Arctic is a mid grade spa with great marketing, and a crazy price tag... It's funny you can either put your money into building a top tub or you do what these guys do, build to a mid grade and spend tons on the branding, spin and marketing. It has a great shell, Cheap Chinese parts, cheap insulation package, and a good floor, hell they don't even clamp the pressure lines, they just dip glue them... Middle of the road and way over priced... Watch this video... ua-cam.com/video/gUuQgEHod8o/v-deo.html Not 100% sure on maxx but check hot tub university
The Arctic is big on brand spin and marketing but I cant see where the real quality is or where they justify the price, IMHO its mid build quality and my litmus test for insulation is simple... It needs to at least meet local code for a house... a hot tub is hotter so the heat transfer rate is higher so it needs to be at least as good as the code for your house, Neither of the spas has insulation packages that would meet code for your house. The shell on the Arctic is good, the Maxx is cradle supported, parts on the Arctic are no name the Maxx uses good parts and neither one clamps the plumbing lines www.hottubuniversity.com/arctic-spa/
thank-you for your help there is a lot of different things sales people say that is the best and the competitors do it wrong and vise versa.your videos help a lot.
Hi Chris, It's brutal out there, the spin and marketing and branding on some brands eat up so much of the money that they can't even afford to build a good hot tub with what is left over. check out Hot Tub University for more info.
CAtching up on your video's as I am in the process of repairing roto molded 2 person hot tub. Where can I buy the right kind of foam: Icynene open Celled foam? Hi there.💯 Just subscribed to your channel 👍as I search on youtube to help me with a leak on roto molded 2 person hot tub. I took out 80% of spray foam so I could get at the jets. I had to jack it up because you can only work at it underneath, only one panel door. A few large rectangular designated area's to work in. Very tight to work. Today I finally found one leak area, the light seal area. I will start googling how to remove and reseal with silicone. Anyway, I looked at your vid on insulating, you pointed out homedepot 700$ spray foam is the better. But you used a word for a better foam called Icynene Open Celled foam. I googled to see where I could buy this because in a roto molded hot tub, a Strong Spa brand, Aruba-Evolution from Costco, it is a real pain to have to had pull all the foam out to find the leak! I was hoping to not have to spend 700 at home depot to re spray it and have the same issue if a leak happens again. I have 6 inches of rigid foam, and thin plywood, that the 2 person hot tub is sitting on. In your video on insulation replacement, you did not say where to buy the Icynene Open Celled foam. This foam is the type that would be softer for me to pull out when another leak happens as the hot tub ages. Thank you so much for all your vids! Plus you are Canadian! I live on Prince Edward Island and love the hot tub in the Winter time. Looks like the Icynene Open Celled foam is what I need but where? Cheers, MaryEllen😊
No Manufacturers really sell direct except the little guys and cheap stuff. But there are guys that operate out of low overhead environments that can save you a ton.
I would love to know your opinion of the Hydropool Self-Cleaning Aqua Trainer before investing C$25K. BTW, thank you for all the information provided in your video's. I now know what to look for and questions to ask before buying a swim spas.
Hi, Chris. Great vids. Great info. Thanks. I recently purchased a used tub that had been left to freeze in the New Jersey winter. I have just finished replacing every single manifold, and now that we are again watertight, I am thinking about how I will insulate the tub. The existing foam is of limited thickness, and I had to peel much of it away when repairing/replacing the fittings. The motors are outside the insulation, so I don't see reclaiming the motor heat as a possibility. However, I do want to retain as much of the water-heat as possible. I am considering using icynene foam and spraying the hoses and shell. But I am also thinking that the motors need some ventilation. I would welcome your advice before I move forward. I'd be happy to send some pictures if they'd help. Thanks in advance!
if you spray with HD foam you really impair the access if you ever have a leak again. you can buy the open-celled foam kits but they are expensive, the idea is to spray the sides where there are no motors and then make sure to leave lots of air around the motors so they can breathe. another less expensive way is to put 4" or 6" fiberglass pink or Roxull into industrial garbage bags and wrap them up like presents try not to compress the insulation. then tuck take them closed and fit them in all around the tub.
@@ChrisWheatley Thanks for the ridiculously prompt response. After watching your videos, I was pretty-much sold on Icynene spray foam, because the pink stuff was of limited value. You seemed to suggest that only a friggin' idiot would put pink stuff in garbage bags and stuff them into the box. LOL. Will you be kind enough to debunk or clarify my take from the vids?
