SF6 is in a lot of ways similar to SF 3rd Strike, minus the balance problems of that game (never got a Turbo/Super/Ultimate edition which could help, lots of trash characters/supers in this game). These games both have a core mechanic (Drive Impact vs Parry, SF6 also has parry but its far weaker than 3rd Strike's) that dominate the competitive scene. Both systems essentially involve stealing the turn of the opponent. That also means a couple of things: First there will be a lot of mindgames with these systems (which also means that hardcore fans of those systems will continue to play them long after their cycle ends), second the skill ceiling is a lot higher (which in turn makes any player skill discrepancy more pronounced), thirdly the matches will be explosive at any level, especially if you get read (check recent 1mil SF6 tourney, many blowouts & perfect victories) & lastly the tier lists evolve around the core system, more so than most games (meaning who abuses the system better, meaning who counters that system, meaning who has more options to get in or get out).
Normal FGC player: a tame take! LK: have you seen how broken Kohaku used to be DIFFERENT COLORED BOMBS and/or Tagar in Chrono phantasma is a useless mess of a character.
For me, it really depends on the game and the character I’m fighting with/in. There are some annoying ass game and character mechanics. For example… In GGST; I love fighting Potemkin, but hate Bridget with a passion.
Two men looking at the same graph. LK: "Does this mean that almost every character has won a CPT event, and every character has been in Top 8?!" Broski: "It doesn't look very balanced"
I feel like everyone is missing the thing that makes throw loops so good outside of it being a 50/50, it’s that your typical answers to throws stop working. In most fighters you read a throw and backdash or jump. In SF6 you get anti-aired for jumping throws, and you can’t backdash a strike. Strive doesn’t have throw loops as an oppressive tool because- 1: You have throw protection so you can’t be meaty thrown. 2: Backdashes have throw AND strike invuln, covering 2 options. 3, arguably the biggest: you can ACTUALLY punish a throw either way. You cannot have the SF6 throw loop discourse without the context of how stupidly safe a normal throw in this game IS when done meaty. You cant jump because they can anti-air you on WHIFF, they’re safe on whiff if you backdash, every single throw setup is also a strike mixup, and you gain drive very quickly on offense if you’re not using it. At 20:35 you see NL at just over 2 bars. by the third 50/50, he’s at 3 bars. By the time Noah DPs, he’s down on drive despite not losing ANY drive up until he reversals out. And even then, NL can just. do it again from a true blockstring. And during every single one, he could’ve just done neutral jump jHP and exploded noah for trying to tech. And if it started from a punish counter throw? You can do it MIDSCREEN. All that said, this is still my favorite game because i like to gamba and it makes parry a not so free option to press at all times.
I agree with most stuff you said, besides the last line really. I actually hate how much I "Feel" like I'm gambling in sf6. Yes fighting games are about reads, which is effectively saying "guessing" and reactions etc, but you're not reacting to a throw loop lol. Once someone is cornered, either way, you may as well start flipping coins, and rolling d20s for chance of success. It feels hard to address to "parry is free" without some arbitrary restriction, but my take is not allowing someone to parry again off of punish counter throws. Since the game barely seems to care about defensive options, may as well just go the full way.
I think in some ways you're correct however this is very clearly coming from a more anime POV. Almost everything you said here was true about SFV, but SFV did not have nearly the same throw loop problem. In SFV it was solved in two ways, one which combats what you talked about more directly by giving players a metered invincible backdash with v shift, and the other is more subtle. They made sure that every character was able to get a meaty normal after a throw in the corner but made sure every character was -2 after dashing and could not walk in in time for a meaty throw. I personally REALLY like this solution as it still lets you get some pressure but allows reversal light normals and some mediums to beat an attempted throw loop. If it were up to me, to balance throw loops in SF6 I would just do what they did in V. (While maybe allowing characters to be 0 or -1 after dash or make a "drive shift" weaker than v shift was in some way as they do clearly want 6 to be more offense heavy than V was.) EDIT: Another reason I really think this would work well is it actually meshes really well with parry. You'd think making throws whiff on forward throw walk in would make parrying on wakeup ridiculously strong BUT in SF6 attempting a parry makes your throw hurtbox wider meaning throw loops COULD work after a walk in IF the opponent attempted a parry. The fact that the SFV throw design works so well with 6 systems makes me really curious as to why it was changed in 6.
Also quite a few characters can get what is essentially guaranteed throws at high level with certain setups. Got poison on you? Better eat the next three throws because if you throw tech and are wrong, you will die instantly. Bison has bomb on you? You're eating the next throw because you will take 78% if he hits you. Rashid has level 2? You're eating the next several throws and mixups. You CAN get out of these, but the risk reward is so skewed that a lot of top players choose not to do anything. Which is why you see people just eat 10 throws in a row.
Dhalsim would be the "Off Meta" pick for this game. He's largely considered low tier because he's not "playing SF6." However, he has good matchups against several of the characters with the most tilted MU spreads (JP, Guile, a few others. )
The main problem i think is low level players confusing their own lack of skill for poor balance, and then pro players retweet their shitty takes and create discourse over nothing
@@jacobpantin7803only half trolling. Strive is the only fighting game in history where everyone agrees a character who literally never wins tournaments is top tier. No one pretends Honda is secretly top tier in sf6 off his buckler data looking good, because Honda doesn't win anything. Meanwhile in Strive, May is universally considered a top 3 character. But Slash is the only person who takes her to top 8s, and then he still loses. She's got about as many active players now as Ram, or Nago, or ABA, or even Bridget, but she never places in brackets the way these other characters do. Leo is one of the most unpopular and least picked characters, but he does everything May does but better, so there are two Leos in every top 8. Like I don't know why this is controversial. No other game's fanbase has completely arbitrary criteria like this for who's top tier. People in sf6 complain about bison and akuma and rashid because they win everything and there are 4 great players of every one of these guys per bracket. People in Tekken complain about Dragunov because every tournament you'll see in the last year has Dragunov vs Dragunov grand finals. People in Strive complain about May because they got counter poked once 2 years ago and still won the match but that button was CHEAP! Like lil bro calm down you fought one May in a tournament bracket in the last 700 days.
@@mattb6616 May being consistent top 3 is the biggest lie the top tier users invented to mess with you. I suppose it is to make the top tiers "more varied", therefore giving the idea that there are other big fish around, taking attention away from their mains. "Bro but dolphin RPS" yeah sol can do that same shit with a normal, but with better moves, reversals, strikethrow, etc And thats one of the reasons i ditched strive. Stupidest community i ever had the displeasure to play with!
@@mattb6616m. Raven won little, sheik was considerrd top tier for 2 decades in which she won nothing, dejay was considered top tier while not winning shit in early sf6
gamers of all kinds say they want balance, but all the games that people play for years and years after release are the absolute degenerate batshit ones/poorly balanced ones. mvc2, umvc3, third strike, etc. tabletop rpg players also say they want balanced classes/playbooks, but really people want fun and unique options. i'm really interested to see which modern fighters end up being played by a dedicated community long term. anyone have predictions about that?
Honestly it depends about the balance. That said 3rd strike never had the numbers, essentially it got revived by streamers. Sf 3rd Strike barely had 170,000 copies, it got steamrolled by the Alpha series (total 3,530,000 sales) & especially SF Alpha 3 (1,590,000 copies). SF Alpha series even got its anthology back in 2006, 8 years later after SFA3. Very difficult to gauge the impact of the Anniversary collection (3,100,000 copies) since it has all SF games. About your question, SF6 will be the game that will end up played by a dedicated community that wont move on, because Drive Impact is very similar to SF 3 III Strike's Parry. Like it didnt matter in 3rd Strike (which was very unbalanced with tons of trash supers and outright bad characters). Why? Because the dedicated players will play the good characters and wont care about the rest (unless they are streamers and they do a video). Obviously there will be the few players that stick with the bad character just because. Because in the end, for the dedicated players its all about the skill ceiling & the mind games.
