@@StsFiveOneLima That opposite of Mal comment is more apt than you realize. In the novelization, the Operative recognized that Mal was essentially his opposite image. He even noted that if Mal could have been found as a child and all his character traits honed to serve the Alliance, Mal would have made a fearsome and devastating Operative.
Agree, this dialogue is so poignant, it almost evokes sympathy for him. A killer who knows that he has no home in society, but does what he does out of his belief in a greater good. It makes an antagonist so much more interesting when you see those kinds of dimensions in their character.
@@callmelordhelmet Villains like that are amazing, ones who know that they're evil but do what they do because they believe it is necessary, likely hating themselves the entire time.
Reminds me of Sloan from Section 31. Here is someone so dedicated to their cause they will to do the vile acts to protect that cause. Their also almost a nobility to it if it was drown under by the blood of the innocent.
I love this little scene, it activates something in Mal's head when he realises the operative isn't crazy. A regular monster is fine, it can be tricked and mislead and bamboozled into the light, but a monster that KNOWS it's a monster... your only hope is to fight it as an equal.
I wish I could add something to that, and make this a deep and meaningful comment thread - but what you just said perfectly summed up this scene. The only thing I will say as well is that it makes Mal realise that sometimes you're right to fight back. At the beginning of the film, he say "The wind blows northerly, I go north." Like you said, this is the scene that made Mal realise that fighting was their only option.
Davesoft That's not it - it's not that he's a monster that renders him mortal and beatable, it's when Mal realises that he's in fact 100% serious, and that he actually *believes* all of the things that he is saying. Mal, being a Reb to his core, knows better, and as a lifelong patron of lost causes, he knows one when he hears one, via its Prophets and Flying Monkeys Recently, Jordan Peterson has been extremely successful in spreading awareness and popularising the notion of *Ideological Possession* , wherein a person, a living human mind, comes to be dominated by a particular Idea-Set of Fixed Beliefs and assumptions (which would be an ideology "I am Legion, for We Are Many", for instance), or, on occasion, a single, uncommonly potent, powerful and self-assertive idea which infests, breeds with itself in living minds, either laying dormant or burying itself deep in the subconscious, or else progressively taking over each of the Higher Cognitive Brain functions, one by one, displacing the individuals existing ethical values and moral compass, forcing their soul down as deep into the subconscious as possible - He really does sincerely mean it and that consequently, he can be depended upon to act accordingly and in a manner which makes his future actions Childs Play to profile, analyse and predict what he is going to do, right up until the Moment of Truth, the point where Mal correctly recognises his Faith will be shattered and the fabricated structure of his belief system collapses and falls away, leaving only a doubtful man, lacking in all moral certitude (At last) in it's ruins.
The Operative is completely crazy, he is the purest form of crazy that there is, the kind that looks at all the horrible things it's doing, recognises them for what they are, then convinces itself that it's the right thing to do.
fix0the0spade He's not crazy, he's 100% rational. The cause he serves is crazy. And when he is shown that, he stops serving it. That proves his sanity.
fix0the0spade Darth Vader is not an evil man; he's a profoundly good man who *does evil things that no-one else can or will do* to protect other people (not himself).
C.S. Lewis said something once which fits this movie like a glove: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
Ah yes the quote of the hand wringers and pearl clutchers who feel that changing anything about society is littterally 1984 hitler your ilk pretend everyone willing to make a sacrifice is like the operative
@@M3A7 pfff, not at all, no "tyrant" of today really cares about those their are oppressing, it's just about greed and lust for more power, like always.
I always loved the way the operative responds to that. “I don’t murder children” “I do” It tells you everything about the character, it’s not personal, it’s just buisness, it’s just how the job is played
Quite the opposite, you can feel that it's very personal, but he won't let his feelings stand in the way of fulfilling his duty, admirable really, if not monstrous
Maui just had a fire. The police won't let the people evacuate on road. Children have died. Antifa tried to burn down my neighborhood. Twice. My belief, my canyon had a lot of MAGA flags flying. I'm surrounded by parents with children. a train overturn with hazardous chemicals. someone order to open up the container and burn it. The Fire marshal objected and when not listened to walked away. The SDS says to keep it cool and do not burn it, unless it's already on fire. No one explain why they violated the rules on how to handle the chemical. we are surrounded by murderers of children.
It's more than that, the operative doesn't WANT to do it - its not that he is unfeeling, he has arrived, after a long and tortured self examination, at the realisation (as far as he is concerned) that the world needs someone to do this and he is the only one who can. He really does see himself as a monster, and the only thing that keeps him going is his utter certainty that it is in the service of something greater. Its a similar mentality to Thanos, and what defeats both characters, is encountering somone whose sense of will is greater than their own.
@@Bazookatone1 love it, and I prefer this over thanos, because Thanos just ends up being a boss that needs to be killed. We get mals victory over the agent, and we get to see mal break the agents faith, shatter his unbreakable belief that the atrocities he commits are for the greater good.
I disagree. I always thought of evil, both in the broader moral context and in terms of D&D alignment, as being not merely willing to inflict suffering on innocents in order to achieve a goal, but wanting to inflict suffering as a goal in itself. Of course, in that formulation, true evil would be pretty rare in the real world. People and movements based on hating some out group would be the prime example of this, and even then, only some of those would really enjoy the suffering of the targeted innocents. Harder to pin down than Good vs. Evil is Neutrality. Neutrality between Good and Evil I see coming in multiple flavors itself - one side is more akin to amorality, that is, simply not being concerned with questions of good or evil or whether other people suffer - while another is to actually seek balance between them, or, as in the case of the Operative, to have a goal that is seen as greater in importance than the distinction between good and evil. Thus, I think he might even be True Neutral - not only is he willing to commit evil acts in service of his higher purpose, but of acting outside of any formal law. He does whatever is necessary to achieve the goals of those in power in the Parliament, whether there is explicit authority for those actions or not. For me, Lawful Evil is embodied the strongest in Emperor Palpatine aka Darth Sidious. He enjoys having the power to inflict pain and suffering on anyone weaker than him (which is just about everyone) and yet also wants the galaxy to be rigidly ordered according to the Sith philosophy.
@@khanktinga The problem with this argument is that it only accepts as _evil_ those who are _sadistic._ -- i.e. inflicting suffering for the personal gratification of doing so. By that definition, most of what Hitler or Mao or Stalin did was not evil. That's much, much too narrow a definition. And it puts far too much weight on intentions. Remember what road is paved with good ones. Intent matters, which is why we distinguish between manslaughter and murder, but _results_ matter more. Someone like Stalin killed tens of millions, not because he took some kind of perverse _pleasure_ in their deaths; they were merely insignificant to him -- the eggs he had to break in order to make the omelet he wanted to make. Most evil people are not like the operative: they are the _hero_ of the story in their own eyes. What they are doing might be unfortunate, even regrettable, but it's seen as necessary. So the kulaks have to be cleared off to make way for collectivized agriculture, because Marxism/Leninism says that's the way of the future, and will lead to a better, more just and equitable society. Nonetheless, Stalin was still one of the most evil men in human history. Even if one is not taking _pleasure_ in the deaths of those millions, anyone willing to condemn millions of people to their deaths merely because they are inconvenient obstacles in the way of his dreams, is most definitively evil.
