homosexuality, abortion and a number of other things. They are too afraid to alienate and 'offend' people, and thus lose numbers. As God says in Revelations to the seven churches "I know your works..." and then lists their shortcomings along with their strengths. I wonder how many strengths the CoE will have to balance all their sins? There is still time to put things right, I pray that they do.
What do you think regarding the idea of balancing sin? Would you consider it biblically correct?
Come and join Christ's one true holy Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is clear on these things. You are completely right about HTB and one of the reasons I left one of their sister churches.
What about standing up against those who believe in the Trinity?
@@eugeney7917sounds Islamic.
@@andrewsmith3344HTC = Holy Trinity Church!
The C of E knows that God is 3 Persons 1 God. The Unique Eternal Spirit!
Q how did God appear to Abraham?
Genesis 18 As 3 MEN!!!
God doesn’t lie. Doesn’t misrepresent especially Himself!
Elohim , Adonai = plural.
Interesting how not one single reference is made to the bible and what God has to say about it.
And that Sodom - the action of homosexuality therefore so named, and Gomorrah, plus Decapolis, were melted by sulphur (smells like rotten eggs) fireballs from heaven. #SODOM AND GOMORRAH - Not a myth
Perhaps I'm missing something
....is this subject not covered under the heading of "Sin" along with anything else which is not in keeping with The Holy Righteous Nature of The All Powerful Omnipotent and Only God?
I fall short, way way short of The Standard God demands....(All [men/women] have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.) but, Praise be His Name, God KNEW that I am such a failure and provided a Saviour in Christ Jesus.
The church of England should heed the warning Jesus gave the Pharisees in Matt 15:6b,7,8,9. The church should not change, and be influenced by the culture but rather has to influence the culture.
Martyn Lloyd Jones was advising Christians to flee the CoE back in the 60's - so u can see how bad it was back then; it was proclaiming that ''living in sin'' is no more a sin
@@johnlennox-pe2nq Good is bad and bad is good...
The Church of England has much much more serious issues to deal with: abuse and historical abuse and rape of children, to mention but one.
You know why churches are on the decline: because they are becoming more and more isolated and irrelevant.
Then again, he told his disciples that he had more to tell them, but tey could not bear it now....the Spirit is still revealing truth...so , of course, the Church will continue to changes as it has done over the past 2000 years.
there are 'christian' cults, some involve UFO's; then there's Scientology [feat, John Travolta!, Mormons --- so the CoE blindness is in good company.
Paul said flea from false teachers.
One doctrine of the CoE is that EVERY person goes to heaven; at one time, if u were not buried in a church grave yard you were damned. A child born out of marriage was rejected.
I left HTB with a broken heart in 2022 because I sensed that the Holy Spirit wasn't there anymore. It seemed to pander to the secular in many ways promoting 'Black History Month' (I'm black btw) and other things which have nothing to do with the gospel. This stance on Homosexuality is symptomatic of deeper problems within the Church. Well done Nicky for opposing the letter.
Good for you also for recognizing the anti gospel message of black history month. It’s so tiresome to try and explain its problems to those that don’t want to hear
Sorry to hear that... have you found somewhere else to go?
💯
@@TheMOV13 Yes. I've found an evangelical church closer to home. They're cautiously traditional but a great balance of Word / Worship / Witness
I recommend you read "Black and British" it may open your eyes as to how much black people have had to bear the sin of white people.
I cannot understand how offending or alienating others is a reason not to boldly defend the Word of God in the public square, be it on question time or in Alpha courses. Who do the HTB leaders fear? God or man? This is textbook cowardice.
thats bc they worship their organization, their own selves, above God & His Word --- it happens time and tome again; the EGO wants to be above God; it was this pride that got Adam thrown out of Eden & satan thrown out of heaven
Money
Are you aware that the history of the Church is written in blood? in Europe alone millions of people were tortured and murdered because the church believed the it should "boldly defend the Word of God in the public square".
First world problems that have nothing to do with the word of God. The Bible is not silent on this matter, and we should not stand with anything that is against the word of God. Either we love the sin and sinner and forget God, or we love the sinner and not the sin, just as Christ did for us. When we were sinners He chose to die for us, for the forgiveness of our sins to make a way for us to come close tour Father in heaven.
God created Man and Woman
Male and female
Sex is between 1 man and 1 woman in holy matrimony a lifelong covenant relationship
Family is the centre and glue of Godly relationships and civil society.
Both equal with different attributes. Jesus Christ is The Head over all and in all through The Holy Spirit imparted by The Heavenly Father!
yes woman was made from man and for man, he is her covering [Adam's flesh covered the rib] - and that includes her father until married; man was made for God; his covering is Christ
Umm presumably based on that verse in Genesis. Shame Moses Abraham David et al had different ideas
Sounds like the CoE are compromising with gross sin, as if they will escape the wrath to come and eternal condemnation. Only fools fool around with God, for of Him, through Him and to Him, are all things (Romans 11:36).
