Overanalyzing what Germans say…and now I’m so confused😂
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- American in Germany asking: what does "nicht selten" actually mean??
German-language video: • Deutsche sagen das NIC...
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In my view, the phrase "nicht selten" leans more to the "always" side than to the "never" side. But "often" is far stronger than "nicht selten". Thus, I would place "nicht selten" somewhere in the middle on the scale but with tendencies to the right.
This sounds absolutely right for me. Couldn’t say it better. Somehere in the middle, but pointing more towards often, but definitely less than often. Sounds complicated. Yes it is :-)
If I put numbers to the scale and never is 0 and always is 10. rarely or "selten" would be around 1-2. "nicht selten" would be like 3, maybe 4, but not more. But it really depends on what someone wants to express. Like, with an irony touch, it would rather be a 5-7. It really does depend on context.
I use NICHT SELTEN intuitively when smth is expected to happen rather rarely but it actually happens relatively frequently. It seems to emphasises the ‘surprising’ contrast between expectation and reality. So for me it doesn’t mean that it happens often, but just more often than expected. I noticed that people strangely say sometimes IMMER NICHT instead of NIE, which I don’t understand why…
even worse: IMMER NIE ;)
I know the phrase "nicht immer" but haven't heard "immer nicht". Not consciously. "Nicht immer" meaning something like "not always", which is more than often, but less than always. Like, 9 out of 10 times I go to store A for grocery shopping.
The only thing I can think of with "immer nicht" is something like "immer noch nicht" as in "I'm still waiting for it to happen" ("es ist immer noch nicht passiert"). But, maybe, "immer nicht" is some kind of youth language? That doesn't always make sense. They just want to be - different? - I guess?
Agree! There is a bit of surprise or dissapointed expectation in this phrase
@@hellkitty1442 "Immer nicht" is technically synonymous with "nie". I am a native speaker and I would typically use it in a sentence like: wenn ich aus dem Haus gehe, mache ich die Fenster immer nicht zu, which would mean: wenn Im leaving my house, I never close the windows. I could easily just use "nie", Im only compelled to use "immer nicht" over "nie" when I want to put emphasis on the fact that the action that isnt being done is part of something that I do very often. if its not an action that I do regularly or if the regularity of it isnt of importance in the discussion, I would just use "nie". "nie" would be used when the frequency of the action being not done is irrelevant. but always using nie is just fine and not less correct.
@@sshreddderr9409 I'm a native speaker as well ;-)
Maybe it's a regional thing or something. At least I can't recall using "immer nicht".
"nicht selten" is used for something that you would expect to happen "selten" but in your/this particular case it is "nicht selten". you would say it in a context where it is obvious or not surprising that something happens THIS often.
it is not used for e.g. breathing or eating apples, but rather for something that us uncommon in general, e.g. pulling an all-nighter, buying/selling your car
"Nicht UNüblich" is a little less strong than "üblich".
"Nicht selten" is a little less strong than "oft".
I immediately thought of the Tom Jones song: "It's not unusual to be loved by anyone". "Nicht selten" is a form of emphazising that, yes, it happens quite often to be honest. So it's more on the right side of your chart, very close to "oft".
To understand nicht selten i think you first have to define what selten actually is. Lets say you hear the phrase "ich gehe selten ins Fitnessstudio" that (to me) means something like once every 2 weeks or smt
When someone says "ich gehe nicht selten ins Fitnessstudio" then I imagine them going once or twice a week.
Nicht selten is for me the middle between selten and oft
Ich bin mir ziemlich sicher,dass sowohl "not uncommon" als auch "nicht selten" dann benutzt wird,wenn es überraschend ist um was es geht bzw man eben eher erwartet hatte,dass es "uncommon" bzw "selten" ist.
throughout this entire video, my brain decided this is the perfect opportunity to launch an "it's not unusual" (by Tom Jones) Ohrwurm 🤣
But yes, I'm also puzzled about the details of these expressions, and feel like what "nicht selten / not uncommon" actually means depends on knowing the context
I'd say, both for English and German, but I'm German, I'd say that "not uncommon" is used for sth that you would expect to be uncommon. "Yeah Germans do call the police if their neighbors make noise on Sundays - it's actually not uncommon." Because as a US citizen, you wouldn't expect that to be normal. You think it's uncommon, but it's not uncommon.
