The Drachinifel YT channel has a fantastic, multi-part, step-by-step account of the Battle of Jutland that I have watched a few times. It includes the voices of other military history UA-camrs like Military Aviation History's Bismarck, Dr. Alexander Clarke, and Bernard from Military History Visualized, among many.
Maybe. But the German officers showed that they were on par maybe even better than the Brits. The Brits love to make jokes about Germans; their sturboness and "Prussian" stupidity, however this country with basically no sea faring experience and small coastline was about to dethrone Britain in the first half of the 20th century in nearly every aspect. Be it training, tactics, quality, prowess. The admiral here says, the Germans should have been destroyed. It was exactly the "Gefechtskehrtwendung" - the German name of the maneuver - which totally screwed the British. It was not luck, but training. It is very lazy to fantasise about a "What if"-scenario, if the Germans had a working countermeasure exactly for that purpose. Tl;DR The Brits can thank the US for saving their grace - twice :)
Well, that hour flew by! I've been a fan of Drachs for a while, but was also mightily impressed by Rear Admiral Dr Chris Parry. Hope they both collaborate more in the future
I like the respect that Drach gives to Admiral Dr Chris Parry. Civility and respect for achievement has been neglected in the so called modern world. Drach is not being servile. He is just being respectful.
What a thoroughly enjoyable presentation. Drachinifel looks like he just stepped off the weather deck (including his mussed hair). Your naval series are always very informative and Drach makes a wonderful addition to the show. I love the way you can tell everyone did their homework beforehand and are well versed in the details of the battle.The questions posed by James were well worded to draw the guest out, even if the premise of the show mandates certain standard "what if's" must be asked. The respect the guests showed each other's opinions, while not being in lockstep with each other, was refreshing to see. Well done!
Nice to hear Commodore Goodenough mentioned, often overlooked in general overviews of the battle but quietly played a crucial role (i.e., frequently the only one bothering to report back to Jellicoe what was going on)
Agree. The idea that they should have wrecked the German fleet is just garbage. It's Brits blinded by an Age of Sail success that is an utterly irrelevant parallel. Nelson's success was made possible in part by incompetent adversaries. Scheer was masterful in running away.
Indeed. So did Scheer. Imagine under the prevailing tactical and strategic environment. It was the best result the Germans could have achieved. Yet, it was not good enough for them to defeat the Royal Navy.
I remember reading that Jellicoe said "It's difficult to defeat an enemy who can turn and run off at 20+ knots while covering their retreat with smokescreens and torpedoes"
The comments about Admiral Sturdee brings up an interesting "what if." If the HMS Lion had been sunk at Dogger Bank, then there may not have been Admiral Beatty (and Flag Officer Seymour) in charge of the Battle Cruiser squadron at Jutland. And who may have been the admiral in charge instead? Sturdee!
Beattie and the shell suppliers were obviously working for the Germans. There was no practical function, in annihilating the German’s high fleet. Damaging it sourced exactly the same purpose.
More wonderful stuff. Someone should put "stoker" Drach and "Horatio" Parry on a canal boat and video their trip (add Jingles as cook if you must). One also wonders in particular how the timing of the ending of WW1/US entry would have interacted with the "Spanish" 'flu epidemic. Having >2/3 "what happened" and
@@bobmate08 Just looked it up, apparently neither Kinkaid or Oldendorf were aboard Battleships during that duel, so the credit should go to Admiral Weyler whom was actually in the Battleline commanding from USS Mississippi.
They probably meant “last battle line engagement.” Surigao Strait only involved a U.S. battle line and a rag-tag flotilla under Nishimura, with only one Japanese battleship even making it within range of the U.S. battleships before being sunk.
Brilliant stuff, well presented by top notch experts. I would have liked a bit more of a drill down on the would have been the potential results if the RN shells had been of better quality but I realise you cannot cover everything. There was a mention of 5-6 more German battleships/ battlecruisers sunk, but it would have been great to know when, where and the effect on the future course of the battle.
Given Beatty reputation is in the toilet, I'm probably say no. You might want to look at someone like Halsey, a man whose attack! attack! attack! strategy resulted in falling into a Japanese trap or sailing his fleet into a typhoon, and whose reputation was not seriously tested due to fighting against an opponent so much weaker.
Great channel and great video - thanks everyone involved 👍👍 Loved Drach for a while, and brought me into this interesting and grown up conversation with Admiral Chris (and good presenter as well, sorry can’t remember your name!!!)😊
I am not sure it was felt positively for long by the ordinary German in the trenches or on the home front as the critical situation remained for energy and food as a result of the blockade. The initial elation at the news would soon have turned sour when the reality of the situation become apparent.
