eBay's biggest ioniser module depotted (with schematic)
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- Опубліковано 11 сер 2021
- This high voltage module contains a very traditional, but simple circuit to boost the mains supply voltage up to several thousand volts at low current.
I screwed up. I showed the 220nF capacitor on the PCB photo between the transformer pads. It should be on the two ones to the left.
The resistor I added in experimentaly was 33K 2W.
I also forgot to show a close-up of an unsleeved carbon fibre emitter. It's just the stripped wire and a bundle of carbon fibre strands laid into a brass crimp, which is crimped and sleeved with heat shrink sleeving.
The eBay listing title of the item shown is:-
AC 220V Car Air Purifier Negative Ion Ionizer Anion Generator Airborne Modules
Although designed for 220V (Chinese standard voltage) this unit will work on 120V at much lower output (and much longer life). For 230V to 240V it may be useful to add a 1W 10K to 33K resistor in series to make the life of the internal resistors easier.
If building this into a plastic enclosure to make an ioniser/ionizer I'd recommend adding a couple of 1 megohm 1W/2W resistors in series with either each output lead or just one pair in series with the general output, splitting to all the emitters again after the resistors. That provides an extra layer of safety for anyone touching the emitters.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:- www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of UA-cam's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.
#ElectronicsCreators - Наука та технологія
"Yes, let's be safe.... coz that's something new for this channel"
I find the subtle, dry humour quite amusing.
As Technology Connections would say...
"And by the magic of buying 2 of them.... Here's one I already depotted earlier"
Came here to say this. You beat me to it 😅
and by the magic of buying 2 of them, I have an already depotted one right here
And by the magic of buying 3, he's already got one connected to the Atmoshperic Invigorator.
@@DaedalusYoung But with Clive it's more like
"Through the magic of buying 4 of them, I have one to BLOW UP on a HVAC video"
It's like a cooking show.
I must admit that "being safe" was an unusual twist for this channel. Thank you, Clive, for sharing info about depotting.
Ooh, neat! So it basically puts out little puffs of ions at half the frequency of mains. That's fun!
The capacitor evens it out a bit, but you still hear mains hum from the emitters.
Technically it runs at full mains frequency. If it was running on a full bridge rectifier, it would be double the mains frequency (100Hz).
@@Basement-Science Isn't the thyristor only triggering a pulse through the coil every half cycle? I definitely could be wrong. I did just compare the sound it makes to a 50Hz and 25Hz test tone and it sounds more like 25 to me.
@@BRUXXUS Yes. A sine wave period is made up of 2 half-cycles though. One positive and one negative half-cycle.
This circuit outputs exactly one pulse within both of those, so it runs at 50Hz, not 100Hz or 25Hz.
UA-cam’s finest ioniser channel. Indirectly and directly produced Ozone is the enemy of all things rubber, especially natural or nitrile rubber. However, silicone rubber is unaffected by Ozone. Choose your rubber carefully….
"Choose your rubber carefully" - good advice there, in all sorts of situations...
And remember not to use petroleum jelly on your rubber.
Thank you Big Clive! Just love what you know and share with us!
I've been subscirbed to the channel for a long time. I'm a non -electicial/electronics person, and this has been the most usful video, in terms of what's happening in a circuit at any moment that we have had. This has been such an eye opener for me. I think that once you get to a certain point, this stuff is obvious, but for the beginner, not so much. Great. thank you soooooo much.
It all falls into a place like a jigsaw. One part making sense will allow others to make sense too.
it's all built on little rules strung together ????
Clive gave me a healthy obsession with ionizers and ozone modules! Absolutely fascinated!
220V in a car is getting to be less and less of a ridiculous prospect, with all the electric and hybrid vehicles running around with 300+ volt battery systems.
I wish I could remember the word (yes there is / was a single word) for "misuse of a large word in an attempt to sound smart"
Bravo for having the god-like patience to actually de-pot a little mystery module like this.
You are our hero!
You know what I need in my life. An eight hour video loop of one of your ionizers hissing. For sleep 💤
Just get the real thing.