On the other hand, "often" means more than normal. Whatever normal is, sure. But "often" is more than "not uncommon".
Ich denke "nicht selten" ist eine Spielerei mit der Sprache, die SEHR gängig ist. Meistens ist es ja auch das, was man an guten Romanen mag, nämlich dass der Schriftsteller mit der Sprache spielt und nicht nur Fakten liefert.
I never thought about it, before you pointed it out to me, but yeah - we Germans use the phrase 'nicht selten' nicht selten :D
First I thought that it's just used as enhancement, because 'nicht selten' has a bigger impact that 'häufig'. And while I still think that's partly true, I think the better answer is, that we want to say that while something is not uncommon it also isn't super common. So it leans more towards the middle of the spectrum - neither rare nor common, just something that happens.
Eine Litotes ist eine Litotes. Eine Redefigur, die es in vielen Sprachen gibt.
Where I live (in southwestern Germany) double negatives are not uncommon.^^ E.g. when you meet someone and they ask how you are you would never say "Great"" but rather answer "Not bad!"
I often use "nicht selten" when I've already used "oft", "häufig", etc. too often in the past few minutes and seek variety. Especially in a text this is important as it, at least to me, makes the paragraphs more distinguishable among each other.
It is not rare for me to look up synonyms simply for the prosaic aesthetic.
Of course there is also a certain melody associated with "nicht selten". Nicht selten wünscht Harald ein Festmahl mit Freunden. If you caught the meter in that, congratulations.
And furthermore you can say "relativ oft". It would also be in the middle on that scale. :)
„Nicht selten“ for me is a certain style of speech. Mostly used somewhat ironically.
This kind of use is a double negative or litotes and is not only used in German. But I guess we use it more often??
Whatever it really is, I use it to emphasise the opposite. So nicht selten on the scale for me would be more often than „often“
nicht selten - doesn't ring a bell, personally.
It's probably not a phrase we (as in: me and my family) use often, because there are so many synonyms to it, depending on the frequency of something - Or, which is more likely: we don't notice it as native speakers.
There are many ways to actually say "nicht selten" with a more specific meaning:
"viel, mehrfach, vielfach, wiederholt, generell, reichlich, gehörig, ausgiebig, öfter, endlos, anständig, vielmals, oft, zig mal, x-mal, viele Male, sehr oft, etliche Male, vielmalig, nochmalig"
For me using that phrase sounds like saying in english: "It's not cheap." Instead of "It's pricey." or "It's quite expensive."
Better example for a double negative as a Litotes in german would be: "Nicht das Schlechteste was mir je passiert ist." or "Nicht das Beste was die Kantine zu bieten hat."
Have a nice week ('-')/
That's a perfect translation, "not uncommon". It just depends how literate or sophisticated a person's speech is. So what I'm saying is that it's not a common turn of phrase.
Nicht selten could be closer to sometimes than to rarely or often
Another aspect I haven't seen anyone else comment about, is that "nicht selten" is also _deliberately_ vague. It's somewhere between selten and oft, but you are not sure _where_ exactly, and the person using the phrase maybe _doesn't want_ you to be sure.
How often "nicht selten" is is not well defined. For me it only means that it's not a rare event, so nothing special. To me it's more an emphasis to show that something is perfectly normal. You can increase that emphasis by starting your sentence with this phrase. "Nicht selten sieht man Menschen im Englischen Garten nackt Sonnenbaden."
I wouldn't locate "nicht selten" on the scale between "selten" and "oft" on a specific point. I use it in situations when something is not happening a lot but more then expected, still above average.
Maybe looking at "nicht selten" and "not uncommon" as if they were descriptions of how often an event happens or not might not be the most helpful way to fully understanding both phrases. Once you mentioned "not uncommon" ans kind of an English equivalent, I almost immediately thought that you could replace both phases with something describing not the amount of events happening but rather the normality or regularity in which they appear. As such, I would go on to say that "not uncommon" could also mean that something simply happens regularly or that it is normal. Likewise, I'd then say "nicht selten" needs to be seen more like "normally//normalerweise/üblicherweise" or "not irregular/not unnormal//nicht unüblich(erweise)". Example.: In Germany, it is not uncommon that you won't see a cake at a birthday party. // In Deutschland ist es nicht ungewöhnlich (=nicht selten), auf einer Geburtstagsfeier keinen Kuchen vorzufinden.