What huge morale boost? There might have been a slight positive impact on the home front and the army who only read the censored newspaper reports about a great naval victory, but for the high seas fleet itself Jutland destroyed their morale, they fully recognised that they had had to run away from the British fleet in the end and when it was demanded that they set sail in 1918 they would end up mutinying
Please look into employing computer graphics in these presentations. The map boards are nice but a dynamic presentation showing the movements in a time sensitive way would aid in understanding. The what ifs could be overlaid in alternate colours demonstrating the different outcomes. Love the show.
Drach, Parry and Hanson and Jutland settles down to watch. The what if, as Germany needing to break the British blockages. Thanks for a consistent and interesting breakdown of Jutland.
28 British Dreadnoughts were involved at Jutland along with 9 battlecruisers but there were a number elsewhere too and more were still completing, after Jutland the Grand Fleet became stronger, the Germans realised trying to fight a fleet action was a bad idea and soon returned to all out submarine and mine warfare. They were never able to break the blockade that finished them.
The Germanswere the only nation (that I know of) to use brass casings for battleship size guns. Everyone else used silk bags like the British. The difference was, the Britishused a particularly unstable propelland, cordite, which would break down over time and leave explosive dust everywhere. It was this dust that could ignite at such distances, causing the charge to also go up.
It was good to finally hear Drach discuss something from the opposition's perspective rather than just go over again what the Royal Navy could have done to win bigger.
The admiral is off base as far as keeping propellant in silk bags being an issue. This was standard across every navy through the end of the battleship era. The only propellant the Germans kept in brass casings was the last charge, with the other 3-5 charges in silk bags like everyone else’s. The issue for the RN was the sheer instability of cordite, combined with terrible ammo handling and removal of the safety interlocks.
Beattie and the shell suppliers were obviously working for the Germans. There was no practical function, in annihilating the German’s high fleet. Damaging it sourced exactly the same purpose.
If you don’t mind me asking, because a few people gave said it without going into any details, what technical advantage did the High seas fleet have over the Royal navy?
Beattie and the shell suppliers were obviously working for the Germans. There was no practical function, in annihilating the German’s high fleet. Damaging it sourced exactly the same purpose.
It seems the old boys club worked well in these times. A nimcompoop like Beatty costing how many lives and he was still made commender of the fleet - absolutely mind blowing.
I think there was some kind of political shenanigans going on. Remember that Queen Victoria, was the grandma of King George and Kaiser Wilhelm. They secretly helped out the Germans a bit, by supplying dud shells and having Beattie as a stool pigeon, in the fleet at the front.
I see Drachinifel, I watch. I'm not a fan of naval things in any other context other than with Drach, to be honest. He's shaping up to be a minor national treasure.
Can we take a shot every time they dunk on Beatty or would that be a bad idea? Edit: after watching the video they weren’t as harsh on Beatty as I expected. There was more shade being thrown Jellicoe’s way. Since it was Admiral Parry being critical of another admiral I guess it’s fair.
as i understand germans basicly want to do a defeat in detial/ or hit and run. is a valid option in there position. i agee in the end focus on speed and leave the slower ships home. or behind as a reserve. the erea of doggerland could that have effected naval movement? my knolage is zero on that part.
Very, very interesting documentary! Jutland is one of the biggest "what if's" in the history of naval warfare. If you've not already done it, such a analysis of the battle of Midway and Nagumo's dilemma would be every bit as interesting. Thanks a lot! It's a pity that Beatty, who made so many errors and blunders before and during the battle, ended up commanding the whole Grand Fleet. When political and family connections are more useful than competence...
Thank you for watching! The Battle of Midway was one of first episodes on the channel and you can find it here ua-cam.com/video/cUOk5a2Nyzw/v-deo.htmlsi=YKFBt-wFnkLnmAmq
@@LucioFercho Whenever looking at a battle, you must ask. What were the objectives? The UK sought to maintain the status quo. Keep the grand fleet locked up, maintain the blockade. They did exactly that. The Germans FAILED, to break the blockade, and retreated to port. So despite the British losses... they won.