Must be honest, I'm no wiser where HTB stands on homosexuality. I'm absolutely clear where Paul did though. 'They will no longer endure sound doctrine ...' Shame on them for wanting to look trendy on TV but not preach holiness.
when the brand is more important than the bible a culture driven church will become like laodacea
We do not have the authority to bless sin.
I'm appalled that bells and doors and even new toilets are blessed by the church yet same sex couples who want their marriage blessed are turned away. So glad I left the c of e and minister in an inclusive denomination.....
@@selinanisbett1601 but the Bible doesn't say that toilets are sinful.....
@@selinanisbett1601 Those who knowingly sin cannot be blessed by God, they are under God's judgement. It is not possible for other than one man & one woman to marry.
@martinploughboy988 God is the only judge. As the late great Archbishop Desmond Tutu said "we might be surprised who we meet in heaven. " We are NOT the ones who judges what sin is. It is only God and if we think we know for sure what God's judgement would be then we are completely arrogant and have no humility. And if we as heterosexual people claim to be the perfect finished article then we heap arrogance upon arrogance and have completely forgotten the God given miracle of evolution.
@YoGemmy but it does say people are precious and are made in the image of God and we should LOVE them. I find it totally bizarre that the c of evolution blesses inanimate objects and cannot find it in their heart to bless people.
As Desmond Tutu famously said “What Bible are you reading?”
Seriously, if you are the Church of Jesus Christ, you must live by the scriptures, the Bible.
One man: one woman in marriage on this earth.
No marriage in Heaven as we’ll be the bride of Christ Himself, this pledged to Him and Him only.
Nothing to do with the cultural climate (determined by (often liberally depraved) folk but biblically sound and in line with God’s instructions for us.
You quote Desmond Tutu and then go on to say the opposite of what he himself believed about homosexual people. What bible are you reading?
Why oh why do they go on about YOUR opinion...when asking Christians, so when asked..they should say..
"Its not about MY opinion, because, God has set a mandate for marriage. No discussions or opinions needed. God sets the standard...and if you disagree with Him, your agenda is with Him."
Church leaders here are too busy worrying about what each other thinks..and compromising with the world......instead of preaching the WORD OF GOD... and what HE DECREES.
Just wondered if there are any other things that the Bible doesn’t paint in a positive light that the CoE is looking to bless moving forward?
Get back to scripture bishops and stop climbing on board cultural bandwagons.
these crony -ists wont do that - they love themselves; preen each others egos, these ''synods'' are their lifeblood ..... oh and sitting in the The Lord's of course - backing the termination of unborn children
Leadership is important and it is about time HTB did some.
All my perfect holy brothers and sisters commenting and casting stones is enlightening. I wish I had nothing else to worry about on my own path except to condemn how committed loving couples express their mutual feelings.
“Judge not lest you be judged” seems to be ignored despite it being something Jesus cared about so much he actually spoke the words, unlike whether gay couples could get married on which he was completely silent.
@@clarewillison9379 the 'judge not' command is against believers condemning the unsaved. Conversely, the NT is very clear about judging within the Body of Christ, the goal being holiness. Jesus only recognised marriage between man and woman, never same sex. In both Romans and Corinthians, Paul is emphatic that homosexuality is sin and those who practice it will not inherit the kingdom.
@@Back2TheBike please note that Yeshua never said anything about homosexuality.
Well said Clare, I could not agree more.
I’m glad to hear Nicky Gumbel talk about how we can have differing opinions, but sadly many people are sure they have the correct interpretation. Perhaps we shouldn’t be so sure.
The Bible is crystal clear about homosexuality being sin...how can Christians not be sure??!!
The Word of GOD is not open for misinterpretation.
Yeshua never spoke about paed0philia , do you think he agreed to that? Silence is not acceptance.
He came to fulfill the law, enough had been said about that particular sin in the OT, Sodom and Gomorrah was a clear example. Jesus came to deliver an important message, bigger than sexual impurity.
Think and behave as you will, but if you join a club that is not preaching what you like, leave it and don't try to change it. There are enough misled churches to join.
You will face your judgement alone in the end.
It’s not something that needs lots of thought or study to interpret. The Bible very clearly states that it is sin.
@@suzy9474-o2j so is adultery: would you agree that an adulterer should be stoned to death, or does that require a bit of interpretation. Have faith, but don't stop using your intelligence.
You are of your father and you speak the lies your father speaks ... as he spoke to Eve in the garden "“Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”
Today the serpent speaks "Yea, does God's Word really say homosexuality is a sin?"
Repent! Believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and be saved.
