It'd be far better represented in Recount or Details if the damage bars per person simply recolored whatever portion of DPS that was granted by the Augvoker as a different color, as Warcraftlogs does it. That would show a DPS a direct reference and measurement of how much more damage they're doing.
THIS! I honestly feel like I'm the type of person Aug was made for. Making a ilvl 398 friend do 400k dps is the height of gaming for me! Putting all that added damage back onto "my bar" would go against the "class fantasy". BUT, it has become painfully apparent that some people need to in some way be shown that it is because of the Aug that they are able to do that. Perhaps people will simply come to understand in time. But Pugging as Aug is a bit rough atm.
In interviews Graham Berger said that if you're playing Augmentation, you want to buff your allies, you want to see them doing a lot of damage, so attributing the damage to you on the in-game meters would take away from that. That made sense to me when I heard it. But just about as soon as I started jumping into dungeons as Augmentation I realized how bad it is to have no way of knowing how well I'm doing. And when you're pugging, it's not like you get to see your allies' "before and after" damage numbers. You don't know what their normal damage numbers would look like so you get no satisfaction of seeing how much they're increasing. It's a really bad feeling not having any of that feedback
The issue I see with Augmentation is, no matter how good the Aug player is, if the Dps he is buffing sucks, then it would be a bust. Also the reverse is an option, the Aug player is shit, in which case everyone would have preferred a 3rd Dps. In pug world Augmentation Evoker will just simply suffer the same as the rest of us.
@@termintot4645yes but aug buffs the entire group, not just one person. If one person is going to make or break your group, the group sucks lol. Same applies to good vs bad aug - bad player is bad player 😤
they need to add a new combat damage number color: make it blue, all dmg added is blue colored dmg numbers so players know what is coming from aug vs themselves. shouldnt be that difficult to do.
This is why Blizz just needs to put out a damage meter of their own. They have all the raw data and could mimic other meters in presentation, it would basically be a combat log rework. All the information for the support class to improve and the DPS to know their contribution could be provided and players wouldn't have to guess with addons or wait until logs were available. They have been improving UI a lot already, they can help prevent supports from getting tarred and torched by adding in a Blizz-brand meter.
This dilemma is similar to one of pet classes back in original vanilla and even TBC. Damage meters originally did not include pet damage and when they did, pet damage was not included by default. The meters need to be allowed to show both the overall damage of players buffed by Augmentation and, the calculated bonus damage provided by the Augmenter as a separate parse.
@@joserobertotrevinosalinas9910 All logs use the game combat log data to extrapolate and illustrate their metrics. The difference is in the presentation: Highly detailed or summarized, in-game or external, real-time or post action. Players need real-time in-game metrics to actively measure their performance.
But since the meters only show the buffed damage because of Augvokers, their raw damage compared to the output of other players isn’t really contributing to much other than relying on the other DPS to pull them through. It’s seriously like you’re carrying them for rating.
As someone playing Devastation in raid, and naturally trying out Aug as one of the few evokers in my group, I'm still at a loss which would be better as logs don't really seem to tell the entire story yet. It "feels" like having one aug evoker would be of great value to a raid team, but difficult to judge with the current logs/details situation. First week and all, but hopefully this matter gets cleared up quickly. I could have sworn Blizzard said this would be addressable at launch, clearly it is not.
Hmm, might have to look at average week gear increases. Look at average time to kill bosses. And look at a few different weeks as both dev and aug. if kill time is better as aug, despite everyone getting new gear, it may be alright
Same issue back in wrath for disc priest in raid. They were showing very low healing because the majority of their healing was absorption. I had to argue with my GM for two weeks and he kept threatening to replace me if I refused to go holy. Then I told him how to show combined absorbs and healing and it showed that my healing eclipsed the other healers combined. He dropped the argument with an "ok" and got in the other healers for being so low. He really struggled to grasp the concept that you can't heal what hasn't taken damage yet without overhealing.
This is entirely a world of warcraft community problem. I play Destiny 2, and in that community we've had dedicated buff/debuff classes for a *long* time, and while there are no dps meters, there are damage readouts at the end screen that shows how much each player did. Buff and debuff classes are seen as some of the most important classes, no one will *ever* complain about having one, because people are just interested in getting things done. No one has any illusions about where their high numbers are coming from in that game, this is unique to WoW and its community's overreliance on dps meters.
@@noahkast9562 Honest question: is WCL accurate? I did not read anything on how WCL calculates it but calculating how much damage you contribute buffing 3% crit chance won't be precise, it's just statistics.
@@voltsplagueno its not 100% accurate. Classes that rely on pet damage is not being attributed back to the evoker. Other than that, it gives you a general idea of what they're doing.
It's quite far off at the moment and as it stands is still has the problem of not being able to split pet damage for the Augmentation, meaning Demo or BM specs are just broken
@@voltsplague well think of it this way, if a demonhunter has 30% crit chance every time they hit it is like generating a random number between 1 and 100, if it is 30 or below you crit, if not you don't. If you have a 3% crit buff from aug it increases the range from 30 and below to 33 and below and if it is 31 32 or 33 then attribute the extra critical damage to the evoker.
We need both damage views. Once this settles down we will see player guides being split into “talents and rotation with an aug evoker in your group” and “talents and rotation without aug evoker in group”
The biggest problem I have playing as augmentation in m+ so far is that if one of the other dps' die it feels like the fight is over since you basically lost 1.5 party members and cannot recover the lost dps. It works great when everyone is working properly but can fall apart very quickly. Obviously that's a basic part of the class but it makes party member deaths even more disappointing. Also can I ask what the average uptime most people are having with Ebon Might? The handful of 16's I've ran had me at around 64-67% and I definitely know I can do better.
It’s not as bad as you think when a dps dies. Our buffs don’t only buff the dps they buff everyone and it’s also not only dmg we buff. Higher tank survival, higher healer dmg, healing and mana management from source of magic. Obviously loosing a dps does suck more when you’re play aug but it aint that bad.
I think people to get away from damage meters in mythic+. Details should be used an a diagnostics tool, not a game in itself. Aug throws a wrench in people's playstyle where they aren't really playing to time the key, they want damage PRs. The game Blizzard makes for the players is "kill the boss", the game players make for themselves is "do the most damage". I think the spec is working as intended and doesn't need any fix to display what dps it contributes because at that point it's just another dps spec.
Lotro captain(support class) main here. As support your not supposed to be the main healer,main tank,big dps person. Your there to support your teams by buffing to get them to be healed more and do more damage. and to help alleviate the stress of the main healer or tank. If everyone in your group is alive when the raid is done and everyone had a great chill time. It means the augmentation evoker did there job right.
Yeah,u are right,but if u are kicked out from a pug because "the healer has more dmg than u",that SUCKS,all because of a stupid addon rule.Nice lotro class btw
The (dmg) meters don't say anything anymore, it's being falsified too much with PI or now with the new spek, or simply missing raid buffs. The design of the class is also questionable if it buffs individual players and not the whole 30 group. Of course everyone will try to only 'buff' the best players.
I haven't looked at the patchnotes at all, but my mistweaver feels al lot better after the patch. Either it got buffed in someway or everything else got nerfed.
I love Augmentation, they juice your damage so much. Doing AoE as a Fire Mage and just see number vomit as your attacks echo is orgasmic. Can't wait to get more support specs and classes. As for which side, I think they should show the damage contribution as buffs.
There's a simple fix for the augment evokers who aren't happy with not seeing all their damage. You go to your talent tree and press the devastation button.
