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My grandmothers elder sister was born right in the midst of a giant military exercise of the German army that took place ten years r so before the beginning of WWI. But when word reached the Kaiser Wilhelm II. who was present in a village nearby, that there was a woman lying in heavy labor, he immediately gave order to halt the entire manoeuver and the big guns who had been busy shooting the whole day all went quiet, hundreds of thousands of officers and men stopped in their tracks, laid down their weapons, to patiently wait in silence. It was not until the message came in, that everything at last had gone well with that childbirth, and positive confirmation was given to the emperor, that both the mother and the newborn baby were in good health and in safe condition, with all the necessairy care for them at hand, that the military exercise was allowed to continue. In honor of this personal intervention on behalf of an ordinairy German woman, who was the wife of a veterinarian, the baby girl was given the name Wilhelmine and I am happy to tell you and the world of this act of personal kindness towards a member of my family by the German Emperor Wilhelm II. May he rest in peace.
That's kind of hard to believe, or he is just a hypocrite. He's ok with sacrificing millions of his young men in war, and the women and children struggling to survive with little food. But this one baby being born during a military exercise is so important that everything comes to a hault until this random lady gives birth? That's an incompetent leader making ridiculous decisions. A lady giving birth should be the least of his concerns, while the decisions he is making will affect millions.
What a lovely event to pass on to history. Thank you ❤ Now I've heard of the awful birth experience for Wilhelm and how it led to his torture as a child, it makes sense. Thank you again. Also nice to hear a story about a woman and child. Almost all (political) history is male. Understandably, as women were excluded from that sphere.
The two of you look exactly like I’ve imagined, after the hundreds of hours of listening to you while working outside in the east coast Canadian weather. You two have gotten me through a lot of long days! Thank you very much, enjoying the longer episodes and series lately! The Longer the Better it gets! Thank you fellas
They also besides their obvious historical knowledge have a great charisma and wonderful sense of light humour. Dominic has long been a favourite British social historian of mine. Tom’s brother James Holland along with Al Murray are two other great historians who give a fascinating but enjoyable view of history. Can’t wait to hear the episode where the ostrich is shot 😉
Brilliant quote ‘It’s not that there are too few facts available but that there are too many’ Also works for the world of the internet and social media we now live in sadly 😔
First time encountering them. Just loving the depth of erudition and learning and the way they convey these issues in such an engaging way. Fascinating stuff.
Franz Josef had already been goaded into two disastrous wars in which he believed he was in the right - in 1859 and 1866. The religious sense had always been a part of Habsburg policy. An excellent episode btw.
I think he always convinced himself that every war was existential and about dynastic survival.... in other words to lose a war or fail to fight one would be disastrous for his regime. The "lose a war" part is obvious.... but the "fail to fight one" was the fatal error. With a persistent war mongerer like Chief of staff Conrad Von Hotzendorff demanding war and the moderating voice of Franz Ferdinand removed from the scene he was fatally influenced towards war. His circle of advisors lost the principal voice for peace whose ghost now arguably demanded revenge.
So entertaining. I've only listened to these two on BBC sounds and I always love when you can put a name to a face. They both look younger than I expected, from my minds eye and Tom has the greater voice to face ratio expectation. Usually I'm hiking or in my tent at the end of a days walking listening to this.
Very enjoyable presentation. The downside of learning history (or The Shock of History, as Dominique Venner called it) is that pretty much everything in it could have been avoided.
The injury to the Kaiser is called shoulder dystocia and is a common complication during delivery, particularly before cesarian section was common. I doubt the doctors were particularly negligent just because he had this injury.
Great, great series. Magnificent discussion, thank you. And for even those that dread the outbreak, probably their conceptions of the scale of the coming horrors, are bound within the limits of Napoleonic and Russo-Japanese wars.
Just want to say how much I love this show. It’s just fantastic and both speakers are simply incredible and fluid and so well prepared. Love it so much. Listen to it all the time while cycling to and from work in Shenzhen, China.
What probably a lot of English speaking people don't realize is that in German the emperor of Austria-Hungary was called Kaiser as well - indeed as the successor to the Holy Roman emperors he was the original Kaiser and the Prussian one was an upstart. I think there was actually a song at the time -"There is only one Imperial city / there's only one Vienna!"
Well no, Kaiser is simply the german word for emperor. They held two different imperial titles and the one held by Franz Josef did not include the other german realms as not only had the title "King of the Germans" become defunct since the destruction of the HRE but his Title of Kaiser only refered to the lands within the Austrian parts of the Habsburg empire. It is hard to claim that the Prussian ruling house of Germany were upstarts as technicaly they had not claimed the original title meant for the rulers of Germany proper, Their current titles were either held since the 1300's, 16/1700's or Created in 1871. And of course the Austrians might feel like the Prussians were upstarts but the truth is they would never have united Germany so it is rather hard to feel sympathy for people crying about a title they never even would have had.
@@christianandersson4345 But the Austro-Hungarian ruler was referred to as the kaiser by his own subjects was he not? -which was the point I made originally. In English it is an extremely handy thing to refer to him as an emperor and the German one as the Kaiser but both were Kaisers were they not.? And of course the word "Czar" and "Tsar" are merely the Russian forms of "Kaiser' -and it is merely a handy thing to keep at as such and not translate it as "emperor." Funny that we don't do the same thing for other potentates like the emperors of China and Japan but we did it for Iran (Shah) and Abyssinia (Negus.)
@@kaloarepo288 Yes that is correct sorry if i missed your point. I think it might really have to do with history painting both the leadership of Germany and Russia as a sort of backwards historical villain that was led more by an instiution than a man or indivudal. The Kaiser does invoke a certain feeling i suspect in many that simply emperor does not. Or it could simply have to do with the greater focus placed on these rulers in western teaching, If i say Kaiser or Tzar you would instantly know what nation i am speaking of, if i said Ten'nō most would not. Or it could be other factors but an interesting point nonetheless.
"What probably a lot of English speaking people don't realize is that in German the emperor of Austria-Hungary was called Kaiser as well - indeed as the successor to the Holy Roman emperors he was the original Kaiser" That´s not really true. Basically it´s not true at all. Kaiser means somebody who receives this title from the pope in Rome. This is what set him apart for centuries from all the other rulers in Europe. This and only this made a king becoming Emperor. The conferment of the imperial dignity by the head of the Catholic Church was simply a basic requirement. Without this one couldn´t be Emperor. In 1806 the last German-Roman Emperor Franz II vacated this title and made himself Emperor of Austria instead which is nothing else than a fantasy title and therefore the same poppyckock as "German Emperor" what the Hohenzollern were or Emperor of the French what Napoleon called himself or Emperess of India what the Brits did. In the 18th century all of a sudden every Tom, Dick and Harry called himself Emperor. But all of the aforementioned titles (including Austrian Emperor) are just fantasy titles which don´t even make sense, it´s the same as somebody would have called himself "Tenno of Meckelnburg" or "Pharao of Saxony".
@@kodor1146 So you deny that the subjects of the Austria-Hungarian empire ,in German, referred to their emperor as "Kaiser" which is all I was trying to say - after all I have been to the Kaisergruft (Imperial crypt) in the Capuchin convent in Vienna and here most of the Habsburg Kaisers are buried including post 1806 ones like Francis and Franz Josef. Whether or not it was a fantasy title is totally besides the point. English is selective in referring to foreign potentates - in some examples as with shah, sultan, maharajah, czar and (Prussian) Kaiser, the correct untranslated title is used but for most not -other wise we would be talking about, the rey of Spain, the re of Italy, the roi of France, the kong of Denmark, the wang of China ad infinitum!