@@Hibernicus1968 Those are good points. I think it comes down to what you are trying to communicate when using the words 'good' and 'evil'. If you are trying to show that harming others is what is morally wrong, regardless of the net benefits of those actions to the whole of society, then yes, intentions would be less important than results. But character alignment in D&D always seems to me to be describing the mindset of the character, rather than the results of their actions. And for that, intent matters more than results. I don't know that much about The old Soviet history, to be honest, so I don't know much about Stalin's thinking or reasons for his actions. Hitler, on the other hand, I know enough about to agree that he would be evil in pretty much any formulation. Viewing groups of people as subhuman and thus deserving of extermination can never be anything but evil in any reasonable use of the word. Even if short of actual sadism, it is still depraved in the extreme. I probably should expand my definition of evil to include what seems to be a legal standard of "depraved indifference to human life" and suffering rather than limiting it to some kind of perverse pleasure in the suffering of others. I still think that the Operative is kind of on the borderline of being evil, though. Even though he states that he has no place in the better world he is trying to help Parliament create, he does what does because he believes it will create that better world. He isn't the hero of his own story, but he IS the anti-hero of his own story.
One of my favourite villains in one of my favourite films. He is perfectly aware of his crimes, but sticks to them and admits them. He doesn't even care what happens to him in the end- all he wants is a better world that he believes in and will fight for those beliefs until the end.
I remember word that he was being considered to play Bond, and I think that would have been great casting. I just think by this point they're gonna want to go with someone much younger and probably unknown.
Left out the end where Mal asks the Operative if he thinks Mal cares if more people will die, and Operative says 'Of course you care, you're not a Reaver' thus giving Mal the inspiration to disguise as a Reaver ship to get to Miranda.
Really wish they could start a spin off series about the Operative after the events of Serenity where he is a man out in space, lost and in search of redemption.
Lame idea, he's sudden character transformation is unrealistic. So the Alliance is accidentally responsible for creating the reavers...so what? In a 100yrs the reavers will just be a legend as they'd all of died of old age.
I think you've kind of missed the point. The Operative was a religious believer who had the rug pulled from under him. He was the bad man who protected the good and instead realised that they were nothing more than monsters themselves. Everything he believed in was a lie. Thats the point.
+Max Palombella Yeah but the problem is that he's not nearly as cool as mal or even WASH WHO FUCKING DIED JOSS WHEDON DAMN YOU TO HELL. DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL (krieger reference)
He's like the living embodiment of blind allegiance to the State. Every totalitarian regime in history has had True Believers like this working for them.
@@mikepowell8611 That's what I mean. He believes that by doing horrible things in the service of government power, that the government will in turn deliver a utopia. The State he serves and the Idea he believes in are intertwined. There's definitely some Antifa parallels there.
I love villains like this, the kind that are like: I recognize what I do is a horrible thing but if I don't do it someone else will so theres no point to argue
It's utilitarianism. If the end goal is a perfect society where everyone is at peace and human civilization is prosperous for centuries or millennia into the future, what is the price one would be willing to pay for such a utopia? How many deaths are too many? Is killing 10 children now to save 100,000 children dead to war and strife not equitable? How many people might a principled man be willing to bloody his hands in killing in order to save a thousand times that many in the future? A million times? It's a tough thing to wrap one's head around. If you KNEW that you were fighting for the eventual formation of the perfect society, what wouldn't you be willing to do?
BigMikeMcBastard If I were fighting like the The Operative I would have laid waste to the entire planet before Mal came back. "The only thing that matters is the goal not the price"- Sanches
Josef Adama Well, Mal was taking refuge with a specific group of people, so the entire planet being obliterated when only a small portion is involved is probably excessive and certainly impractical (planets are big).
Josef Adama On the other hand, the big reveal in Serenity that the Alliance killed a planetary population except for the small percentage who became Reavers was the end-game victory for the Firefly series. Destroying planetary populations is clearly not something that the Alliance would be able to get away with, especially if it's a planet wiped out for the sake of rooting out 8 fugitives.
The operative showed who he was here, he was truely warning Mal the extent he is willing to go without hesitation. Sure he lost in the end but for the movies sake. But the operative was clear of what and who he was, aware of his actions and the horrors it resulted in, and yet he did them. This showed clearly how powerful he could be without wanting it. And Mal was truly afraid.
One could argue that the operative made the mistake of showing his hand here. By being brutally honest he gave his opponent far too much information about himself. Never give your opponent information about yourself.
Mal was never afraid of the Operative- he was afraid of BECOMING the like the Operative. Shepherd Book even told him to find something to believe because the Operative had a belief. Mal was much darker as a character than most people realize.
I was going to say he's widely regarded as one of the finest screen actors of our time, which would make him correctly rated, but, thinking about it, you're right - he probably hasn't ever got the credit he's deserved. Even the MCU, which should have been saving him as a massive ace in the hole, used in as a secondary character in one of their more throwaway films. Granted, he was probably the best thing about it anyway and, given who he was playing, he was probably originally intended to be the main villain of the sequel but it didn't turn out that way.
One of my favorite movie villains. The guy knew exactly what he was and what he valued. The scary thing is that you can see him mirrored in a lot of online communities. They are so convinced that they have the world figured out and that their vision is the right one.
I love the resolution with this character too, when he's made to look at what his ideology actually results in. The realization he is not building a better world after all broke him.
I liked the operative. While he is delusional he is also very clear headed. Delusional about ends justify means, but at the same time he was everything but delusional that what he does is everything but ethical. And he is very aware that what he does also changes him and makes him incompatible with the world he is trying to create. He is the prime example for a true and absolute fanatic with pragmatic tendencies. He believes so strongly that "his work" will end in a so much better place that the bloody path is worth taking. I mean, he surely is a "bad guy". Yet one cannot ignore that his will to sacrifice everything for a better future, not just his life but in essence his very soul, makes him actually more of a hero than so many other "good guys", who actually just stumbled into doing the right thing. Not talking about Mal here, Mal is actually a good guy at heart who simply hit a wall. Failed and now tries to make the best of it. He cannot help himself but to continue to do the right thing despite knowing better sometimes. One thing about the Operative that shows that he is actually not "evil"-evil and still very "evil"-evil is how the actor chose to say "I do., when Mal says "I don't murder children", It seems not just that the Operative is not taking pleasure at what he does, it also seems that he regrets it and does it because of this inherent believe that it is completely necessary. And here lies the thing, the Operative cannot be swayed with morality or emotional argumentation. He's fanatically pragmatic. If Mal could've proven to him that he could've reached the better world in another way, or that his superiors do not share his vision of a perfect future, there's a good chance he would've switched sides. The actions of the Operative are evil. The Operative himself is kinda more a neutral character.
The operative is such an interesting character, he's basically what happens when you go full utilitarianism. The whole exchange between him and Malcolm about murdering children really exemplifies that, the way the operative responds you get the impression he actually feels bad about what he does, like he knows his actions are wrong but because in his mind more people will benefit from the atrocities he commits than would be victimized by them he tells himself it's okay.
I see the operative as the other side of the coin from Vincent in Collateral. Both men totally able to detach themselves from the evil thst they do but for drastically different reasons. The Operative is a true believer, he wants a better world and will do what he feels needs to be done. For Vincent, it's just a job. No morality or scruples about it as he likely doesn't have any. Neither man can be reasoned with and neither one will stop(yes the Operative does let them go but that's because he failed and therefore the job no longer requires their deaths). I absolutely love this villian type because it allows for engaging characters without the need for a redemption arc or some tragic backstory.
The greatest evil is done by those who think they are serving a greater good. The Operative thought he was serving a greater good. Mel Renelds realized he was facing the greatest evil he had everfaced and he had to fight it.
ADDENDUM: If you think about it, the Operative's beliefs are a sort of dark reflection of one of Alexander's sections from "The World Was Wide Enough": Legacy, what is a legacy? It's planting seeds in a garden you never get to see...
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." From the Alliance påerspective, the Operative is the good guy and Mal is the outlaw. From our point of view, it's the other way around.. Funny how a point of view can absolve crimes and violent behaviour..
