Tuning in from Germany, ive got to say, this is BY FAR the best youtube video series i have seen for a very long time! I dont have the words to explain it properly because i am not a native speaker, but your research and analysis are flawless and very neutral. You dont hype things or make em very dark, you just hit the sweet spot! subscribed. cheers.
Maybe the reason the police (not even the police dogs) couldn't find any trace of Elisa the first time they were on the roof was because her body wasn't in the water-tank YET. Maybe her body was placed in the tank only a while after the police had left the hotel the first time. It would have been a strange spot to hide a body for that long, to begin with - as decomposition takes places in the water:it can risk the life and health of all hotel guests.
+GeekenDorx Well, if any of the hotel's emplyee/s were involved in this, locks couldn't stop them, since they have keys. But it would stop a guest or outside person from accessing the tanks...
Ive been looking in this, ive noticed no one has a real time line of events for elisa. I mean there are quick refences here and there but no real time line mapped out. You probly go most indept up to when she is finally found. Where exactly did the police look on the roof. You'd think they also look on the roof next to the tanks. Wouldn't they have noticed the open tank. If indeed it was open. I know its difficult to do a time line since the info seems to be missing. I would love to hear your thoughts of how her final days played out, and all the mistakes made in the case. Btw love your channel seen everything youve done on lam.
Hey geek you think the reason they might have actual footage of her going to the roof which is why the keep searching the roof and meanationing the roof. Have you file a fio for all footage they have. Be something to look at. Becuase seems also fishy they were up there, and even bringing the dogs. Its strange.
More name coincidences (or not): The hotel's chief engineer's name is Jose Pedro Tovar. The assistant medical examiner's name is Jason P Tovar. Also, the maintenance worker who made those dubious claims is Santiago Lopez, and a former executive of the hotel (CEO) is Angel Lopez.
Hi 👋 2 years late myself. Tovar and Lopez are very common Hispanic last names and they are in LA of all places. I mean try replacing Tovar and Lopez with Miller and Wilson. If you still feel the same way, fair enough.
So what did housekeeping/hotel management do with Elisa's belongings when she never returned to the room or check out of the hotel?? Did they not even suspect something strange when she never returned for her things? Did they call the cops eventually and report her disappearance? I need a solid timeline of events! *sigh. this case is swiss cheese. So many holes.
+unforeseeninsight I don't have info on the specifics of how her articles were handled, and I'm not sure if the hotel called the police. I believe the police were contacted by Canadian authorities when the parents notified them that they were no longer hearing from Elisa. I know the LAPD held a press conference 5 days later (Feb 6th I believe).
This case I feel wasn't being investigated properly by the LAPD because around the same time of her disappearance/death they were searching for Christopher Dorner. Which meant not a lot of resources and manpower were given to Elisa's case but rather to the Manhunt for Dorner
I think you may be on to something. It's clear that there was no reason to release the surveillance footage, especially in an altered state, unless it was shaping a narrative. I still think there was another person on the footage that was cut out with that missing minute. I'd love to know what Elisa's family thinks or what their lawyer's strategy could be. Honestly, this channel should be the investigators of this case since you guys seem more dedicated and capable than the actual police!
+villainsrule I like the theory that another person originally beeing on the tape. something about this tape is very, very wrong. ive seen alot of videos about it, half of them may be not true but they all are valueable. i also think, the idea, that her body was hidden and later actively placed in the water tank ( for what reason, we dont know, why place it THERE?) is plausible... hey, we all know that MONEY is the greatest POWER today. theres something very very very wrong with this whole case.
I've been aware of this case for some time through the book "Missing 411 - A Sobering Coincidence" by David Paulides. Today was the 1st time I saw several videos analyzing the case, with many different theories, etc. This series of videos are the ones I consider to stick to the facts and speculate very little on theories, congratulations for being so objective, it's not very common this days. I consider this case to be extremely weird but there are some aspects that I find more "disturbing" than others. For example, I read the autopsy report and I didn't saw any mention of water in the lungs... I'm not a doctor and maybe I missed that information, but if I didn't, when someone drowns, shouldn't there be water in the lungs? What caused the lack of blood found in the body? There were no puncture marks, no signs of any way to extract the blood, where did all the missing blood went to? The body decomposition is consistent with a couple of weeks, which implies that Elisa most likely was in the water tank on February 1st or 2nd. The police searched the hotel after that, twice, with K9 units, how did the dogs "missed" her scent, independently of how she got in the tank (forced or willingly), shouldn't there be traces of how she got there (fingerprints, fibers, etc.) that the police should have found? If this was a murder, how did the assassin drowned her (if drowning was the cause of death) without leaving any evidence behind.... no scent from him, her, fingerprints, fibers, nothing? She was supposed to check out on February 1st, why didn't the hotel noticed she hadn't done that, specially when they had to move her from the room she was staying due to the roommate complaints and that happened just 1 day or less before she had to checkout? And the one that boggles my mind completely..... what are the odds that 2 days after her body was found, the CDC dispatched a team to LA to fight a tuberculosis epidemic that infected 4500 people and the test they used to check for TB was called the Lam-Elisa TB test... I just can't see this as a coincidence, but at the same time I can't see any explanation for such odd fact. These are just some examples, this case is extremely bizarre in every aspect, I have no idea or theory of what really happened or how it happened and for some reason I have the feeling that the truth is far more complex and illusive than what one can think or imagine. I just hope she didn't suffer, from what I saw and read it seems that she already had enough of that during her life. R.I.P. Elisa Lam
If it was an accident, she would've struggled to survive, like you said: torn fingernails, screams, bruises, etc. I find it hard to imagine, if it was non-intentional, that she would just drown, serenely. The evidence of the lungs, and the evidence of the LAPD's previous corruption scandal, is haunting, to say the least.
Don't know if this question has come up before but just wondering why it would take so long for the water pressure to be affected if the body was potentially in the tank for around 19 days?
The things that bother me. 1. what time die Elisa usually ring her parents? Did she actually go missing earlier in the day as she had failed to call on the 31st. 2. When did her parents contact the police? Early Feb is the best date that I can find. 3. What did the hotel do when Elisa failed to check out (or had the police or parents already contacted the hotel at checkout time 10am?). Was her room checked, where her belongings removed from the room for cleaning, were constant numbers called, police contacted? 4. What proof is there that the video released on the 14 th February was actually from the night of the 31st. As the time stamp is unreadable it could have been any time. 5. Where is the other video footage from her stay?
I was just saying where is the rest of her stay to a friend. Would love to see it. I find it curious that this is the only footage. You also make a good points. The open hatch concerns me, all the people on the roof over and over and no one noticed fishy
+Babelfroggy its interesting that when John went to the hotel they noticed other cameras in the hallway and pointing to the fire escapes. Surely if she'd made her way up there on her own as this psychotic theory suggests there would be some record of her doing so or where she went after the elevator scene! It all seems so wrong to me :s
L123Ryuzaki the trial we should see evidence in the trail of all footage, if that happens it will all be released to the public. So far it doesn't appear to be any footage other than what is released which is odd. Considering how many camera's are in the area
+Chris Lucas im just thinking that on the autopsy they've put that it was an accident but if there was foulplay then we would know from the footage from those security cameras which havent been released
L123Ryuzaki That the thing this footage looks tampered with who is to say the rest is any better. Till it released and we see it just do not know what the police where thinking or why. I am not even sure there is any footage, sure does not seem to be.
I'm still having a difficult time understanding how the water pressure could have been affected, if her body was found floating approx. 12 inches from the top of a 10 ft. water tank on the same day the water pressure issue was occurring. I'm also curious to know if her body was indicative of a body that would have been decomposing in water for a long period, or if he body could have been placed in the tank recently before it was "discovered". Are there only two maintenance men? If not, and all the maintenance men have a key to the roof, then possibly one of them killed her and disposed of her body in the water tank. I also wonder how thorough the autopsy was. How many other bodies were waiting to be autopsied? How much sleep did the coroner have before performing her autopsy. I think there is a greater potential to miss things under several circumstances. If I were the family, I would want an independent autopsy performed, especially with so many unanswered questions.
+pam lewis The body did show signs of long term water exposure (green marbling of the skin being a major one). I'm not sure how large the maintenance staff is, but I would guess it's more than two people. In terms of the autopsy, we know Dr. Wang has a previous legal issue where it was revealed he didn't process a body correctly. You raise a lot of great questions!
Hi John, tuning in from Germany as well. One thing I'd like to mention, about Elisa's body found naked in the water tank, with her clothes around her. This fact actually points to the possibility that she was alive when she entered the tank. One typical cause of death when immersed in cold water, is hypothermia. When the body temp drops below a certain threshold, the hypothermic brain will play tricks on the body, and produce a false sensation of heat. Feeling hot will prompt the victims to take off their clothes (known as "paradoxical undressing"). Which of course only adds to the progress of hypothermia. As the body temp is falling further, the next stages are loss of consciousness, and finally cardiac arrest. So she may have taken off her own clothes, while in the tank. How she got there in the first place, remains a mystery. Keep up the brilliant work! :)
I wonder if the reason that they released that short clip of her in the elevator to the public is because that was the only footage they have on the security cameras of her by herself all the rest of it she was with another person or people....
I have thought that too... Makes you wonder!! Odd that no other footage has been released... out of the whole hotel there was only her in the elevator? Hmm.
+Dale Martin It's only this short clip. Slowed down. Actual time censored.. Alterd... This is the main problem I have here. Why wouldn't they release all the videos from this night without editing? Something to hide!?
With reference to odd behavior on Elisa's part, I remember reading somewhere that the owner of The Last Bookstore reported that Lam had been talking loudly and perhaps acting manic at the time she visited. Other reports say this owner said she was acting normal and was happily buying things for her family. This seems to be as close as we can get to any real "interview" of people who actually witnessed Lam's mental state, which is why I keep returning to thoughts of that bookstore owner. Even then, with mental states, things change very rapidly. We don't know if she rapidly cycled, developed particular delusions, or felt so manic and at a loss of control she spontaneously decided to end it all (this does not seem to be the case given the elevator footage showing her to be relaxed and at ease.) I am also interested in why LAPD did not interview/search the dwellings of those who lived on the top floors, where it's said that sex offenders and various other very sketchy people still live permanently. These people would be the first I would suspect as having killed her. Lam could very well have run into one of these people, especially if she'd been around the 14th floor. OR, she could have been staying with someone else. Now, given that HAD Elisa's body been discovered in proper time (and they didn't try to cover it up), what would have happened to the Cecil hotel? My thinking goes like this: worst case scenario is that the Cecil could somehow get shut down and that big transaction with CBRE would not have been able to take place. CBRE misses out on its important purchase , and the Cecil is potentially torn down/renovated such that the Skid Row area's climate changes drastically. All the unstable homeless people that gather around there then would possibly have to go somewhere else if cops now regularly patrol this newly minted area, since customers/occupants of that new non-Cecil building would have a say if those types still hung out there, or if someone powerful but also relatively uninvolved/uninvested gets their nose in that part of town. Let's just say the order of things as it is now would be completely changed, and someone would likely not benefit as they did before for sure... Question is, what's in it for the police? What would benefit them in this transaction of pretending to look for Lam's body but not finding it? Were they paid off by CBRE or related entities? (that's my bet.) Were they just lazy? (sadly, I wouldn't put it past certain institutions, but given that this case, that seems reckless if it's for no good reason.) Did someone related tot he hotel say "hey, I have some dirt on you, how about you just let this body marinate in the tank for a little bit for us here and we'll call it good"? Also, was that report "people complained about her behaving weirdly" bit fabricated as well? We have no proof that these other roommates even exist, or said anything of that nature. We only have this "oh she was acting weird" and then the footage - which was clearly edited (and slowed down) to give a certain impression. Given the holes in these people's reports, we can't trust what people say, period. There is only what they don't say. Thanks for reading if you happen to do so. It's late, if I said something that doesn't make sense pardon me, it's late, but I'm obsessed with this case.
Thank you son much John for these updates, I'm a huge fan and haven't missed a single one. Its so difficult to find consistent and new Elisa Lam updates amidst the massive repeat articles. really really appreciate. cant wait to see how this horrific even finally unfolds. if ever.
Idk if you read my comments on your last few videos or if we just came to the same questions but thanks for addressing them in this video! These need to be answered.
Interesting theories, John! I always look forward to your updates and discussion. These employee statements are so limited by semantics vs. the actual information they provide. We know that "regular" people have access to the roof, and likely the staff knows this. You mentioned graffiti being up there on some windows or a skylight (in an earlier video). Obviously the employees who go up there have seen it. Are they discounting that by trying to put the focus solely on the tanks? I could also see if Elisa was having some kind of manic episode, this could be a catalyst for the roommate complaints, but also possibly make her a target of employees or regular/live-in residents. These would be the people who have more knowledge about the roof top and tanks in the first place. (And how infrequently they are accessed by staff)
Great updates! Here's a couple things though......... Scent dogs are not perfect. There are many cases where they have lost the scent of something and have been only a few feet away. Sometimes, they just can't pick up a scent. A great read is 411 by Paul Paulides. Its a book about missing persons in state parks. I looked up a few of his cases for more info on the internet. Some of the people were found during a second or third search, AFTER scent dogs where in the area and didn't pick up anything. Most search and rescues are done at the most likely places. With this in mind, I can see the LA P.D. looking at the tanks briefly and going "Nope". I only know of 2 water tank deaths and the other was in Mexico city, believe. The Coroner report is no surprise either. They get a report from the police about how the body was found, If they were or might have taken drugs, etc. This allows the Coroner to do an autopsy specifically for the circumstances. This usually allows for a better determination of what happened and saves the state a lot of money on an extensive autopsy. No sense looking for gunshot wounds if you're pushed off a building :-) The not enough water in the lung theory. Scientifically speaking, it only takes a teaspoon of inhaled water to kill you. She may have well drowned. We should be looking at the Elevator Footage. Who did they edit out? This is obvious as it is quite clear she was fooling around with someone. Why was she thrown out of her room? Cecil Hotel needs to come up with a darn good answer on how she made onto the roof top. Obviously all the alarms werent working or they had windows opened on the fire escape. And the main thing, How did she end up in the water tank? Everything I see points to this scenario... She met or knew someone that she was having fun and playing games that day with. For some dumb reason they got out on the firescape and climbed to the roof, Maybe to look at the skyline. Her and her friend climbed to the top of the tanks, horsing around, and found out one of the covers could come off. They pulled the cover off to look in and Elisa took a header into the tank. She either became unconscious at that point OR the friend that she was with couldn't lift her back out. At this point she could have coughed up enough water, but not enough to get that last breath. Either way, she was unconscious or dead at the time and her friend flipped. He/She partially put the lid back on (It was found partially opened), and took off. This would explain why she had no bruising or broken nails, she wasn't banging on the tank for help but reaching up for the hole, and quickly going back under.
When you talk about the hatch on the tank are you referring to the square opening at the top? Trying to understand if the top was off of the tank or just the lid open...
there was a documentary about the smiley face murders where young men were found drowned. the controversy involved in those cases was were the deaths accidental or murder. one victim was found face up in the water, like the testimony of the maintenance worker who found elisa claiming she was face up in the water giving him the ability to identify she was asian. i dont think the cases are related but it was mentioned in that documentary that the natural position for a drowned body is face down. the fact that she was in a much more confined space may be a factor as to why she was face up, but it is odd that she was found in an unnatural position for a drowned body
I would love to see this theory be investigated by law enforcement because it's the most compelling. you and your people do such great work. keep it up!
+Jae Starke The type of decomp that occurred suggests she was in water for a long period of time, but you're correct in that it didn't have to be in that specific water tank. I've often thought about the possibility that she may have drowned in a different part of the building (which would likely have the same type of water).
My mind is completely blown by all of these Elisa Lam videos. I didn't think to look for videos like this at the time of her death but I have thought about her often. I'm glad I found these.
