Probably one of the best unbiased reviews. I test rode one and it will be my next bike. I currently own a HD Street Glide touring model and will not get rid of it. Different bikes for different riding adventures. Main reason I would steer towards an HD PA is dealership network availability. For those who don't live near a huge city metro area, it makes a difference. I didn't get into the riding motorcycles to be a full time mechanic, I got into it to ride. I don't care if its an motorcycle, atv, boat, jet ski, whatever toy it is. Stuff does break.
Never been a fan of HD, but this one is certainly turning my head. Good job for HD to start expanding their horizons into the ADV industry. Also, your tiny hands B-roll is hilarious.
Thank you for the review. I enjoyed several points you brought up, including the point about the compression ratio and less than premium gasoline. I have ridden one myself, though only on road and just loved the bike. I am 5'11" and if felt like it was build for me. Fantastic engine, felt lighter and more nimble than I expected, and handled great on the pavement. They wouldn't let me take it off road, of course. I look forward to a middle weight as well and hope Harley does a great job with it.
Richard, it'll be interesting to see how you like the bike off-pavement, and who knows, maybe after your Training Expedition next month, perhaps you'll make a point to find out : ) Thanks for watching.
i just tried the standard version yesterday, and i was happily surprised of the qualities of that bike ! Premium Maxi-Trail indeed with Premium materials, i loved it ! thank you for your profssional and detailed review !! cheers from the Random French guy from Bali ;-)
Harley has the engineers to build anything. The pan America is their first bike to almost forget they make cruisers. I own a 2022 Bmw r1250gs and have finally found what may be the most competent and comfortable motorcycle for my needs. I didn’t get a chance to ride the Harley but my instincts tell me it’s equally impressive. What a great time to be riding these new creations.
Been researching for a while and test ride yesterday. This bike is in my near future. Probably 90% paved and an occasional dirt road and forest service road. I have had the revolution max for a year with the Sportster S and really love the motor.
I bought the base model Pan Am as I didn't really need many of the features of the Special as I ride it mostly on ride for touring. At 6'2" I also don't need the ARH to touch the ground when stopped but if I were to do it over again I would buy the Special with the ARH and then put on the accessory high seat that HD sells. The reason being is that I find the leg room right at the limit of what I find comfortable, if I were to put the high seat on I would no longer be able to comfortably reach the ground. I also find the stock seat to be a little too soft for long trips but that is likely due to my size - 245lbs - and a Corbin seat is in my very near future. I puzzle to understand why the rectifier/regulator is where it is but haven't had any issues with it yet so what do I know? Overall I'm very happy with my Pan Am after trying a few different bikes to replace my beloved 2009 Buell Ulysses. Ride safe out there.
Thanks for sharing, and yea, maybe that Adaptive Ride Height could have been useful. Wonder what they are charging to add it? Congrats on your fun machine, and yea, Corbin makes great seats.
@@RIDEAdventures In Canada the base model is $20,999, the Special is $24,199. Of course the ARH is only offered as an option on the Special due to the Semi-Active Suspension (the base model has regular suspension and is very good), the ARH is $1200. After taxes it comes out to $5060 plus another $800 for the spoked wheels should you want them. A pretty big hit but given all the extras that come with the Special it is actually probably a pretty good value.
Ha, ha. Come on, some rankings have Harleys as being more reliable than Austrian and German bikes at this point (but yes, still behind the Japanese brands in this regard.) If they would just call me, I'm sure we could come up with something reliable : )
New starter clutch fixed the high compression on starts, all other issues have been fixed with software updates, aftermarket parts are plenty to make it perfect for selective riding positions, protection etc. including a quick shifter. Shorter riders must try the Special and the reach seat options.
Cars and motorcycles have recommended octane numbers. Manufacturers realize some countries do not offer 91 octane for maximum performance. Antiknock/dieseling are software covered with less performance noted with non optimal fuel numbers. Works the other way also. If you fueled 91 octane in a vehicle that requires only 87 no increase in performance as just wasting money. Multistrada V4, Super Adventure, Ducati Desert X all running higher compression for improved performance as engine designed from factory vs someone changing the compression from non factory specs by changing to different pistons to increase compression. VVT and forced induction could be seen more frequently in bikes similar to cars. Direct injection may not appear like cars because of the faster rpm’s bikes require.
Please excuse my comment if history isn't your strong suit. Harley Davidson made it's name early in dirt track and flat track racing. Early HDs were made for all terrain as the road systems in America were developing. Harley and it's war bikes were made for all terrain and served our country long before the foreign manufacturers came to be. Triumph and BMW being an exception! Thank the "baby boomers" for HD getting stuck in the touring big bike market for so long. My 1965 Pan Head Electro Glide saw as much gravel with me leaving the family farm as most "off road" bikes due to circumstances. Electronic/computer driving aids weren't needed when riders maintained their own bikes. I believe we were better riders back then. Dependence on ABS and traction control sensors are the chief reason for riders incompetence. Poorly trained and limited experience riders speeding and taking risks while relying on the computer is in my opinion, the main reason for fatal accidents today. I grew up kick starting and controlling timing of my bikes. Modern riders can't even manually adjust timing on the fly or utilize a foot clutch or hand shifter, where is coordination? You all are in my prayers Hoka Hey
Just wanted to add a comment. I am not in the market for ADV bikes I am too old and all that maybe if I had a 125 Honda and friends I could go with I would consider it. I would have liked to see you take it out in the mud and see how it handled. I know everybody is different but I saw another review about this bike and the guy had some real trouble with it. That guy was shorter and he was out in the dirt to see what it would do and like I said he had some real problems. I don't want to beat anybody up so I am only going to talk generally and I am sure folks can find those videos if they search on UA-cam. I think he really felt about the same as you did in most of his review but since you mentioned the kickstand he had the bike fall over because the dirt was soft and he got it stuck on the center stand later I think because the suspension lowered when he stopped on a hill. Anyhow great video be watching for more :)
Thanks, and more videos ahead. Wish we could have played in the mud, but mud just isn't an opion here in Central Oregon's High Desert in the summertime.
@@RIDEAdventures their marketing team is incredibly conservative about their image and their image is tied to the V Twin and the cruiser aesthetic. They're in this hard place where they still have an aging demographic that wants that Peter Fonda Easy Rider thing to be the norm, and those folks have the funds for Harley's pricier offerings. Meanwhile that market is shrinking and with it, their established image. It's a tough balancing act to maintain that tradition while being open to change and revolution. They have literally 0 r&d into any other engine formats. This will mean a ton of investments, including new tooling and such, which is rough for a company that's been subsisting off of clothing sales and inflating their stock prices by buying up excess. It's risky to dump all those resources into unknown territory and it fail. But then again, I also never thought I'd see the day of a bar & shield ADV bike! So maybe I'll be wrong. I'd love to be wrong. As a die hard metric guy, I'm excited to see Harley's future. I'm hoping for a dedicated sports bike
@@RaijinTheThunder, we're cheering for them as well. Hopefully they are in-tune enough to change a bit, as noted, it seems necessary. Thanks for commenting.
I'm from Milwaukee too! Even worked in Grande Avenue Mall at the camera store (back when dinosaurs roamed freely). That 13:1 is a real issue. The PA that I demo'd has already blender'd its engine on someone else's demo ride. The dealer blamed the rider for revving up to 7k, but where's that rev limiter? They had to replace THE WHOLE ENGINE, it's not very modular. What if that happens when you are outside of your warranty? I'm guessing you might be looking at $5k or more. If the metric adv bikes aren't playing with compression ratios that high, how reliable can "The Motor Company" version be?
