A Real Conversation About Race and the Church
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2016
- The recent events in Baton Rouge, St. Paul and Dallas have resurfaced a history of hurt and division in our nation and caused every single one of us to consider the state of race relations in America. It is easy to be divided when it seems as though no one is listening.
So how should we respond? Honestly, we don’t know.
What we do know is that the church is called to be a place and a people of healing, community and hope.
It’s not easy to come up with one response to the events that have taken place in America over the last week, and while it may not be our place to provide a solution, we can provide a space for a conversation.
On Sunday, July 17, 2016 Pastor Matt was joined by a diverse panel of pastors and law enforcement leaders for a real, public conversation about race and the church.
I thank God for Pastor Matt Brown for organizing such diverse panel session.
This is was a great conversation the Church, need to deal with the Race & Reconciliation, not our Politicians.
Now more than ever we need white Christians to speak up #justiceforGeorgeFloyd
This is what our country needs. More talks like this, more conversations, more love towards one another.
Uh… no. We need action and policies, not more talk!
@@shelleyhobson2356 Yes Shelley. haha! For sure. But both as as well. Words with out action is just rambling. However Proverbs 18:21 and James 3:4 talk about how words are powerful. Because it shows the heart and it helps with direction. But yes, there are a LOT of people who are just TALKING and ZERO action! I pray the church is not like this however we tend to follow suit.
The most authentic I have witnessed. I have been marching with BLM Christian led soldiers. The white allies of all back grounds of life have been supportive. There have been transgenders and homosexuals who are committed more than pew warmers. Being able to share the sincere love of God with them without judging them have been amazing, They are broken humans just like we all are broken.
If we get it in our mind that is only one race and that is the human race that would be a good beginning to preach that in your churches
Greatful for being able to be a part of this from all the way across the country, (Louisiana) and months later . Thank you for sharing and allow others to be apart of the conversation!!!!
Thanks for being here Angel!
Pastor Matt, you give me so much hope.
Pastor Matt, thank you for having these talks. It not only shows how brave you are, but also how much you care and love for the African American community, and want us Christians to build a bridge between both whites, and blacks.
Also I'm really happy to see these logical African American pastors, church leaders, saying things like, "I believe that Black Lives Matter, but I disagree with alot of the actions/words that come from some leaders/supporters of Black Lives Matter." Thank you. While identity driven talking heads/politicians simply want to start conflict to get donations/votes, you as loving pastors want to see African Americans return to what Jesus Christ taught us. And for whites not to be driven by guilt but my Jesus love to build a bridge. And in return to African Americans to build a bridge too. Then we can start compassionate dialogues, not angry, hateful or violent words/actions. Thank you pastors, for these loving words of kindness, and reason you gave to us!
@GalaxyEspeon "you as loving pastors want to see African Americans return to what Jesus Christ taught us." Whites should also return to what Jesus Christ taught us." Jesus was very outspoken against the Pharisees because of the heavy burdens they laid on others while making things light for themselves.
No such bridge will be built between blacks and whites because blacks and whites weren't create to be together.
@@carbonmelaninwellness2145 Go back to 4Chan!
@@SoniaSephia
It wasn't possible for 400 years, so it's not going to happen now. Right thinking 'blacks'/'African Americans' don't wish to build no bridge with their natural and perpetual enemy(Th Caucasian).
@@SoniaSephia
Along with these 'black' pastors, I'm sure you also think that Botham Jean's brother is logical too, that will never do anything good for them for 'blacks/African Americans. Them loving a loveless race isn't doing anything good for their race.
Carla Linton. Being Christians means that we must have love for one another as Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus. And stop judging each other by skin color and accept one another as human beings.
This is a worldly approach in an attempt to bring ethnicities together. Most professing Christians have never experienced the prerequisite of what it means to be a Christian/ Disciple, let alone, having the wisdom of what it takes to build a multicultural place of worship. One must be BORN AGAIN, according to John 3:3, enabling the power of the Holy Spirit and his wisdom to guide him in the ways of Christ Yeshua. What you are witnessing is man's effort to be a place of worship on earth, as it is in heaven, without the Power and influence of the Holy Spirit. Simply apalled at the one brother's statement..."if Starbucks can formulate how to bring all ethnicities together, why then can't the church"...Really? Is he implying that we need the formula that the world uses, in order to have a multicultural Church? Why would a Disciple of Christ compare a worldly business with a Holy Place of Worship? I'll tell you why. 90 percent of American religious institutions are worldly, having been built by man. If built by man and not the Lord, you would have to submit to worldly practices, in order to sustain it. The Lord of Host says, many False Prophets have gone out in my name, that I did not send.
(1 John 4:1).