@@GeoGyf Why do you consistently bring up the Alpha SERIES but consistently neglect SF3 SERIES, instead singling out Third Strike? That's a common thing people do, forgetting or not realizing that SF3: New Generation, and 2nd Impact exist. Now that's still not gonna change overall series sales figures, but it's a big peeve people don'n realize 3S ain't the only SF3 game... especially egregious when they realize Alpha 1 and Alpha 2 exist, which are also comparatively less popular games in their series.
Counterpoint: FGs didn't become well-balanced on/near release until very recently, not even 10 years. Like, yeah, all the old games people continue to play until today aren't well-balanced, but none of the old games that people _don't_ play are balanced well either. Having every single character be viable wasn't really an expectation back then (and frankly, wasn't possible until patching), so it's a moot point.
@@Un1234l i mean, unlike the alpha series, especially alpha 2 which has a pretty good community left, SF3: NG and 2I are rarely played today, even in comparison to 3rd Strike.
@@silverreddaniel7397 I understand that but that wasn't the point. I think there's a huge misconception that 3S is the only SF3 game. Everyone mentions every other SF game like EX, Alpha 1, 2, 3, and in the same breath just say "3S."
Throw pressure isn't a real 50/50 in SF6 because it's hard to punish both backdash and delay tech with the same option (& I think it's basically impossible midscreen), so as the defender you basically always have three option groups ("just block" or delay button which loses to throw, backdash/instant air move/jump cancel spd which loses to meaty, and throw tech/invul move which loses to shimmy). You can technically do an auto shimmy timing in the corner that catches backdash and delay tech, but generally people don't do it because it loses to jump badly, so if the opponent jumps forward they're out of the corner either way (although they eat a dp if you throw) so long term the better risk/reward is to cycle between throw/shimmy/meaty button, meaning to get out of the corner the defender has to risk a dp, or block/tech your options and then walk out. (auto shimmy also tends to do less damage than a reaction shimmy, and can lose badly to wakeup delay button). A lot of players, especially mid level (as in, below 1500MR) players never backdash on wakeup though (I rarely do it) because of the way other low level players like doing one jab into throw, and because "doing a meaty into a combo" is such a foundational tool to get through the lower ranks where a lot of players like to just mash buttons on wakeup, while doing a proper reaction shimmy takes a decent amount of practice for a new player (I don't think a single coach in the Sajam Slam tried to teach a new player how to reaction shimmy, but they were trying to teach them tight meaties), and if you never backdash or jump on wakeup, yeah, it's a 50/50. I guess people just use "50/50" to mean "real mixup" not "mixup where you only have two meaningful option groups with a 50% chance of being right", but that seems like a fucking stupid definition to me.
"street fighter 6 needs a chaos or nago" look bro just because strive has terminal illnesses doesn't mean you need to try to spread em. People complain about sf6 sometimes because there is always something to complain about but it's honestly one of the most balanced FGs ever released. Plus content creators need something to complain about because they can't just upload 100s of videos saying "this game is pretty good imo"
I've never had an issue with Nago,but but hc actually felt like he broke rules and gutted the tournament experience for months, shooting you when he whiffed and you tried to wiff punish was a comical experience
3:11 this mindset is dumb because it mistakes character popularity with character viability Unless akuma gets nurfed into being a low tier, people WILL play him, because he’s AKUMA!, and AKUMA is one of the franchise’s most cherished characters
Modern fighting game players don't know what the golden mean of balance is. Its not about making every character show equally in top 8s, but for weak characters to be able to actually win in a fair fight. Old FGs had almost unwinnable match ups, a character was bound to always lose
Six. I know Duc Do runs Spiral on his team, and a lot of very good players run Iron Man because he will fucking end your team, not to mention one very big factor of the game being the dozen or so really good assist characters that can bring a game plan together.
Strong universal system mechanics, while appealing to newcomers since they don't have to learn as much about matchups or character specific tech, often leads to faster burnout and less experimentation/diverse playstyles, both in terms of how a character is played and designed. What good is zoning when anyone can spend a bit of meter to get in? Why make a rushdown fighter or mix monster when that can be accomplished by most of the cast? By strengthening these core systems they are de facto weakening characters. One could argue that this is what allows the devs to more easily balance the game, since so much is already dampened by these systems.
5:35 Tell me about it... SF6 players act like Bison and Akuma are pay 2 win characters who represent this unwinnable monstrosity when their winrate is like 54% ish or something. They would melt into a liquid salt if they ever faced day 1 Kokonoe. lmao
This probably wont happen, but i would like an analysis like this, but for GBVS:Rising. Lots of people calling the game, "bad" "broken" "unbalanced" i would love LK's take on that front.
MVC2 has bad "balance" (especially if you're measuring as a percentage of the cast) but arguably the largest "variety in viable gameplay styles" of any fighting game ever made. At the tournament-winning level, there is some of the most hardcore zoning/keepaway of any game ever, insane rushdown, crazy runaway, and complete lockdown trapping. And part of why this exists is because because the same "6 characters" (it's more like 11 characters in tournament-winning teams but w/e) have significantly different playstyles depending on the team/assist composition.
SF6 for tournaments is like a craps table. The group of people cheering on the one rolling are the viewers. The Dealer, who has seen it all before and knows what this game really is, and whose enthusiams may be forced are the commentators. The one rolling the dice are the players.
If you go 0-5 and then 5-0 and you didn't change anything, maybe your opponent is the one playing bad this time right? I don't think I can beat anybody that beat me 5-0 if I don't at least adapt or lab a little
A player at Tokido's level is always labbing is the thing, but we're all human. He's eventually going to guess wrong except now that he's guessed wrong once, he has fewer options for recourse to try to turn the game around in his favor. He's not even saying 'someone of lesser skill than me' either; he's likely talking about people at his skill level. What he's really saying is that it feels like personal player skill and decision making is less important because the decisions you can even make are also limited. A game can still technically be 100% deterministic while having the feeling of 'randomness' because of this. It's why option selects, while mechanically kind of bullshit to think about, are actually healthy tools to have in a game since they help avoid a lot of these exact problems. No one's going to say anime games have too many defensive options, and yet, those games tend to have a lot of defensive option selects. It's just how volatile the game is and how win/loss is often determined by a single guess as soon as someone presses a button. It technically takes multiple wrong guesses to actually lose, but the first wrong guess stacks the deck massively against you since the defensive options in SF6 are massively limited in comparison to how easy it is to just bypass them as the offensive player. It's weird. SF6 is actually incredibly similar to DNF Duel in that particular regard. DNF Duel is another game with absolutely awful defensive options with the same sort of 'first touch massively skews the game in your favor' issue. DNF Duel has actual TODs, but even without them, the same principle applies for almost the same reasons. It's just a more extreme example.
