The non-EPA guide to ozone
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Ozone has always been present in natural outdoor air. It's how nature regulates the presence of mold, viruses, bacteria and VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds) in air, and why enclosed spaces like cupboards and unventilated attics can get quite "musty".
It has a very distinct odour that could be described as a fresh bleach-like smell, and when scientists first identified it they thought its fresh smell was invigorating and healthful. In reality, if you can smell it then there's too much to be breathing continuously.
That's not to say that a brief burst of higher level ozone might have a benefit of killing bacterial infections in lungs. But sustained high levels will cause irritation, and really high concentrations will cause cellular damage just like chlorine would cause skin damage in a swimming pool if used at a very high concentration.
Although ozone occurs outdoors as a natural part of air, it has a very short lifespan due to its active function of oxidising stuff. So nature creates it continuously with various environmental photochemical and electrostatic effects.
Those effects are not normally present in indoor areas, so unless there's a continuous flow of fresh air from outside, the level of ozone in indoor air will gradually deplete to near zero and give a competitive edge to spores, viruses, bacteria and other airborne contaminants.
There are two ways to maintain the ozone content of the air indoors. One is to have open windows or fans giving a continuous fresh supply of active outdoor air, or in situations where a continuous flow of outdoor air is undesirable (like in peak summer and winter) it's viable to create it at a similar level by electronic means. Fortunately this can be done with extremely low power.
Indoor ozone generators have a rather exciting and extreme history, from the fantastic looking units with clusters of neon tubes with capacitive corona discharge between them producing a high level of ozone, to the notorious but technically pleasing Ionic Breeze units with their corona discharge wires and fins.
(Corona discharge refers to the crown-like appearance of electrical plasma. It has NOTHING to do with the similarly named virus.)
High power ozone generators have their uses for deodorising hotel rooms, and helping reduce the smell of smoke in used vehicles and smoke damaged premises. But they are absolutely NOT suitable for use in occupied areas. They are the equivalent of a shock chlorine treatment in a swimming pool.
One of the most common trace level ozone replenishers is probably the classic needlepoint air ioniser. These units apply a high negative voltage at safe low current (microamps) to sharp needles or carbon fibre tufts, which then create an electrostatic charge in the air. That charge causes airborne dust and spores to precipitate out to any grounded surface including floors, walls and ceilings. One unexpected side effect of the ionisation of the air is a tiny plasma glow at the tips of the needles. That creates a continuous trace level of ozone that is nowhere even near the natural outdoor level, but still at a level that makes it useful indoors.
Unfortunately, many companies made ozone generators and then called them ionisers to cash in on their popularity. Many of those use the same needle system, but have an oppositely charged ring in front of the needle. This causes a very high ionic airflow and causes a much stronger plasma discharge on the needles. The glow is often very visible as a series of purple dots in these units. Some operate at a sensible level, but others are a bit fierce in their ozone output.
A recent trend - possibly initiated by the Japanese company Sharp - is to use two emitters, with one at a positive voltage and one at a negative voltage. This results in a high ionic flow that creates a very controlled low level plasma discharge.
Because of the aggressive anti-ozone militants, the manufacturers of these units tend to avoid saying the O-word and instead create heavy marketing about hydroxyl radicals (a molecule consisting of one atom of oxygen and one of hydrogen). In reality there are a wide variety of short-lived active air molecules created.
Japan LOVES it's ionic air purifiers. They're in almost every home, workplace and public building. They have effectively been doing a long term scientific test for decades.
I firmly believe that devices that produce a trickle of ozone and other active air molecules to replenish indoor air to a level of between 1 to 10 parts per billion are essential to maintain indoor air quality.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.co...
I know that Clive has occasionally joked that he looks quite scary and "thuggish" which is one reason he doesn't always show more than his hands, but I find his presentation style extremely approachable and his manner very comforting. Perhaps I've just got a healthy appreciation for beards.
I think it is his voice - very non-intimidating!
i just want to take a minute to appreciate the amount of work and preparation you put into this video. thanks clive! ❤
You need a second channel: "Big Clive Explains It All"
Can't wait to hit that subscribe button!
Very well presented!
Professor Clive to the rescue! With his intellect and good ol' common sense, shatters fake science and shuts down Karens. Gawd Bless!
Excellent.
Now I want to know how the particles are counted.
@@jamesplotkin4674 hi James p, nice to meet you! 😁
@@mudmagnet3249 One at a time with very small chop sticks.
@@brianyoung9014 I thought it was pixies on a pin head ;)
I don't know if you'll read this comment, but I appreciate how you approached this subject. Years ago, I moved my computer shop to a building that has smoke damage from a fire. A customer sold my landlord an "ionizer" unit that I now think was overrated for the size of my shop. I experienced eye irritation, headaches etc from that unit. Since then, I've experienced indoor spaces that have been "overozonated" that presented similar physical effects on me. This made me basically "anti-ozone." My wife recently purchased an air purifier with an "ionizer" feature that I have never used. I am now going to test it and see how it goes. If I get eye irritation or headaches, I'll turn it off again. Thanks again for this video and your channel.
Just leave the space while it’s being treated. Air it out when the treatment is over. It works well.
"It makes your clothes smell fresh and it has been doing it since the dawn of time". John, I thought I asked you to bring those clothes in.
If you look really closely, you can detect the old sweater my mum bought me ages ago out drying on the cosmic microwave background
Good for smokers.
At the dawn of time, the Atmosphere had almost no oxygen, in fact Earth didn't even exist and neither did Oxygen atoms. Dawn of time is very long ago. Clive may refer to the initial creation of humans which scientists put a few hundred millennia ago in tropical landscapes and fundamentalist Christians put on day 6 of creation in the tropical Garden of Eden.
I just wrote what I thought I heard, but perhaps Clive was referring to Dawn Ovtyme as the woman who put the clothes on the washing line.