I want to know what the co-occupants of her room are saying about her "odd" behavior. What do they report? What was she doing that was strange enough to boot her from the room? What time on the 31st was she moved out of her room? Where is her cell phone? Did the authorities check her cell phone records? Was her cell used after her disappearance? How can the police not thoroughly check the area around the tanks and the tanks themselves? The police in L.A. are doing shoddy work if they didn't even think to check the tanks, it's just an obvious place to check and wouldn't take very long to take a peak. I believe someone has her cell phone or had it and made it disappear. Did someone get annoyed enough to hurt her or was she a victim of someone who preyed upon her especially since she appears to have been acting quite vulnerable and disturbed. Predators easily pick up on people who are not thinking clearly and target them. The missing phone makes me think foul play. If she lost the phone earlier, didn't realize she had lost it, and someone snatched it or found it, I guess it is plausible that the phone could just vanish, but most people would be going nuts trying to find their phone and would be talking about it to anyone who might help them find it. I get such a wrong feeling about this case. Something very bad happened to this girl and I believe this story will continue to haunt until the truth is found.
Hey there! I just recently subscribed a few days ago, I was looking thru youtube watching anything that mentioned Elisa Lam, I find it sad and creepy. I also realized your videos are from about 3 years ago, and for some reason or another her story is starting to trend again, at least on my feed. I was recently watching a video showing The Last Bookstore, which featured fairly prominently in the media as being one of the last places Elisa Lam was seen alive, uses a registrant privacy company for their website which is based in Burnaby, the suburb of Vancouver Elisa was from. The address given is a PO Box on Canada Way in Burnaby. However, the postal/zip code which is displayed for the address shows up as inside Forest Lawn Cemetery where Elisa's remains reside. Have you looked into this? You should, would love to watch a video about it. I love your channel!
Actually, I spotted some possible contradictions in the testemonies. First, obviously is the alarm. 30 years of service in the hotel and the alarm wasn't triggered once? Maybe by an overcurious child or something, any harmless incident? Aside fromthe previous eposide my gut for mathmatics tells me that the alarm wasn't working properly. 30 years without insignificant incidences seems very fabricated. Secondly, it is stated that the water system is gravity operated, and Elisa was found in the tank floating, so why would that affect the water pressure? There's no evidence of something plugging the pipe either. This seems as if the maintenence guy already knew the body was up there and needed a reason to check and find it. Also the police investigation leaves only two possible outcomes, either they completely screwed the case up, which is possible, if we remember that the smartphone wasn't tracked and the declaration as suicide was a favor to close the case. The other possibility is, that the body wasn't there during the investigation and was moved there after they had finished, because they wouldn't search there again. Another thing that stroke me where the dates. The boss of the cecil had to do the testamony in march, while the workers did theirs in february on the same date. This seems to me as if their account didn't carry enough weight for the "alarm and difficult access" to the watertanks, so they called in the boss later.
+Kröte nschemel "This seems as if the maintenence guy already knew the body was up there and needed a reason to check and find it." This. You're right man... no smell and the pressure thing... I wonder if the police interviewed the guests that complained about water pressure.
+Kröte nschemel Why assume that the smartphone wasn't tracked? Has it been stated that it wasn't tracked? It seems to me that many pieces of the police cover-up angle are based on assumptions that just because we haven't heard anything about the police checking the phone, interrogating the 506B roommates, or questioning the 14th floor inhabitants, it means that these were never done. The most persuasive evidence of police negligence is that they missed finding the body when searching the roof, if in fact the body was there at the time. Your thought about why the water pressure was affected when the body was floating 12 inches from the top is a good one! But it doesn't necessarily mean that the maintenance guy knew the body was up there or that the low water pressure was a fabrication. He'd know that police could easily verify the low water pressure and the complaints of the low water pressure. It could be that the cause of the low pressure was something else and that the maintenance guy simply discovered the body while investigating. I'm not sold on the idea that the hotel was involved. I honestly can't decide how negligent it is for police not to find the body on the roof. It could be that a policeman climbed the ladder on the structure overlooking the tanks, saw that no body was on the roof of that structure, and declared that area "clear" without walking across that roof to look down at the tanks.
another thing that doesn't make sense to me, if her body was close to the surface of the tank, how would that be effecting the water pressure? or am I not understanding how the tank works?
Thank you for all of your videos.. One question, why is this case so fascinating ? I have been somewhat obsessed with this mystery since discovering it, and your videos are some of the best pertaining to the case.. Thank you again and keep up the good work.
+timbo slice I think the lack of a story that feels honest and truthful about what happened to her is one of the more compelling aspects. The more info I find, the less sense the "official" story seems to make.
I've posted a full message on this on Geekendorx: Retracing the steps of Elisa Lam so I won't repeat it all. But I researched the mechanisms of drowning and compared it to Elisa's autopsy report. As you mentioned John, the human body has certain mechanisms to help it to fight in a drowning situation. Your vocal chords lock down to prevent water entering the body. This mechanism can last a few seconds or can stay until the point of cardiac arrest. If this happens, it's termed dry drowning. If a person is submerged in water and cannot swim for some reason, they thrash and fight and cause injury to themselves in the process. But we saw none of this on Elisa Lam. According to Wiki on drowning, a person will first ingest water into the stomach by swallowing it so it can't get into the lungs. Elisa did not have any water in her stomach at all, only scant red liquid was found. So coupling that evidence from the autopsy and the lack of struggle indicates to me that Elisa was either unconscious when placed in the tank, or knocked herself unconscious going in. Even an unconscious person is capable of drowning because eventually you will take a breath. If unconscious then it stands to reason that it wouldn't take too long in the water to drown, hence the reason that Elisa's lungs only contained what amounted to roughly a soda can worth of liquid in each lung. Had Elisa been dead when she entered the water, she would not have breathed in or swallowed any water because there wouldn't be a breathing mechanism to draw the water in. So it's possibly safe to assume she was alive, but unconscious in that tank. Now. Was she already rendered unconscious by drugs etc? Perfectly possible. But I had an incident during my misspent youth when I dived head first into the shallow end of the pool. I knocked myself a good one and even passed out momentarily, but afterwards there was no visible sign of my accident at all. But if we go back to that autopsy report and look at the sketches of her body, you will see an area of dry, brown skin on her forehead that would be consistent with knocking yourself on the bottom or side of that tank on the way in. She's already rendered unconscious so it's quite easy for her to drown. Now I've sketched a theory a couple of times that she was dared to go skinny dipping in that tank. If you look at the pictures of the difficult path through to that rear tank, it's a pretty big stretch that someone could carry a dead weight unconscious person through the pumping equipment and up the ladder in that tiny gap. Even carrying someone in a fireman's lift, just wouldn't cut it. Possible at a stretch yes, but likely? I really don't think the how of Elisa's death is any kind of occult, strange occurrence. It's being covered up by whoever was with her sure. But the investigation and on going civil case worry me greatly. Too much smoke and mirrors for my liking.
Yeah I totally agree with you there Kungiiii. Somebody somewhere in this suggested that Elisa really didn't have enough water inner lungs to drown. Personally I think that one breath is totally enough. That's why I think she was either unconscious already or knocked herself out on the way in. Surely, unconscious you wouldn't take too much water in before lights out.
I would really like to know why her alleged roommates have never been named or at least described (gender, age, nationality, etc.). I also find it curious that she was moved to a private room on the day she was supposed to check out. Did Elisa ask to extend her stay or was she moved to that private room in the middle of the night?
I only heard about this case on the 26/10/2015 when browsing UA-cam, something I very rarely do, I find your approach to be very logical and it puts a lot of stuff on the table. Is there a possibility Elisa made her way to the roof by the fire escape. I think, been new to this tragedy, a time line from 26Jan2015 to the discovery of her body would fill in a lot of questions, why was this not done. Ray (Ireland)
+Ray H Hi Ray, I certainly think she could have used the fire escape, however I'm not sure she would have needed to considering that I know someone that tested that alarm door, and it failed. That being said, the direction that she left in the elevator video would have given her both options.
***American Horror Story Hotel update***: So last nights episode of AHS finally did include a character with links to Elisa Lam! It was a very brief, included in a discussion with two Swedish girls who had died at the Hotel Cortez in the very first episode who were attempting to find their 'Purpose' at the hotel to enable them to leave. During this discussion, a peripheral character was shown {Nothing like the young and beautiful Elisa} who had drowned herself in the bath tub in her room. The short skit showed the girl lying in the water for sometime and gaining an impressive state of decomposition before being detected due to other guests complaining that the water coming through their faucets tasted and smelled foul. I have a hunch that this is as far as AHS will go with links to the Elisa Lam case. Whether we see any more of this character in particular remains to be seen. And of course the punchline to the discussion with the hapless pair is that once you die at the Hotel Cortez, you can never leave. Will drop in again if anything else crops up😊
cheers for your work on this, such an interesting case. to me finding out what happened in the original room, why she was moved, what was the behaviour that lead others to want her out. surely all of those from that room must have been thoroughly interviewed.
+GeekenDorx It may be chlorine - added to disinfect the water (which is why the hotel stated the water was safe to drink even though the body was in it)
+ShroomFactory I think you may well be correct there about the chlorine. I worked as a pool operator/lifeguard for many years and it can leave a chalky film on surfaces and people .
Yes I'm also someone with a healthy interest in the Supernatural. Believe me after watching your vid on invisibility cloaks and the ELA I was terrified to the point of not wanting to walk around my home in the dark {Love it but it scares me witless lol} and the elevator footage does have that somewhat creepy element. I just keep coming back to the point that it's edited to look that way.
I don't think someone trying to protect the hotel or whatever would put her body in the water source. I'm sure these reports of guest drinking water contaminated by a decomposing body has not helped their reputation.
John. I keep hearing she was moved to another room on Jan 31. Then I hear the elevator video was about midnight Jan 31. Wasn't she due to check out on Jan 31? What happened with that
This isn’t a part of the case but I just wanted to mention that there is a music video by the Zola’s for their song called “Ancient mars”. They made it to show the days before where they imagined her enjoying herself and discovering things as a young woman travelling alone in a new city. I think it’s quite well done and does a good job to bring the focus back to her life rather than the way she passed and surrounding circumstances. I recommend it!
Can someone clarify for me-- they said the "hatch" on the lid of the water tank was open, or the "latch," meaning was there an opening (hatch) that also had a latch that maybe had to be flipped up to then open the hatch. Maybe I heard it wrong, or maybe it's inconsequential, but it sort of struck me nonetheless.
Hi John, I have some news for you from a reputable news agency up here in Canada. It was posted Oct.31, 2015. There is lots of good information. Detective Tennelle gave his thoughts in a deposition. Of note he commented that they saw Elisa on surveillance tape come in with two unidentified gentlemen. They gave her a box and then she went up in the elevator. The two gentlemen were apparently never seen again on video. This raises a lot of questions. 1) Who are these two men, 2) What is there connection to Elisa 3) Where is the box, what was in it 4) why wasn't this video footage mentioned and shared like the elevator video? I think this is highly relevant information to the case as far as potential suspects. Why is this coming forward now, two years after the incident? www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/elisa-lam-canadian-tragedy-turned-american-horror-story-1.3295239
+Brooke Spagrud Great article!!! How is this the first time the public is learning about these two men who are the last "known" people to see her alive? Up here in Canada they would be considered persons of interest but now 3 years later good luck finding who they are. On the video she appears to be engaging with 1 possibly 2 people on either sides of the elevator door. If there are in fact people talking with her then they definitely seem to be careful to not be seen on camera. I find it odd that the video has been tampered with (the missing minute after she leaves the elevator) and I wonder if the 2nd person walks in view of the surveillance camera (thinking the door was closed) and thus it gets edited. There is absolutely no way she put herself in that water container. Her body was moved from where she died (I agree with the theory that there was some kind of date rape scenario that ultimately led to her death whether accidental or not) and was put in the water container along with her clothes. The Police in Canada and US are lazy. In this case they saw the video, learned she was bi-polar, made their conclusions and went thru the motions of an investigation believing the case would go away... when the focus didn't go away they started playing cover-up to protect their asses. Another question I have is with regards to the Maintenance worker who has been at the hotel for 30+ years... he seems to be the only constant during all these bizarre cases (Night Stalker and other murders and deaths) and unfortunate incidents.
The police dogs probably couldn't get her sent on the roof because she was carried up there and dumped in the water tank, she probably weighed less than 100 pounds. The question would be where was she raped, probably in a stairway, not too far a way because the perpetrator got her clothes and threw them in the tank as well.
I also wonder why was she on the 14th floor to begin with...don't they have cameras in the halls?? Strange that none of the footage of where she was coming from or what she was doing before she got on the elevator is released...
I know this video was posted in 2015, but I wanted to add to the thing you said @10:20 regarding the "how do they know". They can't know, ultimately.. However, its a better decision to say "accident" for not only the peace of mind for the family "blaming themselves for not being there and forseeing her state-of-mind", but also allows her family to make a stronger legal opposition regarding the lack of residential security and protection within the hotel. It really offers the best outcome for her (Ms. Lams'). Ms. Lams' family can also place the blame somewhere, which is quite normal for people whom are grieving to try and do and its less destructive to blame someone else, than it is yourself. Thats just my opinion however.
She was drugged by a person who didn't intend for her to die. Maybe a sexual desire for this attractive young girl who was alone and vulnerable in this seedy place. She died and the person became scared of the responsibility and decided to hide the body. Placed her on the roof, explaining the sand, but then noticed the tanks and decided to hide her there instead. Her body didn't fight the drowning cause she was dead or unconcious. The drugging explains her behavior in the elevator. The person may have been aware of the camera also, which is noticeable (I've seen it) and avoided it while coaxing her to them. The roof access was left open some days for the employees to smoke and whatnot, so I don't believe an alarm was set off. She was on the 15th (top) floor in the video, where maybe the persons room was. Maybe they did perform sexual acts (not intercourse) on her before realizing she was dead hence her being naked. The water and decomposing could have hid any signs of that. ???
That is a very good theory. I used to work for a semi big construction company. 90% of the clientele is commercial we had contracts with very big corporations which we had departments for each one and a set of crew members assigned to each corporation. In the 3 years i was there there was at least 3 incidents where human remains were discovered either by elecricians or plumbers while trenching to install new water lines, drain lines, or electrical lines. This was specifically during remodels of 1 story buildings and it is pretty much protocol to install new lines but its always in the same area obviously so its ground that has been dug up prior to us being there. And so when this would come up the protocol was to inform our chain of command then from there our higher ups would contact our corporate clients and then an emergency meeting would take place with the parties involved to get a vote on whether or not to report it to the appropriate authorities which the decision was always not to and the remains would be reburied and the construction would continue. I was never present during these incidents but the first time i heard about it was because a project manager at the office was showing our wharehouse manager pictures of remains they found on his site that day they let me look at the pictures. Im not an expert but the bones were piled neatly on top of each other with the skull on the very top of the pile and it looked like it was a dismembered body very disturbing. I wanted to report them so bad but considering the corporate giants that this involved i did feel like my life would have been in jeopardy. I really liked working there and was myself climbing up the ranks really fast but that was a clear indicator that it was not the place that deserve my blood sweat and tears.
Watched a few news videos during the time her body was discovered, and my first reaction was, they announced her identity very quickly. In most cases I have seen, or looked into, when a body is discovered sometime after death, in water, and obviously in a state of decomposition, they wait and use dental records, or dna. I realize she was missing and found with the clothes she was last seen in but even when the police pretty much know who it is, they wait to announce until it's confirmed. It would be interesting to look into how her body was identified.
+Crystal Potter That's a really interesting thought Crystal. I have also noticed that they will usually wait for a positive confirmation of the identity. I guess it's possible that the media jumped the gun, but they would usually be quoting someone. I wonder if a hotel employee leaked that to the press?
Sorry, you did address this. I haven't heard of anyone else looking into this critically, love it. Keep up the good work. Btw what about the claimed '911' call to the police? Don't they record everything?
