Wow. I feel like those who don't really know the church from behind the scenes just got a real taste of what it's like. And it is freakin messy. But man, that's so freakin awesome. What humility it takes to admit the things he admitted. And that, to me at least, feels like the resurrection.
As a new Christian sometimes, The Bible can be a little hard for me to understand, Well truth be known Johns big red ball can be too, But anyway all i can say is Rob Bell is inspiring in his preaching. ( LOVE FROM THE UK )
God’s love is manifest by His stepping into our classroom and subjecting Himself to all we must endure even to physical death. He did this in the form of The Son both of God and of Adam. In Christ we fathom the pure simplicity of God, His grace, His mercy and His refining discipline. In Him we see our graduation day, our deliverance from class. Not as gods but adopted children who love their new Father and understand the depths of His ways, rejecting evil for love
I second the motion.. this is God's Unfathomable Wisdom... "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." - Romans 11:32 KJV If everything was right up from the beginning. How do we know the depths of God's Love? what is Grace? what is mercy? What kind of God is this God?
"A lot of psychology of feeling here and not a lot of preaching" This may be true but he is talking to pastors who already have a good grasp of the bible and maybe need that bit of psychology to be able to cope with the stresses of life in ministry. I personal think it was fantastic and greatly needed especially the part about being masters of forgiveness, if that is not the most profound message of Jesus what is? pretty dan good teaching to me!
I took this message and applied it to the disfunctional nature of the department in which I work and make a living. I see every aspect of what he is saying here being played out in my life as well as the lives of others on a daily basis. Unfortunately I work with tradesmen who are not believers and see the whole forgiveness thing as being a sign of weakness and so they remain in revenge mode as the cutting is performed by their bosses. If forgiveness is psychobable, shelf your Bible.
The verse is in part 2 Peter 3:9 (NKJV) "The Lord ..... not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." Repentance means to change once thinking and believe the Gospel.. search in youtube for "Gospel Faith and Works" if you would like to hear an excellent message on how the three all fit together.
by just as much scripture. Furthermore it takes nothing away from Christ's work on the cross. To say that Rob avoids defending his accusers is untrue. He has done so on national TV several times as well as other forums. You can find this here on UA-cam. His opponents do not need to be refuted as he is not saying their positions are wrong. I came to God overcome by His infinite love not out of fear of eternal torment and I try my best to live rightly in return. I am a Universalist.
Totally agree. The biggest evil in the Church is the division of denominationalism where everyone thinks their "brand" holds the totallity of truth leading them to condemn others rather than civilly debate. It is a form of self righteousness. I personally disagree with Rob on gay marriage as I believe it sanctifies immorality but that to me takes nothing away from the larger body of his work in which I have found new truths, inspiration and questions.
Luke 13 v 23 Someone asked Jesus, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?” He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Robb Bell says everyone will get into heaven Robb is preaching heresy.
I think a lot of this "silent screaming" would cease if the average person who belongs to a congregation, actually saw what the Pastor goes through to give them their "hour" every week. About 10 years ago; I got to experience being "in front" for a solid 6 months, after serving as a Pastor's Deacon for 5 years. I lived at that church and felt as if I never went home, and eventually left; when I discovered that all they wanted me for was to tick off that "hour" every week.
There is nothing said here about relying on feelings. Rather the message is to acknowlege that we all have them and a times they can be destructive, This applies to the one who disregards the feelings of others as well as the one being disregarded. Once we acknowlege the power of negative feelings we can overcome them by forgiving, and some need to be mindful of their actions in provoking them. THE central work and message of Christ is the power of forgivness as His defeated sin and death.
"And now I say unto you, refrain from Rob Bell and leave him alone: for if his counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nothing: But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it; in that case, you'd be fighting against God." -paraphrase of Acts 5:38-39
No brother I have not, yet, nowhere in scripture does it state that you must sell everything to be converted in the faith. That text in its context means in following Christ you must be willing to turn from the world and the things that come with it. Faith, which includes repentance, are the only qualifications for salvation, not giving up all that you have, although that is a part of it (works). Until your "friend" has acknowledged the truth in all its context which includes hell he'sheretical
God is the Creator who seeks our adoption now being children of Adam. His grace is his unmerited acceptance of us all. We cannot fathom its depths because we see others as worse than ourselves and undeserving, yet God made all pots for His purpose. His mercy is found in His equitable and corrective discipline that burns our chaff leaving our wheat.