@@obsculor Just like people remember the bad things way more easily than the good times, as good times don't save you, but knowing when things hurt does.
Why can't we just have BigClive run the UK entirely? It would be so much better with free electronics projects, ozone generators and one moment please :D
Because it would need a constant supply of fizzy wine for him to operate on an acceptable decent level.
@@plenet And he would have to compete with Tom Dickson for "Will it blend?" vs "Will it carbonate?".
I have a feeling if Clive did run the country, the TV licence would be abolished pretty quickly. Then there'd be noone to hide the Jimmy savilles of the company.
And every home would have a spudger.
He's already occupied running the Isle of Mann
I'm not going to get into how this happened but I have way too many cats that I'm caring for. With that comes litter boxes. I have a small ozone generator next to each box on a timer of 20 minutes every 4 hours and they do a great job of taking care of the box aromas. It doesn't bother the cats, so I consider it a win. You are outstanding in explanations. Someday, if we ever meet, I want to buy you a pint. You've earned it.
I have a rechargeable "cat" ozone generator here. It detects the cat at the litter box, and then once it's done it puts out some ozone.
I was thinking of doing the same thing after watching the video, I'll give it a try
@@graceford211 No. Edit: And common sense, smaller body, smaller breathing capacity, say than us humans. And ozone will not stick around the litter box, it dissipates or breaks and bounds with other natural components of the atmosphere. Hope this helps.
Thank you for the well done presentation and including a discussion of safety. Re: the EPA - their motivation was probably to misoperate the equipment in a worst case scenario. If a consumer can possibly mess something up, some consumer will ignore instructions and mess up. Good advice is that concentration of ozone high enough to smell that unmistakable electrical smell is too high for long term exposure. In that case, your nose is giving you good advice.
Except we are already getting too much ozone. We should not increase it voluntarily. For actual scientific review google "Ozone Pollution: A Major Health Hazard Worldwide".
@@user255 Someone didn't watch the video.
@@erikasauer4140 No, the information given in the video is incorrect and dangerous. Example the odor threshold for ozone is measured in lab where the initial level is zero. But in real world the initial level can already be harmful and your olfactory receptors have already damped the signal (IE you don't smell it anymore).
I have actually read several *scientific* reviews about the topic.
@@erikasauer4140 Should have used "Safe and effective" next time. Makes people forget to do any research and just have faith at the speed is science
SO MUCH CONTROVERSY~
I removed all the walls from my house and installed a 20 meter tall Tesla coil in my shower. Winter will be interesting, but at least the ozone is properly balanced. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go sniff organic lettuce in the garage while my lifeforce renormalizes.
In all seriousness though, once a week, I unleash a commercial ozone generator in my house in the morning with the HVAC fan running all day. The ozone generator runs for one hour, and I'm out of the house for 9-10 hours. By the time I get home, the house has no scent. None. It's like an anechoic chamber of smell. Anosmic chamber? Sadly, it's not enough to kill the fly that's been in here for two months, but it does keep my atrocious allergies at bay...
You are hilarious thank you
I work in commercial laundry plant and EVERY car coming in, with dirty textiles from the clients, had to be ozonated with portable ozone generators for at least 15 minutes.
Also, we plan to go to OTEX system, - where ozone is injected right into drum while linen is being washed.
A fly. hmmmmm..... Maybe a UVC light bulb that runs when no people or pets are home.
"Too much ozone is bad for you." Isn't that what "too much" sort of means?
Too much water is bad for you too.
Reminds me of the fantastic Fry & Laurie sketch, with Mr Fry as a doctor….I paraphrase a little “Of course too much is bad for you .. that’s what too much means, that quantity which is excessive” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Too much is enough - M.Twain about whiskey.
@@contemporiser whisky is the exception that proves the rule!
Too much happiness is bad for you....
.....You've heard the expression of people dying due excess laughter !
I absolutely love the Ionic Breeze "air purifiers" for whole room ozone treating. I also have had extremely great results using them for removing odors from used books. Great for smoking odors or musty smells. You just leave the book standing on end with the pages fanned out in front of it for a few hours and the book has no smell.
Before watching this, I had a very negative view of ozone generators due to the EPA, so I was shocked that you would produce this. This is an excellent and very convincing presentation. I only wish you had some detailed consumer guidance to help us select a good and appropriate generator. Showing the components is interesting, but hard to put into practice without tearing apart electronics in a store.
Thank you for all your excellent videos.
Trouble is....the only help you'll likely get, is from ozone generator salesmen.
make your own?
Word is that the hole in the ozon layer above the Island of Man has seriously decreased over the last 12 months.
I closed the ozone hole because I burn easily.
no
Clive could move to New Zealand where the hole is and have that fixed right up
Clive thank you so much for saying hello to my mom yesterday during the live stream. She is in the hospital right now recovering from encephalitis and you saying hello mint a lot to her and me so thanks again your the best
yikes, hope she's out, healthy and happy again soon my man
@@ScumfuckMcDoucheface thank you so much we appreciate it
I find it very impressive and quite refreshing that most all of your content is always very minimally edited. Not full of constant cuts throughout the monologue like MANY others do, even throughout single sentences. Much respect, as always!
As a biochemist, I agree with this message.
I study the effect that reactive oxygen species have on the body. Breathing in microscopic amounts of ozone may contribute to a stimulation of the immune system. As well, breathing in small amounts of ozone wont damage the cells. When you breathe in ozone, it will first attack the phospholipid bilayer that surrounds cells to create oxidized lipid which can polymerize and cause issues with cell rigidity except for the fact that your body has mechanisms for fixing that problem. So in minor amounts, it is not unhealthy, and may even be beneficial.
As they say:
The dose makes the poison.
But over many years, might it not cause exponential microscarring?
