Wow, I would have previously assumed that "Inverter" was a superior way to run the magnetron power level rather than the duty-cycling of a standard microwave! I am still using a Sharp Carousel from 1994! The styling is still modern looking (it's all black with a very clean touch pad design) and only the VFD display gives any hint to its age. It gets used regularly and (knock on wood) I've not even had to replace the light bulb!
Thanks for the informative video. I had a Panasonic microwave I bought in 1985 and used for 20 years. I then gave it to my dad and he used it for a few years before it stopped working. I bought a new Panasonic over the range microwave a few years ago and it lasted about 3 years with minimal usage. I did NOT purchase another Panasonic to replace it with. Too bad their quality has diminished
Yes, I have to say, 2nd era of Panasonic is junk. They just slapped the Panasonic brand name that once again stoods for quality, just placed in piece of junk. It is same happened to the General Electric, Frigidaire and Whirlpool.
The technology is good, but the implementation is bad. Board is not FR4(flame retardant 4) but phenolic paper instead, a solid sign of cheap. From what I have been told, they actually regulate constant power. Control signals are PWM to inverter, some slow PWM power/current-feedback back to control panel. Variable power control seems like a good idea (without slow pulsing), but I haven't tried to use one of those ovens.
Actually, the 'communication' between boards is probably very basic. If it's just a couple of optocouplers, it's probably just two on/off signals to let the main control board know everything on the inverter board is responding as it should. As opposed to actual serial data, which it might use, but it looks like it doesn't, because that would be an unnecessary engineering expense when simple on/off switches would suffice. So it likely is more hackable than you're thinking. Though I suppose one signal could be a duty cycle command from the main board. It would be interesting to do an autopsy and find out exactly what component failed. My money would be on the main transistors/power switch thingies that actually feed the little transformer. They are obviously doing the most work. Those things are about $3 each, and it looks like there are three of them - the ones attached to the aluminum heat sink. Come to think of it, I did have a Panasonic inverter microwave fail on me, many moons ago, when they were still a relatively new concept. IIRC, it lasted a few years. I tried to fix it, but I wasn't as practiced with electronics as I am now. It's worth noting that the reason they really do things like this is because these days electronics are SO cheap, that the PCB with all its components is actually cheaper than the old fashioned transformer and capacitor. Copper and iron are literally more expensive than a circuit board with 40 components. Especially when you consider the weight savings for shipping microwaves all over the world.
I received a microwave to repair. I was told that it was blowing the fuse. I changed the full wave bridge rectifier in the inverter board and it is working.
We got our first microwave in 1986. kept it till 2012 when I retired it because of a rusty spot inside the oven. other than that it still worked fine. I put it in the box the new one came in and put it in storage as a backup.
This is also becoming very common with compressors in window A/C units and the motors in residential air handlers. By using a brushless 3-phase motor, they can get a 10-20% improvement in efficiency at the expense of pretty much being guaranteed to fail within 2-3 years because the entirety of your power delivery is dependent one a handful of tiny FET or IGBT semiconductors which also rely on a microcontroller with software for switching timing.
I have that same unit. It's about 13 years old, if not a little older. The main problem it has had has burning out interlock switches. Seems like they put a microswitch that had a current rating just barely large enough to survive more than a few years. I have put about 4 switches in it. The last one was a higher current rating switch and has held up well. I think this is very common among most microwaves. Built to burn out after a few years and most people will just buy a new one. The other problem it had was intermittently it started going completely dead. A slam of the door would make it turn back on. Turned out that one of the secondary leads on the transformer on the logic board had a bad solder joint where the terminal was soldered to the coated winding wire. Was able to fix that after some troubleshooting. Long way of saying, mine hasn't been reliable either, and it only still works because I know how to troubleshoot and repair things. It certainly wouldn't have been worth it if I had to pay someone to fix it, even just one time, much less five.
I had one that replaced a USA built Sharp microwave from 2005 that the push button broke. I found the replacement part online for about $7. We decided to buy a Panasonic with the inverter since we didn’t want to wait until the part arrived so I repaired the Sharp and it went with me to work as a spare. The Panasonic only lasted not even a year and a half. The magnetron went bad. The Sharp which funny enough replace a Panasonic inverter is still running till this day at work in the break room.
I love ours. The first one lasted about 10 years then a FET shorted and nuked the board. Being able to dial the power down smoothly is worth the extra cost for me. You can turn down the power % and not boil / splatter your dish. I'll agree 100% on parts availability and exploitation of workers. I really wish more electronics manufacturing was done here.
