I replaced my water filter in the spa and now hardly any water is in the water filter pocket. The last filter was under water. What could the problem be.
Hi Mike The big thing here that no manufacturers want you to know is that none of the miracle onboard systems are anywhere near as effective as the aftermarket stuff like Spa marvel, or Aquafinesse. I find with every one of the onboard systems you need to still maintain at least 1-3ppm of chlorine or another halogen-based oxidizer. with the Spa marvel, for instance, there is no upfront cost, if you use it from new and regularly it gives you a lifetime guarantee on the jets, and it has the added advantage of keeping your pH stable, and we run ours at .5ppm of chlorine with a copper, zinc Ion cartridge (like eco pure or nature II or spa frog). so what is the point of buying any of the addons? I would rank them like this... AOP which is injecting ozone into the water then passing it over an ultraviolet light is the best. Ion is a good addon. Salt water is the worst... its still high chemical and finicky
Pressure filtration is better as far as effects on water flow. Centrifugal pumps do better with a pressure filter, this is because the restriction on the suction side of a pump causes more restriction to water flow. One of the reasons why the fire department teaches about placing pumps near the water source and no having a long suction hose. A 50 foot filter on pressure side and the same pump brand and model will pass much more water than a suction side filter. The MAIN reason for suction side is ease of access for consumers. For this reason a modern suction side filtering system has a check valve built in to keep the suction (inches of mercury) to a minimum. This way when the filters clog they don't destroy the pump. And a 100% suction side filter system on a jet pump is a really bad idea. According to UL/ANSI standards a spa must filter a min of the entire amount of water passing through the filter ever 24 hours. This is no where near enough to make the debris make it to the filter. I my testing over 20 years a min of 30 GPM for 10-12 hours or 45 GPM for about 8 hours is far better for a spa that is actually used by people. About 21,000 gallons min in a 300 gallon spa. Filtering is a progressive reduction of particulates over time and you need AGITATION to move debris into the filter housing. Those spas having no agitation use lots of chemicals to remove organic waste, and they push chlorine generators and lots of products sold by the dealer.
Good points but we aren't really talking about efficiency we only really care about the more efficient flow rate when we are running the pumps at high speed and want the massage jetting running and all systems either totally or partially bypass the filter with the exception of a couple brands. As you mentioned filtering is a progressive reduction of particles over time so we can easily counter the small difference by running an extra few minutes of filtration. Also, there are a lot of other things affecting flow rates especially the use of elbows and other restrictions caused by inefficient plumbing, even how close an elbow is to the intake, and how sharp the angle and the size of the suction line makes a drastic difference. Both systems are reasonably easy to access, the main reasons we went to suction side filtration were, cost reduction as we no longer had to buy a pressure filter housing, you just vac form the filter area and put in 2 threaded fittings and a weir gate, also cleaning debris prior to the equipment made sense for increasing the longevity of the equipment, and finally the first guys doing it had the advantage of a unique selling point... The last two paragraphs have less to do with the filter being suction side or pressure side and more to do with the filter pump size, its a big part of the reason I do not like circ pumps and prefer a high flow filtration system.
So some put microban in the filter material and it is hotly debated whether it does anything at all. In my experience I have noticed zero difference. It certainly does not disinfect the water for any length of time and while some claim that it prevents growth on the actual filter the reality is the sanitiser in the water prevents it already... my belief is it's just another gimmick.
Thanks for this. Next question... Cleaning my beloved (pleatco) filters.... At this point I can take one and spin it on a broom stick with the garden hose sprayer, the other one, unless I drill a hole in it, not so much. I'm not opposed to drilling and inserting some type of plug, but I do fear the law of unintended consequences. I haven't used the pressure washer, yet, out of fear of tearing the filter material. What says you?
I'm with you on the hole fear :-) might be unanticipated nastiness. and power sprayed is ok if it's held far enough away but you will shread it if it's too close... the best is the attachment we have for a garden hose called a filter flosser
Awesome videos Chris. Can you tell me your opinion on the master spas filters using the eco pure feature? Trying to decide if they are worth the money(approx $100). Or if a aftermarket filter is more logical. I always clean my filter with a spray cleaner and it continues to look like new. I have the clarity balance 8. Yr. 2019
depends on what chemicals you are using, if you are using a good Enzyme or mineral system like this: hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/ then its not critical, but it still helps.