"Not uncommon" occupies an area between rarely and often. It's that middle ground between 30 and 50 percent, depending on sample size. It's not never, but it isn't every time either.
So, now i have found an englisch video and took to time to view it (so far i have seen only a few german videos from you). I use the phrase "nicht selten" if something is not rarely, but not really often either. Something that is more often than rarely, but not often enough to be mentioned as often. i hope that this did not confuse you 😀
I don't think I've heard "nicht selten" much although I've lived in Germany for over 40 years. In English you could say "It's not such a rare occurrence" and definitely, "not uncommon" or "not unusual". I vaguely remember our English teacher at school deriding the "not un-" construction (also with reference to George Orwell) so I try to avoid it myself.
Using a double negative is a stylistic form to express something. It's not specific to the German language but used in English as well. There might be several reasons to use it depending on the context. So using "nicht selten" instead of "oft" in regards of the english"rarely" it might be that something is usually rarely observed but you obviously observed it more often.
So it might be used as well to express something politely. When watching TV news and there is something about the Queen, you never read or hear "The queen was annoyed" but always "The queen was not amused". In German we for example say: "Er ist nicht die hellste Kerze" which would translate to "he isn't the brightest lightbulb" which literally means "he's dumb" but more politely.
Sometimes I observed a double negative also in english songs like "I can't get no satisfaction" (Rolling Stones) or "We don't need no education" (Pink Floyd).
So using these stylistic forms might sound strange in a foreign language but seem to be common. 🙂
Same in dutch. "Niet zelden ziet men beren broodjes smeren" = "One quite often sees bears buttering bread".
You gave me a new insight into my motherlanguage.
this was pretty fun
Bei der Arbeit verwende ich "nicht selten" wenn etwas zum Beispiel nicht im Standardarbeitsprozess vorkommt, aber häufig genug ist, das es ohne weiteres verarbeitet werden kann. Im Privaten nutze verschwimmen die Grenzen zur Nutzung von "nicht selten" und "oft".
Die Konstruktion mit der Negierung benutze ich häufiger im Alltag. Wenn ich einen Tag habe, wo irgendwie nichts so klappen will wie es sollte, und jemand fragt mich wie es mir geht, antworte ich häufig mit: "Nicht schlecht." Je nachdem wird es als "gut", "etwas bedrückt ihn, aber er möchte nicht darüber sprechen" oder bei Leuten, die mich gut kennen, als "kein guter Tag, aber auch keine Katastrophe" verstanden.
in the song "An other Brick in the wall" there is the phrase "we don't need no education" and for me this sounds like "We need at last some education, because we don't need having none of it"
In my understanding both terms „nicht selten“ and „not uncommon“ were originally designed for a situation in which the speaker either directly or (preemptively) indirectly wishes to counter somebody’s else argument that something is happening „selten“ or is „uncommon“. So this is not a different way to say that something happens „oft“ or is „common“ but a form to disagree with somebody’s else assessment that is uncommon, even when nobody has made this point yet in the conversation. There is no definite qualification by the speaker that the topic at hand is indeed happening often or just in any number above the threshold of „uncommonness“.
Greetings from Hong Kong. Hello, Miss Dana. The first video that I watched in your UA-cam channel is the difference between German and American apples, it was interesting.
And it could be more interesting to know some German language, sentences and culture in this video, which is educational. Besides, I was confused and had a hard time to understand what Germans say, so it is great to learn it from here and can be useful for all of us.
I would say that ‘nicht selten‘ means something like ‘not as rarely as you‘d expect’. For example, let’s say you know a person quite well, and as far as you know, that person rarely goes to the cinema. Then, when you ask that person about it, it turns out that he or she surprisingly goes to the cinema more often than you thought he or she would. So that person could say: ‘Ich gehe (gar) nicht (mal so) selten ins Kino‘. I go to the cinema not seldomly, or maybe ‘It‘s not that uncommon for me to go to the cinema‘ (not as uncommon as you‘d think).