What's up my fellow Milwaukeean! Yea, it's going to be interesting to see when these PA's have some higher mileage, whether they're holding up or not. Fun bike in a lot of ways, so let's hope they hold up. Thanks for watching and commenting : )
@@ridingwithmarshall, yea, but they need to get away from that VTwin and basically just make a full-frame (not Stressed Member Chassis) version of the Tenere 700. In my opinion : )
@@RIDEAdventures I've said that for years, that Harley could show the world the power of American engineering again, if they would just let go of the same old heritage marketing. At least they finally discovered VVT, which I had on my 2008 Concours.
good review! While I agree that a middle weight would be great to have, not sure HD "needs" a parallel twin.. after all suzuki has one and it's doing alright. maybe having a V is what can distinguish them, a little like suzuki's or Moto Guzzi's engine
Thanks! If they want to maximize the suspension travel and ground clearance while keeping the seat height reasonably low, it's going to be tough with that rear cylinder on a V-Twin. Cheering for them either way.
I believe they need to work on this Dirt Glide first and fast, before adding another model..too many quirks like overheating, no quick shifter up and down, better windshield and refinement overall.
Jim, welcome to the fun times ahead as a new rider, and it's actually not a toilet seat as some people have asked : ) Just an old neck brace made by Alpinestars, something I explained the reasoning and use of in the video I'm linking here. Thanks for watching and the kind words: ua-cam.com/video/t6JJEFD1J1o/v-deo.html
Interesting review. Since making this video have you had any further experiences with the electrics ? was talking to an Owner of one andhe commented that the sensors on various systems seem to be overly sensitive. The bike itself was fine but warning lights going off is a bit irritating.
This would be a great bike for US Forest service fire roads and back roads with rough asphalt. I don't think I'd take it where an Africa Twin or BMW GS could go
3 weeks ago, I went up on a pass that's been closed for 5 years, washed out, rock slides. some places were steep, I was even 2 up, on stock tires. Took my time, it did well. The only limitation was me, I admit, I need some practice off road.
Right, but only recently now are they being used for bikes designed to take the pounding of off-pavement riding. Or the potential pounding anyway. We had 2 Customers break the stressed member engine on Honda CB500X's in Patagonia. Never know.....just how much pounding can these take. ------ Thanks for watching and sharing.
@@RIDEAdventures @RIDE Adventures I have no knowledge or experience with cb500x's but my zx-14 with a stressed engine took power lifts and huge wheelies (very heavy bike) for years with no problem multiple times a day (heavy right hand) with only blown fork seals. In short my experience there's lots of other things to worry about but the engine as a stressed member is last on the list (or close) for most bikes Thanks for the review and you're awesome for responding!
I used to ride in my younger years and then stop because of raising a family. Then at age 68, in 2018, I bought a Harley Davidson Fat Bob. I ride that Fat Bob all over America. My riding buddies think I’m crazy. And now at age 71 they think I have lost my mind completely because I want to buy a Pan-American.
I'm looking forward to buy one of these bikes but I'm worried about that regulator being so low, I do a lot of water crossings and it seems that it could be a problem. Did you tested it on water crossings?
Great review - I rode this bike on the road - amazing power and flow to the bike. With the new Kawasaki KLR 650 just out - is this a bike you would look at reviewing and/or adding them into your stable of adventure bikes for tours?
Yes, we still have the previous versions of the KLR in operation in Peru, and ran them for years in Patagonia. Just haven't bought the new one yet, as we've got a ton we're juggling right now. Will do a review on it for sure once we've tested it out. Thanks for checking in.
The title should be "Harley Davidson PAN AMERICA Special (with options) REVIEW | Pros & Cons". I have yet to see a review for the stock, non-special, but the few people I know that bought the stock, non-Special, are trying to dump them, they want their money back, The Stock version has no upgrade path to a special, and all the selling features are on the Special, or, like laced wheels, are options.
Hi Eric great review and Video. Here's my story. Several months ago now I traded my 1200GS for the PAS after road testing one here in the UK. Prior to buying it I had looked at all the YT video's and they were all positive, Of cause after buying it some appeared showing the issue's. There was of cause always going to be some given its their first Adventure Bike . Ok lets say here that its a great bike competitively praised and I don't disagree with many of your Cons except one in particular and it is the engine. Yes its technically advanced and has 150bhp but for me in comparison as much as I tried to like it compared to the Boxer engine it left me cold. I missed the torque of the Boxer as well. It was never my intention to take it off road so as you say it is a great alternative to a Cruiser. The other things I didn't like were the jiffy stand , the position of the indicator switch , the small foot pegs and gear change but mainly the fact it was a chain drive. Having thought about it I just didn't want the bother of having to oil the chain regularly. I suppose in truth I am basically a big fan of the GS. The only problem I had now was as much as I wanted to trade it in for a 1250GS I was now part of the Harley family and had made so many new friends and this Spring / Summer I plan to attend many Harley events. So what to do then ! Well what I have done is I have traded my PAS in for a Fat Boy as it seems to have the engine and character of the GS I had owned. Still got a GS on my mind though. Totally agree with what you suggest Harley should do but I would also add , oh yes I also didn't like the battery position , they should go from a chain to shaft because the market they are currently in is a battle with KTM , Multistrada and Triumphs new Adventure Bike will also be a competitor. Harley have made a great bike but it really does need to improve in the next edition. Stay safe out there. Ted
Ted, thanks for watching and sharing. Can't blame anyone for adoring the boxer engines that BMW has repurposed from airplanes into motorcycles so successfully. And yea, the simplicity of a shaft drive is hard to look past, unless we become one of the out-of-warranty individuals having to replace that system, sometimes costing ~25% of what the entire bike cost new. Gotta love the power delivery and efficiency of chains though. (Shaft drives absorbing more of that power than chains, and weighing a lot more.) But hey, great that we all have options, there's a crew to hang with no matter what bike we're on today : ) ---- RIDE on, and thanks again!
Hey Eric! I was wondering what do you think about the Royal Enfield Himalayan, even though I know you might be a bit too big for this kind of bike, would you suggest it to a beginner? I am 5"9 and 150lbs
Some folks have complained about reliability issues with the Himalayan, but its stature and size should be pretty good for beginners who match it. Go for it!
You are about my size.....and watching you ride.....your knees look like they are WAY out in front of you. It doesn't look comfortable. Did this bike have their "Tall Boy" seat on it and the 2 Inch risers installed? Just wondering.
I think the kickstand on this bike was a complete fail, they should not have mounted it to the engine case...... Being 6' 6 I should easily be able to throw my leg over the bike but it's very difficult to do. So i mount it like a horse but the kickstand being on the engine case I'm worried I'll break it off over the years of riding it. In addition to that the hard bags are too high on the bike. They should go down at least an inch. Also the bike has nothing on the KTM 890 ADV R. This bike is probably one of Harley's best performance bikes they've ever made but as far as going off road I feel like this bike is kind of a fail, outside of fire roads it's not going to be able to do much.
The next step is to make an affordable bike. Harley needs to win over the younger generation with a bike that's lightweight powerful and affordable. Hd's dwindling Rider base is going to be the end of the company if they don't turn it around.
Yep. Would be so great if they'd create a bike to rival the Tenere 700 within a 10% of the same price. Creating such a rival is possible.....but keeping the cost that low is probably a long shot for HD. Thanks for commenting.
This is not anymore off-road capable, than a super tenere, or a vstrom. But a hell of a lot more expensive. There is no common sense experienced rider will claim this bike to be as off road capable than a GS. But leave it to Harley to self proclaim it’s a competitor to the gs, and just put themselves ahead of the other adv bikes. Typical Harley bla bla bla.
Patiently waiting for a video of the Pan America being ridden on ice and snow - on urban roads in traffic and twisty country lanes. Guess that's never gonna happen :-/
Similar compression ratio to F1 engine? Hmmm, how often do they need stripping and rebuilding......If this bike is ridden in the same way and places as Africa Twin / BMW GS/ Yam Tenere it's going to be even more unreliable than Austrian bikes. It's a Starbucks bike at best because that's what its very obviously been designed for. And Oh-Oh, the side-stand is mounted directly to the engine casing. In better news, Eric does the best bike analysis on YT, reports very realistic facts.
