Why West Coast Loggers Love Cutting High Stumps
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- West Coast loggers cut tree stumps higher than in some parts of the world. West Coast timber fallers have their reasons for cutting stumps high instead of close to the ground. We are working in an environment that is different than much of the world. Our trees are different and we produce a different product than some parts of the world where they do things differently. We use long bars on our chainsaws, with full wrap handles. We use Humboldt undercuts instead of traditional face cut notches. We will go over some of the things we do differently in West Coast logging. 
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The bark near the ground also traps a lot more dirt which dulls the saw teeth much faster.
Back in the hand sawing days they would go to the trouble of using an axe to cut off a ring of bark from around the cut because even slight dulling made such a difference in the speed and effort of sawing.
Thanks for the knowledge!
Old logger taught me. Leave the stumps high. You always have a good seat!
There are OLD loggers and BOLD loggers, but there are no OLD, BOLD loggers...
Yeah, that makes sense. Softwoods, steep ground, Humboldt felling cuts. Here in the UK we're a small island with not a lot of trees, mostly hardwood and the woods are small. Never seen anyone using Humboldt cuts and never seen it taught in over 40 years. So we cut off buttresses (toes), cut low (allowing coppice regrowth) and trim up stem ends before cross-cutting a felled butt to spec. Pistol butts? Makes sense, we're not allowed guns.... . We call 'em J-ed (jayed). Mostly found in derelict coppice or on old boundary banks and other earthworks.
Thanks. Another enjoyable post from the Lands of Wilson.
Well, there are some of us that cut Humboldt in the UK...
@@tomstephens3029 Diversity is good. But I've never see a Humboldt in 40 years of running saws...... Smooth felling to you.
In Austria we do the top cuts with a step in the hinge, to let the fibres bend longer without breaking. That guides them longer to the ground. Our mills accept the notch, but you start to measure from half of the notch and need to add 4 inch per 13 feet log.
Fascinating topic.
This video does not Stump me, it’s very clear, thanks.
Also, the belled end takes more room on the truck, making each load less productive. And it's harder to stack in piles at the saw yard with big ends on the logs.
As an East Coast faller, I cut like the West Coast guys. No matter how much grief my co workers give me. I couldnt tell you how many times I was told to cut the EC way, all to find out the butt was hollow and I end up cutting the butt off after the tree fell anyway. Boring into every tree, hunched over low to the ground is such a waste of energy and time. I can slap a nice undercut in, back cut, send her off and have it damn near limbed out by the time I would have the whole thing bored out
I ran self loader in western Washington for 20 years, I wish the guys I hauled for would have watched this.. good job of explaining
I’m an east coaster who prefers higher stumps. Gets you out of the buttress and not so bent over cutting. Unless you’re logging veneer-1-2’ doesn’t matter much
See when I was doing security for a timber farm these are all points they mentioned for taller stumps. Was also told the taller stumps were better for when they wanted go back in and cleared the area for replant because a dozer can get a better bite on the taller stump.
I've never seen a place on the west coast that clears stumps before replanting.
On one of my fire assignments,I think it was in Washington, we were doing some widow maker mitigation in the wilderness and we come across a chair that a faller had cut from a high stump. It had arms and a back. It was pretty nice.
I trust you did the right thing, sat on it declares yourself king of the woods.
Excellent topic Michael! You are absolutely correct, yield is different depending on your location. Here in Vermont, we cut a low stump, but it depends on the tree, root swells, etc. like you demonstrated.
Stay hard, Vermont.
I cut flush to the ground in my forest, but I have hardwood trees which coppice really well and on heavy thinning operations they regenerate beautifully when given a close-to-ground stump to grow from. The other advantage of the lower cut stumps, particularly in areas still undergoing thinning operations is that I can operate lighter equipment without worrying about ground clearance.
Just a few words from a retired West Coast logger. Pro and cons regarding stump height/salvageable timber ..so on the actual west coast where the mountains meet the salt water every tree requires a unique approach. So the flare near the ground can be and on thick barked trees like fir, cut off as done with many of the larger diameter trees where the fallers bar is not long enough for a full trip across the butt ... so shaving several inches of thick bark essentially removes your pistol grip/flare. Another reason for leaving high stumps is that on steep terrain (heli logging sites) .. harvest worthy old growth, taller stumps are useful for holding the felled trees from rolling downhill like a torpedo. Fallers lay their trees across the slopes to prevent runaways. Other considerations when falling on steep terrain is that on the uphill side of the tree all is simple, but the low side of the trees perch can be 10 or 20 lower, making a high stump very difficult to achieve as there are few 16 foot tall loggers able to reach over their head to run the saw from the low side. ..meaning very low stumps relative to the uphill side terrain.