There's a simple fix for the people who arn't happy with any small thing in wow. Quit the game! or You give the feedback to devs that want it so they can actually do something. People like you are lazy useless idiots.
was the key completed? yes? then welcome to the group...people are so caught up in that damn dmg meter sigh. If someone has the lowest dmg but the highest number of interrupts and dispels how does that factor in peoples mind?
I've said it on a few other forums, but as an augvoker I've shifted my details to show buff uptime now instead of damage. That way i can track my own pwrsonal performance by keeping my main buff up >75% of the time in fights, and prescience up >80%. I'm sure there's either a weakaura or mod that can track it better, but that's how i measure my contribution now
That is actually not a bad idea. Been wondering how to judge their performance, and do not agree that dps is the way to do it. Considering their main deal is buffing and keeping the buffs up, tracking those makes a lot of sense.
What I have personally noticed in the keys I've been doing is when I do well the other two dps's "overall" damage done is roughly the same. And when I do bad or a certain dpser dies alot, there overall dps is around 50-100mil less than the other dps who did good. Another thing I look at is the amount of damage fate mirror does between the two. Normally about the same but in the same scenario it's about 100k to 300k difference in damage. A theory I have is that when fate mirror is very similar on a good run I did well to maintain my buffs and prescience on them. When they have a bigger difference I did bad either miss timing or they died way more often than they should have
I've been meaning to ask this for a long time. What is the weakaura/addon you use to show a giant icon of an ability that has come off CD recently in the middle of the screen for half a second? I checked your pastebin with your WA/Addons but didn't see anything like that. Sorry if this has been answered before.
The only issue I have with Augmentation is if a dps dies during a pull, the evoker's dps is essentially cut in half. I don't believe they give more overall dps than a regular 3rd dps spot does. Currently it's a fun gimmick that is severely handicapped by requiring zero deaths.
This reminds me of when Disc Priests became a thing. healer logs for Disc sucked until folks realized they were mitigation, not output. Add the check box. show both.. either way dont matter until this gets seasoned!
The real dilemma is the community being overly concerned with numbers and not completion. Timing runs is stupid and should be removed imo and beyond that; timing isn't even sufficient.. people want the absolute meta at all times no exceptions for maximum efficiency and it's ridiculous lol
Maybe this is similar to disc priest recounts back in the day too, I seem to recall having to track heals and absorbs seperately and adding them together to see a disc priest's contribution...
I can see 2 solutions here. Add in-game hooks to allow addons to track Aug damage buffs and provide us with a full picture of Aug performance OR remove damage matters at all and let players play the game. Anyway, the current state is awful and imagine if we will have more support specs.. Also, I want to ask what is this addo you are using to get this flash effect on your screen when any of your abilities are off cooldown?
In-game meters have been a basic requirement for WoW for a long time. Especially in PUGs. I find it amazing they gave enough data for logging but didn't do it in a way that Details can read it. As an Evoker (and going forward I'll assume other classes) I think there needs to be enough information for Details to show a "Total Damage" (showing Augmented damage attached to other players) and "Players Damage" (without Aug buffs on other characters, but for Augmentation showing what they gave to others) ... probably with the second one being the default view. Otherwise people are just going to put "No Augies" in their group listing ... already seen that happening.
I think this class and the player base that chooses to play it has to be ok with being a support/buff type class. Its the same reason why Tank or Healer may not top damage but are expected to utilize their full toolkit.
Problem is people are uberly braindead, they only look details, see an Aug at healer dps and just scream "you're garbo, no damage and I still do same damage as before" which is false but eh again people are braindead
Yes, but you don't know how much supporting or buffing you're doing as recount / details don't give an accurate estimate. Let's say you have a group where 3 dps are doing 60k dps each. Now let's say you have a group where 2 dps are doing 70k each, and the augmentation evoker is doing 40k. The problem is that Augmentation evokers don't have anyway of knowing how much DPS the group would have done without them and with a Devastation evoker instead. They need to make it so when you check details to see your damage done, it should show you the extra damage you did as a result of the Augmentation evoker. Like if a DK did 100k dps, they should be able to check and see something like "Augmentation DMG 30k dps, death coil 15k dps, army of the dead 10k dps, scourge strike 8k dps" etc.
The main problem is, without the data being shown a lot of egg heads who just look at charts are kicking augmentation evokers cause they just look at the numbers and think they aren’t doing anything
@@dylano3163 Those eggheads are welcome to gimp their own raid teams. I played a healer for years, I know that protecting people from the predictable consequences of their own stupidity is a suckers' game. You can't force people to not be idiots. Kicking AugVokers from your raid is its own punishment.
I mean if one plays augmentation and complaints about it's damage, they simple have the wrong mindset for a support role. Their mind should be focused on how much uptime of various buffs they have on their targets, not their own damage contribution because if their uptime of the important buffs is high, they are dong what they should be doing and their dmg inevitably increases as their buff uptime increases.
Yeah but they still won't see it ingame You can worry about Buff uptime all you want but if you're always doing 55k to 60k dps and only the DPS of the other players in the group increases you won't notice it nearly as much as if you had the *actual* damage of the Augmentation always available to check
Aug is a great force multiplier for top tier players, for everyone else its just another problem that will plague wows endgame. You hardly know whats going on in wow anymore without a pile of addons and even then sometimes you dont. This will only further widen the gap in M+ where elitests get further ahead and others are just left asking themselves why they should bother even if they can complete the content.
FFXIV fixed this YEARS ago. I've never EVER seen someone get kicked out because of "low dps". People are stupid, treat them like it and everyone is happy.
@@WeltenbaumInc im sure top players still sim with outside tools. so its only the casuals that dont know theyre playing like shit. ignorance is bliss i guess
as far as im aware it is not that blizzard is not allowing addons to read this additional information but it is not implemented in a way that these addons can use because you need advanced combat logging to be active
they need to add a new combat damage number color: make it blue, all dmg added is blue colored dmg numbers so players know what is coming from aug vs themselves. shouldnt be that difficult to do.
@@Gorre022 agreed, and wouldn't it be awesome if you were pumping and all of a sudden you saw a shit ton of extra blue numbers popping up like pewpewpew. That's the type of reptile brain shit people like. Maybe some content creator will see my comment and start pushing the idea and blizz will take notice. Pretty sure thats the only way to get any kind of change in mmos these days.
personally i want aug to always be shit on the meters, but thats cus i find the whole point of buffing my teammates fun, so i wanna see how high i can get their number, not my own.
If a player is trying to base how well someone else in their m+ group is playing solely based off of looking at their numbers on the meters, that player doesn't understand how to properly assess skill level. "Feelycraft" is a trap that unskilled players use.
I was lucky playing whit friends and one was the new aug evoke. like you sad in the dungeon his dmg was like the heler, how ever after checking the logs every one who was in the party whispering him thx and wan him to join again
I've made a macro that I press at the end of M+ groups that reads basically, thank you for the group, sorry my numbers look like crap on details and they are not accurate, and Id be happy to explain how I impacted the group with WCL. Most recently I've been told by a few player they fully understand as they have been reading up on the spec in forums.
It's something that will obviously go away with time, more casual or disinterested players might take 5-10 runs to understand, others 5, and others knew it from the beginning
Im on the side: if we timing 21s we good, honestly damage is rarely and issue being clumsy and dying its what kills keys. "Low damage" is better than 0 damage.