I love that clip of Noah getting throw looped to death. That was so hype watching that live. I feel like without the context of the full set, it can be boring though. Just seeing this clip, you miss out on seeing Noah try to tech every single throw and getting shimmied and blown up for it. Once you see him get looped, you realize “oh shit, NL is in his head and he’s scared to tech or do anything” and it’s rad seeing that
Yes. Those of us that was actually there remember all the complaints about how fighting games are getting Boring and are to defensive. How what they need to do is buff all characters and less nerfs.... less running away more actually playing the game. Ect. Well..well.. you reap what you sow. Now in tekken 8 half the community is crying and in sf6 come to find out. Maybe having to play a little nooch wasn't so bad, lmao. The fgc never knows wtf it wants lol.
TBF, the complaints about SF6 are much smaller compared to Tekken 8. People are saying the Tekken 8 as a whole is like SF5, while the complaints about SF6 aren't that hard to theoretically improve
I feel like they're 2 different groups of people though, most sf players like playing neutral and zoning, being defensive, 2 guiles throwing boom over and over lol. I understand people wanting it to be more exciting than that. It needs to be somewhere in the middle tbh, you're right it's gone too far the other way.
I would say in general people have no idea what they want. Before they complained that games are too defensive, and now they don't like the aggressiveness and prefer "the good old days". Before they complained that games are too complicated , and now they don't like the fact that they are "simpler" and prefer "the good old days". They complained about the absence of guest characters, and now that don't like it because "it ruins the purity" and prefer "the good old days" Basically the usual: "old good, new bad until new because old then it becomes good and newer bad"
@@remylebeau34High level players want playing neutral and zoning etc because there’s more skill expression While casual to lower level players like rush down/ aggressive because you don’t have to think as much and easier to play. There should be a good mix like you said but often a fighting game leans one way more than another depending if they want to be a casual fighting game or a competitive fighting game.
What broski said PLUS, not every character has a dp, and not every character has a cancellable 2mp/mk, and it feels like a waste of time to play a character without those two things unless they buff drive reversal.
Reminds me of DBFZ Season 2 where abusing system mechanics made it so that certain characters became completely unviable to even see play. Never feels good 😢
I don't think this is true at all. AKI doesnt and is definitely strong so its very clear that those are not needed to be a good or rewarding character. Same with Gief, (and to a lesser extent) JP and Guile who both lack a cancellable cr.mk. The fact is most of the characters in this game have cancellable cr.mk and it IS a good tool to have but it is by no means required to be a good character. Id also point out that Jamie has an EX DP and a cancellable cr.mk but is one of if not the worst character in the game. I'd watch Broski's latest video on what makes SF6 characters strong to know more.
5:18 sf6 seems to be the only game ever where the undisputed top 1 character in the game is only the 10th most popular character in tournament. either the game is balanced or scrubs are lying about who the best characters are.
The game is balanced and I don’t know who said Rashid is undisputed top 1 but the reason you see him less is simply that he’s harder to get reward out of without level 2 but you can see that he has won the most cpt ww events out of any character
Felt man, I got the fighter pass not knowing how it basically wasn't super worth it, but I realized it gave me one of the darkstalkers games, and I wish I was around to appreciate the games
16:38 I think not anymore in the current era of fighting game. Words and news pass around so fast it’s hard for something to miss out that’s as important as “anti meta”
You're the best at this I like watching sf6 and people seem to perform consistently from here. Idk how consistent old games were... And watching high level it doesn't feel like just drive rush into guess over and over. I wouldn't watch that. It doesn't feel like that to play at my level either. I wouldn't play that.
The game is fun to watch and I enjoy it a lot. I do wish that people would realize that the meta doesn’t affect 98% of the players though in terms of character balance.
I think this video and overall temperament of a strive main looking at our game from his perspective is important as fuck. A lot of yall SF6ers that are mental booming rn need to look within… they gave us a good ass game
there's no chance they let healing cook, I'll be more surprised if they find a way to make it not unusable garbage, which it was in third strike. I am sure her footsies will be insane
@@EarthLordCJ IDK. I think healing would be more powerful because drive gauge is always coming back. Healing, if it's good, allows for more drive gauge automatically by making matches longer. I don't know if they would do something like that, either. I may be mistaken but I don't think there are any characters that directly manipulate the drive gauge in a way like that.
Being obsessed with teir list and balance is a waste of time in sf6. Those who do are usually bad. The low tiers like Kimberly actually has a huge playerbase in legend rank, Honda is only weak because of PP, Jamie is arguably the best character in the game if he gets 4 drinks. You get my point. Imagine if this is Guilty. You cannot expect me to believe Faust or Anji has the same chances as these low tiers in sf does. The difference between low tiere and high tiers is not that far in SF. The top tiers just lack flaws. Low tiers, you just have to be weary of their built in weaknesses to balance out their really powerful nieche.
Meter efficient damage is a big reason why the top tiers are so good imo. Take Akuma and Bison. Their optimal combos use OD moves, so they never get the meter penalty from drive rush. So they'll spend 2 bars of drive, but after they finish the combo they've built back another bar.
Oddly, i feel guile is the best contender for anti-meta in 6, He can ''Hypothetically'' still play decently (like parts of his game plan stay intact) withought that much emphasis on Drive, that being said, he definetely uses it well to.
I'm so glad they added deflect shield to Strive. I can just react to Garuda impact, or Gio's enhanced drill, or Sol's fafnir, or any slow guard crush moves and just push them away. No mas
my idea to tone down drive rush would be to remove the +4 frames of advantage you get when the attack is blocked, and give throws maybe 3 or 4 more frames of recovery on wiff because its very disheartening to guess right on jumping out of a throw loop just to eat a DP
Feels like once you play a game for long enough you just start to hate parts of what it is even though you secretly know that it shouldnt actually change in any meaningful way or else what fun you do still have with it may also go away.
Hey, in reference to do you think commentators like to watch, I'm a comm for my local and I really do love to WATCH SF6. I enjoy watching way more than playing due to the feeling of helplessness I feel in certain situations myself, seeing other people in them makes me feel validated or excited to see them prove me wrong. It's definitely a case of "sucks to be you".
sf6 is trying to be the first perfectly balanced game while still having a couple unique things for most characters imo. seems like a very difficult thing to do
The best SF is obviously SF4 where the meta characters stuck you in a 4 way vortex after a single clean knockdown. These 50/50s that often require resources to capitalize on are simply too powerful, free 25/25/25/25s are balanced.
Hmm, for the most part i stopped watching tournament footage in general across the board. At this point i only have them on for background noise. If im watching, and ive been like this since ggac and ssf4, im trying to learn something or copy certain situations or combos.
I think inconsistent tournament winners is a biproduct of information availability, the average skill of competitive gamers has went up astronomically since lets say sf third strike era, where you couldnt google fucked up twitter setups, youd just run into them at evo randomly and get annihilated, now like day 2 everyone has labbed tech available online, with exceptions for characters like Zato, or other very specialist characters that take more time to develop, theres plenty of examples, im just more guilty gear focused as a player so i dont wanna provide half baked examples
6:50 CPT format is prob fine in terms of finding the best competition but its so ass as a viewer, personally i cant make myself care abt an online tournament. also sad that ppl who auto qualify from winning a cpt major dont have incentive to compete in cpt events for the rest of the season, so if i like watching that player i wont be able to watch them until capcom cup
TLDR compared to tag hyper fighters and anime fighters, street fighter is fairly tame. Tale as old as time. I’m surprised that tekken is more popular than virtual fighter.
@@brocksteele7475 lol no, eat 60% damage. SF6 is a volatile game because every defensive decision is essentially the wrong decision. Take the red pill of getting thrown 5 times for half your life or the blue pill attempt of one tech which gets you punish counter comboed for half your life. Or you can take both pills of being thrown 3 times, then attempt a tech which gets you TOD.