It's almost as if we (and all the other aerobic organisms) evolved with trace levels of ozone in the air to both deal with the downsides and to benefit from the upsides... Odd that... 😜
@@Sembazuru sure thing, and I don't dispute that in any way shape or form, I'm just saying, hey, what if, and maybe without it you'd all live to 130 😂
@@phonotical your muscle cells damage themselves as they move, and bend, and twist your body every day. Over the course of your life, does this make you stronger or weaker?
Well, what a large scoop of delight for this video!! First in a LONG time that expresses the need for and the existence of scale into the issue at hand. As you went through, your chemistry levels were actually pretty good in most cases. (Practicing chemist/chemical engineer for 47 years) . For clarity the O3 'reacts' out the things it attaches to not destroys them. Like ethanol would be converted to an aldehyde, then to a carboxylic acid, both of which are going to fall out and get to the floor... so in the end, your results were spot on.
Ozone, much like almost everything, is best dealt with on a scalable fashion... Yes good for 3000 square feet, then crammed into 300 square feet, and as you said, who would have thought!!! Same for chlorine, in small quantities. And for the record, common table salt, if you sprinkle it onto your food is great!!! If you take one cup of common table salt and ingest it, you will be dead in hours. There is that scale thing again.
By the way... EPA is not meant really to be Environmental Protection AGENCY. It is really Environmental Protection Activists. as you suggested I think.
Great thinking going on over there, keep it up, keep it done via video so we can all get a more normal view of reality...
Ozone is something I learnt about in middle school. How we needed it, and how it can beade safely.
Schools then stopped practical experiments, and even joined all science into one block.
And now dumbed down even further.
It's not surprising we have problems now, thanks Clive for keeping the truth going.
its not even that, it's just people, in my high school i remember the physics teacher getting the radiation box out, just a solid lead box with 5 different radio active materials, microscopic amounts that were used to show how geiger counters work and to show radiation levels of different materials. When talking about it around 10 years later with people from school no one remembered it, only one other person, people thought i was making stuff up, not that they were to busy talking with their friends during lessons, many of these now post anti-vax stories over their facebook.
I have 4 ionisers in my house. produce ozone as well.
I have been ozone curious for a long time and picked up knowledge is fits and spurts over the years. This presentation was just EXCELLENT and very much appreciated and had nothing in it that didn't fit with what I previously had learned- but added things I did not know.
There is ONE thing I can add. I revived my interest in ozone with Covid as a way to decontaminate rooms and vehicles - by using a very powerful generator for a half hour and then airing the room out so as to not breathe in levels too strong for my best health.
I also used it to decontaminate objects- like my mail, by placing them in a container with the generator and blasting it for a while and then airing it out. One thing such use requires caution with is any rubber objects. The ozone will absolutely destroy rubber quickly such as the stretchy straps on masks. One blast of ozone and they are toast.
Thanks for the fantastic video.
-- I would be concerned about the blasting of the interior of a vehicle as it may do damage to some of the interior components. At much lower doses- I think no problem.
I used to build ozone water cleaning machines, mostly used for disinfecting and oxidizing iron in the runoff water from greenhouses before it's reused and then filters remove the iron. These were not small machines they could generate I think 240g/hr of ozone for the larger units that would get bubbled through the contact tanks and some had 2 of these generators. Long story short, I've inhaled so much ozone in the years I built and worked on these things from tracking down leaks I probably cut 20 years off my life. It got to the point where I could no longer smell it where other people would nearly pass out walking in the room. I always smelled really fresh though.
Absolutely love your optimism.
"I have 2 feet in the ground already, but I always smelt fresh" 🤣🤣👍🏻
When asked what ozone smells of, I always tell people it smells of "bzzzzzzzt"
🤭👌🙃
I describe it as smelling like a room full of copiers and laser printers. Speaking of which, the HP Laserjet II actually had an ozone filter in it, and it was a replaceable part. Newer laser printers don't seem to have an ozone filter in them. I am not sure why.
@zomgthisisawesomelol It depends on the printer and the application. Laser printers with a duty cycle of 60,000 pages per month are still being made and sold, so there is still a market for high volume laser printers. And I don't think the duty cycle of the LaserJet II is all that high, it is definitely not a 60,000 page per month machine....
@@brianleeper5737 Some new laser printers use extremely high intensity LED, IIRC? It might not be a necessity for them.
@@cheyannei5983 Even the LED printers still need the high voltage corona wire to attract the toner off the drum to the paper. EDIT: It actually charges the drum so the toner will stick to the drum. And the high voltage corona wire is what makes the ozone. EDIT: Seems newer laser printers use a primary charge roller instead of a corona wire and this produces much less ozone.
Blimey Clive, I don't know if anyone else has said this but I don't quite always understand everything you talk about but I do turn on your videos when I want to relax because you're really soothing to listen to and I do follow some of what you say. Overtime this is inspired me to take a old plasma screen television to bits and have a gander at the gubbins, dannae what I was really looking at but it was still really interesting. Now it's all going to scrap. During this process I discovered that this is something I quite enjoy and now I keep an eye out for other things to disassemble or even try to repair.
My late father was an electrical/electronics engineer who had a buisness manufacturing very high voltage test equipment. He taught me a lot about ozone and corona and was a real font of knowledge.
Thanks for this one Clive.
Thanks Clive. Very well researched and presented. I seem to remember in the late 1970's one of the Hifi magazines doing a review of a pair of very futuristic loudspeakers (for the time). They incorporated an electrostatic "tweeter" which actually modulated an ion "flame" to produce very high definition HF frequencies. Without the constraints and limitations of the usual physical cone or ribbon the musical reproduction was of astonishing quality. Unfortunately, the byproduct was rather excessive amounts of ozone which made the reviewing panel feel rather ill. I imagine the levels they were exposed to were ridiculously high. I wonder what our friends at the EPA would make of that 😂
I seen on eBay they sell musical Tesla coils that sound like operates on a similar principle.