Imo, the damage bonus should be shown as pet damage in details so each player can see the contribution while also being able to add it up to get some idea in game what they added over all. And then players can also ignore the pet damage to see how well they personally did.
if there is a way to separate most of the damage/buffs evoker gives, it should be applied to the augvoker. 50% dps swings shouldnt exist from outside sources
anyone complaining about how their dmg as an augvoker is dependant on the ability of their party members should not be playing a support spec. i fear there are many people being drawn to this class because it's the new, cool thing despite their mentality fundamentally opposing the philosophy of the class's design and its role and i hope the spec isn't changed for outcry of these people
It's more like wanting an easier way to be able how much of a Support you're actually being I don't mind having 50k DPS while the Mage I'm buffing has 300k. But what if I played badly and could have pushed him to 350k DPS? Only logs can tell. What if the Mage is bad, & another Mage could have done 350k DPS? Only logs can tell.
I fear for the first balance pass for Aug. Because of how it works, it is incredibly powerful in near BIS geared, well coordinated groups, but vastly less powerful for less geared pugs. If they balance it for coordinated, near BIS groups, it will be worthless in pugs. If they balance it for pugs, it will be broken for top groups. Also how can they balance Aug without nerfing the specs that benefit the most from the buffs? Quite the quagmire.
Augmentation Evoker is really really bad for the game. It might be good for top players and teams where the Aug can buff 2 top DPS but in the vast majority of keys the Aug will buff average players that die from time to time. Then the Evoker will be very very bad for the overall damage. Since instead 33% of damage is gone it's basically 50% if 1/2 DPS dies. The other bad aspect is the fact that's we have now 2 spots locked in for key +22 and above. Shadow + Aug Evoker. The 3rd spot will only go the the absolute highest DPS class which are no all 3 mage specs by a country mile. Now, with 2 DPS spots locked in, what will the off meta specs do? It was already very hard to get into a group as a hunter, feral or DH but now you can just forget about that completely. Hybrid classes and now Aug Evoker are way too strong. Teams need their off healing and utility since the healers were massively nerfed. I won't reroll to SP or Aug Evoker just to be able to play. Imo this will kill pug M+ for good.
You know what's. Bad for the game? Crying min maxers who use 50 add ons and track every single crap... Just enjoy the game and the challenges without making it a calculus course.. Your group managed to finish the content? Good.. Thats what it should be all about
@@Dragon211 this is always the catch all phrase, right? ok, let's think about it then. Let's say I got my key to 26 and want to run it. I need at least a SP and now and Aug Evoker. Why would these players waste their time running with a hunter when they have a way easier time to join a mage or SP? Trying to push high keys on a hunter, feral or other classes that don't bring anything is basically trolling.
I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that Evokers also buff the healer in a 5 man environment, but no extra healing gets attributed to the evoker. They also buff the tanks self healing, and that's also not taken into consideration in any logs currently. If they've balanced it so taht having an Aug buffs the 2 dps in the group to just the right amount that it contributes exactly the same as having a regular dps would, then Aug would still be preferable because of the free (not insignificant!) buff to the tank and healer
They also have a fairly large vers buff, contributing to damage reduction. Add that in as a sort of effective healing, plus the shield for the tank with scales.
I've been in 6 mythic plus dungeons with Augvokers. My average dps went from 180k to over 38ok. Our plan is heroic raid with two evokers. This way they can keep our dps up for longer. Just imagine bm hunter with pi, lust, and augmented on the big pulls leading to boss. Bet I can break 500k
Even seeing the buffed damage on the evoker dps meter, doesn't show the affect completely if a dps messes up rotation its gonna be less on the evoker dps. So def a problem but no perfect solution
I'm 100% a CE evoker main and I have no problem being on the bottom of details meters and seeing my abilities make my team mates do big damage. People need to stop complaining about it and realise the playstyle isn't for them if they can't stand small numbers.
I might be looking at this wrong. But Augmentation seems to just be a DPS with more steps. This may be just in the way “we” look at the game. Using M+ as an example. It’s a 5 player activity. If at the end of it, it felt just as difficult as if the Evoker was Devastation. It was the same results with some smoke and mirrors. The real test will be if their utility spells make the dungeon easier, or if it allowed a group to push a their key a level or two higher than they otherwise would have.
If the dungeon feels the same if he was Aug or Dev, then I think Blizzard did it right. I think they are trying to offer another way of playing the game without creating a system where every group will demand that a support player is in the group.
@@eliot2283 True, but it should feel the same in different ways. Devastation should feel slightly better for some scenarios, and Augmentation should feel better for others. On average, they should provide the same benefit.
Blizzard should banned all 3rd party damage meter addon in instance (raid and m+). And instead use the default wow UI (used in m+ tournment). They should make the UI will not shown any data during m+ run. But show numbers after the run is finished. I believe damage meter is a distraction addon during runs. People leave your mythic plus key because one guy in the group didnt do enough dps.
Well... i knew this would be a mistake and i am not disappointed. Yes. the meters should show their damage. But, yes. Then they will feel like every other DPS. This is not a different role. It's still a DPS and not only that, but one that depends on the performance of the group. If you got one bad dps, well... now you got 1.5 bad DPS. There is just no point to this. This spec was a big mistake. If they want to have a buffer role, it needs to be weighted against other buff roles and there should be one in every party. As anyone could tell, the buffer role has no in-between. It's either mandatory, or not worth it. If they want it to be mandatory, time to change more specs and expand parties to 6 or so and mandate a buffer spot. This is actually such a disastrous mistake that it is hilarious.
We were gearing my aug evoker last night. fresh 70 ilvl 345, and we were crushing 5-6 lvl keys! we were all ilvl 400 or lower. I’d say the class is working as intended
The entire point of a support class it to make people feel stronger. Just attributing all buffs to Aug as damage just invalidates the entire point. It's been less than a week. People will figure out what bad/average/good damage looks like with an Aug in the group.
They said they don't want specs with a 1-time buff, like Windfury, Blessings and PI to show as their own damage because the point of these Specs is not to be a support but a Damage dealer or Healer
I think the real issue here is the culture in wow being so centralized around an individuals dps and that being the absolute measurement of someone's performance. Sure it would be nice if we could directly see in-game how much an augvoker contributed to teammates' performance, but the way I see it it's just a matter of the average wow player being either too stupid or too arrogant to question why their own performance is suddenly so much better than usual.
It shouldn't be registered as "their" damage, they should have the damage they do personally then another damage number saying the damage they have added to the rest, that can be broken down to a per person basis. They can gauge how good they are doing by their damage (had an aug do 40ish k overall, and another one barely hit 20k etc), and the second contribution number will be at the mercy of how good or bad your team is / aug is aka too random to judge. And remove the boosted numbers from the team. End of the day pressing a button on someone while they work their arse off to make use out of it isn't "your damage" priests don't say all the PI damage the mage has done is their damage.
4 months later and people still don't know how Aug works, just yesterday I got called "trash" for having low dps cause on his meter it didn't count my buffs as my own damage. even though I was doing more than him if you counted them. i think it would just get rid of a whole bunch of toxicity if you just let it count as my damage rather than someone elses.
I have seen a lot of people complaining about the fact that they do below healer dps... specially people who's below 20s... It's just crazy to me that in 2023 people can't read... Still..
Aug damage should sit on the end of the bars of the other players as a small yellow section like how some addons show absorbs on top of health bars. That way the evoker can see their buff damage in real time.