"Do not conform to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind". "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,". " Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus""And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." - I Timothy 2:3-4 KJV Some bible versions have "will have all men" to "desires that all men"... One of the hundred verses that supports Universal Restitution.. Please I don't want to debate... I just want to share.. and I'm so happy with the idea and belief that God loves all, He saves all... :D I have no problem with anyone.. God loves us all!
We have a simple God whom we in our minds have made complex. It is because of our own arrogance that we cannot fathom Him. This why Christ says we must approach Him as children. Sin is a necessary lesson in the perfection of free will. We must learn its workings and ends by direct experience. Sin cannot exist in our Father's house. Death and pain have no place there and so we have here. The world is our classroom and Satan is our instructor of sin.
Brother, not quite sure what you meant by your response but If you are disagreeing with me on the fact that rob bell is a false convert, heretic and a false prophet, I can surely prove you wrong.
I guess you're one of those blessed ones who has never had toxic people in your life who drained you of everything over time. He appreciates people, just not when they drain the good out of life. Even Jesus had to take breaks alone, and even told Peter off saying that Satan was speaking through him. How's that for disappointing psychobabble.
The Master Jesus was falsely accused by the Pharasees. Did He just take it or did He call them "children of Satan, hypocrites, liars, white washed tombs,murderers, decievers"? In short "toxic people". Read into it what you will but the truth is that these small cuts are often held onto even though we try to sluff them off. This is part of the human condition and it is overcome by forgiveness, This is what Rob is teaching and Christ made reality when He forgave His accusers on the cross
I agee. I think if people really thought about why God alowed Satan into the Garden of Eden rather than immediately destroying him but let the deceiver live knowing he would bring death to his creation. If they thought about why God allows the sin of one man to infect us all from birth, they would see a wider view of God's workings with humanity. What is the real mystery of life and salvation? We need to quit focusing totally on now and look back and outside of our own experiance
A lot of psychology of feelings here and not a lot of preaching. Jesus, when energy went out of him, relied on the Father to replenish him. As should Rob Bell and the rest of us. Toxic people are one thing, but unhealed people deserve our attention, not a brush off.
Have you read Love Wins? There really is no definitive declaration of universalism but rather a raising of the question. Questions are encouraged by God "come let us reason together". The early Church was an open forum for discussion on these matters, read Acts. The "narrow gate" referance is similiar to the rich man and the eye of the needle and Christ's teachings are often taken to literal when the message is deeper and spiritual. Universalism is older than eternal torment and is supported
it is not safe to rely on feelings. The Bible says in Proverbs "there is a way that seems right to a man, that leads to destruction". By rejecting the clear teaching of scripture, Rob Bell makes himself a higher authority than God. He is a dangerous , false teacher. The bible warns us about wolves in sheeps clothing,,notice they LOOK like a sheep. But they will not teach the truth. Jesus said "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free". God bless you Angie
Looks like you just went and proved his point. And then went and missed the point he was making completely. Maybe a little less judgement and a little more understanding would help you see he's not talking about brushing people off, he's talking about brushing off the hurt people cause you and forgiving them.
Ofcourse I know what universalism is. You clearly haven't read "Love Wins" otherwise you wouldn't be espousing such nonsense. And I have, brother. I take discipleship seriously. You do realize that libraries have computers for public access. Do us all a favor and lay off the harsh judgements and unintelligible condemnation. It's not pretty. I am done with this conversation, because I can tell you would rather pick out dust particles than work on dislodging your own 2x4. Blessings.
11:30 Bell makes the point about the week-meaning members of the committee of Doctrinal purity,etc, complaining about him. I wonder if Paul, Peter, John, Jesus, would complain about the well-meaning, post-modern committee of political correctness, always co-opting the Disciples and Jesus's original meaning and signing their accounts with their own blood to make sure people took it seriously? Bell seem to be quite the hypocrite here. Where is the content here? It's one long rant. Problem is we don't get to misrepresent the Bible to make it politically correct, and then call ourselves Christians. If he started his own religion, say Bellian Politically Correct Followers of a Fictitious Jesus, no one would complain. It is when you misrepresent the core, not peripheral, aspects of Christianity, and call yourself a Christian (although Mormans and Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves Christians as well), that causes people to object to Bell's false premises.
first off, don't call me brother. second, you didn't prove anything. you just spewed the same talking points by false teachers who are afraid of change. i know the scriptures and i disagree. i challenge you again, prove it. prove it, or shut up.