Billions of dollars every year going to the EPA for research and they find things out like we shouldn't lock ourselves in a small room with a commercial size ozone generator. I'm sure there's an equally important EPA study somewhere on why we shouldn't drink gasoline or as you guys say "petrol". Great video!
EPA doing amazon reviews: I put 10 pints into this 1 pint glass and it leaked everywhere! Seller wouldnt give a refund. Do not recommend.
Brilliant - truly making “Physics fun” which was told to me at school and only now do I agree with (several decades later), thanks in no little part to Mr Clive
Thank you for another informative video with plentitude of props. In my high school (US) chemistry class (c. 1968) the teacher demonstrated and explained ozone using a small ozone generator (each student got a whiff). He also mentioned used car dealers using ozone to remove odors. The teacher's true story goes, people at the used car dealer's shop, left ozone machine running balls-out in a closed vehicle, in the shop building, over Saturday though Monday. The results were that all the rubber parts and other parts with low tolerance to ozone were deteriorated into looking like over 100 years old, crumbling at a touch.
Natural rubber is very prone to damage by ozone.
After watching the video with the fridge ozone generator i bought two, one for the fridge and one for my apartment . On the lowest setting they are perfect , the food in the fridge stays fresh longer and the one in the apartment keeps it smelling clean but with no smell of ozone . One of the best things i have ever bought
You, sir, are an excellent teacher/explainer. Great video, cheers!
A well done video Clive, I found it very informative.
Even though I've watched most of your other videos featuring ozone generating devices, I think this was needed to provide a bit of ozone general knowledge to your viewers and address some hyperbole flying around.
I'm certainly now thinking about trying out a small device in the fridge.
Good job.
This explains why I love my whole house ventilator fan, it brings in large amounts of outside air.
Mr. Clive. If you were my teacher back in the old days, I'd payed more attention. Your videos are awesome, and the way you explain your topics, are easy to understand. Really enjoy your work 💪🏼
Yep, totally agree. I've been using Sharp Plasmacluster air purifiers for about 10 years now and I honestly believe, because I can personally feel it, that my breathing has improved with it. Without it, my nose gets all stuffy and irritated. Been like that since as long as I can remember with seeing so many doctors and using different nasal sprays. The simple fix was just a Sharp Plasmacluster. I swear by them.
I was going to ditch a scavenged ozone generator for water purification, and now will use it to control mold levels in a storage room, thanks for this thorough explanation.
About ten years ago a friend who was part of a group (photography group i think) asked me if I could build him an ozone generator because they would be having a get-together at an old house that smelled musty. I followed the one on your site with the glass plate with mesh on either side but I built it on a smaller size and used a flyback instead of an NST. And a computer fan to force air past the small glass plates.
Couple of days later he said the smell was entirely gone, though the wallpaper and curtains were bleached as well!😆
It would take a very high amount to bleach fabrics.
@@bigclivedotcom I think that in your site you describe it as "a really violent way to create tons of ozone" plus I was under the impression that more is better at the time😂
I probably went for maximum overkill...
As a parent of small children, I’m acutely aware of the tendency of these regulatory bodies to operate as if everyone has the intelligence of the densest among us. It causes confusion and paranoia to scare everyone into avoiding things that could be dangerous when horrendously misused. If we let them have the rule of the roost, we’d all be securely strapped to the walls of our padded houses.
Sounds familiar to where we’re at 😳 everything is taught to the lowest in society these days. We’re all doomed
Not true, we have very high-tech bouncy bubbles available on the market these days ...
What do I do with my kitchen knives? They might cut me if misused.
@@AndyFletcherX31 The only solution is to stop using them. I'm sure you can acquire all necessary nutrients as a slurry. You will need to buy this nutrient slurry in a paper carton until such time as the local council sees fit to extend the nutrient slurry distribution pipe system to your kitchen.
Lowest Common Denominator
IMHO if you're capable of understanding the warning label that says you shouldn't stick your fingers into the rapidly spinning metal blades that are used to shred trees, and are not capable of making the same determination by inference WITHOUT the bloody warning label we probably don't need you in the gene pool...
I can confirm that when I was in Antarctica with a permanent ozone sensor the concentrations usually were between 5-35ppb.
If it was Antarctica, shouldn't it have been between -5 and -35 ppb?? I don't trust your science with such obvious flaws.
........
@@ScumfuckMcDoucheface lol
@@ScumfuckMcDoucheface what? Next time you'll tell me that Australia exists and isn't made up by Big Globe to mask the truth.
@@ScumfuckMcDoucheface Imagine the explosion that would occur if the two poles were ever to link up!
@@Gameboygenius Big Globe hahahaha
Thanks for the well thought out presentation on ozone. Before watching this I only knew about the natural ozone at higher altitudes where the polar ozone holes are.
Well that was interesting. I associate the smell of ozone with the operation of brushed electric motors. That was a good objective presentation IMHO.
Being a severe asthmatic I did wonder about the safety of indoor generated ozone. Thank you for your video, Clive.
Ozone is extremely irritating to the respiratory system.
Check out a proper air purifier like PureAir. Ozone is used to purify the air and should be done properly to avoid off-gas(Ie. via corona -discharge). Ozone will disintegrate quickly (~20-30s) in air and should be used for oxidizing air. For asthma use device I would suggest looking at a nebulizer for emergency or aroma diffuser for improving clean air quality. Ozone can be used in water for different things with longer effect that's much safer.
As Clive mentioned....low levels of ozone (lower than ambient outside) will actually *help* asthmatics because it will lower the other compounds that actually can cause asthma responses.