EXACTLY... and this is also the part where you will feel... Because you will have to find a German source indicating that the Germans actually intended to break the blockade at Jutland. But you wont find one, that idea was simply 100 year old brit tales. Moreover... how could the Germans break a blockade that was implemented at the GIUK gap? AND... according to your logic, if the HSF had sunk all 10 ships of Beattys ships and still retreated when confronted b the GF... it owuld ALSO be a German defeat??? Please.
Yeah, tell me which were the German objectives, quote it from a German. They were not what the UK tales have fed you. Go on, according to you, what were the German objectives at Jutland?
@@Destroyer_V0 And the Germans SUCCEEDED in their objective into making the British fleet smaller. The Germans didn't even have enough ammunition with them to break the blockade in a single battle and smashing up the Grand Fleet was never on the table, making this a "British always win the battle" condition.
I don’t see what way you can look at Jutland other than as a British victory. The status quo was all they were looking to preserve- that being the blockade and control of the Channel and North Sea. Which they did.
Tactically, it was a clear defeat. They lost more than the Germans even while having a large advantage in numbers and firepower. Strategically, it was a decisive victory as it ended German plans for challenging the British fleet. Or, as Drach has put it in the past there were really two battles, the Battlecruiser engagement where the British got trounced and the battfleet engagement that was a clear British victory. However, no matter who "won", the battle was major a failure for the British. They blew a ripe opportunity to devastate the German fleet.
@@88porpoise I wouldn't say it was a clear tactical defeat. By some numbers, the french lost more men at the wagram yet that cannot be considered anything but a victory. The greeks lost less at thermopylae yet its a clear defeat. Drachs quotation is useful, its a strange defeat when the victor flees and the defeated chases, especially when the german fleet lost less ships but far more of their fleet was unfit to fight again.
You’re repeating the tagline. “Tactical defeat, strategic victory.” Duh. But who WON? They had the battle in the first place because the Germans wanted to break out of their internment and the British wanted them to stay bottled up. They stayed bottled up. The British won.
@@matthewnewton8812 Both the Germans and the British won depending on how you measure it. Not everything is nice and black and white answer. What you describe is the strategic outcome, which was a definite British victory.
Ah! The old tale of the "strategic victory"... 1. The Germans never sailed to "challenge" the GF, that they they just intended to show the flag. 2. The Germans did sail after Jutland happy to have another try at catching isolated sections of the GF. Pure rubbish
I have an opinion people won't agree with. These commanders where more interested in polished brass and neatly dressed sailors. They didn't know much about fighting and didn't have much mental flexibility. Training was false and more about making people look good. I'm sure people won't agree but that is my honest opinion.
The main fault on the German side was that after the battle the timid in Germany took over. Kaiser Wilhelm was against risking the High See Fleet again. Germany should have tried again, but did not.
Radio signal security failure gave England the opportunity for victory. If the Germans had adequate signals security and achieved surprise, they could have engaged the Southern half of England's fleet and badly mauled it. Then later they might have had a chance against the remaining English fleet.
Yeah things could have been different but that's true of every historical event. I think that given the knowledge and information Jellicoe had that he did about as well as he could. Now, his command style wasn't the most conducive to independent action. Bettie on the other hand was too full of himself to consider any of the issues Jellicoe did consider. One thing that should strike any one is the weight of the personalities involved.
The North Sea has drawn them near The fleet of the High Seas approach A contest of titans commence These days will dictate their fate The grand fleet prepares their guns Unleashed as the dreadnoughts clash at last 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
@@raphaellubbers1759 Yeah we germans have quite a few of those battles dont we? But jokes aside we germans tend to lose focus on what is important and instead think that victory is just behind the next battle. We start strong and then become too arrogant fast and start disregarding our opponents. We also like to use up all our supplies and overstretch our supplylines so we basically stand naked in front of Moscow or El Alamein. But this is a cause of the "Next victory" belief we adopt after a few victories.
@@arnepietruszewski9255 It's true for you Germans ever since you became you Germany, you have a shocking record at winning wars ever since you became Germany.
Thank you. That was excellent. I enjoyed the polite disagreement at the end on night fighting in WWII. The Moderator did a great job including the summary at the end.
5:27 but my fleet admiral has cancer or what XD it just sounds like the guy is getting flamed for being defensively minded rather than actually being ill
Come on, the BCF relied on rate of fire, because their shooting was awful. Their shooting was awful because they had no access to safe full calibre gunnery ranges. Hood’s battle cruiser squadron was up at Scapa for gunnery practice, Beatty should have been cycling his units through Scapa from the beginning, and Jellicoe should have insisted earlier.