People this gathering is a nice gesture at best. Unfortunately, man's efforts are dung! Only the Holy Spirit of Yahweh can build a multicultural church. THE PROBLEM WITH RACISM IN THE CHURCH, IS THE RESULT OF THE SAME PROBLEM THAT EXIST IN THE WORLD...IT'S GROTESQUE SIN!!!! This panel didn't once mention the Holy Spirit's Power, Wisdom and Guidance...go figure!
Hey bro, the Hoky Spirit as it relates to repentance is taught at 1 hour 14 minutes.
...and the comparison made between christian churches and starbuck is not to imply that the church has to borrow tactics from worldly institutions but that the power in churches is mightier than any system in the world - Thus christian churches should be doing a better job at bringing people together than any other system. I believe the pastor wanted to give christians more confidence to tackle the race challenge, because 'weaker' influences of the world have done a fairly impressive job at it. I am sure we all agree that the Holy Spirit influence is critical, but the Spirit does not force its influence on disciples - hence the persuasive discussion on the subject to make christians aware of the divine mandate of co-existence with other races especially those who embrace the principles of God's kingdom.
This was very well done! Eph. 6:12 tells us who our battle is against.
Amen
This is so useful! Thank you and God bless you guys
Taking a trip to Florida with our three little guys, we attended the Sunday Service at a “black church”….(a friends church). As soon as we were seated….my four year old said to me….”Mom, where did all the white people go”?
I just looked straight ahead, with my finger over my lips, signalling that he should do the same. How could I explain to him about “the black /white church”)
See, we live in a predominantly white City, we were the only black family at the Church where we worshipped, and as the family grew we had to have “the discussion” continually……May God help us!!
Hi friend, we're praying for you! It's such a prevalent conversation in today's culture that the Lord wants to help us through. Praying for grace and blessings as you continue to have those conversations with your kids!
Thank you. Then you shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free. John 8:32
And one final thing: If you know who you are in Christ, you will understand that you are inferior to NO ONE and would have the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit to challenge, speak truth boldly and tactfully in the face of people who've been socially engineered to believe at varying levels, consciously or subconsciously, that they are better, smarter, or superior than you, and who don't even see you as human historically.
god doesnt exist.
SOOO GGGOOOOOOOOOODDDDDD!!!!!
16:02-18:45 Jonathan Bilima offered a profound thought: why is Starbucks better at bringing different ethnicities together than my church? so I ...dialed down my identity... dialed down my RIGHTS so that I could better understand...(others). Also, 'where there is ignorance there is room for racism' (prejudice? bigotry?) Note: emphasis added, not a perfect quote. Food for thought for me.
Awesome presentation from Pastor Jonathan Bilima.
Great service of understanding
58:50 - the “mandate of the Gospel” is NOT to “go get everybody who doesn’t look like you,” it is to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all nations. News flash: there are people in each nation that look like Americans...
Sheesh; where do these guys come up with these interpretations?
Awesome panel.
I loved it!
Carla Linton. We as God's Children need to repent and get our lives right With The Good Lord Jesus Christ and stop being racist and hateful toward each other and love one another like The Word Of God says to do. Because one thing about it. We can not enter into God's Heavenly Kingdom With Racial Hatred and Racial Predjudice in our hearts. So we need to get right With The Good Lord Jesus Christ and stop being racist and hateful toward each other and love one another like The Word Of God says to do In The Holy Bible.
Bold guy with the white t shirt. You are talking sense. God bless you
The question is will you even get to heaven if you can't accept the creation that God created. A racist in heaven is like an oxymoron. We need to teach people that God is multicultural and that loving your neighbor is a commandment not a suggestion.
Sooooo powerful🙎🙎🙎🙎🙎🙎🙎🙎🙎.This is the CHURCH.
this is not the Church....one must be BORN AGAIN, according to John 3:3, in order for it to be the "CHURCH".
The Lord told me the problem with us humans is SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS ie "I'm glad im not like those people."
I'm trying to pencil out what nationality have to do with loving someone and how can I hate someone because of how God created them and if you're in the church and hate a person because of there nationality the love of God is not in you and if you hate your brother you hate God so racism is really a sin we need to repent
Where are the women on this panel? It is very important to receive some perspectives from women in Christ also.
Robert McClelland RIGHT?? In my church it is often the women who are bringing MANY of the core issues of privilege and institutional oppression because they are receiving it on the basis of sex (for female POC) AND race. Where the heck were the women of color?
Would you say the same question if the panel was all female.
Would you be asking where's a males perspective?
Norman Hooper: Yes! We are Sisters and Brothers in Christ Jesus!
I feel like this as a individual trying to be Christ like this should be self-explanatory.