@@slewone4905 I never read the comics, but I'd say his planned back story was probably that he was the one who caused the Serenity battle loss. There was clearly a sudden massive shift in that battle, and even though the war didn't end precisely there, the show even says that was pretty much the end of the war. So the preacher was likely involved in that, possibly to save as many lives as possible, knowing it was a hopeless cause. He clearly became a preacher as some way to try to find peace for the things he did, or as a penance. But I'm guessing that if the show had gone on, eventually Mal would have found out what the preacher did, causing conflict that needed to be settled.
He's a villain whom is aware he is a villain and that he knows what he does is wrong and that he does it because it's his job. The Alliance pay him to kill if necessary and he kills.
I wonder if in a way he is like the samurais.🤔 That came to me because of the sword and maybe a good knowledge of their practices, although I have no idea if they obeyed their master blindly..
He's Vader - *The Ultimate Father.* But with just three crucial differences : 1) He's a Bachelor - his entire demeanour and bearing (plus everything that he *says* ) all tend towards the suggestion of a solitary, monastic existence of Duty, Faith and Purpose, with no personal ties of sentiment or emotional attachment - Which is precisely what all Jedi are taught, and assumed to be like, and what Anakin Skywalker was *supposed* to be like, although very obviously, nobody was actually bothering to actually check up on these sorts of things, police the Knights adherence to their Jedi vows or ensure compliance with The Jedi Code by enforcing their Laws, because nobody in The Jedi Order noticed that he had taken a wife and had just sired a child with her, even though they were cohabiting in their own house together for over *THREE YEARS* ... 2) The Operative knows that he is going to Hell, he knows that when that happens, he will have his story straight, and his soul prepared to suffer the consequence of his lifetime accumulation of sin, and yet still not repent of it. Of any of it. Vader, on the other hand, was certainly not consciously planning or intending to cast himself into The Pit of Hell to get what he most truly wanted (again, *for other people* , the people whom he loved, not for himself)
That's a brilliant comparison. It should also be noted that the Anakin of the Prequel Trilogy in no way matched the Vader of the originals, in character or in motivation. They may as well have been two completely separate entities.
3 years later I'm: 1) still waiting for that third crucial difference 2) trying to understand what the hell does it have to do with Firefly 3) the fuck is the ultimate father
Wow!! I'm French and it's the first time i heard this scene in English. Chiwetel Ejiofor's voice made me cry (nearly). "I do... if i have to." Yeah, he's a fucking good comedian.
I would love for a conversation between issac of castlvania and the operative from serenity. One the chaotic good (issac) the other orderly evil (operative).
the trope of the figure who strives to bring about a better they are disqualified from ever seeing dates back to Moses in the biblical book of Exodus, who despite delivering his people from Egypt to the promised land, was barred from ever entering
Greed, for a lack of a better word, is good. Communism failed, because there is a lack of drive. Greed helps give people incentive to improve the world. We attract the best doctor, with money. we innovate for profit. Besides, how can Humanity survive, with out selfishness.
Mal could have made a better argument. If Operative committed all those atrocities because he believed those activities would result in the better world, then how does he know that "better world" is being created if he doesn't ask questions? For all he knows, the top officials are only in it to for their own greed and doesn't care if the whole world burns (which directly goes against Operative's idea of a "better world").
Ultimately Mal didn’t need to make the argument, instead he showed him what happened at Miranda and that’s what shattered the Operative’s faith in the Alliance. Would have been interesting to see what would happen to that character sometime later, having to reconcile with his evil actions that didn’t lead to a better world.
@@michaelsong5555 he didn’t know about Miranda at the time, but he knew what the alliance was capable of. Much like River, seeing them as “meddlesome”.
@@Stockslivevan Sorry about the late reply. Anyways, Mal knew that the top officials are evil, but the point of my comment is that if Operative didn't know that the people who change things aren't changing things for the better, then Operative has no grounds to argue that he's doing something for "the better world" crap -- he's just killing because he doesn't give a crap about anything, much less his "better world". Taking Mal's personality, he would have called BS on Operative's hypocrisy.
The operative really failed to recognize the flaw of pride in himself that he killed the man in the beginning over. The operative may be methodical and stoic but he still reeks of hubris like he can’t fail. We see mal here and think that he is fuming mad which is true. He is beyond rage but it is really born out of love. In the operative’s own words that’s something far more dangerous. The operative in all his machinations failed to realize that he was awaking enough unbridled love to take down the alliance
No one else in these ancient comments is probably gonna see this, but Operative reminds me a lot of Light Yagami from Death Note. He does terrible things for the sake of a “better world,” but what sets them apart and what, for me, makes Operative the morally superior one, is precisely what he says in this clip. He knows he’s a monster and does evil things, and he knows he should burn with the rest of the world for it. Light insists that he’s right in murdering the people he does, and truly believes he deserves a place in his world where no one is cruel, though he’s done cruel things. Light is delusional about the things he does, but Operative is fully aware of his evilness and does it anyways, for the sake of *others.*
The funny thing, though, is that, while your analysis is on point, the Operative is _immensely_ delusional; he's just (unlike Light) not delusional about himself. His delusion is of the world he believes he's working to create. He doesn't think _he_ deserves to live in it, sure, but he's perfectly happy to assume that the people who gave him his orders and know exactly what he'll do with those orders because, well, that's why they chose him to give them to, deserve not only to live in it but to _rule_ it. This isn't to condemn him - it honestly gives the role a lot of pathos for me. For all his brilliance and all his self-awareness, he never saw through his own indoctrination. It, "[wasn't his] place to ask," as it were - at least until it was far too late. Also makes Chiwetel Ejiofor's performance almost uniquely brilliant, that he's able to give such humanity to someone who believes he's nothing but a weapon for 'better' men to point at things that need destroyed.
The idea that there are people who do evil in service of the greater good and they know what they do and know they have no place in the new world is one we ahve encountered. In the fields of eastern europe Heinrich himmler visited the Einsatzgruppen, the nazi death squad units tasked with murdering partisans, dissidents, committed communists and overwhelmingly, jews - men, women and children. The task took its toll on the soldiers and major nazi leaders visited them for morale and expressed concerns about their mental stress. Himmler in his speeches, one of which is documented, tells the men that they all know what they are doing is a horrible, disgusting task, and the reason it drains them is that they are good people. He says they are sacrificing their morality for a higher good - a greater german Reich, living space for good germans, and superior ethnic harmony so nobody has to do things like this again. Whether the nazi leadership really gave a shit about these soldiers, many of whom were conscripts from occupied areas, I doubt. I also disagree with the idea that if you murder children it's okay if you know it's wrong. Point is, Whedon nailed the mindset of a war criminal.
If the Operative was doing all this for his family or crew, you'd be cheering him on. But do it for a state or an ideology, and it's wrong? There's like this level of which people will find this kind of behavior acceptable or not, and it really does seem like it's where one can see someone's face or not.
What I love about the character is he couldn't begin to comprehend what drove Mal. The way they created him and made him so sociopathic made him completely incapable of understanding the links that the crew would go to protect one of their own. That you Utopia that he's talking about is a place where there is no such thing as family because those emotions have to be destroyed by the state so that the state can have control and put everybody in their place. But he never understood was love is chaotic and chaotic people can't be predicted to do the things that you want them to do which is why in the end Mal and the crew won and he lost.
His first scene is literally accurately and empathicly understanding the reason for Simon's rescue, "It's love in point of fact". He lost because Josh Whedon needed his guys to win so a load of contrivance had to occur.
The Operative has more integrity than anyone I've seen in the religious right--because he doesn't lie to himself about damning himself for the salvation of others.
@@CactusCowboyDan Behavior is sinful or righteous to the extent that it can be chosen. Animals generally don't have a choice on what they eat, so their behavior is neither sinful nor righteous. As the scope of choice becomes more expansive due to the advancement of civilization and technology, then behavior also increase in sinfulness or righteousness. In this era, where it is so easy to satisfy worldly desires to excess, the potential for sinfulness is greater than in the times of the gospel. Likewise, because the potential for sinfulness is so great, also the righteousness of those who trust in God for protection against sin is also increased. But as always, judgement and condemnation belong to the Lord alone. May the peace of the Lord be upon you.