I also thought that. I mean, both Parry and Drach are great, but it might have been even more interesting, if a german historian or Admiral would have been present as well.
The Germans would literally have to annihilate the WHOLE British fleet in one battle in order to make any difference whatsoever. This was never going to happen. The Germans are a continental power NOT a maritime one and the strategic position of the UK means their position was basically hopeless. Thus the Imperial German High Seas Fleet was a bit of a waste of time, money and resources.
Drach looks like a Malta Station Submarine commander 1942/3 style.
"All set..." (das Boot style)
Possibly, on purpose perhaps….
@@DanielGreen-j4cI do try to dress vaguely on theme :)
... crossed with Denis the Menace (the Yank one, with that little but of upstanding hair at the back). But a really good team, Drach and the Admiral.
@@Drachinifel should have a tricorn a la Nelson.
"The German Navy has assaulted its jailer, but is still in jail." - New York Times contemporary comment on the Battle of Jutland
The Drachinifel YT channel has a fantastic, multi-part, step-by-step account of the Battle of Jutland that I have watched a few times. It includes the voices of other military history UA-camrs like Military Aviation History's Bismarck, Dr. Alexander Clarke, and Bernard from Military History Visualized, among many.
Maybe. But the German officers showed that they were on par maybe even better than the Brits.
The Brits love to make jokes about Germans; their sturboness and "Prussian" stupidity, however this country with basically no sea faring experience and small coastline was about to dethrone Britain in the first half of the 20th century in nearly every aspect. Be it training, tactics, quality, prowess.
The admiral here says, the Germans should have been destroyed. It was exactly the "Gefechtskehrtwendung" - the German name of the maneuver - which totally screwed the British. It was not luck, but training. It is very lazy to fantasise about a "What if"-scenario, if the Germans had a working countermeasure exactly for that purpose.
Tl;DR The Brits can thank the US for saving their grace - twice :)
@Peter-vf3dl that's only because the shells didn't work.
@@wierdalien1 The crappy RN ships were explosions waiting to happen... the shells have alwas been an excuse by a delusional writer
@trauko1388 you really have no understanding.
Well, that hour flew by! I've been a fan of Drachs for a while, but was also mightily impressed by Rear Admiral Dr Chris Parry. Hope they both collaborate more in the future
Nice to see drach and adm parry chatting . Id like them to chat more about naval history thats the podcast id watch
Seconded
Third
Fourth
Another here
I like the respect that Drach gives to Admiral Dr Chris Parry. Civility and respect for achievement has been neglected in the so called modern world. Drach is not being servile. He is just being respectful.
What a thoroughly enjoyable presentation. Drachinifel looks like he just stepped off the weather deck (including his mussed hair). Your naval series are always very informative and Drach makes a wonderful addition to the show. I love the way you can tell everyone did their homework beforehand and are well versed in the details of the battle.The questions posed by James were well worded to draw the guest out, even if the premise of the show mandates certain standard "what if's" must be asked. The respect the guests showed each other's opinions, while not being in lockstep with each other, was refreshing to see. Well done!
Drach did a Great Job in this video.
His barber however failed him.
Very interesting input from both Drach and Dr Chris Parry, and James did a great of of balancing the whole discussion. Props to all involved.
This is the best hidden gem on UA-cam. Love this channel!! Drach is the man!!
Is Beatty worthy of his status on Trafalgar Square, I think not.
Makes me think of a great line from Lawrence of Arabia; “Well, nil nisi bonum, but did he really deserve a place…here?”
maybe they should move it to Alexanderplatz in Berlin?
Nice to hear Commodore Goodenough mentioned, often overlooked in general overviews of the battle but quietly played a crucial role (i.e., frequently the only one bothering to report back to Jellicoe what was going on)
Leaning into the obvious joke, he was indeed good enough, and as a far more well-spoken man than I has said, ‘good enough is perfect’.
Jellico handled his fleet masterfully, in my amateur but somewhat studied opinion.
Beatty.....not so much.
@@samsignorelli Those battlecruisers just wont blow themselves up.
Agree. The idea that they should have wrecked the German fleet is just garbage. It's Brits blinded by an Age of Sail success that is an utterly irrelevant parallel. Nelson's success was made possible in part by incompetent adversaries. Scheer was masterful in running away.
Indeed. So did Scheer.
Imagine under the prevailing tactical and strategic environment. It was the best result the Germans could have achieved.
Yet, it was not good enough for them to defeat the Royal Navy.