Gonna be honest here, don't see the big issue with the Luke/Luke clip. A player was put into a corner and lost 5 interactions, eating ~2 good combos worth of damage. That's normal. I've done that with Giovanna, Nagoriyuki, Sol, Elphelt, pretty much everyone because that's what happens when you get cornered. I could see the annoyance with getting cornered so quickly, but after that it's standard gameplay. The strike/throw character strike/threw someone. What am I missing?
What do people think about having Backdash invincibility in Sf6? Maybe only certain characters, or certain moves still beat it. It would give reasons for option selects or different normals and meaties to be used, would make throw loops less powerful.
@@guitaroach some characters don't have invincible reversals, so it would add some variety and give them a better chance to defend themselves, it still wouldn't be quite as good as a Dp since it would still lose to well timed normals and option selects or meaty jabs.
@@guitaroach I mean the Backdash would have invincibility at the start but a meaty attack with enough active frames will still catch it. Basically like how it works in any other game that has Backdash invincibility.
@@remylebeau34 if youre delaying your attack to hit a backdash, thats not a meaty. An attack with enough active frames to hit meaty AND backdash recovery is not typical
The Tokido tweet is nonsense. A matchup with a big skill component in its outcome is extremely unlikely to have a 5-0 streak one day and a 0-5 one the next (because you heavily expect the guy who went 5-0 in the first 5 to do at least pretty good in the next 5). BUT a matchup that's literally just a coin flip because there's no skill involved or the players are absolutely perfectly matched in skill is also incredibly unlikely to go 5-0 then 0-5. It's like .2%. My guess is he is either heavily exaggerating for effect, or this happened to him like three times total in hundreds of hours of play but those events really stuck in his mind.
Watching SF6 players complain about balance is like watching a rich person be depressed all the time yeah we are all human but like… it’s hard to take you seriously lol
yep mvc2 is 6 chars indeed, the other 48 are punching bags. And omg finally someone said it, why do you get drive rush at the start for free....whyyyyy...whyyyy
Regarding Marvel 2. They're not far off but only 6 characters is a little hyperbole. It's more like 10 characters. :P However, only 4 teams is way off. Order matters, assist choices matter. You basically MUST have storm/sent on your team but there's still probably close to 20 ish really strong team compositions.
Not weird its just preference. My opinion is opposite of yours but I don't say sf6 is bad. For me drive makes labbing feel weaker bc all matches boil down to abusing the unreactable situations. I can force them too and win but it still feels like we're playing largely around drive more than the characters matchups
@@XxFinalFlashXx1 recent stream he struggle with mid diamond player and get mad , in that range ppl randomly jumping and throwing random di to cover whiff move. the lack of footsies is the thing he annoying a lot.
The thing is, the character balance is good, but I can't help but refer to the game as " Slot Fighter 6." I think the general design choices and game system balancing choices have been .... not enough and terrible. Sf6 parry is probably the worst design decision ever introduced into a fighting game in the history of the genre and I've seen most of the timeline.
It's really close to needing a SF5 like overhaul....the mechanics make everything 50/50. Sure you have the top players getting semi consistent results but even that is all over the place in comparison to previous games.
@@beam5655 exactly, heck this is the only time punk has won a major. The same players are always in top 8, how can it be that way if the game was always 50/50? @corneliusrawness is talking with absolutely zero knowledge
"Interesting" is never a good word to describe a fighting game you're playing. It means there's a level of variability that's unpredictable, typically in a negative way. The only reason they use the term "interesting" is because the variability can sway into a less negative area, but overall the experience is not one you appreciate repeating. HNK is fucking godlike and entertaining every single time I watch it. Can't say the same for SF6, and that feels weird to me.
we want 32,64 whatever of the best players in the world at cpt. its kl to see the best players in certain regions but the whole 'major' (apart from evo) is out of the window. to only have a 2 Japanese players in a 64 of the best in the world tournament is criminal. no story lines built throughout the year. i could go. i barely watch any of it anymore tbh.
SF6 is a volatile game and it is what makes it interesting. Modern fighting games are sometimes overly designed and devolve into the same stuff works every time. SF6 throws that out and says nothing you do is truly ever "the best" there are so many different options at any moment and there is typically more than 1 answer to a problem which makes it that you can't predict the answer 100% of the time, thus becoming volatile
Go support Broski and watch the original (and more vids on SF6) here - ua-cam.com/video/jXcifv57FbQ/v-deo.html
SF6 is in a lot of ways similar to SF 3rd Strike, minus the balance problems of that game (never got a Turbo/Super/Ultimate edition which could help, lots of trash characters/supers in this game).
These games both have a core mechanic (Drive Impact vs Parry, SF6 also has parry but its far weaker than 3rd Strike's) that dominate the competitive scene. Both systems essentially involve stealing the turn of the opponent. That also means a couple of things: First there will be a lot of mindgames with these systems (which also means that hardcore fans of those systems will continue to play them long after their cycle ends), second the skill ceiling is a lot higher (which in turn makes any player skill discrepancy more pronounced), thirdly the matches will be explosive at any level, especially if you get read (check recent 1mil SF6 tourney, many blowouts & perfect victories) & lastly the tier lists evolve around the core system, more so than most games (meaning who abuses the system better, meaning who counters that system, meaning who has more options to get in or get out).
you know the discussion is getting serious when LK brings out the 240p footage of a game from 2004.
the classic LK special
Normal FGC player: a tame take!
LK: have you seen how broken Kohaku used to be DIFFERENT COLORED BOMBS and/or Tagar in Chrono phantasma is a useless mess of a character.
But he always does that lol
@@LiteralmenteFadul the discussion always gets serious
LK’s ult
Jokes on everybody else, I'm not good enough for the meta to matter. I'm having a good time losing to every character.
You're truly the winner. The key to enjoying any remotely competitive environment is to be capable of having fun while losing.
You’re telling me you play the game for fun? That’s crazy! There’s no way that’s the intended purpose of video games.
For me, it really depends on the game and the character I’m fighting with/in. There are some annoying ass game and character mechanics.
For example… In GGST; I love fighting Potemkin, but hate Bridget with a passion.
Can we crowdfund an air conditioner for lord knight 😢
off topic but that grey hair is cool af bro
The first thing I ever noticed about LK. Fucking cool
Guts
Two men looking at the same graph.
LK: "Does this mean that almost every character has won a CPT event, and every character has been in Top 8?!"
Broski: "It doesn't look very balanced"
I’ve seen more characters variety winning tournament in sf6 than any other fighting game atm. That’s good example of balance casts
I feel like everyone is missing the thing that makes throw loops so good outside of it being a 50/50, it’s that your typical answers to throws stop working. In most fighters you read a throw and backdash or jump. In SF6 you get anti-aired for jumping throws, and you can’t backdash a strike. Strive doesn’t have throw loops as an oppressive tool because-
1: You have throw protection so you can’t be meaty thrown.
2: Backdashes have throw AND strike invuln, covering 2 options.
3, arguably the biggest: you can ACTUALLY punish a throw either way.
You cannot have the SF6 throw loop discourse without the context of how stupidly safe a normal throw in this game IS when done meaty. You cant jump because they can anti-air you on WHIFF, they’re safe on whiff if you backdash, every single throw setup is also a strike mixup, and you gain drive very quickly on offense if you’re not using it. At 20:35 you see NL at just over 2 bars. by the third 50/50, he’s at 3 bars. By the time Noah DPs, he’s down on drive despite not losing ANY drive up until he reversals out. And even then, NL can just. do it again from a true blockstring. And during every single one, he could’ve just done neutral jump jHP and exploded noah for trying to tech. And if it started from a punish counter throw? You can do it MIDSCREEN.