“That moment is arguably the greatest calamity in human history”. Bang on! This has been my take on WW1 for some time. Though more lives were lost and many more cities etc destroyed in WW2 we must conclude that the seeds of all that were sewn in 1914 not in the 1930’s.
Without WW1 there would be no communism in Russia and probably not in China. Russia and China could've been two perfectly normal and modern countries today...😢
You two are a wonderful team. the ways you both play on each other to bring the fine points behind the road to WW1 and the whys the war came about are super!!! Thank You both!
I have been listening to the pod for a while and now can put a face to it. I would have you take this as a compliment. You two have the best emoji faces I have ever seen. Angelic and wise. Angular and then distinctly not angular. A scoop of vanilla ice cream with kind eyes.
Great stuff - thank you for this very detailed and balanced analysis! I'm currently teaching a course on the literature of the First World War and will be recommending your podcast to all my students.
38:18 I feel exactly the same way as The Kaiser sadly.. I dont think im alone in this feeling either in this generation and the next. We have no purpose. No hope. Just longing for when we did have it. I pray to God that this will change. But.. i do believe our generation were saceificial lambs.
"I think a curse should rest on me - because I love this war. I know it's smashing and shattering the lives of thousands every moment - and yet - I can't help it - I enjoy every second of it." - Winston Churchill Written to a friend during 1914-19 The Great War for Civilisation, I didn’t believe in it then and I believe in it less so now JRR Tolkien circa 1960s Personally I’m with Tolkien
I knew a very old man as a young woman. He used to write dogrell poetry (brilliantly) and sell anti-war religious tracts in the pubs in the town I grew up in. One day I asked why he did what he did. He sat down, and for a pint of Guinness told me about trench warfare in WWl. In the end, over many years, I got to become a friend of his. I used to spend Sunday afternoons in the local Royal British Legion Club with him and his mates. They had all died by the end of the 1990's. Three of them, who had never married mainly due to "shell shock," left me their medals when they died. I was also given a couple of dress uniforms. I donated them, with my notes of their war stories, to the local museum with all the handwritten notes i had made of their stories of their war and photos they had given me. Miraculously, while they had lost classrooms full of friends, these 5 had survived. I still pop in to see the display.
From the super interesting talk of these two great fellows , I get that with Kaiser Whilhelm , you never know when he is going to say something very sensible .
There was a good documentary on WW1 that showed that really most of the Power in Germany ; once War was decided passed to the military Ludendorff and Hindenburg . The democratic parliament was basically ignored , until they were forced to negotiate the Armistice .
@@AnthonyBrown12324and to avoid responsibility for the defeat of Germany te right wing and the German senior military promote the stab in the back myth that led us to the national socialists and the Austrian house painter.
@@AnthonyBrown12324 true _but_ Kaiser Willy set the political direction and had the veto up till the shooting started , so his incredible naivety and willful ignorance was still a - the - major factor.
@@AnthonyBrown12324 that´s not entirely true, though. Wilhelm, as the only person uniting the military and civil chain of command, held a potentially enormous amount of power. A power he at times wielded both before and after the start of the war. That being said, once the war started, Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg, the Imperial Chancellor managed to take control of the war effort fairly quickly, because everyone, at times even the Kaiser himself, realised that Wilhelm wasn´t competent enough to take matters into his own hands. However, as long as he still held his constitutional powers, the Kaiser ended up being the ultimate decision maker at the head of the German military and civil administration. Wilhelm could be threatened, persuaded etc., but they couldn´t make him do anything, so whenever somebody gained or lost his favour, it ended up having significant influence on the war effort. This is why the third OHL, made up of Ludendorff and Hindenburg, tried to turn the German Empire (at this point practically also including Austria-Hungary) into a military dictatorship, in which both the Kaiser and the civil administration could be omitted. Yet, Ludendorff only managed to acquire enough direct influence around December 1916/ January 1917.
There are two things you historians must correct public perception: 1) The causes of WWI and how the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand was just a catalyst; 2) How it was the 1930s deflation and not the 1920s hyperinflation that cause the nazis to rise to power.
Great pod guys. Please don't worry about working 6am-10pm like the Kaiser. I would prefer that you work less if that's what you want and put out podcasts at a slower rate
Been seeing every episode since I saw your first series on the french revolution. Great info ! And great humor! I'm probably Your biggest follower from India.
I remember seeing Dominic on an intelligence squared debate about wether Britain should’ve entered the war. He got cut off early but I remember thinking he made a strong case. Glad to see him back in the spotlight
Certainly the feeling among the upper class young men (who were the officers) felt that they had to get into the war ASAP, because they knew another war wouldn't be coming along soon......and hence the extremely high rate of officers killed. Leading to the "the temporary gentleman. "
Hungarian here, yes you butchered the name--used to it. A helpful guide, In Hungarian the accent is always on the first SYLlable. BTW, Maria Vetsera, Prince Rudy's "squeeze" was my great aunt. Love every subject that you cover in this podcat.
beautiful part! I don`t know why i found your channel just now. Keep up the great work. But don`t forget, that a lot of the scary methods mentioned on the arm of little Willy, where aplied by doctors which his mom Vicky brought into the court. ;) BTW: A wonderful Saxonian accent at the letter of Franz. I almost forget he was Austrian. :D
World War One was unleashed & gathered a deadly momenum that no one was able to predict. For the first time in history you had the ability to mobilize a massive army that you could keep feeding with fresh troops, that you could move rapidly, could keep fed & armed ad infinitum. Revolutions in industrial production, farming, communications such as railways, huge ships & telegraphs all came together into a conflgration that suddenly no one could stop from being carried along by.
Sure, all wars can be avoided. For example, if the Black Hand, who earlier had massacred the entire Serbian royal family, hadn't murderered the Archduke, this all could have been avoided.
The german ,,Stop in Belgrade‘‘- Proposal was great. But the Austrians wanted a great war with Serbia and France wanted war with Germany cause the wanted the Alsace back. And the President of France Poincare came from the Alsace and wanted this Territory back at all cost.
WW1 was avoidable, and once it started, it was containable, and once it had expanded, it could have been ended through negotiation. But nobody in power really wanted to stop the madness of all this. This is the real tragedy of WW1 - it was the first war between great powers that became a war of hate, of xenophobia. The wars of the 18th century, such as the War of Austrian Succession or the Seven Years' War, and even the Napoleonic Wars of the early 19th century, were all wars between monarchs, or at least between ruling aristocracies. They were not populist wars. The average English peasant, craftsman, shopkeeper or factory worker cared very little about the war with Napoleon, they were more concerned with day to day survival. Newspapers were read by the educated elite, not the public at large. By 1914 though, great power governments had become either democratic or semi-democratic. And the one truly authoritarian government, that of Russia, was poorly run, with a Tsar who lacked political common sense. The power of the media in 1914 had reached the working class, and whipped up the xenophobia, insisting on a war of revenge, a war of total victory and destruction of the enemy. WW1 was the beginning of the age of barbarism, that would culminate in Auschwitz and the atomic bomb explosion on Hiroshima.
Well, it's debatable, as you know, it was tense, and A-H Serbia had been on the brink of war for years before the actual War. There was a trade embargo placed on Serbia so when there was an incident when a peasant from Serbia tried to smuggle a [ig into occupied Bosnia and got caught, both armies took positions and during the "Pig Incident" we were an accidental shot away from starting the war early. it was a tense standoff but it was diplomatically solved at the end.Of course the Serbian people were celebrating when the Archduke was killed... Even if it started earlier, Russia would have supported Serbia so don't know how to contain it from then... But it would be a more interesting story with a moral, because we would be aware that the greatest war and human suffering until then was caused by as smuggled pig.. describes us humans pretty well...