@@crb2061 News flash: God isn’t real. There is no sin or righteousness. Everything in religion is just a story to make you be a good little boy. Nothing more. Faith is belief based on the absence of data. So either wake up or stay in your little wonderland. Sorry for being so short tempered. But I have no patience for delusions anymore.
Not even remotly comparable things don't see how infrasctructure improvements are going to transform the world into the 1890s and of course it's hilarious your ilk whine about the great reset bullshit when it's what you want in the first place, because anything other than utter corporate rule is "LITTTERALLY USSSR" to you
@@kenetickups6146 totally comparable. Blue Sun corp and tge Alliance were corperate facist. Much like globalist Elites are. A collevtivist slavestate. Most true conservitives are for lmited govt and individualist ideals. Get off the hashpipe
As much as I like Operative, I think he's a hypocrite. He believes in a "better world", but all he ever does is follow orders (and doesn't even question the motive of the guy that gives out orders, or worse, don't even know the guy who's giving out the order). If he's doing things to better the world, then he needs to actually understand the motives of the order and the likely outcome of carrying out the order. They're a set deal -- you can't have one without the other. I have no problem with people just following orders, but if you're gonna do that, then don't speak of some nobler cause. That's just bullshit.
That's exactly what he is. And it's ultimately why he breaks free from the Alliance at the end of the film after he hears the Miranda recording. Once he recognizes what the Alliance actually is he realizes that he can no longer justify doing the horrible things he does for them.
@@dstacyify No, he left the Alliance, because he saw the result of the "better world" that he envisioned, and it sucked ass. He still didn't think Alliance was evil or anything, even by the end of the movie. He simply left, because he no longer had the vision that kept him going (ie better world where everything is good and peaceful is impossible).
@@michaelsong5555 you have to remember, he's working on belief. It was kind of a theme of the movie. The Operative has faith in the cause of the Alliance. Faith isn't logical. Or at least it doesn't have to be. Once he saw the video, he had a crisis of faith. That's why he goes to talk to Mal at the end of the movie.
That's the whole point of the ending. He saw what the Alliance did to make things better, and it caused nothing but death and destruction. His job was more crude, but it also explained why his job existed: The Pax was a failure, so they resorted to cruder methods, which pretty much showed that the entire endeavor was a pipe dream. Here he saw the culmination of his pipe dream: A chemical put in the air that caused people to become soo docile, they stopped caring about everything. There was no war, but there was also no motivation. The drug didn't just do it, it was also a result of people having no conflict to drive them. He realized that there was never going to be a better world under their rule, because the people in power were monsters themselves, and that he was merely a henchman to protect those monsters by cleaning up their messes. He realized his entire cause was a lie.
You see that's your problem you want everyone to live in your little get together world that's why you called The GOP evil because we opposed that little fake Utopia. My friend that you have to live in the world that is realistic they're all there is always going to be hate and there's always going to be dislikement of individuals. You might as well settle for survival of the fittest because that is a realistic vision for humanity not this lovey dovey everyone gets along because that will be a boring world to live in.
The operative was such a compelling character. A monster that knows what he does is evil that made him such a effective antagonist.
Perfect opposite of Mal.
He should have gotten an Oscar for this.
@@StsFiveOneLima That opposite of Mal comment is more apt than you realize. In the novelization, the Operative recognized that Mal was essentially his opposite image. He even noted that if Mal could have been found as a child and all his character traits honed to serve the Alliance, Mal would have made a fearsome and devastating Operative.
@@danielhaire6677 ya but thats fanfiction bullshit
@@crabtrap No, that was the official novelization authorized by the producers of the moive.
"I am not going to live there. There is no place for me there. I am a Monster."
that mentality is so scary.
If his goals were diametrically opposite, he'd be the ultimate good guy. Go figure.
Agree, this dialogue is so poignant, it almost evokes sympathy for him. A killer who knows that he has no home in society, but does what he does out of his belief in a greater good. It makes an antagonist so much more interesting when you see those kinds of dimensions in their character.
@@callmelordhelmet Villains like that are amazing, ones who know that they're evil but do what they do because they believe it is necessary, likely hating themselves the entire time.
If you can earnestly believe something like that, then you can justify absolutely anything.
You wouldn't believe how close that is to history books.
"I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there."
I love that line from the Operative.
Reminds me of Sloan from Section 31. Here is someone so dedicated to their cause they will to do the vile acts to protect that cause. Their also almost a nobility to it if it was drown under by the blood of the innocent.
I love this little scene, it activates something in Mal's head when he realises the operative isn't crazy.
A regular monster is fine, it can be tricked and mislead and bamboozled into the light, but a monster that KNOWS it's a monster... your only hope is to fight it as an equal.
I wish I could add something to that, and make this a deep and meaningful comment thread - but what you just said perfectly summed up this scene. The only thing I will say as well is that it makes Mal realise that sometimes you're right to fight back. At the beginning of the film, he say "The wind blows northerly, I go north." Like you said, this is the scene that made Mal realise that fighting was their only option.
Davesoft That's not it - it's not that he's a monster that renders him mortal and beatable, it's when Mal realises that he's in fact 100% serious, and that he actually *believes* all of the things that he is saying.
Mal, being a Reb to his core, knows better, and as a lifelong patron of lost causes, he knows one when he hears one, via its Prophets and Flying Monkeys
Recently, Jordan Peterson has been extremely successful in spreading awareness and popularising the notion of *Ideological Possession* , wherein a person, a living human mind, comes to be dominated by a particular Idea-Set of Fixed Beliefs and assumptions (which would be an ideology "I am Legion, for We Are Many", for instance), or, on occasion, a single, uncommonly potent, powerful and self-assertive idea which infests, breeds with itself in living minds, either laying dormant or burying itself deep in the subconscious, or else progressively taking over each of the Higher Cognitive Brain functions, one by one, displacing the individuals existing ethical values and moral compass, forcing their soul down as deep into the subconscious as possible -
He really does sincerely mean it and that consequently, he can be depended upon to act accordingly and in a manner which makes his future actions Childs Play to profile, analyse and predict what he is going to do, right up until the Moment of Truth, the point where Mal correctly recognises his Faith will be shattered and the fabricated structure of his belief system collapses and falls away, leaving only a doubtful man, lacking in all moral certitude (At last) in it's ruins.
The Operative is completely crazy, he is the purest form of crazy that there is, the kind that looks at all the horrible things it's doing, recognises them for what they are, then convinces itself that it's the right thing to do.
fix0the0spade He's not crazy, he's 100% rational.
The cause he serves is crazy.
And when he is shown that, he stops serving it.
That proves his sanity.
fix0the0spade Darth Vader is not an evil man; he's a profoundly good man who *does evil things that no-one else can or will do* to protect other people (not himself).
C.S. Lewis said something once which fits this movie like a glove:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
That sounds pretty relevant to today.
Ah yes the quote of the hand wringers and pearl clutchers who feel that changing anything about society is littterally 1984 hitler
your ilk pretend everyone willing to make a sacrifice is like the operative
@@M3A7 pfff, not at all, no "tyrant" of today really cares about those their are oppressing, it's just about greed and lust for more power, like always.
That is…a badass quote
We are infants, imbeciles and domestic animals though. That seems like the ignorant perspective of an animals self preservation instincts
I always loved the way the operative responds to that.
“I don’t murder children”
“I do”
It tells you everything about the character, it’s not personal, it’s just buisness, it’s just how the job is played
Quite the opposite, you can feel that it's very personal, but he won't let his feelings stand in the way of fulfilling his duty, admirable really, if not monstrous
Maui just had a fire. The police won't let the people evacuate on road. Children have died.