It was an awful lot of fleet to keep a handle on!
I have a feeling that Drach was holding back on his usual criticism of Beatty.
Beattie was a stool pigeon.
I remember reading that Jellicoe said "It's difficult to defeat an enemy who can turn and run off at 20+ knots while covering their retreat with smokescreens and torpedoes"
The comments about Admiral Sturdee brings up an interesting "what if." If the HMS Lion had been sunk at Dogger Bank, then there may not have been Admiral Beatty (and Flag Officer Seymour) in charge of the Battle Cruiser squadron at Jutland. And who may have been the admiral in charge instead? Sturdee!
Beattie and the shell suppliers were obviously working for the Germans.
There was no practical function, in annihilating the German’s high fleet.
Damaging it sourced exactly the same purpose.
Drach's hairdo is perfect 👌.
Stay focused on the history.
Drach having messed up hair is so on brand I love it
I’ll watch anything with Drach in it. He’s great to hear from.
More wonderful stuff. Someone should put "stoker" Drach and "Horatio" Parry on a canal boat and video their trip (add Jingles as cook if you must). One also wonders in particular how the timing of the ending of WW1/US entry would have interacted with the "Spanish" 'flu epidemic. Having >2/3 "what happened" and
The best explanation of that confusing battle I've seen - thanks!
Thanks. You are welcome.
Not the last battleship v. battleship engagement. Admirals Lee and Oldendorff would like a word.
Now that was a master class on BB handling.
What? It was Admiral Nishimura and Admiral Kinkaid who fought the last Battleship duel.
@Edax_Royeaux Kinkaid held overall command of Seventh Fleet, but it was Oldendorf's battle line which crossed Nishimura's T
@@bobmate08 Just looked it up, apparently neither Kinkaid or Oldendorf were aboard Battleships during that duel, so the credit should go to Admiral Weyler whom was actually in the Battleline commanding from USS Mississippi.
They probably meant “last battle line engagement.” Surigao Strait only involved a U.S. battle line and a rag-tag flotilla under Nishimura, with only one Japanese battleship even making it within range of the U.S. battleships before being sunk.
just fantastic that Drach is consulted ---- beyond 'made my day!'
Brilliant stuff, well presented by top notch experts. I would have liked a bit more of a drill down on the would have been the potential results if the RN shells had been of better quality but I realise you cannot cover everything. There was a mention of 5-6 more German battleships/ battlecruisers sunk, but it would have been great to know when, where and the effect on the future course of the battle.
I am a simple man - I see Drach , I hit like
Awesome video, really enjoyed it!
Great episode, it’s nice to see the number of subs increasing for this channel.
Thanks Doug. Appreciate your support.
I always enjoy seeing drachinefel on a video. Both guests were great. Excellent video
Came back, just for Drach.
What a thoroughly *fascinating* discussion and analysis. Thanks!
I'm a simple man, I see Drach, I click.
Excellent analysis!
Wow this is truly top quality, extremely interesting even for ex Military buffs like myself. Thanks for this masterpiece! Greetings from Sweden
Thanks so much, this was a GREAT episode, and covered a lot of naval history I do not have....very educational, huzzah!!!
Is David Beatty perhaps one of the most overated Admiral in RN history? Ironic that he took after Jellicoe after so many mistakes at Jutland.
He was a stool pigeon.
Given Beatty reputation is in the toilet, I'm probably say no. You might want to look at someone like Halsey, a man whose attack! attack! attack! strategy resulted in falling into a Japanese trap or sailing his fleet into a typhoon, and whose reputation was not seriously tested due to fighting against an opponent so much weaker.
Beattie was a stool pigeon.
Great channel and great video - thanks everyone involved 👍👍
Loved Drach for a while, and brought me into this interesting and grown up conversation with Admiral Chris (and good presenter as well, sorry can’t remember your name!!!)😊
Very interesting, learnt a lot here
What about the huge morale victory that boosted Germany in WW1?
What affects did that have on Germany’s land strategies and offensives?
I am not sure it was felt positively for long by the ordinary German in the trenches or on the home front as the critical situation remained for energy and food as a result of the blockade. The initial elation at the news would soon have turned sour when the reality of the situation become apparent.
What huge morale boost? There might have been a slight positive impact on the home front and the army who only read the censored newspaper reports about a great naval victory, but for the high seas fleet itself Jutland destroyed their morale, they fully recognised that they had had to run away from the British fleet in the end and when it was demanded that they set sail in 1918 they would end up mutinying
Please look into employing computer graphics in these presentations. The map boards are nice but a dynamic presentation showing the movements in a time sensitive way would aid in understanding. The what ifs could be overlaid in alternate colours demonstrating the different outcomes. Love the show.