I think 100% filtration is better because it keeps debris out of the equipment. I agree bypass inlets in the footwell may help collect debris that collects there and doesn't rise to the overflow compartment containing the filters. If you have a continuous circulation pump, it should be 100% filtered. Jet pumps can draw from bypass inlets.
There is no such thing as 100% filtration.... You would need to filter all the water into a separate container then once it was all filtered put it back in the tub... Because your filtered water get immediately dumped back into the tub and mixes with the unfiltered water it means that it's just marketing bullshit... 100% filtration means nothing in a hot tub.
Great info as always Chris 😊 What system will I have on the Master Spa Phelps 7 (LSX 700) I have ordered ? It has the upgraded Masterpur system, not an upgrade I chose, just how it comes. Are products like Spa Marvel still worth using along side Masterpur? I have asked the same question on your blog 😊 Again, thanks for your videos and advice. Andy
New Subscriber Here! Curious what do you prefer for hot tub covers for winter months? Do you suggest the factory cover or aftermarket? Thank you in advance!
Hi Zach A good 5" standard cover with a center baffle is good. we have sold a lot fo smart tops but there are some big issues, they are falling apart. Covanna makes a nice expensive automated cover but again high failure rates... both companies have new improved versions out but they are now so only time will tell... the roll up covers are pretty good as well...
Deadly work Chris. Thanks again for keeping us informed on your no bullshit opinions. Keep it coming
Id like to see a video or a reply on UV systems, ozone generator. Then Chlorine vs bromine. Awesome videos Chris!
Yeah, they can be confusing. I'm purchasing an Artesian with their Diamond AOP.
I replaced my water filter in the spa and now hardly any water is in the water filter pocket. The last filter was under water. What could the problem be.
either the filter is too long or not seated properly or the water level is low or the weir gate (skimmer) is stuck.
Hey Chris would love to see a segment about sterilizers IE uv , copper , etc and which does the best
Hi Mike
The big thing here that no manufacturers want you to know is that none of the miracle onboard systems are anywhere near as effective as the aftermarket stuff like Spa marvel, or Aquafinesse. I find with every one of the onboard systems you need to still maintain at least 1-3ppm of chlorine or another halogen-based oxidizer. with the Spa marvel, for instance, there is no upfront cost, if you use it from new and regularly it gives you a lifetime guarantee on the jets, and it has the added advantage of keeping your pH stable, and we run ours at .5ppm of chlorine with a copper, zinc Ion cartridge (like eco pure or nature II or spa frog). so what is the point of buying any of the addons?
I would rank them like this...
AOP which is injecting ozone into the water then passing it over an ultraviolet light is the best.
Ion is a good addon.
Salt water is the worst... its still high chemical and finicky
Pressure filtration is better as far as effects on water flow. Centrifugal pumps do better with a pressure filter, this is because the restriction on the suction side of a pump causes more restriction to water flow. One of the reasons why the fire department teaches about placing pumps near the water source and no having a long suction hose. A 50 foot filter on pressure side and the same pump brand and model will pass much more water than a suction side filter.
The MAIN reason for suction side is ease of access for consumers. For this reason a modern suction side filtering system has a check valve built in to keep the suction (inches of mercury) to a minimum. This way when the filters clog they don't destroy the pump. And a 100% suction side filter system on a jet pump is a really bad idea.
According to UL/ANSI standards a spa must filter a min of the entire amount of water passing through the filter ever 24 hours. This is no where near enough to make the debris make it to the filter. I my testing over 20 years a min of 30 GPM for 10-12 hours or 45 GPM for about 8 hours is far better for a spa that is actually used by people. About 21,000 gallons min in a 300 gallon spa.
Filtering is a progressive reduction of particulates over time and you need AGITATION to move debris into the filter housing. Those spas having no agitation use lots of chemicals to remove organic waste, and they push chlorine generators and lots of products sold by the dealer.