Disagree. GS1250 is similair to PanAm, only smaller displaced adv bikes will take serious off roads. Decided to go for PanAM instead of GS1250 and not only for Starbuck visites, daily ride and some off road. Love the bike
For the entire first half you might as well have been reading their sales brochure. Specs and more specs. No actual review. Sorry, but this was kind of weak.
So....we should do a review....without listing the specs of the bike. Hmm. The next person would complain that we didn't list the specs of the bike, so......
Lol this is ridiculous HD. It's like calling a Porsche crossover SUV an off-road vehicle. Harley messed up the ONE segment of motorcycles that people can't get enough of. And they messed it up by an order of 3. Give us a truly off road worthy, lightweight 400 with none of those stupid gadgets. Stick to your styling and you'll kill it HD.
Harley finally coming out of the dark ages... hopefully all of the rent boys that ride them follow Harley out of the closet and into the real world 🤣🤣 🤯🤯👍😀
Did you deliberately leave out comparisons with the world segment leader and originator of dual sport class, the BMW R1250GS? The BMW is superior in every way! HD are relying on American brand loyalty to market an inferior product. It might work in USA, but nowhere else in the world. Chain drive? Really? You didn’t even mention it! And that ugly front end? Wow. Brave to market that. Over complex and poorly designed screen layout? You didn’t mention any of those. I guess you’re funded by HD?
Chain drive has the most efficient delivery of power, is lighter, and less-expensive (typically) than shaft-drive, still working just fine after all these years, and yes, the R1250GS is still a great bike as well. Just cause we didn't mention it (or about a half-dozen other big adventure bikes) doesn't mean we are sponsored by anyone. Fun to soak-up another random accusation though : )
@Mike Fu thank you for that definitive answer. So glad you provided results, evidence, and a clear understanding how how bikes are designed. Keep on trucking squid
All those electronics are definitely a con. Something to fail in the middle of nowhere. 13:1 compression ratio will definitely NOT work with what passes for gas in a lot of countries. Another con. Sidestand is bolted to the aluminum engine case. Major con. Radiator is exposed to whatever the front wheel can throw at it. Yet another con. This bike has way more cons than pros. No adventure bike needs that much power. My 2016 KLR650 has plenty of power to take me anywhere I want to go, which includes Prudhoe Bay AK. Adventure riding is not about speed. It's about going over or through whatever gets in your way. Why has nobody taken this thing to Prudhoe Bay yet? Are they afraid it wouldn't make it? Honda C90s have made it. Surely this $20K+ pile of electronics can do it.
KLR650 and PanAm are completely different classes of motorcycles. KLR is a dual sport, the PanAm is a road-biased adventure bike. It seems like you are not the right customer, and that's fine. Don't buy it, you never were going to. Ride your ride and let people enjoy theirs the way they want to. I rode the PanAm for a couple hours. While I wouldn't buy it because it's a bit out of my price range, I did absolutely enjoy the experience. Oh, by the way, even a normal Harley can make the trek up to Prudhoe Bay, that's no astounding feat. It's more a test of the rider than the bike.
Yeah.. but how long did it take them to build this? All the other builders will just leapfrog it within a year or two. While Harley will run that motor for the next 10- 50 years.
And how long did it take BMW to make a decent bike? A long time and they’re still fairly unreliable…. I’ve ridden a GS and for a first attempt HD did amazing. I’d take this over the other I’ve ridden.
I love my Pan America. It is such a fun bike to ride. I rode it to Alaska (Deadhorse) and back from Southern California (9000 Miles) and it performed flawlessly. I just got back from a ride down the Baja Peninsula last week (1000 miles) and I had a couple problems. The chain stretched to where I couldn't adjust it anymore, and about 60 miles south of the Border, my stator failed, which caused the battery to drain. However, these problems could happen to any brand. Probably my main upgrade to the Pan America would be to switch to a shaft drive. I know the chain is better for off road, but the Pan America is never going to be a hard core off roader. It's more dirt roads and forest roads. Anyway, thought I would share my experience and 2 cents.
Glad to hear you're enjoying your PA. You're putting in some good miles. I have a KTM 1290 SA now and was thinking about replacing it within the next year. I've done a few test rides on the PA and must say that HD has done a nice job. Out of the gate, they seemed to have done a lot of homework to make a competitive bike. This is totally outside the box for them. They stepped on the competitors home field. They didn't hit a home run, but I think they slid into 3rd base. Way to swing HD. I've never been a big HD fan for the most part. Having a touring BMW and a KTM ADV bike, I Am pulling for HD in this segment. Hopefully they will stick with it and continue to improve the platform. Safe travels and many miles / adventures in the future.
You mentioned the ride to Deadhorse, what did you think of that experience? Been to the mid-west and west coast out of Pennsylvania. Heading to AZ and UT, again summer of 24. I have Alaska on my must do ride bucket list. That's going to be approximately 13000 mile trip from Pa. I even have a also retired ex-coworker that now lives in Delta Junction. That's southeast of Fairbanks. He's looking for me to stop in when I get to AK. Lots of planning, but it would be a epic ride.
@@curtissmith8789 Thanks Curtis. I recently sold the Pan American. It just so happens I was at a BMW motorcycle dealer , looking at their bikes. When I was ready to leave, my PA wouldn't start. The BMW dealership was so nice. They had their mechanic look at it (he used to be a Harley mechanic) and he couldn't get it started. They offered to take it as a trade-in, and I accepted. I now ride a 2023 GS 1250 Adventure. I plan to do a video soon a post it on my site.
What are you thinking about your 1250 GSA. My riding partner has one, he loves it. I think it's a very nice bike. I really like it too. If you're looking at a ADV bike, it's hard to dismiss a BMW. I will say everyone that rode a PA liked it.
I rode my Yamaha FZ1 to the Pan America Demo. I expected the PA to feel slow... But in sport mode it was almost as much of a rocket as my FZ1. Incredible that a bike can handle the road at 136 Mph (Fastest my riding partner took it) and then ride dirt.
I find your information about the Pan American to be accurate mostly from one who actually own one with 6 other motorcycles If you change out the stock HD tires to the more aggressive ones they have for the PA , you will find it to be a very capable bike . The only really bad thing I have found about the PA isn't with the bike .How HD put the bike out there with out really educating the dealers and their mechanics about them 1st . Also the backlog for getting accessories from them is ridiculous I find it kind of sad of all the haters out there , most of them who actually never ridden the PA or even a Harley . It's not about brand of bike you ride , it's about the ride . What ever bike works for you is good . I never rode or owned a motorcycle I didn't like and wish I would have kept them all . They all have different personalities
My black HD aluminum panniers are still on back order for my 2022 PA. Picking the bike up on the 11th of April come hell or high water. Will use a 20L dry pack on the tail if necessary until the HD accessories arrive. Very frustrating
I’m a little late to this party but agree with the dealer debut. That seems to be on par with how they (dealers) handled the Buell years. I’ve owned many bikes and finally an HD (FLSL) but my riding is very dirt (road) oriented. Pan am would fit the bill but I’ve had a GS that excelled in that. I’m fortunate to have a few bikes that can do their intended “jobs”. Good on Harley for this bike, but now get the bricks and mortar to back them up. Accessories, if the MoCo can’t supply there are others that will.. cheers
I completely agree, HD should make a middle weight. Keep refining the Pan America as well. HD challenged the GS, but fell short. HD did an outstanding job though. Ride ADV, you guys always doing an outstanding job.
Comfortably, thanks! Hard to imagine how they could be cost-competitive with for example, the T7, but regardless, there are enough Harley enthusiasts out there that they could really grab some of that middleweight market. Hope so.
Bret did a review and showed that the side stand was attached to the engine, would make me pretty nervous to pivot the bike out of a tight spot using the stand.
Yea, we somehow missed mentioning that. Probably not the rugged type of adventure bike one would get into such situations anyway, but a good reminder why not to.
SO HD have a look at the Harley-Davidson XA 740 from WW2: Shaft drive maybe taller suspension with an Ealres fork idea up font and modern brakes .. If you keep the look of the old bike you will sell a ton of them . It is a bike HD made for the North African War . Great back story of sales :)
A middleweight ADV with that self-lowering base? Might give it a second thought, as I am just too short for a T7...Harley should gain a bit of speed though, as the Honda Transalp seems to be joining the game, too...