Animation is very expensive. Ask TiK.
It feels more authentic with the maps. We’ve all seen the documentaries and films about Jutland already.
Interesting hair cut Drach ;) love hearing your opinions and insights!
Be fair he's just come of a two month command of HMS Saracen.
Drach is rocking a man-bun.
My great grandfather was a chief stoker and went down with the Indefatigable
Quite amusing to remember talk of Prussian Militarism while ignoring British Militarism
Great stuff - very enjoyable. I'm surprised there was no mention at all of Jellicoe's 'famous' turn-away in the face of torpedo attack though ?
You weren’t listening properly.
Now we need to hear them discuss who got the better night fight training: the Brits or the Japanese? Please keep making this series with them.
Japanese. Not even a question. As of WWI, there was no night fighting doctrine.
@@dmbeaster The KM did have one, so they crushed the RN opposition at night.
What’s the difference day or night when you’re deep in the belly of a ship?
@@LucioFercho Crushed? There was no meaningful night fighting. They used the night to sneak away.
@@flashgordon6670 Difference? Aiming your guns and getting hits.
Drach, Parry and Hanson and Jutland settles down to watch. The what if, as Germany needing to break the British blockages.
Thanks for a consistent and interesting breakdown of Jutland.
28 British Dreadnoughts were involved at Jutland along with 9 battlecruisers but there were a number elsewhere too and more were still completing, after Jutland the Grand Fleet became stronger, the Germans realised trying to fight a fleet action was a bad idea and soon returned to all out submarine and mine warfare. They were never able to break the blockade that finished them.
The Germanswere the only nation (that I know of) to use brass casings for battleship size guns. Everyone else used silk bags like the British.
The difference was, the Britishused a particularly unstable propelland, cordite, which would break down over time and leave explosive dust everywhere. It was this dust that could ignite at such distances, causing the charge to also go up.
It was good to finally hear Drach discuss something from the opposition's perspective rather than just go over again what the Royal Navy could have done to win bigger.
The admiral is off base as far as keeping propellant in silk bags being an issue. This was standard across every navy through the end of the battleship era. The only propellant the Germans kept in brass casings was the last charge, with the other 3-5 charges in silk bags like everyone else’s. The issue for the RN was the sheer instability of cordite, combined with terrible ammo handling and removal of the safety interlocks.
Complementary contributors. Thanks
The Royal Navy faced an enemy that was technologically advanced with highly trained and capable crew.
Which was why there would not be another Trafalgar. Part of that was due to an incompetent enemy.
Plus the British had several technological advantages over the French and Spanish at Trafalgar and Nelson in command.
Beattie and the shell suppliers were obviously working for the Germans.
There was no practical function, in annihilating the German’s high fleet.
Damaging it sourced exactly the same purpose.
If you don’t mind me asking, because a few people gave said it without going into any details, what technical advantage did the High seas fleet have over the Royal navy?
Listen to the video dimlo.
Then there was Beatty
Beattie and the shell suppliers were obviously working for the Germans.
There was no practical function, in annihilating the German’s high fleet.
Damaging it sourced exactly the same purpose.
Beattie was a stool pigeon.
I have always been fascinated how Beatty messes up and almost costs them to lose the battle but gets rewarded for it.
Whats a read admiral?
An admiral that reads about admirals?
It seems the old boys club worked well in these times. A nimcompoop like Beatty costing how many lives and he was still made commender of the fleet - absolutely mind blowing.
I think there was some kind of political shenanigans going on. Remember that Queen Victoria, was the grandma of King George and Kaiser Wilhelm. They secretly helped out the Germans a bit, by supplying dud shells and having Beattie as a stool pigeon, in the fleet at the front.
This video may break the internet 😎
Why?
I see Drachinifel, I watch. I'm not a fan of naval things in any other context other than with Drach, to be honest. He's shaping up to be a minor national treasure.
Can we take a shot every time they dunk on Beatty or would that be a bad idea?
Edit: after watching the video they weren’t as harsh on Beatty as I expected. There was more shade being thrown Jellicoe’s way. Since it was Admiral Parry being critical of another admiral I guess it’s fair.
You will have passed out long before the dunk stopped.
Beattie was a stool pigeon.
Beatty and Boris take your pick. England's finest.