True. The real tragedy of World War I was not that it started but that all sides, despite seeing that they would not reach their goals, continued the war for four years, ripping up a continent and a cvivilisation in the process.
@@timwright4676 Indeed that town already had the spa-quality in its name (as had Aachen or Aix-en-Provence) - the doubling though comes from the division of the Margraviate of Baden into two lines centred around the old Baden (Baden-Baden) and the other around Durlach. Durlach's suburbian palace Karlsruhe then became the capital of all of Baden.
Most informative and entertaining, as always! But, in addition, there already was a military defense pact between Austria-Hungary, Germany and Italy - didn't it play a part?
Since I never learn anything new watching these, I feel that the purpose of these is to put on in the car, fall asleep to, & cause a 12-car pile-up on the motorway that takes you home.
I've read the Black Lamb and the Grey Falcon by Rebecca West which covers a bit of this history and I've been to Sarajevo and visited the museum about the assassination. Your coverage of this has been very informative for me.
Dear Dominic, You talk about sailing the Baltic about the Kaisers cruise to the Norwegian fjords. I do not know if it sailed from Kiel to Norway through the Kiel canal or if it sailed through the Danish strait, but it was more a north sea or north Atlantic ocean journey than an Baltic one. Great channel by the way.
I have been listening to these chaps from remote northern Flinders Ranges in South Australia .. I enjoyed the humour of this pair of anglophiles .. wonderful
War occurred because the will for peace in the summer of 1914 faltered. In every other previous European crisis since the 1870s there was a peace/diplomatic conference to solve the issue. Had European powers held a conference in July/August to agree on sanctions against Serbia this whole thing would have been avoided. The biggest mystery for me is why nobody took this initiative as they had several times before. This is the key. A subtle shift in the balance between those that wanted to prevent war in Europe and those that wanted war took place. The death of Franz Ferdinand destroyed the peace party in the Austrian Hungarian court. Fair enough. But it doesn't explain why the peace/diplomacy parties failed simultaneously in Germany; Russia; France and Britain. And I suspect that it was a very near thing. Because the instinct to hold a conference was well established and had produced excellent results. For example did the British Foreign secretary Grey suggest a conference? He was an obvious choice to suggest it as Britain was a great power and officially on the fence. Other European powers would have had to respond diplomatically to such an initiative. Not pointing the finger as Grey was the last person responsible for the mess. But to me its an enduring mystery that diplomatic efforts to coordinate an agreed response to the assassination crisis were apparently stillborn. We note desperate measures by the Tsar and Kaiser to prevent the mess after their council of ministers/Military General staff had taken decisive decisions towards partial or full mobilization. But a two way exchange of plaintive telegrams was not a serious initiative but more about blame shifting for historical purposes. Had they been serious they would have called for a (1) conference preceded by a (2) cooling off. So again...why oh why did nobody formally propose a diplomatic conference. Or if somebody did; why was it ignored....or refused..
Was there a diplomatic conference when Empress Sissi was murdered or Alexander II? The archduke wasn't even a full heir as his marriage got rejected by the Austrian emperor
@2adamast nonsense points. He was the heir and was murdered in a plot by a foreign government's deep state military called the Black Hand. Who had already wiped out their own royal family. If you can't tell the difference between that and ordinary terrorism then you need help.
From 24 July 1914 it appears that the British Foreign Secretary Sir Edward Grey did indeed attempt to organise an international peace conference. France agreed to his proposal, Germany refused.
There were voices for peace! For example read about Rosa Luxemburg and what happend to her and Liebknecht and all the "Liberals" of the German Left and why there was the Split in the SPD. All of which should sound very familiar in 2024.....
Wilhelm’s arm paralysis wasn’t necessarily caused by doctors’ panic during his breech delivery. Before C-sections were routine, breech deliveries were quite dangerous as the baby’s head (and biggest part) would be last to deliver, and a baby hung up by the head (alongside a compressed umbilical cord) would quickly asphyxiate. Brachial plexus injuries like Wilhelm’s were often the result of the traction on the baby’s neck necessary to complete the delivery and save its life. The business with the slaughtered hares, now, THAT was nuts.
When Thomas Mann heard about the declaration of war, he confided to his diary that had Leo Tolstoy still been alive, none of the great powers would have DARED to go to war. Just the great man's presence would have shamed them.
One might also note that the Germans had standardized on the voice powered telephone, which had a maximum range of 60 kilometers. Although a telegraph can send information slower, it can range much farther. This German "advanced technology" gave an assurance that the German 1st and 2nd Army groups would be out of touch a few days after the war starts. Hence von Bulow's decision to turn to the inside of the Paris, instead of outside, remained unknown for several days to German high command.
Everybody always says that Austro.Hungary was failing, falling behind... That is only true relatively speaking. The economy was actually growing fairly nicely, and infrastructure was being built, step by step. If you travel to the former parts of the empire, in many places this was, economically and culturally, something of a golden age, especially in the eastern parts.
But point still stands that A-H as a hole was barely a Great Power at this point, decentralised, pretty backwards in terms of weaker industry than Germany, UK or France - I would say they had better industry then Russia as they barely statrted to industrialise and were in process, but with time they could lag behind Russia as well. And as it was later shown their infrastructure was a mess as it was too decentralised, army was outdated and multiethnicity was also a problem - where there were national tensions. To add to that it was Dual Monarchy, so they still had to balance things around Germans and Hungarians - Hungarians not wanting to loose influence.
It reminded me of A-level history lessons in the 1970s and AJP Taylor. My views have evolved. Under Bismarck’s constitution, the Kaiser was in charge of foreign policy and the military. However, the army had marginalised him by 1914 and didn’t take him seriously. A military dictatorship ran Germany during the war. Moltke was the war’s real architect. He wanted to crush Russia before it became too powerful. It had nothing to do with Belgium, France or even Britain. The two countries shared a long border in Poland. Russia had a large army which was rapidly modernising. Moltke wanted a preemptive strike, unfortunately for Germany, the Schlieffen Plan didn’t work. Moltke was encouraging the Austrians to beat up Serbia. Moltke didn't care if Britain joined the war because it had a tiny army. Had Britain stayed out, the war would probably have played out like the Franco-Prussian War, the Germans would have grabbed some territory in France and then left. It would then focus on defeating Russia. The participation of the British Empire turned it into a total war, which was the only way Britain could win. A total war was disastrous for Britain. I have lived in the US for 25 years, where they live and breathe great power politics. The war was a disaster for Britain. The British Empire was the world’s largest economy until 1916. The war severely weakened Britain. The Americans took over as the West’s leading power. The Victorians were pragmatic and understood geopolitics, unlike the Liberals in 1914 and most British 20th-century politicians. Palmerston, Gladstone and Salisbury avoided fighting wars Britain could not win easily. Gladstone stayed out of the Franco-Prussian War after making a deal with Bismarck. He did not care about France and believed it was not in Britain’s national interest to fight the Germans. Britain would have avoided the war had Salisbury still been PM. Grey hated the Germans and found them rude, he was an idiot. Churchill liked a good war, both were arguing in the Cabinet that France had to be protected at all costs, which was bonkers.
Agreed. Also, Moltke diluted the Schlieffen plan in Belgium/France. Churchill was an absolute maniac war hawk who also had international banking financiers. I see WW1 as a war of nationalism vs internationalism.