100% agree! I live in the metro Milwaukee area and have friends that worked for Harley. Definitely want to see a great American motorcycle company succeed! Hey Harley, listen to this man, produce a mid-size adventure bike, and make it affordable for the working man!
Kevin, let'em hear it! Thanks for the note. Probably a long-shot that they'd end up anywhere near the pricing of the Yamaha's and Hondas, but Harley is also the type of company that doesn't need to worry so much about being price-competitive. Hope they do it, and consult with me on the design of the middle-weight ADV bike. -- Eric
I totally agree that they need a middle weight bike. I bought a Tiger 900 just for that reason. The 1200 and the GS were both WAY too tall and heavy. Pan America has definitely got me interested, but the current one is too heavy for me.
I’d like to see this bike lose 40 pounds, get more ground clearance and a 21/18 wheel combo, and at least be as loud as a KTM/Triumph. The one that goes by my job every day is so quiet you’d think it was a GS or V Strom
Overall great video. Only problem I had was with the comparison of the compression ratios to a completely different class of ADV bikes. The PanAm's 13:1 ratio is comparable to the BMW 1250 GS's 12.5:1 and the KTM 1290 Super Adventure's 13.1:1. I agree with the concerns over accessibility to higher octane fuels in remote locations though, and what that looks like over the lifetime of a yet to be tested engine.
Side stand also is bolted directly to the engine case..by 3 bolts..could be a problem if stressed to much...i was surprised to hear that as I own a 23 special.. I love it so far..
The PANAMERICA 1250 special has arrived in the top class of adventure motorcycles. Since 26.06.2020 I own a PAN Special beside my BMW GS 1250 HPA. With my friends from K+M Harleyworld we got startet with the project 1-100.000 km. Our vision is to check the usability, the reliability and the sustainability of the new HD Motorcycle. Challenge 1 and 2 related to the usability and reliability was already completed end of October. We mounted a lot of useful stuff to make the Pan really usable for off-road adventures. Therefore a lot of innovations are mounted on my PAN „Elvis“ to make it fit for purpose. Then we crossed all high alp passes on gravel and asphalt in July. In August we went to the island of corse to cross also all high passes under high temperature conditions (40 degrees or hotter outside temp) At least my PAN has felt sand under its tyres for the first time. In September / October we got started with challenge 2. We moved to Morocco to the high Atlas region. We crossed all high Atlas passes including the Col de Ouano on gravel, we circled the big duna of Erg Chebbi on old rally Dakar tracks and we checked out heavy city traffic under high temperature conditions. Result: The PAN collected during 4 month almost 30577 km on its meter. Almost 15% of this driven kilometers where been carried out on unsaved roads, mud, gravel or sand. So unter the line the PAN made it on all playgrounds where the competitor brands usually run their shows. This without breakdown or other serious problems….. On 31st October, I have shipped my PAN to Chile. On 3rd of January 2022 I will start my adventure „all the way up“ riding the Panamericana highway from Argentina to Alaska. This last and long lasting test is mainly relayed to the point sustainability. Chapeau Harley at this point… If you are interested, check out Biker.Jo on UA-cam or Instagram …KR Jo
ARH needs to have the electronics to be able to turn it off in all modes totally. Try it with a tall seat and the side stand is almost impossible to use safely without pitching it too far to the right. At the moment, the only way of getting rid of the ARH is to create a custom mode but then one will have to return to that custom mode if one has been in a standard mode say enduro or rain before stopping. I have heard that maybe dealers can turn it off and if someone can tell me how to do that permanently, I would be grateful. Thank you.
So the cons are things that may go wrong but now almost two years in haven’t. And the ground clearance sure is your gonna use this bike 90% off road which why would anyone buy this for that ? Just saying.
With the popularity of the adventure bikes, it's wise of HD to jump into this. I'd like to see the Pan America with a shaft drive, but it looks like a capable, do everything bike.
100% agree with review and that HD needs a midsize. I ride a rare Honda CL400.. only made for 2 years.. scrambler style. Harley could even use their 750cc engine. Tune it for low end.. that bike is already small. Make a new frame.. Honda is bringing back Transalp. And possibly a CL500 and maybe even Africa Twin back to a 650-750.. Harley will be left behind
Somehow Harley has not yet called their hometown homeboy (me) to consult on the development of that midsize bike. Their target is simple: Yamaha's T7. Just a few small, easy, and obvious changes to that bike, and they'll OWN the market. (Although I'm not sure how they'd compete on that price or reliability.) --- Thanks for watching.
thanks for the insight, i just brought one and looking forward to picking it up, sounds like its going to be great up here in the nothern teritory of Austrailai
Probably one of the best unbiased reviews. I test rode one and it will be my next bike. I currently own a HD Street Glide touring model and will not get rid of it. Different bikes for different riding adventures. Main reason I would steer towards an HD PA is dealership network availability. For those who don't live near a huge city metro area, it makes a difference. I didn't get into the riding motorcycles to be a full time mechanic, I got into it to ride. I don't care if its an motorcycle, atv, boat, jet ski, whatever toy it is. Stuff does break.
Thanks for saying so, and good point about the incredibly strong Harley dealer network. RIDE on!
Never been a fan of HD, but this one is certainly turning my head. Good job for HD to start expanding their horizons into the ADV industry. Also, your tiny hands B-roll is hilarious.
Ha, thanks for saying so. Garrett was so excited about the tiny hands.
Thank you! I learned a lot from this video. Your riding and scenic shots are also first class.
Thanks! Nice job on your videos. We're trying to catch up with you : )
And the tiny hands B-roll. Brilliant 🤣
At my age, no hard hitting single tracks, so 50/50 street and dirt roads/fire breaks for me. My Pan America is perfect. Replaced my V-Rod.
This is my 4th Harley and is my favorite bike
Excellent review as usual, Eric. I think the PA is a cool bike for sure - bravo to Harley on their first generation ADV. bike.
Thanks, and let's coax them into making the middleweight!
Thank you for the review. I enjoyed several points you brought up, including the point about the compression ratio and less than premium gasoline. I have ridden one myself, though only on road and just loved the bike. I am 5'11" and if felt like it was build for me. Fantastic engine, felt lighter and more nimble than I expected, and handled great on the pavement. They wouldn't let me take it off road, of course. I look forward to a middle weight as well and hope Harley does a great job with it.
Richard, it'll be interesting to see how you like the bike off-pavement, and who knows, maybe after your Training Expedition next month, perhaps you'll make a point to find out : ) Thanks for watching.
Nice bike, but I will stick with my 1290 KTM SAS
i just tried the standard version yesterday, and i was happily surprised of the qualities of that bike ! Premium Maxi-Trail indeed with Premium materials, i loved it ! thank you for your profssional and detailed review !! cheers from the Random French guy from Bali ;-)
Thanks for saying so! Have fun if you buy the HD : )
Harley has the engineers to build anything. The pan America is their first bike to almost forget they make cruisers. I own a 2022 Bmw r1250gs and have finally found what may be the most competent and comfortable motorcycle for my needs. I didn’t get a chance to ride the Harley but my instincts tell me it’s equally impressive. What a great time to be riding these new creations.
Lots of great options out there for sure, but that Beemer you're riding sure is highlight. Enjoy, thanks for watching, and RIDE on!
Great review Eric! Now I know the bike is much better than we GS fanboys like it to be. Hope HD listens to you, you've got very valid points there.
Thanks for saying so, and yea, let's cheer-on 'ol Harley to do this.
Been researching for a while and test ride yesterday. This bike is in my near future. Probably 90% paved and an occasional dirt road and forest service road. I have had the revolution max for a year with the Sportster S and really love the motor.