All that said, this is still my favorite game because i like to gamba and it makes parry a not so free option to press at all times.
I agree with most stuff you said, besides the last line really. I actually hate how much I "Feel" like I'm gambling in sf6. Yes fighting games are about reads, which is effectively saying "guessing" and reactions etc, but you're not reacting to a throw loop lol. Once someone is cornered, either way, you may as well start flipping coins, and rolling d20s for chance of success.
It feels hard to address to "parry is free" without some arbitrary restriction, but my take is not allowing someone to parry again off of punish counter throws. Since the game barely seems to care about defensive options, may as well just go the full way.
I think in some ways you're correct however this is very clearly coming from a more anime POV. Almost everything you said here was true about SFV, but SFV did not have nearly the same throw loop problem. In SFV it was solved in two ways, one which combats what you talked about more directly by giving players a metered invincible backdash with v shift, and the other is more subtle. They made sure that every character was able to get a meaty normal after a throw in the corner but made sure every character was -2 after dashing and could not walk in in time for a meaty throw. I personally REALLY like this solution as it still lets you get some pressure but allows reversal light normals and some mediums to beat an attempted throw loop.
If it were up to me, to balance throw loops in SF6 I would just do what they did in V. (While maybe allowing characters to be 0 or -1 after dash or make a "drive shift" weaker than v shift was in some way as they do clearly want 6 to be more offense heavy than V was.)
EDIT: Another reason I really think this would work well is it actually meshes really well with parry. You'd think making throws whiff on forward throw walk in would make parrying on wakeup ridiculously strong BUT in SF6 attempting a parry makes your throw hurtbox wider meaning throw loops COULD work after a walk in IF the opponent attempted a parry. The fact that the SFV throw design works so well with 6 systems makes me really curious as to why it was changed in 6.
strive does functionally have throw loops with meaty GC
Also quite a few characters can get what is essentially guaranteed throws at high level with certain setups. Got poison on you? Better eat the next three throws because if you throw tech and are wrong, you will die instantly. Bison has bomb on you? You're eating the next throw because you will take 78% if he hits you. Rashid has level 2? You're eating the next several throws and mixups.
You CAN get out of these, but the risk reward is so skewed that a lot of top players choose not to do anything. Which is why you see people just eat 10 throws in a row.
Sf4 had invincible backdash and it was vortex hell. Whining about throw loops is scrubby.
Dhalsim would be the "Off Meta" pick for this game. He's largely considered low tier because he's not "playing SF6." However, he has good matchups against several of the characters with the most tilted MU spreads (JP, Guile, a few others. )
Well JP is playing MK so idk
The main problem i think is low level players confusing their own lack of skill for poor balance, and then pro players retweet their shitty takes and create discourse over nothing
Lord Knight literally got gaslighted into playing May because only scrubs lose to her.
@@mattb6616 not sure if trolling or not but this statement is hilarious
@@jacobpantin7803only half trolling. Strive is the only fighting game in history where everyone agrees a character who literally never wins tournaments is top tier. No one pretends Honda is secretly top tier in sf6 off his buckler data looking good, because Honda doesn't win anything.
Meanwhile in Strive, May is universally considered a top 3 character. But Slash is the only person who takes her to top 8s, and then he still loses. She's got about as many active players now as Ram, or Nago, or ABA, or even Bridget, but she never places in brackets the way these other characters do. Leo is one of the most unpopular and least picked characters, but he does everything May does but better, so there are two Leos in every top 8.
Like I don't know why this is controversial. No other game's fanbase has completely arbitrary criteria like this for who's top tier. People in sf6 complain about bison and akuma and rashid because they win everything and there are 4 great players of every one of these guys per bracket. People in Tekken complain about Dragunov because every tournament you'll see in the last year has Dragunov vs Dragunov grand finals. People in Strive complain about May because they got counter poked once 2 years ago and still won the match but that button was CHEAP! Like lil bro calm down you fought one May in a tournament bracket in the last 700 days.
@@mattb6616 May being consistent top 3 is the biggest lie the top tier users invented to mess with you. I suppose it is to make the top tiers "more varied", therefore giving the idea that there are other big fish around, taking attention away from their mains.
"Bro but dolphin RPS" yeah sol can do that same shit with a normal, but with better moves, reversals, strikethrow, etc
And thats one of the reasons i ditched strive. Stupidest community i ever had the displeasure to play with!
@@mattb6616m. Raven won little, sheik was considerrd top tier for 2 decades in which she won nothing, dejay was considered top tier while not winning shit in early sf6
gamers of all kinds say they want balance, but all the games that people play for years and years after release are the absolute degenerate batshit ones/poorly balanced ones. mvc2, umvc3, third strike, etc. tabletop rpg players also say they want balanced classes/playbooks, but really people want fun and unique options. i'm really interested to see which modern fighters end up being played by a dedicated community long term. anyone have predictions about that?
Honestly it depends about the balance. That said 3rd strike never had the numbers, essentially it got revived by streamers. Sf 3rd Strike barely had 170,000 copies, it got steamrolled by the Alpha series (total 3,530,000 sales) & especially SF Alpha 3 (1,590,000 copies). SF Alpha series even got its anthology back in 2006, 8 years later after SFA3.
Very difficult to gauge the impact of the Anniversary collection (3,100,000 copies) since it has all SF games.
About your question, SF6 will be the game that will end up played by a dedicated community that wont move on, because Drive Impact is very similar to SF 3 III Strike's Parry. Like it didnt matter in 3rd Strike (which was very unbalanced with tons of trash supers and outright bad characters). Why? Because the dedicated players will play the good characters and wont care about the rest (unless they are streamers and they do a video). Obviously there will be the few players that stick with the bad character just because. Because in the end, for the dedicated players its all about the skill ceiling & the mind games.
@@GeoGyf
Why do you consistently bring up the Alpha SERIES but consistently neglect SF3 SERIES, instead singling out Third Strike? That's a common thing people do, forgetting or not realizing that SF3: New Generation, and 2nd Impact exist.
Now that's still not gonna change overall series sales figures, but it's a big peeve people don'n realize 3S ain't the only SF3 game... especially egregious when they realize Alpha 1 and Alpha 2 exist, which are also comparatively less popular games in their series.
Counterpoint: FGs didn't become well-balanced on/near release until very recently, not even 10 years. Like, yeah, all the old games people continue to play until today aren't well-balanced, but none of the old games that people _don't_ play are balanced well either. Having every single character be viable wasn't really an expectation back then (and frankly, wasn't possible until patching), so it's a moot point.
@@Un1234l i mean, unlike the alpha series, especially alpha 2 which has a pretty good community left, SF3: NG and 2I are rarely played today, even in comparison to 3rd Strike.
@@silverreddaniel7397
I understand that but that wasn't the point. I think there's a huge misconception that 3S is the only SF3 game. Everyone mentions every other SF game like EX, Alpha 1, 2, 3, and in the same breath just say "3S."
Throw pressure isn't a real 50/50 in SF6 because it's hard to punish both backdash and delay tech with the same option (& I think it's basically impossible midscreen), so as the defender you basically always have three option groups ("just block" or delay button which loses to throw, backdash/instant air move/jump cancel spd which loses to meaty, and throw tech/invul move which loses to shimmy).