@@johndododoe1411 no
I missed commenting on your 1 million subscriber mark. Congratulations! You are unique, educational and entertaining. Respect for Isle of Mann!
It's not like i am new to consumer chineseum, yet it still fascinates me, for 5£/€$ to get the circuit board, components, cables with injection plastic terminated ends with carbon fiber, all the cables soldered, the whole thing potted in resin, shipped across the world, someone making the ebay listing and on top of that it even works.. meanwhile i could charge that amount just for typing this comment lol xD
China's economy works in a vastly different way than most other economies. I am not completely sure, but most communist and "communist" regimes (at the very least cuba and east germany), use two different currencies: a convertible one, that can be converted and exchanged for dollars/euro, and a non-convertible one that can only be spent on the domestic market.
Because most labor is paid in non-convertible currency, which is valueless from an outsider point of view but can be used to pay rent and plenty of normal everyday domestically produced stuff, the product can be incredibly cheap. The price of the product only has to reflect the cost of raw materials that have value on the international market, because of the very low value of the currency that the labor was paid out in.
Yeah, and we're all getting screwed though.
They took manufacturing away from the US gave it to Chinese slaves while destroying both countries in the end really.
Opened the link when i just woke up, and it took me a moment to realise that the video is not about deporting the unit.
You did one recently that sounded like a mosquito- that one sounds like a hummingbird!
Years back when I did surface mount rework, learning to use a grounded wrist strap was a pain, largely because I'd gotten used to avoid being grounded when playing with HV gear.
I strapped mine to my ankle due to it always interfering with my hands while working.
Just get a _wireless grounding wrist strap!_ Saves all the hassle of being grounded... doh!
Hummingbird? I was thinking there was an inadvertent release of gas, hence the ionizer.
I love your videos! Love from the USA (Love visiting your beautiful country by the way) I hope I can again one day!
Looks really cool, but dive in now before the price doubles.
This is basically the ionizer channel now
I need to thank you, as this vid helped to save a lovely Amcor Pyramid ioniser from the 90s. I had bought one of these same modules before I found this video which was a bit of luck. I followed your advice and ordered some 1W 10K resistors and then found a 100K resistor was already placed in series with neutral, hidden under some heat shrink! Bah!
I love these ioniser videos.
I LOVE looking at PCB artwork, and even more knowing that you and I could do better than they have done, but the company then had it quickly mass produced without any CE/DFM/PCB/RFI review by peers, let alone by experts...
I love how you draw out the schematics, explain how it works, oh and I love your voice. I've been your fanboi since the beginning broski ❤ keep it up please 🎉
Very cool, love seeing the circuit, have always wondered.
Thank you BC, another inspiring video.
Just bought one of these! I'm just going to use the brushes by connecting them to an ionizer of my own making. Got a bag of 330nF capacitors and am going to follow your schematic. Maybe I'll survive my spring pollen dry eyes yet.
so glad you added in the comment about safety and adding a resistor /etc :)
Awsome stuff! This looks just like the component i imagine in a lil project i have in mind, now i just have to keep looking for the rest of the "answers"!
I love my fridge ozone unit. The stuff really lasts well. Then I wondered, do they use ozone commercially in fridges or in chilled environments?
They do sell units for catering facilities.
I’ve seen them in fridges and BIG hvac systems. But more commonly you’ll see mercury UVC lamps. That’s pretty common here in the USA in industrial HVAC systems, Industrial ice machines, and some commercial chillers. Manitowoc brand in particular, as well as Hoshizaki.
Ozonation of water is somewhat common. In some cities, including the one I live in, the water is ozonated at the wellhead and then chlorinated at the treatment plant. Large scale ozone generators are common in pharmaceutical plants where Water for Injection (WFI) is produced. I'm not a WFI expert but I recall the process being something like: media filters -> reverse osmosis -> ozone injection -> WFI storage tanks.
Does the ozone destroy the rubber gasket on the fridge door?
@@theoldbigmoose - probably, but the limited exposure area means that the gasket tears apart before the ozone really affects it.
That just looks so finger zappingly good!
Hi Clive, As you say Nice one, Have sent 4 one, thanks All the Best Brian 🤗
We like it when there's high voltage in use! The neon lamps I have also give off a bit of ozone.