Austrian government mistake sending Franz Ferdinand to Sarajevo on a risk basis. However, rather than admit the mistake, the government made an even worse mistake, declaring war. The government had no easy decisions, but the second mistake reduced Austria to an impoverished republic.
Nobody was going to stand still for a major head of state getting zapped, plus his wife, by a vicious little foreign nobody from a country they already had their eye on. Everything about that went completely against Victorian age values, never mind the pride of a great power.
@MM22966 very well put, and academics say it still, I quote, Franz Ferdinands fateful trip to Sarajevo. The reality however is that it was his fatal trip to Sarajevo, a miscalculation of the risks involved, and diplomatic culture required Germany to restrain the Austrian gov, since London had more in mind than the lives of a few elites and Austrian pride, Austria began a world, sufficient reason to stand still.
In Serbia there is a belief that government had warned Austria that thare is a plan for assassination but they were too dumb to believe it. Even that day first attempt by bomb was unsuccessful but Ferdinand still risk and jist by driver's mistake he got killed by Gavrilo Princip
The borders in Europe were fluid. The Balkans had become highly unstable after the Ottomans had been driven out. France was still sore over losing the Alsace. The generals had railways, breech loading guns, mortars and cannons to experiment with. The admirals had battleships, submarines and airships to experiment with. Behind the lines they now had big factories to churn out munitions. The military were keen to try out the new weapons, strategies and tactics. There hadn't been a big modern war since the 1860's and 70's. The monarchies and generals dressed in colourful uniforms but their medals were from long long ago. The young officer class were frustrated with peace that provided no chance to make a name for themselves. They were envious of Britain's military adventures in Africa. They wanted to see some action like the young Churchill did. The new moving pictures in cinemas were showing an exciting world of rapid movement and fights over matters of honour. A few big battles in 1914 would satisfy the thrill seekers and resolve the border disputes. Hoorah!!!
I would have to disagree with you on Germany being envious of Britain's military actions in Africa. Britain's army was so small compared to Germany that when asked what they would do if Britain lands in Europe, they would arrest them. As in, their army is so small they wouldn't need the army, but the police would be enough to handle it. Britain is a naval power. It was not a major land power at the start of ww1 compared to Germany, France, or Russia.
Anatol Rappaport did, IIRC, an analysis that shows that Germany had more trade with what we would call 'defense contractors' than they did with France, so Germany had incentives to go to war with France. Britain had far more trade with France than with Germany, so they had incentives to take the side of France. Similar analysis made of other nations had similar results, completely dictating which side that each nation took in the war. The timing was set by the completion of the Kiel Canal on one side, and the state of the Russian military reform. All the other nations beside Germany had a number of mobilization plans, but Germany only had one- to Mobilize the Army and invade France through Belgium. The initial assembly areas of some divisions were actually inside Belgium, dependent on the rapid advance of earlier mobilizing units.
There were in fact several German "colonies" in Brazil, much before the Kaiser's time. For instance, my hometown, Petrópolis, in the range of hills north of Rio, was a 19th century immigration experiment mostly from what today is Germany. My father, who was born in the late 1930s, once commented that in his childhood the German language could still be widely heard in the streets.
Christopher Clark's basic premise in "The Sleepwalkers" is not really that different from that put forward by Lloyd George in his post war memoirs when he says that Europe "slithered over the edge" into war. The basic idea being that nobody actively sought a war. The one country that could have ended the July Crisis at any point was Germany. If Germany had told her ally in Vienna not to react militarily to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand and his wife things would have been differnt. The key debate is over the reasons why Germany acted as she did. Was it because Germany saw an opportunity to launch an aggressive war an a favourable moment? (The Fritz Fischer thesis).Or was it because those taking the decisions in Berlin were totally incompetent and clearly not up to the task of handling a rapidly developing situation?
What do German archives and memoires say on this issue ? Would they have taken good care of their archives or explained it in their memoires if it gave a positive view on their past decisions and actions ?
Why couldn't the two of you be my history teachers when I was school? I would ace every test, every episode feels like a coffee conversation between friends that I can just pick up a mug and join. If only I could tell my ten year old self that its not the subject its the teacher and years later I will be gobbling historical podcasts like a mad woman!
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My grandmothers elder sister was born right in the midst of a giant military exercise of the German army that took place ten years r so before the beginning of WWI. But when word reached the Kaiser Wilhelm II. who was present in a village nearby, that there was a woman lying in heavy labor, he immediately gave order to halt the entire manoeuver and the big guns who had been busy shooting the whole day all went quiet, hundreds of thousands of officers and men stopped in their tracks, laid down their weapons, to patiently wait in silence. It was not until the message came in, that everything at last had gone well with that childbirth, and positive confirmation was given to the emperor, that both the mother and the newborn baby were in good health and in safe condition, with all the necessairy care for them at hand, that the military exercise was allowed to continue.
In honor of this personal intervention on behalf of an ordinairy German woman, who was the wife of a veterinarian, the baby girl was given the name Wilhelmine and I am happy to tell you and the world of this act of personal kindness towards a member of my family by the German Emperor Wilhelm II. May he rest in peace.
That's kind of hard to believe, or he is just a hypocrite. He's ok with sacrificing millions of his young men in war, and the women and children struggling to survive with little food. But this one baby being born during a military exercise is so important that everything comes to a hault until this random lady gives birth? That's an incompetent leader making ridiculous decisions. A lady giving birth should be the least of his concerns, while the decisions he is making will affect millions.
What a lovely event to pass on to history. Thank you ❤ Now I've heard of the awful birth experience for Wilhelm and how it led to his torture as a child, it makes sense.
Thank you again. Also nice to hear a story about a woman and child. Almost all (political) history is male. Understandably, as women were excluded from that sphere.
Eda es una interesante pieza desconocida de la historia, mil gracias por compartirla.
Shows he was entitled to a degree few can fathom, and that he wanted War to make him feel whole.
The two of you look exactly like I’ve imagined, after the hundreds of hours of listening to you while working outside in the east coast Canadian weather. You two have gotten me through a lot of long days! Thank you very much, enjoying the longer episodes and series lately! The Longer the Better it gets! Thank you fellas
Yes, Dominic is well on the way to looking like Churchill but Tom has some way to go to look like Alexander!
they both want to be Wilhelm
Haha I donno if that first sentence is a compliment or not
it seems im on the opposite because i was shocked by it!
The Kaiser is the patron saint of this podcast, he's in like literally every episode, he's such a comic figure, at least before his exile.
You mean the Mad Woodchopper of Doorn was not also comical?
The Kaiser and Captain Bentine are co-patron saints of the podcast!
Great episode! Love the extended length. Thank you both for your diligent work :)
Thank you !
They also besides their obvious historical knowledge have a great charisma and wonderful sense of light humour.
Dominic has long been a favourite British social historian of mine.
Tom’s brother James Holland along with Al Murray are two other great historians who give a fascinating but enjoyable view of history.
Can’t wait to hear the episode where the ostrich is shot 😉
Determined to compete with Dan Carlin? LOL
@@tommonk7651 IMHO they're much better than Carlin, more entertaining even too. I don't appreciate how he's always trying to be so edgy all the time.
@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat They are very good. I'm just referencing the length of Carlin's episodes.
Brilliant quote
‘It’s not that there are too few facts available but that there are too many’
Also works for the world of the internet and social media we now live in sadly 😔
Love the banter between them and they make history fun. My favourite podcast and never to be beaten!
Thank you !
