Is it perfect? No. Will it be perfect, no. But it is a great idea generator to start you thinking on keywords that may not have dawned on you. So I think you showed it well.
Thanks for a really good preview of Keyword AI. When I first started the photography hobby in 2012, I didn't keyword my photos. I really only started that 'habit' when Photo RAW was first released and I moved over from Lightroom. I see this new feature as a big help, especially in giving me keyword ideas. I'm sure that those quirks will be ironed out to a reasonable extent by the release of PR2023 & continually improve from there. Before you even mentioned it, I picked up on Keyword AI not detecting "Photographer".
Thanks for the overview. It made me realize that ON1's separate "Keyword AI" app is part of Photo Raw 2023 and I don't need to buy it separately. ON1 certainly isn't going out of its way to make that clear. Another thing - as far as I can see, the "Scan" function can't be applied to whole folders or folder hierarchies. I would find it useful to turn it loose on a folder with an "Add All" option selected sometimes and let it apply whatever it finds. Lastly, even after selecting "Add" to found keywords on photos and closing the program, those keywords did NOT show up with the same photo in Adobe Bridge or Lightroom though you indicated they should. Not sure what's going on there but that makes this feature pretty useless for me. Again, thanks for the overview.
ON1 folds in features to Photo RAW - that's the "hub" for ON1 tools. Sometimes a feature is in Photo RAW first, then makes it way to other plugins (like this case). Sometimes, it's the reverse (that happened with Resize in 2022). Anyway ... assuming you have sidecars turned on in Photo RAW to create the XMPs, after adding AI keywords in Photo RAW, did you do a Synchronize Folder in Lightroom? That tells LR to pull in any metadata changes that may have happened in external applications.
I'm not very thorough with keywords despites I like them. Was already considering the upgrade for the mask/select AI but this keyword AI might just be the convincing factor. Thank you so much for sharing and also for the awesome humor about the photograph keyword, that made my day.
Should be a very useful aid for those, like me, who lack the commitment to catalogue/keyword as a general practice, but occasionally want to search for a particular image or class of images. It may even encourage me to put more effort into organising and grading my old images. Now if it could star rate the images for quality, that would be a real bonus.
Hi Lindsay .. hmm ... auto-liking or auto-rating ... not sure about that one :) So many varied tastes of photographers ... maybe an auto-reject or auto-dislike if an AI can find obviously blurry photos... that might be interesting down the line.
Cool, thanks Scott. It sounds a lot like Excire Photo that I use to analyze and keyword my images before I import them to Lr which I find very useful. Excire also has some pretty good facial recognition capabilities for searching for a particular face, do you know if ON12023 has something similar? Thanks.
Yep. Same concept as Excire. I haven't seen any indications of individual face detection or where you could name family members and have them auto-detected (again, using a pre-release).
Thank you for the deeper dive into Keywording AI. I was hoping to see how one adds Photo Raw AI generated keywords to a pre-existing hierarchy. For example, if I have a currently existing keyword category titled "WHAT" (like "WHO", "WHERE" etc) and I already have a hierarchy such as "WHAT < Bicycle" would Photo Raw append additional AI identified keywords such as spoke and pedal underneath the pre-existing hierarchy so that it would read as WHAT < Bicycle < spoke, WHAT < Bicycle < pedal?
Hi Bob ... yeah... that's not there, at least in the pre-release, that's not there. No drag and drop or other options beyond the 'add' arrows or Add All. And that's to the individually selected photo. (I logged a bug with ON1 about multi-select and Add All).
@@ScottDavenport Thanks for clarifying. For what I do with Keywords, this particular pre-release does not meet my needs. This pre-release needs additional capability to be useful for my needs. Hopefully they will beef up the AI Keyword capability.
Thanks for the Vid I'm a newbie (Affinity user) - just bought 2023 (they allowed me 2022.5 till release date so I'm up and running). Will you be doing a 2023 specific set of tutorials or should I look back on the 2022 ones?
Hi Simon… definitely look at my prior tutorials. Most (if not all) in the last 2 years continue to apply. Photo RAW is iterative and the general flow of the product and editing tools remain consistent. Example: the masking series I did recently and another series on every filter in Effects very much translate to the new product. Have fun!