Is Parry descended from William Parry of Achilles? (River Plate)
DUNNO
Is Drach descended from Sir Francis Drake?
Thanks
as i understand germans basicly want to do a defeat in detial/ or hit and run. is a valid option in there position. i agee in the end focus on speed and leave the slower ships home. or behind as a reserve. the erea of doggerland could that have effected naval movement? my knolage is zero on that part.
Very, very interesting documentary! Jutland is one of the biggest "what if's" in the history of naval warfare. If you've not already done it, such a analysis of the battle of Midway and Nagumo's dilemma would be every bit as interesting. Thanks a lot!
It's a pity that Beatty, who made so many errors and blunders before and during the battle, ended up commanding the whole Grand Fleet. When political and family connections are more useful than competence...
Thank you for watching! The Battle of Midway was one of first episodes on the channel and you can find it here ua-cam.com/video/cUOk5a2Nyzw/v-deo.htmlsi=YKFBt-wFnkLnmAmq
Beattie was a stool pigeon.
Drach got me interested in naval warfare.
A tactical tie. A strategic win.
LOL, sure son
@@LucioFercho Whenever looking at a battle, you must ask. What were the objectives?
The UK sought to maintain the status quo. Keep the grand fleet locked up, maintain the blockade.
They did exactly that.
The Germans FAILED, to break the blockade, and retreated to port. So despite the British losses... they won.
EXACTLY... and this is also the part where you will feel...
Because you will have to find a German source indicating that the Germans actually intended to break the blockade at Jutland.
But you wont find one, that idea was simply 100 year old brit tales.
Moreover... how could the Germans break a blockade that was implemented at the GIUK gap?
AND... according to your logic, if the HSF had sunk all 10 ships of Beattys ships and still retreated when confronted b the GF... it owuld ALSO be a German defeat???
Please.
Yeah, tell me which were the German objectives, quote it from a German.
They were not what the UK tales have fed you.
Go on, according to you, what were the German objectives at Jutland?
@@Destroyer_V0 And the Germans SUCCEEDED in their objective into making the British fleet smaller. The Germans didn't even have enough ammunition with them to break the blockade in a single battle and smashing up the Grand Fleet was never on the table, making this a "British always win the battle" condition.
I don’t see what way you can look at Jutland other than as a British victory. The status quo was all they were looking to preserve- that being the blockade and control of the Channel and North Sea. Which they did.
Tactically, it was a clear defeat. They lost more than the Germans even while having a large advantage in numbers and firepower.
Strategically, it was a decisive victory as it ended German plans for challenging the British fleet.
Or, as Drach has put it in the past there were really two battles, the Battlecruiser engagement where the British got trounced and the battfleet engagement that was a clear British victory.
However, no matter who "won", the battle was major a failure for the British. They blew a ripe opportunity to devastate the German fleet.
@@88porpoise I wouldn't say it was a clear tactical defeat. By some numbers, the french lost more men at the wagram yet that cannot be considered anything but a victory.
The greeks lost less at thermopylae yet its a clear defeat.
Drachs quotation is useful, its a strange defeat when the victor flees and the defeated chases, especially when the german fleet lost less ships but far more of their fleet was unfit to fight again.
You’re repeating the tagline. “Tactical defeat, strategic victory.” Duh. But who WON? They had the battle in the first place because the Germans wanted to break out of their internment and the British wanted them to stay bottled up. They stayed bottled up. The British won.
@@matthewnewton8812 Both the Germans and the British won depending on how you measure it. Not everything is nice and black and white answer.
What you describe is the strategic outcome, which was a definite British victory.
Ah! The old tale of the "strategic victory"...
1. The Germans never sailed to "challenge" the GF, that they they just intended to show the flag.
2. The Germans did sail after Jutland happy to have another try at catching isolated sections of the GF.
Pure rubbish
Beattie was obviously working for the Germans and so were the shell suppliers.
As the Admiral said Germany without the French Atlantic ports is at a very great disadvantage geographically.
The RN has a handful of ships now days sadly.
Incredible after so many glaring gaffs committed by Beatty that he’s ultimately rewarded with command of the Grand Fleet.
Beattie was a stool pigeon.
Didn't Beaty have freinds at court, and a cousin in horse guards?
Beattie was a stool pigeon.
I have an opinion people won't agree with. These commanders where more interested in polished brass and neatly dressed sailors. They didn't know much about fighting and didn't have much mental flexibility. Training was false and more about making people look good. I'm sure people won't agree but that is my honest opinion.