Response to @6:00
"We don't separate our color from our religion. The white man doesn't. THe white man never has separated Christianity from white, nor has he separated the white man from Christianity. When you hear the white man bragging, "I'm a Christian," he's bragging about being a white man." -Malcolm X
Nkashama Sankofa:
What you wrote is so very true.
I know former talk show host Tony brown use to say there is really no such thing as race but different cultures.
A swallowing as a minority whom grows in an increase however is swallowed in a moment of change or transition. I wanna know?! -joe tolerence
-Cali
Formality of the church and the alignment of service and behaviors that are rare to be addressed through a church forum. during a decision to be involved to organise a chance for change in your church body and community. being a Christian has had a depth (as GOD sent his son) and it may not sometimes be lead to get reached.
- Higher, going up yonder💒
Lay down my burdens
1:06:27 So well said my brother.
The black white issue hmmm? Depending whether blacks believe they are the descendants of the Hebrew Israelites or Yehuda, that were expelled from their homeland; Israel by God. Then the false Jew moved in and stole their identity.
The original Judite refuse as they do today change their life and return to their first love and due to continued disobedience we were cursed. God finally got tired of his chosen people returning to their sins. I believe( could be wrong here) The book of Kings is filled with disobedience, disregard for the land, themselves, worshiping other idols, and so on, King dies, disobedience begins, people cry for a King! God gives them one, something happens and it’s just a perpetual cycle of disobedience.
Finally I think God tires of them and they need a lesson; a long painful lesson. The book of Deuteronomy explains what will happen if they follow Gods words or what will happen if they don’t, annnnd they didn’t. So what happens: Deuteronomy 28 happens and it is still happening! We were warned! I don’t think anything will really change until the 400 years are lifted and Gods chosen return to their first love.
We are Gods Chosen people as it says:
Deuteronomy 7:6-8 - "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. "The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but because the LORD loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Even still, we (the Hebrew) continued in sin. This curse over us, which I think is 400 years, and is ending very soon ( I think they calculate it from the time we went into bondage 1619, US slavery). Anyway, maybe then things will change and we can learn to live together in peace. Do the research of the exodus… You will draw to the same conclusion. Again, if you question then do the research, be like the Bereans - Acts 17:11 “received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.",
The truth is out there people and its right before your eyes it’s called the BIBLE. Again , we as we were then and where are we now; still under the curse. Return to your first love! Take responsibility and accountability! Our descendants brought this upon themselves and us; for the most part we are not acting any better today, for the most part….. Yes, there’s so much more to this as well, city, state, and government programs design to keep the minority in their place. It’s designed from the top and pushed down! The church for one can start telling the truth concerning biblical history as well Old Testament; because I really believe those that have studied know, yet teach in how they want to instruct those that don’t read to think.
Hosea 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Anyway we were warned then, we need to change today. I don’t think anything will really change until the 400 years are lifted and Gods chosen return to their first love.
Ps: I don’t profess to be a write, but I hope the point in made, it’s beyond me and it’s in God awesome word.
Excellent.
Fallacy, after fallacy after fallacy. Put to death your sin. Again... put to death the heritage that you have made for yourself and then align with the word/law. This is way oversimplified but there was precious little about this that was biblical.
amen, this is the God-given truth i've been seeking! i'm sick of all the hate in the church, especially against all minority groups that churches don't even know exist. hallelujah!
I'm currently on my own journey to finding out what actual racial reconciliation and healing looks like. What does the church think about justice and advocacy.
That said, I'm reading a lot of book and watching a lot of videos, which is how I found myself here. But as I tried to watch this with an open heart, I found too many issues. I did watch until the end, hoping there would be some sort of redeeming quality, but I didn't find one.
The first issue I noticed is that there weren't any women of color on this panel. Why?
Second, I think the overall feel good message of this tone coddled a bit. Yes, in the end Christ is the only one that can bring about true justice and true healing, but shouldn't we "occupy" until he comes? Shouldn't we do what we can to fight for this that are being held down by the thumb of oppression?
This panel made it sound like we just need to love Christ and love people and then everything will be solved. No. When has anything in history ever been solved by just sitting around and being nice. It took men and women willing to make noise that turned the tides of history.
This panel also failed to talk about systems and power. While they did touch on privilege (Nice :D ) it's not enough to just touch on it. We cannot have true reconciliation until we can tell the truth. The truth about this country and it's oppressive history towards POC. The truth about how it's built on white supremacy that caters to white people.
If you're reading this and want to know more about Reconciliation and some ways that people are fighting against it, you should check out Be The Bridge to Racial Unity on Facebook.
I will say though, the small piece at the end by the pastor was nice and touching!
In Closing, this video had many great points and I can definitely see this as a soft entry into what racial reconciliation is, but what's said in it is not the standard and shouldn't be the example used to tackle this sensitive topic.