@@garydaley3462 Manufacturers often use 2" of this stuff and that's not ok . 4 -6 inches is a lot better but spray foam is the top. I can get you the proper spray kit with the right foam. email me chris@hottubuniversity.com also here is the newer insulation video ua-cam.com/video/4XhgwOQKQFs/v-deo.html
Really I like a way of making spas more than any particular brand. So hand rolled self supporting shells, Balboa heating and control systems, no propritary parts, glued and clamped plumbing lines and a good full fpam icynene insualtionn system but it cant be high density foam used for shell structure or yer screwed if you get a leak... there are a lot of players that fit the bill. Master, Artesian, Coast, Beachcomber (non hybrid) got to www.hottubuniversity.com hit buyers assist we can find good dealers around you.
HI, i'm looking at Viking. They seem reasonably priced. I had a Marquis for 20 years and it was fabulous. However, there is no dealer near by. Any help with Viking would be appreciated.
Hot Springs is not a bad tub or a great tub. The problem is with a lot of the well-known brands is that the reason they are well known is that they spend a tonne of money on Brand awareness, marketing and advertising. (see video: ua-cam.com/video/gUuQgEHod8o/v-deo.html The reality is you can either put the money into the tub or you can put the money into the advertising. The biggest issue I have is the parts list, some guys go and get parts made just to fit their spas instead of spending money on the top reliable OEM parts. This issue is that these parts are not as good as the top OEM stuff and because it only fits their spa you don't have a lot of options for replacements. Whereas if you stick to brands that use the top parts like Balboa and Waterways then not only will you end up with a better parts list but also you can source parts from tons of places which means you can't get held to ransom for the part :-) see video: ua-cam.com/video/7O6ynNUWqM8/v-deo.html
Hey Chris great videos I'm thinking about purchasing a plug and play hot tub I live in Canada Saskatchewan so it gets really cold here in the winter the two I'm looking at is a Freeflow azure for 4000 or a Nordic stella ms for 5000 both brand new tubs. Was just wondering your thoughts on the two tubs which is better or if I should stay away..thnx
Hey Dude Nordic is good but I wish the insulation was better, ping me on www.hottubuniversity.com or chris@hottubuniversity.com and ill go through your area for you and see what we can find
Chris Wheatley hey chris i tryed to emial you not sure if it worked but i live in Regina sk i can also drive to Saskatoon sk.. just looking for a good tub thanks again🤙🏼
with the modern icynen foam its easy... touch the foam find the wet spot with a shop vac the wet foam out the leak will be obvious, then refoam... all the videos and nightmares about full foam are from 10 years ago or cheap tubs using poly based foams, that shit turns to a rock after a while and its a nightmare to get it out!
+wrathofall Hot Springs is a tricky one, their parts list is non standard and the electronic Control system made for them by invensys has had a litany of problems. also their spa side controllers have a high failure rate... if you look at the forums forget the recommendation section look at the section where people are looking for help fixing thier spas... the Watkins spas (caldera, hotspot, hotsprings, Freeflow) account for a huge percentage of the help requests.. speaks volumes about how they hold up in the field... Because they are non standard parts it means you are limited where you can buy parts from. They are also a nightmare to work on because the foam they use is an older school poly based foam and once it hardens its a nightmare to get out, also there is limited access as the sides do not come off easily. Bullfrog I don't even want to get into.. there have a been a lot of issues with these spas from stagnation issues behind the seats. The truth is they are a bit of a gimmick spa, the whole pitch is around these replaceable seats and the cost to replace them is too high. plus the jetting is limited to these little areas... 3 things I want in a Hot Tub... 1- self supporting shell... 2- Balboa controls and waterways jets and fittings, 3- Icynene foam insulation... 4. Good local dealer that has been carrying the same line for at least 3-5 years... Try Twilight series, good build, and probably one of the best performing spas out there just make sure you have a local dealer, watch out for the travelling road shows as you can end up with no backup.
+Chris Wheatley Chris...thank you so much for your thoughtful and in depth response! I have been looking into master spas. I'm having trouble understanding which product line is top/middle/lower. It seems their Twilight series is top. Am I correct? One concern though, is the 2x4 wood frame construction. I have to say, it's throwing me off. Why wouldn't they go with a more modern, engineered plastic of some sort? This is so difficult lol!
+wrathofall The Twilight is the therapy massage line, and although the Phelps line is technically the higher one I like the performance and features of Twilight better. You can order it with a Steel frame but its a gimmick... Behind the skirt of a spa is bone dry, because these are self supporting hulls the frame really only is there so you have something to attach the skirt to. Generally the only time I would worry about the frame is on a cheaper shell that is cradle supported which means its a thin shell and the weight s carried by the frame...assuming yer not doing something silly like installing it in a low lying continually wet area the frame and base are really not important on a self supporting shell.