I've just found out from Dustin Smith, another OP on here, who's a bio-chemist, that ozone stimulates the immune system. I also have pulmonary sarcoidosis, an auto-immune disease in my lungs. It has already caused lung damage. So now I'm not so sure what to do. 🙁
@@illustriouschin The dose makes the poison.
I went hunting for the info in this video a year or so back. Everything i found lacked nuance or was way too technical. So thanks. I've wondered about this for years!
O-zone is great for all the things you mentioned, but I have this hypothesis that it's also the primary irritant for those with nasal allergies and asthma. I've noticed that on days where O-zone levels are high, i live in the middle of two big cities, are also the days where my congestion is the worst. I've begun using carbon filtration in my bedroom and it's helped out a lot! It could be other pollutants as well that the carbon absorbs or reacts with. Actual data collection and analysis is need to test this though, and all I've done is put some carbon filters in my rooms and never run any of my O-zone generators while I know that I'm going to be home.
I like to listen to people who have a passion and honesty in what they do. I enjoyed watching your video, thank you for filming it!
Thank you, what an amazing explanation. Thank you for taking the time to educate us in such a charming and engaging way.
Thanks Clive, a very well balanced and researched video. I wish the ones that put out trace levels were more readily available, guess I'll just have to watch your videos and make my own. Bought one that puts out way too much ozone but I suppose if I use it sparingly will do the job.
There actually are a couple. Review his videos to see which ones.
Love a bit of ozone! Found to my great joy that the ioniser I bought a while ago is actually also outputting ozone. It's exactly the same as in the clip "Inside a Puremate "ioniser" (it's an ozone generator)". Different brand, though. I opened it and it was exactly the same. Also cleaned mine up a bit. And, yes, found a label that actually said the device generates ozone. Hadn't seen it before. Am now using it now and then in my bathroom during nights. With ventilation blocked and door closed.
Is it a heaven-fresh or other branding?
@@bigclivedotcom It's marked Rubicson and sold in Sweden (to me) by a chain called Kjell & Company.
Spot on Clive. 👍 As everything in our lives, its about balance not ridiculous exaggerations.
About 35 years ago i worked for a company who owned the brand name Coast-Air. One of their main products was a recirculating fan unit with a copious amount of activated carbon, a 254nm germicidal lamp and a 180nm Ozone lamp. The O3 produced was miniscule but enough to reduce odours.
A number of London hospitals used these units to minimise odour in bed/ mattress stores. The units were effective and highly thought of continuing to be sold for over 20 years.
This is the most informative vid I have seen on Ozone. I have always been told and believed the demonizing of Ozone. THANK you for clearing this up with science and sense.
Sr CLIVE GRACIAS , por esa presentación, es muy educativa para muchos que frecuentan tu canal , muy bien explicado... espero mas presentaciones interesantes en tu canal una vez mas gracias por su gran aporte.
Eres bienvenido
When you mentioned that ionizers make everything around them dusty it reminded me that one of the best electrostatic air cleaners ever made was the back of a TV's CRT. In the time before flat screens the insides of TV sets and anything near the backs of them would end up covered with dust, sometimes in surprisingly thick layers if they hadn't been opened for several years.
I wonder if they also contributed to ozone in the air in any way...
hm,, yeah, i've seen some really caked up tv innards over the years 😉
Great video! My work as a chemist was very ozone-adjacent right into the start of the pandemic, but we were interested in how it can be applied in water. There's honestly a lot to say about such a weird little boomerang molecule but all in all, I'm not going to soil myself over perfectly normal outdoor ambient levels.
The more important question after watching this video is: How to get one of these bristle-based ozone generators, or how to build one oneself, no matter what it has to be cheap. Also, what are the right usage instructions, how to notice whether the device one's got is any good, how many square (or more precisely cubic) meters of air can it serve, what is too little, what is too much, and so on...
That alone is a huge subject. But here's a sneaky link to an upcoming video:-
ua-cam.com/video/ERTaantiY6c/v-deo.html
@@bigclivedotcom Whoop whoop ...... a "free" bonus video! Today is a good day! ;o)
Many years ago I had an ozone generator. It came with a small testing device which was a circuit board with a light bulb an a few other components. The idea was, you would hold the testing device in front of the generator and the light would flicker on and off, apparently indicating that ozone was being generated.
@@ThumpertTheFascistCottontail Back in the 70's I bought a kit from Maplins! I changed the output to the sleeve of a short piece of co-ax with the bare braid 1/4" outside the case. I seem to remember they supplied a Neon indicator lamp you could spread the legs and holding one leg wave the Neon in front of the emitter! ...... Not only did it glow, it indicated if you had wired the diodes in the correct direction!
Buy a photocopier.
Just ordered my first ozone generator after watching this. Thanks!
Thanks for giving us your take on Ozone Clive.
I had been wondering why you were such a fan, and now I know, and as a result, I'll be looking around for a suitably sized unit for my house.
Thanks, and keep up the good work
An ozone generator is very good for removing the smell of er... tomatoes, if you're growing "tomatoes" at home using hydroponics.
I heard green tomatoes are good. =)
@@jong2359 I've tried various strains of "tomatoes". It's great to grow them at home, as you know exactly what you're getting.😁
WHY would you ever grow tomatoes INDOORS? It's not gonna taste good!
@@atmel9077 You don't eat tomatoes, homie.
At least there;s no pests to deal with.
So, the O Zone isn’t like the G Spot for big techie Scottish Bears? You learn something new every day (if you’re lucky)!
EPA: We should also ban bug spray because I locked myself in my bathroom and sprayed out a full can of Raid and it made me sick.
You should only spray the full can if you have a 3000 square foot bathroom.
Or because a competitor of Raid hooked us up
Soon the only thing the EPA will let us use against bugs will be a shoe.
Millions die from malaria.
DDT is safe and effective when used in the proper dose.