Don't be received and be a deceiver! 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
All these comments about who is right and who is wrong. Wait until your own that hospital bed with a Stroke or Cancer or a Heart Attach. In the end and there is one you better Hope there is a God, a Heaven. Because all you have in the end is Hope and maybe a litte faith in Jesus.
No matter how ya 'slice' the Gospel, the only way to receive eternal life is to turn and believe in Jesus Christ (Heb. Y'shua HaMachiach) There is nothing in the world we can do to earn it since we're guilty of participating in the sins of a fallen world. God is the Source of all goodness and we need Him. It's not a matter of our good deeds outnumbering our bad deeds even if it sounds right to us since God knows everything about you and I. The Father then made the impossible a glorious reality when He let His Son be sacrificed on a Roman cross and He will accept the one who has faith in that sacrifice and give him or her the eternal life that is in Jesus and open up the mysteries of His Kingdom, along with a changed mind and a changed heart. Simply trust Father. He will never disappoint anyone who humbly calls on Him! Okay, will you do it today?
Um, nope. Correcting an error isn't being toxic. Maybe a bit more understanding and better judgment will make him appreciate people more. He just comes off as whiny here, and I generally "get" and like what he says, so this was disappointing psychobabble.
Kay, no cause he didn't say that. He said there are toxic people. If you haven't encountered that congratulations but you should try to enter church leadership with your superiority and see if you still feel the same way.
Don't know how much this message resonates with most Christians, but as a preacher it was truly freeing. Thank you Rob.
Thanks for posting! This collection of videos has been extremely helpful in my preparation of preaching.
Rob thank you so much, this is a timely message...
something we all need to hear again and again and again... to follow jesus and forgive and repent. sweet message mr bell.
Wow. I feel like those who don't really know the church from behind the scenes just got a real taste of what it's like. And it is freakin messy. But man, that's so freakin awesome. What humility it takes to admit the things he admitted. And that, to me at least, feels like the resurrection.
That was awesome.
As a new Christian sometimes, The Bible can be a little hard for me to understand, Well truth be known Johns big red ball can be too, But anyway all i can say is Rob Bell is inspiring in his preaching. ( LOVE FROM THE UK )
Thank You, Rob Bell!
Even though this was geared toward leaders in the church I still found it incredibly intersting, especially about forgiveness. Thank you for posting!
Rob is a friend and is fully devoted to Christ in full. Thanks for caring :)
God’s love is manifest by His stepping into our classroom and subjecting Himself to all we must endure even to physical death. He did this in the form of The Son both of God and of Adam. In Christ we fathom the pure simplicity of God, His grace, His mercy and His refining discipline. In Him we see our graduation day, our deliverance from class. Not as gods but adopted children who love their new Father and understand the depths of His ways, rejecting evil for love
I second the motion.. this is God's Unfathomable Wisdom...
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." - Romans 11:32 KJV
If everything was right up from the beginning. How do we know the depths of God's Love? what is Grace? what is mercy?
What kind of God is this God?
"A lot of psychology of feeling here and not a lot of preaching" This may be true but he is talking to pastors who already have a good grasp of the bible and maybe need that bit of psychology to be able to cope with the stresses of life in ministry. I personal think it was fantastic and greatly needed especially the part about being masters of forgiveness, if that is not the most profound message of Jesus what is? pretty dan good teaching to me!
I took this message and applied it to the disfunctional nature of the department in which I work and make a living. I see every aspect of what he is saying here being played out in my life as well as the lives of others on a daily basis. Unfortunately I work with tradesmen who are not believers and see the whole forgiveness thing as being a sign of weakness and so they remain in revenge mode as the cutting is performed by their bosses. If forgiveness is psychobable, shelf your Bible.
The verse is in part 2 Peter 3:9 (NKJV)
"The Lord ..... not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." Repentance means to change once thinking and believe the Gospel.. search in youtube for "Gospel Faith and Works" if you would like to hear an excellent message on how the three all fit together.
Idk what he believes as far as heaven or hell, but he has some good nuggets as far as sermon preparation.
by just as much scripture. Furthermore it takes nothing away from Christ's work on the cross. To say that Rob avoids defending his accusers is untrue. He has done so on national TV several times as well as other forums. You can find this here on UA-cam. His opponents do not need to be refuted as he is not saying their positions are wrong. I came to God overcome by His infinite love not out of fear of eternal torment and I try my best to live rightly in return. I am a Universalist.