Antifa tried to burn down my neighborhood. Twice. My belief, my canyon had a lot of MAGA flags flying. I'm surrounded by parents with children. a train overturn with hazardous chemicals. someone order to open up the container and burn it. The Fire marshal objected and when not listened to walked away. The SDS says to keep it cool and do not burn it, unless it's already on fire. No one explain why they violated the rules on how to handle the chemical.
we are surrounded by murderers of children.
I searched exactly for this scene because that line stuck with me for years now. I do. When it's necessary.
It's more than that, the operative doesn't WANT to do it - its not that he is unfeeling, he has arrived, after a long and tortured self examination, at the realisation (as far as he is concerned) that the world needs someone to do this and he is the only one who can. He really does see himself as a monster, and the only thing that keeps him going is his utter certainty that it is in the service of something greater. Its a similar mentality to Thanos, and what defeats both characters, is encountering somone whose sense of will is greater than their own.
@@Bazookatone1 love it, and I prefer this over thanos, because Thanos just ends up being a boss that needs to be killed. We get mals victory over the agent, and we get to see mal break the agents faith, shatter his unbreakable belief that the atrocities he commits are for the greater good.
His delivery of “I do, if I have to” is amazing
Lawful evil right there
If ever there was a movie example of it, it's the operative.
I disagree. I always thought of evil, both in the broader moral context and in terms of D&D alignment, as being not merely willing to inflict suffering on innocents in order to achieve a goal, but wanting to inflict suffering as a goal in itself. Of course, in that formulation, true evil would be pretty rare in the real world. People and movements based on hating some out group would be the prime example of this, and even then, only some of those would really enjoy the suffering of the targeted innocents.
Harder to pin down than Good vs. Evil is Neutrality. Neutrality between Good and Evil I see coming in multiple flavors itself - one side is more akin to amorality, that is, simply not being concerned with questions of good or evil or whether other people suffer - while another is to actually seek balance between them, or, as in the case of the Operative, to have a goal that is seen as greater in importance than the distinction between good and evil. Thus, I think he might even be True Neutral - not only is he willing to commit evil acts in service of his higher purpose, but of acting outside of any formal law. He does whatever is necessary to achieve the goals of those in power in the Parliament, whether there is explicit authority for those actions or not.
For me, Lawful Evil is embodied the strongest in Emperor Palpatine aka Darth Sidious. He enjoys having the power to inflict pain and suffering on anyone weaker than him (which is just about everyone) and yet also wants the galaxy to be rigidly ordered according to the Sith philosophy.
@@khanktinga A sound argument.
@@khanktinga The problem with this argument is that it only accepts as _evil_ those who are _sadistic._ -- i.e. inflicting suffering for the personal gratification of doing so. By that definition, most of what Hitler or Mao or Stalin did was not evil. That's much, much too narrow a definition. And it puts far too much weight on intentions. Remember what road is paved with good ones. Intent matters, which is why we distinguish between manslaughter and murder, but _results_ matter more.
Someone like Stalin killed tens of millions, not because he took some kind of perverse _pleasure_ in their deaths; they were merely insignificant to him -- the eggs he had to break in order to make the omelet he wanted to make. Most evil people are not like the operative: they are the _hero_ of the story in their own eyes. What they are doing might be unfortunate, even regrettable, but it's seen as necessary. So the kulaks have to be cleared off to make way for collectivized agriculture, because Marxism/Leninism says that's the way of the future, and will lead to a better, more just and equitable society.
Nonetheless, Stalin was still one of the most evil men in human history. Even if one is not taking _pleasure_ in the deaths of those millions, anyone willing to condemn millions of people to their deaths merely because they are inconvenient obstacles in the way of his dreams, is most definitively evil.
@@Hibernicus1968 Those are good points. I think it comes down to what you are trying to communicate when using the words 'good' and 'evil'. If you are trying to show that harming others is what is morally wrong, regardless of the net benefits of those actions to the whole of society, then yes, intentions would be less important than results.
But character alignment in D&D always seems to me to be describing the mindset of the character, rather than the results of their actions. And for that, intent matters more than results. I don't know that much about The old Soviet history, to be honest, so I don't know much about Stalin's thinking or reasons for his actions. Hitler, on the other hand, I know enough about to agree that he would be evil in pretty much any formulation. Viewing groups of people as subhuman and thus deserving of extermination can never be anything but evil in any reasonable use of the word. Even if short of actual sadism, it is still depraved in the extreme.
I probably should expand my definition of evil to include what seems to be a legal standard of "depraved indifference to human life" and suffering rather than limiting it to some kind of perverse pleasure in the suffering of others.
I still think that the Operative is kind of on the borderline of being evil, though. Even though he states that he has no place in the better world he is trying to help Parliament create, he does what does because he believes it will create that better world. He isn't the hero of his own story, but he IS the anti-hero of his own story.
One of my favourite villains in one of my favourite films. He is perfectly aware of his crimes, but sticks to them and admits them. He doesn't even care what happens to him in the end- all he wants is a better world that he believes in and will fight for those beliefs until the end.
A true fanatic.
Chiwetel Ejiofor would make a good Bond villain.
I'd love to see him play The Doctor or The Master
@@TheMacKosh I love to see Summer Glau have a guest appearance in Doctor Who.
I remember word that he was being considered to play Bond, and I think that would have been great casting. I just think by this point they're gonna want to go with someone much younger and probably unknown.
Or a Bond.
excellent bad guy with depth.
Left out the end where Mal asks the Operative if he thinks Mal cares if more people will die, and Operative says 'Of course you care, you're not a Reaver' thus giving Mal the inspiration to disguise as a Reaver ship to get to Miranda.
I cried like an idiot in the theatre when they revealed my ship all decked out in that evil...
@@SandySaysRead wait what? What do you mean?
Really wish they could start a spin off series about the Operative after the events of Serenity where he is a man out in space, lost and in search of redemption.
Lame idea, he's sudden character transformation is unrealistic. So the Alliance is accidentally responsible for creating the reavers...so what? In a 100yrs the reavers will just be a legend as they'd all of died of old age.
I think you've kind of missed the point. The Operative was a religious believer who had the rug pulled from under him. He was the bad man who protected the good and instead realised that they were nothing more than monsters themselves. Everything he believed in was a lie. Thats the point.
Max Palombella They did, just watch Agents of SHIELD. Coulson is the Operative, even if he doesn't know it.
+Max Palombella Yeah but the problem is that he's not nearly as cool as mal or even WASH WHO FUCKING DIED JOSS WHEDON DAMN YOU TO HELL. DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL (krieger reference)
The operative character was the best part of the movie..
The only thing scarier than a monster that does evil, is a man who believes that he does evil for the right reasons.
Yup.
And this is why communism can't ever work on large scale
Like Antifa.
@@mikepowell8611 Quite so.
@@mikepowell8611 lol I guess anything can be a soapbox if you wish hard enough, though the irony is pretty hard to ignore
"Why are you doing this?"
"Because I see, at last, what is wrong with the world - too many children."
He's like the living embodiment of blind allegiance to the State. Every totalitarian regime in history has had True Believers like this working for them.
Its not the state its an Idea. He is building a better world. He sounds like Antifa to me.
@@mikepowell8611 That's what I mean. He believes that by doing horrible things in the service of government power, that the government will in turn deliver a utopia. The State he serves and the Idea he believes in are intertwined. There's definitely some Antifa parallels there.
@@mikepowell8611 Twice in one video
bud, antifa hasn't been relevant in quite a while
@@mikepowell8611 *MAGA, since Antifa is literally fighting AGAINST evil like this.
@@mikepowell8611 not Antifa, Antifa is chaotic evil, the operative is lawful evil.