@@MrUbiquitousTech In reduced power mode a traditional microwave goes to a duty-cycle mode. Turntable and fan run continuously but the magnetron gets cycled between on for a few seconds and off for a few seconds, back and forth. Usually you can hear the hum change, too. The rationale for an inverter microwave is that it can deliver partial power continuously which is gentler on the food.
I had a Panasonic with inverter microwave for years. It was better at defrosting than a regular microwave with on / off magnetron. Also inverter cooks fish better than regular microwave. My first microwave was from 1979 & that sucker lasted 30 years (not a Panasonic). I don't know about the newer microwaves, as they are not being as reliable whether with or without inverter technology. My last 2 microwaves haven't lasted 3 years.
Regular iron & copper microwave oven transformers are disturbingly cheap to manufacture. They're all made in china, out of cheap steel, with low quality copper, and slammed together as fast they possibly can be made. In bulk quantities, you can get brand new standard microwave oven transformers for about $3/unit. Seriously. $3, brand new. There's a reason why the cheapest nastiest microwaves use iron-core transformers and not inverters. These high-power, high-voltage inverters are actually more expensive to manufacture. A 1.2KW ~2400 volt inverter is not exactly an easy thing to design, engineer or manufacture. While that board "looks" cheap, it's rather special. The main benefit of the inverter design is you have continuously adjustable power from 1% to 100%. I'm surprised at the failure though - inverter microwaves have been Panasonic's "thing" for about 30 years now, and they generally rank near or at the top for long-term reliability. Very few manufactures make inverter Microwaves - the vast majority of the inverter microwaves on the market are Panasonics. I agree these are definitely "less repairable" than other microwaves, but replacement inverters are available for that unit. I also don't think its necessarily fair to say the inverter is "unrepairable" either. It's all open, largely through-hole, with a few basic surface mount components. It just requires a different skill set that a lot of us don't have. We have people on UA-cam like Louis Rossman who can quickly identify and repair specific issues with Macbook motherboards, or CuriousMarc who has been repairing all kinds of electronics (including switch mode power supplies, like this inverter) and vintage computer equipment. Truly "unrepairable" electronics are potted in epoxy resin, or use custom chips with no documentation. I don't think that's the case here.
I'm glad you had good service out of it. That does highlight one of the main issues of replacing a single, passive component such as a transformer with an assembly of (literally) hundreds of inter-dependent parts. Any one of which could fail and disable the unit. The life span will be very inconsistent from one example to the next.
Transformer not made with iron and copper, made with steel and aluminium wire. Still however using the microwave I bought on auction years ago, then well used, for around $ 5, and it was made in 1980, and still is working to this day. Original transformer, but had to change out the lamp a few times, they do tend to fail, but never bought a new lamp instead use ones from other scrapped microwaves. Did eventually replace the magnetron as it finally wore out, used another magnetron out of another scrapped microwave in it's place, just had to look for one that had the right fin orientation and most of the mountings to match. Reason for the microwaves to fail was almost always the cabinet rusting out, or the cheap plastic door latches failing, killing the microswitches, but only ever had one magnetron fail stone dead recently, which was yet again replaced from the pile of salvaged ones for my friend's microwave. Only had one transformer fail, but that microwave spent 2 years being used for 5 hours a day to cook, so it really survived, transformer was killer, but another 6 months the cavity would have finished rusting through. I used to buy brand new microwaves for $25 equivalent, but now they are over $40, even though the new ones now are CCA wire, as opposed to the old one using copper wire. Even the internal wiring is now CCA, and the power cord is so much thinner as well.
12 years ago I was remodeling the kitchen and and wanted to upgrade the microwave and went looking for a high quality well made well reviewed microwave and there wasn't one,, much to my disappointment.. I was willing to pay up for a good one but a good one does not and did not exist.. So I still have the top of the line 1985 Tappan I bought new and other than blowing the glass fuse every 8 or 9 years it's never failed...
Nothing is well made anymore. I will use refrigerators as an example. Old refrigerators used to last 30 years sometimes more. We had one that was probably as old as our house 35+ years and was still working. Meanwhile the new $2400 refrigerator we bought lasted only a bit over 10 years and had a compressor failure just recently. Now its going to the scrap yard, What a piece of junk
Planned obsolescence. So disappointing. Neighbor bought two of them, asked me to check it out, same failure on both. 😔 The juice is just not worth the squeeze. Thanks for sharing your experience. 🙏👍
Normally its the igbts or bridge rectifier that fails / short circuits on those. Assuming it blew the inverter fuse. It seems similar to the inverter boards used in bosch/siemens inverter microwaves. A faulty magnetron could also cause the inverter to "seem" faulty.