What about the English expression “more often than not”? Would it be similar to “nicht selten”?
Ich benutze es folgendermaßen:
Wenn ich hervorheben möchte, das etwas häufiger vorkommt, bzw. nicht so selten wie den Anschein haben könnte, dann benutze ich die negative Formulierung "nicht selten" oder "nicht ungewöhnlich".
We also use this expression in Spanish. We're all the time using double negative phrases and I think "nicht selten" would be "nada raro" for us.
Officially, my English teachers always told me that all double negatives are grammatically incorrect, but I had one who told me tongue-in-cheek that some are less incorrect than others (which is a double negative, in case you missed it).
From the mathematical point of view, negation is the opposite. So "nicht selten" should refer to "oft". Beyond mathematics, in our daily life, I tend to "if something supposed to happen rarely but happens more or less frequently" as a definition of "nicht selten". Truth be told "more or less frequently" isn't very specific. In your scale, it is something between the middle point up to somewhere between the middle point and "oft". When the frequency approaches "oft", I use to say "öfters" which is for me something like "not often but almost often". But as I see in the other comments, there is no specific point where "nicht selten" has to be. So, you can use it in small talk if the frequency doesn't matter. Even I ask sometimes "ok, but how ofter does X happen?" if I'm interested in it or I suppose that my counterpart has other values in mind as I have.
I also observed that negation is used often to play on the uncertainty where on the scale it is. For example "Das ist nicht schlecht" is used to say that something is in between good and bad but emphasizing that it is definitely not bad.
HEy thank you for the video, I´m German and i had a simular experience in English. When do you use frases like for example "ain´t got nothing" or simular frases. In German it would be "ich habe nicht nichts" what would mean i have something.
Using the double negative (aka Litotes, academically speaking) is not specific to German, it is just a way of expressing one's opinion in more diplomatic/refined/less offensive fashion. Our English friends are traditionally even more into this.
Sometimes I use "manchmal", but it's not uncommon to use "nicht selten". 😜
But I must admit I have never thought about the quantities behind these words. 🤔
"Nicht selten" is a negation and is not the same as "oft". The negation stipulates an exception, so usually it would be "selten" (scarce, rare, seldom) but in this case it's not (not rare, not scarce). the words common and uncommon would be translated and used for "üblich" and "unüblich", which is not equal to "selten".
As far as I know this form of speech is called litotes and it exists in German as well as in English. Its use depends highly on the context.
For example: If someone says "Ich gehe nicht selten abends noch einen trinken." it means that they do it often but it kind of jokingly implies that it's a bad habit and they probably shouldn't do it.
If someone says "In Deutschland sieht man nicht selten Leute mit Bargeld bezahlen." it implies that it happens more often than you might expect.
There are a lot more examples where it could mean many different things but I'd say it's the same with phrases like "not uncommon" or "not bad" etc.
Maybe it's just not a way of speaking that feels very natural for you. I think we all have our little quirks that we tend to stick to.
If you use double negation or phrases like "nicht selten" you may want to accentuate your statement without using a superlative like "sehr oft".
As a native English speaker, my thought is that "not uncommon" is roughly in between "common" and "uncommon", as if it's short for, "I wouldn't go so far as to say it's uncommon."
You would use "nicht selten" in cases where one might think that something is unusual but in fact, surprisingly, it is not. Example: People think cats and dogs are natural enemies, however, it is not unusual that cats and dogs living in the same household even become best friends. -> Nicht selten werden Katzen und Hunde, die im selben Haushalt leben, sogar beste Freunde, obwohl die Leute denken, dass Hunde und Katzen Feinde sind.
In my opinion with increasing frequency: nie < fast nie < sehr selten < selten < manchmal < nicht selten < oft < häufig < sehr oft < nicht immer < fast immer < immer
For me as a native german speaker "nicht selten" has a weaker meaning than "häufig"/"oft" (often). This can be used to lower the expectations of the ausdients.
For example if I want to tell someone where I usually find a rare item, but I do not want them to be disappointed in case they do not find it in the specified place.
Another use case is in criticism. Let's say there is a bad behavior, which can be tolerated on rare events, but it happens a few times to often. I do not want to seem rude by saying it happens often, than I could use "nicht selten".