They should just make it like the paladins blessing of season when it was applied to an ally it's damage that was done from the ability applied on the paladins dps not the one with the buff, so if the player did a 100k crit normally and when an Aug evoker buffs them and they hit a 170k crit the 70k should just get applied to the evokers dps making the meters match the logs
It would be nice if you queue for a dungeon/raid or try to join a group there is now a "support" option instead of just tank/heals/dps since augment doesn't classify under any of those really. That way if you are augment and you are trying to join a mythic+ or a raid group there is more specificity for your role. And the group can decide if they want the support there.
i played all keys on +20-+22 this week with my Aug Evoker but ist omega annyoing to upload logs after every run just to see if i did well or i played like shit.. it is an absolute timewaste that u can only see it in logs
if i ever go back and play wow i will never invite an aug to my m+ key or i will never join a team where is one, as a dps main i realy don1t want others to interfear with my dps, it could sound harsh but it is how i feel... if i can't do enough on my own i need to improve get better gear etc etc with aug you can't track where you at, and i don1t want to rely on another person with my numbers at all
Dragons can be #1 on logs and details. Just play Dev.... Honestly Aug is a breathe of fresh air. Smashed a 21 last night with a drunk pitpit and craig was hiking so we had to pug a healer.
i´d rather like to see my damage without the buffs added, makes it alot easier to compare my performance with runs where i don´t have an aug in the group
Pretty sure Sin Rogue got a stealth buff. Doing 20k more overall dps in a dungeon and my boss fights are around the same. Or, the evokers in each run were giving that boost, which seems more likely. In which case, another bandaid I don’t like.
FFXIV does the same thing, but there isnt drama around it because players "officially" dont know their dps. I dont know man. If blizzard adds more data for damage done, which could then allow us to calculate the damage accurately, that would be great.
@@RhadaGhast100 Right but what I'm saying is: imagine a world where the game is good enough that add-ons aren't necessary. I definitely use weakauras running m+ for sure, but I can also see where most of them could be built in. Or where balancing is good enough that you only had to check for ilvl to have a good estimation of success.
@@MarcoDuran I'm just not sure if they can do that or will is my problem. Like if they just made a few of the pvp addons baseline into the game along with allowing weak aura's it'd be pretty solid tbh. It's one of the reasons I had a lot of trouble getting into XIV, not being a pver and no weak aura's
Theres no excuse for someone to be running 16+ keys, be that involved in the game, and not know what an Augmentation Evoker does. "Casual" doesn't mean ignorant. It refers to the amount of time dedicated to the game. People who point out your low damage as an Augmentation Evoker are either trolls, or insanely stupid. Either way, you can report them for kicking you. It breaks the social contract.
The real problem is that aug is only as good as the other 2 dps. If u have aug doing bad damage, and the other 2 dps are kinda bad. The run feels freakin horrible lol
This. I play a Shadow Priest (sue me I know) and having an Augmentation Evoker easily doubles my dps in most cases but the other dps always seems to perform even worse when there's an aug in the group
No, the problem is the rest of what Aug does If Augmentation is only as good as the 2 other DPS, it's a net average DPS gain, doesn't really look that OP, right? But what about the Armor buff they give to the Tank? The 2000+ main stat they give to Tank and Healer to be more tanky and to heal 25% more? How about the 5% max HP + 16% max HP for 12sec whenever they use their own defensive? Or Breath of Eons giving out a 250k HP shield to the whole party every 100 seconds or so? That's the issue. Even if Augmentation was the bottom DPS Spec it would still be the strongest to bring because of everything else your average bottom DPS Spec would not be bringing
@Izenhart well yes they have tons of utility. But I mean just as far as damage goes. I pug in the 16 to 19 range and generally speaking alot of those players don't realize how strong utility is. I like the class but in the range I play it seems grps are harder with an aug
@Izenhart I think support in general is probably a net loss in the majority of pug content. In s structured grp with good players that's a completely different story
@Izenhart lol and last thing. When I said they are only as good as the other 2 dps, I mean the Augs damage highly depends on the other 2 knowing how to play well and use their buffs correctly
the Fact is majority of mid level casual players that dont read blue posts or forums and have no idea about what other specs do have no way of knowing that aug is buffing the shit out of others dam and thats why theirs is "low" in game is just going to continue to make them have animosity towards augvokers. your already seeing tons of people geting trash talked and kicked from keys before last boss because they just have no idea wtf is going on. blizzard NEEEDS to let addons like details use the same combat hooks that WCL is using or else its going to continue to be a shit storm
I'd like to see the damage you've contributed to other players treated as "pets" for Aug.
It'd be far better represented in Recount or Details if the damage bars per person simply recolored whatever portion of DPS that was granted by the Augvoker as a different color, as Warcraftlogs does it. That would show a DPS a direct reference and measurement of how much more damage they're doing.
they are 100% already working on a solution
i always wanted to have a pet dragon anyway lol
THIS!
I honestly feel like I'm the type of person Aug was made for. Making a ilvl 398 friend do 400k dps is the height of gaming for me!
Putting all that added damage back onto "my bar" would go against the "class fantasy". BUT, it has become painfully apparent that some people need to in some way be shown that it is because of the Aug that they are able to do that. Perhaps people will simply come to understand in time. But Pugging as Aug is a bit rough atm.
Warcraft logs shows it right
If they go that route then they should show all the buff contributions from every class, i.e. Power Infusion, Lust, MoTW...etc.
In interviews Graham Berger said that if you're playing Augmentation, you want to buff your allies, you want to see them doing a lot of damage, so attributing the damage to you on the in-game meters would take away from that. That made sense to me when I heard it. But just about as soon as I started jumping into dungeons as Augmentation I realized how bad it is to have no way of knowing how well I'm doing. And when you're pugging, it's not like you get to see your allies' "before and after" damage numbers. You don't know what their normal damage numbers would look like so you get no satisfaction of seeing how much they're increasing. It's a really bad feeling not having any of that feedback
The issue I see with Augmentation is, no matter how good the Aug player is, if the Dps he is buffing sucks, then it would be a bust. Also the reverse is an option, the Aug player is shit, in which case everyone would have preferred a 3rd Dps. In pug world Augmentation Evoker will just simply suffer the same as the rest of us.
@@termintot4645yes but aug buffs the entire group, not just one person. If one person is going to make or break your group, the group sucks lol. Same applies to good vs bad aug - bad player is bad player 😤
@Exrier yeah I was hoping it would’ve played more like I buff the actual players, and get to see them pop off. Instead, we just dps 🤷🏽♂️
they need to add a new combat damage number color: make it blue, all dmg added is blue colored dmg numbers so players know what is coming from aug vs themselves. shouldnt be that difficult to do.
This is why Blizz just needs to put out a damage meter of their own. They have all the raw data and could mimic other meters in presentation, it would basically be a combat log rework. All the information for the support class to improve and the DPS to know their contribution could be provided and players wouldn't have to guess with addons or wait until logs were available. They have been improving UI a lot already, they can help prevent supports from getting tarred and torched by adding in a Blizz-brand meter.
This dilemma is similar to one of pet classes back in original vanilla and even TBC. Damage meters originally did not include pet damage and when they did, pet damage was not included by default. The meters need to be allowed to show both the overall damage of players buffed by Augmentation and, the calculated bonus damage provided by the Augmenter as a separate parse.
Gotta use logs for all that
@@joserobertotrevinosalinas9910 All logs use the game combat log data to extrapolate and illustrate their metrics. The difference is in the presentation: Highly detailed or summarized, in-game or external, real-time or post action. Players need real-time in-game metrics to actively measure their performance.