You can technically do an auto shimmy timing in the corner that catches backdash and delay tech, but generally people don't do it because it loses to jump badly, so if the opponent jumps forward they're out of the corner either way (although they eat a dp if you throw) so long term the better risk/reward is to cycle between throw/shimmy/meaty button, meaning to get out of the corner the defender has to risk a dp, or block/tech your options and then walk out.
(auto shimmy also tends to do less damage than a reaction shimmy, and can lose badly to wakeup delay button).
A lot of players, especially mid level (as in, below 1500MR) players never backdash on wakeup though (I rarely do it) because of the way other low level players like doing one jab into throw, and because "doing a meaty into a combo" is such a foundational tool to get through the lower ranks where a lot of players like to just mash buttons on wakeup, while doing a proper reaction shimmy takes a decent amount of practice for a new player (I don't think a single coach in the Sajam Slam tried to teach a new player how to reaction shimmy, but they were trying to teach them tight meaties), and if you never backdash or jump on wakeup, yeah, it's a 50/50.
I guess people just use "50/50" to mean "real mixup" not "mixup where you only have two meaningful option groups with a 50% chance of being right", but that seems like a fucking stupid definition to me.
"street fighter 6 needs a chaos or nago" look bro just because strive has terminal illnesses doesn't mean you need to try to spread em. People complain about sf6 sometimes because there is always something to complain about but it's honestly one of the most balanced FGs ever released. Plus content creators need something to complain about because they can't just upload 100s of videos saying "this game is pretty good imo"
💀💀😂
I've never had an issue with Nago,but but hc actually felt like he broke rules and gutted the tournament experience for months, shooting you when he whiffed and you tried to wiff punish was a comical experience
as a Ramlethal player i don't get all the issues people had with HC and Nago 😁
3:11 this mindset is dumb because it mistakes character popularity with character viability
Unless akuma gets nurfed into being a low tier, people WILL play him, because he’s AKUMA!, and AKUMA is one of the franchise’s most cherished characters
I don't know how everyone else is doing but I think Aki is fun to play
Btw, how do I stop her from doing the jump with multiple stabs? I play Dee Jay and Manon and my usual anti-airs don’t beat it consistently.
Could ask all Terry players rn if they're ok or not.
ima go withhhhhh
bustah wulf
I’m GREAT……. Seriously though Terry is so fun even if he was mid (he’s not) I’d still play him
Modern fighting game players don't know what the golden mean of balance is. Its not about making every character show equally in top 8s, but for weak characters to be able to actually win in a fair fight. Old FGs had almost unwinnable match ups, a character was bound to always lose
i don't know who told you that there are 6 characters in mvc2 but they are wrong
you actually only have 4 characters 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Six. I know Duc Do runs Spiral on his team, and a lot of very good players run Iron Man because he will fucking end your team, not to mention one very big factor of the game being the dozen or so really good assist characters that can bring a game plan together.
SF players will be like "yooo this setplay vortex is insane", and its like a +3 meaty jab into strike/throw
Someone didn't play sf4!
Strong universal system mechanics, while appealing to newcomers since they don't have to learn as much about matchups or character specific tech, often leads to faster burnout and less experimentation/diverse playstyles, both in terms of how a character is played and designed. What good is zoning when anyone can spend a bit of meter to get in? Why make a rushdown fighter or mix monster when that can be accomplished by most of the cast? By strengthening these core systems they are de facto weakening characters. One could argue that this is what allows the devs to more easily balance the game, since so much is already dampened by these systems.
Idk man guile the zones is perfectly high tier in this game, zoning is still pretty strong, as are dedicated rushdown characters like rashid and bison
5:35 Tell me about it... SF6 players act like Bison and Akuma are pay 2 win characters who represent this unwinnable monstrosity when their winrate is like 54% ish or something. They would melt into a liquid salt if they ever faced day 1 Kokonoe. lmao
Bison is a scrub killer he has huge flaws that bison players have to overcome to beat good players
watching kokonoe shenanigans in tournaments back in highschool convinced me I wasn't built for the cold streets of anime
SF6 players have no idea how good they have it.
This probably wont happen, but i would like an analysis like this, but for GBVS:Rising. Lots of people calling the game, "bad" "broken" "unbalanced" i would love LK's take on that front.
MVC2 has bad "balance" (especially if you're measuring as a percentage of the cast) but arguably the largest "variety in viable gameplay styles" of any fighting game ever made. At the tournament-winning level, there is some of the most hardcore zoning/keepaway of any game ever, insane rushdown, crazy runaway, and complete lockdown trapping. And part of why this exists is because because the same "6 characters" (it's more like 11 characters in tournament-winning teams but w/e) have significantly different playstyles depending on the team/assist composition.
SF6 for tournaments is like a craps table.
The group of people cheering on the one rolling are the viewers.
The Dealer, who has seen it all before and knows what this game really is, and whose enthusiams may be forced are the commentators.
The one rolling the dice are the players.
If you go 0-5 and then 5-0 and you didn't change anything, maybe your opponent is the one playing bad this time right? I don't think I can beat anybody that beat me 5-0 if I don't at least adapt or lab a little
A player at Tokido's level is always labbing is the thing, but we're all human. He's eventually going to guess wrong except now that he's guessed wrong once, he has fewer options for recourse to try to turn the game around in his favor. He's not even saying 'someone of lesser skill than me' either; he's likely talking about people at his skill level. What he's really saying is that it feels like personal player skill and decision making is less important because the decisions you can even make are also limited. A game can still technically be 100% deterministic while having the feeling of 'randomness' because of this. It's why option selects, while mechanically kind of bullshit to think about, are actually healthy tools to have in a game since they help avoid a lot of these exact problems. No one's going to say anime games have too many defensive options, and yet, those games tend to have a lot of defensive option selects.
It's just how volatile the game is and how win/loss is often determined by a single guess as soon as someone presses a button. It technically takes multiple wrong guesses to actually lose, but the first wrong guess stacks the deck massively against you since the defensive options in SF6 are massively limited in comparison to how easy it is to just bypass them as the offensive player.
It's weird. SF6 is actually incredibly similar to DNF Duel in that particular regard. DNF Duel is another game with absolutely awful defensive options with the same sort of 'first touch massively skews the game in your favor' issue. DNF Duel has actual TODs, but even without them, the same principle applies for almost the same reasons. It's just a more extreme example.
I love that clip of Noah getting throw looped to death. That was so hype watching that live. I feel like without the context of the full set, it can be boring though. Just seeing this clip, you miss out on seeing Noah try to tech every single throw and getting shimmied and blown up for it. Once you see him get looped, you realize “oh shit, NL is in his head and he’s scared to tech or do anything” and it’s rad seeing that
Yes. Those of us that was actually there remember all the complaints about how fighting games are getting Boring and are to defensive. How what they need to do is buff all characters and less nerfs.... less running away more actually playing the game. Ect.
Well..well.. you reap what you sow. Now in tekken 8 half the community is crying and in sf6 come to find out. Maybe having to play a little nooch wasn't so bad, lmao.
The fgc never knows wtf it wants lol.
TBF, the complaints about SF6 are much smaller compared to Tekken 8. People are saying the Tekken 8 as a whole is like SF5, while the complaints about SF6 aren't that hard to theoretically improve
I feel like they're 2 different groups of people though, most sf players like playing neutral and zoning, being defensive, 2 guiles throwing boom over and over lol. I understand people wanting it to be more exciting than that. It needs to be somewhere in the middle tbh, you're right it's gone too far the other way.
@@vanjagalovic3621 yea a lot of people who play both t8 and sf6 will admit that sf6 is the overall better product.
I would say in general people have no idea what they want.