Governments should mandate all appliances to have a minimum 10 year warranty. My 35 year old washer and dryer are still in good service. I spent $12 to fix the inglis/whirlpool washer once! Afraid to replace them with anything new
I understand the push to make appliances more efficient but inverter microwave technology is crap. They took out the very reliable iron core transformer and replaced it with an inverter that is inferior. Now if that board fails(which happens often) you'll be buying a new microwave. The performance of our new microwave is horrible, over 50% slower than our old microwave. It is a wall mounted oven + microwave combo wired up to 240v. It turns out the microwave part is just a inverter microwave and runs on 120v between L1 and neutral. Not sure how many watts it is less than 1000 for sure. Very disappointing for a 240v appliance.
The transformer core looks so similar to the flyback transformers that were used in CRT TVs and monitors to generate 15 to 30kv for the tube and the 5kv pulse to drive the horizontal deflection coil. But this would be way higher power so may not actually be run in flyback configuration. Either way, in the old TVs it was usually the HV parts of the coil that failed due to insulation breakdown over time (later versions used voltage triplers to keep the coil voltage lower) but you could get schematics and parts to diagnose and repair. Its really terrible that you can get neither today. And I'm sure the real reason for abandoning the simple step up transformer was as you said to reduce cost (and of course to charge more because it is now an inverter!).
Wow its sad they're making thinkmgs unfixable without selling you parts that cost almost as much as the unit itself, it's the same problem in automotive
Yeah, most of the modern "innovations" to appliances are just replacing a good reliable component with complex stuff that will fail in short order. I am still using my 1980s Amana Radarange and the only issue I have ever had with it is the fan motor needing oil. If it ever does fail beyond reasonable repair, I have another one exactly the same i picked up for free a while ago as a backup.
you nailed it- completely!! ;i'll take a simple & much more reliable (heavier) iron core transformer design any day.. Ive had similar experience with this kind of trash--and speaking as a PE & retired EE hardware designer.-- inverter design== lower MTBF.
So the best way to check the unit before you buy is to pick it up and if heavy transformer type if not inverter type. What do you think Davida ??? Thanks for the information fella.
Sad. My father purchased a new Radarange back in '81... He'd let the door slam shut every time which made me wince...but that sucker lasted nearly forty years -- heck the light bulb survived all those door slams for over twenty years. This whole thing reminds me of the stupid temperature control & drive-by-wire setups on newer vehicles. I guess the automakers weren't making enough money off Bowden cables....
They use these inverter designs on roof-top air conditioning systems, now. All they did was take a reliable design and cheap it up so it does not last. This said, I run a 1983 Sharp microwave every day. All I have done to it is replace the large capacitor on the magnetron. Works great every time.
Almost as bad as the GE mw we had. It would turn on when the door was opened. MW feels like strong static charge and is kind of scary. Went into the recycle bin. I didn't want to mess with replacing safety switches or the logic pcb Junk... The new mw purchased with an extended warranty.
I hope this is not the same with inverter window air conditioners... Just bought a HiSense 8,000 btu... It works good and is quiet but doesn't really kick it like a regular unit... Time will tell...
The inverter board is usually not well protected in these units. This is also true of many inverter driven mini-splits; the board sits in the condensing unit which is located outdoors and exposed to the elements. They're a nice enough concept in theory but in reality the inverter boards are usually cheaply built and highly stressed, plus they tend to really push the compressors too hard. If the inverter boards were made out of high quality components that were not being pushed to the limit and if the boards were better protected then they would last a lot longer. But of course, that would go against the manufacturers interest of lining their pockets so unfortunately it just became another way to build units that fail at just the wrong time (or the right time from the manufacturer's perspective).
The communication really is only a puls with modulation signal and a feedback signal. So its pretty simple to emulate. This has some advantages to a transformer microwave, the main one would be that it can modulate the power quite a bit, not just by turning on and off but continuous. There are quite a few people out there that have used these inverters for something else, try looking for microwave inverter hack. But I agree, it does add unnecessary complexity to a otherwise simple device.
I've got no microwave oven, I'm waiting to come across a really lively built ~80's unit. Almost all of my other kitchen appliances are from the 50's besides a few freebies like the instant pot. No teflon coatings, just cast iron, stainless steel, and glass for cookware.. still have my great grandma's skillet from the 40's.
Seems they are complicating everything now days that way. Clothes washers, dehumidifiers, refrigerators that were once simple rely on electronics. Even air conditioners that once were simple to service with some that not only have these inverter electronics but the compressors themselves are some sort of dc setup relying on electronics to make them functional. Isn't no dropping in a simple Tecumseh or Copland hermetic AC replacement if one fails. Heck even the condenser fan motors aren't the simple shaded pole motors in residential refrigerators anymore.