Great video, thanks! How can you save the keywords in the file so they can be read by other programs? It appears they only get saved in the ON1 sidecar file.
So, if I understand correctly you must add the AI keywords to your master keyword directory before you can search on them. Is that correct, or can you search your entire catalog choosing from a list of AI keywords? Terrific videos.
Hi Bruce … not quite. You _can_ search AI keywords directly. No need to add them as “classic” keywords. Search fields like “Everything” which scans all things searchable picks them up. As does the search box in the filter at the bottom of browse (you see that in the video). I recall there is also a specific search option for AI Keywords (away from the machine, otherwise I’d confirm)
Can't answer how long ... depends on the power & VRAM of your GPU and the general speed of your computer and storage. Doesn't do videos. Places .... the keywords will pull from GPS (maybe IPTC location, don't remember off-hand) for locations. A few super-recognizable things (think Eiffel Tower) might get picked up. Not sure what you mean by 'catalog metadata in photos' ... ON1 can do searches through AI keywords directly in browse. You can also copy the AI keywords to the standard IPTC keywords.
As always, a good video Scott. I have never used keywords, as I couldn't be bothered to go back over all my scans from donkeys years ago. However, I do name all my photos with some sort of location, even if it's just the town or city, and with named people. Does Keyword AI pick up on those and add them? Does it also recognise famous buildings?
HI Ray... the location data from your file name may get picked up, if you have the preferences set to include those as 'hints' to Keyword AI. I'm less sure about famous building detection - my limited, unscientific sample set didn't yield conclusive results :-/ .
Scott what process are you using to efficiently put GPS location on your Sony camera photos? I have never found a good reliable method except to manually put the GPS in in Browse. I really appreciate the analysis that you do in your videos.
Hi David ... I hope you're doing well ... in ON1, it's using Browse, either the Map view or directly pasting values into the Metadata tab. I use an app on my phone to create a GPX track log while I'm out, then pair it up with photos in Lightroom (LR remains my asset manager for a variety of historical reasons). There are alternatives like ExifTool which, if you have a GPX track log, you can tag a batch of photos. Then tools like ON1 should pick those up.
Great video Scott. Do you have any idea as to whether or not those keywords will get carried over to other programs? I think this could be a great tool to use and could allow you to search your images and other programs like capture one or Lightroom.
A method I could see is adding the AI Keywords to your classic keywords (the "Add All" button) and writing out the metadata for consumption by other programs. If exporting TIFF/PSD, the 'classic' keywords can be included. I've not done anything with trying to output XMP from ON1 (not sure how to do that)
PhotoRAW has an option in the Files section of Preferences to save On1 sidecar files, not sure if you need to check this to get .xmp files written with keyword updates etc. I have it checked and I am seeing .xmp files updated when I change keywords in On1 and Lightroom and PhotoLAB both pick up keywords added this way. So if you like any of the Keyword AI suggestions then add them to your normal keywords and other applications should pick them up. However this might be more useful when applied to new photos, doesn't seem to be a way to bulk apply keywords to lots of images in one go.
Does keywording rely on a catalogued folder, because if it does, it's not a feature I'll be able to use. PhotoRaw has been cataloguing my folder structure (95k files) for four days, 10 hours a day and is hammering the drive where the photographs are stored, Worst of all it says a folder is 100% catalogued, ten minutes later it's telling me only about 20% is catalogued, so I'm just about to delete the catalogued folders before my hard disk gets destroyed.
Hi Mike.... no, it doesn't not. You can use Keyword AI on any photo. You may need to manually "Scan" the photo (that's been my experience). You can select multiple photos and scan them in a batch.
Hi Alan ... I'm not much of a wildlife photographer (which is to say you could count on one hand the number of animal photos I have). There most certainly is smarts for animals in Photo RAW 2023 (some of ON1's demo videos show "Animal" as a category in Mask AI). How deep that knowledge goes - dog, cat, horse, pig, fox, etc. - I'm not sure.
Hi Scott. I dont believe that AI picks up things like “spoke” and “rim” - once It detects a bicycle, it probably has a list of component parts that it includes in suggested keywords. Same with “outerwear” deduced from combination of Landscape and Person.