John, okay new thought (at least new to me): Elisa makes her way to the roof on her own, then realizes she can't get back into the hotel. If she goes through the alarmed door somehow, perhaps it locks behind her, and she doesn't even know about the fire escapes. If by the fire escape, perhaps she cannot bring herself to climb over the edge to go back down. 15 floors is very high, and very scary!! She decides to find shelter and wait until morning, and in her state of mind, she finds the open water tank. It was pretty cool that night, and she was wearing shorts, so trying to find shelter seems logical. You didn't make it to the roof during your visit, did you? I'm wondering just how freaky it would be to climb back down the escape from the roof.
+Luke Dahn I didn't make it up there, but from what I understand the top level of the fire escape is literally a metal ladder attached to the wall. About one level down from that starts a more traditional metal staircase like the one I showed in our pics. What you're saying is perfectly feasible in terms of her being too intimidated to go down the ladder (and consider her eyesight issues in the elevator footage).
The one thing your missing about the Cecil Hotel is that it is known as a "Skid Row Hotel". From those of us that had the unfortunate circumstance of having to stay in that area, the Cecil was known for having a floor of drug dealers who would cater to Skid Rowdians that get SSI/SSDI that stay in the hotel at the beginning of the month. When I saw the elevator video a few years ago, my first thought was she saw "something" she was not suppose to.Considering the hotels reputation, my thinking is that LAPD treated her disappearance as a missing "skid rowdian" and didn't exactly try very hard.
I think what the guys meant was that they didn't receive any calls to turn off the alarm due to it being set off. At least that's what I got from their statements. I don't understand how they (Cops and/or staff) didn't focus on the Elevator maintenance room or the tanks though.
Hey +GeekenDorx John! Hope you are doing well. You pretty much brought up every question that I had raised myself, so I just wanted to say great job on updating us all with the new evidence! I definitely want to hear a report from these roommates, and know an example of HOW she was acting which caused them to want a switch. I also wanna know who they were. Were they females? Were they male??? Maybe The Cecil made the stupid mistake of housing her with guests who were known transients that couldn't afford the longer term stay, and maybe these people didn't have the most desirable reputations or backgrounds, and that's why they're covering it up? Maybe ELISA was the one who requested a new room bc the people she was staying with freaked her out? Maybe they took an interest in her, and combined with your theory about this big real estate company involved, a cover up was initiated? My other theory is that the LAPD didn't even check the roof at all in the first place.
Awesome questions, John! You reminded me of a few that I had forgotten. That time period you mentioned before she checked into the Cecil....there's just something that I just can't work out about that. I just can't explain what I'm thinking in regards to it. It's like something on the tip of you tongue, but everytime you go to say it, it's gone. If that makes any sense at all?! The whole fact of her being in a shared room before being placed into a private one...I don't know, that just sounds really like it's been made up to try and put a pretense to the "crazy" theory. It's weird that we were all lead to believe she was in a private room the entire time, but then find out that actually was wrong. Like you said John, why have we never heard from these people? You would've thought the media would've pounced on something like that! I definitely think your theory resonates with me. Of course, I still can't quite work out why or how she died, but the Cecil, and the people deeply involved in the hotel, covering up her body, and then dumping it in the tank....absolutely! Especially where money is involved, you betcha! I've always had the inkling that she didn't die there, but was placed there afterwards. I know we don't 100% know if the police did actually search the rooftop, but boy would it make sense if she was placed there after the search! I have still never understood why everything was in the tank with her either, ie. room card, clothes.... But if you're trying to get rid of evidence, thats a great way of doing it. Also, just a thought, leaving the body to be found a couple of weeks later, and also with the help of water, you're rape drug, or any drug in the system, theory would be a perfect way of hiding that bit of evidence too. Wow, my head is just buzzing!! But yes, definitely believe the hotel know more than they are letting on. Such awesome work, as usual, John!!! xo
+Jo Wallace It sounds like you're reading a transcript from my brain! Great questions and I hope we keep getting new information to hopefully answer them. Very good point about the water dilution too, perhaps someone was covering up a drugging or poisoning of some kind.
Hmmmm I wonder too. If they're happy to mention her original room, then why not the new room? You would think that would be a standard thing that they would record in the documents. Interesting.... By the way, thanks! :-)
Hey GeekenDorx, great Video again, my question is: The property guy herbe Chase might wanted to cover up the death of elisa, but it makes no sense looking at the history of the cecil with multiple deaths, suicides and murder happend there, what would one more dead body change?Even it was a international traveller the reputation is allready as low as possible. The property is only worth the ground were it stands the building its worthless.
+peter peters Good point, but maybe there's an aspect of the story we don't yet understand. For example, if it appeared that she was mistreated by an employee and that event led to her death, that would be a sign of pretty bad management and might have affected the decision of CBRE to work with Chase in terms of managing their other structures. If you were negotiating a deal to work with the largest real estate manager in the world, would you want info about a new, unexplained death on your property to be publicized? This deal could mean millions to those involved.The other events at The Cecil had happened years before Elisa's incident, and the only event to happen since (suicide jumper this past June) seems to have also gone silent in the media. Either the press isn't doing their job, or someone is doing very good at getting them to stop investigating this property.
+GeekenDorx well you might be right someone is blocking investigations. I can not belive that the LAPD is so incapable, especially on the roof investigations. By te way im going to visit LA in June 2016 some tips? Thx
I would be sure not to be at, or around The Cecil after 5pm. If you're looking for a Hoilywood Experience, I suggest going to Hollywood and Highland. It's a giant mall complex that is next to several Hollywood landmarks and has a great view of the Hollywood sign. :-)
great vid, as always! i noticed in the reports of the hotel staff members that, when answering the questions . they only specificly mentioned the watertank, i might have missed it, but i was rather surprised that, there was now question like: "how often do people enter the roof. without permission from the staff, on average. or something similar the questions are very focused on the watertank,perhaps to much even. if they were aware something occured on the roof, and they only are specificly talking about the watertanks. you could end up with something that may look like "plausible denial ability" . futher more, am i the only one missing any response by elisa's parents, she had contact with every day prior to her disappearance. and must be able to tell more about her state of mind and, where she stayed before she checked in the cecil... great effort on the money trail, BtW. you know what they say, when in doubt follow the money... if people are ruthless enough, to at least steal huge amounts of money during 9-11.. than at the very least hiding her death . is just hoiguit
Also - I would be interested in seeing the LAPD's information about her cell phone records and locations before and after her check-in at the hotel. This could (at least somewhat) point to where she was spending her time. I wonder what the odds would be of having media in the courtroom during these proceedings... Pssst - you would be great media!
I'm beginning to think her former roommates should be considered prime suspects, seeing how they had her removed from the room; perhaps she kept bothering them after she got into a new room and they (or one of them) decided to get rid of her for good! They could've accessed the roof by fire escape and drowned her once they got up there!
+MrApostolicpentecost I think at a minimum they should have been questioned by the authorities. Hopefully more details will come out on that as the case progresses.
Cameras is most likely why they ruled out foul play. The footage of Elisa on the elevator is NOT the only footage they used. If they had footage of her approach to the rooftop, it would have been very simple to conclude if she was acting alone or being lead.
Jeez, John! Change your t-shirt more often! (Joke ;) ) I really like the way your theory explains the slowing down of the footage (as in why it would be in someone's interest to do so), which is also why they would want to scramble the time code which I am sure will be brought up in court. Because they keep on saying how good the security system is and that the alarm would have gone off, maybe they told the police this at the time and the police decided it wouldn't be worth checking (but since the discovery made up the searching of the roof to cover their backs). I am sure I have got this wrong but her departure date was the 31st but the footage was from the night of 31st / morning of the 1st of February? Had she extended her stay or have I got the dates wrong? Anyway, great work as always!
did Elisa have the same USC college dorm room outfit on when she passed away, or did she have different clothes on ? from the handful of pictures of her on the WEBB, she seems to have a good sense of fashion, 3 red items she had on makes her look more of a sporty athletic type a personality in general. and not the delicate and smaller person in photos. i think person in video is a stunt double actress pretending to be Elisa that came straight from her dorm room at USC. there is always a smudge on her face on that video, thats not ELISA! sorry for some reason i cant post a comment but i can somehow post a reply on a PS3. if you can repost this for me then much obliged thank you
+Veggie Gamer HAHA! That was one heck of a long recording session (nearly two hours of me blabbing at myself). :-) Yeah, I'm not sure about that check out date issue either.. unless the hotel considers it by night (as in she was staying on the night of the 31st). Why would they move her to a private room on the same day she is checking out? I would think they would just ask her to leave, or at best have her items kept at the bell desk. I do hope more info about that discrepancy comes out.Have a great weekend Veggie Gamer!
+Fred Mcbane Hi Fred, she was found naked but her clothes were in the water tank with her (as well as a watch and her hotel key). I think she was dressed in "comfy clothes" and not like she was going out for the night. She also did not appear to have her purse or any cash/ID/etc.There are a lot of people that question if it's really her in that footage, and I can definitely agree that with the horrible quality, it would be easy to find a double and film something like that. All that being said, we do know that she at least truly died there, since there is an active court case related to it going on.
GeekenDorx As someone that has never worked in a hotel, that seems like a very odd use of the term "check out date" to me, but maybe you are right, maybe that is just the way they word it. Hope you have a great weekend too!
If the maintenance man says he never shut off alarm to roof, perhaps the police never actually checked the roof in preliminary checks.It wasn't actually checked until the man found the body.Therefore adding to the shoddy police work of this investigation.
Interesting how The Cecil was approved for a $100,000,000 renovation. What would you do for $100 million? Easily money people would kill for. After all this time, I still think there is more to this case.
Great video! I had pretty much accepted the accidental death scenario and still lean in that direction, but some great questions are posed here along with some excellent thoughts in the comments. One thought about the LAPD. It could be that they're covering things up. It could also simply be that they have much more evidence supporting the accidental death scenario that we don't know about. It could be that they followed every lead mentioned in the video and in various comments (e.g. the roommates in Room 506B, the occupants on the 14th floor, etc.) and all evidence points to accidental death. I also seem to recall that the police went through hours and hours of additional surveillance footage. They may have seen Elisa acting even more psychotic than in the elevator footage. Who knows. I don't know that any police department is in the habit of turning over evidence to the public, especially when a trial related to the case is underway. Many questions remain, but I don't know that we'll get answers. And I don't know that not getting answers necessarily equates to a cover up. Enjoying these videos!
Is it possible the police did investigate the rooftop but the body was placed in the tank afterwards which is why the dogs never detected any trace of Elisa and changes to the water weren't reported earlier? The tank may have been left open after the police were there? Probably completely wrong but it's a thought I had after listening to your theory on this being a stalling
If the LAPD watched the surveillance video, they would KNOW that Elisa never left the hotel, as there would be NO footage of her leaving... Wouldn't this knowledge lead them to deduce that she must be SOMEWHERE in the hotel? Would this be probable cause to search EVERY room? Wouldn't they search every day from the time they began watching surveillance videos up until 2/19 - the day she was 'accidentally' found in the water tank? Why would the LAPD suddenly stop searching for Elisa early to mid-February when there is NO footage of her leaving the Cecil?
+ShroomFactory Really good point SF! Why would they share the elevator footage publicly if there was no footage to suggest that she left? You've got my brain going again!
I’ve been binge watching ALL your videos since the Netflix Documentary & you are an AMAZING INVESTIGATOR!!! I think it’s odd that the Manager Amy Price stated that she contacted her mother before even calling the police. I feel she was put in tank. I agree with what you stated that the LAPD knew more than their stating. Their are so many more questions than answers when it comes to this case.
Here's another thought: I read they only searched rooms of guests not people living there. Something about the law and they didn't have a legal ground to enter the person's "home." I had to live in a hotel for 6 months after a storm took out my house. We were required to let the hotel in plus they had to come in and check the room after so many days, it was like every 2 weeks or something, because it was not zoned for living in. I don't think the Cecil was either so why use the excuse and not check ALL the rooms?
This may have already been answered , so forgive me if I'm repeating. Does anyone really know if the cameras ( besides the elevator cam ) are real or just props for the illusion of security? I mean , with all the different teams that have gone in and done individual investigations , running around with cameras, going out on the fire escape etc....Security has never shown up. Maybe the reason they only released the elevator footage is because it's the only footage they have. Just a thought. On a side note..love your videos, you're my 'goto' guy on this case.
Been watching all your shows on Elisa Lam, And my first thought when I saw the video, was she was drugged, or maybe having a panic attack. Maybe she was drugged by her previous room mates.
And... Now we know that Elisa was sharing a room initially but her roommates had reported her for odd behavior, perhaps the elevator scene isn't so odd? It's been told somewhere that the view from the elevator when Elisa first looks out to her right, would be the communal bathroom for that floor. Could she have been seeking out her former roommates to confront them about it? Is it possible they went down to the fourth floor bathroom expressly to avoid her? Could they have decided to have some fun with this clearly manic young lady and pretend to be sorry? To want to make it up to her by hanging out with her? I think so. Could they have gone to the roof for a private show of just what lengths this manic lady would go to and when they suggest or dare she goes skinny dipping in the tank, it all went a bit too far? Also, but this is stretching it. Is it possible they opened the top of the tank and she jumped into it from the elevator s ride building right next to the closest two tanks? Or did someone take her up there unconscious and drop her down into the tank from there, hence avoiding the more difficult path through the pump equipment... Wait... Those sniffer dogs did not pick up Elisa's scent on that roof... Could she have been carried, unconscious up to that elevator service building roof then dropped in the tank from there? Then there'd be no scent. I keep coming back to why those dogs didn't pick up the scent of decomposition from that supposedly open tank. It boggles my mind Geekendorx. It truly does.
I've seen in other cases {Kaylee Anthony to name one} that he scent of decomposition is unique and all pervading. It cannot be cleaned away and it cannot be masked. Where there's an extreme decomp like Elisa, that smell should have been dreadful up there. And with canine units, although it's typical to give them an item belonging to and having close and regular contact to the victim, which is a scent which is documented that those dogs failed to pick up, those dogs are trained to pick up the slightest scent of decomposition above all else! {The canine units picked up the scent of baby Kaylee in two places in the grandparents back garden where her mother had simply sat the bag containing a tiny body decomposed for only two days and the dogs in that case picked out those spots three whole months later: In Florida: Where there was almost constant direct sunlight all the time!} Quite apart from that, water aids decomposition and all seasoned cops know that particular scent as well. Why the heck didn't they smell her if that water tank was open? That tank was not open. The hotel staff have been told to say that to rule out foul play {And if I lived over there I'd go to the Cecil myself and ask some of my own questions. Off the record people tend to have better memories😏And I do have a strange knack with people thanks to my own supernatural talents lol} that alarm was not activated and people in and around that hotel know things! Just today after more research and seeing your latest shoots John, I'm starting to doubt her body was inside that tank the whole time. Was she stored elsewhere at the hotel until the units out ruled the roof and then moved there, perhaps in an effort to, as you say, delay the discovery of her poor body. Here's a theory.... Perhaps someone, either someone she knew outside the Cecil or one of her disgruntled room mates drowned her in the bath? {Far out I know but not so far out as some} hid her in a utility closet then moved her to that water tank. If the hatch was open, it smacks at someone wanting that body to be discovered. Perhaps way away from where they were to totally cast suspicion in the other direction. We know that parts of the Cecil contain some very nefarious characters who are probably seasoned criminals who know all about body dumps and detection. More brain scratching! Arrrrgggghhh!
Yes I get that too. But John was touching on the fact that the dogs didn't pick up even ordinary Elisa scents, like sweat or her usual perfume/deodorant etc. The scents we all leave as we go about our business. I've seen sniffer dogs work much colder trails than Elisa's and walk all the way to the bus stop where the victim got on the bus! But these dogs picked up nothing? It just seems a little odd. But you know that us chatting back and forth and sharing our opinions and thoughts helps us to get these things straight. I think it's great we can all do this rather than just sitting around wondering by ourselves 😊
I disagree a little.. the tanks are only 8 feet high on a 2 foot platform and it is the dogs missed the trail to the victim. Along with a lot of other thing in this incident.
+Midus Itis According to the autopsy, she did drown.. but several people have told me the amount of fluid in her lungs (and stomach) doesn't quite line up with a drowning victim.