The German Fleet did play a major part in the invasion of the Baltic Islands in 1917.
Absolutely Brilliant!!! I Lost a Third Cousin, Once Removed,
Who was a Paymaster aboard HMS Black Prince…
Yeah? And my Godmother’s great auntie’s sister in law had a cat that once caught a mouse that had a friend’s brother mouse on the Ark Royal.
Drach is my favorite historian but bro needs a comb
This time, not broadcasting from the Drachmobile.... 😁
The main fault on the German side was that after the battle the timid in Germany took over. Kaiser Wilhelm was against risking the High See Fleet again. Germany should have tried again, but did not.
Radio signal security failure gave England the opportunity for victory. If the Germans had adequate signals security and achieved surprise, they could have engaged the Southern half of England's fleet and badly mauled it. Then later they might have had a chance against the remaining English fleet.
Nice to see Drachinifel here!
Drach is so cool
Drach is also an author now
Crikey! Imagine being aboard that steamer when both sides investigated it and the firing started. That's a story to tell your grandchildren.
Yeah things could have been different but that's true of every historical event. I think that given the knowledge and information Jellicoe had that he did about as well as he could. Now, his command style wasn't the most conducive to independent action.
Bettie on the other hand was too full of himself to consider any of the issues Jellicoe did consider.
One thing that should strike any one is the weight of the personalities involved.
Haven't watched the video yet, but the battle of Jutland would have been a British victory if they had just had properly functioning shells lol
The North Sea has drawn them near
The fleet of the High Seas approach
A contest of titans commence
These days will dictate their fate
The grand fleet prepares their guns
Unleashed as the dreadnoughts clash at last
🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
Baetty tried to sieze defeat from the jaws of victory!
Beattie was a stool pigeon.
Ah, Skagerrack, Skaggerac, Scagarak, oh, nevermind.
superb but ads every few minutes made it almost unwatchable
Well install brave browser or addblock
This battle is the classic example of an operational victory for germany , while it was a tactical draw and a strategic defeat for germany.
I see a pattern here. It's a bit like - ok we lose on the strategic side of things, let's at least score some points in the exam.
@@raphaellubbers1759 Yeah we germans have quite a few of those battles dont we?
But jokes aside we germans tend to lose focus on what is important and instead think that victory is just behind the next battle.
We start strong and then become too arrogant fast and start disregarding our opponents. We also like to use up all our supplies and overstretch our supplylines so we basically stand naked in front of Moscow or El Alamein. But this is a cause of the "Next victory" belief we adopt after a few victories.
@@arnepietruszewski9255 It's true for you Germans ever since you became you Germany, you have a shocking record at winning wars ever since you became Germany.
'Could've. should've, would've' is neither here nor there: were realist variables explained: Beaty's impulsion, Jellicoe's deliberation?
That cowlick though... 😆
Thank you. That was excellent. I enjoyed the polite disagreement at the end on night fighting in WWII. The Moderator did a great job including the summary at the end.
5:27 but my fleet admiral has cancer or what XD it just sounds like the guy is getting flamed for being defensively minded rather than actually being ill
Come on, the BCF relied on rate of fire, because their shooting was awful. Their shooting was awful because they had no access to safe full calibre gunnery ranges. Hood’s battle cruiser squadron was up at Scapa for gunnery practice, Beatty should have been cycling his units through Scapa from the beginning, and Jellicoe should have insisted earlier.
Aren’t there any German historians, who can present their side of the story?
I also thought that. I mean, both Parry and Drach are great, but it might have been even more interesting, if a german historian or Admiral would have been present as well.
@@balli7836 Do you Germans even have any experts on WW1 naval warfare?
@@ChrisCrossClash Perhaps not as many as countries like the UK with a much longer naval tradition but there are a few at least.
Drach rocking that bed head!
And that is with Hair and Makeup.
Did nobody spot his hat hair?
In the modern digital age your lack of good maps and graphics is unforgiveable.
The Germans would literally have to annihilate the WHOLE British fleet in one battle in order to make any difference whatsoever.
This was never going to happen.
The Germans are a continental power NOT a maritime one and the strategic position of the UK means their position was basically hopeless.
Thus the Imperial German High Seas Fleet was a bit of a waste of time, money and resources.
Most of what I know about Jutland is from Drach.
Beattie was a stool pigeon.
this should have been animated...................
love everything about this format, except the spoilers at the start, thsoe are heavily anoying.