2nd era Panasonic is junk, their inverter microwaves are just garbage. We have a rare Mitsubishi Electric cube microwave, and he's still working until now! This is why I prefer basic microwaves than inverter trash. I didn't know Panasonic which is stoods for quality, was just placed in the piece of junk products. Crap.
I would also say that this applies to all inverter refrigeration including using a VF drive to control the indoor fan on an AC, the DC inverter driven AC compressor and DC inverters used in fridges to drive the compressor and last but not least inverter driven evaporator fans used in commercial walk in coolers & freezers ; all pointless unreliable tech gadgets that are designed for 2 purposes: 1 To get fools to part with as much money as possible and 2 to make damn sure you have to buy a new unit very soon after the warranty is expired. People tell me all the time that they are saving money with inverter refrigeration; that is until they have to replace failed units that are barely 5 years old
"Inverter" labelled on any modern appliance is code for 'unreliable switchmode power supply', waiting for the first spike on the mains to cause a chain reaction of dead semiconductors. Or, an electrolytic capacitor that dries out, causing it to either self destruct or not start up at all. It's one reason I do not recommend the purchase of modern appliances. My 1978 Sharp microwave oven has never failed, with its simple transformer, diode and capacitor power supply.
Good information! Unfortunately, this type of thing seems to be the way of the world nowadays. Some things can be "de-computerized", while other things, such as this microwave, can not be (at least without so much effort as to become not worthwhile).
When Panasonic/Matsushita designed and made every component in-house (Matsushita electronic components and circuitry, Matsushita transformer, Matsushita magnetron, etc), they were the king. The microwave in this video? Built by some junk Chinese OEM with the Panasonic name slapped on. Not a HINT of Matsushita parts anywhere. Only the brand and nothing else. Hence, it is NOT a TRUE Panasonic! It's a FAKE! I'm a huge Matsushita/Panasonic enthusiast (especially their vintage appliances under their National brand) and this name-slapping is sickening to see.
I agree with you. Here in Indonesia, Panasonic/KDK products are just much worse and garbage than USA and overseas. Even Panasonic WKJ air conditioner isn't a 100% Panasonic, instead it was a 0% Panasonic. What a junk.
Thus, Panasonic in 1st era when it was a premium quality brand, they use a components made in Japan, UK, USA, Germany, etc, none of Chinese-made. However during 2nd era of Panasonic from 2017 forward, they using the Chinese-made components. It's clearly insulting Panasonic's original concept whatsoever, from a premium company became a trash.
Got a Panasonic inverter fridge and a Samsung washing machine with a brushless motor here. Never saw the point of the inverter microwaves though. Replacing the transformer with a SMPS doesn’t help reliability as you point out, doesn’t heat food any better, and I doubt it even makes it any cheaper to build.
At least they have "inverter" on the front of the cabinet. Other way to tell if it has an inverter power supply is to pick it up. If it's not heavy there is no HV transformer.
Wow, I would have previously assumed that "Inverter" was a superior way to run the magnetron power level rather than the duty-cycling of a standard microwave!
I am still using a Sharp Carousel from 1994! The styling is still modern looking (it's all black with a very clean touch pad design) and only the VFD display gives any hint to its age. It gets used regularly and (knock on wood) I've not even had to replace the light bulb!
Thanks for the informative video. I had a Panasonic microwave I bought in 1985 and used for 20 years. I then gave it to my dad and he used it for a few years before it stopped working. I bought a new Panasonic over the range microwave a few years ago and it lasted about 3 years with minimal usage. I did NOT purchase another Panasonic to replace it with. Too bad their quality has diminished
Yes, I have to say, 2nd era of Panasonic is junk. They just slapped the Panasonic brand name that once again stoods for quality, just placed in piece of junk. It is same happened to the General Electric, Frigidaire and Whirlpool.
@@PanaikinElectric It stands mostly for every company. We live in throw-away world now
The technology is good, but the implementation is bad. Board is not FR4(flame retardant 4) but phenolic paper instead, a solid sign of cheap.
From what I have been told, they actually regulate constant power.
Control signals are PWM to inverter, some slow PWM power/current-feedback back to control panel.
Variable power control seems like a good idea (without slow pulsing), but I haven't tried to use one of those ovens.