Totally agree. The biggest evil in the Church is the division of denominationalism where everyone thinks their "brand" holds the totallity of truth leading them to condemn others rather than civilly debate. It is a form of self righteousness. I personally disagree with Rob on gay marriage as I believe it sanctifies immorality but that to me takes nothing away from the larger body of his work in which I have found new truths, inspiration and questions.
Luke 13 v 23 Someone asked Jesus, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?” He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.
Robb Bell says everyone will get into heaven
Robb is preaching heresy.
I think a lot of this "silent screaming" would cease if the average person who belongs to a congregation, actually saw what the Pastor goes through to give them their "hour" every week. About 10 years ago; I got to experience being "in front" for a solid 6 months, after serving as a Pastor's Deacon for 5 years. I lived at that church and felt as if I never went home, and eventually left; when I discovered that all they wanted me for was to tick off that "hour" every week.
"It's the million LITTLE comments..." yes YES indeed
There is nothing said here about relying on feelings. Rather the message is to acknowlege that we all have them and a times they can be destructive, This applies to the one who disregards the feelings of others as well as the one being disregarded. Once we acknowlege the power of negative feelings we can overcome them by forgiving, and some need to be mindful of their actions in provoking them. THE central work and message of Christ is the power of forgivness as His defeated sin and death.
What is a Chocolate Covered Turd guys?
The term refers to something that promises to be good but turns out to be bad.
wow....
stealing or recycling?
"And now I say unto you, refrain from Rob Bell and leave him alone: for if his counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nothing: But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it; in that case, you'd be fighting against God." -paraphrase of Acts 5:38-39
Have you sold everything you owned as Jesus commanded ALL His followers to?
Where in scripture does Jesus command this?
No brother I have not, yet, nowhere in scripture does it state that you must sell everything to be converted in the faith. That text in its context means in following Christ you must be willing to turn from the world and the things that come with it. Faith, which includes repentance, are the only qualifications for salvation, not giving up all that you have, although that is a part of it (works). Until your "friend" has acknowledged the truth in all its context which includes hell he'sheretical
God is the Creator who seeks our adoption now being children of Adam. His grace is his unmerited acceptance of us all. We cannot fathom its depths because we see others as worse than ourselves and undeserving, yet God made all pots for His purpose. His mercy is found in His equitable and corrective discipline that burns our chaff leaving our wheat.
"Do not conform to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind". "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,". " Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus""And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
Unless you have Rob's permission, not sure you should post this stuff. that could be considered stealing :-)
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." - I Timothy 2:3-4 KJV
Some bible versions have "will have all men" to "desires that all men"...
One of the hundred verses that supports Universal Restitution..
Please I don't want to debate... I just want to share.. and I'm so happy with the idea and belief that God loves all, He saves all... :D I have no problem with anyone.. God loves us all!
We have a simple God whom we in our minds have made complex. It is because of our own arrogance that we cannot fathom Him. This why Christ says we must approach Him as children. Sin is a necessary lesson in the perfection of free will. We must learn its workings and ends by direct experience. Sin cannot exist in our Father's house. Death and pain have no place there and so we have here. The world is our classroom and Satan is our instructor of sin.
Doesn't Jesus say God wants ALL to be saved? I don't think that's beyond God's ability, or His love, to do.
then prove it. or maybe you could spend the time and actually listen to what he has to say.
Brother, not quite sure what you meant by your response but If you are disagreeing with me on the fact that rob bell is a false convert, heretic and a false prophet, I can surely prove you wrong.
I guess you're one of those blessed ones who has never had toxic people in your life who drained you of everything over time. He appreciates people, just not when they drain the good out of life. Even Jesus had to take breaks alone, and even told Peter off saying that Satan was speaking through him. How's that for disappointing psychobabble.
The Master Jesus was falsely accused by the Pharasees. Did He just take it or did He call them "children of Satan, hypocrites, liars, white washed tombs,murderers, decievers"? In short "toxic people". Read into it what you will but the truth is that these small cuts are often held onto even though we try to sluff them off. This is part of the human condition and it is overcome by forgiveness, This is what Rob is teaching and Christ made reality when He forgave His accusers on the cross
I agee. I think if people really thought about why God alowed Satan into the Garden of Eden rather than immediately destroying him but let the deceiver live knowing he would bring death to his creation. If they thought about why God allows the sin of one man to infect us all from birth, they would see a wider view of God's workings with humanity. What is the real mystery of life and salvation? We need to quit focusing totally on now and look back and outside of our own experiance
A lot of psychology of feelings here and not a lot of preaching. Jesus, when energy went out of him, relied on the Father to replenish him. As should Rob Bell and the rest of us. Toxic people are one thing, but unhealed people deserve our attention, not a brush off.