"I'm nearly the depotted." ~Matt Damon~ 2006 The Departed
I have a lot of trouble understanding your accent (not native, I find there's tons of "sh", but totally on me), yet, it's a pleasure to listen to you, you're so calming
Do you have any plans to look at the COB LED self adhesive lighting strips?
Would like to hear your views on the lightning effect they give and the construction of them.
That little device is a key part of my "DIY Home Precipitron" which seems to work better than expected!
I was also thinking about building an electrostatic precipitator! Do you have any specific design plans?
@@mfbfreak No formal design plans as such! My prototype is made mostly from wood, with the HV emitters screwed to wooden supports in the airstream, upstream of a standard metal mesh rangehood filter (AliExpress do a wide range of these), grounded to the mains neutral line via a 1/2w 1 megohm resistor. Airflow is via a pair of 240v 120mm pc fans. Initial results (the very scientific method of washing the filter in a bowl of water after a few hours use!) suggest this actually works, and The Wife says it helps reduce her seasonal allergy symptoms noticeably. Aliexpress do a 10kV higher power unit specifically designed as a Precipitron powerpack (about $80 Australian), and that's my next step in the project, along with a larger diameter "box fan" to provide the airflow.
That was a very cool sound when you held it up to the mic.
How about the aluminum case Amazon voltage regulators next? The 12-48v dc to 12vdc/10A ones. Would love to see those depoted and torn down. Very sparky when applying power in my experience. Singing” It’s time for the pinkulator, it’s time for the pinkulator.” It’s time for the percolator song.
My fridge ozone units are working great 👍🏻 keeps everything smelling nice 😊
@@Okurka. Seriously??? Green Food??? How’s it doing that??? Ozone shouldn’t turn anything green… that’s weird!!!
Just got a similar 12V module like this, single pair of output leads. I don't smell ozone from it but I do feel a cool stream of air rising from the carbon brushes.
Sounded like an wasp nest full of mildly unhappy wasps. Nice.
Such great content. Awesome!
I've used a similar circuit driving a thyristor to make a electric fence energiser . It used a voltage doubler rather than resistors to charge the capacitor ( almost like a kind of cap dropper current limiting). As the capacitor charged up it would reach a threshold and fire the ( I bit like a light dimmer circuit but slowly about one pulse per second)
Groovy! I just order one from Hong Kong for less than $10 US. I'll do your suggested resistors mod. Thank you, Sir!
What’s the fascination with ionisers? Could you do a video on purpose, safety and actual uses?
For a moment there I thought your were being DEPORTED.
At work we used to have air-ionizing fans blowing onto whatever circuit boards we were working on. Supposedly, ionized air helps prevent static build up. I looked into getting one for home but the typical price was like $500.
I wonder if I can stick one of these behind a small fan an use that for a poor man's ionizing blower?
Hey thanks for sharing, could share something you recommend like Ionizer etc the make the air better inside my room? You taken apart so many things any you could recommend? I struggle bad
Well the photographs and explanations around them reminded me of the ultrasound of my offspring in the womb. I nodded politely as if I was convinced I could make out what I was being told, but in reality, it was white noise in a conical wedge and complete bollox.
Nice and clear Thank you Clive DVD:)
I got one of these in my DIY ozone generator, works really good.
Thank you for the great video, but can you explain why there even exist these ionizers? What benefit they should give me using such one? Why should I care about ozone which is in high concentrations toxic and ions in the air?
That's basically a capacitive discharge ignition circuit, using the coil from the power supply for a cold cathode fluorescent light, instead of the ignition coil.
So can I just mount these in my heating duct to help cleanup the air? 110vac on my side of the pond.
Reminds me of how I designed electronics, back in the day when components were expensive and my allowance (too) low.
I got the 12Vdc unit you showed last time ish, so could that single output be linked lik the 240Volt one as you say they are all common???
Would this thing be nominally safe to set up in an HVAC duct to run when the heat or ac kicked on, or do you think it would have a bit too much of an ozone output?
I just built this unit to run on 120v, so far it's not putting out a smellable amount in a closed room after about 30 minutes.