Sadly too many history teachers are not like these two.
@@track1949 Agreed. A happy few are -- and now the rest can just model themselves on these two!
First time encountering them. Just loving the depth of erudition and learning and the way they convey these issues in such an engaging way. Fascinating stuff.
Franz Josef had already been goaded into two disastrous wars in which he believed he was in the right - in 1859 and 1866. The religious sense had always been a part of Habsburg policy. An excellent episode btw.
Thank you !
I think he always convinced himself that every war was existential and about dynastic survival.... in other words to lose a war or fail to fight one would be disastrous for his regime. The "lose a war" part is obvious.... but the "fail to fight one" was the fatal error.
With a persistent war mongerer like Chief of staff Conrad Von Hotzendorff demanding war and the moderating voice of Franz Ferdinand removed from the scene he was fatally influenced towards war. His circle of advisors lost the principal voice for peace whose ghost now arguably demanded revenge.
@@fiachramaccana280He's so paranoid. It's like he thinks they want to break up the Austro-Hungarian Empire for some reason... 🤔
One wonders what would have happened if he died three years earlier than he did, in 1913.
Top bants - top entertainment - top information. How can educative podcasts be so entertaining? Hats off to you both.
"top entertainment", indeed!
Low bar indeed for bants.
come across this by accident and love it . Subscribed.
38:30 is best ad read ever. 7 seconds and could not have been better placed. Well done.
So entertaining. I've only listened to these two on BBC sounds and I always love when you can put a name to a face. They both look younger than I expected, from my minds eye and Tom has the greater voice to face ratio expectation. Usually I'm hiking or in my tent at the end of a days walking listening to this.
Very enjoyable presentation.
The downside of learning history (or The Shock of History, as Dominique Venner called it) is that pretty much everything in it could have been avoided.
The injury to the Kaiser is called shoulder dystocia and is a common complication during delivery, particularly before cesarian section was common. I doubt the doctors were particularly negligent just because he had this injury.
Relaxing, jovial, "light but serious", intriguing, entertaining and so informative and educational! You guys are great.
Thank you
I am delighted you are delving into WWI
Thank you !
Great, great series. Magnificent discussion, thank you. And for even those that dread the outbreak, probably their conceptions of the scale of the coming horrors, are bound within the limits of Napoleonic and Russo-Japanese wars.
Those last 2 lines of Wilfred Owen's poem still give me chills more than 50 years after I first read it. Thank you so much for these programs
Just want to say how much I love this show. It’s just fantastic and both speakers are simply incredible and fluid and so well prepared. Love it so much. Listen to it all the time while cycling to and from work in Shenzhen, China.
It's so nice to see an adult history conversation on UA-cam for a change.
Best History Podcast! Thanks from Canada!
What probably a lot of English speaking people don't realize is that in German the emperor of Austria-Hungary was called Kaiser as well - indeed as the successor to the Holy Roman emperors he was the original Kaiser and the Prussian one was an upstart. I think there was actually a song at the time -"There is only one Imperial city / there's only one Vienna!"
Well no, Kaiser is simply the german word for emperor. They held two different imperial titles and the one held by Franz Josef did not include the other german realms as not only had the title "King of the Germans" become defunct since the destruction of the HRE but his Title of Kaiser only refered to the lands within the Austrian parts of the Habsburg empire. It is hard to claim that the Prussian ruling house of Germany were upstarts as technicaly they had not claimed the original title meant for the rulers of Germany proper, Their current titles were either held since the 1300's, 16/1700's or Created in 1871. And of course the Austrians might feel like the Prussians were upstarts but the truth is they would never have united Germany so it is rather hard to feel sympathy for people crying about a title they never even would have had.
@@christianandersson4345 But the Austro-Hungarian ruler was referred to as the kaiser by his own subjects was he not? -which was the point I made originally. In English it is an extremely handy thing to refer to him as an emperor and the German one as the Kaiser but both were Kaisers were they not.? And of course the word "Czar" and "Tsar" are merely the Russian forms of "Kaiser' -and it is merely a handy thing to keep at as such and not translate it as "emperor." Funny that we don't do the same thing for other potentates like the emperors of China and Japan but we did it for Iran (Shah) and Abyssinia (Negus.)
@@kaloarepo288 Yes that is correct sorry if i missed your point. I think it might really have to do with history painting both the leadership of Germany and Russia as a sort of backwards historical villain that was led more by an instiution than a man or indivudal. The Kaiser does invoke a certain feeling i suspect in many that simply emperor does not. Or it could simply have to do with the greater focus placed on these rulers in western teaching, If i say Kaiser or Tzar you would instantly know what nation i am speaking of, if i said Ten'nō most would not. Or it could be other factors but an interesting point nonetheless.
"What probably a lot of English speaking people don't realize is that in German the emperor of Austria-Hungary was called Kaiser as well - indeed as the successor to the Holy Roman emperors he was the original Kaiser"
That´s not really true. Basically it´s not true at all. Kaiser means somebody who receives this title from the pope in Rome. This is what set him apart for centuries from all the other rulers in Europe. This and only this made a king becoming Emperor. The conferment of the imperial dignity by the head of the Catholic Church was simply a basic requirement. Without this one couldn´t be Emperor.
In 1806 the last German-Roman Emperor Franz II vacated this title and made himself Emperor of Austria instead which is nothing else than a fantasy title and therefore the same poppyckock as "German Emperor" what the Hohenzollern were or Emperor of the French what Napoleon called himself or Emperess of India what the Brits did. In the 18th century all of a sudden every Tom, Dick and Harry called himself Emperor. But all of the aforementioned titles (including Austrian Emperor) are just fantasy titles which don´t even make sense, it´s the same as somebody would have called himself "Tenno of Meckelnburg" or "Pharao of Saxony".
@@kodor1146 So you deny that the subjects of the Austria-Hungarian empire ,in German, referred to their emperor as "Kaiser" which is all I was trying to say - after all I have been to the Kaisergruft (Imperial crypt) in the Capuchin convent in Vienna and here most of the Habsburg Kaisers are buried including post 1806 ones like Francis and Franz Josef. Whether or not it was a fantasy title is totally besides the point. English is selective in referring to foreign potentates - in some examples as with shah, sultan, maharajah, czar and (Prussian) Kaiser, the correct untranslated title is used but for most not -other wise we would be talking about, the rey of Spain, the re of Italy, the roi of France, the kong of Denmark, the wang of China ad infinitum!
“That moment is arguably the greatest calamity in human history”. Bang on! This has been my take on WW1 for some time. Though more lives were lost and many more cities etc destroyed in WW2 we must conclude that the seeds of all that were sewn in 1914 not in the 1930’s.
Without WW1 there would be no communism in Russia and probably not in China. Russia and China could've been two perfectly normal and modern countries today...😢
This is great, perfect for those long drives between worksites. Subscribed!!
Great stuff, guys. Witty, informative, and full of interesting titbits.
Fascinating discussion! I am so sad I won’t be able to see you while you are in the U.S.! (A fan from Kansas.)
Easy. Someone could have fed Archie Duke. Then he wouldn’t have needed to shoot the ostrich if he wasn’t hungry.
can never go wrong with BA references
Got it
Excellent reference 😂
Lol you beat me to it 😃👍
So the poor old ostrich died for nothing!
You two are a wonderful team. the ways you both play on each other to bring the fine points behind the road to WW1 and the whys the war came about are super!!! Thank You both!
I have been listening to the pod for a while and now can put a face to it. I would have you take this as a compliment. You two have the best emoji faces I have ever seen. Angelic and wise. Angular and then distinctly not angular. A scoop of vanilla ice cream with kind eyes.