I love villains like this, the kind that are like: I recognize what I do is a horrible thing but if I don't do it someone else will so theres no point to argue
It's utilitarianism. If the end goal is a perfect society where everyone is at peace and human civilization is prosperous for centuries or millennia into the future, what is the price one would be willing to pay for such a utopia? How many deaths are too many? Is killing 10 children now to save 100,000 children dead to war and strife not equitable? How many people might a principled man be willing to bloody his hands in killing in order to save a thousand times that many in the future? A million times? It's a tough thing to wrap one's head around. If you KNEW that you were fighting for the eventual formation of the perfect society, what wouldn't you be willing to do?
BigMikeMcBastard If I were fighting like the The Operative I would have laid waste to the entire planet before Mal came back. "The only thing that matters is the goal not the price"- Sanches
Josef Adama Well, Mal was taking refuge with a specific group of people, so the entire planet being obliterated when only a small portion is involved is probably excessive and certainly impractical (planets are big).
BigMikeMcBastard True it is impractical but effective because now Mal won't want to put anyone else in danger so he has no hiding place
Josef Adama On the other hand, the big reveal in Serenity that the Alliance killed a planetary population except for the small percentage who became Reavers was the end-game victory for the Firefly series. Destroying planetary populations is clearly not something that the Alliance would be able to get away with, especially if it's a planet wiped out for the sake of rooting out 8 fugitives.
One of the most underrated villains of all-time. And one of the most terrifying.
The operative showed who he was here, he was truely warning Mal the extent he is willing to go without hesitation. Sure he lost in the end but for the movies sake. But the operative was clear of what and who he was, aware of his actions and the horrors it resulted in, and yet he did them. This showed clearly how powerful he could be without wanting it. And Mal was truly afraid.
One could argue that the operative made the mistake of showing his hand here. By being brutally honest he gave his opponent far too much information about himself. Never give your opponent information about yourself.
Mal was never afraid of the Operative- he was afraid of BECOMING the like the Operative. Shepherd Book even told him to find something to believe because the Operative had a belief. Mal was much darker as a character than most people realize.
Trying to accomplish some "greater good" has been the excuse for the worst atrocities in human history.
Sooner or later, they'll swing round to that again.
@@StsFiveOneLima In the real world, they don't swing around to it again. They never leave it, keep trying it pretty continually.
@@SaulOhio they stop for a generation or two, then somebody tries again cause "this time it's different".
@@seanwilliams7655 Mal said it in his "I aim to misbehave" speech.
@@seanwilliams7655 "generation"?
Try _hour..._
Well, _maybe_ "week..." at the outside...
One of my favorite antogonist ever. Such an underrated actor.
I was going to say he's widely regarded as one of the finest screen actors of our time, which would make him correctly rated, but, thinking about it, you're right - he probably hasn't ever got the credit he's deserved. Even the MCU, which should have been saving him as a massive ace in the hole, used in as a secondary character in one of their more throwaway films. Granted, he was probably the best thing about it anyway and, given who he was playing, he was probably originally intended to be the main villain of the sequel but it didn't turn out that way.
How to write a terrifying villain. A believer.
And there are a lot.
12 years a monster!
Lol
“I don’t murder children”
“I do... if I must”
What a badass moment
Such a short quote...and yet you still got it wrong
@@MrAppleOrchard I mean...
It's pretty fucked up either way...
thats not badass. Thats insanity.
Hes more insane than the children of the light (wheel of time)
Threatening to kill children aint Badass
@@EvanCops This lets you know that a lot of people are insane.
The perfect lawful evil character
And that's why true believers are the scariest
One of my favorite movie villains. The guy knew exactly what he was and what he valued. The scary thing is that you can see him mirrored in a lot of online communities. They are so convinced that they have the world figured out and that their vision is the right one.
I love the resolution with this character too, when he's made to look at what his ideology actually results in. The realization he is not building a better world after all broke him.
Probably the best portayal of a Lawful Evil character I've seen
And THAT folks is the conviction of a Zelot
I liked the operative. While he is delusional he is also very clear headed. Delusional about ends justify means, but at the same time he was everything but delusional that what he does is everything but ethical. And he is very aware that what he does also changes him and makes him incompatible with the world he is trying to create.
He is the prime example for a true and absolute fanatic with pragmatic tendencies. He believes so strongly that "his work" will end in a so much better place that the bloody path is worth taking.
I mean, he surely is a "bad guy". Yet one cannot ignore that his will to sacrifice everything for a better future, not just his life but in essence his very soul, makes him actually more of a hero than so many other "good guys", who actually just stumbled into doing the right thing. Not talking about Mal here, Mal is actually a good guy at heart who simply hit a wall. Failed and now tries to make the best of it. He cannot help himself but to continue to do the right thing despite knowing better sometimes.
One thing about the Operative that shows that he is actually not "evil"-evil and still very "evil"-evil is how the actor chose to say "I do., when Mal says "I don't murder children", It seems not just that the Operative is not taking pleasure at what he does, it also seems that he regrets it and does it because of this inherent believe that it is completely necessary.
And here lies the thing, the Operative cannot be swayed with morality or emotional argumentation. He's fanatically pragmatic. If Mal could've proven to him that he could've reached the better world in another way, or that his superiors do not share his vision of a perfect future, there's a good chance he would've switched sides.
The actions of the Operative are evil. The Operative himself is kinda more a neutral character.
The operative is such an interesting character, he's basically what happens when you go full utilitarianism. The whole exchange between him and Malcolm about murdering children really exemplifies that, the way the operative responds you get the impression he actually feels bad about what he does, like he knows his actions are wrong but because in his mind more people will benefit from the atrocities he commits than would be victimized by them he tells himself it's okay.
Nothing more terrifying than a monster who knows they are a monster that has no hope for redemption…. Just a reason for their existence
i never thought an blindly loyal zealot could be made an interesting character, but here we are
I see the operative as the other side of the coin from Vincent in Collateral. Both men totally able to detach themselves from the evil thst they do but for drastically different reasons. The Operative is a true believer, he wants a better world and will do what he feels needs to be done. For Vincent, it's just a job. No morality or scruples about it as he likely doesn't have any. Neither man can be reasoned with and neither one will stop(yes the Operative does let them go but that's because he failed and therefore the job no longer requires their deaths). I absolutely love this villian type because it allows for engaging characters without the need for a redemption arc or some tragic backstory.
This is still the character I think of every time I see Mordo in the MCU
but he thanos ;-)
Watching events over the last few years has given me a better appreciation for the Operative's perspective.
_The Operative's?_ seriously?
@@seand.g423 Playing by the rules doesn't work when the other side refuses to. Ultimately, someone needs to get their hands dirty.
@@nicholassmith7984 oh... you were talking about _that_ aspect... _got_ it...
Still a weird takeaway from _the Operative,_ instead of _Mal,_ tho...
@@seand.g423 Oh, Mal absolutely has the moral high-ground in this case. No disputing that.
such a great movie. Glad they gave Firefly a real send off although easy to argue this wouldn't have been the finale.
Oh woe to thee, ye people of order
I hope your homes continue to smolder
And that you never rise again
And leave me be and leave my friends
One of the coldest lines of any villain ever
The greatest evil is done by those who think they are serving a greater good. The Operative thought he was serving a greater good. Mel Renelds realized he was facing the greatest evil he had everfaced and he had to fight it.
He was so cold and calculated. Great acting!
ADDENDUM: If you think about it, the Operative's beliefs are a sort of dark reflection of one of Alexander's sections from "The World Was Wide Enough":
Legacy, what is a legacy?
It's planting seeds in a garden you never get to see...
There's a reason that he went from relatively unknown to vig roles in major movies after this.
Great dialog between two opposing foe's.
Don't happen much anymore.