Good points but we aren't really talking about efficiency we only really care about the more efficient flow rate when we are running the pumps at high speed and want the massage jetting running and all systems either totally or partially bypass the filter with the exception of a couple brands. As you mentioned filtering is a progressive reduction of particles over time so we can easily counter the small difference by running an extra few minutes of filtration. Also, there are a lot of other things affecting flow rates especially the use of elbows and other restrictions caused by inefficient plumbing, even how close an elbow is to the intake, and how sharp the angle and the size of the suction line makes a drastic difference.
Both systems are reasonably easy to access, the main reasons we went to suction side filtration were, cost reduction as we no longer had to buy a pressure filter housing, you just vac form the filter area and put in 2 threaded fittings and a weir gate, also cleaning debris prior to the equipment made sense for increasing the longevity of the equipment, and finally the first guys doing it had the advantage of a unique selling point...
The last two paragraphs have less to do with the filter being suction side or pressure side and more to do with the filter pump size, its a big part of the reason I do not like circ pumps and prefer a high flow filtration system.
Are Amazon filter any good?
Im sure there are good ones and bad ones on amazon
Great info as always! Any thoughts on what makes one filter brand better than another? Antimicrobial?
So some put microban in the filter material and it is hotly debated whether it does anything at all. In my experience I have noticed zero difference. It certainly does not disinfect the water for any length of time and while some claim that it prevents growth on the actual filter the reality is the sanitiser in the water prevents it already... my belief is it's just another gimmick.
Thanks for this. Next question... Cleaning my beloved (pleatco) filters.... At this point I can take one and spin it on a broom stick with the garden hose sprayer, the other one, unless I drill a hole in it, not so much. I'm not opposed to drilling and inserting some type of plug, but I do fear the law of unintended consequences. I haven't used the pressure washer, yet, out of fear of tearing the filter material. What says you?
I'm with you on the hole fear :-) might be unanticipated nastiness. and power sprayed is ok if it's held far enough away but you will shread it if it's too close... the best is the attachment we have for a garden hose called a filter flosser
@@ChrisWheatley Thanks so much, I shall try them both.
Awesome videos Chris. Can you tell me your opinion on the master spas filters using the eco pure feature? Trying to decide if they are worth the money(approx $100). Or if a aftermarket filter is more logical. I always clean my filter with a spray cleaner and it continues to look like new. I have the clarity balance 8. Yr. 2019
depends on what chemicals you are using, if you are using a good Enzyme or mineral system like this: hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/ then its not critical, but it still helps.
I think 100% filtration is better because it keeps debris out of the equipment. I agree bypass inlets in the footwell may help collect debris that collects there and doesn't rise to the overflow compartment containing the filters. If you have a continuous circulation pump, it should be 100% filtered. Jet pumps can draw from bypass inlets.
There is no such thing as 100% filtration.... You would need to filter all the water into a separate container then once it was all filtered put it back in the tub... Because your filtered water get immediately dumped back into the tub and mixes with the unfiltered water it means that it's just marketing bullshit... 100% filtration means nothing in a hot tub.
Great info as always Chris 😊 What system will I have on the Master Spa Phelps 7 (LSX 700) I have ordered ? It has the upgraded Masterpur system, not an upgrade I chose, just how it comes. Are products like Spa Marvel still worth using along side Masterpur? I have asked the same question on your blog 😊 Again, thanks for your videos and advice. Andy
Hey Andy, sorry I missed this, but I remember answering on the blog :-)
I'm really not sure, so let me know how the system works for you.
New Subscriber Here! Curious what do you prefer for hot tub covers for winter months? Do you suggest the factory cover or aftermarket? Thank you in advance!
Hi Zach
A good 5" standard cover with a center baffle is good. we have sold a lot fo smart tops but there are some big issues, they are falling apart. Covanna makes a nice expensive automated cover but again high failure rates... both companies have new improved versions out but they are now so only time will tell... the roll up covers are pretty good as well...
nice mohawk
All filtering common sense Chris. Uhhh you grew a horn.