I remember an episode of ax men, where they used a mechanical harvester to cut the trees at ground level, and then they had to cut a couple feet off every log, and then figure out what to do with the cut-offs.
the other one not mentioned is it's a lot easier to make your cuts even just a couple feet off the ground than right at ground level.
This whole video stumps me.Hey keep em coming
Thank you. High stumps are also good for a quick touch up to the chain.
Makes sense for a west coaster. 😁 I cut low stumps but I cut the tree high. Mark where I want the stump to end up and then cut a firewood length up and make my felling cut...why you might ask...if I was to fell it down low and something went wrong by the time my knees got me up and moving I might be out of time to avoid a bad situation...and I'm cutting for myself, not the mills.
Just so. Measure seven times...
Here in Washington, it's typical for the old school original cut stumps to be 5, 6, 8 feet tall. Plenty of butt swell in what was left behind. And the old school notches for spring boards are still visible in many cases. Back in the day, they wouldn't waste anything, so the fact they were cut that way speaks volumes to me.
As a old firewood cutter, I would come across a 4 or 5 foot section of the butt of tree lying on the ground and would wonder why did they leave this piece but now I know thank you for the learning information.
@@johndowe7003 yep sure do. I always took them. Easy picking.
@@johndowe7003 usually I would because of the size and like you say clumsy to handle.
Great commentary, educational and humorous....thanks!
Your arguments at the end are the best! Only because we consider it nice doesn’t mean nice for nature. Keep as much wood in the woods as possible and take only what you need. Very good video!
Good stuff Mr. Wilson!
I end up cutting high stumps in the winter because of the deep snow in the winter here in the UP of Michigan. That's how I can go back and tell how deep the snow was that winter 😀
Where I live it is a little bit more open (more meadows). New native tree sprouts: madrone, doug fir, various oaks tend to sprout up next to stumps.
the property I grew up on had a few of those red 12 foot tall old timer stumps.
While thinning my property I fall trees with a high stump and then immediately fall that high stump with a low cut. Yes I do it cause I want it to look pretty, but also because it’s easier to weave my tractor in between the trees when I can drive over the stump rather than have to go around it.
As a skidder operator I love low stumps when I can get them.
Nice to think we have plenty of trees, hope it will still stay that way 😊
Many more trees than 100 years ago.
This left me stumped.
Makes sense to me, and for us firewood guys, we have pre-seasoned wood to add to our collection. 😉👍
We wrote a THP in Mendocino years ago where we logged the enormous OG high stumps that were still sound. We got ridiculous delivered rates on that wood (twice camp run). Some were over 10' tall.
i've got several old growth stumps with notches for spring boards on my property and much of the surrounding area was logged in the 1860's-1890's. Snohomish Washington
When i was still working I preferred a higher stump than you leave - because it is far easier to remove a stump by just pushing it over with a machine, no need for a big excavator or stump grinding to remove them. I was removing the tree from my construction site, i couldn't have cared less about the timber itself, it generally either got mulched or was burned. I liked to leave a metre or so of stump, a medium size machine, typical of what is used to cut a roadway or a house block , can easily push it over and remove it completely.
I rarely need to remove stumps but when I have, I have always left them higher for that. Or in some cases remove them with the tree still on them for even more leverage.
A property I lived on in coastal Mendocino County was dotted with a dozen or so massive old growth stumps. Most of them were at least 10-15 feet tall! They were fun to have around, though probably less fun than if they hadn’t been cut to begin with.
You won't find a better conservationist than a farmer, forester, hunter nor whaler.
All depends on what the logs are used for. Back east, veneer logs are big money and they will cut them pretty much at ground level. Same for firewood. Other times a high stump is desirable for land clearing, better for an excavator to pop it out or a dozer to get a bite.
This video had some very good content. On the lighter side of things, it is a lot easier to sit on a higher stump than one that has been cut closer the ground.
this guy makes the vid look so rustic natural unsophisticated old guy stuff. but this is clever audio and video. the vid is as clever as his tree felling i think.
I clicked like when this video has 460 likes. But now it's 461 but I really wanted 462....
I cut the high stumps for fire starter...its extra pitchy...fat wood.