The motor is a lot of fun for sure. Have fun if you get one : )
I bought the base model Pan Am as I didn't really need many of the features of the Special as I ride it mostly on ride for touring. At 6'2" I also don't need the ARH to touch the ground when stopped but if I were to do it over again I would buy the Special with the ARH and then put on the accessory high seat that HD sells. The reason being is that I find the leg room right at the limit of what I find comfortable, if I were to put the high seat on I would no longer be able to comfortably reach the ground. I also find the stock seat to be a little too soft for long trips but that is likely due to my size - 245lbs - and a Corbin seat is in my very near future.
I puzzle to understand why the rectifier/regulator is where it is but haven't had any issues with it yet so what do I know?
Overall I'm very happy with my Pan Am after trying a few different bikes to replace my beloved 2009 Buell Ulysses. Ride safe out there.
Thanks for sharing, and yea, maybe that Adaptive Ride Height could have been useful. Wonder what they are charging to add it? Congrats on your fun machine, and yea, Corbin makes great seats.
@@RIDEAdventures In Canada the base model is $20,999, the Special is $24,199. Of course the ARH is only offered as an option on the Special due to the Semi-Active Suspension (the base model has regular suspension and is very good), the ARH is $1200. After taxes it comes out to $5060 plus another $800 for the spoked wheels should you want them. A pretty big hit but given all the extras that come with the Special it is actually probably a pretty good value.
Harley Davidson was listening to you about that middleweight bike right up until you said make it reliable. Then they left the chat.
Ha, ha. Come on, some rankings have Harleys as being more reliable than Austrian and German bikes at this point (but yes, still behind the Japanese brands in this regard.) If they would just call me, I'm sure we could come up with something reliable : )
New starter clutch fixed the high compression on starts, all other issues have been fixed with software updates, aftermarket parts are plenty to make it perfect for selective riding positions, protection etc. including a quick shifter.
Shorter riders must try the Special and the reach seat options.
The tiny hand had me in stitches
Garrett's contribution, among many others : )
Thanks for sharing. Grass sucks when its wet. Glad you made it out ok.
Easy on that front brake when on wet grass
Cars and motorcycles have recommended octane numbers. Manufacturers realize some countries do not offer 91 octane for maximum performance. Antiknock/dieseling are software covered with less performance noted with non optimal fuel numbers. Works the other way also. If you fueled 91 octane in a vehicle that requires only 87 no increase in performance as just wasting money. Multistrada V4, Super Adventure, Ducati Desert X all running higher compression for improved performance as engine designed from factory vs someone changing the compression from non factory specs by changing to different pistons to increase compression. VVT and forced induction could be seen more frequently in bikes similar to cars. Direct injection may not appear like cars because of the faster rpm’s bikes require.
Good review. Terrific filmography. Nice balanced narrative. Thanks
Much appreciated! Thanks for noticing, definitely a Team effort making these, but we have fun : )
Please excuse my comment if history isn't your strong suit. Harley Davidson made it's name early in dirt track and flat track racing. Early HDs were made for all terrain as the road systems in America were developing. Harley and it's war bikes were made for all terrain and served our country long before the foreign manufacturers came to be. Triumph and BMW being an exception! Thank the "baby boomers" for HD getting stuck in the touring big bike market for so long.
My 1965 Pan Head Electro Glide saw as much gravel with me leaving the family farm as most "off road" bikes due to circumstances. Electronic/computer driving aids weren't needed when riders maintained their own bikes. I believe we were better riders back then. Dependence on ABS and traction control sensors are the chief reason for riders incompetence. Poorly trained and limited experience riders speeding and taking risks while relying on the computer is in my opinion, the main reason for fatal accidents today.
I grew up kick starting and controlling timing of my bikes. Modern riders can't even manually adjust timing on the fly or utilize a foot clutch or hand shifter, where is coordination?
You all are in my prayers
Hoka Hey
Another great review Eric. Well done
Thanks! Quite a bike, but we won't be running them in Patagonia anytime soon : )
The cooler is very low also and will get hammered with stones off-road.
Just wanted to add a comment. I am not in the market for ADV bikes I am too old and all that maybe if I had a 125 Honda and friends I could go with I would consider it. I would have liked to see you take it out in the mud and see how it handled. I know everybody is different but I saw another review about this bike and the guy had some real trouble with it. That guy was shorter and he was out in the dirt to see what it would do and like I said he had some real problems. I don't want to beat anybody up so I am only going to talk generally and I am sure folks can find those videos if they search on UA-cam. I think he really felt about the same as you did in most of his review but since you mentioned the kickstand he had the bike fall over because the dirt was soft and he got it stuck on the center stand later I think because the suspension lowered when he stopped on a hill. Anyhow great video be watching for more :)
Thanks, and more videos ahead. Wish we could have played in the mud, but mud just isn't an opion here in Central Oregon's High Desert in the summertime.
I like this review. Very comprehensive. I would be more interested in a middle weight than a 1250.
Love the honest review man thank you!
I can't wait for the first side stand pivot turn caught on camera. It'll probably be quite a hilarious video.
Hi Eric as usual excellent review 💕 it on every review you explain on each adv bike 👍. Hi from yaakob 🇸🇬
Thanks for the great feedback! More videos ahead : )
Great job. Subscribed
Awesome, thank you!
Who is your insurance company for renting motorcycles? Thanks
Great review thanks man 👍👍
Harley will never make a Parallel Twin. They'll make a V4 before they make a P-Twin, imo.
That being said, I loved the Pan Am when I demo'ed it.
Curious, why wouldn't they? (Aside from the general hesitation to do anything other than a VTwin.)
@@RIDEAdventures their marketing team is incredibly conservative about their image and their image is tied to the V Twin and the cruiser aesthetic.
They're in this hard place where they still have an aging demographic that wants that Peter Fonda Easy Rider thing to be the norm, and those folks have the funds for Harley's pricier offerings. Meanwhile that market is shrinking and with it, their established image. It's a tough balancing act to maintain that tradition while being open to change and revolution.
They have literally 0 r&d into any other engine formats. This will mean a ton of investments, including new tooling and such, which is rough for a company that's been subsisting off of clothing sales and inflating their stock prices by buying up excess. It's risky to dump all those resources into unknown territory and it fail.
But then again, I also never thought I'd see the day of a bar & shield ADV bike! So maybe I'll be wrong. I'd love to be wrong.
As a die hard metric guy, I'm excited to see Harley's future. I'm hoping for a dedicated sports bike
@@RaijinTheThunder, we're cheering for them as well. Hopefully they are in-tune enough to change a bit, as noted, it seems necessary. Thanks for commenting.
I'm from Milwaukee too! Even worked in Grande Avenue Mall at the camera store (back when dinosaurs roamed freely). That 13:1 is a real issue. The PA that I demo'd has already blender'd its engine on someone else's demo ride. The dealer blamed the rider for revving up to 7k, but where's that rev limiter? They had to replace THE WHOLE ENGINE, it's not very modular. What if that happens when you are outside of your warranty? I'm guessing you might be looking at $5k or more. If the metric adv bikes aren't playing with compression ratios that high, how reliable can "The Motor Company" version be?
What's up my fellow Milwaukeean! Yea, it's going to be interesting to see when these PA's have some higher mileage, whether they're holding up or not. Fun bike in a lot of ways, so let's hope they hold up. Thanks for watching and commenting : )
@@RIDEAdventures I also agree about needing a middleweight, like, how about a Sportster SCRAMBLER??
@@ridingwithmarshall, yea, but they need to get away from that VTwin and basically just make a full-frame (not Stressed Member Chassis) version of the Tenere 700. In my opinion : )
@@RIDEAdventures I've said that for years, that Harley could show the world the power of American engineering again, if they would just let go of the same old heritage marketing. At least they finally discovered VVT, which I had on my 2008 Concours.
All fixed with new started clutch
Love the Lil hand lol great review
good review! While I agree that a middle weight would be great to have, not sure HD "needs" a parallel twin.. after all suzuki has one and it's doing alright. maybe having a V is what can distinguish them, a little like suzuki's or Moto Guzzi's engine
Thanks! If they want to maximize the suspension travel and ground clearance while keeping the seat height reasonably low, it's going to be tough with that rear cylinder on a V-Twin. Cheering for them either way.