Actually, the 'communication' between boards is probably very basic. If it's just a couple of optocouplers, it's probably just two on/off signals to let the main control board know everything on the inverter board is responding as it should. As opposed to actual serial data, which it might use, but it looks like it doesn't, because that would be an unnecessary engineering expense when simple on/off switches would suffice. So it likely is more hackable than you're thinking. Though I suppose one signal could be a duty cycle command from the main board.
It would be interesting to do an autopsy and find out exactly what component failed. My money would be on the main transistors/power switch thingies that actually feed the little transformer. They are obviously doing the most work. Those things are about $3 each, and it looks like there are three of them - the ones attached to the aluminum heat sink.
Come to think of it, I did have a Panasonic inverter microwave fail on me, many moons ago, when they were still a relatively new concept. IIRC, it lasted a few years. I tried to fix it, but I wasn't as practiced with electronics as I am now.
It's worth noting that the reason they really do things like this is because these days electronics are SO cheap, that the PCB with all its components is actually cheaper than the old fashioned transformer and capacitor. Copper and iron are literally more expensive than a circuit board with 40 components. Especially when you consider the weight savings for shipping microwaves all over the world.
I received a microwave to repair. I was told that it was blowing the fuse. I changed the full wave bridge rectifier in the inverter board and it is working.
We got our first microwave in 1986. kept it till 2012 when I retired it because of a rusty spot inside the oven. other than that it still worked fine. I put it in the box the new one came in and put it in storage as a backup.
We just tossed our Panasonic in the garbage after 9 years. It was working fine, but it was getting rusty inside and looking a little rough.
This is also becoming very common with compressors in window A/C units and the motors in residential air handlers. By using a brushless 3-phase motor, they can get a 10-20% improvement in efficiency at the expense of pretty much being guaranteed to fail within 2-3 years because the entirety of your power delivery is dependent one a handful of tiny FET or IGBT semiconductors which also rely on a microcontroller with software for switching timing.
I have that same unit. It's about 13 years old, if not a little older. The main problem it has had has burning out interlock switches. Seems like they put a microswitch that had a current rating just barely large enough to survive more than a few years. I have put about 4 switches in it. The last one was a higher current rating switch and has held up well. I think this is very common among most microwaves. Built to burn out after a few years and most people will just buy a new one. The other problem it had was intermittently it started going completely dead. A slam of the door would make it turn back on. Turned out that one of the secondary leads on the transformer on the logic board had a bad solder joint where the terminal was soldered to the coated winding wire. Was able to fix that after some troubleshooting.
Long way of saying, mine hasn't been reliable either, and it only still works because I know how to troubleshoot and repair things. It certainly wouldn't have been worth it if I had to pay someone to fix it, even just one time, much less five.
Our LG inverter Microwave lasted 13 months, inverter went out. They wanted $98 plus shipping for the replacement part. Will not buy LG again .
I had one that replaced a USA built Sharp microwave from 2005 that the push button broke. I found the replacement part online for about $7. We decided to buy a Panasonic with the inverter since we didn’t want to wait until the part arrived so I repaired the Sharp and it went with me to work as a spare. The Panasonic only lasted not even a year and a half. The magnetron went bad. The Sharp which funny enough replace a Panasonic inverter is still running till this day at work in the break room.
I love ours. The first one lasted about 10 years then a FET shorted and nuked the board. Being able to dial the power down smoothly is worth the extra cost for me. You can turn down the power % and not boil / splatter your dish.
I'll agree 100% on parts availability and exploitation of workers. I really wish more electronics manufacturing was done here.
You can cut the power by percentages in a traditional microwave, doesn't need an inverter to do that.
@@MrUbiquitousTech In reduced power mode a traditional microwave goes to a duty-cycle mode. Turntable and fan run continuously but the magnetron gets cycled between on for a few seconds and off for a few seconds, back and forth. Usually you can hear the hum change, too. The rationale for an inverter microwave is that it can deliver partial power continuously which is gentler on the food.
I had a Panasonic with inverter microwave for years. It was better at defrosting than a regular microwave with on / off magnetron. Also inverter cooks fish better than regular microwave. My first microwave was from 1979 & that sucker lasted 30 years (not a Panasonic). I don't know about the newer microwaves, as they are not being as reliable whether with or without inverter technology. My last 2 microwaves haven't lasted 3 years.
Regular iron & copper microwave oven transformers are disturbingly cheap to manufacture. They're all made in china, out of cheap steel, with low quality copper, and slammed together as fast they possibly can be made. In bulk quantities, you can get brand new standard microwave oven transformers for about $3/unit. Seriously. $3, brand new. There's a reason why the cheapest nastiest microwaves use iron-core transformers and not inverters.