But since the meters only show the buffed damage because of Augvokers, their raw damage compared to the output of other players isn’t really contributing to much other than relying on the other DPS to pull them through.
It’s seriously like you’re carrying them for rating.
As someone playing Devastation in raid, and naturally trying out Aug as one of the few evokers in my group, I'm still at a loss which would be better as logs don't really seem to tell the entire story yet. It "feels" like having one aug evoker would be of great value to a raid team, but difficult to judge with the current logs/details situation. First week and all, but hopefully this matter gets cleared up quickly. I could have sworn Blizzard said this would be addressable at launch, clearly it is not.
Hmm, might have to look at average week gear increases.
Look at average time to kill bosses.
And look at a few different weeks as both dev and aug.
if kill time is better as aug, despite everyone getting new gear, it may be alright
Same issue back in wrath for disc priest in raid. They were showing very low healing because the majority of their healing was absorption. I had to argue with my GM for two weeks and he kept threatening to replace me if I refused to go holy. Then I told him how to show combined absorbs and healing and it showed that my healing eclipsed the other healers combined. He dropped the argument with an "ok" and got in the other healers for being so low. He really struggled to grasp the concept that you can't heal what hasn't taken damage yet without overhealing.
At least he don't push to make every priest healer goes to disco, like my GM in Wotlk.
They have to do the logs like they are doing for FF with the Dancer Adps/Rdps.
This is entirely a world of warcraft community problem. I play Destiny 2, and in that community we've had dedicated buff/debuff classes for a *long* time, and while there are no dps meters, there are damage readouts at the end screen that shows how much each player did. Buff and debuff classes are seen as some of the most important classes, no one will *ever* complain about having one, because people are just interested in getting things done. No one has any illusions about where their high numbers are coming from in that game, this is unique to WoW and its community's overreliance on dps meters.
If Destiny 2 is such a good game, what happened to Destiny 1. BOOM, destroyed noob. No Augs allowed in my mythic run.
@@dess3597 fuck
@@dess3597augs are op why would you exclude them
It used to be similar when certain damage type resistances were a thing. Or cc'ing certain mobs in a group.
The community is the problem. People are ignorant to anything that requires more thought than “small number bad”
This comment is so on point.
I think the game design is the problem. Too complex.
Details has a option to see how much you contribute to damage as Aug, it's under options(combat log)
It’s wildly inaccurate currently, hopefully it will be more fine tuned but it doesn’t give a great picture unless using WCL
@@noahkast9562 Honest question: is WCL accurate? I did not read anything on how WCL calculates it but calculating how much damage you contribute buffing 3% crit chance won't be precise, it's just statistics.
@@voltsplagueno its not 100% accurate. Classes that rely on pet damage is not being attributed back to the evoker. Other than that, it gives you a general idea of what they're doing.
It's quite far off at the moment and as it stands is still has the problem of not being able to split pet damage for the Augmentation, meaning Demo or BM specs are just broken
@@voltsplague well think of it this way, if a demonhunter has 30% crit chance every time they hit it is like generating a random number between 1 and 100, if it is 30 or below you crit, if not you don't. If you have a 3% crit buff from aug it increases the range from 30 and below to 33 and below and if it is 31 32 or 33 then attribute the extra critical damage to the evoker.
We need both damage views. Once this settles down we will see player guides being split into “talents and rotation with an aug evoker in your group” and “talents and rotation without aug evoker in group”
The biggest problem I have playing as augmentation in m+ so far is that if one of the other dps' die it feels like the fight is over since you basically lost 1.5 party members and cannot recover the lost dps. It works great when everyone is working properly but can fall apart very quickly. Obviously that's a basic part of the class but it makes party member deaths even more disappointing.
Also can I ask what the average uptime most people are having with Ebon Might? The handful of 16's I've ran had me at around 64-67% and I definitely know I can do better.
It’s not as bad as you think when a dps dies. Our buffs don’t only buff the dps they buff everyone and it’s also not only dmg we buff. Higher tank survival, higher healer dmg, healing and mana management from source of magic. Obviously loosing a dps does suck more when you’re play aug but it aint that bad.
I think people to get away from damage meters in mythic+. Details should be used an a diagnostics tool, not a game in itself. Aug throws a wrench in people's playstyle where they aren't really playing to time the key, they want damage PRs. The game Blizzard makes for the players is "kill the boss", the game players make for themselves is "do the most damage". I think the spec is working as intended and doesn't need any fix to display what dps it contributes because at that point it's just another dps spec.
u are right,but 99% of the ppl will kick ur ass out of the group because ur "dmg is lower than the healer".The class is fine,the dmg meter is wrong
They turned Power Infusion into a spec?
Yes, exactly. And I don’t mind. The more we can mess with this excessive focus on DPS the better.
Yes, and it doesn't even have a 2 mind CD, insanely OP
If power infusion was AoE I guess you’re right 😂
Do you use anything that helps announce buffs to party members? I want them to be able to use the buff windows more effectively.
Lotro captain(support class) main here. As support your not supposed to be the main healer,main tank,big dps person. Your there to support your teams by buffing to get them to be healed more and do more damage. and to help alleviate the stress of the main healer or tank. If everyone in your group is alive when the raid is done and everyone had a great chill time. It means the augmentation evoker did there job right.
Yeah,u are right,but if u are kicked out from a pug because "the healer has more dmg than u",that SUCKS,all because of a stupid addon rule.Nice lotro class btw
@@shinhadou12 geez that stinks dude . I had no idea it was like that in wow. Thanks 😁 I love being a captain.
The (dmg) meters don't say anything anymore, it's being falsified too much with PI or now with the new spek, or simply missing raid buffs. The design of the class is also questionable if it buffs individual players and not the whole 30 group. Of course everyone will try to only 'buff' the best players.
Good for you playing with a mistweaver in that Neltharus run, Izen. I knew all the trash talk was just bluster 😊
I haven't looked at the patchnotes at all, but my mistweaver feels al lot better after the patch. Either it got buffed in someway or everything else got nerfed.
man this creature finished the run with 37k DPS...with an Augmentation in the group...
@@Izenhart The way you described them as "creature" just made me burst laughing lmao
@@Izenhartits been since 10.0 that ive done dungeons , are healers doing more dps now ?
@@00wheelie00Mythic plus dungeons were massively nerfed a few weeks ago, and MW got a tiny buff for 10.1.5
TL:DR Stupid people cause fuss because they don't understand how a new spec works.
I love Augmentation, they juice your damage so much. Doing AoE as a Fire Mage and just see number vomit as your attacks echo is orgasmic. Can't wait to get more support specs and classes.
As for which side, I think they should show the damage contribution as buffs.
There's a simple fix for the augment evokers who aren't happy with not seeing all their damage. You go to your talent tree and press the devastation button.
the only ppl that can't understand how broken aug is, are ppl that have zero brain cells. Avoid them at all costs.
There's a simple fix for the people who arn't happy with any small thing in wow. Quit the game! or You give the feedback to devs that want it so they can actually do something. People like you are lazy useless idiots.
Freaking love having an augmentor in there group
Run the key with the evoker. Run it without. Compare results. It's not rocket science. The class is good.
was the key completed? yes? then welcome to the group...people are so caught up in that damn dmg meter sigh. If someone has the lowest dmg but the highest number of interrupts and dispels how does that factor in peoples mind?