Hi Ian… I haven’t tried the new tool. Not something I’m planning to use in my workflow, so not center of my radar to try. Thinking out loud…. Maybe for LR, if the ON1 keyworder makes an XMP file *and* Lightroom can be told to read it. I don’t know if that’s viable in all scenarios… for example, if you already use LR XMP files, will ON1 merge data into it?
Hi Scott nice like your Keyword AI .I tryed to buy on1Foto Raw 2023 tonight from Germany but I did not Work I what to send the Money to them from my bank did not work SO IT LOOKS LIKE I WILL not get it. Just go a New laptop Asus Zenbook Prp 17 Lachlan the Scott,s Guy From Germany
In my view Scott, this pre-release you ably showcased is really not quite ready for the big-time. It has too many quirks which you clearly identified which deter me from committing to it at this time. I'm looking forward to your in-depth review of the "final" version and reporting on its capabilities and limitations.
And I expect quirks to continue. And for those of us that are more "die hard" keyword adders, I see features like this as bonuses. I'd poked at other AI-powered keyword tools as well ... and they have quirks, too. What is nice is AI Keywords are kept separate so they don't "pollute" your existing keywords. Thanks for watching!
Looking forward to trying out this feature and how it will help my searches
Is it perfect? No. Will it be perfect, no. But it is a great idea generator to start you thinking on keywords that may not have dawned on you. So I think you showed it well.
Well said, Danny. If you don't keyword at all, it's a bonus. If you do keyword, it's an idea generator (and a bonus :).
Very cool! Thanks Scott.
You bet!
Thanks for a really good preview of Keyword AI. When I first started the photography hobby in 2012, I didn't keyword my photos. I really only started that 'habit' when Photo RAW was first released and I moved over from Lightroom. I see this new feature as a big help, especially in giving me keyword ideas. I'm sure that those quirks will be ironed out to a reasonable extent by the release of PR2023 & continually improve from there. Before you even mentioned it, I picked up on Keyword AI not detecting "Photographer".
Hi Colin ... it's a real boost if you're not a keyword-person by nature :)
Thanks for the overview. It made me realize that ON1's separate "Keyword AI" app is part of Photo Raw 2023 and I don't need to buy it separately. ON1 certainly isn't going out of its way to make that clear. Another thing - as far as I can see, the "Scan" function can't be applied to whole folders or folder hierarchies. I would find it useful to turn it loose on a folder with an "Add All" option selected sometimes and let it apply whatever it finds. Lastly, even after selecting "Add" to found keywords on photos and closing the program, those keywords did NOT show up with the same photo in Adobe Bridge or Lightroom though you indicated they should. Not sure what's going on there but that makes this feature pretty useless for me. Again, thanks for the overview.
ON1 folds in features to Photo RAW - that's the "hub" for ON1 tools. Sometimes a feature is in Photo RAW first, then makes it way to other plugins (like this case). Sometimes, it's the reverse (that happened with Resize in 2022). Anyway ... assuming you have sidecars turned on in Photo RAW to create the XMPs, after adding AI keywords in Photo RAW, did you do a Synchronize Folder in Lightroom? That tells LR to pull in any metadata changes that may have happened in external applications.
I'm not very thorough with keywords despites I like them. Was already considering the upgrade for the mask/select AI but this keyword AI might just be the convincing factor. Thank you so much for sharing and also for the awesome humor about the photograph keyword, that made my day.
Glad I could help!
Should be a very useful aid for those, like me, who lack the commitment to catalogue/keyword as a general practice, but occasionally want to search for a particular image or class of images. It may even encourage me to put more effort into organising and grading my old images. Now if it could star rate the images for quality, that would be a real bonus.
Hi Lindsay .. hmm ... auto-liking or auto-rating ... not sure about that one :) So many varied tastes of photographers ... maybe an auto-reject or auto-dislike if an AI can find obviously blurry photos... that might be interesting down the line.
Cool, thanks Scott. It sounds a lot like Excire Photo that I use to analyze and keyword my images before I import them to Lr which I find very useful. Excire also has some pretty good facial recognition capabilities for searching for a particular face, do you know if ON12023 has something similar? Thanks.
Yep. Same concept as Excire. I haven't seen any indications of individual face detection or where you could name family members and have them auto-detected (again, using a pre-release).