Tom's sudden yet dramatic voice change during his insane impression of Franz Joseph around 55:00 was legit the funniest shit ever 😂 LMAO! Thanks gents
Dom was also laughing in the background. Lol I personally loved the special effects on the video.
just brilliant 😂😂😂
Have started listening to you on Spotify and ended up here, amazing work and content guys! Kia ora from Aotearoa..
Thank you !
Great stuff - thank you for this very detailed and balanced analysis! I'm currently teaching a course on the literature of the First World War and will be recommending your podcast to all my students.
38:18
I feel exactly the same way as The Kaiser sadly..
I dont think im alone in this feeling either in this generation and the next.
We have no purpose.
No hope.
Just longing for when we did have it.
I pray to God that this will change.
But.. i do believe our generation were saceificial lambs.
I love the edit job at the start of the episode!
Great work everyone at TRiH!
Thank you greatly! for the amazing and free education!!!
So good. Like this boys.
First time listener.
Love the banter you two have . Was laughing to myself listening to you two .
Brilliant podcast, gentlemen!
Thank you, this was a lot of fun
Thank you for helping me on the path of light and frivolous reading. The podcast is a nice accompaniment.
"I think a curse should rest on me - because I love this war. I know it's smashing and shattering the lives of thousands every moment - and yet - I can't help it - I enjoy every second of it." - Winston Churchill
Written to a friend during 1914-19
The Great War for Civilisation, I didn’t believe in it then and I believe in it less so now
JRR Tolkien circa 1960s
Personally I’m with Tolkien
Amen
I knew a very old man as a young woman. He used to write dogrell poetry (brilliantly) and sell anti-war religious tracts in the pubs in the town I grew up in. One day I asked why he did what he did. He sat down, and for a pint of Guinness told me about trench warfare in WWl. In the end, over many years, I got to become a friend of his. I used to spend Sunday afternoons in the local Royal British Legion Club with him and his mates. They had all died by the end of the 1990's. Three of them, who had never married mainly due to "shell shock," left me their medals when they died. I was also given a couple of dress uniforms. I donated them, with my notes of their war stories, to the local museum with all the handwritten notes i had made of their stories of their war and photos they had given me. Miraculously, while they had lost classrooms full of friends, these 5 had survived. I still pop in to see the display.
@@jessicarowley9631😢
And people still think Churchill was a hero. He was the exact opposite, the destroyer of the British empire.
I'm curious when he wrote this. Was it when he was on the Western Front or was it when he was safely at home in Parliament?
Love to listen to your podcasts, great content. A Pole living in Spain 👋
Oh man this one will be a great one. Absolutely Love this podcast I learn so much. Thank you guys!
I always listen to you guys while I’m working… I didn’t know that you have a UA-cam channel. Lols!
From the super interesting talk of these two great fellows , I get that with Kaiser Whilhelm , you never know when he is going to say something very sensible .
There was a good documentary on WW1 that showed that really most of the Power in Germany ; once War was decided passed to the military Ludendorff and Hindenburg . The democratic parliament was basically ignored , until they were forced to negotiate the Armistice .
@@AnthonyBrown12324and to avoid responsibility for the defeat of Germany te right wing and the German senior military promote the stab in the back myth that led us to the national socialists and the Austrian house painter.
@@AnthonyBrown12324 true _but_ Kaiser Willy set the political direction and had the veto up till the shooting started , so his incredible naivety and willful ignorance was still a - the - major factor.
@ Yes , that is true
@@AnthonyBrown12324 that´s not entirely true, though. Wilhelm, as the only person uniting the military and civil chain of command, held a potentially enormous amount of power. A power he at times wielded both before and after the start of the war.
That being said, once the war started, Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg, the Imperial Chancellor managed to take control of the war effort fairly quickly, because everyone, at times even the Kaiser himself, realised that Wilhelm wasn´t competent enough to take matters into his own hands. However, as long as he still held his constitutional powers, the Kaiser ended up being the ultimate decision maker at the head of the German military and civil administration. Wilhelm could be threatened, persuaded etc., but they couldn´t make him do anything, so whenever somebody gained or lost his favour, it ended up having significant influence on the war effort. This is why the third OHL, made up of Ludendorff and Hindenburg, tried to turn the German Empire (at this point practically also including Austria-Hungary) into a military dictatorship, in which both the Kaiser and the civil administration could be omitted.
Yet, Ludendorff only managed to acquire enough direct influence around December 1916/ January 1917.
I love Tom's idea. More vignettes!
Loved the intro guys.
There are two things you historians must correct public perception: 1) The causes of WWI and how the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand was just a catalyst; 2) How it was the 1930s deflation and not the 1920s hyperinflation that cause the nazis to rise to power.
i give thunbs up the moment i hear the theme music. This is my comfort channel. 🙌
Thank you !
"Is there a spa?" I was saying it at the exact same time.
These are just fantastic thank you for this hello from Brazil 🇧🇷
You guys are just fantastic hello from Brazil 🇧🇷
Great pod guys. Please don't worry about working 6am-10pm like the Kaiser. I would prefer that you work less if that's what you want and put out podcasts at a slower rate
Been seeing every episode since I saw your first series on the french revolution. Great info ! And great humor! I'm probably Your biggest follower from India.
Thank you !
I remember seeing Dominic on an intelligence squared debate about wether Britain should’ve entered the war. He got cut off early but I remember thinking he made a strong case. Glad to see him back in the spotlight
This was great, many revelations to me, thank you
Excellent. I learned a lot from the nuances in the details...
Thank you !
Certainly the feeling among the upper class young men (who were the officers) felt that they had to get into the war ASAP, because they knew another war wouldn't be coming along soon......and hence the extremely high rate of officers killed. Leading to the "the temporary gentleman. "
I can’t find the previous series on the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. Could someone please let me know where I can find it? 🙏
Hungarian here, yes you butchered the name--used to it. A helpful guide, In Hungarian the accent is always on the first SYLlable. BTW, Maria Vetsera, Prince Rudy's "squeeze" was my great aunt. Love every subject that you cover in this podcat.
beautiful part! I don`t know why i found your channel just now. Keep up the great work.
But don`t forget, that a lot of the scary methods mentioned on the arm of little Willy, where aplied by doctors which his mom Vicky brought into the court. ;)
BTW: A wonderful Saxonian accent at the letter of Franz. I almost forget he was Austrian. :D
World War One was unleashed & gathered a deadly momenum that no one was able to predict. For the first time in history you had the ability to mobilize a massive army that you could keep feeding with fresh troops, that you could move rapidly, could keep fed & armed ad infinitum. Revolutions in industrial production, farming, communications such as railways, huge ships & telegraphs all came together into a conflgration that suddenly no one could stop from being carried along by.
Brilliantly and delightfully presented window into the tragicomedy of history
All wars can be avoided. But there are enough people who want them to happen and can make them happen.
Sure, all wars can be avoided. For example, if the Black Hand, who earlier had massacred the entire Serbian royal family, hadn't murderered the Archduke, this all could have been avoided.
The german ,,Stop in Belgrade‘‘- Proposal was great. But the Austrians wanted a great war with Serbia and France wanted war with Germany cause the wanted the Alsace back. And the President of France Poincare came from the Alsace and wanted this Territory back at all cost.
Tribal identity is a powerful emotion that lies dormant until times of stress. Then it overwhelms all differences with fellow tribe members.
