I desperately need help with a system I am wiring...I have a 21ip that is an upgrade from an old old vista se panel. The customer has an older 4219 with just the 5 dip switches for addressing. I would prefer to use the 4219 but will it cause a conflict with the potential zones from zone doubling? Also, I have 4 wire smokes (red, black, green, yellow)...obviously red/black go to power...but how do I set that to the panel properly? That's the only thing I'm hung up on...and I cannot find any videos or documentation on the older 4219 expansion boards with 5 dip switches or even the new ones with 8. Love your videos by the way...don't listen to the haters in regards to how the panel looks.
+Michael D The 6150 and 6160 are keypad model numbers so those must be wired back to a Honeywell alarm control panel which would be located in a beige metal alarm cabinet. In that cabinet, you should be able to determine what the model number of the system is. The LYNX Plus is an all-in-one wireless system meaning it's a control panel and keypad in one unit and you would not be able to wire or integrate that type of system into a wired VISTA panel.
EOL resistor clarification. Many here point out the resistor should be at the end of line (EOL). Sure, if a potential burglar is more likely to access the cabling than the sensors (example, commercial buildings where alarm cable runs throughout attic/crawl spaces, and contractors, etc have access to). In a home it's far less likely strangers will crawl through your attic to short your alarm cable. It will probably be easier to do this at the sensor (window contacts, etc) while you use the restroom. Ideally, the EOL resistor should be right before the sensor, which is not always possible (simple window contacts, etc). If an exposed sensor is large enough, you might be able to put it inside.
Hello, your videos are great. I just went this morning following your steps to swap out the vista 10se system and keypad that was in the house I just purchased. I followed your steps but the system have a 4 wire smoke detector that did not have a resistor and i connected to zone 1 and yellow and green and red to aux pwr and blck to grnd. the rest i followed your instructions changed the resistors to 3k. When i power up the 6160 and set *16 i get longrng 103 rf error, fire 01, and fault zone 2 - 8 I only have connected up to zone 7. any suggestions and also how to connect the 4 wire smoke. i got my router connected and the gsm card as well but no gsm service yet. just trying to get it setup and working again first
Zone 1 is only for 2-wire smoke detectors. You need to connect 4-wire smokes to one of the other zones and you need to use a relay or the on-board triggers to setup the power reset for the smokes when you disarm the system. You should look at the installation guide for proper setup of the smoke detector. Also, unless you are zone doubling, you should use 2k resistors not 3k.
Honeywell said in a circle the EOL of line is at the end. the panel is the start of one leg of the wire which goes out to the device the other side of the wire being 22/2 or 22/4 the last wire circles back to the panel. End of Line Begin the panel zone then out to device and back to panel.
+Michael D Can you please email support@alarmgrid.com with further questions as we like to keep the discussion on this page relevant to the content in the video?
i have a questions what if the phones jack on the panel terminal won't work is there a way you could show us how to wire up phone module in 20p panel please
Yes, It would be best in case someone tries to cut the line. But they will work at the panel as well. The resistors also tell the panel which zone is faulting
So, if someone cut the phone lines in the panel, that would render the whole system useless? Right? I mean, don't they have safeguards in place for that? Seems like a huge problem if not...
Amer ica no not true. Any good alarm company will sell a GSM radio backup with the system and this eliminates the need for phone lines. Phone lines are going away in the next few year anyways.
o ideal, não é colocar o resistor no sensor, pois se o fizerem uma sabotagem, no sensor, fechando a zona, juntando os fios de alarme, não ira mostrar que a zona foi mexida.
I have 2 key pads already hooked up, can I add an additional 1? the 2 I already have is a 6150 and a 6160 but I also want to add an Honeywell Lynx. I think it's called. is that possible?
Yes, you can disable a wired zone by connecting a 2k resistor ACROSS the two zone terminal screws. Another option is to delete zones 1-8 in the *56 zone programming menus if you won't use any of the on-board wired zones.
More on EOL resistors: It is often good to not use EOL resistors to avoid vendor lock-in: when I purchased my home many years ago I was relieved to discover the EOL resistors were at the panel (SOL). The system was a GE, which I had no intention of using and used a different resistor value than the alarm panel I was going to replace it with. I think it's good practice to discuss future upgradability with your customers so they don't have to bust out their walls when switching to a different alarm panel/resistor combo. In any event, it you're going to install resistors at EOL, leave extra cable that can be pulled out so the resistors can be swapped if necessary.