I am so confused. I have looked at so many tubs and there are so many pros and cons. I have looked at artic, jacuzzi, sunrise and beachcomber. Really don't know where to begin what is the I can feel confident in that is good quality
Of that group the Beachcomber for sure, Jacuzzi and Arctic are no name parts and sunrise is a cradle supported shell and batton type insulation, my rule of thumb is simple... if the insulation package on your hot tub does not meet building code for a house in your area then its simply not good enough. and only the BC out of that group has an insulation system that would meet code. That being said the BC's don't do anything in the really high-end therapy range, the primarily do a few good jets and a lot of little cheap ones. email me with your location and ill see what i can find on the ground. chris@hottubuniversity.com
You are talking about full fill insulation. What brands even offer this? All brands seem to be perimeter. Is this something you would do yourself? Here in Canada (NWT in my case), it's all about the insulation.
Yeah there are a few still doing it, the problem is to do full foam right you need to go to the expensive Icynene stuff or you have access issues it's cheaper to just do some blah blah blah about free fairies that live in the big hole where the insulation should be :-) My rule of thumb is simple... If it will not meet code in a house in Canada it's not good enough for a hot tub. We don't have these stupid arguments in the building industry because it's regulated but in Hot Tubv Land you can do and say almost anything when it comes to insulation... email me chris@hottubuniversity.com ill find you something up there.
What is your opinion on Arctic spas and Maxx
Arctic is a mid grade spa with great marketing, and a crazy price tag... It's funny you can either put your money into building a top tub or you do what these guys do, build to a mid grade and spend tons on the branding, spin and marketing. It has a great shell, Cheap Chinese parts, cheap insulation package, and a good floor, hell they don't even clamp the pressure lines, they just dip glue them... Middle of the road and way over priced... Watch this video... ua-cam.com/video/gUuQgEHod8o/v-deo.html
Not 100% sure on maxx but check hot tub university
The Arctic is big on brand spin and marketing but I cant see where the real quality is or where they justify the price, IMHO its mid build quality and my litmus test for insulation is simple... It needs to at least meet local code for a house... a hot tub is hotter so the heat transfer rate is higher so it needs to be at least as good as the code for your house, Neither of the spas has insulation packages that would meet code for your house. The shell on the Arctic is good, the Maxx is cradle supported, parts on the Arctic are no name the Maxx uses good parts and neither one clamps the plumbing lines www.hottubuniversity.com/arctic-spa/
Cheap Chinese parts ?
The parts are same a s Hotspring , Waterway etc etc who use the same factory to produce their jets and filters
@@heckdi So what, they don't clap their lines, only dip glue them & that in itself is enough to steer away from that brand.
thank-you for your help there is a lot of different things sales people say that is the best and the competitors do it wrong and vise versa.your videos help a lot.
Hi Chris, It's brutal out there, the spin and marketing and branding on some brands eat up so much of the money that they can't even afford to build a good hot tub with what is left over. check out Hot Tub University for more info.
Thank God I watched this guy's video before I almost purchased a"MaaX" spa, I'm going to go Artesian.
Please don't mention Chris and God in the same sentence, we have to work with him and his head is big enough......... :)
CAtching up on your video's as I am in the process of repairing roto molded 2 person hot tub. Where can I buy the right kind of foam: Icynene open Celled foam?
Hi there.💯 Just subscribed to your channel 👍as I search on youtube to help me with a leak on roto molded 2 person hot tub. I took out 80% of spray foam so I could get at the jets. I had to jack it up because you can only work at it underneath, only one panel door. A few large rectangular designated area's to work in. Very tight to work. Today I finally found one leak area, the light seal area. I will start googling how to remove and reseal with silicone. Anyway, I looked at your vid on insulating, you pointed out homedepot 700$ spray foam is the better. But you used a word for a better foam called Icynene Open Celled foam. I googled to see where I could buy this because in a roto molded hot tub, a Strong Spa brand, Aruba-Evolution from Costco, it is a real pain to have to had pull all the foam out to find the leak! I was hoping to not have to spend 700 at home depot to re spray it and have the same issue if a leak happens again. I have 6 inches of rigid foam, and thin plywood, that the 2 person hot tub is sitting on.
In your video on insulation replacement, you did not say where to buy the Icynene Open Celled foam. This foam is the type that would be softer for me to pull out when another leak happens as the hot tub ages.