The US government used to blech huge clouds of it out from trucks at does high enough to kill some birds.
Rather than you know, stop doing that, they pushed for a world wide ban.
Classic government.
Create a problem, then create a solution that doesn't solve the problem.
www.thedailybeast.com/how-rachel-carson-cost-millions-of-people-their-lives
Except it wasn’t a bottle, but an insecticide spraying device which box just said “magic insect remover”, without mention to the possible toxicity or proper instructions on how to use it safely. The problem isn’t the generators, it’s the marketing.
Very well explained for the people that don't understand.
Well presented. I get sinus infections at the change of winter and summer or more appropriately, I attribute it to the change of heat to A/C or vice versus. I've greatly decreased them from using an ozone generator on my A/C and heating units before the switch. I leave the house and open the windows while it's running and never had any issues. I also do not put it on high and set the run time for a short period. Nasal rinses seemed to have helped keep things in check too as I cannot control how clean other place's systems are. For a bonus, my place always smells nice after!
It would be equal parts horrible and fascinating if ozone oxidized wee babies. The first time you take your wee baby outside it just... vanishes.
I'll maybe try that in a video.
@@bigclivedotcom Rusty baby, with fire, oh dear that's no good.
@@Kinkajou1015 Going to need the explosion-containment pie dish for that one.
There is a lot of ozone inside in some cities so it would mean that babies would just rust as soon as they were born, they would have to be kept in specials sealed rooms or people would have to travel to specific locations where there is low oxygen levels to give birth.
@@falconJB its evident that there is a correlation with high PM 2.5 and PM 10 with other air contaminants, like ozone. Its possible no one bothered to track it down, or the prof that did retired long ago. Is really EPA using journal articles and research done in the 90ies for ozone exposure in animal models?
Great video by the way - as always!
O3 is useful in the correct doses, but maybe not in the hands of Joe public. I've read stories of people (mainly Americans) ruining their entire household furnishings after using too much ozone or UVC to "purify the air". Plastic items can become brittle when the plasticiser starts weeping out, and foam can turn to powder. Even more worrying are the ozone generators being sold on ebay as "oxygen concentrators/purifiers"!
I bought a 90's ionizer/ozone generator just last week out of curiosity and always wondered about how safe they are. Fortunately it does have a High-Low switch so i'll just leave it on low and see how things go
Dana, you probably want to check how much Ozone is generated when on low level and what concentration is achieve for the space you live in.
If you can smell it, it's too much, also, ventilation is importanter.... (Joke)
@@wollinger I don't even own such a generator, and I can already not smell ozone. Mine must be working properly.
Great explanation
Thanks, watched it from start to finish
Would've been nice to get links in the description to the good units that don't produce too much ozone
Thanks for that video Clive it was great. Im the guy that asked why you do so many videos on ozone generators. My only extremely limited knowledge of ozone was from years ago when I read up about industrial electric motor ventilation to prevent long term ozone damage to anything in the room, including any humans who found it a convenient place to regularly hide from the boss.
24:24 - "Just hisses in the background." Reminds me of the Former Mrs. Brown.
The overall tone could be summarized as "substances taken in moderation are ok, but excess are toxic", and that works for a lot of products and chemicals, including substances like dihydrogen monoxide.
As for the EPA, you need to look at their target audience. Buying the most powerful unit in the store and sticking it in a 10x smaller room is exactly what the average American will do upfront, so in that regard it is a _plausible_ behavior to study. As for the results, they are biased towards what the study promised they would deliver in order to get their grant in the first place, and the grants often come from conservative sponsors who have little incentive in challenging a status quo favorable to them. And also "someone please think of the children!"-ish is a severe issue for all sides.
What I would have loved to hear is more the British and EU equivalent of the EPA... how do they justify these not being more common in Europe? Because they aren't, for mostly the same reasons afaik.
In both cases I think the root issue is consumer education. Misinformation reigns where there is a lack of education.
I prefer Hydrogen hydroxide as it's a better description of the alleged molecule. H-OH
Except that perhaps it would be better if those people DID pack their rooms with toxic substances. Preferably before breeding. I have one of those 'up to X' area ones, but it doesn't even have a label. I used it in a small room. Closet, set to run for an hour, then taped the gaps around the door. And left it closed for two days.
For a car - stick in the car, charger on the battery, in accessory position to run the fans on recirculate. Run for 30 minutes. Wait an hour or two. Open all the windows, and drive it around with the windows down for the next couple of days. No problems.
The problem is that generally speaking outdoor air contains already too much ozone and already causes health problems. He really is giving dangerous misinformation here. We absolutely should *not* increase ozone in air. For *scientific* review google "Ozone Pollution: A Major Health Hazard Worldwide".
@@user255 - Yet, as Clive's already said, it's VERY difficult to accurately measure ozone, so using blanking statements like "There's already too much ozone" is like saying "There's too much water in our food." You can't really measure where the "right amount" might be.
If you think that outdoor air has too much ozone, you need to release more CFC's. They're nice and heavy, and they stay near the ground. They _obviously_ work well to destroy ozone, which is why we still have smog problems in the cities that release the largest amounts.
@@tbelding It's not really that difficult to measure ozone. We have very controlled animal studies, which back up the conclusions made in the epidemiological studies. It really is clear, ozone exposure is harmful.
CFC's does not directly destroy ozone. UV breaks them down and then the released chlorine mix into air and eventually small part of it reaches to the ozone layer (where it is very strong catalyst to breakdown ozone). Atmosphere is not perfectly still and gases blend together, thus some part of even much denser gases (in pure form), than air goes up very high.
Releasing CFC's would only make things worse for our health.
The video segment at 21:45 is so important that it should be shown to every school child in the world. Thanks for posting it.
You are very en-lightening Mr Mitchell...thank you Sir
Are there any decent, reasonably priced ozone generators that you would recommend?