Clint VanRoekel Yes, if there is only a sensor in a zone. No, if there are multiple sensors in a zone. Practically No, if it's a single family home. Technically Yes, if it's a commercial place where a burglar can access the sensors during daytime.
I know this is an old comment, but... Technically, it depends. If you are strictly using contacts that are closed when the zone is secure, making a complete circuit, it won't matter where the resistor is, because, since the resistor is in series, it won't matter where the wire is cut. If cut, the circuit will never be complete and therefore faulted permanently, just as if a door was open. For resistors in parallel to switches that must be open to secure the zone, yes, it would have to be after any closed switches for the wire supervision to work properly. Otherwise, if the EOL is in parallel in the panel, the panel would see the resistor all the time, either in the correct state where the wire is intact and the switch is open, or the wire is cut, which is also an open circuit, just like the open switch. The panel wouldn't know the difference. Hence why I like normally closed loops. Resistor can go in the case, and is still immune to being defeated by wire cutting, and can easily be removed if you ever switch panel brands.
EOLR -End of Line Resistor not 'At Panel Resistor' (APR)! I believe that the presenter could have been a bit more illustrative by presenting in the video at least the Zone numbers and their location.
yeah lets say from fbi panel to 20p panel without using zone expander my question is how many zones can put in each zones in the panel..how many zones can hold in each zones of the terminal in 20p panel without using zone expander. how to wire series (this is home run wire)
MILLANDO TOLLGIS I think you are confusing sensors and zones. A zone can be a single sensor or it can be a group of sensors wired in series. When wiring sensors in series, so that multiple sensors are grouped into a single zone, you would not know which individual sensor was activated when that zone goes into alarm. You can connect as many sensors in series to one zone as you'd like.
Hi Benny, it's true that EOL means end-of-line, and where possible we always recommend proper resistor placement, however, depending on the situation, putting resistors at the end of line may not be possible. For example, you may be replacing an older panel with a newer one. The older panel may have already been installed with the resistors at the panel. If not for the fact that this video is specifically meant to show you how to wire for zone doubling, I'd say just make the zone normally closed and don't include resistors at all. But with zone doubling, you must use resistors, so even if they are at the panel, they are required.
@@AlarmGrid Couldn't disagree more, do it right. Even at an old panel I go to the end of the line were the peripheral is and you put the resistor in the peripheral. This is just either ignorance or pure laziness either one is a bad excuse for an alarm professional. You effectively rendered each zone useless and not monitored if a short was on the line the panel would never know.
@@brianalex1017 You're free to disagree, that's what makes this country great! However, it isn't always possible to retrofit resistors at the end-of-line where they belong. Zone doubling actually solves this problem. Any short on a doubled zone will cause a trouble condition on both doubled zones until the short is cleared. Regardless of resistor placement.
@@AlarmGrid Your output is indicative that you clearly need more input on this situation a short would not identify a problem in a zone doubling situation if it's not eol.
+KW1S We agree that zone doubling is much more complex but it does save some money for a customer that doesn't want to pay for a 4219 zone expansion module so we wanted to show how it works.
+Sterling Donnelly yes I know. My 35 year experience when I have to service old contacts that have high resistance the zone that goes off is not the zone that is actually the problem. I don't give the customer a choice. It's a 4219 or just 8 zones. Not to take away anything from the video, it's good instructional video.
Zone doubling rocks. It's not so much about saving money. It makes for a cleaner install, especially for installs with greater than 16 zones. I have over 30 zones. I solder my resistors to the wire, use heat shrink, then connect resistor right to the panel when EOL is not desired. I don't think it's as complex as people hear make it out to be. Don't hesitate to zone double, works great.
Here's the LV Hack again. Dude, you was privi to a gravy train with biscuit wheels for an upgrade. It was a bird's nest before and you're turning the homeruns back into one. You have an open wall cavity behind the enclosure that you could neatly dress the runs to the zones then push the slack back into the cavity to be utilized yet for another day/upgrade. Also, it looks like you're using 3M silicon butt connectors...you know 3M makes a direct depth tool specifically for their connectors or maybe they didn't think installers would just use their "Ideal T-strippers" or lineman pliers? I see you're still spreading the cancerous idea of terminating the EOL's back at the control panel....geez!
james stephenson Not necessarily true, depends on how the zone parameters are configured zone(+)---\/\/\/--------------[device]----------------( - )zone, although the EOL/\/\/- is mounted @ the control, removal of the initiating device would cause an alarm or a zone fault condition
+GypsyMoFoJoe if the system is armed on a non 24-hour monitored zone There is a reason it is called an END OF LINE. People circumvent this all the time. Not recommended by any manufacturer.