Have you read Love Wins? There really is no definitive declaration of universalism but rather a raising of the question. Questions are encouraged by God "come let us reason together". The early Church was an open forum for discussion on these matters, read Acts. The "narrow gate" referance is similiar to the rich man and the eye of the needle and Christ's teachings are often taken to literal when the message is deeper and spiritual. Universalism is older than eternal torment and is supported
No, it just seems like an awful lot of psychology.
it is not safe to rely on feelings. The Bible says in Proverbs "there is a way that seems right to a man, that leads to destruction". By rejecting the clear teaching of scripture, Rob Bell makes himself a higher authority than God. He is a dangerous , false teacher. The bible warns us about wolves in sheeps clothing,,notice they LOOK like a sheep. But they will not teach the truth. Jesus said "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free". God bless you Angie
Looks like you just went and proved his point. And then went and missed the point he was making completely. Maybe a little less judgement and a little more understanding would help you see he's not talking about brushing people off, he's talking about brushing off the hurt people cause you and forgiving them.
Ofcourse I know what universalism is. You clearly haven't read "Love Wins" otherwise you wouldn't be espousing such nonsense. And I have, brother. I take discipleship seriously. You do realize that libraries have computers for public access. Do us all a favor and lay off the harsh judgements and unintelligible condemnation. It's not pretty. I am done with this conversation, because I can tell you would rather pick out dust particles than work on dislodging your own 2x4. Blessings.
Like a Berean?
scottevans.ie/one-for-the-nerds-a-dynamic-orthodoxy/
11:30 Bell makes the point about the week-meaning members of the committee of Doctrinal purity,etc, complaining about him. I wonder if Paul, Peter, John, Jesus, would complain about the well-meaning, post-modern committee of political correctness, always co-opting the Disciples and Jesus's original meaning and signing their accounts with their own blood to make sure people took it seriously? Bell seem to be quite the hypocrite here.
Where is the content here? It's one long rant. Problem is we don't get to misrepresent the Bible to make it politically correct, and then call ourselves Christians.
If he started his own religion, say Bellian Politically Correct Followers of a Fictitious Jesus, no one would complain. It is when you misrepresent the core, not peripheral, aspects of Christianity, and call yourself a Christian (although Mormans and Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves Christians as well), that causes people to object to Bell's false premises.
first off, don't call me brother. second, you didn't prove anything. you just spewed the same talking points by false teachers who are afraid of change. i know the scriptures and i disagree.
i challenge you again, prove it. prove it, or shut up.
Don't be received and be a deceiver!
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
All these comments about who is right and who is wrong. Wait until your own that hospital bed with a Stroke or Cancer or a Heart Attach. In the end and there is one you better Hope there is a God, a Heaven. Because all you have in the end is Hope and maybe a litte faith in Jesus.
No matter how ya 'slice' the Gospel, the only way to receive eternal life is to turn and believe in Jesus Christ (Heb. Y'shua HaMachiach) There is nothing in the world we can do to earn it since we're guilty of participating in the sins of a fallen world. God is the Source of all goodness and we need Him. It's not a matter of our good deeds outnumbering our bad deeds even if it sounds right to us since God knows everything about you and I. The Father then made the impossible a glorious reality when He let His Son be sacrificed on a Roman cross and He will accept the one who has faith in that sacrifice and give him or her the eternal life that is in Jesus and open up the mysteries of His Kingdom, along with a changed mind and a changed heart. Simply trust Father. He will never disappoint anyone who humbly calls on Him! Okay, will you do it today?
This man is heretical at best..shameful
Um, nope. Correcting an error isn't being toxic. Maybe a bit more understanding and better judgment will make him appreciate people more. He just comes off as whiny here, and I generally "get" and like what he says, so this was disappointing psychobabble.
Kay, no cause he didn't say that. He said there are toxic people. If you haven't encountered that congratulations but you should try to enter church leadership with your superiority and see if you still feel the same way.