Thank you so much for all your vids! Plus you are Canadian! I live on Prince Edward Island and love the hot tub in the Winter time. Looks like the Icynene Open Celled foam is what I need but where? Cheers, MaryEllen😊
Great video! Any recommendations for brands that work well in Canadian winters?
No Manufacturers really sell direct except the little guys and cheap stuff.
But there are guys that operate out of low overhead environments that can save you a ton.
What’s your thought on Coast Spas?
I would love to know your opinion of the Hydropool Self-Cleaning Aqua Trainer before investing C$25K. BTW, thank you for all the information provided in your video's. I now know what to look for and questions to ask before buying a swim spas.
spot on guy says it how it is....
Hi, Chris.
Great vids. Great info. Thanks.
I recently purchased a used tub that had been left to freeze in the New Jersey winter. I have just finished replacing every single manifold, and now that we are again watertight, I am thinking about how I will insulate the tub. The existing foam is of limited thickness, and I had to peel much of it away when repairing/replacing the fittings. The motors are outside the insulation, so I don't see reclaiming the motor heat as a possibility. However, I do want to retain as much of the water-heat as possible.
I am considering using icynene foam and spraying the hoses and shell. But I am also thinking that the motors need some ventilation.
I would welcome your advice before I move forward. I'd be happy to send some pictures if they'd help.
Thanks in advance!
if you spray with HD foam you really impair the access if you ever have a leak again. you can buy the open-celled foam kits but they are expensive, the idea is to spray the sides where there are no motors and then make sure to leave lots of air around the motors so they can breathe. another less expensive way is to put 4" or 6" fiberglass pink or Roxull into industrial garbage bags and wrap them up like presents try not to compress the insulation. then tuck take them closed and fit them in all around the tub.
@@ChrisWheatley Thanks for the ridiculously prompt response.
After watching your videos, I was pretty-much sold on Icynene spray foam, because the pink stuff was of limited value. You seemed to suggest that only a friggin' idiot would put pink stuff in garbage bags and stuff them into the box. LOL.
Will you be kind enough to debunk or clarify my take from the vids?
Also, I am not concerned with a future leak, as I am now well-practiced in finding and repairing them.
@@garydaley3462 Manufacturers often use 2" of this stuff and that's not ok . 4 -6 inches is a lot better but spray foam is the top.
I can get you the proper spray kit with the right foam. email me chris@hottubuniversity.com also here is the newer insulation video ua-cam.com/video/4XhgwOQKQFs/v-deo.html
What brand of hot tub do you like best?
Really I like a way of making spas more than any particular brand. So hand rolled self supporting shells, Balboa heating and control systems, no propritary parts, glued and clamped plumbing lines and a good full fpam icynene insualtionn system but it cant be high density foam used for shell structure or yer screwed if you get a leak... there are a lot of players that fit the bill. Master, Artesian, Coast, Beachcomber (non hybrid) got to www.hottubuniversity.com hit buyers assist we can find good dealers around you.
Can you buy a master spa direct from manufacture?
HI,
i'm looking at Viking. They seem reasonably priced. I had a Marquis for 20 years and it was fabulous. However, there is no dealer near by. Any help with Viking would be appreciated.
Go to the buyer's assistance page here and ill try and find you some info.
hottubuniversity.com/buyers-assistance/
what's your opinion on on Hot Springs Spas I'm currently looking at the envoy
Hot Springs is not a bad tub or a great tub. The problem is with a lot of the well-known brands is that the reason they are well known is that they spend a tonne of money on Brand awareness, marketing and advertising. (see video: ua-cam.com/video/gUuQgEHod8o/v-deo.html The reality is you can either put the money into the tub or you can put the money into the advertising. The biggest issue I have is the parts list, some guys go and get parts made just to fit their spas instead of spending money on the top reliable OEM parts. This issue is that these parts are not as good as the top OEM stuff and because it only fits their spa you don't have a lot of options for replacements. Whereas if you stick to brands that use the top parts like Balboa and Waterways then not only will you end up with a better parts list but also you can source parts from tons of places which means you can't get held to ransom for the part :-) see video: ua-cam.com/video/7O6ynNUWqM8/v-deo.html
Hey Chris great videos I'm thinking about purchasing a plug and play hot tub I live in Canada Saskatchewan so it gets really cold here in the winter the two I'm looking at is a Freeflow azure for 4000 or a Nordic stella ms for 5000 both brand new tubs. Was just wondering your thoughts on the two tubs which is better or if I should stay away..thnx
Hey Dude
Nordic is good but I wish the insulation was better, ping me on www.hottubuniversity.com or chris@hottubuniversity.com and ill go through your area for you and see what we can find
Chris Wheatley hey chris i tryed to emial you not sure if it worked but i live in Regina sk i can also drive to Saskatoon sk.. just looking for a good tub thanks again🤙🏼
But if I am the service tech i dont want to mess with the full foam. Looks like a pain to the butt. the perimeter insulation looks like the way to go?
with the modern icynen foam its easy... touch the foam find the wet spot with a shop vac the wet foam out the leak will be obvious, then refoam... all the videos and nightmares about full foam are from 10 years ago or cheap tubs using poly based foams, that shit turns to a rock after a while and its a nightmare to get it out!