Lots of questions. The door was heavy but how heavy? Somebody needs to weigh it. What happened to the cell phone. Where and when was the last signal. I still want to know if dark water was on tv on any channel the hotel had during her stay. If she was having a breakdown it could have gave her the idea to go up to the tanks.
John, I have googled Elisa Lam and have found out that in some blogger sites from China and that people that have investigated the access to the roof top was a little dangerous, but easy. Once the individuals that did this accessed the rooftop from the non- alarmed fire ecapes. They located a old wooden ladder on the water tank platform. They also looked inside the elevator shaft room where thaey found a box of various tools. This rooftop is not as difficult to gain access to as the hotel staff claims for it to be. Would it not be against city safety ordinances for access to the top of the water tank to be open??? Could it be possible, that I have stated in a earlier post, that instead of her dying from drowning due to the effects of GHB, that she possibly died from hyperthermia due to the temperature of the water inside of the tank at that time. Thanks for all of your hard work on this case.
+elfhelper 3 I don't know if the water would get cold enough for hypothermia, even in February California is relatively warm. I would think those lids should be closed (not sure if there are official ordinances to that effect) but worth noting the Chinese investigation video (where they get on top of the building and look down on the tanks) shows two of them without their lids on. I would think that would leave a contamination risk for the people staying there.
+GeekenDorx According to the link given below, the temps got down to 47 on Jan 31st and down to 50 on Feb 1st. That seems to me to be cold enough for hypothermia to set in, though I'm certainly not an expert on that. www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KCQT/2013/1/31/DailyHistory.html?req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo= I agree that the open hatch is a contamination risk. I just don't see why someone wanting to hide a body in the tank would leave the hatch open, regardless of the lack of traffic up there. (I don't really understand the idea that leaving the hatch open keeps the water from being contaminated quickly.) And if someone WANTED the body to be discovered, why put her in the tank? Still lots of questions. If she DID put herself in there, we're back to the question of why LAPD didn't find her.
+GeekenDorx I googled hypothermia in water and found out that at 70-80F, the body will be exhausted/unconscious in 2-12hrs, survival time 3 or more hrs. At 60-70F, the body will be exhausted/unconscious in 2-7 hrs, survival time 2-40hrs. At 50-60F, the body will be exhausted/unconscious1-2hrs, survial time 1-6hrs.Now this being said, as I have stated in a post under the employer statement, in the David Paulides book Missing 411: A Sobering Coincidence, young college men are being found in rivers and lakes and when the autopsy is done, the coroner finds no evidence of water in the lungs andthat the bodies are not in the water for as long as they are missing. In some of the cases, the bodies are tested for GHB and it is found in high amounts in their bodies. In all of these cases, the young men were outstanding citizens within their communities. GHB paralyzes the victims and also lowers blood pressure and heartrate possibly rendering the victim into a semi or unconscious state not beig able to breathe. thanks for the hard investigative and tedious work on this case. Keep up the great work.
Here are unanswered questions I still have. What happen to her Cell phone? Who was she playing with in the elevator. After watching that video, it was obvious she was being playful and not scared. Who were these shared roommates and why have they not come forward and made any statements be it public or with that little darkness over them and that fake voice box? Where did she stay at the first couple days when she arrived? Sometimes a 'speakeasy' means a shelter perhaps? Where is the rest of the video from the hotel? Why wasn't she picked up from surrounding businesses? Why are the employees of the Cecil or whatever the new name is, claiming they never turned the alarm off all the way up until Feb 19? Who was she holding the elevator for? Where the people she shared the room with the ones who lured her to the roof and did they have sinister plans for her as revenge for her 'bothering' them? What room was she exactly moved to and was there a big issue with it? Is the elevator video when the move was taking place?? Most of all, is her cell phone still active?
One point of indisputable evidence: Complaint of water pressure. Nail that time/place/date testimony down between complaint and logged time of complaint. ==== That is a definite date and time that the rest of the facts can be determined by. Whatever happened, the complaint was the beginning of the coverup (incompetence and/or conspiracy).
A couple things: The management was contacted first 100%. Her body wasn't found until hotel guests complained (to management) about discolored and terrible-smelling water, correct? So I'm sure management was the first to check on that. Now BEFORE that, hotel employees would have no reason to inspect the water tanks. They have nothing to do with a random disappearance of a guest. But if we say they did go on the roof for whatever reason and happened to see a body in an open water tank, they most certainly would have contacted management first, assuming management isn't the first to find her, right? I can see some employee finding a body, freaking out and calling a manager asking what they should do. The second point I wanted to make was about the 'Accidental' ruling in her autopsy. I suspect this was checked rather than suicide because self-drowning is a pretty rare method of suicide. ESPECIALLY in the manner she potentially did it. She didn't jump in a river or ocean, she just jumped into a water tank and took in water. It's weird. But this has happened before in murder cases. There was a case of a woman who killed herself via self-strangulation (not hanging), but it was ruled murder in the autopsy because it is such a rare form of suicide that they hadn't seen it before. So two random old men who happened to be fishing on the river next to the scene of her suicide were convicted of her murder. It is strange but if people want to die, they can achieve that in any way they please. And if you are having a psychotic break, god knows how you'll do it. I've always leaned toward suicide. The date rape thing is an interesting angle. An accidental murder, and the guy tried to hide her body. But if I put myself in that situation, I think I would just throw her off the roof and try and make everyone think it's a suicide. And also there weren't any super high doses of anything in her bloodwork, right?
+Cameron Brwdway From the chain of contact that is noted in the documents, you appear to be right. The maintenance worker contacted his supervisor, his supervisor contact the General Manager, so I think it's plausible and likely that the General Manager contacted the management company before calling the LAPD.Your theory on the suicide categorization makes as much sense as anything else I've heard, but marking it an accident vs. unknown cause is still strange to me. It appears to have created a potential liability risk to the hotel, and I'm not sure the LAPD can support that statement if they didn't even identify trace evidence to suggest how she got up there. Maybe having it categorized as an unknown cause is looked at unfavorably by supervisors or someone monitoring department statistics (I've just watched a story on HuffPost Live stating that LAPD has been miscategorizing certain types of crime to skew their stats and make their work look better than it actually is). Perhaps we have some form of that going on here.You are correct about her bloodwork, but they only tested for basic drugs. From what commenters have told me, certain newer date rape and designer drugs may not be detected by those tests.Nice to hear from you again Cameron. Have a great weekend,John
+GeekenDorx Oh you'll be hearing from me more as I love the channel. You do a great job! Though I lean toward suicide, I will concede that SOMETHING definitely feels off about the whole thing. That doesn't mean something is, but I definitely feel it just like zillions of others.
why was her clothes in the tank not on her body? and the blood level was missing? i do believe she was murdered. why don't some of you tweet: if the room mates of elisa lamb would come forward and let people know what sort of odd behavior she had that they had to ask her to leave. just a thought ..
they arent going to raise an alarm its bad for business. as i said in my last comment on the first vid. i am not sure i wouldve gotten my guests all riled up and take a chance of a dozen check outs. good point on the first few days in town too.
John, love you BrainScratch series. good stuff. After watching all of your videos on the subject. It is obvious that the hotel was involved with Elisa's death or hiding of body. They most likely had her phone also I believe. I was curios as to what other connections there are to the "Invisible Light Agency" other than name. I heard you mention them again. Possibly they used him in creating the elevator video ?
+tedd akdag They were located in a neighboring building. Some people think along the same lines as you, they could have helped with producing the elevator video, or editing it in some fashion. The one project I saw from them was a sort of marketing tool, and I've often considered the elevator video to have been designed for some form of public influence. A former employee has also moved out of the country pretty soon after Elisa was found, but that seems like it may be coincidental.
Watched your videos on Elisa's case and the most curious thing for me is why the messed up elevator video?? It's totally off in so many ways. Also, why are there no other video footage such as the surveillance cameras outside and inside the hotel? Why is everything else about her existence so sketchy and weird such as her family & their social media accounts as well as hers? So much here doesn't make any sense at all. Nothing matches at all. It's hard to say if the story is even real. Hoax? Conspiracy cover up? Paranormal?? I would like to hear testimony of the other people she roomed with. What exactly was her odd behavior?? Did she behave this way before going on this vacation?? You would think her family and friends would be more public despite any on going investigations or lawsuits. There are so many other cases in midst of investigation and lawsuits where family and friends still publicly made statements, pleaded for assistance or just publically spoke about how they missed, loved or worried about the person and the circumstances of their disappearance and/or death. So much doesn't make sense. I'm intrigued and hooked on the story but at the same time wonder if it's real. ...YET I can't stop watching videos or reading about it. LOL You do a great job! Keep us informed on what you find! Enquiring minds wanna know! :)
+Rose Ferrachi We share a lot of the same questions, and I originally came into this story believing it might be a hoax. That being said, after looking into this case for so long and now following the civil suit for her wrongful death, I believe she was real, but parts of the story we're being told may not be.
+GeekenDorx I recently subscribed to you today after watching you talk about the lars mittank case and the smiley face 1 and just finished watching all of the videos you have done on her and what I think stands out other than what I seen in comments and what you have said Is the fact it took the people staying in the room with her to long for them to say anything about her being odd because I feel like 1 night is enough time to realize I don't want to be around this person so either she goes or I go so I get the feeling someone if not all who was in the room had something to do with it and I feel that saying she was odd was sort of a cover up and I hope the police question them a lot because I get the feeling their story will change alot and a question I have which I probably missed in your video is how exactly did she die because if she didn't have enough water in her lungs or defense marks what was the actual cause
Ehhhhh!! Someone should start making t-shurts in memory of Elisa lam and sell them at "El Callejon" or in English "The Alley"!! That's a crazy market scene just a few blocks south from the "hotel of certain horror". Maybe that can light a small fire to re-open the case, and all proceeds will go towards Elisa's family or a fund set up in her name
I cant get past the first question...why that Hotel...? 2. missing footage...why? 3. why roomates...strangers, why not have the dogs sniff their cloths and see if the scent leads to the roof. 4. everyone here has great questions...maybe we should be the detectives.
I don't know if this has been asked yet, so excuse me for repeating it if it has. the employees state that there are alarms that go off if the door to the roof is open, but we have seen time and time again that is not true. There are youtube videos like John's where someone did open the door to the roof and no alarms went off and no security guard came to check out what's going on. Will this be brought up in court about the lies that was told by the employees? I mean from their comments they lied to the court and that is a felony. I hope the lawyer for the Lam's will do his homework and see that anyone can go to the roof with no alarms or security getting in the way. can youtube videos be used in court?
+Cheri pop I was wondering that myself. The Chinese investigator video clearly shows them standing on top of the elevator machine room, looking down on the water tanks (with two lids open), and the graffiti also proves that people access that roof unofficially. I would be very surprised if some of this info isn't brought up in court. That being said, the statements are very carefully written so that it's "according to their beliefs and knowledge." Essentially, they can be incorrect and still not held in contempt, which is why I believe the process for testing the alarm on the top floor will certainly be brought up and discussed.I did a quick search on using UA-cam videos in court cases, and it seems to be handled on an individual basis. If the video pertains to the case, I think it can be allowed.Have a great day Cheri Pop!-John
And the fact that twenty years plus as manager or chief engineer they would have been aware of graffiti on the skylight and water tanks if they ever thought to go up there ;)
one thing i seen people posting her stuff says she was still in san diego til 27th and the mex ital stalker post was while in SD and speak easy was awsome post was SD..and she posts the 29TH in LA land ectect..posts again at 345am and that was it as far as im understanding from another person s findings.....
***** ...so she had no phone in La,,that was lost? and laptop was her source?...yea i get the story up to La arrival ...im wondering if the laptop is missing then?...ive read but not sure of the source they got from..that her luggage was there but she and her lap top and phone were not there...ive read a new review of cecil that a couple arrived wento to dinner @ 950 pm and came back to the room ransacked...they were not helped as they were told they were the only ones with keys..so its seems people are getting stuff stolen when they leave...im wondering if thats what the knocks are??..ive read alot of story about people getting knocks...are they seeing if you are gone and then steal stuff as some employees i think have master keys
I have to say that it appears as though she was just having an extreme Bi Polar episode. I have watched several videos of Bi Polar people in a mania. They hallucinate things in their peripheral vision often. I watched a Bi Polar vid recently where the lady said that she did things here shrink called "bizarre". One of them was that she would see a culvert and crawl inside and stay there, just to feel "safe". My take is that Lam was having an extreme episode, got no help for days, and it culminated in her having acute psychosis. She thought people were out to get her, like many Bi Polar sufferers do. She made it onto the roof where she saw them big hiding place tanks. She wiggled through the 18 inch opening and once inside had to tread water until she could not anymore and drowned. SHe removed her clothes in panic. One question. How many pounds was the water tank lid?
Great video! I had never considered the possibility of the death/murder occurring separately to the hiding of her body in the water tank, but that is a very interesting and plausible angle. If her death was covered-up by the hotel initially, why would they put her body in the water tank though? Would this really be the only place in the entire hotel that they could be sure no one would come across her until they were 'ready' to find her? Doesn't it reflect even more poorly on the hotel - to have had guests bathing in and drinking water contaminated with human remains for almost three weeks - rather than just having a murder or suicide occur on the property? That leaves them open to lawsuits from every guest staying in the hotel at the time, and may also deter guests from staying there in future. Unless this deal that Herb Chase was a part of was watertight from a certain date, and anything that occurred after that point was of no consequence to him. Any thoughts?
+j Some people believe it my have been a move to get the long term residents to leave.. and it may have worked. I've heard there are only about a dozen left. If they all leave, the hotel might be able to finally change it's status fully and use all rooms as hotel rentals (I believe they are currently limited to half of the total rooms being rentable as hotel rooms).
Tuning in from Germany, ive got to say, this is BY FAR the best youtube video series i have seen for a very long time! I dont have the words to explain it properly because i am not a native speaker, but your research and analysis are flawless and very neutral. You dont hype things or make em very dark, you just hit the sweet spot! subscribed. cheers.
+Marius Winterfeld i agree, i enjoy it being a cut and dry approach and not off the wall.
Maybe the reason the police (not even the police dogs) couldn't find any trace of Elisa the first time they were on the roof was because her body wasn't in the water-tank YET. Maybe her body was placed in the tank only a while after the police had left the hotel the first time. It would have been a strange spot to hide a body for that long, to begin with - as decomposition takes places in the water:it can risk the life and health of all hotel guests.
+mokuskacska Very good point.. seriously what would it take to put some freakin' locks on those lids?
+GeekenDorx Integrity and care for safety; things they must lack!
+GeekenDorx Well, if any of the hotel's emplyee/s were involved in this, locks couldn't stop them, since they have keys. But it would stop a guest or outside person from accessing the tanks...
I'm surprised the people who were complaining about the water smell isn't suing the hotel, they took showers in her excrement.
mokuskacska i was thinking the same thing
Was Elisa even INSIDE the tank when the investigators were there with their dogs? Wouldn't an open hatch draw the attention of law enforcement?
Best online series about this case!!! I hope you can go to the trial and tell us about it.
+Anna Klein Thank you Anna, I will certainly try!
Ive been looking in this, ive noticed no one has a real time line of events for elisa. I mean there are quick refences here and there but no real time line mapped out. You probly go most indept up to when she is finally found. Where exactly did the police look on the roof. You'd think they also look on the roof next to the tanks. Wouldn't they have noticed the open tank. If indeed it was open. I know its difficult to do a time line since the info seems to be missing. I would love to hear your thoughts of how her final days played out, and all the mistakes made in the case. Btw love your channel seen everything youve done on lam.
Hey geek you think the reason they might have actual footage of her going to the roof which is why the keep searching the roof and meanationing the roof. Have you file a fio for all footage they have. Be something to look at. Becuase seems also fishy they were up there, and even bringing the dogs. Its strange.
More name coincidences (or not):
The hotel's chief engineer's name is Jose Pedro Tovar. The assistant medical examiner's name is Jason P Tovar.
Also, the maintenance worker who made those dubious claims is Santiago Lopez, and a former executive of the hotel (CEO) is Angel Lopez.