For the record, I hate jelly crimps. They scream unqualified worker to me, and always makes craftsmanship look shitty. Give me StaKon buttsplices or give me death.
Totally unprofessional.just buy a dam zone expander. You should always use the keep it simple stupid method. Trying to make yourself appear smart by doing such things are a disservice to people.Put in the zone expander and make the system easier to troubleshoot should it need service.
I desperately need help with a system I am wiring...I have a 21ip that is an upgrade from an old old vista se panel. The customer has an older 4219 with just the 5 dip switches for addressing. I would prefer to use the 4219 but will it cause a conflict with the potential zones from zone doubling? Also, I have 4 wire smokes (red, black, green, yellow)...obviously red/black go to power...but how do I set that to the panel properly? That's the only thing I'm hung up on...and I cannot find any videos or documentation on the older 4219 expansion boards with 5 dip switches or even the new ones with 8. Love your videos by the way...don't listen to the haters in regards to how the panel looks.
all systems are the Honeywells. 6150/6150 and then the 3rd is the Honeywell Lynx Plus device. not sure if I answered your question.
+Michael D The 6150 and 6160 are keypad model numbers so those must be wired back to a Honeywell alarm control panel which would be located in a beige metal alarm cabinet. In that cabinet, you should be able to determine what the model number of the system is. The LYNX Plus is an all-in-one wireless system meaning it's a control panel and keypad in one unit and you would not be able to wire or integrate that type of system into a wired VISTA panel.
Ok. Yea, definitely not the touch (all in one) system. Its an L3000 I believe.
EOL resistor clarification. Many here point out the resistor should be at the end of line (EOL). Sure, if a potential burglar is more likely to access the cabling than the sensors (example, commercial buildings where alarm cable runs throughout attic/crawl spaces, and contractors, etc have access to). In a home it's far less likely strangers will crawl through your attic to short your alarm cable. It will probably be easier to do this at the sensor (window contacts, etc) while you use the restroom. Ideally, the EOL resistor should be right before the sensor, which is not always possible (simple window contacts, etc). If an exposed sensor is large enough, you might be able to put it inside.
Hello,
your videos are great.
I just went this morning following your steps to swap out the vista 10se system and keypad that was in the house I just purchased. I followed your steps but the system have a 4 wire smoke detector that did not have a resistor and i connected to zone 1 and yellow and green and red to aux pwr and blck to grnd. the rest i followed your instructions changed the resistors to 3k. When i power up the 6160 and set *16 i get longrng 103 rf error, fire 01, and fault zone 2 - 8 I only have connected up to zone 7. any suggestions and also how to connect the 4 wire smoke. i got my router connected and the gsm card as well but no gsm service yet. just trying to get it setup and working again first
Zone 1 is only for 2-wire smoke detectors. You need to connect 4-wire smokes to one of the other zones and you need to use a relay or the on-board triggers to setup the power reset for the smokes when you disarm the system. You should look at the installation guide for proper setup of the smoke detector.
Also, unless you are zone doubling, you should use 2k resistors not 3k.
Honeywell said in a circle the EOL of line is at the end. the panel is the start of one leg of the wire which goes out to the device the other side of the wire being 22/2 or 22/4 the last wire circles back to the panel. End of Line Begin the panel zone then out to device and back to panel.
Got you. thanks. also, what about installing an additional wireless glass break as secondary in another location and we'll as wireless contacts?
+Michael D Can you please email support@alarmgrid.com with further questions as we like to keep the discussion on this page relevant to the content in the video?
+Sterling Donnelly sorry about that. I will email you.
What type of connector are you clamping for the resister.
i have a questions what if the phones jack on the panel terminal won't work is there a way you could show us how to wire up phone module in 20p panel please
would you still use end of line resistors when zone doubling
Yes, It would be best in case someone tries to cut the line. But they will work at the panel as well. The resistors also tell the panel which zone is faulting
Question i thought resistors where supposed to go at end of line
for proper supervision yes, we understand that sometime the wires are already in the wall, It will still work at the panel
there is you complete video show how program self monitoring program the panel.