One of the best bad guys ever!
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
From the Alliance påerspective, the Operative is the good guy and Mal is the outlaw. From our point of view, it's the other way around..
Funny how a point of view can absolve crimes and violent behaviour..
It's fairly obvious the Preacher used to be an operative, just like this guy.
he was a a double agent for the brown coats. there is a comic on his history. It doesn't fit well with Firefly, because it's too sci fi.
@@slewone4905 I never read the comics, but I'd say his planned back story was probably that he was the one who caused the Serenity battle loss. There was clearly a sudden massive shift in that battle, and even though the war didn't end precisely there, the show even says that was pretty much the end of the war. So the preacher was likely involved in that, possibly to save as many lives as possible, knowing it was a hopeless cause. He clearly became a preacher as some way to try to find peace for the things he did, or as a penance. But I'm guessing that if the show had gone on, eventually Mal would have found out what the preacher did, causing conflict that needed to be settled.
I start fighting a war I guarantee you'll see something knew. Mal may not murder children, but when you push the right button he's no less a monster.
He's a villain whom is aware he is a villain and that he knows what he does is wrong and that he does it because it's his job. The Alliance pay him to kill if necessary and he kills.
I wonder if in a way he is like the samurais.🤔 That came to me because of the sword and maybe a good knowledge of their practices, although I have no idea if they obeyed their master blindly..
I don’t think someone like this is worried about something as pedestrian as payment.
A corrupt samurai who is aware of what he is.
@@danielwilliamson6180 The thing is, he isn't corrupt, because he's doing exactly what he's supposed to.
If you think about it. Anybody who does something for the “Greater Good”, are driven to even committing the “Greatest Evil” to achieve it.
My favorite line in the movie is Mal saying I AIM TO MISBEHAVE.
He's Vader - *The Ultimate Father.*
But with just three crucial differences :
1) He's a Bachelor - his entire demeanour and bearing (plus everything that he *says* ) all tend towards the suggestion of a solitary, monastic existence of Duty, Faith and Purpose, with no personal ties of sentiment or emotional attachment - Which is precisely what all Jedi are taught, and assumed to be like, and what Anakin Skywalker was *supposed* to be like, although very obviously, nobody was actually bothering to actually check up on these sorts of things, police the Knights adherence to their Jedi vows or ensure compliance with The Jedi Code by enforcing their Laws, because nobody in The Jedi Order noticed that he had taken a wife and had just sired a child with her, even though they were cohabiting in their own house together for over *THREE YEARS* ...
2) The Operative knows that he is going to Hell, he knows that when that happens, he will have his story straight, and his soul prepared to suffer the consequence of his lifetime accumulation of sin, and yet still not repent of it. Of any of it.
Vader, on the other hand, was certainly not consciously planning or intending to cast himself into The Pit of Hell to get what he most truly wanted (again, *for other people* , the people whom he loved, not for himself)
That's a brilliant comparison. It should also be noted that the Anakin of the Prequel Trilogy in no way matched the Vader of the originals, in character or in motivation. They may as well have been two completely separate entities.
3 years later I'm:
1) still waiting for that third crucial difference
2) trying to understand what the hell does it have to do with Firefly
3) the fuck is the ultimate father
@@hoarder1919 Can’t Remember.
And That's Why it's Called
A *"Pride"* of Lions.
This dude could be new Kang but he already in the MCU! 😅
there is a lot of Kirk/Kahn to this scene
Turn on captions - it completely changes the emotional feel of the scene! Haha!
Wow!! I'm French and it's the first time i heard this scene in English. Chiwetel Ejiofor's voice made me cry (nearly). "I do... if i have to." Yeah, he's a fucking good comedian.
Joe m. joe
uh... in french, it's "comédien". I thought "comedian" was the word in English :-p wrong
Joe m. joe
that's true. French is one of the most difficult langage.
In arabic, i just know salam haleikum and nardin amouk (i'm not sure of prononciation)
najdin mean "Oh shit", i think
I would love for a conversation between issac of castlvania and the operative from serenity. One the chaotic good (issac) the other orderly evil (operative).
the trope of the figure who strives to bring about a better they are disqualified from ever seeing dates back to Moses in the biblical book of Exodus, who despite delivering his people from Egypt to the promised land, was barred from ever entering
A better world created with out sin....but made by sin...What's the difference....
The ends justify the means.
Greed, for a lack of a better word, is good.
Communism failed, because there is a lack of drive. Greed helps give people incentive to improve the world. We attract the best doctor, with money. we innovate for profit.
Besides, how can Humanity survive, with out selfishness.
@@slewone4905 Wow, that's an amazingly cynical viewpoint - are you Ayn Rand?
@@XarkoCZ The ends can justify the means, they don't inherently
@@slewone4905 That is why greed must be controlled, not let loose
This guy is voicing Scar, FYI. Scar is gonna sound like a straight up cold evil psychopath in the new Lion King
As good an actor as this guy is he'll never measure up to Jeremy Irons as Scar.
rational and fanatic all at once
Mal could have made a better argument. If Operative committed all those atrocities because he believed those activities would result in the better world, then how does he know that "better world" is being created if he doesn't ask questions? For all he knows, the top officials are only in it to for their own greed and doesn't care if the whole world burns (which directly goes against Operative's idea of a "better world").
Ultimately Mal didn’t need to make the argument, instead he showed him what happened at Miranda and that’s what shattered the Operative’s faith in the Alliance. Would have been interesting to see what would happen to that character sometime later, having to reconcile with his evil actions that didn’t lead to a better world.
@@Stockslivevan Yes, but Mal didn't know what happened at Miranda in this clip.
@@michaelsong5555 he didn’t know about Miranda at the time, but he knew what the alliance was capable of. Much like River, seeing them as “meddlesome”.
We have people like that now. It's near impossible to get through to them .
@@Stockslivevan Sorry about the late reply. Anyways, Mal knew that the top officials are evil, but the point of my comment is that if Operative didn't know that the people who change things aren't changing things for the better, then Operative has no grounds to argue that he's doing something for "the better world" crap -- he's just killing because he doesn't give a crap about anything, much less his "better world". Taking Mal's personality, he would have called BS on Operative's hypocrisy.
Apex Tier character.
The operative really failed to recognize the flaw of pride in himself that he killed the man in the beginning over. The operative may be methodical and stoic but he still reeks of hubris like he can’t fail. We see mal here and think that he is fuming mad which is true. He is beyond rage but it is really born out of love. In the operative’s own words that’s something far more dangerous. The operative in all his machinations failed to realize that he was awaking enough unbridled love to take down the alliance
Extremely similar to Luthen’s speech in Andor.
Cayde-6 vs Scar!
Woah.
No one else in these ancient comments is probably gonna see this, but Operative reminds me a lot of Light Yagami from Death Note. He does terrible things for the sake of a “better world,” but what sets them apart and what, for me, makes Operative the morally superior one, is precisely what he says in this clip. He knows he’s a monster and does evil things, and he knows he should burn with the rest of the world for it. Light insists that he’s right in murdering the people he does, and truly believes he deserves a place in his world where no one is cruel, though he’s done cruel things. Light is delusional about the things he does, but Operative is fully aware of his evilness and does it anyways, for the sake of *others.*
Excellent observation, The Operative is not the delusional child that Light Yagami is.
The funny thing, though, is that, while your analysis is on point, the Operative is _immensely_ delusional; he's just (unlike Light) not delusional about himself. His delusion is of the world he believes he's working to create. He doesn't think _he_ deserves to live in it, sure, but he's perfectly happy to assume that the people who gave him his orders and know exactly what he'll do with those orders because, well, that's why they chose him to give them to, deserve not only to live in it but to _rule_ it. This isn't to condemn him - it honestly gives the role a lot of pathos for me. For all his brilliance and all his self-awareness, he never saw through his own indoctrination. It, "[wasn't his] place to ask," as it were - at least until it was far too late. Also makes Chiwetel Ejiofor's performance almost uniquely brilliant, that he's able to give such humanity to someone who believes he's nothing but a weapon for 'better' men to point at things that need destroyed.