I think it would be perfect for 240v switched with the blower fan.
On 120v (half strength?) it's probably too weak for a whole house switched with the hvac.
edit: after about an hour it's just smellable in a closed room. Probably the perfect size for switching with the furnace.
That's a cool ioniser. I like how you used the different colours to make it clear how the power flows through the schematic.
And that sound you hear along with the hiss sounds quite funky! :) Is that just the microphone reacting to it? It kind of reminds me of the cool synthesizers of yesteryear. I figure you don't hear that when you put your ear next to it.
There is a strong 50Hz modulation of the flow of ionized air.
Most times I believe I can follow which component is which on your schematics. This time I was left wondering which diode was which.
Still can't hide that Ionizer Enthusiasm Clive. But to be fair, they are very "exciting". ;)
I've never known these types of high voltage circuits to go bad, but 18k is a bit 'rich'. It reminds me of those diy mosquito zapping kits from way back.
What would your opinion be on installing one of these guys in front of an inline furnace filter? I feel that, in theory, the fine mesh of the filter should provide a lot of surface area for the ions to stick to thus giving them a place to go besides the sides of the ducting. Effectively, making the disposable filter better at it's job while keeping the insides of the duct cleaner. What do you think?
The in-line wiring might be a problem, also the filter would have to be changed often for dust build up. It may also concentrate oils from the kitchen.
Interesting item . Guess you build the fixture around around the main bloom of tips. mine seems to move air.Long stainless steel blades.
Reminds me of a very simple Tesla coil esque circuit. Did you work out what the resonance frequency of the capacitor / indictor combo is? You probs find that when ever the gate triggors, the cap / indictor will resonate through the thyristor then back through the diodes. That and a loosely coupled transformer and you can get some serious HV. On a side note have you tried replicating the circuit on a simulator, much like ltspice ect... ?
For future depotting, how about using a Soxhlet extractor? The module would be repeatedly immersed in hot solvent and all the resin would be collected in the bottom flask. No(or minimal) labour required.
That's exactly what I thought! To add to this, apparently you can get a Soxhlet extractor kit for around 40 euros on AliExpress.
It features the Soxhlet apparatus itself, the condenser and a flat bottom flask so you can put it directly over a hotplate.
You'd need to make a sort of cage out of metal wire (or teflon), put the potted part inside, lower the whole thing into the middle part of the Soxhlet and retrieve it once it's depotted.
Additionally, you could try different solvents. I suspect that dichloromethane (methylene chloride) would work really well.
Finally, the solvent might be recycled by simple distillation. You'd just need to buy a receiver flask and a still head or, if you could find it cheap, something like this vertical still head. (www.fishersci.ie/shop/products/quickfit-borosilicate-glass-solvent-still-head-adapter-2/13420439).
@@GiorgioCapocasa Might as well use the cellulose thimbles designed for these extractors. www.aliexpress.com/item/32729345432.html Also available as a glass device, from the same location of course! www.aliexpress.com/i/32732910400.html
I think you'd want to try different solvents first. No point in getting a soxhlet or other apparatus if your solvent doesn't even touch it anyway. All it would really change is saving you from stirring the solvent occasionally.
@@Basement-Science The good thing about a Soxhlet extractor is that as long as the thing to extract is even slightly soluble in the solvent, since the liquid is recycled indefinitely, you'll be able to dissolve all of it, given enough time.
Stirring won't cut it, since once the solvent is saturated with the substance to extract, no further extraction will be possible.
The continuous distillation that happens in the Soxhlet apparatus allows the extract to concentrate in the lower flask (in this case, the potting compounds) and exposes the middle vessel to fresh solvent at every cycle.
@@GiorgioCapocasa Yeah I know it's fundamentally better than stirring, but it doesnt matter if the solubility is insanely low to start with, which I know it usually is for Acetone vs potting compounds.
I've left some small stuff to dissolve in big jars full of solvents for months with no perceivable effect. So I doubt a soxhlet extractor would suddenly make it viable.
A successful depot!
Cheers. Quite interesting. In my A level physics lab we did have a 50KV supply, though I suspect safer, and you only got a bit of a zap off that.