WW1 was avoidable, and once it started, it was containable, and once it had expanded, it could have been ended through negotiation. But nobody in power really wanted to stop the madness of all this. This is the real tragedy of WW1 - it was the first war between great powers that became a war of hate, of xenophobia. The wars of the 18th century, such as the War of Austrian Succession or the Seven Years' War, and even the Napoleonic Wars of the early 19th century, were all wars between monarchs, or at least between ruling aristocracies. They were not populist wars. The average English peasant, craftsman, shopkeeper or factory worker cared very little about the war with Napoleon, they were more concerned with day to day survival. Newspapers were read by the educated elite, not the public at large. By 1914 though, great power governments had become either democratic or semi-democratic. And the one truly authoritarian government, that of Russia, was poorly run, with a Tsar who lacked political common sense. The power of the media in 1914 had reached the working class, and whipped up the xenophobia, insisting on a war of revenge, a war of total victory and destruction of the enemy. WW1 was the beginning of the age of barbarism, that would culminate in Auschwitz and the atomic bomb explosion on Hiroshima.
Nobody in power wanted to stop the madness of all this… deja vu in Ukraine
Well, it's debatable, as you know, it was tense, and A-H Serbia had been on the brink of war for years before the actual War. There was a trade embargo placed on Serbia so when there was an incident when a peasant from Serbia tried to smuggle a [ig into occupied Bosnia and got caught, both armies took positions and during the "Pig Incident" we were an accidental shot away from starting the war early. it was a tense standoff but it was diplomatically solved at the end.Of course the Serbian people were celebrating when the Archduke was killed... Even if it started earlier, Russia would have supported Serbia so don't know how to contain it from then... But it would be a more interesting story with a moral, because we would be aware that the greatest war and human suffering until then was caused by as smuggled pig.. describes us humans pretty well...
You mean the napoleonic peninsular war (1M death) or russian campaign (1M death) were about monarchs?
True. The real tragedy of World War I was not that it started but that all sides, despite seeing that they would not reach their goals, continued the war for four years, ripping up a continent and a cvivilisation in the process.
@@str.77 I entirely agree. But WW1 was unprecedented in it scope, it was the first truly 'total' war, a war of mass economic production for war.
Incredible podcast, please dont be afraid to revist some old episodes now you have cameras
Also longer the better in episode length!
The German word "Bad" (literally "bath") in the name of a town means that it is a spa.
As in Baden Baden!
@@timwright4676 Indeed that town already had the spa-quality in its name (as had Aachen or Aix-en-Provence) - the doubling though comes from the division of the Margraviate of Baden into two lines centred around the old Baden (Baden-Baden) and the other around Durlach. Durlach's suburbian palace Karlsruhe then became the capital of all of Baden.
Most informative and entertaining, as always! But, in addition, there already was a military defense pact between Austria-Hungary, Germany and Italy - didn't it play a part?
Since I never learn anything new watching these, I feel that the purpose of these is to put on in the car, fall asleep to, & cause a 12-car pile-up on the motorway that takes you home.
I've read the Black Lamb and the Grey Falcon by Rebecca West which covers a bit of this history and I've been to Sarajevo and visited the museum about the assassination. Your coverage of this has been very informative for me.
Thanks guys that was fantastic!
Dear Dominic,
You talk about sailing the Baltic about the Kaisers cruise to the Norwegian fjords. I do not know if it sailed from Kiel to Norway through the Kiel canal or if it sailed through the Danish strait, but it was more a north sea or north Atlantic ocean journey than an Baltic one.
Great channel by the way.
I have been listening to these chaps from remote northern Flinders Ranges in South Australia ..
I enjoyed the humour of this pair of anglophiles .. wonderful
Can someone give me a link to the 4 part series that talks about the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand? I can't find it. 😢
Best history talk anywhere. 👍🎬
War occurred because the will for peace in the summer of 1914 faltered. In every other previous European crisis since the 1870s there was a peace/diplomatic conference to solve the issue. Had European powers held a conference in July/August to agree on sanctions against Serbia this whole thing would have been avoided. The biggest mystery for me is why nobody took this initiative as they had several times before. This is the key. A subtle shift in the balance between those that wanted to prevent war in Europe and those that wanted war took place.
The death of Franz Ferdinand destroyed the peace party in the Austrian Hungarian court. Fair enough. But it doesn't explain why the peace/diplomacy parties failed simultaneously in Germany; Russia; France and Britain. And I suspect that it was a very near thing. Because the instinct to hold a conference was well established and had produced excellent results.
For example did the British Foreign secretary Grey suggest a conference? He was an obvious choice to suggest it as Britain was a great power and officially on the fence. Other European powers would have had to respond diplomatically to such an initiative. Not pointing the finger as Grey was the last person responsible for the mess. But to me its an enduring mystery that diplomatic efforts to coordinate an agreed response to the assassination crisis were apparently stillborn.
We note desperate measures by the Tsar and Kaiser to prevent the mess after their council of ministers/Military General staff had taken decisive decisions towards partial or full mobilization. But a two way exchange of plaintive telegrams was not a serious initiative but more about blame shifting for historical purposes. Had they been serious they would have called for a (1) conference preceded by a (2) cooling off.
So again...why oh why did nobody formally propose a diplomatic conference. Or if somebody did; why was it ignored....or refused..
Greed for new imperial territory and markets, sorry for short Leninist answer
Was there a diplomatic conference when Empress Sissi was murdered or Alexander II? The archduke wasn't even a full heir as his marriage got rejected by the Austrian emperor
@2adamast nonsense points. He was the heir and was murdered in a plot by a foreign government's deep state military called the Black Hand. Who had already wiped out their own royal family.
If you can't tell the difference between that and ordinary terrorism then you need help.
From 24 July 1914 it appears that the British Foreign Secretary Sir Edward Grey did indeed attempt to organise an international peace conference. France agreed to his proposal, Germany refused.
There were voices for peace! For example read about Rosa Luxemburg and what happend to her and Liebknecht and all the "Liberals" of the German Left and why there was the Split in the SPD. All of which should sound very familiar in 2024.....
Wilhelm’s arm paralysis wasn’t necessarily caused by doctors’ panic during his breech delivery. Before C-sections were routine, breech deliveries were quite dangerous as the baby’s head (and biggest part) would be last to deliver, and a baby hung up by the head (alongside a compressed umbilical cord) would quickly asphyxiate. Brachial plexus injuries like Wilhelm’s were often the result of the traction on the baby’s neck necessary to complete the delivery and save its life.
The business with the slaughtered hares, now, THAT was nuts.
When Thomas Mann heard about the declaration of war, he confided to his diary that had Leo Tolstoy still been alive, none of the great powers would have DARED to go to war. Just the great man's presence would have shamed them.
Well I'm sleepwalking over a precipice. A triumph of an episode. Listener from New Zealand
Thank you !
Where is the previous series on the causes of WWI? I don’t see a playlist for it in the various playlists.
One might also note that the Germans had standardized on the voice powered telephone, which had a maximum range of 60 kilometers. Although a telegraph can send information slower, it can range much farther. This German "advanced technology" gave an assurance that the German 1st and 2nd Army groups would be out of touch a few days after the war starts. Hence von Bulow's decision to turn to the inside of the Paris, instead of outside, remained unknown for several days to German high command.
Great topic
I loved this pod cast. But certainly it is not a revelation that Germany was not the bad guy in WW1. I look forward to your Russia episode.
Everybody always says that Austro.Hungary was failing, falling behind... That is only true relatively speaking. The economy was actually growing fairly nicely, and infrastructure was being built, step by step. If you travel to the former parts of the empire, in many places this was, economically and culturally, something of a golden age, especially in the eastern parts.