These high-power, high-voltage inverters are actually more expensive to manufacture. A 1.2KW ~2400 volt inverter is not exactly an easy thing to design, engineer or manufacture. While that board "looks" cheap, it's rather special. The main benefit of the inverter design is you have continuously adjustable power from 1% to 100%.
I'm surprised at the failure though - inverter microwaves have been Panasonic's "thing" for about 30 years now, and they generally rank near or at the top for long-term reliability. Very few manufactures make inverter Microwaves - the vast majority of the inverter microwaves on the market are Panasonics. I agree these are definitely "less repairable" than other microwaves, but replacement inverters are available for that unit.
I also don't think its necessarily fair to say the inverter is "unrepairable" either. It's all open, largely through-hole, with a few basic surface mount components. It just requires a different skill set that a lot of us don't have. We have people on UA-cam like Louis Rossman who can quickly identify and repair specific issues with Macbook motherboards, or CuriousMarc who has been repairing all kinds of electronics (including switch mode power supplies, like this inverter) and vintage computer equipment.
Truly "unrepairable" electronics are potted in epoxy resin, or use custom chips with no documentation. I don't think that's the case here.
The one we had never gave us any trouble, but that was nearly twenty years ago.
I'm glad you had good service out of it. That does highlight one of the main issues of replacing a single, passive component such as a transformer with an assembly of (literally) hundreds of inter-dependent parts. Any one of which could fail and disable the unit. The life span will be very inconsistent from one example to the next.
Yeah I'll be choosing the one that I know I can repair easily.
Engineered to fail!
you are right ....nowadays as competition arise they start using cheaper ways to get higher sales
I find the more tech added the more problems. Well done video. Thank you!
Transformer not made with iron and copper, made with steel and aluminium wire. Still however using the microwave I bought on auction years ago, then well used, for around $ 5, and it was made in 1980, and still is working to this day. Original transformer, but had to change out the lamp a few times, they do tend to fail, but never bought a new lamp instead use ones from other scrapped microwaves. Did eventually replace the magnetron as it finally wore out, used another magnetron out of another scrapped microwave in it's place, just had to look for one that had the right fin orientation and most of the mountings to match.
Reason for the microwaves to fail was almost always the cabinet rusting out, or the cheap plastic door latches failing, killing the microswitches, but only ever had one magnetron fail stone dead recently, which was yet again replaced from the pile of salvaged ones for my friend's microwave. Only had one transformer fail, but that microwave spent 2 years being used for 5 hours a day to cook, so it really survived, transformer was killer, but another 6 months the cavity would have finished rusting through. I used to buy brand new microwaves for $25 equivalent, but now they are over $40, even though the new ones now are CCA wire, as opposed to the old one using copper wire. Even the internal wiring is now CCA, and the power cord is so much thinner as well.
12 years ago I was remodeling the kitchen and and wanted to upgrade the microwave and went looking for a high quality well made well reviewed microwave and there wasn't one,, much to my disappointment..
I was willing to pay up for a good one but a good one does not and did not exist..
So I still have the top of the line 1985 Tappan I bought new and other than blowing the glass fuse every 8 or 9 years it's never failed...
Nothing is well made anymore. I will use refrigerators as an example. Old refrigerators used to last 30 years sometimes more. We had one that was probably as old as our house 35+ years and was still working. Meanwhile the new $2400 refrigerator we bought lasted only a bit over 10 years and had a compressor failure just recently. Now its going to the scrap yard, What a piece of junk
@@HighVoltageMadness what about enery efficiency
The irony. It's become a throw-away world at a time when conservation of resources is the hottest of topics.
Planned obsolescence. So disappointing. Neighbor bought two of them, asked me to check it out, same failure on both. 😔 The juice is just not worth the squeeze. Thanks for sharing your experience.
🙏👍
Normally its the igbts or bridge rectifier that fails / short circuits on those. Assuming it blew the inverter fuse. It seems similar to the inverter boards used in bosch/siemens inverter microwaves. A faulty magnetron could also cause the inverter to "seem" faulty.
Bad mag kills inverters
Governments should mandate all appliances to have a minimum 10 year warranty. My 35 year old washer and dryer are still in good service. I spent $12 to fix the inglis/whirlpool washer once! Afraid to replace them with anything new
I understand the push to make appliances more efficient but inverter microwave technology is crap. They took out the very reliable iron core transformer and replaced it with an inverter that is inferior. Now if that board fails(which happens often) you'll be buying a new microwave. The performance of our new microwave is horrible, over 50% slower than our old microwave. It is a wall mounted oven + microwave combo wired up to 240v. It turns out the microwave part is just a inverter microwave and runs on 120v between L1 and neutral. Not sure how many watts it is less than 1000 for sure. Very disappointing for a 240v appliance.