Clive.
Would the high voltage coil from a Taser that you zapped yourself with a few years ago work in the same way?
I was wondering if it did then we could have an ioniser powered by a AA battery.
Yes a Taser circuit could be used as an ionizer, but running it on batteries still requires you to connect it to Earth somewhere. Otherwise it would stop doing anything almost immediately even if it kept running. You need some form of return path for the charges for an ionizer. But for an ozone generator, you dont need that.
I was looking to use similar modules in a homebrew exhaust ozone set up for an indoor grow operation. Would one of these same modules do the job if the leads were mounted in a metal duct, or would it require multiple to be effective? I am using a 4" duck with a 150cfm fan.u
You may be better using a higher output ozone generator for that if it's for smell reasons.
"That provides an extra layer of safety for anyone touching the emitters." - but that doesn't provide a lesson..... An important safety lesson....
Does adding a resistor in series with the neutral change the voltage at the gate of the thyristor when the polarity changes to operate it?
It will affect the current, but that thyristor has a very sensitive gate.
I’ve put a couple 110v ac units in a cupboard space, and used a 5.6k resistor on the hot wire to increase the safety factor of slamming fine wire with mains voltage on it in the cupboard door.
The thought was that in a short circuit condition (or human contact) the current could not exceed roughly 20 mA. Coincidentally, this also dropped to voltage from about 125v to 112v putting the ionizers closer to their operating voltage.
When you stuck the resistor into the Hopi, what was the safety advantage of putting the resistor on the neutral side? Was this just to reduce the risk of coming into contact with bare resistor leads that were live?
The resistor can go in either side. I put it on the neutral side because it was exposed.
Speaking of potted electronics....I've got a boost converter I bought from Temu I need to finish de-potting some day. When it arrived I attempted to test it out, but one of the wires was apparently neglected as it pulled straight out when I touched it. Luckily I just so happened to buy two of them, so one is for fun while the other will be for learning/teaching!
Maybe one day you'll run across the channel I've been working on...just hope I actually have some content if/when you do >_
*As Technology connections would say: and the magic of buying two.*
1:02 BigClive sending himself up now 🤣🤣
what type of resistor do you recommend to use before pluging the cables into electric current ? can you give a value please, and the direction it should go into the ac plug? i just bought 3 of these ion generators, hoping the can last long.
Hey Clive, I've been looking into building a Nixie tube driver, would one of such ioniser circuits work or would the voltage be way off?
Voltage is way too high. Nixies need a couple of hundred volts max. A more conventional inverter circuit will also be able to supply a higher current that Nixies require. Have a look here for info: threeneurons.wordpress.com/nixie-power-supply/
@@IanSlothieRolfe Thanks man!
I got scammed on an ionizer plug-in unit with fake electronics inside, so I bought a 120V unit similar to this and replaced the guts of the scam unit. Great upgrade and no extra resistors because my life isn't exciting enough for safety.
Great video BTW. Thank you.
I find that for cleaning really baked on engine varnish, nitro lacquer thinner is the best (better than acetone), the more stuff it contains the better (MEK, DMF, toluene, xylene,...)
Always depends. There are plenty of things Acetone alone is better for, but depotting stuff is definitely pretty hopeless with any of these common solvents. The compounds used are specifically designed to be chemically very resistant because they often get subjected to more powerful solvents during normal manufacturing.
Where should you place them in your home? On top of a bookshelf or behind the sofa on the floor, should they perhaps be combined with a fan to spread the yummy ions and the exquisite ozone around? One in each room?
As an ioniser, central with cleanable surfaces. As an ozone generator it would depend on the layout of the home.
Sounds like the wings of a bee.
So not a unit to hang above your shower? do the amount of sharp ends make much diffrence to the output. Say 1 spike compared t0 a 100.
Up to a degree the more the better.
Knife looks so sick! I've googled every combination of Kane maker knife jackal I can think of, can't find it though!
Just happened to find it: placedatoms.com/collections/maker-knife-replacement-parts/products/maker-knife
Hope this helps!
@@anthonyc_h Thanks so much! You're a mensch!