Thank you for the deeper dive into Keywording AI. I was hoping to see how one adds Photo Raw AI generated keywords to a pre-existing hierarchy. For example, if I have a currently existing keyword category titled "WHAT" (like "WHO", "WHERE" etc) and I already have a hierarchy such as "WHAT < Bicycle" would Photo Raw append additional AI identified keywords such as spoke and pedal underneath the pre-existing hierarchy so that it would read as WHAT < Bicycle < spoke, WHAT < Bicycle < pedal?
Hi Bob ... yeah... that's not there, at least in the pre-release, that's not there. No drag and drop or other options beyond the 'add' arrows or Add All. And that's to the individually selected photo. (I logged a bug with ON1 about multi-select and Add All).
@@ScottDavenport Thanks for clarifying. For what I do with Keywords, this particular pre-release does not meet my needs. This pre-release needs additional capability to be useful for my needs. Hopefully they will beef up the AI Keyword capability.
Thanks for the Vid
I'm a newbie (Affinity user) - just bought 2023 (they allowed me 2022.5 till release date so I'm up and running). Will you be doing a 2023 specific set of tutorials or should I look back on the 2022 ones?
Hi Simon… definitely look at my prior tutorials. Most (if not all) in the last 2 years continue to apply. Photo RAW is iterative and the general flow of the product and editing tools remain consistent. Example: the masking series I did recently and another series on every filter in Effects very much translate to the new product. Have fun!
Great video, thanks! How can you save the keywords in the file so they can be read by other programs? It appears they only get saved in the ON1 sidecar file.
Keywords are embedded when you export (JPEG, TIFF, etc). The original photo isn’t modified.
Definitely a great new feature. I use Excire for the exported images, a very powerful tool.
I'd looked at Excire too ... And I like that Excire also keeps keywords separate from 'classic' keywords.
I want it to identify faces but I cannot figure out if it does it. Face recognition is in ACDsee Photo Ultimate 2023 so it can be done.
This is one great upgrade well worth the $$. And yes, your 20% discount did work.
Glad to hear it!
So, if I understand correctly you must add the AI keywords to your master keyword directory before you can search on them. Is that correct, or can you search your entire catalog choosing from a list of AI keywords? Terrific videos.
Hi Bruce … not quite. You _can_ search AI keywords directly. No need to add them as “classic” keywords. Search fields like “Everything” which scans all things searchable picks them up. As does the search box in the filter at the bottom of browse (you see that in the video). I recall there is also a specific search option for AI Keywords (away from the machine, otherwise I’d confirm)
How long would it take to scour 15tb of photos? Can it work on videos? Can it recognize specific places? Does it catalog metadata in photos?
Can't answer how long ... depends on the power & VRAM of your GPU and the general speed of your computer and storage. Doesn't do videos. Places .... the keywords will pull from GPS (maybe IPTC location, don't remember off-hand) for locations. A few super-recognizable things (think Eiffel Tower) might get picked up. Not sure what you mean by 'catalog metadata in photos' ... ON1 can do searches through AI keywords directly in browse. You can also copy the AI keywords to the standard IPTC keywords.
As always, a good video Scott. I have never used keywords, as I couldn't be bothered to go back over all my scans from donkeys years ago. However, I do name all my photos with some sort of location, even if it's just the town or city, and with named people. Does Keyword AI pick up on those and add them? Does it also recognise famous buildings?
HI Ray... the location data from your file name may get picked up, if you have the preferences set to include those as 'hints' to Keyword AI. I'm less sure about famous building detection - my limited, unscientific sample set didn't yield conclusive results :-/ .
Scott what process are you using to efficiently put GPS location on your Sony camera photos? I have never found a good reliable method except to manually put the GPS in in Browse. I really appreciate the analysis that you do in your videos.
Hi David ... I hope you're doing well ... in ON1, it's using Browse, either the Map view or directly pasting values into the Metadata tab. I use an app on my phone to create a GPX track log while I'm out, then pair it up with photos in Lightroom (LR remains my asset manager for a variety of historical reasons). There are alternatives like ExifTool which, if you have a GPX track log, you can tag a batch of photos. Then tools like ON1 should pick those up.