Amen!
What does scripture teach? 1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.
We all are of one kind of flesh, not to be separated by color. Romans 12:5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually parts of one another.
Romans 12:10 Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another;
🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
1 Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Matthew 5:23 "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother [Romans 8:14-17; Galatians 4:6-7] has something against you [Ezekiel 18:18], 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge [Ecclesiastes 5:8; Isaiah 55:8-9], the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny [Luke 6:46-49; 1 John 2:3-5; Galatians 6:2]." #Reparations
Only thing wrong with this I wish there were more white people on the panel .. I want to hear. From you .. Thank God for the moderator ... I want to hear others as well ... I love his experience in the black culture ... And how he was ready to listen ...
It could be that they were invited but opted not to participate because they may have felt there is no problem and that everything is fine as it is. In other words let everything stay the same as it is.
@@deniseallen3379 sad ...
That's the major problem, calling people White/Black/Hispanic. We should call each other brothers/sisters, fellow human being.
Blood Covenant
May be because is ''A real talk ''..I see it as a problem as well
competition in this life some advantages and disadvantages are obvious. playing strengths with unfamiliar markers
One of the african American pastors just said that they didn’t want their skin color ignored because then that means we aren’t capable of understanding our struggles or showing compassion. Ignoring color is a lazy way of establishing unity. In the New Testament Paul simultaneously spoke of ethnicity and unity by the power of the Holy Spirit. If we aren’t willing to acknowledge that God CLEARLY made us to be different then we aren’t going to get anywhere. In the same way that we wouldn’t deny that someone is biologically a women, man or child or adult, it would be ridiculous to act like someone color or culture doesn’t exist
@@shanbraz6011 line and verse of scripture for that please?
If it stupid don't do it so why are we having this conversation
Sunday school is separated by ages and types so what about that? I hate these conversations. Its catering to the world's diversity hatred. People at church don't talk to each other no matter your color
Hey Jesus911! Thanks so much for your comment. I am a pastor here at Sandals Church and I have been in multiple of these types of convos for decades. I have studied it in seminary and have spoken on this topic at universities and other organizations. Mostly at churches.
I say all that to say I have spoken on this topic and I am intrigued by your comment and would very much like to hear/read more! Just wanted to understand more of what you're trying to say. Can. you explain more? Would love talk about it. Either here or at pastorjeff@sandalschurch.com. Thanks!
@@jeffwhye its simple. Sunday school classes are designed for certain types of people and if you are not in a specific age group etc you cannot go to the class. Also here in Florida people already have their circles of friends
@@jesusisdead Hey friend, I think I understand. Let me tell you this, if a church is doing that. "segregating" people due to age, gender or whatever (would love to know the context but regardless) they are not doing what they should be. I will pray for a church like that and their leadership. But what you have experienced is not how a church should operate when it comes to "Sunday school". Also, when it comes to the church, the people of God and the family of God..there should be NO cliques! NONE. It's the exact opposite of who we should be as followers of Christ!
@@jeffwhye yeah it always bothered me but it all fairness to the church this is Sarasota so everyone is retired pretty much. They have almost no young kids.
Start the conversation with Christianity started in Africa, start with Jesus and all the characters in the Bible were not white . Then start the conversation
Excellent, Tim Timberlake! Stop making RACE the enemy. Make WRONG the enemy. It is wrong to discriminate against people for reasons of race, gender, skin color/pigmentation, economic status, faith affiliation or lack there of, hair texture/color, body shape, age, etc., etc., etc. Not only is it morally wrong. It is against the LAW.
The bottom line is, if these atrocities were happening to you or people who shared social likenesses, you would demand for them to stop also. It is NOT OKAY to just let the evils of White Supremacy continue to run rampant in the church. It is time once and for all to debunk the myths and horrible misrepresentations of some biblical scriptures to unlawfully and unjustifiably continue the truly demonic practice of racism in the church at large, in our society as a whole, and in our world universally. THE PRACTICE AND PERPETUATION OF SYSTEMIC (DIRECT OR INDIRECT) IS ABSOLUTELY ANTICHRIST AND WHEN LOOKED AT REASONABLY IS ABSOLUTELY UN-AMERICAN.
Black people in power including black pastors have not done much to better black lives either.
Amen black pastors are no better they just spewing out white supremacy stuff in black face.
I found this covo to be a bit Disney. Also, to often these panels only include men. Gotta do better.
Is Racism new? so why we have to explain it over and over again to white folks. Too much talk its time to act.
they are all preaching, waste of time, Just trying to gain more members.
The Messiah is black 🤎
I filmed a discussion on race with some leaders from my church. Check it out my channel