So I would say, "nicht selten" is somewhat between rarely and common. It is not common but very often, or something like that. :)
Something that happens not often but also not rarely but also happens more often than you expect. 😉
Hi Dana, Du kannst mit der Phrase "nicht selten" betonen, dass etwas öfter passiert oder vorkommt, als Dein Gegenüber vielleicht vermutet.
statt "nicht selten" benutzen wir eher "manchmal" oder "oft" weil "nicht selten" ein umweg zum eigentlichen ziel des kontext ist. lg aus Rostock :)
French use the same kind of formulation: it means it's not a rare occurrence, i.e. it's common.
"The barbarians showed unusual kindness to us..." Acts 28:2. The grammar in Greek is more like "The barbarians showed not the usual kindness", so I wondered at first if they failed to show the usual kindness. But then "they invited us to the fire they had just lit because it was cold and rainy". Apparently Paul and the other naufragees weren't expecting that of barbarians.
I feel like nicht selten would translate to not uncommon 🤔
I thought double negatives are used for emphasis both in German and in English. So "nicht selten" ist even stronger than "oft" and "not uncommon" more common than "common". And there must be a lot more like these in English. Just think of Tom Jones and "It's not unusual to be loved by anyone". I always thought that meant it's more than usual.
I do think it is not as strong as oft🤔
Im Gegensatz zur oft erwähnten Direktheit der Deutschen, lieben wir in der Sprache gerne ein paar "Umleitungen"... entweder, um sich nicht 100% festlegen zu müssen (eine Hintertür offen zu lassen... "Hab ich doch gesagt")... oder, um - in deinem Fall - eine Seltenheit in ihrer (Nicht-)Häufigkeit noch präziser beschreiben zu können.
"Is it not uncommon to say 'not uncommon?' Or is it _uncommon_ to say 'not uncommon' and _more_ common to say 'common?'"
😳 Whoa. 🤔 This... sort of sounds like the kind of thing a man would expect to hear from someone who had just smoked a joint.
Too bad that it gets that association. Why should people need to take drugs to think about this stuff. Why not teach it in schools (make it part of the curriculum instead of accidentally teaching it to some but not all)? Children think about that kind of questions naturally, so it would be the perfect time to really dig into it. Only (many but not all) adults have become so jaded that they might need some kind of trigger (like a pyschogenic substance) to ponder something like that. And on the other hand, I do believe that if people in general are more 'fluent' in these kinds of questions, a lot of confusion and conflict could be avoided.
no, it does not mean the same. "Nicht selten" means literally that - not rarely. This may mean that it's somewhere in the middle, or a bit more often than that; but not really "often", however you would define that.
👍 - _also_ for the YT algo! 😊
Nice
nicht selten is not es often as oft. but it is way more than rarely. mpre than sometimes even. i'd sav it is similar to öfters
öfters btw would translate to more often, but it is in fact less than often, meaning something like above average
@@beesha6209 that kind of construction is not that rare. i think the way superlatives are commonly taught in schools is kinda lacking for leaving out this feature.
"Is it not uncommon to say not uncommon? Or is it uncommon to say not uncommon and more common to say common?" I say Tutankhamun!
6:30 😊 Dana's inner _polyglot_ is showing.
Doppelte Verneinung ergibt Zustimmung. Double negation equals consent in german :D
Kommt drauf an. Das ist nicht immer so, vor allem im Dialekt.
Das glaub ich ja nie nicht...
You say "nicht selten" or "not uncommon" when you want to emphasize that it is the opposite of selten and uncommon. It's a figure of speech. You also do not often ;-) use these expressions, because they don't fit always, and also they are adding emphasis where you wouldn't want that emphasis normally. The scale in the video for this is rather meaningless for what you want to express when using it. There is no range of interpretation, because "not/nicht" just negates selten/uncommon. So if it is not rare, then it's common.
In English, this is called litotes.
Nicht selten= immer mal wieder
Why are you still using the posh 'r', instead of the real 'r'? It sounds stupid if you say: "wo ich so sej' instead of 'wo ich so sehr'. It is German, not English. Stop using a j-sound/posh 'r'.
Nice