Hi 👋 2 years late myself.
Tovar and Lopez are very common Hispanic last names and they are in LA of all places.
I mean try replacing Tovar and Lopez with Miller and Wilson.
If you still feel the same way, fair enough.
So what did housekeeping/hotel management do with Elisa's belongings when she never returned to the room or check out of the hotel?? Did they not even suspect something strange when she never returned for her things? Did they call the cops eventually and report her disappearance? I need a solid timeline of events! *sigh. this case is swiss cheese. So many holes.
+unforeseeninsight I don't have info on the specifics of how her articles were handled, and I'm not sure if the hotel called the police. I believe the police were contacted by Canadian authorities when the parents notified them that they were no longer hearing from Elisa. I know the LAPD held a press conference 5 days later (Feb 6th I believe).
This case I feel wasn't being investigated properly by the LAPD because around the same time of her disappearance/death they were searching for Christopher Dorner. Which meant not a lot of resources and manpower were given to Elisa's case but rather to the Manhunt for Dorner
I think you may be on to something. It's clear that there was no reason to release the surveillance footage, especially in an altered state, unless it was shaping a narrative. I still think there was another person on the footage that was cut out with that missing minute. I'd love to know what Elisa's family thinks or what their lawyer's strategy could be.
Honestly, this channel should be the investigators of this case since you guys seem more dedicated and capable than the actual police!
+villainsrule
I like the theory that another person originally beeing on the tape. something about this tape is very, very wrong. ive seen alot of videos about it, half of them may be not true but they all are valueable. i also think, the idea, that her body was hidden and later actively placed in the water tank ( for what reason, we dont know, why place it THERE?) is plausible... hey, we all know that MONEY is the greatest POWER today. theres something very very very wrong with this whole case.
I've been aware of this case for some time through the book "Missing 411 - A Sobering Coincidence" by David Paulides.
Today was the 1st time I saw several videos analyzing the case, with many different theories, etc.
This series of videos are the ones I consider to stick to the facts and speculate very little on theories, congratulations for being so objective, it's not very common this days.
I consider this case to be extremely weird but there are some aspects that I find more "disturbing" than others.
For example, I read the autopsy report and I didn't saw any mention of water in the lungs... I'm not a doctor and maybe I missed that information, but if I didn't, when someone drowns, shouldn't there be water in the lungs?
What caused the lack of blood found in the body? There were no puncture marks, no signs of any way to extract the blood, where did all the missing blood went to?
The body decomposition is consistent with a couple of weeks, which implies that Elisa most likely was in the water tank on February 1st or 2nd. The police searched the hotel after that, twice, with K9 units, how did the dogs "missed" her scent, independently of how she got in the tank (forced or willingly), shouldn't there be traces of how she got there (fingerprints, fibers, etc.) that the police should have found?
If this was a murder, how did the assassin drowned her (if drowning was the cause of death) without leaving any evidence behind.... no scent from him, her, fingerprints, fibers, nothing?
She was supposed to check out on February 1st, why didn't the hotel noticed she hadn't done that, specially when they had to move her from the room she was staying due to the roommate complaints and that happened just 1 day or less before she had to checkout?
And the one that boggles my mind completely..... what are the odds that 2 days after her body was found, the CDC dispatched a team to LA to fight a tuberculosis epidemic that infected 4500 people and the test they used to check for TB was called the Lam-Elisa TB test... I just can't see this as a coincidence, but at the same time I can't see any explanation for such odd fact.
These are just some examples, this case is extremely bizarre in every aspect, I have no idea or theory of what really happened or how it happened and for some reason I have the feeling that the truth is far more complex and illusive than what one can think or imagine.
I just hope she didn't suffer, from what I saw and read it seems that she already had enough of that during her life.
R.I.P. Elisa Lam
If it was an accident, she would've struggled to survive, like you said: torn fingernails, screams, bruises, etc. I find it hard to imagine, if it was non-intentional, that she would just drown, serenely. The evidence of the lungs, and the evidence of the LAPD's previous corruption scandal, is haunting, to say the least.
Unconscious or already dead when placed in the tank !?
Don't know if this question has come up before but just wondering why it would take so long for the water pressure to be affected if the body was potentially in the tank for around 19 days?
+mojosydable Very good question, and if she's floating, how is it getting blocked? Clothing perhaps??
maybe because the lid was off the tank
The things that bother me.
1. what time die Elisa usually ring her parents? Did she actually go missing earlier in the day as she had failed to call on the 31st.
2. When did her parents contact the police? Early Feb is the best date that I can find.
3. What did the hotel do when Elisa failed to check out (or had the police or parents already contacted the hotel at checkout time 10am?). Was her room checked, where her belongings removed from the room for cleaning, were constant numbers called, police contacted?
4. What proof is there that the video released on the 14 th February was actually from the night of the 31st. As the time stamp is unreadable it could have been any time.
5. Where is the other video footage from her stay?
I was just saying where is the rest of her stay to a friend. Would love to see it. I find it curious that this is the only footage. You also make a good points. The open hatch concerns me, all the people on the roof over and over and no one noticed fishy
+Babelfroggy its interesting that when John went to the hotel they noticed other cameras in the hallway and pointing to the fire escapes. Surely if she'd made her way up there on her own as this psychotic theory suggests there would be some record of her doing so or where she went after the elevator scene! It all seems so wrong to me :s
L123Ryuzaki
the trial we should see evidence in the trail of all footage, if that happens it will all be released to the public. So far it doesn't appear to be any footage other than what is released which is odd. Considering how many camera's are in the area
+Chris Lucas im just thinking that on the autopsy they've put that it was an accident but if there was foulplay then we would know from the footage from those security cameras which havent been released
L123Ryuzaki
That the thing this footage looks tampered with who is to say the rest is any better. Till it released and we see it just do not know what the police where thinking or why. I am not even sure there is any footage, sure does not seem to be.
The abandoned part of the hotel is where you might find the answers or clues about this case
I really enjoy this series! Keep up the great work, John! :) The case just seems to get more mysterious with each video.
I'm still having a difficult time understanding how the water pressure could have been affected, if her body was found floating approx. 12 inches from the top of a 10 ft. water tank on the same day the water pressure issue was occurring.
I'm also curious to know if her body was indicative of a body that would have been decomposing in water for a long period, or if he body could have been placed in the tank recently before it was "discovered".
Are there only two maintenance men? If not, and all the maintenance men have a key to the roof, then possibly one of them killed her and disposed of her body in the water tank.
I also wonder how thorough the autopsy was. How many other bodies were waiting to be autopsied? How much sleep did the coroner have before performing her autopsy. I think there is a greater potential to miss things under several circumstances. If I were the family, I would want an independent autopsy performed, especially with so many unanswered questions.
+pam lewis The body did show signs of long term water exposure (green marbling of the skin being a major one). I'm not sure how large the maintenance staff is, but I would guess it's more than two people. In terms of the autopsy, we know Dr. Wang has a previous legal issue where it was revealed he didn't process a body correctly. You raise a lot of great questions!
Hi John, tuning in from Germany as well. One thing I'd like to mention, about Elisa's body found naked in the water tank, with her clothes around her. This fact actually points to the possibility that she was alive when she entered the tank. One typical cause of death when immersed in cold water, is hypothermia. When the body temp drops below a certain threshold, the hypothermic brain will play tricks on the body, and produce a false sensation of heat. Feeling hot will prompt the victims to take off their clothes (known as "paradoxical undressing"). Which of course only adds to the progress of hypothermia. As the body temp is falling further, the next stages are loss of consciousness, and finally cardiac arrest. So she may have taken off her own clothes, while in the tank. How she got there in the first place, remains a mystery.
Keep up the brilliant work! :)
I wonder if the reason that they released that short clip of her in the elevator to the public is because that was the only footage they have on the security cameras of her by herself all the rest of it she was with another person or people....
I have thought that too... Makes you wonder!! Odd that no other footage has been released... out of the whole hotel there was only her in the elevator? Hmm.
+Dale Martin It's only this short clip. Slowed down. Actual time censored.. Alterd...
This is the main problem I have here. Why wouldn't they release all the videos from this night without editing?
Something to hide!?
+ATom.Exe I agree. I think the police and her parents know much more than we do.
John this is your best video on the case. So many good points there. I really hope we will find out more about Elisa's room mates.
With reference to odd behavior on Elisa's part, I remember reading somewhere that the owner of The Last Bookstore reported that Lam had been talking loudly and perhaps acting manic at the time she visited. Other reports say this owner said she was acting normal and was happily buying things for her family. This seems to be as close as we can get to any real "interview" of people who actually witnessed Lam's mental state, which is why I keep returning to thoughts of that bookstore owner. Even then, with mental states, things change very rapidly. We don't know if she rapidly cycled, developed particular delusions, or felt so manic and at a loss of control she spontaneously decided to end it all (this does not seem to be the case given the elevator footage showing her to be relaxed and at ease.)
I am also interested in why LAPD did not interview/search the dwellings of those who lived on the top floors, where it's said that sex offenders and various other very sketchy people still live permanently. These people would be the first I would suspect as having killed her. Lam could very well have run into one of these people, especially if she'd been around the 14th floor. OR, she could have been staying with someone else.
Now, given that HAD Elisa's body been discovered in proper time (and they didn't try to cover it up), what would have happened to the Cecil hotel? My thinking goes like this: worst case scenario is that the Cecil could somehow get shut down and that big transaction with CBRE would not have been able to take place. CBRE misses out on its important purchase , and the Cecil is potentially torn down/renovated such that the Skid Row area's climate changes drastically. All the unstable homeless people that gather around there then would possibly have to go somewhere else if cops now regularly patrol this newly minted area, since customers/occupants of that new non-Cecil building would have a say if those types still hung out there, or if someone powerful but also relatively uninvolved/uninvested gets their nose in that part of town. Let's just say the order of things as it is now would be completely changed, and someone would likely not benefit as they did before for sure...
Question is, what's in it for the police? What would benefit them in this transaction of pretending to look for Lam's body but not finding it? Were they paid off by CBRE or related entities? (that's my bet.) Were they just lazy? (sadly, I wouldn't put it past certain institutions, but given that this case, that seems reckless if it's for no good reason.) Did someone related tot he hotel say "hey, I have some dirt on you, how about you just let this body marinate in the tank for a little bit for us here and we'll call it good"?
Also, was that report "people complained about her behaving weirdly" bit fabricated as well? We have no proof that these other roommates even exist, or said anything of that nature. We only have this "oh she was acting weird" and then the footage - which was clearly edited (and slowed down) to give a certain impression. Given the holes in these people's reports, we can't trust what people say, period. There is only what they don't say.
Thanks for reading if you happen to do so. It's late, if I said something that doesn't make sense pardon me, it's late, but I'm obsessed with this case.
Thank you son much John for these updates, I'm a huge fan and haven't missed a single one. Its so difficult to find consistent and new Elisa Lam updates amidst the massive repeat articles. really really appreciate. cant wait to see how this horrific even finally unfolds. if ever.
+Sean Thank you for watching and commenting Sean! I should have some updates on this in mid-December (first court date is 12/14).
Idk if you read my comments on your last few videos or if we just came to the same questions but thanks for addressing them in this video! These need to be answered.
Interesting theories, John! I always look forward to your updates and discussion.
These employee statements are so limited by semantics vs. the actual information they provide. We know that "regular" people have access to the roof, and likely the staff knows this. You mentioned graffiti being up there on some windows or a skylight (in an earlier video). Obviously the employees who go up there have seen it. Are they discounting that by trying to put the focus solely on the tanks?
I could also see if Elisa was having some kind of manic episode, this could be a catalyst for the roommate complaints, but also possibly make her a target of employees or regular/live-in residents. These would be the people who have more knowledge about the roof top and tanks in the first place. (And how infrequently they are accessed by staff)
Great updates! Here's a couple things though......... Scent dogs are not perfect. There are many cases where they have lost the scent of something and have been only a few feet away. Sometimes, they just can't pick up a scent. A great read is 411 by Paul Paulides. Its a book about missing persons in state parks. I looked up a few of his cases for more info on the internet. Some of the people were found during a second or third search, AFTER scent dogs where in the area and didn't pick up anything.
Most search and rescues are done at the most likely places. With this in mind, I can see the LA P.D. looking at the tanks briefly and going "Nope". I only know of 2 water tank deaths and the other was in Mexico city, believe.
The Coroner report is no surprise either. They get a report from the police about how the body was found, If they were or might have taken drugs, etc. This allows the Coroner to do an autopsy specifically for the circumstances. This usually allows for a better determination of what happened and saves the state a lot of money on an extensive autopsy. No sense looking for gunshot wounds if you're pushed off a building :-)
The not enough water in the lung theory. Scientifically speaking, it only takes a teaspoon of inhaled water to kill you. She may have well drowned.
We should be looking at the Elevator Footage.
Who did they edit out? This is obvious as it is quite clear she was fooling around with someone.
Why was she thrown out of her room?
Cecil Hotel needs to come up with a darn good answer on how she made onto the roof top. Obviously all the alarms werent working or they had windows opened on the fire escape.
And the main thing, How did she end up in the water tank? Everything I see points to this scenario...
She met or knew someone that she was having fun and playing games that day with. For some dumb reason they got out on the firescape and climbed to the roof, Maybe to look at the skyline. Her and her friend climbed to the top of the tanks, horsing around, and found out one of the covers could come off. They pulled the cover off to look in and Elisa took a header into the tank. She either became unconscious at that point OR the friend that she was with couldn't lift her back out. At this point she could have coughed up enough water, but not enough to get that last breath. Either way, she was unconscious or dead at the time and her friend flipped. He/She partially put the lid back on (It was found partially opened), and took off.
This would explain why she had no bruising or broken nails, she wasn't banging on the tank for help but reaching up for the hole, and quickly going back under.
SIGN LANGUAGE. Could it be possible that she might be using the sign language in video?
When you talk about the hatch on the tank are you referring to the square opening at the top? Trying to understand if the top was off of the tank or just the lid open...
there was a documentary about the smiley face murders where young men were found drowned. the controversy involved in those cases was were the deaths accidental or murder. one victim was found face up in the water, like the testimony of the maintenance worker who found elisa claiming she was face up in the water giving him the ability to identify she was asian. i dont think the cases are related but it was mentioned in that documentary that the natural position for a drowned body is face down. the fact that she was in a much more confined space may be a factor as to why she was face up, but it is odd that she was found in an unnatural position for a drowned body
I would love to see this theory be investigated by law enforcement because it's the most compelling.
you and your people do such great work. keep it up!
hey John, what if the body wasn't in the tank when the police looked and was later placed there after
+Jae Starke The type of decomp that occurred suggests she was in water for a long period of time, but you're correct in that it didn't have to be in that specific water tank. I've often thought about the possibility that she may have drowned in a different part of the building (which would likely have the same type of water).
My mind is completely blown by all of these Elisa Lam videos. I didn't think to look for videos like this at the time of her death but I have thought about her often. I'm glad I found these.
I want to know what the co-occupants of her room are saying about her "odd" behavior. What do they report? What was she doing that was strange enough to boot her from the room? What time on the 31st was she moved out of her room? Where is her cell phone? Did the authorities check her cell phone records? Was her cell used after her disappearance? How can the police not thoroughly check the area around the tanks and the tanks themselves? The police in L.A. are doing shoddy work if they didn't even think to check the tanks, it's just an obvious place to check and wouldn't take very long to take a peak. I believe someone has her cell phone or had it and made it disappear. Did someone get annoyed enough to hurt her or was she a victim of someone who preyed upon her especially since she appears to have been acting quite vulnerable and disturbed. Predators easily pick up on people who are not thinking clearly and target them. The missing phone makes me think foul play. If she lost the phone earlier, didn't realize she had lost it, and someone snatched it or found it, I guess it is plausible that the phone could just vanish, but most people would be going nuts trying to find their phone and would be talking about it to anyone who might help them find it. I get such a wrong feeling about this case. Something very bad happened to this girl and I believe this story will continue to haunt until the truth is found.