I can't really recommend any specific unit yet.
NASA was outputting great documents, going back when they were still NACA. The UA-cam channel "Greg's Airplanes & Automobiles", refers to NACA documents, going back to the 1920s.
We were not in space, yet, i think.
for the 1% other gases, argon is a notable one because it’s a common decay product from the potassium that makes bananas a little radioactive
Argon is 0.9% of the 1% that isn't oxygen or nitrogen.
Don’t mention radiation! You will make the EPA twitch with science stuff!
Neat video. I am binging on big Clive right now, I was just diagnosed with kidney cancer and am really worried about my immediate future. Big Clive has a tendency of relaxing me, so thanks for the videos.
Thanks Clive, we love your videos.
We use a 125w memory vapor lamp but carefully break the outside shield. It produces large amounts of ozone as well as UVC light to sanitise our lab.
We run it for about 45mins at night but lock the door to prevent anyone going in.
It produces large amounts of ozone.
Really, how long will it run like that, indefinitely?
Just saying someone putting a generator rated for 3000 sq foot areas in a room that's 350 sq foot was already a red flag
What's sad is that studies like that are used to justify all kinds of things, and people parrot it because "trust the science" or "trust the experts" or because it fits their implicit biases and reinforces a point they're trying to make...
@@nobody8717 it's why I don't like studies based around video game violence and shit like that
The EPA… I get the feeling that the character of Walter Peck in Ghostbusters was closer to the mark than we knew.
Rooms are 3-dimensional, so measurements should be in cubic feet! The concentration of O3 in those rooms would depend on the height of the ceiling!
That was the test of the study though, people frequently miss use things so what happens when they do? The study didn't say it was looking at the effects of using it under recommended conditions, it was basically looking at what happens when you buy one of these whole house ones, put it in your bedroom and shut the door at night, its not the recommended use but it is a likely scenario. And the study did not find that ozone generators should never be used it found that this use could cause adverse health reactions.
Hi Clive, another great stream and topic!
But one question you avoided to answer:
Can ozone be SodaStream'ed?
And how does it taste after?
Investigate!!
"sextillion".... why did that sound like there is a soft, seducing saxophone playing in the background, while candles are lit on a dinner table with plates for 2 and a big bottle of booze? XD
Had to do it: ua-cam.com/video/HCKY1-fSJcg/v-deo.html
Really solid ozone info condensed into one video, thanks for doing that! I've seen one of those UV sanitation drone robots in action at a local Walmart store when COVID was at its peak, I'm pretty sure that it just used high intensity UV light to kill the germs and viruses because I didn't smell any ozone at all. It slowly rolled down the grocery aisles and shined this crazy bright light at a narrow section of shelving as it rolled on and it stops moving and turns off the lamp whenever it detects a human nearby. That's about the coolest thing I've ever seen in a Walmart store.
omg a friend of mine back in he 90s, his mom ran some "thunderstorm in a box" device, their house reeked of ozone so strongly i couldn't stand being in their house
I had a similar friend with a similar mom that ran multiple box's in the basement... it was almost painful to breathe down there after an hour or so. Of course, she made her kid sleep down there.
yeah it was like they thought, *_"MOAR iz BeTTeR"_* - but there's also such thing as too much :/
Ofc the Japanese use ozone generators, a lot of them have to deal with living in small apartments.
Hotels rooms often have "air filtering" machines, and those, I've noticed, often have a "Ion" button... which, no doubt about it, must produce some ozone too. They also use heavy duty ozone generators to clean up smell from rooms if needed.
Source: my gf worked in a hotel in Tokyo for 4 years.
Yeah but the Japanese have toilets that talk to you. They're not the best example of "what's a reasonable amount of electronics in the home?"
@@greenaum Well, I have lived for 4 months in Japan, and to be completely honest, the toilets are one of the best things there. The day I'll buy a house, you bet I'll have a fucking 5k$ Toto washlet installed in it.
They're freaking comfortable, and 10 times more hygienic than regular toilets and wiping yourself with dry paper. And since you get washed by water, you even save trees by using much less paper (just enough to dry your butt..)
@@Hexalyse Yep I agree bidets are a good thing, but they don't have to ask how's your day been, and if you're warm enough!
My mate travelled in the East a lot, where they have the "bum gun" hoses in toilets. He points out, if you got shit on your arm, say, you wouldn't just wipe it off dry.
You can always stick a bit of soap and water on bog roll to improvise, it's still a bum wash, nice clean ringpiece is a hallmark of civilisation. If I had 5 grand I might buy a Washlet, and the Japanese lessons I'd need to understand it, then again it might be funnier just to let it parrot away as it swallows my dung like Veronica Moser cheating on a diet. If I had a bidet I'd definitely use it.
Still though, if I said "which country is a bit over-prone to fads" you'd think of Japan. Or I would, anyway.
@@greenaum The washlets I had the pleasure to try in Japan were not talking. The very best ones I got just had temperature and pressure and position control for the water jet from a remote controller (instead of being next to the seat itself, it's usually on a wall on the side, so it's more easily reachable). And the heated seat is probably the best comfort addition. In winter, not having to seat on a cold toilet, is the best thing ever! It makes pooping even more relaxing xD
I can't believe I'm having a discussion about pooping comfort in UA-cam comments!
And yeah, they have some (a lot) of over-engineered stuff. Well, at least they really try to make life as easy and comfortable as possible, and really succeed at it. But yeah, sometimes, some things seem overkill, or maybe even a bit technically bullshitty (if it makes sense).
This was brilliant. Since you started talking about ozone I have been opening windows to ventilate my house more often.
Superbly informative as usual THANKS
but, which one do you recommend to have at home, that can run 24/7 from the outlet?
Very good question !