Thanks David! I've been looking at a panny inverter at Sams. Old manky GE still working.
I fixed old microwaves for our own use 30 years ago. Magnatron or transformer. Parts were cheaper then buying a new one. No more ;(
The transformer core looks so similar to the flyback transformers that were used in CRT TVs and monitors to generate 15 to 30kv for the tube and the 5kv pulse to drive the horizontal deflection coil. But this would be way higher power so may not actually be run in flyback configuration. Either way, in the old TVs it was usually the HV parts of the coil that failed due to insulation breakdown over time (later versions used voltage triplers to keep the coil voltage lower) but you could get schematics and parts to diagnose and repair. Its really terrible that you can get neither today. And I'm sure the real reason for abandoning the simple step up transformer was as you said to reduce cost (and of course to charge more because it is now an inverter!).
No it's to actually have different power levels so 30% power would be 30% power. It wouldn't power cycle.
Wow its sad they're making thinkmgs unfixable without selling you parts that cost almost as much as the unit itself, it's the same problem in automotive
Yeah, most of the modern "innovations" to appliances are just replacing a good reliable component with complex stuff that will fail in short order. I am still using my 1980s Amana Radarange and the only issue I have ever had with it is the fan motor needing oil. If it ever does fail beyond reasonable repair, I have another one exactly the same i picked up for free a while ago as a backup.
you nailed it- completely!! ;i'll take a simple & much more reliable (heavier) iron core transformer design any day.. Ive had similar experience with this kind of trash--and speaking as a PE & retired EE hardware designer.-- inverter design== lower MTBF.
Thank you. Totally agreed and as you said it's statistically provable, too.
So the best way to check the unit before you buy is to pick it up and if heavy transformer type if not inverter type. What do you think Davida ??? Thanks for the information fella.
Thank you for your video.I saw your comment on Electronoobs' channel. Circuitboard microwaves are complicated, but i'm new at electronics.
Glad it was helpful!
Sad. My father purchased a new Radarange back in '81... He'd let the door slam shut every time which made me wince...but that sucker lasted nearly forty years -- heck the light bulb survived all those door slams for over twenty years. This whole thing reminds me of the stupid temperature control & drive-by-wire setups on newer vehicles. I guess the automakers weren't making enough money off Bowden cables....
They use these inverter designs on roof-top air conditioning systems, now. All they did was take a reliable design and cheap it up so it does not last.
This said, I run a 1983 Sharp microwave every day. All I have done to it is replace the large capacitor on the magnetron. Works great every time.
Almost as bad as the GE mw we had. It would turn on when the door was opened. MW feels like strong static charge and is kind of scary. Went into the recycle bin. I didn't want to mess with replacing safety switches or the logic pcb Junk... The new mw purchased with an extended warranty.
GE is made by Gantz, the same as the $39.99 specials at Walmart.
on our GE the paint started peeling off of the interior after about 13 months.
That is terrifying, did you get burned by the microwave radiation when it stayed on? What do you mean by "strong static charge" ? Was shocking you?
I hope this is not the same with inverter window air conditioners... Just bought a HiSense 8,000 btu... It works good and is quiet but doesn't really kick it like a regular unit... Time will tell...
Just replace it a vintage unit. Either of Emerson Quiet Kool, Westinghouse, GM Frigidaire or Fedders and GE.
The inverter board is usually not well protected in these units. This is also true of many inverter driven mini-splits; the board sits in the condensing unit which is located outdoors and exposed to the elements. They're a nice enough concept in theory but in reality the inverter boards are usually cheaply built and highly stressed, plus they tend to really push the compressors too hard. If the inverter boards were made out of high quality components that were not being pushed to the limit and if the boards were better protected then they would last a lot longer. But of course, that would go against the manufacturers interest of lining their pockets so unfortunately it just became another way to build units that fail at just the wrong time (or the right time from the manufacturer's perspective).
The communication really is only a puls with modulation signal and a feedback signal.
So its pretty simple to emulate.
This has some advantages to a transformer microwave, the main one would be that it can modulate the power quite a bit, not just by turning on and off but continuous.
There are quite a few people out there that have used these inverters for something else, try looking for microwave inverter hack.
But I agree, it does add unnecessary complexity to a otherwise simple device.
I've got no microwave oven, I'm waiting to come across a really lively built ~80's unit. Almost all of my other kitchen appliances are from the 50's besides a few freebies like the instant pot. No teflon coatings, just cast iron, stainless steel, and glass for cookware.. still have my great grandma's skillet from the 40's.