Hey there! I just recently subscribed a few days ago, I was looking thru youtube watching anything that mentioned Elisa Lam, I find it sad and creepy. I also realized your videos are from about 3 years ago, and for some reason or another her story is starting to trend again, at least on my feed. I was recently watching a video showing The Last Bookstore, which featured fairly prominently in the media as being one of the last places Elisa Lam was seen alive, uses a registrant privacy company for their website which is based in Burnaby, the suburb of Vancouver Elisa was from.
The address given is a PO Box on Canada Way in Burnaby.
However, the postal/zip code which is displayed for the address shows up as inside Forest Lawn Cemetery where Elisa's remains reside. Have you looked into this? You should, would love to watch a video about it. I love your channel!
12:22 wonderful point. I'm sure many departments do this and leave it at that. Thanks for putting in hard work to bring us easy information, man.
Actually, I spotted some possible contradictions in the testemonies. First, obviously is the alarm. 30 years of service in the hotel and the alarm wasn't triggered once? Maybe by an overcurious child or something, any harmless incident? Aside fromthe previous eposide my gut for mathmatics tells me that the alarm wasn't working properly. 30 years without insignificant incidences seems very fabricated. Secondly, it is stated that the water system is gravity operated, and Elisa was found in the tank floating, so why would that affect the water pressure? There's no evidence of something plugging the pipe either. This seems as if the maintenence guy already knew the body was up there and needed a reason to check and find it.
Also the police investigation leaves only two possible outcomes, either they completely screwed the case up, which is possible, if we remember that the smartphone wasn't tracked and the declaration as suicide was a favor to close the case. The other possibility is, that the body wasn't there during the investigation and was moved there after they had finished, because they wouldn't search there again.
Another thing that stroke me where the dates. The boss of the cecil had to do the testamony in march, while the workers did theirs in february on the same date. This seems to me as if their account didn't carry enough weight for the "alarm and difficult access" to the watertanks, so they called in the boss later.
+Kröte nschemel "This seems as if the maintenence guy already knew the body was up there and needed a reason to check and find it."
This. You're right man... no smell and the pressure thing... I wonder if the police interviewed the guests that complained about water pressure.
+Kröte nschemel Very good insight, and I believe you may be onto something. Great post and information!!
+Kröte nschemel Why assume that the smartphone wasn't tracked? Has it been stated that it wasn't tracked? It seems to me that many pieces of the police cover-up angle are based on assumptions that just because we haven't heard anything about the police checking the phone, interrogating the 506B roommates, or questioning the 14th floor inhabitants, it means that these were never done. The most persuasive evidence of police negligence is that they missed finding the body when searching the roof, if in fact the body was there at the time.
Your thought about why the water pressure was affected when the body was floating 12 inches from the top is a good one! But it doesn't necessarily mean that the maintenance guy knew the body was up there or that the low water pressure was a fabrication. He'd know that police could easily verify the low water pressure and the complaints of the low water pressure. It could be that the cause of the low pressure was something else and that the maintenance guy simply discovered the body while investigating. I'm not sold on the idea that the hotel was involved.
I honestly can't decide how negligent it is for police not to find the body on the roof. It could be that a policeman climbed the ladder on the structure overlooking the tanks, saw that no body was on the roof of that structure, and declared that area "clear" without walking across that roof to look down at the tanks.
another thing that doesn't make sense to me,
if her body was close to the surface of the tank, how would that be effecting the water pressure? or am I not understanding how the tank works?
+Courtney M Very good question. Maybe her clothes clogged the piping?
Oh, her clothes were in the tank? I thought they were found on the outside for some reason
Thank you for all of your videos.. One question, why is this case so fascinating ? I have been somewhat obsessed with this mystery since discovering it, and your videos are some of the best pertaining to the case.. Thank you again and keep up the good work.
+timbo slice I think the lack of a story that feels honest and truthful about what happened to her is one of the more compelling aspects. The more info I find, the less sense the "official" story seems to make.
I've posted a full message on this on Geekendorx: Retracing the steps of Elisa Lam so I won't repeat it all. But I researched the mechanisms of drowning and compared it to Elisa's autopsy report. As you mentioned John, the human body has certain mechanisms to help it to fight in a drowning situation. Your vocal chords lock down to prevent water entering the body. This mechanism can last a few seconds or can stay until the point of cardiac arrest. If this happens, it's termed dry drowning.
If a person is submerged in water and cannot swim for some reason, they thrash and fight and cause injury to themselves in the process. But we saw none of this on Elisa Lam. According to Wiki on drowning, a person will first ingest water into the stomach by swallowing it so it can't get into the lungs. Elisa did not have any water in her stomach at all, only scant red liquid was found. So coupling that evidence from the autopsy and the lack of struggle indicates to me that Elisa was either unconscious when placed in the tank, or knocked herself unconscious going in. Even an unconscious person is capable of drowning because eventually you will take a breath. If unconscious then it stands to reason that it wouldn't take too long in the water to drown, hence the reason that Elisa's lungs only contained what amounted to roughly a soda can worth of liquid in each lung. Had Elisa been dead when she entered the water, she would not have breathed in or swallowed any water because there wouldn't be a breathing mechanism to draw the water in. So it's possibly safe to assume she was alive, but unconscious in that tank. Now. Was she already rendered unconscious by drugs etc? Perfectly possible. But I had an incident during my misspent youth when I dived head first into the shallow end of the pool. I knocked myself a good one and even passed out momentarily, but afterwards there was no visible sign of my accident at all.
But if we go back to that autopsy report and look at the sketches of her body, you will see an area of dry, brown skin on her forehead that would be consistent with knocking yourself on the bottom or side of that tank on the way in. She's already rendered unconscious so it's quite easy for her to drown.
Now I've sketched a theory a couple of times that she was dared to go skinny dipping in that tank. If you look at the pictures of the difficult path through to that rear tank, it's a pretty big stretch that someone could carry a dead weight unconscious person through the pumping equipment and up the ladder in that tiny gap. Even carrying someone in a fireman's lift, just wouldn't cut it. Possible at a stretch yes, but likely?
I really don't think the how of Elisa's death is any kind of occult, strange occurrence. It's being covered up by whoever was with her sure. But the investigation and on going civil case worry me greatly. Too much smoke and mirrors for my liking.
Yeah I totally agree with you there Kungiiii. Somebody somewhere in this suggested that Elisa really didn't have enough water inner lungs to drown. Personally I think that one breath is totally enough. That's why I think she was either unconscious already or knocked herself out on the way
in. Surely, unconscious you wouldn't take too much water in before lights out.
I would really like to know why her alleged roommates have never been named or at least described (gender, age, nationality, etc.). I also find it curious that she was moved to a private room on the day she was supposed to check out. Did Elisa ask to extend her stay or was she moved to that private room in the middle of the night?
I only heard about this case on the 26/10/2015 when browsing UA-cam, something I very rarely do, I find your approach to be very logical and it puts a lot of stuff on the table. Is there a possibility Elisa made her way to the roof by the fire escape. I think, been new to this tragedy, a time line from 26Jan2015 to the discovery of her body would fill in a lot of questions, why was this not done.
Ray (Ireland)
+Ray H Hi Ray, I certainly think she could have used the fire escape, however I'm not sure she would have needed to considering that I know someone that tested that alarm door, and it failed. That being said, the direction that she left in the elevator video would have given her both options.
***American Horror Story Hotel update***: So last nights episode of AHS finally did include a character with links to Elisa Lam! It was a very brief, included in a discussion with two Swedish girls who had died at the Hotel Cortez in the very first episode who were attempting to find their 'Purpose' at the hotel to enable them to leave. During this discussion, a peripheral character was shown {Nothing like the young and beautiful Elisa} who had drowned herself in the bath tub in her room. The short skit showed the girl lying in the water for sometime and gaining an impressive state of decomposition before being detected due to other guests complaining that the water coming through their faucets tasted and smelled foul. I have a hunch that this is as far as AHS will go with links to the Elisa Lam case. Whether we see any more of this character in particular remains to be seen. And of course the punchline to the discussion with the hapless pair is that once you die at the Hotel Cortez, you can never leave. Will drop in again if anything else crops up😊
+Rachael Says Thanks so much for the details Rachael Says!! Much appreciated.
Great episode. I join with you in hoping those roommates can be tracked down and questioned. That's perhaps the best lead.
+Geoffrey Linehan If nothing else, I'm very curious to hear their thoughts on her odd behavior.
cheers for your work on this, such an interesting case.
to me finding out what happened in the original room, why she was moved, what was the behaviour that lead others to want her out. surely all of those from that room must have been thoroughly interviewed.
Has there been an explanation for the sandy film found on her body? I don't know anything about water tanks!
+alc4ever24 No official explanation. I wish they would have done some testing on it to confirm what it is/was.
+GeekenDorx It may be chlorine - added to disinfect the water (which is why the hotel stated the water was safe to drink even though the body was in it)
+ShroomFactory I think you may well be correct there about the chlorine. I worked as a pool operator/lifeguard for many years and it can leave a chalky film on surfaces and people .
Yes I'm also someone with a healthy interest in the Supernatural. Believe me after watching your vid on invisibility cloaks and the ELA I was terrified to the point of not wanting to walk around my home in the dark {Love it but it scares me witless lol} and the elevator footage does have that somewhat creepy element. I just keep coming back to the point that it's edited to look that way.
I don't think someone trying to protect the hotel or whatever would put her body in the water source. I'm sure these reports of guest drinking water contaminated by a decomposing body has not helped their reputation.
John. I keep hearing she was moved to another room on Jan 31. Then I hear the elevator video was about midnight Jan 31. Wasn't she due to check out on Jan 31? What happened with that
This isn’t a part of the case but I just wanted to mention that there is a music video by the Zola’s for their song called “Ancient mars”. They made it to show the days before where they imagined her enjoying herself and discovering things as a young woman travelling alone in a new city. I think it’s quite well done and does a good job to bring the focus back to her life rather than the way she passed and surrounding circumstances.
I recommend it!
Can someone clarify for me-- they said the "hatch" on the lid of the water tank was open, or the "latch," meaning was there an opening (hatch) that also had a latch that maybe had to be flipped up to then open the hatch. Maybe I heard it wrong, or maybe it's inconsequential, but it sort of struck me nonetheless.
I think it all comes down to the Cecil hotel does not care and the police does not care, just another " crazy" person in Los Angeles.
Hi John,
I have some news for you from a reputable news agency up here in Canada. It was posted Oct.31, 2015. There is lots of good information. Detective Tennelle gave his thoughts in a deposition. Of note he commented that they saw Elisa on surveillance tape come in with two unidentified gentlemen. They gave her a box and then she went up in the elevator. The two gentlemen were apparently never seen again on video. This raises a lot of questions. 1) Who are these two men, 2) What is there connection to Elisa 3) Where is the box, what was in it 4) why wasn't this video footage mentioned and shared like the elevator video?
I think this is highly relevant information to the case as far as potential suspects. Why is this coming forward now, two years after the incident?
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/elisa-lam-canadian-tragedy-turned-american-horror-story-1.3295239
+Brooke Spagrud Wow, GREAT FIND!!!
+Brooke Spagrud Great article!!! How is this the first time the public is learning about these two men who are the last "known" people to see her alive? Up here in Canada they would be considered persons of interest but now 3 years later good luck finding who they are. On the video she appears to be engaging with 1 possibly 2 people on either sides of the elevator door. If there are in fact people talking with her then they definitely seem to be careful to not be seen on camera. I find it odd that the video has been tampered with (the missing minute after she leaves the elevator) and I wonder if the 2nd person walks in view of the surveillance camera (thinking the door was closed) and thus it gets edited. There is absolutely no way she put herself in that water container. Her body was moved from where she died (I agree with the theory that there was some kind of date rape scenario that ultimately led to her death whether accidental or not) and was put in the water container along with her clothes. The Police in Canada and US are lazy. In this case they saw the video, learned she was bi-polar, made their conclusions and went thru the motions of an investigation believing the case would go away... when the focus didn't go away they started playing cover-up to protect their asses. Another question I have is with regards to the Maintenance worker who has been at the hotel for 30+ years... he seems to be the only constant during all these bizarre cases (Night Stalker and other murders and deaths) and unfortunate incidents.
+Rhett Burgess True - in the elevator video it does appear as if she may be interacting with 2 people.
The police dogs probably couldn't get her sent on the roof because she was carried up there and dumped in the water tank, she probably weighed less than 100 pounds. The question would be where was she raped, probably in a stairway, not too far a way because the perpetrator got her clothes and threw them in the tank as well.
I also wonder why was she on the 14th floor to begin with...don't they have cameras in the halls?? Strange that none of the footage of where she was coming from or what she was doing before she got on the elevator is released...
I wonder if police are looking at her cell phone records to help determine her state of mind that night, who she was communicating with..etc?
I think it's safe to say that the CBRE, "the world's largest commercial real estate services firm," has strong political allies & influences.
i go up there all time
no alarms at all.
+IAMSPLITTONGUE Have you been up there lately? I'm wondering if they're going to fix that alarm to try to help their lawsuit.
yes i have . and im not going to exposed what 3 windows are false labeled alarmed.
I know this video was posted in 2015, but I wanted to add to the thing you said @10:20 regarding the "how do they know".
They can't know, ultimately..
However, its a better decision to say "accident" for not only the peace of mind for the family "blaming themselves for not being there and forseeing her state-of-mind", but also allows her family to make a stronger legal opposition regarding the lack of residential security and protection within the hotel.
It really offers the best outcome for her (Ms. Lams').
Ms. Lams' family can also place the blame somewhere, which is quite normal for people whom are grieving to try and do and its less destructive to blame someone else, than it is yourself.
Thats just my opinion however.
I doubt that the girl in the video is Elisa just doesn´t look like her for some reason. Such a contrast to her pictures.
She was drugged by a person who didn't intend for her to die. Maybe a sexual desire for this attractive young girl who was alone and vulnerable in this seedy place. She died and the person became scared of the responsibility and decided to hide the body. Placed her on the roof, explaining the sand, but then noticed the tanks and decided to hide her there instead. Her body didn't fight the drowning cause she was dead or unconcious. The drugging explains her behavior in the elevator. The person may have been aware of the camera also, which is noticeable (I've seen it) and avoided it while coaxing her to them. The roof access was left open some days for the employees to smoke and whatnot, so I don't believe an alarm was set off. She was on the 15th (top) floor in the video, where maybe the persons room was. Maybe they did perform sexual acts (not intercourse) on her before realizing she was dead hence her being naked. The water and decomposing could have hid any signs of that. ???
That is a very good theory. I used to work for a semi big construction company. 90% of the clientele is commercial we had contracts with very big corporations which we had departments for each one and a set of crew members assigned to each corporation. In the 3 years i was there there was at least 3 incidents where human remains were discovered either by elecricians or plumbers while trenching to install new water lines, drain lines, or electrical lines. This was specifically during remodels of 1 story buildings and it is pretty much protocol to install new lines but its always in the same area obviously so its ground that has been dug up prior to us being there. And so when this would come up the protocol was to inform our chain of command then from there our higher ups would contact our corporate clients and then an emergency meeting would take place with the parties involved to get a vote on whether or not to report it to the appropriate authorities which the decision was always not to and the remains would be reburied and the construction would continue. I was never present during these incidents but the first time i heard about it was because a project manager at the office was showing our wharehouse manager pictures of remains they found on his site that day they let me look at the pictures. Im not an expert but the bones were piled neatly on top of each other with the skull on the very top of the pile and it looked like it was a dismembered body very disturbing. I wanted to report them so bad but considering the corporate giants that this involved i did feel like my life would have been in jeopardy. I really liked working there and was myself climbing up the ranks really fast but that was a clear indicator that it was not the place that deserve my blood sweat and tears.
Watched a few news videos during the time her body was discovered, and my first reaction was, they announced her identity very quickly. In most cases I have seen, or looked into, when a body is discovered sometime after death, in water, and obviously in a state of decomposition, they wait and use dental records, or dna. I realize she was missing and found with the clothes she was last seen in but even when the police pretty much know who it is, they wait to announce until it's confirmed. It would be interesting to look into how her body was identified.
