Original Sin in Oriental Orthodoxy & Catholicism: ROUNDTABLE
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- #catholic #debate
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Glad I could actually watch this amazing lesson...outside of the hospital bed! Thank you gents and blessings to you and yours!🙏🏼✝️🕊
May the Holy Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ comfort you. By the precious blood of our truly Risen Lord Jesus Christ may you’ve healed. Praying for you dear sister.
In Mexico it was normal for the dad to take the babies to get baptized after a few days while the mother was still recovering from the birth.
It was the norm everywhere which is why the godmother is the one who holds the baby during Baptism! Now we have cars so it's more common that the mother is present but it's still the godparents who hold and answer for the baby
@@MB-zn9vg I did know that all cotholic countries have the same traditions. I was just hesitant about posting it since things have changed and most do bother to ask about the past.
Love these roundtables they take me back to the good old days of R&T circa 2019
Watching rn due to different time zones. Always love this collaborations amongst friends and brothers
One of my favorite topics discussed. I loved everything about this stream. ❤
I’m looking forward to listening to this now
really enjoyed this dialog with sub deacon Daniel , im a Catholic and often try to catch his livestreams at the Lions den. Thanks brothers.
Can’t wait for this!
Really really good this. Thanks guys.
1:00:07 “we agree on the sacraments, but what are the sacraments saving us from?” Looking forward to hearing more on that!
What a great talk so far. I don't know if this has already been mentioned in the previous talk, but wanting to just offer another historical proof about what the Orthodox historically believed and taught about original sin, when the Lutherans of Tübingen sent a copy of the Augsburg Confession to the Patriarch of Constantinople Jeremiah II, the Patriarch replied (1576) to the "wise German men" as follows concerning the second article dealing with the issue of original sin:
"Their second article contains the affirmation that every man is guilty of original sin. We also affirm that this is indeed the truth."
Both the answers of Jeremiah II to the Lutherans and the decrees of the Synod of Jerusalem (1672) are considered as chief statements of faith within (Eastern) Orthodoxy.
Can’t wait to see this
Beautiful 👌
I baptized very recently my youngest three days after birth 🙏
45:34 I don’t understand why so many people have a hard time thinking of infants getting to heaven if they die before baptism. It’s hardly the Catholic take, even if the ccc is vague due to a perceived lack of revelation. I’d argue instead that there is plenty of revelation if you know where to look.
For instance, the church recognizes that besides the baptism of water there are the equally valid baptism of desire and baptism of blood. Many martyrs had no time for baptism in the early church as stories of men so moved by the conviction of the dying that they joined them abound from that time. Who would dare to say that men of such great faith in God and moved by the spirit would die the eternal death after giving their mortal life to God? And the baptism of desire is no different. It is explicitly listed as those who do their best to live a good life and who THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN do not receive sacramental baptism are still saved.
After all: Elijah had no baptism but like mother Mary he was taken body and soul to heaven even before Christ’s saving death. Are you going to assume he EARNED that blessing through his own merit and not through God’s grace? Enoch was taken body and soul into heaven like Elijah and Mary after and he was before even the first law was given. Before even the first ark was built to prefigure the baptism of the world from the evil of the past. Did he earn it? Was it not a grace given to him?
How much more then, would infants be able to receive that blessing? It was no fault of theirs that they passed. It may have even been due to the hand of another. Are those slain by men rebelling against the hand of God not martyrs? Are those who die before the age of reason incapable of actual sin and therefore personally guiltless? Would God allow a human to be made just to send them away by failing to protect them until they can be born? Perish the thought!
I truly believe those who believe in limbo are forgetting a step in their speculations. Jesus said that at the end of the age, when the final judgment transpires and the old world passes away the newly resurrected will be split in two: those in heaven and those in hell. Where is limbo in this equation? At the bodily resurrection are we all meant to marvel at God’s mercy and justice as screaming infants given body for the first time are hurled into the lake of fire after doing no wrong, and never having the chance to decide for themselves to accept or reject salvation?
Lastly, what is Good without God? Nothing. There can be no goodness natural or supernatural without God. Therefore I’d argue there is no such thing as a natural state of happiness without God. After all, hell is eternal separation from God. And that too is why purgatory is suffering but with hope. It is separation from God due to sin but there is hope for that connection after we are purified. Where does Limbo fit into that equation? After Jesus’s death and resurrection, there is no place.
When I was young, the only time I heard of Limbo was as the place where souls waited after purgatory but before Jesus had restored our path into heaven. I believe it was Pope Benedict XVI who stated we should stop calling it limbo and call it by the biblical name: the bosom of Abraham. Unlike what Dante proposed, this would not be a part of hell and it would not contain anyone after Jesus’s visit.
Start 1:49
Original Sin is the name of every honest man's conclusion after observing the Bible. Of course, every man since Adam is guilty of Adam's sin: rebellion against GOD'S WORD (1 John 1:8; Romans 3:23). Since Adam and Eve, every human being has been guilty of missing the mark, as Adam and Ever were, for how GOD created human beings to live, which is to live in keeping with HIS WORD (1 John 2:5). So, when Adam and Eve failed to trust and obey GOD'S WORD, and when they forsook and rebelled against it, they missed the mark (Genesis 3). Every human being since Adam and Eve has rejected GOD'S WORD and has missed the mark, which means that every man has sinned. CHRIST demonstrated by never sinning that HE WAS GOD (Hebrews 4:15), for GOD IS PERFECT (Matthew 5:48), for there is no darkness in HIM at all (1 John 1:5) and we are commanded to be perfect as HE IS PERFECT; therefore, GOD cannot miss the mark.
The comment that Daniel made about his tradition not going crazy with icons because they had nothing to double down against, is such a great statement. Sometimes it seems like in some Eastern Orthodox, Eastern Catholic,and western Catholic churches , the question went from " can we have a section of the wall that we can have an icon on?" To " can we have a section of a wall that doesn't have an icon?" Lol. Sometimes we all like to double down on the distinctions instead of being more in harmony with others