I've said it on a few other forums, but as an augvoker I've shifted my details to show buff uptime now instead of damage. That way i can track my own pwrsonal performance by keeping my main buff up >75% of the time in fights, and prescience up >80%. I'm sure there's either a weakaura or mod that can track it better, but that's how i measure my contribution now
That is actually not a bad idea.
Been wondering how to judge their performance, and do not agree that dps is the way to do it.
Considering their main deal is buffing and keeping the buffs up, tracking those makes a lot of sense.
What I have personally noticed in the keys I've been doing is when I do well the other two dps's "overall" damage done is roughly the same. And when I do bad or a certain dpser dies alot, there overall dps is around 50-100mil less than the other dps who did good.
Another thing I look at is the amount of damage fate mirror does between the two. Normally about the same but in the same scenario it's about 100k to 300k difference in damage.
A theory I have is that when fate mirror is very similar on a good run I did well to maintain my buffs and prescience on them. When they have a bigger difference I did bad either miss timing or they died way more often than they should have
Hi mate, what party frames addon is that? Looks clean!
The way I look at damage in a pug: If we time the key it was good, if not it might be the damage, but what's the use complaining.
How do you get kicked from a M+? The group disbands?
Before the key starts.
Yo Izen! Several month ago you compared all dps specs and classes during the life span of wow. Cant find it anymore, is it still available?
I've been meaning to ask this for a long time. What is the weakaura/addon you use to show a giant icon of an ability that has come off CD recently in the middle of the screen for half a second? I checked your pastebin with your WA/Addons but didn't see anything like that. Sorry if this has been answered before.
It's called Doom cooldown pulse.
The only issue I have with Augmentation is if a dps dies during a pull, the evoker's dps is essentially cut in half. I don't believe they give more overall dps than a regular 3rd dps spot does. Currently it's a fun gimmick that is severely handicapped by requiring zero deaths.
LMAO
@@sergiofulviotommasini2708he is right.
@@jurgenbuntinx1 I didn't say the opposite thing mate. I was just laughing because the comment made me laugh, I agree that he is right.
This reminds me of when Disc Priests became a thing. healer logs for Disc sucked until folks realized they were mitigation, not output. Add the check box. show both.. either way dont matter until this gets seasoned!
The real dilemma is the community being overly concerned with numbers and not completion. Timing runs is stupid and should be removed imo and beyond that; timing isn't even sufficient.. people want the absolute meta at all times no exceptions for maximum efficiency and it's ridiculous lol
Maybe this is similar to disc priest recounts back in the day too, I seem to recall having to track heals and absorbs seperately and adding them together to see a disc priest's contribution...
Beast master hunter does like 30% of the damage it's pets do, demon warlock is similar but we see that in the logs, we don't see evoker in the logs
I can see 2 solutions here. Add in-game hooks to allow addons to track Aug damage buffs and provide us with a full picture of Aug performance OR remove damage matters at all and let players play the game. Anyway, the current state is awful and imagine if we will have more support specs..
Also, I want to ask what is this addo you are using to get this flash effect on your screen when any of your abilities are off cooldown?
I use it myself, it’s called “Doom cooldown pulse”
@@bosspaw4028 thank you mate!
In-game meters have been a basic requirement for WoW for a long time. Especially in PUGs. I find it amazing they gave enough data for logging but didn't do it in a way that Details can read it. As an Evoker (and going forward I'll assume other classes) I think there needs to be enough information for Details to show a "Total Damage" (showing Augmented damage attached to other players) and "Players Damage" (without Aug buffs on other characters, but for Augmentation showing what they gave to others) ... probably with the second one being the default view. Otherwise people are just going to put "No Augies" in their group listing ... already seen that happening.
I think this class and the player base that chooses to play it has to be ok with being a support/buff type class. Its the same reason why Tank or Healer may not top damage but are expected to utilize their full toolkit.
Problem is people are uberly braindead, they only look details, see an Aug at healer dps and just scream "you're garbo, no damage and I still do same damage as before" which is false but eh again people are braindead
Yes, but you don't know how much supporting or buffing you're doing as recount / details don't give an accurate estimate. Let's say you have a group where 3 dps are doing 60k dps each. Now let's say you have a group where 2 dps are doing 70k each, and the augmentation evoker is doing 40k. The problem is that Augmentation evokers don't have anyway of knowing how much DPS the group would have done without them and with a Devastation evoker instead. They need to make it so when you check details to see your damage done, it should show you the extra damage you did as a result of the Augmentation evoker. Like if a DK did 100k dps, they should be able to check and see something like "Augmentation DMG 30k dps, death coil 15k dps, army of the dead 10k dps, scourge strike 8k dps" etc.
The main problem is, without the data being shown a lot of egg heads who just look at charts are kicking augmentation evokers cause they just look at the numbers and think they aren’t doing anything
@@dylano3163 Those eggheads are welcome to gimp their own raid teams. I played a healer for years, I know that protecting people from the predictable consequences of their own stupidity is a suckers' game. You can't force people to not be idiots. Kicking AugVokers from your raid is its own punishment.
I mean if one plays augmentation and complaints about it's damage, they simple have the wrong mindset for a support role.
Their mind should be focused on how much uptime of various buffs they have on their targets, not their own damage contribution because if their uptime of the important buffs is high, they are dong what they should be doing and their dmg inevitably increases as their buff uptime increases.
Yeah but they still won't see it ingame
You can worry about Buff uptime all you want but if you're always doing 55k to 60k dps and only the DPS of the other players in the group increases you won't notice it nearly as much as if you had the *actual* damage of the Augmentation always available to check
@@Izenhart yea for sure, that is true:
I don't disagree with your points in the video at all, your videos are always on point :)
Aug is a great force multiplier for top tier players, for everyone else its just another problem that will plague wows endgame. You hardly know whats going on in wow anymore without a pile of addons and even then sometimes you dont. This will only further widen the gap in M+ where elitests get further ahead and others are just left asking themselves why they should bother even if they can complete the content.
FFXIV fixed this YEARS ago. I've never EVER seen someone get kicked out because of "low dps". People are stupid, treat them like it and everyone is happy.
ye because damage meters aren't technically allowed lol
@@Dragores93 for a good reason I would say
@@WeltenbaumInc im sure top players still sim with outside tools. so its only the casuals that dont know theyre playing like shit. ignorance is bliss i guess
as far as im aware it is not that blizzard is not allowing addons to read this additional information but it is not implemented in a way that these addons can use because you need advanced combat logging to be active
I liked it the idea of a suport role, but so far my experience is meh, i can tell if im doing well or bad during the fight.
they need to add a new combat damage number color: make it blue, all dmg added is blue colored dmg numbers so players know what is coming from aug vs themselves. shouldnt be that difficult to do.
That’d be perfect 💙
@@Gorre022 agreed, and wouldn't it be awesome if you were pumping and all of a sudden you saw a shit ton of extra blue numbers popping up like pewpewpew. That's the type of reptile brain shit people like. Maybe some content creator will see my comment and start pushing the idea and blizz will take notice. Pretty sure thats the only way to get any kind of change in mmos these days.
@@TheNewOption I’m still struggling with my raid group delisting if I invite a party and it’s been almost a year lol
@@Gorre022 lol. true.
@@Gorre022 I mean they were able to add the +3 sec +5 sec +1200 stat or whatever shit, so I Dont see why adding a new number color would be too bad.
has details said anything of what they're going to do regarding this matter?