+Crystal Potter That's a really interesting thought Crystal. I have also noticed that they will usually wait for a positive confirmation of the identity. I guess it's possible that the media jumped the gun, but they would usually be quoting someone. I wonder if a hotel employee leaked that to the press?
Hmmm I have always wondered whether someone can drown with only being 12" from the 'opened' entrance. I am sure she may have been able to reach up?
Sorry, you did address this. I haven't heard of anyone else looking into this critically, love it. Keep up the good work. Btw what about the claimed '911' call to the police? Don't they record everything?
John, okay new thought (at least new to me): Elisa makes her way to the roof on her own, then realizes she can't get back into the hotel. If she goes through the alarmed door somehow, perhaps it locks behind her, and she doesn't even know about the fire escapes. If by the fire escape, perhaps she cannot bring herself to climb over the edge to go back down. 15 floors is very high, and very scary!! She decides to find shelter and wait until morning, and in her state of mind, she finds the open water tank. It was pretty cool that night, and she was wearing shorts, so trying to find shelter seems logical.
You didn't make it to the roof during your visit, did you? I'm wondering just how freaky it would be to climb back down the escape from the roof.
+Luke Dahn I didn't make it up there, but from what I understand the top level of the fire escape is literally a metal ladder attached to the wall. About one level down from that starts a more traditional metal staircase like the one I showed in our pics. What you're saying is perfectly feasible in terms of her being too intimidated to go down the ladder (and consider her eyesight issues in the elevator footage).
The one thing your missing about the Cecil Hotel is that it is known as a "Skid Row Hotel". From those of us that had the unfortunate circumstance of having to stay in that area, the Cecil was known for having a floor of drug dealers who would cater to Skid Rowdians that get SSI/SSDI that stay in the hotel at the beginning of the month. When I saw the elevator video a few years ago, my first thought was she saw "something" she was not suppose to.Considering the hotels reputation, my thinking is that LAPD treated her disappearance as a missing "skid rowdian" and didn't exactly try very hard.
I think what the guys meant was that they didn't receive any calls to turn off the alarm due to it being set off. At least that's what I got from their statements. I don't understand how they (Cops and/or staff) didn't focus on the Elevator maintenance room or the tanks though.
Hey +GeekenDorx John! Hope you are doing well. You pretty much brought up every question that I had raised myself, so I just wanted to say great job on updating us all with the new evidence!
I definitely want to hear a report from these roommates, and know an example of HOW she was acting which caused them to want a switch. I also wanna know who they were. Were they females? Were they male??? Maybe The Cecil made the stupid mistake of housing her with guests who were known transients that couldn't afford the longer term stay, and maybe these people didn't have the most desirable reputations or backgrounds, and that's why they're covering it up? Maybe ELISA was the one who requested a new room bc the people she was staying with freaked her out? Maybe they took an interest in her, and combined with your theory about this big real estate company involved, a cover up was initiated?
My other theory is that the LAPD didn't even check the roof at all in the first place.
+Allison Keirsey Very interesting thoughts! I'm also questioning if the roof was truly checked. If so, they didn't seem to do a very good job of it.
Thanks John, with this series, you could help so many people, and whew glad you get comments still. God bless☺
Awesome questions, John! You reminded me of a few that I had forgotten. That time period you mentioned before she checked into the Cecil....there's just something that I just can't work out about that. I just can't explain what I'm thinking in regards to it. It's like something on the tip of you tongue, but everytime you go to say it, it's gone. If that makes any sense at all?! The whole fact of her being in a shared room before being placed into a private one...I don't know, that just sounds really like it's been made up to try and put a pretense to the "crazy" theory. It's weird that we were all lead to believe she was in a private room the entire time, but then find out that actually was wrong. Like you said John, why have we never heard from these people? You would've thought the media would've pounced on something like that! I definitely think your theory resonates with me. Of course, I still can't quite work out why or how she died, but the Cecil, and the people deeply involved in the hotel, covering up her body, and then dumping it in the tank....absolutely! Especially where money is involved, you betcha! I've always had the inkling that she didn't die there, but was placed there afterwards. I know we don't 100% know if the police did actually search the rooftop, but boy would it make sense if she was placed there after the search! I have still never understood why everything was in the tank with her either, ie. room card, clothes.... But if you're trying to get rid of evidence, thats a great way of doing it. Also, just a thought, leaving the body to be found a couple of weeks later, and also with the help of water, you're rape drug, or any drug in the system, theory would be a perfect way of hiding that bit of evidence too. Wow, my head is just buzzing!! But yes, definitely believe the hotel know more than they are letting on. Such awesome work, as usual, John!!! xo
+Jo Wallace It sounds like you're reading a transcript from my brain! Great questions and I hope we keep getting new information to hopefully answer them. Very good point about the water dilution too, perhaps someone was covering up a drugging or poisoning of some kind.
Aww thanks, John! lol! Gosh, I hope so.
+Jo Wallace Good points! The court documents state the room 504B but do not state the new room. I wonder why that is.
Hmmmm I wonder too. If they're happy to mention her original room, then why not the new room? You would think that would be a standard thing that they would record in the documents. Interesting.... By the way, thanks! :-)
Hey GeekenDorx, great Video again, my question is: The property guy herbe Chase might wanted to cover up the death of elisa, but it makes no sense looking at the history of the cecil with multiple deaths, suicides and murder happend there, what would one more dead body change?Even it was a international traveller the reputation is allready as low as possible. The property is only worth the ground were it stands the building its worthless.
+peter peters Good point, but maybe there's an aspect of the story we don't yet understand. For example, if it appeared that she was mistreated by an employee and that event led to her death, that would be a sign of pretty bad management and might have affected the decision of CBRE to work with Chase in terms of managing their other structures. If you were negotiating a deal to work with the largest real estate manager in the world, would you want info about a new, unexplained death on your property to be publicized? This deal could mean millions to those involved.The other events at The Cecil had happened years before Elisa's incident, and the only event to happen since (suicide jumper this past June) seems to have also gone silent in the media. Either the press isn't doing their job, or someone is doing very good at getting them to stop investigating this property.
+GeekenDorx well you might be right someone is blocking investigations. I can not belive that the LAPD is so incapable, especially on the roof investigations. By te way im going to visit LA in June 2016 some tips? Thx
I would be sure not to be at, or around The Cecil after 5pm. If you're looking for a Hoilywood Experience, I suggest going to Hollywood and Highland. It's a giant mall complex that is next to several Hollywood landmarks and has a great view of the Hollywood sign. :-)
great vid, as always! i noticed in the reports of the hotel staff members that, when answering the questions . they only specificly mentioned the watertank, i might have missed it, but i was rather surprised that, there was now question like: "how often do people enter the roof. without permission from the staff, on average. or something similar the questions are very focused on the watertank,perhaps to much even. if they were aware something occured on the roof, and they only are specificly talking about the watertanks. you could end up with something that may look like "plausible denial ability" . futher more, am i the only one missing any response by elisa's parents, she had contact with every day prior to her disappearance. and must be able to tell more about her state of mind and, where she stayed before she checked in the cecil... great effort on the money trail, BtW. you know what they say, when in doubt follow the money... if people are ruthless enough, to at least steal huge amounts of money during 9-11.. than at the very least hiding her death . is just hoiguit
something which is much easier to achieve
Also - I would be interested in seeing the LAPD's information about her cell phone records and locations before and after her check-in at the hotel. This could (at least somewhat) point to where she was spending her time.
I wonder what the odds would be of having media in the courtroom during these proceedings...
Pssst - you would be great media!
+sarahbramo I'm going to try to get in there! We will see..
John i have topic for you,could you do video about Highway of Tears?
Another question....why was there never any mention of fingerprinting the lid that was removed from the water tank?
I'm beginning to think her former roommates should be considered prime suspects, seeing how they had her removed from the room; perhaps she kept bothering them after she got into a new room and they (or one of them) decided to get rid of her for good! They could've accessed the roof by fire escape and drowned her once they got up there!
+MrApostolicpentecost I think at a minimum they should have been questioned by the authorities. Hopefully more details will come out on that as the case progresses.
Cameras is most likely why they ruled out foul play. The footage of Elisa on the elevator is NOT the only footage they used. If they had footage of her approach to the rooftop, it would have been very simple to conclude if she was acting alone or being lead.
Jeez, John! Change your t-shirt more often! (Joke ;) )
I really like the way your theory explains the slowing down of the footage (as in why it would be in someone's interest to do so), which is also why they would want to scramble the time code which I am sure will be brought up in court. Because they keep on saying how good the security system is and that the alarm would have gone off, maybe they told the police this at the time and the police decided it wouldn't be worth checking (but since the discovery made up the searching of the roof to cover their backs).
I am sure I have got this wrong but her departure date was the 31st but the footage was from the night of 31st / morning of the 1st of February? Had she extended her stay or have I got the dates wrong?
Anyway, great work as always!
did Elisa have the same USC college dorm room outfit on when she passed away, or did she have different clothes on ? from the handful of pictures of her on the WEBB, she seems to have a good sense of fashion, 3 red items she had on makes her look more of a sporty athletic type a personality in general. and not the delicate and smaller person in photos. i think person in video is a stunt double actress pretending to be Elisa that came straight from her dorm room at USC. there is always a smudge on her face on that video, thats not ELISA! sorry for some reason i cant post a comment but i can somehow post a reply on a PS3. if you can repost this for me then much obliged thank you
+Veggie Gamer HAHA! That was one heck of a long recording session (nearly two hours of me blabbing at myself). :-) Yeah, I'm not sure about that check out date issue either.. unless the hotel considers it by night (as in she was staying on the night of the 31st). Why would they move her to a private room on the same day she is checking out? I would think they would just ask her to leave, or at best have her items kept at the bell desk. I do hope more info about that discrepancy comes out.Have a great weekend Veggie Gamer!
+Fred Mcbane Hi Fred, she was found naked but her clothes were in the water tank with her (as well as a watch and her hotel key). I think she was dressed in "comfy clothes" and not like she was going out for the night. She also did not appear to have her purse or any cash/ID/etc.There are a lot of people that question if it's really her in that footage, and I can definitely agree that with the horrible quality, it would be easy to find a double and film something like that. All that being said, we do know that she at least truly died there, since there is an active court case related to it going on.
+CloakAnd Dagger I'm pretty certain those were more like pajamas than clothes she would wear out (in the elevator video at least).
GeekenDorx As someone that has never worked in a hotel, that seems like a very odd use of the term "check out date" to me, but maybe you are right, maybe that is just the way they word it.
Hope you have a great weekend too!
If the maintenance man says he never shut off alarm to roof, perhaps the police never actually checked the roof in preliminary checks.It wasn't actually checked until the man found the body.Therefore adding to the shoddy police work of this investigation.
Interesting how The Cecil was approved for a $100,000,000 renovation. What would you do for $100 million? Easily money people would kill for. After all this time, I still think there is more to this case.
Great video! I had pretty much accepted the accidental death scenario and still lean in that direction, but some great questions are posed here along with some excellent thoughts in the comments.
One thought about the LAPD. It could be that they're covering things up. It could also simply be that they have much more evidence supporting the accidental death scenario that we don't know about. It could be that they followed every lead mentioned in the video and in various comments (e.g. the roommates in Room 506B, the occupants on the 14th floor, etc.) and all evidence points to accidental death. I also seem to recall that the police went through hours and hours of additional surveillance footage. They may have seen Elisa acting even more psychotic than in the elevator footage. Who knows. I don't know that any police department is in the habit of turning over evidence to the public, especially when a trial related to the case is underway. Many questions remain, but I don't know that we'll get answers. And I don't know that not getting answers necessarily equates to a cover up.
Enjoying these videos!
+Luke Dahn Thanks Luke!
maybe like you said__ she's not a real person.
Is it possible the police did investigate the rooftop but the body was placed in the tank afterwards which is why the dogs never detected any trace of Elisa and changes to the water weren't reported earlier? The tank may have been left open after the police were there? Probably completely wrong but it's a thought I had after listening to your theory on this being a stalling
+L123Ryuzaki I think it is indeed possible.. especially if someone at the hotel (resident or employee) was in fact responsible for hiding her.
If the LAPD watched the surveillance video, they would KNOW that Elisa never left the hotel, as there would be NO footage of her leaving... Wouldn't this knowledge lead them to deduce that she must be SOMEWHERE in the hotel? Would this be probable cause to search EVERY room? Wouldn't they search every day from the time they began watching surveillance videos up until 2/19 - the day she was 'accidentally' found in the water tank? Why would the LAPD suddenly stop searching for Elisa early to mid-February when there is NO footage of her leaving the Cecil?
+ShroomFactory Really good point SF! Why would they share the elevator footage publicly if there was no footage to suggest that she left? You've got my brain going again!
I’ve been binge watching ALL your videos since the Netflix Documentary & you are an AMAZING INVESTIGATOR!!! I think it’s odd that the Manager Amy Price stated that she contacted her mother before even calling the police. I feel she was put in tank. I agree with what you stated that the LAPD knew more than their stating. Their are so many more questions than answers when it comes to this case.
Here's another thought: I read they only searched rooms of guests not people living there. Something about the law and they didn't have a legal ground to enter the person's "home." I had to live in a hotel for 6 months after a storm took out my house. We were required to let the hotel in plus they had to come in and check the room after so many days, it was like every 2 weeks or something, because it was not zoned for living in. I don't think the Cecil was either so why use the excuse and not check ALL the rooms?
This may have already been answered , so forgive me if I'm repeating. Does anyone really know if the cameras ( besides the elevator cam ) are real or just props for the illusion of security? I mean , with all the different teams that have gone in and done individual investigations , running around with cameras, going out on the fire escape etc....Security has never shown up. Maybe the reason they only released the elevator footage is because it's the only footage they have. Just a thought. On a side note..love your videos, you're my 'goto' guy on this case.
Been watching all your shows on Elisa Lam, And my first thought when I saw the video, was she was drugged, or maybe having a panic attack. Maybe she was drugged by her previous room mates.
And... Now we know that Elisa was sharing a room initially but her roommates had reported her for odd behavior, perhaps the elevator scene isn't so odd? It's been told somewhere that the view from the elevator when Elisa first looks out to her right, would be the communal bathroom for that floor. Could she have been seeking out her former roommates to confront them about it? Is it possible they went down to the fourth floor bathroom expressly to avoid her? Could they have decided to have some fun with this clearly manic young lady and pretend to be sorry? To want to make it up to her by hanging out with her?
I think so. Could they have gone to the roof for a private show of just what lengths this manic lady would go to and when they suggest or dare she goes skinny dipping in the tank, it all went a bit too far?
Also, but this is stretching it. Is it possible they opened the top of the tank and she jumped into it from the elevator s ride building right next to the closest two tanks? Or did someone take her up there unconscious and drop her down into the tank from there, hence avoiding the more difficult path through the pump equipment...
Wait... Those sniffer dogs did not pick up Elisa's scent on that roof... Could she have been carried, unconscious up to that elevator service building roof then dropped in the tank from there? Then there'd be no scent.
I keep coming back to why those dogs didn't pick up the scent of decomposition from that supposedly open tank. It boggles my mind Geekendorx. It truly does.
+Rachael Says Same here. Numerous canine units, and two rooftop investigations. Something doesn't seem right about that.
I've seen in other cases {Kaylee Anthony to name one} that he scent of decomposition is unique and all pervading. It cannot be cleaned away and it cannot be masked. Where there's an extreme decomp like Elisa, that smell should have been dreadful up there. And with canine units, although it's typical to give them an item belonging to and having close and regular contact to the victim, which is a scent which is documented that those dogs failed to pick up, those dogs are trained to pick up the slightest scent of decomposition above all else! {The canine units picked up the scent of baby Kaylee in two places in the grandparents back garden where her mother had simply sat the bag containing a tiny body decomposed for only two days and the dogs in that case picked out those spots three whole months later: In Florida: Where there was almost constant direct sunlight all the time!}
Quite apart from that, water aids decomposition and all seasoned cops know that particular scent as well. Why the heck didn't they smell her if that water tank was open?