What is the Value of the resistor that bigclive added at the end?
33K.
@@bigclivedotcom thanks a million
Can you not de pot resin by leaving it in a pan of boiling water for a while? Seen it done on a few channels or does it depend on the type of resin
Why does it sound like a light saber?
What do you think about the new modules named AC220V TUV/CE Cold Plasma Ion Generator for Food Freshing Refrigerator ?
They're similar to my atmospheric invigorator design:-
ua-cam.com/video/IoN_EYtSuio/v-deo.html
"... I'll do the experimnet right now!" I love it ! :)
Why do the primary and secondary side share a "ground" at the transformer? Could the secondary side of the circuit be isolated/dereferenced from mains?
The electrons have to come from somewhere.
Let's say the coils are isolated. Circuits are synonymous with loops. You still need the right hand loop to be emitting charge carriers to air so where's the rest of the loop? Are you closing the loop by pulling charge carriers directly from the air?
You could try connecting the loop to the ground. It's not a very big current even if it is at high potential. :)
For an ioniser it has to be referenced to the ground to put a charge into the air with respect to ground.
hi Where did you get the maker knife from best regards
Which value should the additional resistor between the ionizer and mains neutral have? It's running at 240V.
I ordered the same thing some time ago, it's still sitting around without an Idea where and how it wants to be finally mounted.
Would be nice to see your implementation if it's ready for prinetine, yet.
I'd suggest trying two extra 18K half watt resistors. One in series with each of the supply wires.
It's emitting negative irons, with a reversely connected HV diode.
In the future, at the robot repair shop. "What's wrong with Grandpa this time?" "Well Look. His hair has a purple glow." "Hmm... He must have got an ionizer upgrade."
#8o]
7000 could be a random 7000g of ozone per hour number.
I got a blue sheetmetal cased dual ceramic plate 230V ozone generator that claims 5000g per hour. So possibly a hint on the output.
you are on 50hz AC I think so not only would running the unit at 120 VAC in the USA lower the output voltage but at 60 HZ the high voltage cap would have less time to charge so that would lower the voltage spike even more. I think about 17% less charge time. Or am I off base on the cap charging circuit ?
I think the values of the first capacitor and resistors chosen are such that the cap has a small time constant so that it charges and discharges quickly.
While you're right that the difference in time between 50 or 60 Hz is about 17%, because you're dealing with exponentials (ie, non-linear) that doesn't translate to 17% difference in charge stored on or voltage across the cap. The charge/discharge curve is levelling off as time increases so the difference in the amount of charge stored (changing AC frequency not voltage) might be more like 9% (for the particular values I chose). I didn't write it down but iirc halving the resistance changed the difference in charge stored to about 3%.
You get to a point (by dropping resistance or capacitance) where, because the time constant is so small that there is no meaningful difference between 50 or 60 Hz because the capacitor charges/discharges so quickly. Obviously you don't want to drop the capacitance too much or the energy stored won't be useful for a task like this.
It might put a lower charge on, but it would do it 20% more often.
@@bigclivedotcom Good point ! I knew I forgot to account for something.
Can you test for us to see if extra resistors are necessary? or at least send one to electroboom
Thanks Clive
"Things have to be done." hahahaha
Cor that was an Ionman Special !!!
Clive, what camera do you use to take photos of the PCBs that comes out so clear and in-focus? Whenever I try to take PCB photos with my cell phone camera, it's always blurry and I can't read the markings on any of the components.
I use an old moto G6 because it is very good for close focus. I made a video about my lighting setup for those pictures fairly recently.
Is it effective for odor? (specifically VOC) I'm also wondering is this produces ozone?
It will produce trace levels of ozone lower than the natural outdoor levels in nature. It may help with odors.
i dont know what the wattage of the unit is but you can build an inverter that steps 12 or even 6 volts up to 220 to power this.
although a 20 or even 40 to 1 step up ratio may have the inverter drawing a couple amps from the battery
be careful with heat around acetone the fumes are not only not good to be breathing in but they could be ignited by heat sources.
The 220V would have to be AC at around 50 to 60Hz.
Natural good mind but what makes up a head - good video and plan.