Pity it’s not linked to Google Lens. Then items could be identified and automatically have names added. Buildings, flowers and even people.
Great video Scott. Do you have any idea as to whether or not those keywords will get carried over to other programs? I think this could be a great tool to use and could allow you to search your images and other programs like capture one or Lightroom.
A method I could see is adding the AI Keywords to your classic keywords (the "Add All" button) and writing out the metadata for consumption by other programs. If exporting TIFF/PSD, the 'classic' keywords can be included. I've not done anything with trying to output XMP from ON1 (not sure how to do that)
PhotoRAW has an option in the Files section of Preferences to save On1 sidecar files, not sure if you need to check this to get .xmp files written with keyword updates etc. I have it checked and I am seeing .xmp files updated when I change keywords in On1 and Lightroom and PhotoLAB both pick up keywords added this way. So if you like any of the Keyword AI suggestions then add them to your normal keywords and other applications should pick them up.
However this might be more useful when applied to new photos, doesn't seem to be a way to bulk apply keywords to lots of images in one go.
Does keywording rely on a catalogued folder, because if it does, it's not a feature I'll be able to use. PhotoRaw has been cataloguing my folder structure (95k files) for four days, 10 hours a day and is hammering the drive where the photographs are stored, Worst of all it says a folder is 100% catalogued, ten minutes later it's telling me only about 20% is catalogued, so I'm just about to delete the catalogued folders before my hard disk gets destroyed.
Hi Mike.... no, it doesn't not. You can use Keyword AI on any photo. You may need to manually "Scan" the photo (that's been my experience). You can select multiple photos and scan them in a batch.
Nice overview Scott. One thing that you never covered that stood out to me was wildlife. Does it detect birds, bugs, animals, etc.? Thanks.
Hi Alan ... I'm not much of a wildlife photographer (which is to say you could count on one hand the number of animal photos I have). There most certainly is smarts for animals in Photo RAW 2023 (some of ON1's demo videos show "Animal" as a category in Mask AI). How deep that knowledge goes - dog, cat, horse, pig, fox, etc. - I'm not sure.
@@ScottDavenport I'm the complete opposite Scott. 90% wildlife. I was worried that you left it out because it couldn't do it.
Hi Scott. I dont believe that AI picks up things like “spoke” and “rim” - once It detects a bicycle, it probably has a list of component parts that it includes in suggested keywords. Same with “outerwear” deduced from combination of Landscape and Person.
You may be right, Ray. Even so, I thought it very helpful as those were keywords I wouldn’t have thought to add if I were tagging manually.
Can On1 Photo Keyworder populate LR keywords? No one seems to know and ON1 not answering any questions so guess it does not.
Hi Ian… I haven’t tried the new tool. Not something I’m planning to use in my workflow, so not center of my radar to try. Thinking out loud…. Maybe for LR, if the ON1 keyworder makes an XMP file *and* Lightroom can be told to read it. I don’t know if that’s viable in all scenarios… for example, if you already use LR XMP files, will ON1 merge data into it?
I think the Japanese keyword says "Tokyo-to" which is the same thing as "Tokyo Prefecture".
Thanks Nick!
I sure hope it ships in October 2022 and not October 2023. That’ll be a long wait LOL.
Yes, October 2022 :)
@@ScottDavenport I know you cant change the date in the video, but maybe in the description would be useful?
Hi Scott nice like your Keyword AI .I tryed to buy on1Foto Raw 2023 tonight from Germany but I did not Work I what to send the Money to them from my bank did not work SO IT LOOKS LIKE I WILL not get it. Just go a New laptop Asus Zenbook Prp 17 Lachlan the Scott,s Guy From Germany
In my view Scott, this pre-release you ably showcased is really not quite ready for the big-time. It has too many quirks which you clearly identified which deter me from committing to it at this time. I'm looking forward to your in-depth review of the "final" version and reporting on its capabilities and limitations.
And I expect quirks to continue. And for those of us that are more "die hard" keyword adders, I see features like this as bonuses. I'd poked at other AI-powered keyword tools as well ... and they have quirks, too. What is nice is AI Keywords are kept separate so they don't "pollute" your existing keywords. Thanks for watching!
Another tool that could be very hand if you don't or are to lazy to organize your files or folders yourself.
True!