Chris Wheatley
Thanks for the information. Enjoy your videos.
Can you recommend any manufacturers that do everything the right way? I'm looking at either hot springs or bullfrog.
+wrathofall Hot Springs is a tricky one, their parts list is non standard and the electronic Control system made for them by invensys has had a litany of problems. also their spa side controllers have a high failure rate... if you look at the forums forget the recommendation section look at the section where people are looking for help fixing thier spas... the Watkins spas (caldera, hotspot, hotsprings, Freeflow) account for a huge percentage of the help requests.. speaks volumes about how they hold up in the field... Because they are non standard parts it means you are limited where you can buy parts from. They are also a nightmare to work on because the foam they use is an older school poly based foam and once it hardens its a nightmare to get out, also there is limited access as the sides do not come off easily. Bullfrog I don't even want to get into.. there have a been a lot of issues with these spas from stagnation issues behind the seats. The truth is they are a bit of a gimmick spa, the whole pitch is around these replaceable seats and the cost to replace them is too high. plus the jetting is limited to these little areas... 3 things I want in a Hot Tub... 1- self supporting shell... 2- Balboa controls and waterways jets and fittings, 3- Icynene foam insulation... 4. Good local dealer that has been carrying the same line for at least 3-5 years... Try Twilight series, good build, and probably one of the best performing spas out there just make sure you have a local dealer, watch out for the travelling road shows as you can end up with no backup.
+Chris Wheatley Chris...thank you so much for your thoughtful and in depth response! I have been looking into master spas. I'm having trouble understanding which product line is top/middle/lower. It seems their Twilight series is top. Am I correct? One concern though, is the 2x4 wood frame construction. I have to say, it's throwing me off. Why wouldn't they go with a more modern, engineered plastic of some sort? This is so difficult lol!
+wrathofall The Twilight is the therapy massage line, and although the Phelps line is technically the higher one I like the performance and features of Twilight better. You can order it with a Steel frame but its a gimmick... Behind the skirt of a spa is bone dry, because these are self supporting hulls the frame really only is there so you have something to attach the skirt to. Generally the only time I would worry about the frame is on a cheaper shell that is cradle supported which means its a thin shell and the weight s carried by the frame...assuming yer not doing something silly like installing it in a low lying continually wet area the frame and base are really not important on a self supporting shell.
+Chris Wheatley I really like the Twilight series. 7.25 to be exact. I need to go try one. I hear great things about the shoulder jets.
+Chris Wheatley. I tremendously appreciate your guidance! Are you going to continue to make videos?
I am so confused. I have looked at so many tubs and there are so many pros and cons. I have looked at artic, jacuzzi, sunrise and beachcomber. Really don't know where to begin what is the I can feel confident in that is good quality
Of that group the Beachcomber for sure, Jacuzzi and Arctic are no name parts and sunrise is a cradle supported shell and batton type insulation, my rule of thumb is simple... if the insulation package on your hot tub does not meet building code for a house in your area then its simply not good enough. and only the BC out of that group has an insulation system that would meet code. That being said the BC's don't do anything in the really high-end therapy range, the primarily do a few good jets and a lot of little cheap ones.
email me with your location and ill see what i can find on the ground. chris@hottubuniversity.com
Chris Wheatley thank you for the reply. I live near Barrie Ontario Canada
You are talking about full fill insulation. What brands even offer this? All brands seem to be perimeter. Is this something you would do yourself? Here in Canada (NWT in my case), it's all about the insulation.
Yeah there are a few still doing it, the problem is to do full foam right you need to go to the expensive Icynene stuff or you have access issues it's cheaper to just do some blah blah blah about free fairies that live in the big hole where the insulation should be :-) My rule of thumb is simple... If it will not meet code in a house in Canada it's not good enough for a hot tub. We don't have these stupid arguments in the building industry because it's regulated but in Hot Tubv Land you can do and say almost anything when it comes to insulation... email me chris@hottubuniversity.com ill find you something up there.