Joss Is Boss
Yes, Karen, he is.
I would love a villain like The Operative who knows he's evil, but also enjoys doing terrible things.
An honest Utopian... well at least he claims to be honest.
Sounds a lot like NSDAP and CCCP to me....
The idea that there are people who do evil in service of the greater good and they know what they do and know they have no place in the new world is one we ahve encountered.
In the fields of eastern europe Heinrich himmler visited the Einsatzgruppen, the nazi death squad units tasked with murdering partisans, dissidents, committed communists and overwhelmingly, jews - men, women and children. The task took its toll on the soldiers and major nazi leaders visited them for morale and expressed concerns about their mental stress.
Himmler in his speeches, one of which is documented, tells the men that they all know what they are doing is a horrible, disgusting task, and the reason it drains them is that they are good people. He says they are sacrificing their morality for a higher good - a greater german Reich, living space for good germans, and superior ethnic harmony so nobody has to do things like this again.
Whether the nazi leadership really gave a shit about these soldiers, many of whom were conscripts from occupied areas, I doubt. I also disagree with the idea that if you murder children it's okay if you know it's wrong. Point is, Whedon nailed the mindset of a war criminal.
If the Operative was doing all this for his family or crew, you'd be cheering him on. But do it for a state or an ideology, and it's wrong? There's like this level of which people will find this kind of behavior acceptable or not, and it really does seem like it's where one can see someone's face or not.
What I love about the character is he couldn't begin to comprehend what drove Mal. The way they created him and made him so sociopathic made him completely incapable of understanding the links that the crew would go to protect one of their own. That you Utopia that he's talking about is a place where there is no such thing as family because those emotions have to be destroyed by the state so that the state can have control and put everybody in their place. But he never understood was love is chaotic and chaotic people can't be predicted to do the things that you want them to do which is why in the end Mal and the crew won and he lost.
His first scene is literally accurately and empathicly understanding the reason for Simon's rescue, "It's love in point of fact". He lost because Josh Whedon needed his guys to win so a load of contrivance had to occur.
you cant "not think green elephant"
The Operative has more integrity than anyone I've seen in the religious right--because he doesn't lie to himself about damning himself for the salvation of others.
Id say more integrity than anyone, to be honest.
The "religious right"? You mean extremists in general?
@ricardo demetrio alonso rojas
No. Not the same.
Not everyone who is religious is an extremist and extremism isn't limited to religion.
First time I saw this movie I was horrfired by this character.
thanos
There is a song of this somewhere in a dubstep and I can not find it again!!! Can anyone help me?
Arkasia- Hopeless
Thought I told u
Wasted potential for a spinoff with the Operative trying to find his place in the world. could have a redemptive arc for him
A sinful person cannot create a perfect, sinless world.
Sin is a concept created by the religious power base that think we are creations of some higher power.
@@CactusCowboyDan You are correct. Sin is a supernatural concept, as is free will. Deny sin, you also deny free will.
@@crb2061 Yeah no. That rule doesn’t work. Because animals also have free will. Are they sinners also because they eat each other?
@@CactusCowboyDan Behavior is sinful or righteous to the extent that it can be chosen. Animals generally don't have a choice on what they eat, so their behavior is neither sinful nor righteous. As the scope of choice becomes more expansive due to the advancement of civilization and technology, then behavior also increase in sinfulness or righteousness. In this era, where it is so easy to satisfy worldly desires to excess, the potential for sinfulness is greater than in the times of the gospel. Likewise, because the potential for sinfulness is so great, also the righteousness of those who trust in God for protection against sin is also increased. But as always, judgement and condemnation belong to the Lord alone. May the peace of the Lord be upon you.
@@crb2061 News flash:
God isn’t real. There is no sin or righteousness. Everything in religion is just a story to make you be a good little boy. Nothing more.
Faith is belief based on the absence of data. So either wake up or stay in your little wonderland.
Sorry for being so short tempered. But I have no patience for delusions anymore.
definitely changes the show when you realize firefly is based on The Killer Angels & stagecoach
Richard Castle VS. Scar
Why the fuck did you cut it off?
YOU THINK I CARE?
'Great Reset' and 'Build Back Better' in a nutshell
The operative is competent. Our leaders aren't
@@slewone4905 you assume our 'leaders' are in charge. flawed thinking.
@@slewone4905 Based.
Not even remotly comparable things don't see how infrasctructure improvements are going to transform the world into the 1890s
and of course it's hilarious your ilk whine about the great reset bullshit when it's what you want in the first place, because anything other than utter corporate rule is "LITTTERALLY USSSR" to you
@@kenetickups6146 totally comparable. Blue Sun corp and tge Alliance were corperate facist. Much like globalist Elites are. A collevtivist slavestate.
Most true conservitives are for lmited govt and individualist ideals.
Get off the hashpipe
"A better world... a world without sin!"
Now who does that remind us of?! :D #LookingAtYouReligiousPeople
Same as the progressives and ultra liberals. Just sin is defined differently.
@@kopilit Especially now...
@@kopilit "ultra liberals"
topkek what does that even mean?
As much as I like Operative, I think he's a hypocrite. He believes in a "better world", but all he ever does is follow orders (and doesn't even question the motive of the guy that gives out orders, or worse, don't even know the guy who's giving out the order). If he's doing things to better the world, then he needs to actually understand the motives of the order and the likely outcome of carrying out the order. They're a set deal -- you can't have one without the other.
I have no problem with people just following orders, but if you're gonna do that, then don't speak of some nobler cause. That's just bullshit.
That's exactly what he is. And it's ultimately why he breaks free from the Alliance at the end of the film after he hears the Miranda recording. Once he recognizes what the Alliance actually is he realizes that he can no longer justify doing the horrible things he does for them.
@@dstacyify No, he left the Alliance, because he saw the result of the "better world" that he envisioned, and it sucked ass. He still didn't think Alliance was evil or anything, even by the end of the movie. He simply left, because he no longer had the vision that kept him going (ie better world where everything is good and peaceful is impossible).
@@michaelsong5555 you have to remember, he's working on belief. It was kind of a theme of the movie. The Operative has faith in the cause of the Alliance. Faith isn't logical. Or at least it doesn't have to be. Once he saw the video, he had a crisis of faith. That's why he goes to talk to Mal at the end of the movie.
That's the whole point of the ending. He saw what the Alliance did to make things better, and it caused nothing but death and destruction. His job was more crude, but it also explained why his job existed: The Pax was a failure, so they resorted to cruder methods, which pretty much showed that the entire endeavor was a pipe dream. Here he saw the culmination of his pipe dream: A chemical put in the air that caused people to become soo docile, they stopped caring about everything. There was no war, but there was also no motivation. The drug didn't just do it, it was also a result of people having no conflict to drive them. He realized that there was never going to be a better world under their rule, because the people in power were monsters themselves, and that he was merely a henchman to protect those monsters by cleaning up their messes. He realized his entire cause was a lie.
Like basic logic dude. If you have to create your ideal world through monstrosity, you should doubt it's going to turn out the way you think.
Then: evil villian.
today: almost every GOP politican on fox news.
You see that's your problem you want everyone to live in your little get together world that's why you called The GOP evil because we opposed that little fake Utopia. My friend that you have to live in the world that is realistic they're all there is always going to be hate and there's always going to be dislikement of individuals. You might as well settle for survival of the fittest because that is a realistic vision for humanity not this lovey dovey everyone gets along because that will be a boring world to live in.
Wasn't really much of a speech to be honest, from either of them.