Looks like the Synod on Synodality.
Many years ago Nicky Gumbel published a leaflet as part of the Alpha Course which gives a conservative view of sexuality. In fact The Guardian wrote an article about it, comparing the Alpha Course to the Nazis.
The Bible is clear about this issue; why can't church leaders also be clear about it? Are they cowards or compromisers?
Because some of them are homosexual themselves
The true bible believers will follow God's word and know God speaks clearly on this, Christians who fallow the narrow way hold on to God's word,whilst theirs the Broadway through life , under much pressure some Good men of God may have compromised ,we pray for all Christian church leaders to stand firm to God's word
In the same way the bible is clear about eating pig. Celebrating the sabbath etc, etc. I bet you eat pig and have the sabbath on a Sunday. All contrary to the bible.
It’s also very, very clear about murder. ‘Thou shalt not kill.’ Yet I haven’t heard many evangelical voices protesting millions of pounds of arms sales to foreign countries to kill innocent men, women and children. Funny how we accept the ‘fudging’ of this with Augustine’s just war theory, but are absolutely determined that the few references in the Bible on homosexuality are non negotiable
@@tcrosslinho5565 even if that were so (and the ruling on eating pigs is clearly overturned in the book of Acts), would that make this issue any less serious?
For something as foundational as marriage, especially in the church, you have to speak up even if it causes division in the short term. There are some issues that there doesn't have to be an official position about but I don't believe that this is one of them.
Written on the Doors of the C of E is ICHABOD = The Glory has Departed. repent = Justin Welby
Luther-like?
@@johnlennox-pe2nqif it was Luther many will read the Bible . And know the truth .luther stumble on Roman 1:15 salvation belong to the Jew first . Then to the gentiles , Many Catholics will grow I relationship with Jesus and be saved Instead of praying to idols with seal lips and perish . That has no relevance to their salvation . Big mistake big! Big ! mistake ! God used Luther in a big way , he read for the first time how much God loves his people . and all the books he wrote that persecuted his people now he had to repent , the damaged was done Hitler used the books Martin Luther wrote to persecute God’s people in the Holocaust.
Today many still believe the lies that God has given Up on his people The teaching of the Catholic Church is still doing its damage today .
seeking missile for Jesus, today I hear his voice he guides me . He blocks my path, when he sees dangers ahead , I only realise after. He is my best friend. He is my healer my provided . I don’t need Mary or any idol they all have weak lips , but the people don’t read the Bible but pray to idols and they perish when they die there is no rest I peace In the Bible
If you accept what God considers an abomination then you are complicit with it. Leaders will be judged more harshly.
The bible is clear you do not bless sin homosexually is a sin it cannot be blessed and be faithful to scripture
What scripture are you referring to? And can we have it in context not how you decide to interpret it.
@@adventurerambling see Romans 1. It is called a perversion, lusting after ones own flesh
Name one Scripture where two of God's people, of the same sex are in a 'marriage'...
or any blessed similar relationship. Time and time again it speaks of 1 husband [man], with one wife [woman]. See Genesis 2; 23
@@adventurerambling Romans 1.
What is in the scriptures. Hello.🤷🏿♂️
Read Sodom and Gomorrah ,Google it .
Don't they read their Bibles?? Sadly, the Baptist Union is heading in the same direction...
What is the bishops' and archbishops' definition of apostasy?
This should be more accurate if it was called Pharisaical Analysis. White-washed tombs that love to point out false teaching (in their narrow view) but show so little compassion.
This is wrong Jesus Christ created man and woman
God created all things including human beings. Not Jesus.
God is love. Arguing about rules and regulations isn’t helpful or scriptural.
You just showed only 3 or 4 negative reactions to the right decision.
Everything about this wreaks of cowardice!
You cannot rewrite the bible! What It teaches is clear, such person's cannot inherit eternal life! Stop playing around it does tremendous damage!
Im sorry to break this to you brother, but the Bible has already been rewritten many time over by scribes and translators over the years. they invented the Holy Trinity, they invented Hell (a word that never featured in the OT or NT until the translators got their hands on the scrolls) and they even used Plato's idea of the eternal soul and therefore the idea of eternal life.
@edwardbakker2571 It is God who has protected his Holy word that is why it is still today totally reliable! Obey it and find out for yourself.
5:18 I don't know who these worshippers are worshipping, but it's not my God
The Catholic Church did the same thing earlier this year: Fiducia Supplicans.
Rome isn't Christian.
You mean Roman!
@@P.H.888 Pope Francis is head of the Catholic Church, not just the "Roman" part.
@@Hadrianus01 It's Roman, not Catholic. It split with the rest of the world in 1054, offered the chance of repentance at the Reformation, which it turned down, it is now the heretical Roma sect.