So, if someone cut the phone lines in the panel, that would render the whole system useless? Right?
I mean, don't they have safeguards in place for that? Seems like a huge problem if not...
Amer ica no not true. Any good alarm company will sell a GSM radio backup with the system and this eliminates the need for phone lines. Phone lines are going away in the next few year anyways.
hi, can you make a video with de intial programing, and the IP module Configuration, thanks
o ideal, não é colocar o resistor no sensor, pois se o fizerem uma sabotagem, no sensor, fechando a zona, juntando os fios de alarme, não ira mostrar que a zona foi mexida.
I have 2 key pads already hooked up, can I add an additional 1?
the 2 I already have is a 6150 and a 6160 but I also want to add an Honeywell Lynx. I think it's called. is that possible?
+Michael D No, you can't integrate a LYNX Touch system to a VISTA alarm control panel. Did you mean the Tuxedo perhaps?
I think it's the L3000 version. Voice automated. Version
The L3000 is an all-in-one system. You can't connect a LYNX PLUS L3000 to a VISTA panel.
what is low side and high side please im kinda little confuse
Frank Longo thanks for the response this is big help for us here in asia and the video is very educational. please continue the good work
Hi, if I am using wireless, device how what do I do with left zone ports? Wire with resistor? How?
Yes, you can disable a wired zone by connecting a 2k resistor ACROSS the two zone terminal screws. Another option is to delete zones 1-8 in the *56 zone programming menus if you won't use any of the on-board wired zones.
More on EOL resistors: It is often good to not use EOL resistors to avoid vendor lock-in: when I purchased my home many years ago I was relieved to discover the EOL resistors were at the panel (SOL). The system was a GE, which I had no intention of using and used a different resistor value than the alarm panel I was going to replace it with. I think it's good practice to discuss future upgradability with your customers so they don't have to bust out their walls when switching to a different alarm panel/resistor combo. In any event, it you're going to install resistors at EOL, leave extra cable that can be pulled out so the resistors can be swapped if necessary.
Shouldn't the resistors be placed EOL?
Yes, for true line supervision, the resistors should be EOL instead of in the panel.
Clint VanRoekel Yes, if there is only a sensor in a zone. No, if there are multiple sensors in a zone. Practically No, if it's a single family home. Technically Yes, if it's a commercial place where a burglar can access the sensors during daytime.
I know this is an old comment, but... Technically, it depends.
If you are strictly using contacts that are closed when the zone is secure, making a complete circuit, it won't matter where the resistor is, because, since the resistor is in series, it won't matter where the wire is cut. If cut, the circuit will never be complete and therefore faulted permanently, just as if a door was open.
For resistors in parallel to switches that must be open to secure the zone, yes, it would have to be after any closed switches for the wire supervision to work properly. Otherwise, if the EOL is in parallel in the panel, the panel would see the resistor all the time, either in the correct state where the wire is intact and the switch is open, or the wire is cut, which is also an open circuit, just like the open switch. The panel wouldn't know the difference.
Hence why I like normally closed loops. Resistor can go in the case, and is still immune to being defeated by wire cutting, and can easily be removed if you ever switch panel brands.
EOLR -End of Line Resistor not 'At Panel Resistor' (APR)!
I believe that the presenter could have been a bit more illustrative by presenting in the video at least the Zone numbers and their location.
can you please show how to wire up multiple zone in 1 zone terminal on that panel please??
MILLANDO TOLLGIS You can't zone double on zone 1. You can wire sensors in series to have multiple devices using one zone though.
yeah lets say from fbi panel to 20p panel without using zone expander my question is how many zones can put in each zones in the panel..how many zones can hold in each zones of the terminal in 20p panel without using zone expander. how to wire series (this is home run wire)
MILLANDO TOLLGIS I think you are confusing sensors and zones. A zone can be a single sensor or it can be a group of sensors wired in series. When wiring sensors in series, so that multiple sensors are grouped into a single zone, you would not know which individual sensor was activated when that zone goes into alarm. You can connect as many sensors in series to one zone as you'd like.
last one how about the powered devices like motion sensor can i wire them in series for example 4 motion sensor in one zone is that possible?
is there a chance you could show some videos like 128 bpt or fbt please
Que caso tiene instalar el sensor si la resistencia esta en el panel, que no por eso ES RESISTENCIA DE FIN DE LÍNEA. y el cableado se ve mal
+Edgar Orozco Yes, thank you Edgar. It is always recommended to install the resistors "end of line" to properly supervise the wiring.