I believe they need to work on this Dirt Glide first and fast, before adding another model..too many quirks like overheating, no quick shifter up and down, better windshield and refinement overall.
Excellent video! Thank you. New rider here and a quick probably silly question, what is the white piece of gear around your neck, Alpinestars?
Jim, welcome to the fun times ahead as a new rider, and it's actually not a toilet seat as some people have asked : ) Just an old neck brace made by Alpinestars, something I explained the reasoning and use of in the video I'm linking here. Thanks for watching and the kind words: ua-cam.com/video/t6JJEFD1J1o/v-deo.html
Interesting review. Since making this video have you had any further experiences with the electrics ? was talking to an Owner of one andhe commented that the sensors on various systems seem to be overly sensitive. The bike itself was fine but warning lights going off is a bit irritating.
We only had that bike for a couple of days, and have not seen it since. Let's see what others have to say.
This would be a great bike for US Forest service fire roads and back roads with rough asphalt. I don't think I'd take it where an Africa Twin or BMW GS could go
3 weeks ago, I went up on a pass that's been closed for 5 years, washed out, rock slides. some places were steep, I was even 2 up, on stock tires. Took my time, it did well. The only limitation was me, I admit, I need some practice off road.
Many other types of motorcycle have used the engine as a stressed member for 30 years with very few failures or problems
Right, but only recently now are they being used for bikes designed to take the pounding of off-pavement riding. Or the potential pounding anyway. We had 2 Customers break the stressed member engine on Honda CB500X's in Patagonia. Never know.....just how much pounding can these take. ------ Thanks for watching and sharing.
@@RIDEAdventures @RIDE Adventures I have no knowledge or experience with cb500x's but my zx-14 with a stressed engine took power lifts and huge wheelies (very heavy bike) for years with no problem multiple times a day (heavy right hand) with only blown fork seals.
In short my experience there's lots of other things to worry about but the engine as a stressed member is last on the list (or close) for most bikes
Thanks for the review and you're awesome for responding!
How is the engine heat in heavy traffic.
We didn't spend time in traffic out here in Central Oregon, but I think some other riders have reported this bike as getting a little hot down there.
I used to ride in my younger years and then stop because of raising a family. Then at age 68, in 2018, I bought a Harley Davidson Fat Bob. I ride that Fat Bob all over America. My riding buddies think I’m crazy. And now at age 71 they think I have lost my mind completely because I want to buy a Pan-American.
I'm looking forward to buy one of these bikes but I'm worried about that regulator being so low, I do a lot of water crossings and it seems that it could be a problem. Did you tested it on water crossings?
Did not test it across water yet. Anyone else?
It’s almost like Buell never died.
Great review - I rode this bike on the road - amazing power and flow to the bike. With the new Kawasaki KLR 650 just out - is this a bike you would look at reviewing and/or adding them into your stable of adventure bikes for tours?
Yes, we still have the previous versions of the KLR in operation in Peru, and ran them for years in Patagonia. Just haven't bought the new one yet, as we've got a ton we're juggling right now. Will do a review on it for sure once we've tested it out. Thanks for checking in.
@@RIDEAdventures thanks for the reply.
The title should be "Harley Davidson PAN AMERICA Special (with options) REVIEW | Pros & Cons".
I have yet to see a review for the stock, non-special, but the few people I know that bought the stock, non-Special, are trying to dump them, they want their money back, The Stock version has no upgrade path to a special, and all the selling features are on the Special, or, like laced wheels, are options.
is the PanAm faster than the BMW gs adventure?
Hi,
Is this bike is made in the USA?
Hi Eric great review and Video. Here's my story. Several months ago now I traded my 1200GS for the PAS after road testing one here in the UK. Prior to buying it I had looked at all the YT video's and they were all positive, Of cause after buying it some appeared showing the issue's. There was of cause always going to be some given its their first Adventure Bike .
Ok lets say here that its a great bike competitively praised and I don't disagree with many of your Cons except one in particular and it is the engine. Yes its technically advanced and has 150bhp but for me in comparison as much as I tried to like it compared to the Boxer engine it left me cold. I missed the torque of the Boxer as well. It was never my intention to take it off road so as you say it is a great alternative to a Cruiser. The other things I didn't like were the jiffy stand , the position of the indicator switch , the small foot pegs and gear change but mainly the fact it was a chain drive. Having thought about it I just didn't want the bother of having to oil the chain regularly. I suppose in truth I am basically a big fan of the GS. The only problem I had now was as much as I wanted to trade it in for a 1250GS I was now part of the Harley family and had made so many new friends and this Spring / Summer I plan to attend many Harley events.
So what to do then ! Well what I have done is I have traded my PAS in for a Fat Boy as it seems to have the engine and character of the GS I had owned. Still got a GS on my mind though.
Totally agree with what you suggest Harley should do but I would also add , oh yes I also didn't like the battery position , they should go from a chain to shaft because the market they are currently in is a battle with KTM , Multistrada and Triumphs new Adventure Bike will also be a competitor.
Harley have made a great bike but it really does need to improve in the next edition. Stay safe out there. Ted
Ted, thanks for watching and sharing. Can't blame anyone for adoring the boxer engines that BMW has repurposed from airplanes into motorcycles so successfully. And yea, the simplicity of a shaft drive is hard to look past, unless we become one of the out-of-warranty individuals having to replace that system, sometimes costing ~25% of what the entire bike cost new. Gotta love the power delivery and efficiency of chains though. (Shaft drives absorbing more of that power than chains, and weighing a lot more.) But hey, great that we all have options, there's a crew to hang with no matter what bike we're on today : ) ---- RIDE on, and thanks again!
Where are the GS pros and cons?
Hey Eric! I was wondering what do you think about the Royal Enfield Himalayan, even though I know you might be a bit too big for this kind of bike, would you suggest it to a beginner? I am 5"9 and 150lbs
Some folks have complained about reliability issues with the Himalayan, but its stature and size should be pretty good for beginners who match it. Go for it!
As a Himalayan owner, issues yes, but not a deal breaker. It's easy on the pocket, service and spares.
You are about my size.....and watching you ride.....your knees look like they are WAY out in front of you. It doesn't look comfortable.
Did this bike have their "Tall Boy" seat on it and the 2 Inch risers installed? Just wondering.
It was all stock/original as it came from Harley, and yea, I could use a little more room, feels a little tight/squat in there. But not too bad.
Pros - Good first effort. Cons - it’s a HD😂
Nice review but Harley to take over this market... Lolz
Please.. take another feel of that rear brake.. it's dead as a doorknob and somewhat abrupt... no ability to feel what's it's doing or finesse it!!
I think the kickstand on this bike was a complete fail, they should not have mounted it to the engine case...... Being 6' 6 I should easily be able to throw my leg over the bike but it's very difficult to do. So i mount it like a horse but the kickstand being on the engine case I'm worried I'll break it off over the years of riding it. In addition to that the hard bags are too high on the bike. They should go down at least an inch.
Also the bike has nothing on the KTM 890 ADV R. This bike is probably one of Harley's best performance bikes they've ever made but as far as going off road I feel like this bike is kind of a fail, outside of fire roads it's not going to be able to do much.
Funny you think that it would be just a fire road bike , there are a lot of videos showing them doing a hell of a lot more
Growing pains. This bike will be fine after a couple of years.
Better get the extended warenty or keep the checkbook out , thats a whole lota crap that the average Joe wont be abe to work on or fix .
I am glad to see Harley using gas to make power now instead of just raw noise. Nice bike.
The next step is to make an affordable bike. Harley needs to win over the younger generation with a bike that's lightweight powerful and affordable. Hd's dwindling Rider base is going to be the end of the company if they don't turn it around.
Yep. Would be so great if they'd create a bike to rival the Tenere 700 within a 10% of the same price. Creating such a rival is possible.....but keeping the cost that low is probably a long shot for HD. Thanks for commenting.