My POS Panasonic Inverter microwave took a fatal shit less than a year old
Seems they are complicating everything now days that way. Clothes washers, dehumidifiers, refrigerators that were once simple rely on electronics. Even air conditioners that once were simple to service with some that not only have these inverter electronics but the compressors themselves are some sort of dc setup relying on electronics to make them functional. Isn't no dropping in a simple Tecumseh or Copland hermetic AC replacement if one fails. Heck even the condenser fan motors aren't the simple shaded pole motors in residential refrigerators anymore.
2nd era Panasonic is junk, their inverter microwaves are just garbage. We have a rare Mitsubishi Electric cube microwave, and he's still working until now!
This is why I prefer basic microwaves than inverter trash.
I didn't know Panasonic which is stoods for quality, was just placed in the piece of junk products. Crap.
I've noticed that anything [variable] is not reliable :(.
I would also say that this applies to all inverter refrigeration including using a VF drive to control the indoor fan on an AC, the DC inverter driven AC compressor and DC inverters used in fridges to drive the compressor and last but not least inverter driven evaporator fans used in commercial walk in coolers & freezers ; all pointless unreliable tech gadgets that are designed for 2 purposes: 1 To get fools to part with as much money as possible and 2 to make damn sure you have to buy a new unit very soon after the warranty is expired.
People tell me all the time that they are saving money with inverter refrigeration; that is until they have to replace failed units that are barely 5 years old
I’ve went through a few magnetrons with my microwave. Seems they would fail after two years or so.
"Inverter" labelled on any modern appliance is code for 'unreliable switchmode power supply', waiting for the first spike on the mains to cause a chain reaction of dead semiconductors. Or, an electrolytic capacitor that dries out, causing it to either self destruct or not start up at all. It's one reason I do not recommend the purchase of modern appliances. My 1978 Sharp microwave oven has never failed, with its simple transformer, diode and capacitor power supply.
My microwave is over 30 years old…. My hair stands up when it’s on but it still works! 😂👍
Good information!
Unfortunately, this type of thing seems to be the way of the world nowadays.
Some things can be "de-computerized", while other things, such as this microwave, can not be (at least without so much effort as to become not worthwhile).
I know,... Isn't it disgusting that they make these inferior appliances these days just for the company to get rich? Grose,
When Panasonic/Matsushita designed and made every component in-house (Matsushita electronic components and circuitry, Matsushita transformer, Matsushita magnetron, etc), they were the king. The microwave in this video? Built by some junk Chinese OEM with the Panasonic name slapped on. Not a HINT of Matsushita parts anywhere. Only the brand and nothing else. Hence, it is NOT a TRUE Panasonic! It's a FAKE!
I'm a huge Matsushita/Panasonic enthusiast (especially their vintage appliances under their National brand) and this name-slapping is sickening to see.
I agree with you. Here in Indonesia, Panasonic/KDK products are just much worse and garbage than USA and overseas. Even Panasonic WKJ air conditioner isn't a 100% Panasonic, instead it was a 0% Panasonic. What a junk.
Thus, Panasonic in 1st era when it was a premium quality brand, they use a components made in Japan, UK, USA, Germany, etc, none of Chinese-made. However during 2nd era of Panasonic from 2017 forward, they using the Chinese-made components. It's clearly insulting Panasonic's original concept whatsoever, from a premium company became a trash.
@@PanaikinElectric Who made the WKJ aircons?
Thanks for the video. I was going to buy an inverter microwave. 😅 see
Amana menumaster is the way to go
Got a Panasonic inverter fridge and a Samsung washing machine with a brushless motor here. Never saw the point of the inverter microwaves though. Replacing the transformer with a SMPS doesn’t help reliability as you point out, doesn’t heat food any better, and I doubt it even makes it any cheaper to build.
No such thing as a good brand nowadays
Just don't make them like they used to I have a Window unit From 1958 Still runs like me
At least they have "inverter" on the front of the cabinet. Other way to tell if it has an inverter power supply is to pick it up. If it's not heavy there is no HV transformer.
Things aren’t build like they used to.
PROGRESS!
Good job exposing junk inverter microware, other can you post all brands in describtion that use this?
Thanks. Unfortunately, I don't know which brands use it.
They made this so that we cannot do DIY and spend more with parts so we will just end up just buying a new one. Business propaganda! 😅
Jeff Grey?!?
Who is that?
Inverter microwaves make the product cheaper to ship to the retailers because DC magnetrons are smaller and lighter in weight than AC magnetrons.