That tank was not open. The hotel staff have been told to say that to rule out foul play {And if I lived over there I'd go to the Cecil myself and ask some of my own questions. Off the record people tend to have better memories😏And I do have a strange knack with people thanks to my own supernatural talents lol} that alarm was not activated and people in and around that hotel know things!
Just today after more research and seeing your latest shoots John, I'm starting to doubt her body was inside that tank the whole time. Was she stored elsewhere at the hotel until the units out ruled the roof and then moved there, perhaps in an effort to, as you say, delay the discovery of her poor body.
Here's a theory.... Perhaps someone, either someone she knew outside the Cecil or one of her disgruntled room mates drowned her in the bath? {Far out I know but not so far out as some} hid her in a utility closet then moved her to that water tank.
If the hatch was open, it smacks at someone wanting that body to be discovered. Perhaps way away from where they were to totally cast suspicion in the other direction.
We know that parts of the Cecil contain some very nefarious characters who are probably seasoned criminals who know all about body dumps and detection.
More brain scratching! Arrrrgggghhh!
Yes I get that too. But John was touching on the fact that the dogs didn't pick up even ordinary Elisa scents, like sweat or her usual perfume/deodorant etc. The scents we all leave as we go about our business. I've seen sniffer dogs work much colder trails than Elisa's and walk all the way to the bus stop where the victim got on the bus! But these dogs picked up nothing? It just seems a little odd.
But you know that us chatting back and forth and sharing our opinions and thoughts helps us to get these things straight. I think it's great we can all do this rather than just sitting around wondering by ourselves 😊
I disagree a little.. the tanks are only 8 feet high on a 2 foot platform and it is the dogs missed the trail to the victim. Along with a lot of other thing in this incident.
Excellent point.
Did she drown?
Does the water in her lungs, her lungs (autopsy), that of a person that drowned?
+Midus Itis According to the autopsy, she did drown.. but several people have told me the amount of fluid in her lungs (and stomach) doesn't quite line up with a drowning victim.
Lots of questions. The door was heavy but how heavy? Somebody needs to weigh it. What happened to the cell phone. Where and when was the last signal. I still want to know if dark water was on tv on any channel the hotel had during her stay. If she was having a breakdown it could have gave her the idea to go up to the tanks.
John, I have googled Elisa Lam and have found out that in some blogger sites from China and that people that have investigated the access to the roof top was a little dangerous, but easy. Once the individuals that did this accessed the rooftop from the non- alarmed fire ecapes. They located a old wooden ladder on the water tank platform. They also looked inside the elevator shaft room where thaey found a box of various tools. This rooftop is not as difficult to gain access to as the hotel staff claims for it to be. Would it not be against city safety ordinances for access to the top of the water tank to be open??? Could it be possible, that I have stated in a earlier post, that instead of her dying from drowning due to the effects of GHB, that she possibly died from hyperthermia due to the temperature of the water inside of the tank at that time. Thanks for all of your hard work on this case.
+elfhelper 3 I don't know if the water would get cold enough for hypothermia, even in February California is relatively warm. I would think those lids should be closed (not sure if there are official ordinances to that effect) but worth noting the Chinese investigation video (where they get on top of the building and look down on the tanks) shows two of them without their lids on. I would think that would leave a contamination risk for the people staying there.
+GeekenDorx According to the link given below, the temps got down to 47 on Jan 31st and down to 50 on Feb 1st. That seems to me to be cold enough for hypothermia to set in, though I'm certainly not an expert on that.
www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KCQT/2013/1/31/DailyHistory.html?req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=
I agree that the open hatch is a contamination risk. I just don't see why someone wanting to hide a body in the tank would leave the hatch open, regardless of the lack of traffic up there. (I don't really understand the idea that leaving the hatch open keeps the water from being contaminated quickly.) And if someone WANTED the body to be discovered, why put her in the tank?
Still lots of questions. If she DID put herself in there, we're back to the question of why LAPD didn't find her.
+GeekenDorx WhenwW
+GeekenDorx I googled hypothermia in water and found out that at 70-80F, the body will be exhausted/unconscious in 2-12hrs, survival time 3 or more hrs. At 60-70F, the body will be exhausted/unconscious in 2-7 hrs, survival time 2-40hrs. At 50-60F, the body will be exhausted/unconscious1-2hrs, survial time 1-6hrs.Now this being said, as I have stated in a post under the employer statement, in the David Paulides book Missing 411: A Sobering Coincidence, young college men are being found in rivers and lakes and when the autopsy is done, the coroner finds no evidence of water in the lungs andthat the bodies are not in the water for as long as they are missing. In some of the cases, the bodies are tested for GHB and it is found in high amounts in their bodies. In all of these cases, the young men were outstanding citizens within their communities. GHB paralyzes the victims and also lowers blood pressure and heartrate possibly rendering the victim into a semi or unconscious state not beig able to breathe. thanks for the hard investigative and tedious work on this case. Keep up the great work.
Awesome research and info elfhelper3! Thanks so much for sharing that with us!!
Here are unanswered questions I still have. What happen to her Cell phone? Who was she playing with in the elevator. After watching that video, it was obvious she was being playful and not scared. Who were these shared roommates and why have they not come forward and made any statements be it public or with that little darkness over them and that fake voice box? Where did she stay at the first couple days when she arrived? Sometimes a 'speakeasy' means a shelter perhaps? Where is the rest of the video from the hotel? Why wasn't she picked up from surrounding businesses? Why are the employees of the Cecil or whatever the new name is, claiming they never turned the alarm off all the way up until Feb 19? Who was she holding the elevator for? Where the people she shared the room with the ones who lured her to the roof and did they have sinister plans for her as revenge for her 'bothering' them? What room was she exactly moved to and was there a big issue with it? Is the elevator video when the move was taking place?? Most of all, is her cell phone still active?
One point of indisputable evidence:
Complaint of water pressure.
Nail that time/place/date testimony down between complaint and logged time of complaint.
====
That is a definite date and time that the rest of the facts can be determined by.
Whatever happened, the complaint was the beginning of the coverup (incompetence and/or conspiracy).
A couple things:
The management was contacted first 100%. Her body wasn't found until hotel guests complained (to management) about discolored and terrible-smelling water, correct? So I'm sure management was the first to check on that. Now BEFORE that, hotel employees would have no reason to inspect the water tanks. They have nothing to do with a random disappearance of a guest. But if we say they did go on the roof for whatever reason and happened to see a body in an open water tank, they most certainly would have contacted management first, assuming management isn't the first to find her, right? I can see some employee finding a body, freaking out and calling a manager asking what they should do.
The second point I wanted to make was about the 'Accidental' ruling in her autopsy. I suspect this was checked rather than suicide because self-drowning is a pretty rare method of suicide. ESPECIALLY in the manner she potentially did it. She didn't jump in a river or ocean, she just jumped into a water tank and took in water. It's weird. But this has happened before in murder cases. There was a case of a woman who killed herself via self-strangulation (not hanging), but it was ruled murder in the autopsy because it is such a rare form of suicide that they hadn't seen it before. So two random old men who happened to be fishing on the river next to the scene of her suicide were convicted of her murder. It is strange but if people want to die, they can achieve that in any way they please. And if you are having a psychotic break, god knows how you'll do it.
I've always leaned toward suicide. The date rape thing is an interesting angle. An accidental murder, and the guy tried to hide her body. But if I put myself in that situation, I think I would just throw her off the roof and try and make everyone think it's a suicide. And also there weren't any super high doses of anything in her bloodwork, right?
+Cameron Brwdway From the chain of contact that is noted in the documents, you appear to be right. The maintenance worker contacted his supervisor, his supervisor contact the General Manager, so I think it's plausible and likely that the General Manager contacted the management company before calling the LAPD.Your theory on the suicide categorization makes as much sense as anything else I've heard, but marking it an accident vs. unknown cause is still strange to me. It appears to have created a potential liability risk to the hotel, and I'm not sure the LAPD can support that statement if they didn't even identify trace evidence to suggest how she got up there. Maybe having it categorized as an unknown cause is looked at unfavorably by supervisors or someone monitoring department statistics (I've just watched a story on HuffPost Live stating that LAPD has been miscategorizing certain types of crime to skew their stats and make their work look better than it actually is). Perhaps we have some form of that going on here.You are correct about her bloodwork, but they only tested for basic drugs. From what commenters have told me, certain newer date rape and designer drugs may not be detected by those tests.Nice to hear from you again Cameron. Have a great weekend,John
+GeekenDorx Oh you'll be hearing from me more as I love the channel. You do a great job!
Though I lean toward suicide, I will concede that SOMETHING definitely feels off about the whole thing. That doesn't mean something is, but I definitely feel it just like zillions of others.
why was her clothes in the tank not on her body? and the blood level was missing? i do believe she was murdered. why don't some of you tweet: if the room mates of elisa lamb would come forward and let people know what sort of odd behavior she had that they had to ask her to leave. just a thought ..
they arent going to raise an alarm its bad for business. as i said in my last comment on the first vid. i am not sure i wouldve gotten my guests all riled up and take a chance of a dozen check outs.
good point on the first few days in town too.
John, love you BrainScratch series. good stuff. After watching all of your videos on the subject. It is obvious that the hotel was involved with Elisa's death or hiding of body. They most likely had her phone also I believe. I was curios as to what other connections there are to the "Invisible Light Agency" other than name. I heard you mention them again. Possibly they used him in creating the elevator video ?
+tedd akdag They were located in a neighboring building. Some people think along the same lines as you, they could have helped with producing the elevator video, or editing it in some fashion. The one project I saw from them was a sort of marketing tool, and I've often considered the elevator video to have been designed for some form of public influence. A former employee has also moved out of the country pretty soon after Elisa was found, but that seems like it may be coincidental.
Watched your videos on Elisa's case and the most curious thing for me is why the messed up elevator video?? It's totally off in so many ways. Also, why are there no other video footage such as the surveillance cameras outside and inside the hotel? Why is everything else about her existence so sketchy and weird such as her family & their social media accounts as well as hers? So much here doesn't make any sense at all. Nothing matches at all. It's hard to say if the story is even real. Hoax? Conspiracy cover up? Paranormal?? I would like to hear testimony of the other people she roomed with. What exactly was her odd behavior?? Did she behave this way before going on this vacation?? You would think her family and friends would be more public despite any on going investigations or lawsuits. There are so many other cases in midst of investigation and lawsuits where family and friends still publicly made statements, pleaded for assistance or just publically spoke about how they missed, loved or worried about the person and the circumstances of their disappearance and/or death.
So much doesn't make sense. I'm intrigued and hooked on the story but at the same time wonder if it's real. ...YET I can't stop watching videos or reading about it. LOL
You do a great job! Keep us informed on what you find! Enquiring minds wanna know! :)
+Rose Ferrachi We share a lot of the same questions, and I originally came into this story believing it might be a hoax. That being said, after looking into this case for so long and now following the civil suit for her wrongful death, I believe she was real, but parts of the story we're being told may not be.
+GeekenDorx I recently subscribed to you today after watching you talk about the lars mittank case and the smiley face 1 and just finished watching all of the videos you have done on her and what I think stands out other than what I seen in comments and what you have said Is the fact it took the people staying in the room with her to long for them to say anything about her being odd because I feel like 1 night is enough time to realize I don't want to be around this person so either she goes or I go so I get the feeling someone if not all who was in the room had something to do with it and I feel that saying she was odd was sort of a cover up and I hope the police question them a lot because I get the feeling their story will change alot and a question I have which I probably missed in your video is how exactly did she die because if she didn't have enough water in her lungs or defense marks what was the actual cause
Ehhhhh!! Someone should start making t-shurts in memory of Elisa lam and sell them at "El Callejon" or in English "The Alley"!! That's a crazy market scene just a few blocks south from the "hotel of certain horror". Maybe that can light a small fire to re-open the case, and all proceeds will go towards Elisa's family or a fund set up in her name
I cant get past the first question...why that Hotel...?
2. missing footage...why?
3. why roomates...strangers, why not have the dogs sniff their cloths and see if the scent leads to the roof.
4. everyone here has great questions...maybe we should be the detectives.
I don't know if this has been asked yet, so excuse me for repeating it if it has. the employees state that there are alarms that go off if the door to the roof is open, but we have seen time and time again that is not true. There are youtube videos like John's where someone did open the door to the roof and no alarms went off and no security guard came to check out what's going on. Will this be brought up in court about the lies that was told by the employees? I mean from their comments they lied to the court and that is a felony. I hope the lawyer for the Lam's will do his homework and see that anyone can go to the roof with no alarms or security getting in the way. can youtube videos be used in court?
+Cheri pop I was wondering that myself. The Chinese investigator video clearly shows them standing on top of the elevator machine room, looking down on the water tanks (with two lids open), and the graffiti also proves that people access that roof unofficially. I would be very surprised if some of this info isn't brought up in court. That being said, the statements are very carefully written so that it's "according to their beliefs and knowledge." Essentially, they can be incorrect and still not held in contempt, which is why I believe the process for testing the alarm on the top floor will certainly be brought up and discussed.I did a quick search on using UA-cam videos in court cases, and it seems to be handled on an individual basis. If the video pertains to the case, I think it can be allowed.Have a great day Cheri Pop!-John
And the fact that twenty years plus as manager or chief engineer they would have been aware of graffiti on the skylight and water tanks if they ever thought to go up there ;)
one thing i seen people posting her stuff says she was still in san diego til 27th and the mex ital stalker post was while in SD and speak easy was awsome post was SD..and she posts the 29TH in LA land ectect..posts again at 345am and that was it as far as im understanding from another person s findings.....
***** ...so she had no phone in La,,that was lost? and laptop was her source?...yea i get the story up to La arrival ...im wondering if the laptop is missing then?...ive read but not sure of the source they got from..that her luggage was there but she and her lap top and phone were not there...ive read a new review of cecil that a couple arrived wento to dinner @ 950 pm and came back to the room ransacked...they were not helped as they were told they were the only ones with keys..so its seems people are getting stuff stolen when they leave...im wondering if thats what the knocks are??..ive read alot of story about people getting knocks...are they seeing if you are gone and then steal stuff as some employees i think have master keys
***** i dont recall any pay phones around but i may be wrong...good to take note of though..thnx
I have to say that it appears as though she was just having an extreme Bi Polar episode.
I have watched several videos of Bi Polar people in a mania. They hallucinate things in their peripheral vision often. I watched a Bi Polar vid recently where the lady said that she did things here shrink called "bizarre". One of them was that she would see a culvert and crawl inside and stay there, just to feel "safe".
My take is that Lam was having an extreme episode, got no help for days, and it culminated in her having acute psychosis. She thought people were out to get her, like many Bi Polar sufferers do. She made it onto the roof where she saw them big hiding place tanks. She wiggled through the 18 inch opening and once inside had to tread water until she could not anymore and drowned. SHe removed her clothes in panic.
One question. How many pounds was the water tank lid?
There wasnt water in her lungs or stomach. How did she drown?
HUGO FUGUSEV i agree. i have alot of experience dealing with people with bipolar and psychosis and this is a classic case of that.
Great video! I had never considered the possibility of the death/murder occurring separately to the hiding of her body in the water tank, but that is a very interesting and plausible angle.
If her death was covered-up by the hotel initially, why would they put her body in the water tank though? Would this really be the only place in the entire hotel that they could be sure no one would come across her until they were 'ready' to find her? Doesn't it reflect even more poorly on the hotel - to have had guests bathing in and drinking water contaminated with human remains for almost three weeks - rather than just having a murder or suicide occur on the property? That leaves them open to lawsuits from every guest staying in the hotel at the time, and may also deter guests from staying there in future.
Unless this deal that Herb Chase was a part of was watertight from a certain date, and anything that occurred after that point was of no consequence to him. Any thoughts?
+j Some people believe it my have been a move to get the long term residents to leave.. and it may have worked. I've heard there are only about a dozen left. If they all leave, the hotel might be able to finally change it's status fully and use all rooms as hotel rentals (I believe they are currently limited to half of the total rooms being rentable as hotel rooms).