But point still stands that A-H as a hole was barely a Great Power at this point, decentralised, pretty backwards in terms of weaker industry than Germany, UK or France - I would say they had better industry then Russia as they barely statrted to industrialise and were in process, but with time they could lag behind Russia as well. And as it was later shown their infrastructure was a mess as it was too decentralised, army was outdated and multiethnicity was also a problem - where there were national tensions. To add to that it was Dual Monarchy, so they still had to balance things around Germans and Hungarians - Hungarians not wanting to loose influence.
It's really funny how they talk about Bad Ischl, because I've been there two years ago, and the place literally looks exactly like they describe it.
It reminded me of A-level history lessons in the 1970s and AJP Taylor. My views have evolved. Under Bismarck’s constitution, the Kaiser was in charge of foreign policy and the military. However, the army had marginalised him by 1914 and didn’t take him seriously. A military dictatorship ran Germany during the war. Moltke was the war’s real architect. He wanted to crush Russia before it became too powerful. It had nothing to do with Belgium, France or even Britain. The two countries shared a long border in Poland. Russia had a large army which was rapidly modernising. Moltke wanted a preemptive strike, unfortunately for Germany, the Schlieffen Plan didn’t work. Moltke was encouraging the Austrians to beat up Serbia. Moltke didn't care if Britain joined the war because it had a tiny army. Had Britain stayed out, the war would probably have played out like the Franco-Prussian War, the Germans would have grabbed some territory in France and then left. It would then focus on defeating Russia. The participation of the British Empire turned it into a total war, which was the only way Britain could win. A total war was disastrous for Britain.
I have lived in the US for 25 years, where they live and breathe great power politics. The war was a disaster for Britain. The British Empire was the world’s largest economy until 1916. The war severely weakened Britain. The Americans took over as the West’s leading power. The Victorians were pragmatic and understood geopolitics, unlike the Liberals in 1914 and most British 20th-century politicians. Palmerston, Gladstone and Salisbury avoided fighting wars Britain could not win easily. Gladstone stayed out of the Franco-Prussian War after making a deal with Bismarck. He did not care about France and believed it was not in Britain’s national interest to fight the Germans. Britain would have avoided the war had Salisbury still been PM. Grey hated the Germans and found them rude, he was an idiot. Churchill liked a good war, both were arguing in the Cabinet that France had to be protected at all costs, which was bonkers.
Agreed. Also, Moltke diluted the Schlieffen plan in Belgium/France. Churchill was an absolute maniac war hawk who also had international banking financiers. I see WW1 as a war of nationalism vs internationalism.
Austrian government mistake sending Franz Ferdinand to Sarajevo on a risk basis. However, rather than admit the mistake, the government made an even worse mistake, declaring war. The government had no easy decisions, but the second mistake reduced Austria to an impoverished republic.
Nobody was going to stand still for a major head of state getting zapped, plus his wife, by a vicious little foreign nobody from a country they already had their eye on. Everything about that went completely against Victorian age values, never mind the pride of a great power.
@MM22966 very well put, and academics say it still, I quote, Franz Ferdinands fateful trip to Sarajevo.
The reality however is that it was his fatal trip to Sarajevo, a miscalculation of the risks involved, and diplomatic culture required Germany to restrain the Austrian gov, since London had more in mind than the lives of a few elites and Austrian pride, Austria began a world, sufficient reason to stand still.
In Serbia there is a belief that government had warned Austria that thare is a plan for assassination but they were too dumb to believe it. Even that day first attempt by bomb was unsuccessful but Ferdinand still risk and jist by driver's mistake he got killed by Gavrilo Princip
The borders in Europe were fluid. The Balkans had become highly unstable after the Ottomans had been driven out. France was still sore over losing the Alsace. The generals had railways, breech loading guns, mortars and cannons to experiment with. The admirals had battleships, submarines and airships to experiment with. Behind the lines they now had big factories to churn out munitions. The military were keen to try out the new weapons, strategies and tactics. There hadn't been a big modern war since the 1860's and 70's. The monarchies and generals dressed in colourful uniforms but their medals were from long long ago. The young officer class were frustrated with peace that provided no chance to make a name for themselves. They were envious of Britain's military adventures in Africa. They wanted to see some action like the young Churchill did. The new moving pictures in cinemas were showing an exciting world of rapid movement and fights over matters of honour. A few big battles in 1914 would satisfy the thrill seekers and resolve the border disputes. Hoorah!!!
I would have to disagree with you on Germany being envious of Britain's military actions in Africa. Britain's army was so small compared to Germany that when asked what they would do if Britain lands in Europe, they would arrest them. As in, their army is so small they wouldn't need the army, but the police would be enough to handle it. Britain is a naval power. It was not a major land power at the start of ww1 compared to Germany, France, or Russia.
Furthermore, Russia had been embarrassed by Japan and the Tsar needed to restore his prestige in war
Anatol Rappaport did, IIRC, an analysis that shows that Germany had more trade with what we would call 'defense contractors' than they did with France, so Germany had incentives to go to war with France. Britain had far more trade with France than with Germany, so they had incentives to take the side of France. Similar analysis made of other nations had similar results, completely dictating which side that each nation took in the war. The timing was set by the completion of the Kiel Canal on one side, and the state of the Russian military reform. All the other nations beside Germany had a number of mobilization plans, but Germany only had one- to Mobilize the Army and invade France through Belgium. The initial assembly areas of some divisions were actually inside Belgium, dependent on the rapid advance of earlier mobilizing units.
Tom, I liked your plan for the 26 episodes. Let's do that.
I'd really like a reading list in the video descriptions if possible.
The Strudelhof! Could’ve easily been dreamed up by Mel Brooks . 😂
“Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom,
Boom, Boom, Boom,
Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom…
Oh, brilliant reference 😆😆
@@hilaryc8648 Took me a minute. 😂 Blackadder ?
@@d.c.8828 ‘..Goes Forth’ yes. Its Baldrick channelling his inner Sassoon.
Boom, boom, boom?
@ Thank you Baldrick 😆
Just love these two!
How one could think that Monbiot was right about almost anything is deeply puzzling
There were in fact several German "colonies" in Brazil, much before the Kaiser's time. For instance, my hometown, Petrópolis, in the range of hills north of Rio, was a 19th century immigration experiment mostly from what today is Germany. My father, who was born in the late 1930s, once commented that in his childhood the German language could still be widely heard in the streets.
Christopher Clark's basic premise in "The Sleepwalkers" is not really that different from that put forward by Lloyd George in his post war memoirs when he says that Europe "slithered over the edge" into war. The basic idea being that nobody actively sought a war.
The one country that could have ended the July Crisis at any point was Germany. If Germany had told her ally in Vienna not to react militarily to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand and his wife things would have been differnt. The key debate is over the reasons why Germany acted as she did. Was it because Germany saw an opportunity to launch an aggressive war an a favourable moment? (The Fritz Fischer thesis).Or was it because those taking the decisions in Berlin were totally incompetent and clearly not up to the task of handling a rapidly developing situation?
What do German archives and memoires say on this issue ?
Would they have taken good care of their archives or explained it in their memoires if it gave a positive view on their past decisions and actions ?
Why couldn't the two of you be my history teachers when I was school? I would ace every test, every episode feels like a coffee conversation between friends that I can just pick up a mug and join. If only I could tell my ten year old self that its not the subject its the teacher and years later I will be gobbling historical podcasts like a mad woman!