Jesusis sifting the church in preparation for His return.
"Living in Lust and Fornication"
Are you really?
I always thought nicky gumbal came across abit gay 🤔
What did you listen to. I just heard in this video he wouldn’t give his view which I respect.
That’s “Aitch tee bee” NOT “Haitch tee bee”!!!
Some of you should brush up on your new testament greek
It hasn’t change , God words never changes , but many geeks go away change ! The power of the cross , what you may see as foolishness while you are perishing we see it as victory in Christ . He came to Make dead people alive in Christ . Are you dead man walking ? Or alive in him
Too little, too late. Stop being afraid of people’s opinions and get straight with the Word of God.
you mean, your interpretation of it?
@ I read a Greek NT and I studied theology at Cambridge so I’m quite happy with my understanding of theology and doctrine.
I started my Christian life as a Pentecostal and now I’m Anglican so I’ve had a wide church experience.
Most ‘interpretation’ problems are doctrinal and, worse, sectarian with deliberate mistranslations.
Just read the Bible with a reliable Commentary (like the NIV) and you’ll have almost no room for confusion or misunderstanding.
@@chrisevanz okay but the basic premise of your religious faith is untrue/invalid. Therefore the theological argument fails.
@@edwardbakker2571
1 HTB are an Anglican Church and operate within that theological paradigm, whatever you opinion.
2 The Athiest religion offers very little apart from smugness. You represent about 7% of the world population. Get over yourself.
Strongly encourage you to read a book called
SEXUALITY- WHAT THE CHURCH SHOULD BE TELLING YOU BUT IS TOO AFRAID TO SAY
Ah yes, this ‘analysis’, that insular and sanctimonious body purporting to speak with relevance.
Gave up listening half way though! Very badly presented by the “narrator”. Too much damage done already I think. Sad.
Many of us who hold orthodox views on the matter are becoming equally uncomfortable at the way many leaders on 'our' side fail to show empathy or understanding towards non-heterosexual people. Go back to the 1970s and 1980s and we as Christians seemed to be the first to speak out against homophobia, and to accept that gay people are of that nature because the Lord created them that way. During the LLF consultation process I was shocked to hear intelligent, older brothers in Christ seriously suggesting conversion therapy for LGBT people. Surely these silent leaders can show the courage to speak an orthodox view whilst showing an appreciation of what involuntary celibacy and abstinence really means? If gay and lesbian Christians who choose to be celibate AND abstinent cannot have normal family relationships, then we as a Church need to act as supportive family members.
This is a messy statement for an orthodox person. This statement is indeed right in calling for compassion and the church being family to those who can't have normal family relationships, but it is terrible in saying that the Lord created people "non-heterosexual" and that "gay people are of that nature because the Lord created them that way". That is both a blasphemous statement and an illogical one. It is blasphemous because scripture clearly says that the Lord made them male and female to be one flesh. To say otherwise about what God has revealed in scripture is to lie about Him and what he has decreed. It is to align with the Father of Lies who long ago twisted orthodoxy by saying, "Did God really say.......?" And it is illogical because if God created some to be gay then he is cruel to require them to be celibate. You can't call yourself orthodox, hold the view that God created people with a gay nature, and continue with the orthodox view that says God is good.
We are told quite clearly that certain people will not inherit the kingdom of God:
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you.
Homosexuals are listed, along with others that I'm sure you'd agree are sinners.
The amazing thing is found in what Paul goes on to say:
But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
(I Corinthians 6:9-11 [ESV2011])
Those people you would agree are sinners, God changes, they receive His conversion therapy. And that applies to those 'gay' people as well. Just as the thief is converted, so is the homosexual, indeed, that is the experience of all God's people. We are all recipients of God's conversion therapy, that takes away the heart of stone & gives us a heart of flesh.
@@martinploughboy988 The Biblical passage refers to those who practice homosexuality, not those who may be tempted to do so. I've known a number of non-heretrosexual Christians who abstain from sex and romantic relationships for this reason. Surely you would support them in dong so? But I'm afraid that attempts to change a person's orientation are simply very unlikely to work. To pretend otherwise is deceitful.
@@timpearson5086 If you call yourself a homosexual you are claiming that sin as your nature. Do people go around saying they are a thief but are abstaining from stealing?
Sexual orientation does not exist, it is a device to excuse sin, nothing more.
@@martinploughboy988 how many non-heterosexual people have you actually known? And of these, how many were Christians accepting that this meant staying abstinent and celibate? I can assure you that such people do exist - I've known several. I suspect that your views would be very different if you'd known a few.
The West Wing scene offers an interesting perspective … ua-cam.com/video/DSXJzybEeJM/v-deo.htmlsi=hKWVW9tni-MUdFyd
One of the best scenes of this excellent programme. Thank you for posting.