How can I see my dmg as DPS without Evoker buffs? It's possible on details?
personally i want aug to always be shit on the meters, but thats cus i find the whole point of buffing my teammates fun, so i wanna see how high i can get their number, not my own.
So should i get credited the damage for my int buff too then?
If a player is trying to base how well someone else in their m+ group is playing solely based off of looking at their numbers on the meters, that player doesn't understand how to properly assess skill level.
"Feelycraft" is a trap that unskilled players use.
I was lucky playing whit friends and one was the new aug evoke. like you sad in the dungeon his dmg was like the heler, how ever after checking the logs every one who was in the party whispering him thx and wan him to join again
Ouch! That recount comment hit this old guy hard. Lol
Honestly if you care about your own damage when playing a support class, don’t play a support class
My Recount using butt wasn't prepared to be called out like this
I've made a macro that I press at the end of M+ groups that reads basically, thank you for the group, sorry my numbers look like crap on details and they are not accurate, and Id be happy to explain how I impacted the group with WCL. Most recently I've been told by a few player they fully understand as they have been reading up on the spec in forums.
It's something that will obviously go away with time, more casual or disinterested players might take 5-10 runs to understand, others 5, and others knew it from the beginning
Im on the side: if we timing 21s we good, honestly damage is rarely and issue being clumsy and dying its what kills keys.
"Low damage" is better than 0 damage.
Imo, the damage bonus should be shown as pet damage in details so each player can see the contribution while also being able to add it up to get some idea in game what they added over all. And then players can also ignore the pet damage to see how well they personally did.
What if you already are a pet class? You'd be tracking my buffs as your pet? Better bring treats to mythic plus. Dragon is hungry!
if there is a way to separate most of the damage/buffs evoker gives, it should be applied to the augvoker. 50% dps swings shouldnt exist from outside sources
U can actually enable Augmentation buff prediction in details
anyone complaining about how their dmg as an augvoker is dependant on the ability of their party members should not be playing a support spec. i fear there are many people being drawn to this class because it's the new, cool thing despite their mentality fundamentally opposing the philosophy of the class's design and its role and i hope the spec isn't changed for outcry of these people
For real… if they want big numbers than go play a dps class.
It's more like wanting an easier way to be able how much of a Support you're actually being
I don't mind having 50k DPS while the Mage I'm buffing has 300k.
But what if I played badly and could have pushed him to 350k DPS? Only logs can tell.
What if the Mage is bad, & another Mage could have done 350k DPS? Only logs can tell.
I fear for the first balance pass for Aug. Because of how it works, it is incredibly powerful in near BIS geared, well coordinated groups, but vastly less powerful for less geared pugs. If they balance it for coordinated, near BIS groups, it will be worthless in pugs. If they balance it for pugs, it will be broken for top groups. Also how can they balance Aug without nerfing the specs that benefit the most from the buffs? Quite the quagmire.
Augmentation Evoker is really really bad for the game. It might be good for top players and teams where the Aug can buff 2 top DPS but in the vast majority of keys the Aug will buff average players that die from time to time. Then the Evoker will be very very bad for the overall damage. Since instead 33% of damage is gone it's basically 50% if 1/2 DPS dies.
The other bad aspect is the fact that's we have now 2 spots locked in for key +22 and above. Shadow + Aug Evoker. The 3rd spot will only go the the absolute highest DPS class which are no all 3 mage specs by a country mile. Now, with 2 DPS spots locked in, what will the off meta specs do? It was already very hard to get into a group as a hunter, feral or DH but now you can just forget about that completely. Hybrid classes and now Aug Evoker are way too strong. Teams need their off healing and utility since the healers were massively nerfed. I won't reroll to SP or Aug Evoker just to be able to play. Imo this will kill pug M+ for good.
You know what's. Bad for the game? Crying min maxers who use 50 add ons and track every single crap... Just enjoy the game and the challenges without making it a calculus course.. Your group managed to finish the content? Good.. Thats what it should be all about
so run your own key? i honestly dont see a problem here.
@@Dragon211 this is always the catch all phrase, right? ok, let's think about it then. Let's say I got my key to 26 and want to run it. I need at least a SP and now and Aug Evoker. Why would these players waste their time running with a hunter when they have a way easier time to join a mage or SP? Trying to push high keys on a hunter, feral or other classes that don't bring anything is basically trolling.
Aug evos dmg depends how good other 2 dps are an viceversa.
Playing with pugs aug its ok.
Playing with premade aug its op
I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that Evokers also buff the healer in a 5 man environment, but no extra healing gets attributed to the evoker. They also buff the tanks self healing, and that's also not taken into consideration in any logs currently. If they've balanced it so taht having an Aug buffs the 2 dps in the group to just the right amount that it contributes exactly the same as having a regular dps would, then Aug would still be preferable because of the free (not insignificant!) buff to the tank and healer
They also have a fairly large vers buff, contributing to damage reduction. Add that in as a sort of effective healing, plus the shield for the tank with scales.
I've been in 6 mythic plus dungeons with Augvokers. My average dps went from 180k to over 38ok. Our plan is heroic raid with two evokers. This way they can keep our dps up for longer. Just imagine bm hunter with pi, lust, and augmented on the big pulls leading to boss. Bet I can break 500k
Even seeing the buffed damage on the evoker dps meter, doesn't show the affect completely if a dps messes up rotation its gonna be less on the evoker dps.
So def a problem but no perfect solution
I'm 100% a CE evoker main and I have no problem being on the bottom of details meters and seeing my abilities make my team mates do big damage. People need to stop complaining about it and realise the playstyle isn't for them if they can't stand small numbers.
I might be looking at this wrong. But Augmentation seems to just be a DPS with more steps.
This may be just in the way “we” look at the game. Using M+ as an example. It’s a 5 player activity. If at the end of it, it felt just as difficult as if the Evoker was Devastation. It was the same results with some smoke and mirrors.
The real test will be if their utility spells make the dungeon easier, or if it allowed a group to push a their key a level or two higher than they otherwise would have.
Aug is way tankier (from what i've seen) and provides so many buffs. it's just way better. There are only 2 dps spots in m+ now.
If the dungeon feels the same if he was Aug or Dev, then I think Blizzard did it right. I think they are trying to offer another way of playing the game without creating a system where every group will demand that a support player is in the group.
@@eliot2283 True, but it should feel the same in different ways. Devastation should feel slightly better for some scenarios, and Augmentation should feel better for others. On average, they should provide the same benefit.
Blizzard should banned all 3rd party damage meter addon in instance (raid and m+). And instead use the default wow UI (used in m+ tournment).
They should make the UI will not shown any data during m+ run. But show numbers after the run is finished.
I believe damage meter is a distraction addon during runs. People leave your mythic plus key because one guy in the group didnt do enough dps.
Well... i knew this would be a mistake and i am not disappointed.
Yes. the meters should show their damage.
But, yes. Then they will feel like every other DPS. This is not a different role. It's still a DPS and not only that, but one that depends on the performance of the group. If you got one bad dps, well... now you got 1.5 bad DPS. There is just no point to this. This spec was a big mistake. If they want to have a buffer role, it needs to be weighted against other buff roles and there should be one in every party. As anyone could tell, the buffer role has no in-between. It's either mandatory, or not worth it.
If they want it to be mandatory, time to change more specs and expand parties to 6 or so and mandate a buffer spot.
This is actually such a disastrous mistake that it is hilarious.