The wobbly windshield is not anything near "luxury"... the damn thing looks like it's gonna rattle off the bike!
Pros “exhaust note” aka nothing like a harley 🤣 😂 😂
This is not anymore off-road capable, than a super tenere, or a vstrom. But a hell of a lot more expensive. There is no common sense experienced rider will claim this bike to be as off road capable than a GS. But leave it to Harley to self proclaim it’s a competitor to the gs, and just put themselves ahead of the other adv bikes. Typical Harley bla bla bla.
What about fucking trouble error cord..
Patiently waiting for a video of the Pan America being ridden on ice and snow - on urban roads in traffic and twisty country lanes.
Guess that's never gonna happen :-/
Similar compression ratio to F1 engine? Hmmm, how often do they need stripping and rebuilding......If this bike is ridden in the same way and places as Africa Twin / BMW GS/ Yam Tenere it's going to be even more unreliable than Austrian bikes. It's a Starbucks bike at best because that's what its very obviously been designed for. And Oh-Oh, the side-stand is mounted directly to the engine casing. In better news, Eric does the best bike analysis on YT, reports very realistic facts.
David, thanks for saying so! We did forget to mention how the sidestand is mounted, yet another reason to 'take it easy' on the Pan America, perhaps.
Disagree. GS1250 is similair to PanAm, only smaller displaced adv bikes will take serious off roads. Decided to go for PanAM instead of GS1250 and not only for Starbuck visites, daily ride and some off road. Love the bike
@@marcdroste4217 Same here mine's been a blast to ride off road and on .
Sounds like an awesome machine. But…..why did they make it so damn ugly?
Hah. It does take some getting used to.
I'm going to throw up in mouth just looking at it. Harley adventure bike? Uh, I'm just gunna be over here rolling my eyes.
Just try to use this monster off road and you realise the big cons. No matter that were a HD, simply it's ugly.
For the entire first half you might as well have been reading their sales brochure. Specs and more specs. No actual review. Sorry, but this was kind of weak.
So....we should do a review....without listing the specs of the bike. Hmm. The next person would complain that we didn't list the specs of the bike, so......
So some helpful reply is in order here.
Perhaps just link to the spec sheet and spend a brief moment talking about it?
Why does no one ever talk about range and MPG?? I don't want some 20 mpg that goes 80 miles bike made for traveling.
They'll need to make that mid class bike a lot better looking too. The Pan America has a face only a mother could love. LOL
And perhaps only after she's "had a few." : )
... that a mother could love on pay day.
Lol this is ridiculous HD. It's like calling a Porsche crossover SUV an off-road vehicle. Harley messed up the ONE segment of motorcycles that people can't get enough of. And they messed it up by an order of 3. Give us a truly off road worthy, lightweight 400 with none of those stupid gadgets. Stick to your styling and you'll kill it HD.
Harley finally coming out of the dark ages... hopefully all of the rent boys that ride them follow Harley out of the closet and into the real world 🤣🤣
🤯🤯👍😀
Did you deliberately leave out comparisons with the world segment leader and originator of dual sport class, the BMW R1250GS? The BMW is superior in every way! HD are relying on American brand loyalty to market an inferior product. It might work in USA, but nowhere else in the world.
Chain drive? Really? You didn’t even mention it! And that ugly front end? Wow. Brave to market that. Over complex and poorly designed screen layout? You didn’t mention any of those. I guess you’re funded by HD?
Chain drive has the most efficient delivery of power, is lighter, and less-expensive (typically) than shaft-drive, still working just fine after all these years, and yes, the R1250GS is still a great bike as well. Just cause we didn't mention it (or about a half-dozen other big adventure bikes) doesn't mean we are sponsored by anyone. Fun to soak-up another random accusation though : )
I'm from Europe, bought a PanAM instead of GS1250, also in Europe PanA sold out. No way the GS1250 is superiour in every way....
This bike is an oversized chunker. A rip off of the Buell XB12X without the good handling the Buell has.
you have ZERO clue what you're talking about
@Mike Fu thank you for that definitive answer. So glad you provided results, evidence, and a clear understanding how how bikes are designed. Keep on trucking squid
All those electronics are definitely a con. Something to fail in the middle of nowhere. 13:1 compression ratio will definitely NOT work with what passes for gas in a lot of countries. Another con. Sidestand is bolted to the aluminum engine case. Major con. Radiator is exposed to whatever the front wheel can throw at it. Yet another con. This bike has way more cons than pros. No adventure bike needs that much power. My 2016 KLR650 has plenty of power to take me anywhere I want to go, which includes Prudhoe Bay AK. Adventure riding is not about speed. It's about going over or through whatever gets in your way. Why has nobody taken this thing to Prudhoe Bay yet? Are they afraid it wouldn't make it? Honda C90s have made it. Surely this $20K+ pile of electronics can do it.
KLR650 and PanAm are completely different classes of motorcycles. KLR is a dual sport, the PanAm is a road-biased adventure bike. It seems like you are not the right customer, and that's fine. Don't buy it, you never were going to. Ride your ride and let people enjoy theirs the way they want to.
I rode the PanAm for a couple hours. While I wouldn't buy it because it's a bit out of my price range, I did absolutely enjoy the experience.
Oh, by the way, even a normal Harley can make the trek up to Prudhoe Bay, that's no astounding feat. It's more a test of the rider than the bike.
Piece of garbage! Just read around. A riding partner had one for 6 months and traded it in because of all sorts of finnigely crap. Pile of junk.
HD spent a lot of time and energy to make an inferior KTM 1290
But they're both orange : )
Haha, joke! KTM has won the reliabily award??? Whichbike do you think is better off road?
Yeah.. but how long did it take them to build this? All the other builders will just leapfrog it within a year or two. While Harley will run that motor for the next 10- 50 years.
And how long did it take BMW to make a decent bike? A long time and they’re still fairly unreliable…. I’ve ridden a GS and for a first attempt HD did amazing. I’d take this over the other I’ve ridden.
Hate the vstrom yuck
I love my Pan America. It is such a fun bike to ride. I rode it to Alaska (Deadhorse) and back from Southern California (9000 Miles) and it performed flawlessly. I just got back from a ride down the Baja Peninsula last week (1000 miles) and I had a couple problems. The chain stretched to where I couldn't adjust it anymore, and about 60 miles south of the Border, my stator failed, which caused the battery to drain. However, these problems could happen to any brand. Probably my main upgrade to the Pan America would be to switch to a shaft drive. I know the chain is better for off road, but the Pan America is never going to be a hard core off roader. It's more dirt roads and forest roads. Anyway, thought I would share my experience and 2 cents.
Glad to hear you're enjoying your PA. You're putting in some good miles. I have a KTM 1290 SA now and was thinking about replacing it within the next year. I've done a few test rides on the PA and must say that HD has done a nice job. Out of the gate, they seemed to have done a lot of homework to make a competitive bike. This is totally outside the box for them. They stepped on the competitors home field. They didn't hit a home run, but I think they slid into 3rd base. Way to swing HD. I've never been a big HD fan for the most part. Having a touring BMW and a KTM ADV bike, I Am pulling for HD in this segment. Hopefully they will stick with it and continue to improve the platform. Safe travels and many miles / adventures in the future.
You mentioned the ride to Deadhorse, what did you think of that experience? Been to the mid-west and west coast out of Pennsylvania. Heading to AZ and UT, again summer of 24. I have Alaska on my must do ride bucket list. That's going to be approximately 13000 mile trip from Pa. I even have a also retired ex-coworker that now lives in Delta Junction. That's southeast of Fairbanks. He's looking for me to stop in when I get to AK. Lots of planning, but it would be a epic ride.
@@curtissmith8789 Thanks Curtis. I recently sold the Pan American. It just so happens I was at a BMW motorcycle dealer , looking at their bikes. When I was ready to leave, my PA wouldn't start. The BMW dealership was so nice. They had their mechanic look at it (he used to be a Harley mechanic) and he couldn't get it started. They offered to take it as a trade-in, and I accepted. I now ride a 2023 GS 1250 Adventure. I plan to do a video soon a post it on my site.