Before they complained that games are too defensive, and now they don't like the aggressiveness and prefer "the good old days".
Before they complained that games are too complicated , and now they don't like the fact that they are "simpler" and prefer "the good old days".
They complained about the absence of guest characters, and now that don't like it because "it ruins the purity" and prefer "the good old days"
Basically the usual: "old good, new bad until new because old then it becomes good and newer bad"
@@remylebeau34High level players want playing neutral and zoning etc because there’s more skill expression While casual to lower level players like rush down/ aggressive because you don’t have to think as much and easier to play. There should be a good mix like you said but often a fighting game leans one way more than another depending if they want to be a casual fighting game or a competitive fighting game.
What broski said PLUS, not every character has a dp, and not every character has a cancellable 2mp/mk, and it feels like a waste of time to play a character without those two things unless they buff drive reversal.
Reminds me of DBFZ Season 2 where abusing system mechanics made it so that certain characters became completely unviable to even see play. Never feels good 😢
I don't think this is true at all. AKI doesnt and is definitely strong so its very clear that those are not needed to be a good or rewarding character. Same with Gief, (and to a lesser extent) JP and Guile who both lack a cancellable cr.mk. The fact is most of the characters in this game have cancellable cr.mk and it IS a good tool to have but it is by no means required to be a good character. Id also point out that Jamie has an EX DP and a cancellable cr.mk but is one of if not the worst character in the game. I'd watch Broski's latest video on what makes SF6 characters strong to know more.
What tokido said is most people’s experience
5:18 sf6 seems to be the only game ever where the undisputed top 1 character in the game is only the 10th most popular character in tournament. either the game is balanced or scrubs are lying about who the best characters are.
The game is balanced and I don’t know who said Rashid is undisputed top 1 but the reason you see him less is simply that he’s harder to get reward out of without level 2
but you can see that he has won the most cpt ww events out of any character
0:29 bro i miss vampire savior ;_;
Felt man, I got the fighter pass not knowing how it basically wasn't super worth it, but I realized it gave me one of the darkstalkers games, and I wish I was around to appreciate the games
16:38 I think not anymore in the current era of fighting game. Words and news pass around so fast it’s hard for something to miss out that’s as important as “anti meta”
I love when LK checks in on a fighting game that’s not anime fighter because it’s like a glimpse into a different universe man
People getting mad because they can't win does not mean the game has a balance problem.
You're the best at this
I like watching sf6 and people seem to perform consistently from here. Idk how consistent old games were... And watching high level it doesn't feel like just drive rush into guess over and over. I wouldn't watch that. It doesn't feel like that to play at my level either. I wouldn't play that.
The game is fun to watch and I enjoy it a lot. I do wish that people would realize that the meta doesn’t affect 98% of the players though in terms of character balance.
I think this video and overall temperament of a strive main looking at our game from his perspective is important as fuck. A lot of yall SF6ers that are mental booming rn need to look within… they gave us a good ass game
LK cursing us with Elena being top tier in another Street Fighter game. Please no. I don't want to relive USF4.
there's no chance they let healing cook, I'll be more surprised if they find a way to make it not unusable garbage, which it was in third strike. I am sure her footsies will be insane
Granted; now Elena’s healing ability is replaced with unlimited Drive meter for 30 seconds on the clock.
@@EarthLordCJ IDK. I think healing would be more powerful because drive gauge is always coming back. Healing, if it's good, allows for more drive gauge automatically by making matches longer. I don't know if they would do something like that, either. I may be mistaken but I don't think there are any characters that directly manipulate the drive gauge in a way like that.
@@zakk219 Unlimited Drive = a period of everything being +ob and safe, though...
@@theuzi8516 True. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what they decide to do.
probably doing better than strive players tbh
Not at all
Found who didn't watch the new Technicals vids
I don't watch slop 🎉 @@r0q
Depends if you like slayer or not.
They got their cheeks taken by a smash player so yeah I'd imagine so.
Being obsessed with teir list and balance is a waste of time in sf6. Those who do are usually bad. The low tiers like Kimberly actually has a huge playerbase in legend rank, Honda is only weak because of PP, Jamie is arguably the best character in the game if he gets 4 drinks. You get my point.
Imagine if this is Guilty. You cannot expect me to believe Faust or Anji has the same chances as these low tiers in sf does. The difference between low tiere and high tiers is not that far in SF. The top tiers just lack flaws. Low tiers, you just have to be weary of their built in weaknesses to balance out their really powerful nieche.
Always cool to hear LK interact with sf. Excited to watch.
Are we strive players ok?!?
Yeah nah.
Meter efficient damage is a big reason why the top tiers are so good imo. Take Akuma and Bison. Their optimal combos use OD moves, so they never get the meter penalty from drive rush. So they'll spend 2 bars of drive, but after they finish the combo they've built back another bar.
Oddly, i feel guile is the best contender for anti-meta in 6, He can ''Hypothetically'' still play decently (like parts of his game plan stay intact) withought that much emphasis on Drive, that being said, he definetely uses it well to.
I'm so glad they added deflect shield to Strive. I can just react to Garuda impact, or Gio's enhanced drill, or Sol's fafnir, or any slow guard crush moves and just push them away. No mas
my idea to tone down drive rush would be to remove the +4 frames of advantage you get when the attack is blocked, and give throws maybe 3 or 4 more frames of recovery on wiff because its very disheartening to guess right on jumping out of a throw loop just to eat a DP
Feels like once you play a game for long enough you just start to hate parts of what it is even though you secretly know that it shouldnt actually change in any meaningful way or else what fun you do still have with it may also go away.
Not me labbing 3S Elena during that outro 👀
Elena Ditto in EVO grand finals would be GODLIKE! AND chat counting how many heals were in top 8.
Hey, in reference to do you think commentators like to watch, I'm a comm for my local and I really do love to WATCH SF6. I enjoy watching way more than playing due to the feeling of helplessness I feel in certain situations myself, seeing other people in them makes me feel validated or excited to see them prove me wrong. It's definitely a case of "sucks to be you".
Idk, but are Strive players doing okay?
They just complain about Slayer all day. Weak minded cretans.
no
@@williamingwerson4692 hey the music is fire af
@@HI-kb2cg it is ngl
honestly i'm pretty hopeful about the upcoming october patch!
sf6 is trying to be the first perfectly balanced game while still having a couple unique things for most characters imo. seems like a very difficult thing to do
The best SF is obviously SF4 where the meta characters stuck you in a 4 way vortex after a single clean knockdown. These 50/50s that often require resources to capitalize on are simply too powerful, free 25/25/25/25s are balanced.
Hmm, for the most part i stopped watching tournament footage in general across the board. At this point i only have them on for background noise.
If im watching, and ive been like this since ggac and ssf4, im trying to learn something or copy certain situations or combos.
“throw throw throw, walk up walk back” im the the blender😂 that’s how they suffer😂
I think inconsistent tournament winners is a biproduct of information availability, the average skill of competitive gamers has went up astronomically since lets say sf third strike era, where you couldnt google fucked up twitter setups, youd just run into them at evo randomly and get annihilated, now like day 2 everyone has labbed tech available online, with exceptions for characters like Zato, or other very specialist characters that take more time to develop, theres plenty of examples, im just more guilty gear focused as a player so i dont wanna provide half baked examples
6:50 CPT format is prob fine in terms of finding the best competition but its so ass as a viewer, personally i cant make myself care abt an online tournament. also sad that ppl who auto qualify from winning a cpt major dont have incentive to compete in cpt events for the rest of the season, so if i like watching that player i wont be able to watch them until capcom cup
TLDR compared to tag hyper fighters and anime fighters, street fighter is fairly tame. Tale as old as time. I’m surprised that tekken is more popular than virtual fighter.