But realistically how else could they do support? Debuff enemies? It's functionally the same. You have to heal, tank or DPS. There's no other options
We were gearing my aug evoker last night. fresh 70 ilvl 345, and we were crushing 5-6 lvl keys! we were all ilvl 400 or lower. I’d say the class is working as intended
The entire point of a support class it to make people feel stronger. Just attributing all buffs to Aug as damage just invalidates the entire point.
It's been less than a week. People will figure out what bad/average/good damage looks like with an Aug in the group.
They could have coded just a lot of blessing of summer-like spells and be done with it...
They said they don't want specs with a 1-time buff, like Windfury, Blessings and PI to show as their own damage because the point of these Specs is not to be a support but a Damage dealer or Healer
@@Izenhart But specifically blessing of summer shows as the paladin's dmg, even if it was casted on someone else.
I think the real issue here is the culture in wow being so centralized around an individuals dps and that being the absolute measurement of someone's performance. Sure it would be nice if we could directly see in-game how much an augvoker contributed to teammates' performance, but the way I see it it's just a matter of the average wow player being either too stupid or too arrogant to question why their own performance is suddenly so much better than usual.
It shouldn't be registered as "their" damage, they should have the damage they do personally then another damage number saying the damage they have added to the rest, that can be broken down to a per person basis.
They can gauge how good they are doing by their damage (had an aug do 40ish k overall, and another one barely hit 20k etc), and the second contribution number will be at the mercy of how good or bad your team is / aug is aka too random to judge.
And remove the boosted numbers from the team.
End of the day pressing a button on someone while they work their arse off to make use out of it isn't "your damage" priests don't say all the PI damage the mage has done is their damage.
4 months later and people still don't know how Aug works, just yesterday I got called "trash" for having low dps cause on his meter it didn't count my buffs as my own damage. even though I was doing more than him if you counted them. i think it would just get rid of a whole bunch of toxicity if you just let it count as my damage rather than someone elses.
I have seen a lot of people complaining about the fact that they do below healer dps... specially people who's below 20s... It's just crazy to me that in 2023 people can't read... Still..
Aug damage should sit on the end of the bars of the other players as a small yellow section like how some addons show absorbs on top of health bars. That way the evoker can see their buff damage in real time.
They should just make it like the paladins blessing of season when it was applied to an ally it's damage that was done from the ability applied on the paladins dps not the one with the buff, so if the player did a 100k crit normally and when an Aug evoker buffs them and they hit a 170k crit the 70k should just get applied to the evokers dps making the meters match the logs
It would be nice if you queue for a dungeon/raid or try to join a group there is now a "support" option instead of just tank/heals/dps since augment doesn't classify under any of those really. That way if you are augment and you are trying to join a mythic+ or a raid group there is more specificity for your role. And the group can decide if they want the support there.
Do you have a ui video?
i played all keys on +20-+22 this week with my Aug Evoker but ist omega annyoing to upload logs after every run just to see if i did well or i played like shit.. it is an absolute timewaste that u can only see it in logs
let people track their stuff in game ffs
if i ever go back and play wow i will never invite an aug to my m+ key or i will never join a team where is one, as a dps main i realy don1t want others to interfear with my dps, it could sound harsh but it is how i feel... if i can't do enough on my own i need to improve get better gear etc etc with aug you can't track where you at, and i don1t want to rely on another person with my numbers at all
feels bad when i got out dps by the resto shammy
You’re really not though. Details just doesn’t know how to track it.
Same things happens with paladins Blessings of Summers. I think it’s for the best
Dragons can be #1 on logs and details. Just play Dev.... Honestly Aug is a breathe of fresh air. Smashed a 21 last night with a drunk pitpit and craig was hiking so we had to pug a healer.
I feel like this "how good I am" mentality is rooted in blame culture. People who really care look at logs in details anyway.
4:18 just no. Fake damage is not the case. Players see damage role doing less than healler and just kiks you or call you names (happened to me)
i´d rather like to see my damage without the buffs added, makes it alot easier to compare my performance with runs where i don´t have an aug in the group
This is a good problem to me. When my DPS sucks, I can just blame it on the Aug Evoker!
Is thus the wows jump the shark moment? Or they change it to a tank spec
Pretty sure Sin Rogue got a stealth buff. Doing 20k more overall dps in a dungeon and my boss fights are around the same. Or, the evokers in each run were giving that boost, which seems more likely. In which case, another bandaid I don’t like.
this for sure needs to be changed
FFXIV does the same thing, but there isnt drama around it because players "officially" dont know their dps.
I dont know man. If blizzard adds more data for damage done, which could then allow us to calculate the damage accurately, that would be great.
I mean, playing both games right now, I'm slowly moving over to the Yoshi P opinion, and this only reinforces that.
Addons were a mistake LOL.
Idk some add-ons are pretty crucial. I actually can't play some classes without at least 1 weak aura.
@@RhadaGhast100 Right but what I'm saying is: imagine a world where the game is good enough that add-ons aren't necessary.
I definitely use weakauras running m+ for sure, but I can also see where most of them could be built in.
Or where balancing is good enough that you only had to check for ilvl to have a good estimation of success.
@@MarcoDuran I'm just not sure if they can do that or will is my problem. Like if they just made a few of the pvp addons baseline into the game along with allowing weak aura's it'd be pretty solid tbh.
It's one of the reasons I had a lot of trouble getting into XIV, not being a pver and no weak aura's
Theres no excuse for someone to be running 16+ keys, be that involved in the game, and not know what an Augmentation Evoker does. "Casual" doesn't mean ignorant. It refers to the amount of time dedicated to the game. People who point out your low damage as an Augmentation Evoker are either trolls, or insanely stupid. Either way, you can report them for kicking you. It breaks the social contract.
The real problem is that aug is only as good as the other 2 dps. If u have aug doing bad damage, and the other 2 dps are kinda bad. The run feels freakin horrible lol
This. I play a Shadow Priest (sue me I know) and having an Augmentation Evoker easily doubles my dps in most cases but the other dps always seems to perform even worse when there's an aug in the group
No, the problem is the rest of what Aug does
If Augmentation is only as good as the 2 other DPS, it's a net average DPS gain, doesn't really look that OP, right?
But what about the Armor buff they give to the Tank?
The 2000+ main stat they give to Tank and Healer to be more tanky and to heal 25% more?
How about the 5% max HP + 16% max HP for 12sec whenever they use their own defensive?
Or Breath of Eons giving out a 250k HP shield to the whole party every 100 seconds or so?
That's the issue. Even if Augmentation was the bottom DPS Spec it would still be the strongest to bring because of everything else your average bottom DPS Spec would not be bringing
@Izenhart well yes they have tons of utility. But I mean just as far as damage goes. I pug in the 16 to 19 range and generally speaking alot of those players don't realize how strong utility is. I like the class but in the range I play it seems grps are harder with an aug
@Izenhart I think support in general is probably a net loss in the majority of pug content. In s structured grp with good players that's a completely different story
@Izenhart lol and last thing. When I said they are only as good as the other 2 dps, I mean the Augs damage highly depends on the other 2 knowing how to play well and use their buffs correctly
the Fact is majority of mid level casual players that dont read blue posts or forums and have no idea about what other specs do have no way of knowing that aug is buffing the shit out of others dam and thats why theirs is "low" in game is just going to continue to make them have animosity towards augvokers. your already seeing tons of people geting trash talked and kicked from keys before last boss because they just have no idea wtf is going on.
blizzard NEEEDS to let addons like details use the same combat hooks that WCL is using or else its going to continue to be a shit storm