@@curtissmith8789 It's probably the greatest riding experience I have ever had. I am doing it again in 2025. I will be riding with a friend this time.
What are you thinking about your 1250 GSA. My riding partner has one, he loves it. I think it's a very nice bike. I really like it too. If you're looking at a ADV bike, it's hard to dismiss a BMW. I will say everyone that rode a PA liked it.
I rode my Yamaha FZ1 to the Pan America Demo. I expected the PA to feel slow... But in sport mode it was almost as much of a rocket as my FZ1. Incredible that a bike can handle the road at 136 Mph (Fastest my riding partner took it) and then ride dirt.
welcome to KTM since 2005
I find your information about the Pan American to be accurate mostly from one who actually own one with 6 other motorcycles
If you change out the stock HD tires to the more aggressive ones they have for the PA , you will find it to be a very capable bike . The only really bad thing I have found about the PA isn't with the bike .How HD put the bike out there with out really educating the dealers and their mechanics about them 1st . Also the backlog for getting accessories from them is ridiculous
I find it kind of sad of all the haters out there , most of them who actually never ridden the PA or even a Harley .
It's not about brand of bike you ride , it's about the ride . What ever bike works for you is good . I never rode or owned a motorcycle I didn't like and wish I would have kept them all . They all have different personalities
My black HD aluminum panniers are still on back order for my 2022 PA. Picking the bike up on the 11th of April come hell or high water. Will use a 20L dry pack on the tail if necessary until the HD accessories arrive. Very frustrating
I’m a little late to this party but agree with the dealer debut. That seems to be on par with how they (dealers) handled the Buell years. I’ve owned many bikes and finally an HD (FLSL) but my riding is very dirt (road) oriented. Pan am would fit the bill but I’ve had a GS that excelled in that. I’m fortunate to have a few bikes that can do their intended “jobs”. Good on Harley for this bike, but now get the bricks and mortar to back them up. Accessories, if the MoCo can’t supply there are others that will.. cheers
Let'em hate. you'll smoke on the street with the Pan Am.
I completely agree, HD should make a middle weight.
Keep refining the Pan America as well. HD challenged the GS, but fell short. HD did an outstanding job though.
Ride ADV, you guys always doing an outstanding job.
Comfortably, thanks! Hard to imagine how they could be cost-competitive with for example, the T7, but regardless, there are enough Harley enthusiasts out there that they could really grab some of that middleweight market. Hope so.
I am seriously thinking and contemplating trading in my 2016 Street glide for a Pan America special
It'll open a bunch of new paths for you......so have fun : )
Bret did a review and showed that the side stand was attached to the engine, would make me pretty nervous to pivot the bike out of a tight spot using the stand.
Yea, we somehow missed mentioning that. Probably not the rugged type of adventure bike one would get into such situations anyway, but a good reminder why not to.
SO HD have a look at the Harley-Davidson XA 740 from WW2: Shaft drive maybe taller suspension with an Ealres fork idea up font and modern brakes .. If you keep the look of the old bike you will sell a ton of them . It is a bike HD made for the North African War . Great back story of sales :)
A middleweight ADV with that self-lowering base? Might give it a second thought, as I am just too short for a T7...Harley should gain a bit of speed though, as the Honda Transalp seems to be joining the game, too...
100% agree! I live in the metro Milwaukee area and have friends that worked for Harley. Definitely want to see a great American motorcycle company succeed! Hey Harley, listen to this man, produce a mid-size adventure bike, and make it affordable for the working man!
Kevin, let'em hear it! Thanks for the note. Probably a long-shot that they'd end up anywhere near the pricing of the Yamaha's and Hondas, but Harley is also the type of company that doesn't need to worry so much about being price-competitive. Hope they do it, and consult with me on the design of the middle-weight ADV bike. -- Eric
I totally agree that they need a middle weight bike. I bought a Tiger 900 just for that reason. The 1200 and the GS were both WAY too tall and heavy.
Pan America has definitely got me interested, but the current one is too heavy for me.
I’d like to see this bike lose 40 pounds, get more ground clearance and a 21/18 wheel combo, and at least be as loud as a KTM/Triumph. The one that goes by my job every day is so quiet you’d think it was a GS or V Strom
Overall great video. Only problem I had was with the comparison of the compression ratios to a completely different class of ADV bikes. The PanAm's 13:1 ratio is comparable to the BMW 1250 GS's 12.5:1 and the KTM 1290 Super Adventure's 13.1:1. I agree with the concerns over accessibility to higher octane fuels in remote locations though, and what that looks like over the lifetime of a yet to be tested engine.
Side stand also is bolted directly to the engine case..by 3 bolts..could be a problem if stressed to much...i was surprised to hear that as I own a 23 special.. I love it so far..
The PANAMERICA 1250 special has arrived in the top class of adventure motorcycles.
Since 26.06.2020 I own a PAN Special beside my BMW GS 1250 HPA.
With my friends from K+M Harleyworld we got startet with the project 1-100.000 km. Our
vision is to check the usability, the reliability and the sustainability of the new HD Motorcycle.
Challenge 1 and 2 related to the usability and reliability was already completed end of October. We mounted a lot of useful stuff to make the Pan really usable for off-road adventures. Therefore a lot of innovations are mounted on my PAN „Elvis“ to make it fit for purpose. Then we crossed all high alp passes on gravel and asphalt in July. In August we went to the island of corse to cross also all high passes under high temperature conditions (40 degrees or hotter outside temp) At least my PAN has felt sand under its tyres for the first time. In September / October we got started with challenge 2. We moved to Morocco to the high Atlas region. We crossed all high Atlas passes including the Col de Ouano on gravel, we circled the big duna of Erg Chebbi on old rally Dakar tracks and we checked out heavy city traffic under high temperature conditions. Result: The PAN collected during 4 month almost 30577 km on its meter. Almost 15% of this driven kilometers where been carried out on unsaved roads, mud, gravel or sand. So unter the line the PAN made it on all playgrounds where the competitor brands usually run their shows. This without breakdown or other serious problems…..
On 31st October, I have shipped my PAN to Chile. On 3rd of January 2022 I will start my adventure „all the way up“ riding the Panamericana highway from Argentina to Alaska. This last and long lasting test is mainly relayed to the point sustainability. Chapeau Harley at this point…
If you are interested, check out Biker.Jo on UA-cam or Instagram …KR Jo
ARH needs to have the electronics to be able to turn it off in all modes totally. Try it with a tall seat and the side stand is almost impossible to use safely without pitching it too far to the right. At the moment, the only way of getting rid of the ARH is to create a custom mode but then one will have to return to that custom mode if one has been in a standard mode say enduro or rain before stopping. I have heard that maybe dealers can turn it off and if someone can tell me how to do that permanently, I would be grateful. Thank you.
So the cons are things that may go wrong but now almost two years in haven’t. And the ground clearance sure is your gonna use this bike 90% off road which why would anyone buy this for that ? Just saying.
With the popularity of the adventure bikes, it's wise of HD to jump into this. I'd like to see the Pan America with a shaft drive, but it looks like a capable, do everything bike.
100% agree with review and that HD needs a midsize. I ride a rare Honda CL400.. only made for 2 years.. scrambler style.
Harley could even use their 750cc engine. Tune it for low end.. that bike is already small. Make a new frame..
Honda is bringing back Transalp. And possibly a CL500 and maybe even Africa Twin back to a 650-750.. Harley will be left behind
Somehow Harley has not yet called their hometown homeboy (me) to consult on the development of that midsize bike. Their target is simple: Yamaha's T7. Just a few small, easy, and obvious changes to that bike, and they'll OWN the market. (Although I'm not sure how they'd compete on that price or reliability.) --- Thanks for watching.
You could be Vince Vaughn's brother.
Haha yeah we get that alot.
thanks for the insight, i just brought one and looking forward to picking it up, sounds like its going to be great up here in the nothern teritory of Austrailai