Mvc2 has shit balance.
Not wrong.
Balance is overrated as a metric for competition and longevity.
Agreed. Balance is good, but as long as the top tier strategies are interesting then it can still be a good competitive game.
Im not very good at sf6 so i enjoy watching it cause i feel like i learn something new from every match
Just came here to say that LK's haircut is always 🔥 and remains as such
I was always worried about full EX at the beginning of the game. I think Ftak Fury will have issues as well.
5:38 who's gonna tell him?
Hell no! The game is not fun 😂. Until developers prioritize fun first it will never be fun.😊
I’ve always said we should do low tier only characters for modern games for sure.
5:32 of course GG balance sucks ass... they make zato bottom tier for 3 games in a row! And in strive he's bottom 1or2 for 400 days and counting
anyone know the track id around 6:00?
That's the secret, we were never ok
Broski’s video doesn’t bring up how parry and perfect parry can be answers to a lot of questions
lol no, get thrown.
@@HellecticMojo tech
@@brocksteele7475 lol no, eat 60% damage.
SF6 is a volatile game because every defensive decision is essentially the wrong decision.
Take the red pill of getting thrown 5 times for half your life or the blue pill attempt of one tech which gets you punish counter comboed for half your life.
Or you can take both pills of being thrown 3 times, then attempt a tech which gets you TOD.
Gonna be honest here, don't see the big issue with the Luke/Luke clip. A player was put into a corner and lost 5 interactions, eating ~2 good combos worth of damage. That's normal. I've done that with Giovanna, Nagoriyuki, Sol, Elphelt, pretty much everyone because that's what happens when you get cornered.
I could see the annoyance with getting cornered so quickly, but after that it's standard gameplay. The strike/throw character strike/threw someone. What am I missing?
I love sf6, and Elena being top tier menace would be the funniest timeline
What do people think about having Backdash invincibility in Sf6? Maybe only certain characters, or certain moves still beat it. It would give reasons for option selects or different normals and meaties to be used, would make throw loops less powerful.
What is the idea behind having certain characters or moves with theae properties? What makes that better/more intuitive?
@@guitaroach some characters don't have invincible reversals, so it would add some variety and give them a better chance to defend themselves, it still wouldn't be quite as good as a Dp since it would still lose to well timed normals and option selects or meaty jabs.
@@remylebeau34 its not an invincible backdash if you can still get hit meaty
@@guitaroach I mean the Backdash would have invincibility at the start but a meaty attack with enough active frames will still catch it. Basically like how it works in any other game that has Backdash invincibility.
@@remylebeau34 if youre delaying your attack to hit a backdash, thats not a meaty. An attack with enough active frames to hit meaty AND backdash recovery is not typical
Seven Elenas in top 8 would be the best outcome, easily.
The Tokido tweet is nonsense. A matchup with a big skill component in its outcome is extremely unlikely to have a 5-0 streak one day and a 0-5 one the next (because you heavily expect the guy who went 5-0 in the first 5 to do at least pretty good in the next 5). BUT a matchup that's literally just a coin flip because there's no skill involved or the players are absolutely perfectly matched in skill is also incredibly unlikely to go 5-0 then 0-5. It's like .2%. My guess is he is either heavily exaggerating for effect, or this happened to him like three times total in hundreds of hours of play but those events really stuck in his mind.
Watching SF6 players complain about balance is like watching a rich person be depressed all the time
yeah we are all human but like… it’s hard to take you seriously lol
yep mvc2 is 6 chars indeed, the other 48 are punching bags. And omg finally someone said it, why do you get drive rush at the start for free....whyyyyy...whyyyy
”I’m in the blender” sf players would explode if they were knocked down by HC 😭 (I know for sf6 throw loops are crazy)
I still have nightmares about watching elana tournament play in USF4.
*Combo into i'm healing, deal with it lol.*
getting really sick of being throwlooped man
Nice video, but music too loud
Regarding Marvel 2. They're not far off but only 6 characters is a little hyperbole. It's more like 10 characters. :P
However, only 4 teams is way off. Order matters, assist choices matter. You basically MUST have storm/sent on your team but there's still probably close to 20 ish really strong team compositions.
I so want Elena to be stupid strong in this game just to see people losing their minds over it.
Tundra Storm!
Bison is basically the Nagoriyuki function
LordKnight when you doing another fan hot take episode I’m tryin to spit some knowledge lol
Dude...why do you look so much like Harold Perrineau? I am a fan of the From series and Street Fighter too.
21:43 am I weird for thinking this isn’t even a bad thing? I kinda love how the game is based around one mechanic
Not weird its just preference. My opinion is opposite of yours but I don't say sf6 is bad. For me drive makes labbing feel weaker bc all matches boil down to abusing the unreactable situations. I can force them too and win but it still feels like we're playing largely around drive more than the characters matchups
i loved when Maximilian also got really mad on ppl doing ramdom di on mid diamond rank. like ppl are in same boat.
Maximillion frustrated about sf6? No way is this real?
@@XxFinalFlashXx1 recent stream he struggle with mid diamond player and get mad , in that range ppl randomly jumping and throwing random di to cover whiff move. the lack of footsies is the thing he annoying a lot.
So you're advocating for El Fuerte lol
The thing is, the character balance is good, but I can't help but refer to the game as " Slot Fighter 6." I think the general design choices and game system balancing choices have been .... not enough and terrible. Sf6 parry is probably the worst design decision ever introduced into a fighting game in the history of the genre and I've seen most of the timeline.
It's really close to needing a SF5 like overhaul....the mechanics make everything 50/50. Sure you have the top players getting semi consistent results but even that is all over the place in comparison to previous games.
Nah pros are just mad they can’t get the bag
Punk's and Mena's results are as consistent as anyone in sfv over a year long period.
@@beam5655 exactly, heck this is the only time punk has won a major. The same players are always in top 8, how can it be that way if the game was always 50/50? @corneliusrawness is talking with absolutely zero knowledge
@@charlieharrington9555Punk won a bunch of majors in SFV. But if you mean World Championship level then you're right.
@@beam5655 yeah you’re right about punk my bad
Calamity Trigger Nu-13.
*mic drop
6:59 westerners can complain about lack of representation and format not cataring to the best at the same time
"Interesting" is never a good word to describe a fighting game you're playing. It means there's a level of variability that's unpredictable, typically in a negative way. The only reason they use the term "interesting" is because the variability can sway into a less negative area, but overall the experience is not one you appreciate repeating.
HNK is fucking godlike and entertaining every single time I watch it. Can't say the same for SF6, and that feels weird to me.
we want 32,64 whatever of the best players in the world at cpt. its kl to see the best players in certain regions but the whole 'major' (apart from evo) is out of the window. to only have a 2 Japanese players in a 64 of the best in the world tournament is criminal. no story lines built throughout the year. i could go. i barely watch any of it anymore tbh.
its time, goldlewis for sf6
16:45 that's basically Guile
SF6 is a volatile game and it is what makes it interesting. Modern fighting games are sometimes overly designed and devolve into the same stuff works every time. SF6 throws that out and says nothing you do is truly ever "the best" there are so many different options at any moment and there is typically more than 1 answer to a problem which makes it that you can't predict the answer 100% of the time, thus becoming volatile
Wishing a HC onto the sf6 player base is so foul 😂😂
Wait LK on the Slam would go hard