Where I grew up I used to cut old yellow pine stumps from the old axe and misery whip days. Being that they were fell with axe/misery whip, the stumps are naturally pretty high. To this day these pitch stumps survive (semi-arid climate near the high desert) and they're excellent kindling for starting fires. You can even frequently still find pitchy knots that were cut off and still have axe marks on them. I've cut near ground level into some stumps that were so pitchy that they almost looked like a freshly cut green tree still, just absolutely loaded with pitch.
When I can find a good pitchy one I use those for firestarter too.
That is some serious doghair fir there!
I like things neat and clean. And I also do not like tripping hazards. In landscaping stumps are a eyesore. But your point of view has made a eye opening difference in train of thought 🤔
In landscaping that would be a different story, I would be more likely to cut the stumps off low to make things look nice. But out in the woods it’s a different story.
Eugene OR area. 400 acres of industrial timberland recently logged. Fairly small crews use very large excavator equipment fitted with special devices that hold the tree, saw it off at ground level with a thick rotating steel saw blade. The machine strips off the limbs and places the logs for loading. A worker with a chainsaw cuts off the flairs, etc. The equipment they use is immense, much larger that it might look on TV. >> There are no stumps.
East coast cutters just trim the butts
And most conventional notches are cutout out in the trim wood at the mill anyway. You don’t really lose much lumber at all. 1/4 depth is common here
Not sure about you west coast guys but in my area a flared butt always produces more wood.if you know what i mean
Here in missouri we Humboldt everything low but walnuts we dig them inn the ground then bore cut them . Most walnuts you won't even see stump after dirt falls back down
... Exepted on snowboard chillout places 😅... Also heard huge old growth stumps can get you "snowdowned" when riding heavy POW. ( snow is light and empty around them cause pf the melting in between snowfalls ).
Yeah I don’t like stumps on a snowboard.
Nature abhors a golf course.
Some places, when a private landowner calls in for harvesting, the fallers drop and skid out, pile slash etc, then and assessor comes through and measures off the stumps for payment to landowner...if there are stumps cut into the flare, there's is a steep deduction in value for all the reasons mentioned here, since the estimate is based on the stump diameter post harvest.
At 5:47 Springboard not Buckboard.
I assumed that it is scale. Always scale the short/top of trees diameter. Scrubber I believe. Plus the swell on stump makes it suck to load
It's a lot harder to cut a notch in the root flare than a foot higher in the straight part and takes up to 2 to 3 times longer.
No, as a retired BC faller there is no simple answer, sometimes they are extra high to stop a roller, we had to buck, other times it was so we dont want hang ups, falling for Helilogging we had our weight cards, its not just one simple answer. Chips are premium too, that all considered in.
What's about hinge wood? You cut it off while it's felling?
If you come out east and cut high dollar red oak,white oak, hard maple and cherry and leave a stump over 1 foot high you will be unemployed by lunch.
should be before first coffee break
The stump at 5:37 looks like a perfectly normal stump by Swedish standards.
Also, Mills REQUIRE 40ft logs and anything under this you will get 50% value on your log. Mills buy logs by size of SMALL end so a slightly larger Big end does not help you at all. Any warp in the log will be an automatic ~15% reduction or so. Cut that bell end OFF!~!! The wood is all twisty near the ground = BAD lumber! Though in age of powered nailers not a big deal. In old times try driving a nail by hand into that twisty stuff! Not going to happen! Or your boards will warp with all that twisty grain when they dry = garbage lumber and you cannot sell it or you get a MUCH lower price for it.
This makes me wonder how much does the tear-out during felling affect the value of the wood? I.e. If you fall the tree with a low cut, then trim the butt off the log, it will naturally remove the more of the tear-out?
I go back and cut the stumps t0 the ground. So no trip no hold up. Only high fells for us stay around
Another reason for high stumps would be to save your back by not bending over as much.
Over 25 years falling production in PA.
I was taught by a West Coast logger & cut mine high to.
An Amish friends son wants to know what brand of corks you prefer & if you use steel or composite toes?
I don’t use corks, just Vibram lug sole.
@@WilsonForestLands thanks.
Where I come from most of the Pinus radiata is pruned to 6 meters and the forest company likes to sell lots of 6 meter clear saw logs and 5.4 meter plywood peelers. The sweep specifications are looser foe saw logs than peelers and peelers must be rounder and the pith very close to the center of the log I have cuts lots of 600mm lengths off butts to upgrade
Cut to meet markets and maximize value on the skid site adds returns for the forest owner .