This is not how you wire up a panel eOL means end of line which means at the and device not at the panel
Hi Benny, it's true that EOL means end-of-line, and where possible we always recommend proper resistor placement, however, depending on the situation, putting resistors at the end of line may not be possible. For example, you may be replacing an older panel with a newer one. The older panel may have already been installed with the resistors at the panel. If not for the fact that this video is specifically meant to show you how to wire for zone doubling, I'd say just make the zone normally closed and don't include resistors at all. But with zone doubling, you must use resistors, so even if they are at the panel, they are required.
@@AlarmGrid Couldn't disagree more, do it right. Even at an old panel I go to the end of the line were the peripheral is and you put the resistor in the peripheral. This is just either ignorance or pure laziness either one is a bad excuse for an alarm professional. You effectively rendered each zone useless and not monitored if a short was on the line the panel would never know.
@@brianalex1017 You're free to disagree, that's what makes this country great! However, it isn't always possible to retrofit resistors at the end-of-line where they belong. Zone doubling actually solves this problem. Any short on a doubled zone will cause a trouble condition on both doubled zones until the short is cleared. Regardless of resistor placement.
@@AlarmGrid Your output is indicative that you clearly need more input on this situation a short would not identify a problem in a zone doubling situation if it's not eol.
@@brianalex1017 Please refer to the Vista-20P Installation Instructions dated 03/15 (the latest available). Page 8. The section on Zone Doubling.
never zone double. It will be a service nightmare down the road
+KW1S We agree that zone doubling is much more complex but it does save some money for a customer that doesn't want to pay for a 4219 zone expansion module so we wanted to show how it works.
+Sterling Donnelly yes I know. My 35 year experience when I have to service old contacts that have high resistance the zone that goes off is not the zone that is actually the problem. I don't give the customer a choice. It's a 4219 or just 8 zones. Not to take away anything from the video, it's good instructional video.
+KW1S No, we appreciate the feedback. We always encourage people to use zone expanders over zone doubling.
Zone doubling rocks. It's not so much about saving money. It makes for a cleaner install, especially for installs with greater than 16 zones. I have over 30 zones. I solder my resistors to the wire, use heat shrink, then connect resistor right to the panel when EOL is not desired. I don't think it's as complex as people hear make it out to be. Don't hesitate to zone double, works great.
Here's the LV Hack again. Dude, you was privi to a gravy train with biscuit wheels for an upgrade. It was a bird's nest before and you're turning the homeruns back into one. You have an open wall cavity behind the enclosure that you could neatly dress the runs to the zones then push the slack back into the cavity to be utilized yet for another day/upgrade. Also, it looks like you're using 3M silicon butt connectors...you know 3M makes a direct depth tool specifically for their connectors or maybe they didn't think installers would just use their "Ideal T-strippers" or lineman pliers? I see you're still spreading the cancerous idea of terminating the EOL's back at the control panel....geez!
If the resistor is EOL if the sensor gets removed and it hasn't got a tamper switch, the alarm panel will not notice any difference.
james stephenson Not necessarily true, depends on how the zone parameters are configured zone(+)---\/\/\/--------------[device]----------------( - )zone, although the EOL/\/\/- is mounted @ the control, removal of the initiating device would cause an alarm or a zone fault condition
+GypsyMoFoJoe if the system is armed on a non 24-hour monitored zone
There is a reason it is called an END OF LINE. People circumvent this all the time. Not recommended by any manufacturer.
God awful wire management, there are ways to make it pretty, twist your pairs to start.
For the record, I hate jelly crimps. They scream unqualified worker to me, and always makes craftsmanship look shitty. Give me StaKon buttsplices or give me death.
Totally unprofessional.just buy a dam zone expander. You should always use the keep it simple stupid method. Trying to make yourself appear smart by doing such things are a disservice to people.Put in the zone expander and make the system easier to troubleshoot should it need service.