I wondered the same, I also wondered if I could make one (or several) by buying a piece of carbon fiber cloth (or so) .. and make something similar to the one he showed several times… (14:36) would be a nice present to friends and family… 😊
I'll be continuing to test units in my videos.
I found some nice ones from Amazon I use in the house under the brand "Hepaboy." They have a few options for timers, so they can just run all the time without overwhelming the air. Been pretty good so far; had them over a year, now.
Got one off eBay, always a source of amusement. It looks a bit like one of those air freshener plug-in things except it's both an ionizer and ozone generator. It was about $16USD and the same one is on AliExpress as well. It's supposedly rated for 120 grams an hour which is a suitable amount for my home. There's a tiny computer fan inside to blow on the guts for cooling and to push out the ozone. It has a couple timed cycle modes and a continuous mode, and one for the ionizer. The problem is, it doesn't actually work that well. To make the ozone, they are using a wire coil inside a glass tube with another coil wound around the tube on the outside. It makes ozone on the inside of the tube so it has to sort of leak out the open end. Meanwhile the outside coil oxidizes the heck out of itself and the ozone output drops and drops until it stops making ozone at all. Even after cleaning, and you're not supposed to have to clean it at all, it still doesn't always resume working. It works when it wants to. I'm disappointed. Was hoping this was a good enough, cheap enough product to put a few of them in my home and just forget about them.
So.. is that what the strange, almost alluring smell behind the TV is? I always wondered. Maybe not with today's flatscreens, but definitely the old CRTs.
good description =)
Start sniffing photocopiers and laser printers.....
Yep! I used to have a TV with curved CRT that would charge up the front of the glass something fierce, to the point where it would make the hairs stand up on my forearm and make tons of tiny sparks when I ran my hand near it. Doing so made a fair bit of ozone!
Yes sometimes the rubber EHT cup on the anode of the CRT would perish or fold-over, then you'd get a slight corona discharge to the aquadag.
@@Oldgamingfart Acheson Colloids trademark there, Mate - I've not heard Aquadag mentioned for a VERY long time!
Video quality is so amazing after watching hours and hours of streaming
And the sound quality is superb.
Fibre optic is due for installation later this year, so that may increase streaming resolution.
Very interesting. This was going a *completely* different way than what I was expecting.
Very well done video! Extremely well researched and presented. I particularly like your voice and style of presentation!
Is there any currently available product that gets the BC seal of approval for emitting low levels of ozone indoors ?
There actually are a couple. Review his videos to see which ones.
@@TopEndSpoonie those that emit only a tiny amount and are actually available is not clear.
I'll maybe do a comparison between units in the future.
@@bigclivedotcom Yes please, and some clear recommendations!
@@schnuuuu Recommendations of unbranded "Chinese" products can be dicey, since the designs and quality - and even source - often change without notice.
Sadly, this is even bleeding into branded "Western" products. Certain PC components such as SSDs have received particular attention for this in recent months.
I guess the 'safe ozone levels' thing is the same as the linear no-threshold vs radiation hormesis models for ionizing radiation.
Yes, I too science and maths
Back in a previous life I serviced photocopiers. The odd thing was that the owners manual for some machines said that the carbon ozone filters *MUST* be replaced at every service to prevent ozone levels exceeding the unstated safety limit. But other machines from the same manufacturer with essentially the same innards didn't even mention it and didn't have ozone filters.
I just took them out when they got clogged with crap and never replaced them. I don't think I killed any customers. Not even the ones who deserved it.
Was staying at a hotel here in America that allowed smoking in some of the rooms. I seen several ozone generators on the carts of the cleaning employees. This is probably why they can clean the smells out of the rooms per guest. The room I stayed in had no cigarette smells.
I stayed at a hotel in Savannah that the light in the ceiling was this wierd fixture that had two of the U-tube shaped bulbs. I saw one wasn't coming on with my room key in the holder. Closer inspection revealed it is a UVC bulb. It is turned on by House Cleaning and requires a special card, the room door closed/locked, then goes on a timer. I thought it was a decent set up.
The integrated room sanitising is a very interesting approach. I've not heard of that in a hotel before.
as always, very informative and well presented, thank you
The NASA information sites are absolutely spot on for a fantastic amount of subjects - a great resource!
Another interesting video, thank you!
Useless fact about NASA....... they use the American version of the Canberra bombers (highly modified) to do their high level atmosphere testing.... WB57s.
There was the time a guy got hit by lightning. He smelled funny after.
With his nose, or otherwise?
please could you please research the japanese home units more by doing some deconstuctions and analaysis videos? id love to know how they magange thier implementations in homes like do they have different rated units for different sized rooms and such :)
I took an older one completely apart. Search my videos for the word japanese.
3:57 lol I wouldn't exactly consider it "unfortunate" that lightning, rainfall, and harsh sunlight aren't things I regularly experience in _my_ home.
Excellent video, Clive. Thank you for "clearing the air" pun intended. There is a caution from Philips at this time concerning a recall for the friability of a foam insulating material that is exacerbated by the use of ozone cleaning systems. It's probably (as you point out) the result of excessive concentrations being utilized.
Excellent video. I love how you explain things work!!
Oh really? Things can be dangerous if you use them in ways they were not intended for? Who would have thought... 😅️
Lots of things can be uses in ways other than they where intended and be perfectly safe, you don't have to do what the company the made the thing tells you to do as long as you understand the effects.
I live in an area with a very high amount of ozone resulting from pollution, so I never really considered using ozone generators except maybe in a refrigerator. However, residential buildings in my area are sealed pretty well from the outside air, and opening windows is often not at option because the lowest temps of the *night* in the summer do not dip below 30 deg C. This is good info though.
I think these could help when people complain about indoor air being 'stale' or 'stuffy.'
Trace levels are good, just like mother nature intended (or somesuch).