Please give me the number of the hedge attachment for the FS-131 cutter.
Stihl HL 145
Ñoticed from u previous video u changed u bar oil , is it the high Stihl prices u changed to Husqvarna or is there a more performance issue behind it ? Maybe I can discover something else that is going to be better for my saws as well ,please let me know why u changed to a different brand! I thank you in advance Gunter 😊
even feller buncher tree length operation machine cut low , then when cutting trees too length at the truck landing, they cut off the but swell bell and toss it ,before cutting logs and pulp wood , the bell helps the grapple skidder hold the bunch of tree lengths together in the grapple while hauling too the landing where the tree lengths get processed , the bell is cut and tossed for the same reason it just looks like they using it , but look in the pile of tops and you find them there , by hand or machine, it still the same waste , like branches , grinding operations can have issues with the butt swell , not feeding ,so a real undesirable part of the tree ,as for nature , their habitat and moisture stores , seen many a tree grow out of a big old stump , some of the best mushrooms beds are found around or attached too old stumps ,, might suck to walk through a stumpy forest , yet its the most bio diverse forest
I’m betting the Claro walnut crowd doesn’t high stump. Take care.
Sad world when you have to explain the obvious.
Naaww, Wilson is just trying to get out ahead of the Idjits.
(A pre-emptive strike, as it were.)
I never use wood for homes, or buildings, use steel, its whats for dinner.
Hello. Curve ball. The timber buyer I had this past winter wanted the butt logs. Hard Maple. Guess it was going to China. Not really sure why.
I like the butt logs too but not the few inches next to the ground.
I thought those "swells" or "flares" were called 'buttresses'.
What about stumps wrecking tyres: make a path and use a winch.
I only drive on the roads to avoid soil compaction. In a lot of parts of the west it’s too steep to drive anywhere other than on the road. But in a case where someone is running a skidder off road obviously you want lower stumps where the skidder would be.
Again the experts are wrong. They must all work for the government. 🤣
you never heard of stumpage free or rate or due to be paid up after harvesting trees
Those are tall?
According to a lot of commenters they are tall.
Hope there wasn't any pitch on that stump when you sat down,, but I guess you would have included that in the video considering your sense of humor. 😉
Yeah I learned a long time ago to look for pitch before sitting on a stump. 😁
Cutting stumps high maybe okay for small gypo outfits like yours who only cut a couple dozen boards per day. Log loads are computed by weight not by board ruler the buyer pays for the whole log who turns the tree into lumber, woodchips,strandboard, wood pellets, hogfuel to name a few products. On crown land the forest service has regs to stump height and how the block is to be logged. Operations that burn their waste pollute the air making it hard on asthmatic suffers. Some of the best clear boards come from the butt log.
It sounds like you may be talking about how things are in a different area. I am talking about how things are here. Saw log loads are computed by Scribner scale here, not weight. If you look at the big industrialized clear cuts here, Humboldt undercuts and higher stumps as I described.
@@WilsonForestLands Okay did not know you scaled with a stick. Big red cedar here have some bell in the butt here but there is a market for 4 ft clear from the butt. The log is feed thru the mill butt first to keep the sawyer happy regards
That wood would the curvy grain. There might be a slight off-season business opportunity there. It could be prized Nice makers and people who make stocks for rifles. Might be worth putting some feelers out on
Hardwoods for rifle stocks -- Walnut, Maple, etc.
Softwoods, such as Doug-fir, Cedar, Hemlock, not so much. (Not that one couldn't use cedar, etc., it just typically is not.)
Wavy-grained material for decorative boxes, picture frames, veneer-over-plywood, you bet!
Doesnt take 10min to answer the question.
West coast? People do it differently 😅😂
As a west coast timber seller, I always requested that my stumps be shorter than the diameter of the tree.
The Truth is the "waste" western stump most certainly has realizable value with a more efficient system. What you talk about here describe the "realities" and a failing of the large "mill" system which feeds a complex construction/finance system where value is extracted at every point yielding the high cost of housing system we see. It is early days in the evolution of the small band mill "system", limited now by "feeding" into the "system", open in the future, with evolved vertical integration, to be a part of an affordable housing solution. THE WESTERN FOREST LOOKS LIKE JUNK AFTER CERTAIN OF THE WESTERN LOGGERS WORK IN THE FOREST.
Redundant.
Fucking stop cutting down the forest!!
You waste to much wood
Thanks for some common sense.